Tim Duncan is Overrated......

[Tacker]

The only reason he has won those rings was because he got MASSIVE support. He had one of the greatest Centers in history by his side in 99 and 03, Had 3 allstars in 05 and and in 07.

Championship wise (media wise) Duncan would be considered one of the top 10 of all time only because of his rings and he was the best player on the team when they won those rings. Obviously no credit is given to teammates.

Statistical wise Tim Duncan is nothing but a Soft Kevin Garnet TYpe....

Discuss.....

[Ditty]

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fail-owned-chandelier-fail.jpg?w=430&h=487

[Ditty]

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fail-owned-car-park-fail.jpg?w=500&h=266

[Ditty]

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fail-owned-sad-ball.jpg?w=500&h=375

[Ditty]

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fail-owned-marching-band.jpg?w=479&h=202

[JamStone]

Tim Duncan is an overrated hand clapper.

[Tacker]

Statistical wise KG > Duncan yet I dont see KG get the praise Duncan gets.

[Sense]

Wow... you need to be pinked.

[Sense]

Oh and...

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fail-owned-van-window-fail.jpg

[Strike]

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/mustardman_big.jpg

[baseline bum]

Fuck Jordan. He was a quitter.

[nevitt_&_smrek]

Statistical wise KG > Duncan yet I dont see KG get the praise Duncan gets.

Statistics are important, but winning is most important. Duncan's winning pct and titles prove his greatness. Duncan is clearly in the top 10 and has potential to finish top 5.

Garnett isn't in that league. In fact, his legacy should be multiple first round losses and the inability to come through under pressure. Look how many times he missed FTs and shots in close games, even in his title year. Even PJ Brown is more clutch. Boston fans know how A-Rod Garnett becomes when it counts.

[Culburn369]

But, that 3 over a charging Daddy last Spring was choice.

[duncan228]

Overrate this.

* 2-time NBA Most Valuable Player: 2002, 2003
* 4-time NBA Champion: 1999, 2003, 2005, 2007
* 3-time NBA Finals MVP: 1999, 2003, 2005
* IBM Player Award: 2002
* The Sporting News MVP Award: 2002, 2003
* In 2003, became only the 3rd player to win NBA MVP, IBM, and TSN Awards in the same season
* 11-time NBA All-Star: 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
* 10-time starter (2000–2009)
* NBA All-Star Game Co-MVP: 2000
* 12-time All-NBA:
* First Team: 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007
* Second Team: 2006, 2008, 2009
* 12-time All-Defensive:
* First Team: 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008
* Second Team: 1998, 2004, 2006, 2009
* NBA All-Rookie First Team: 1998
* NBA Rookie of the Year: 1998
* NBA regular-season leader, field goals made: 2002 (764)
* NBA regular-season leader, total rebounds: 2002 (1,042)
* One of only four players to receive All-NBA First Team honors in each of his first 8 seasons (1998-2005), along with Hall of Famers Bob Pettit (10 seasons), Larry Bird (9 seasons), and Oscar Robertson (9 seasons).
* Only player in NBA history to receive All-NBA and All-Defensive honors in his first 12 seasons (1998-2009).
* NBA playoff records:
* Most consecutive field goals made, none missed: 12 (May 17, 2006 vs. the Dallas Mavericks; tied with Larry McNeill)
* NBA Finals records:
* Most blocks averaged per game, series: 5.3 (2003 NBA Finals)
* ACC Male Athlete of the Year: 1997
* John R. Wooden Award: 1997
* Naismith College Player of the Year: 1997
* USBWA College Player of the Year (1997)
* ACC Player of the Year (1996, 1997)
* Named to the ACC 50th Anniversary Men's Basketball Team: 2002
* On February 18 2006, Named one of the Next 10 Greatest Players by TNT broadcasting crew
* On August 16 2007, named starting PF on Sports Illustrated's All-Time NBA team
* On May 4 2007, named by the Association for Professional Basketball Research as one of "100 Greatest Professional Basketball Players of The 20th Century", the youngest player on that list


Edit: My bad, I grabbed a copy that wasn't updated. Dwight Howard just broke this record with 9 blocks in game 4.

* Most blocks, one game: 8 (decisive Game 6 of the 2003 NBA Finals; also had 21 points, 20 rebounds, and 10 assists in the same game)

[Tacker]

Overrate this.

* 2-time NBA Most Valuable Player: 2002, 2003
-Without his allstar teammates they wouldn't have got a good enough record for Duncan to be in the MVP Talks

* 4-time NBA Champion: 1999, 2003, 2005, 2007
Again without his Allstar teammates he wouldnt have won those titles

* 3-time NBA Finals MVP: 1999, 2003, 2005
Refer to the previous coment

* IBM Player Award: 2002
Fail Award

* The Sporting News MVP Award: 2002, 2003
Never heard of it

* 11-time NBA All-Star: 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
Kevin Garnett has 12

* 10-time starter (2000–2009)
Kevin Garnett has 12

* NBA All-Star Game Co-MVP: 2000
Kevin Garnett was solo MVP in 2003

SHALL I CONTINUE???

* 12-time All-NBA:

* First Team: 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007
* Second Team: 2006, 2008, 2009
* 12-time All-Defensive:
* First Team: 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008
* Second Team: 1998, 2004, 2006, 2009
* NBA All-Rookie First Team: 1998
* NBA Rookie of the Year: 1998
* NBA regular-season leader, field goals made: 2002 (764)
* NBA regular-season leader, total rebounds: 2002 (1,042)
* One of only four players to receive All-NBA First Team honors in each of his first 8 seasons (1998-2005), along with Hall of Famers Bob Pettit (10 seasons), Larry Bird (9 seasons), and Oscar Robertson (9 seasons).
* Only player in NBA history to receive All-NBA and All-Defensive honors in his first 12 seasons (1998-2009).
* NBA playoff records:
* Most consecutive field goals made, none missed: 12 (May 17, 2006 vs. the Dallas Mavericks; tied with Larry McNeill)
* NBA Finals records:
* Most blocks averaged per game, series: 5.3 (2003 NBA Finals)
* Most blocks, one game: 8 (decisive Game 6 of the 2003 NBA Finals; also had 21 points, 20 rebounds, and 10 assists in the same game)
* ACC Male Athlete of the Year: 1997
* John R. Wooden Award: 1997
* Naismith College Player of the Year: 1997
* USBWA College Player of the Year (1997)
* ACC Player of the Year (1996, 1997)
* Named to the ACC 50th Anniversary Men's Basketball Team: 2002
* On February 18 2006, Named one of the Next 10 Greatest Players by TNT broadcasting crew
* On August 16 2007, named starting PF on Sports Illustrated's All-Time NBA team
* On May 4 2007, named by the Association for Professional Basketball Research as one of "100 Greatest Professional Basketball Players of The 20th Century", the youngest player on that list

[Culburn369]

duncan228, they're just trying to get yer goat. Duncan is the goodsPERIOD

[Killakobe81]

Obviously this guy is trying to get a rise because of some of teh ant-kobe stuff on here and at other sites.
Again Duncan is > Shaq not as great as Hakeem or Kareem at their best ...but because of consistency he has to be at least = Hakeem, hakeem did it better but Duncan was great for longer ...Kareem as well

[Tacker]

Statistics are important, but winning is most important. Duncan's winning pct and titles prove his greatness. Duncan is clearly in the top 10 and has potential to finish top 5.

Garnett isn't in that league. In fact, his legacy should be multiple first round losses and the inability to come through under pressure. Look how many times he missed FTs and shots in close games, even in his title year. Even PJ Brown is more clutch. Boston fans know how A-Rod Garnett becomes when it counts.

Yes I agree Media wise (ring wise) TD > KG only because TD had a better supporting cast. Look at 08 when KG got his cast, he got a ring. KG is better statistically than TD

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Duncan shits all over KG in terms of leadership.

[Amaso]

Obviously this guy is trying to get a rise because of some of teh ant-kobe stuff on here and at other sites.
Again Duncan is > Shaq not as great as Hakeem or Kareem at their best ...but because of consistency he has to be at least = Hakeem, hakeem did it better but Duncan was great for longer ...Kareem as well

Hakeem was great from 1985-1997. It's not his fault his teams sucked ass from 1988-1993. Supposedly this was his down period even though he averaged something like 25/14/4/4 during this time period, and even posted 37 points/18 rebounds in a playoff series.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Yes I agree Media wise (ring wise) TD > KG only because TD had a better supporting cast. Look at 08 when KG got his cast, he got a ring. KG is better statistically than TD

TD has more career ppg, rebounds per game, and a better fg%


fail.

[sonic21]

i think tacker wants to piss off 228 coz of this:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123212 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123212)

[nevitt_&_smrek]

Yes I agree Media wise (ring wise) TD > KG only because TD had a better supporting cast. Look at 08 when KG got his cast, he got a ring. KG is better statistically than TD

KG is not better in areas that don't show in the statistics, mainly presence in the paint. He isn't a classic back to the basket post-up guy but more of a jump shooter. KG is a solid defender on the perimeter, a good guy to use for traps, but interior defense is where it counts most. Duncan is superior to KG in this regard.

As far as supporting cast is concerned, whose fault was that? I think his enormous contract was a hinderance, no? And he wasn't the easiest guy to get along with.

Yes he did get his ring. 10 losses in the playoffs; nearly bounced by the Cavs ESF. Pierce carried the way in the 7th game, PJ Brown hit the clutch shots.

[duncan228]

duncan228, they're just trying to get yer goat. Duncan is the goodsPERIOD

Yeah, I know. I just happened to have Duncan's resume handy. It speaks for him. Tacker's opinion means nothing to me.

[gaKNOW!blee]

I would love to see KG take a team with no all stars and win MVP, win the finals, and win the Finals MVP. Like Tim did in 2003.

KG couldn't win shit until he got two future (borderline) hall of famers by his side. And Peirce had to carry his choking ass on his back.

[Tacker]

Yeah, I know. I just happened to have Duncan's resume handy. It speaks for him. Tacker's opinion means nothing to me.

Your posts dont mean nothing to me. Is that all you do here on this forum post articles??? Wow I can do that too.

[Tacker]

I would love to see KG take a team with no all stars and win MVP, win the finals, and win the Finals MVP. Like Tim did in 2003.

Um Duncan had Parker Robinson in 03 who were very good players

KG got MVP in 04 with no supporting cast making it to the WCF

[gaKNOW!blee]

Um Duncan had Parker Robinson in 03 who were very good players

KG got MVP in 04 with no supporting cast making it to the WCF

It was the last year of Robinsons career and TP was still very raw. Wow the WCF?? that aint shit to Duncan, what about all those other years KG couldnt even get out of the first round.

[spursncowboys]

Yes I agree Media wise (ring wise) TD > KG only because TD had a better supporting cast. Look at 08 when KG got his cast, he got a ring. KG is better statistically than TD
KG was the cast last year.
"That's retarded"
-T. Duncan

[Tacker]

It was the last year of Robinsons career and TP was still very raw. Wow the WCF?? that aint shit to Duncan, what about all those other years KG couldnt even get out of the first round.

Give KG a Parker Ginobili type Caliaber and He would have done much more than Duncan.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Give KG a Parker Ginobili type Caliaber and He would have done much more than Duncan.

Bull fucking shit. KG isnt a leader, yeah hes important but he couldnt even win Finals MVP and his team still shouldve made it to the ECF without him.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

i think tacker wants to piss off 228 coz of this:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123212 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123212)

:lmao at taking down the videos.

[Tacker]

Bull fucking shit. KG isnt a leader, yeah hes important but he couldnt even win Finals MVP and his team still shouldve made it to the ECF without him.

Duncan failed to make it past the first round without Ginobili.........

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Your posts dont mean nothing to me.

She appreciates your care.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Duncan failed to make it past the first round without Ginobili.........

Spurs also failed to get out of the first round without Duncan in 01...

[mavs>spurs2]

If I was even just 6'7, I could beat Tim Duncan 1 on 1. Not under pussy NBA touch foul rules, but like your typical streetball game at the park.

[Tacker]

Spurs also failed to get out of the first round without Duncan in 01...

But if Duncan was one of the GOAT shouldnt he be able to get out of the first round? Is Ginobili that good?? Is Duncan now being exposed?

[Killakobe81]

Hakeem was great from 1985-1997. It's not his fault his teams sucked ass from 1988-1993. Supposedly this was his down period even though he averaged something like 25/14/4/4 during this time period, and even posted 37 points/18 rebounds in a playoff series.

OH i agree Hakeem 2nd greatest center I have seen ...But duncan has been great in playoffs and Finals more often ...but since most people lie and say he is a PF then he is the best I have seen at that spot but if Hakeem could of played PF alongside Robinson (if sampson stayedf healthy) he would of had just as many rings as Duncan

[sonic21]

But if Duncan was one of the GOAT shouldnt he be able to get out of the first round? Is Ginobili that good?? Is Duncan now being exposed?

or i don't know, maybe he was hurt

[nevitt_&_smrek]

Bull fucking shit. KG isnt a leader, yeah hes important but he couldnt even win Finals MVP and his team still shouldve made it to the ECF without him.

Yes, Boston's record w/o KG over the past two seasons is quite telling. The sample size is large enough, too.

[Frenzy]

did garnet come out in one bay watch episode?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

But if Duncan was one of the GOAT shouldnt he be able to get out of the first round? Is Ginobili that good?? Is Duncan now being exposed?

An aging Duncan minus Ginobili versus healthy Dallas went the way it should. Even I would be surprised if the Spurs made it out. It takes much more than one player, if you haven't noticed. Your beloved Jordan also had a stacked team during his run. If Pippen fell to injury, no shit it would have looked a lot different.

The Celtics made it to the end of the ECF without KG. Is he getting exposed?

[Tacker]

or i don't know, maybe he was hurt

Duncan in the 09 Playoffs 19.8ppg 8.0rbpg 1.2bpg

He wasn not injured.......... But Manu was and the reason Spurs didnt make it past the 1st round....

[mavs>spurs2]

For once I agree with the retard, Tim Duncan is shitty

[sonic21]

Duncan in the 09 Playoffs 19.8ppg 8.0rbpg 1.2bpg

He wasn not injured.......... But Manu was and the reason Spurs didnt make it past the 1st round....

try watching the games instead of looking at stats.

[Tacker]

An aging Duncan minus Ginobili versus healthy Dallas went the way it should. Even I would be surprised if the Spurs made it out. It takes much more than one player, if you haven't noticed. Your beloved Jordan also had a stacked team during his run. If Pippen fell to injury, no shit it would have looked a lot different.

The Celtics made it to the end of the ECF without KG. Is he getting exposed?

But the same aging Duncan made it to the WCF in 08 but the Same aging Duncan without Ginobili couldnt get past the 1st round in 09. Doesnt that tell you something about Ginobili?

[Tacker]

For once I agree with the retard, Tim Duncan is shitty

By agreeing with a retard, that makes you one too dumbass.

[justinandimcool]

Russell had Cousy, Jones, Heinsohn, and Havlicek

Wilt had West, Goodrich, and Greer

Kareem and Magic had each other, not to mention Worthy, Rambis, Cooper, McAdoo, and whoever else was on that amazing Showtime team

Bird had Parish and McHale

Hakeem had Drexler

Shaq had Kobe and Wade

Garnett had Pierce and Allen





So basically every NBA Champion/MVP in history MUST be overrated, because they all had great teammates. Great point OP.

[Tacker]

Russell had Cousy, Jones, Heinsohn, and Havlicek

Wilt had West, Goodrich, and Greer

Kareem and Magic had each other, not to mention Worthy, Rambis, Cooper, McAdoo, and whoever else was on that amazing Showtime team

Bird had Parish and McHale

Hakeem had Drexler

Shaq had Kobe and Wade

Garnett had Pierce and Allen





So basically every NBA Champion/MVP in history MUST be overrated, because they all had great teammates. Great point OP.

Again thats not my argument........ People judge GOATs based on the number of titles and rings they have. If we look at the statistics TD is no where near the top compared to other players.....

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

But the same aging Duncan made it to the WCF in 08 but the Same aging Duncan without Ginobili couldnt get past the 1st round. Doesnt that tell you something about Ginobili?

Um, yeah, that he's a good player.
When a team loses their 2nd best player, they shouldn't be expected to go as far.

[PBEEZY]

i think tacker wants to piss off 228 coz of this:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123212 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123212)
:lmao

[nevitt_&_smrek]

Duncan in the 09 Playoffs 19.8ppg 8.0rbpg 1.2bpg

He wasn not injured.......... But Manu was and the reason Spurs didnt make it past the 1st round....


Dallas just happens matchup well against San Antonio, healthy Ginobili or not. Had the Spurs drawn the Hornets, Jazz, the inexperienced Blazers team, or maybe the Nuggets, they probably advance.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

By agreeing with a retard, that makes you one too dumbass.

Way to out the only person on your side, dumbass.

[Tacker]

Um, yeah, that he's a good player.
When a team loses their 2nd best player, they shouldn't be expected to go as far.

He should be expected to make it at least to the 2nd round if he is clearly a top 5 player of all time

Pippen did it in 94 without MJ
Magic Johnson did it in 91 without Kareem and actually made it to the Finals....

[Tacker]

Way to out the only person on your side, dumbass.

loooool You expect me to side with someone who called me a retard. You are the only one who might but not me asshat.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

He should be expected to make it at least to the 2nd round if he is clearly a top 5 player of all time

Pippen did it in 94 without MJ
Magic Johnson did it in 91 without Kareem and actually made it to the Finals....

Pippen's team was still stacked, and they didn't face matchup problems like the Spurs did versus Dallas.
And Magic is the absolute shit.

[BlackBellamy]

If we look at the statistics TD is no where near the top compared to other players.....

Dear Mr. Joey Whelan, you seem forget what type of game Tim plays when making comparisons to other current all-stars. Fundamental ball (passing/ setting screens/ understanding the open man/ understanding that breaking your arm off in the rim is still only worth two points/ ect..) doesn't allow you to pad your stats (and in a flash notable way) as much as (in particular Wolves era) K.G.'s me first (low B-ball I.Q.) mentality. Tim makes those (admittedly very talented roll-players) around him into the dominant forces they are. And he has won more than most in the modern era as a result. How is the better player even a question for you? The results are in, Duncan= legend to the game best PF ever. How can you possibly claim media bias for that general understanding? It's just a common understanding. Even other legends begrudgingly admit it. Now repeat after me..."I'm sorry spurs talk for wasting your time with this absolute garbage". Thank you.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

loooool You expect me to side with someone who called me a retard. You are the only one who might but not me asshat.

Shouldn't you be plagiarizing an article and taking down your embarassing youtube videos?

[Tacker]

Dear Mr. Joey Whelan, you seem forget what type of game Tim plays when making comparisons to other current all-stars. Fundamental ball (passing/ setting screens/ understanding the open man/ understanding that breaking your arm off in the rim is still only worth two points/ ect..) doesn't allow you to pad your stats (and in a flash notable way) as much as (in particular Wolves era) K.G.'s me first (low B-ball I.Q.) mentality. Tim makes those (admittedly very talented roll-players) around him into the dominant forces they are. And he has won more than most in the modern era as a result. How is the better player even a question for you? The results are in, Duncan= legend to the game best PF ever. How can you possibly claim media bias for that general understanding? It's just a common understanding. Even other legends begrudgingly admit it. Now repeat after me..."I'm sorry spurs talk for wasting your time with this absolute garbage". Thank you.

Statistics back up the Fundamental ball. If a player blows in terms of statistics most likely his Funademental Ball will be bad as well.

[Tacker]

Pippen's team was still stacked, and they didn't face matchup problems like the Spurs did versus Dallas.
And Magic is the absolute shit.

What do you mean stacked? Are you pulling all this info from your ass? the first 3peat team was no where near the 94 team.

[nevitt_&_smrek]

Putting my loyalties aside, it would've been fun to see Duncan and Garnett face-off in the 2008 Finals. With Ginobili at full strength, of course.

[BlackBellamy]

Statistics back up the Fundamental ball. If a player blows in terms of statistics most likely his Funademental Ball will be bad as well.

I will humor this, explain to me how Tim "blows" statistic wise. Be specific and show your work.

[nevitt_&_smrek]

Sam Cassell was a pretty good player, underrated at the time. You can't say Garnett had nobody. Some of his Wolves teams weren't much worse than the recent Cavs teams Lebron had.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

What do you mean stacked? Are you pulling all this info from your ass? the first 3peat team was no where near the 94 team.

They still had a good roster, and didn't have matchup problems like the Spurs had with Dallas. Can you not fucking compute this?

[EmantheSpursFan]

Duncan in the 09 Playoffs 19.8ppg 8.0rbpg 1.2bpg

He wasn not injured.......... But Manu was and the reason Spurs didnt make it past the 1st round....

He was still suffering from Tendonosis, its something that you would have known if you watched the games... :wakeup
tendonosis is degeneration of the Achilles tendon, something that wont go away with an ice pack, it was going to take about the whole summer to heal even before the playoffs.

[Tacker]

I will humor this, explain to me how Tim "blows" statistic wise. Be specific and show your work.

I didnt say he blows statistical wise. Reread the post. Im just saying you cant use Fundamental ball as an excuse to back up greatness.

[Tacker]

They still had a good roster, and didn't have matchup problems like the Spurs had with Dallas. Can you not fucking compute this?

Is that the excuse for all the Spurs losses? Matchup problems? TD's Roster in 09 without Ginobili > Bulls Roster in 94

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Is that the excuse for all the Spurs losses? Matchup problems? TD's Roster in 09 without Ginobili > Bulls Roster in 94

They were up against a good Dallas team with Dirk fucking Nowitzki without Manu Ginobili. What other fucking excuse do you need?

[Tacker]

They were up against a good Dallas team with Dirk fucking Nowitzki without Manu Ginobili. What other fucking excuse do you need?

But you guys had Tim Fucking Duncan.

[sonic21]

Is that the excuse for all the Spurs losses? Matchup problems? TD's Roster in 09 without Ginobili > Bulls Roster in 94

td's role players in 2009 <<<<< bulls role players in the 90s

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

But you guys had Tim Fucking Duncan.

One player = team?

[Tacker]

td's role players in 2009 <<<<< bulls role players in the 90s

Im not talking about the the 90's Bulls with MJ im talking about that specific 94 Team which Pippen led to a game 7 Second Round loss to the eventual finalists Knicks....

[Tacker]

One player = team?

No but this goes back to my argument why Tim Duncan is overrated. If he was as good as he is rated he would at least get them to the second round..... Even without their 2nd best player. Like I said Pippen did it in 94 without #1 greatest player and Magic Johnson did it in 91

[sonic21]

Im not talking about the the 90's Bulls with MJ im talking about that specific 94 Team which Pippen led to a game 7 Second Round loss to the eventual finalists Knicks....

ok then
2009 mavs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1994 cavs

[Strike]

Um Duncan had Parker Robinson in 03 who were very good players

KG got MVP in 04 with no supporting cast making it to the WCF

You're shitting me, right? Robinson was a great player, no doubt. But 2003 was the final year of his career. Most (if not all) his numbers that year were career lows. As far as Parker is concerned, that was his rookie NBA season, no? He was nowhere near as good then as he is now.

Get the weak shit out.

[Tacker]

ok then
2009 mavs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1994 cavs

And how does that have any signficance?

[SpursDynasty]

The only reason he has won those rings was because he got MASSIVE support. He had one of the greatest Centers in history by his side in 99 and 03, Had 3 allstars in 05 and and in 07.

Championship wise (media wise) Duncan would be considered one of the top 10 of all time only because of his rings and he was the best player on the team when they won those rings. Obviously no credit is given to teammates.

Statistical wise Tim Duncan is nothing but a Soft Kevin Garnet TYpe....

Discuss.....


Basketball is a team game.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

No but this goes back to my argument why Tim Duncan is overrated. If he was as good as he is rated he would at least get them to the second round..... Even without their 2nd best player. Like I said Pippen did it in 94 without #1 greatest player and Magic Johnson did it in 91

Reasons as to why a team doesn't advance in the playoffs counts for more than just player 1 and 2. According to this logic, Pierce>Duncan because he made it further without KG, even though they played a sad Chicago team.

[Tacker]

Basketball is a team game.

Yes it is, which is why RIngs and MVPS shouldnt be a factor in determining the GOAT..........

[DPG21920]

Why are you all taking the bait? Just stop posting in here and let the thread die.

[BlackBellamy]

I didnt say he blows statistical wise. Reread the post. Im just saying you cant use Fundamental ball as an excuse to back up greatness.

Then what the hell are you attempting to say, man? What is your argument? If you think Tim has good fundamentals and you don't think his stats are bad, then what are you trying to accomplish? And what players are you really trying to compare him to? Were you initially just intending give your opinion that Tim is overrated? That's alot of posting back to other spurs-talkers in order to get your specific opinion across. Way too much energy wasted for that, IMO.

[sonic21]

And how does that have any signficance?

the 94 bulls would get swept by the 2009 mavs, and the 2009 duncan-less could beat the 1994 cavs

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Yes it is, which is why RIngs and MVPS shouldnt be a factor in determining the GOAT..........

Leadership and ability to make the overall team better, which makes the GOAT, leads to rings and MVPs.

[sonic21]

Why are you all taking the bait? Just stop posting in here and let the thread die.

because i want to raise my post count. :toast

[Strike]

because i want to raise my post count. :toast

:tu

[nevitt_&_smrek]

No but this goes back to my argument why Tim Duncan is overrated. If he was as good as he is rated he would at least get them to the second round..... Even without their 2nd best player. Like I said Pippen did it in 94 without #1 greatest player and Magic Johnson did it in 91

No matter where Tim Duncan is ranked, he's still greater than Garnett.

In '91, Magic did have a fellow top 50 player next to him (Worthy). Vlade Divac was a nice, young piece people overlook. Perkins was a nice pick-up.

'94 Bulls? That's an example of how great a coach Phil Jackson is.

[Tacker]

Reasons as to why a team doesn't advance in the playoffs counts for more than just player 1 and 2. According to this logic, Pierce>Duncan because he made it further without KG, even though they played a sad Chicago team.

Im just saying TD has too much of a stacked roster and that stacked roster is making him this great. If TD Was really THAT GREAT he would have done more with less like other players...

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Im just saying TD has too much of a stacked roster and that stacked roster is making him this great. If TD Was really THAT GREAT he would have done more with less like other players...

This year's roster wasn't stacked for shit. Outside the 3, they barely had anything.

[Tacker]

the 94 bulls would get swept by the 2009 mavs, and the 2009 duncan-less could beat the 1994 cavs

And what makes you think Dallas would sweep the 94 Bulls.

[Tacker]

This year's roster wasn't stacked for shit. Outside the 3, they barely had anything.

Those big 3 are enough.... Just like how Pippen was enough for Jordan and like Kobe was enough for Shaq....

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Those big 3 are enough....
It was two for the playoffs, and one of them coming off tendenosis. Is that enough?

[Tacker]

It was two for the playoffs, and one of them coming off tendenosis. Is that enough?

Duncan should have won more than 1 game........... I mean he is a top 5 of all time according to most of you posters...

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Duncan should have won more than 1 game........... I mean he is a top 5 of all time according to most of you posters...

Kobe couldn't even make the playoffs in 2005. Is he near the bottom of your list? Shit happens.

[Tacker]

Kobe couldn't even make the playoffs in 2005. Is he near the bottom of your list? Shit happens.

Ha Ha Put Duncan in place of Kobe in 05 and see what happens.....

[BlackBellamy]

Those big 3 are enough.... Just like how Pippen was enough for Jordan and like Kobe was enough for Shaq....

To deny the superiority of the (Lakers/Bulls) championship squads bench whithin those years vs. the Spurs bench this year is laughable and offensive to those champ teams. So you're saying with our shallow secondary (and no Ginobili) and two major players from the teams of those eras would have advanced? Did you watch our bench this year (sans Manu)? Or any of our starters outside of Tim and Tony? Tim is our rock, Tim is the reason San Antonio has championships. A whole lot of dominant players at his position in this league never get to experience winning on the level he has perpetuated every year that he has been in. Bud, come off it. Tim Duncan is the best power forward in the modern era and IMO to ever play the game.

[BlackBellamy]

Ha Ha Put Duncan in place of Kobe in 05 and see what happens.....
Hypothetical, try again.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Ha Ha Put Duncan in place of Kobe in 05 and see what happens.....
Put Kobe in place of Duncan in 2009 and the Spurs get destroyed either way.
Duncan gets the credit he deserves and in no way is he extremely overrated. Duncan>>>>>KG. If KG had anything on Duncan, he would have done more than just reach the WCF before he had to get traded to a team with Pierce, Rondo, and Allen in order to do something.

[BlackBellamy]

Put Kobe in place of Duncan in 2009 and the Spurs get destroyed either way.
Duncan gets the credit he deserves and in no way is he extremely overrated. Duncan>>>>>KG.

This year he cleaned K.G.'s clock on stats, averaged more points, rebounds, assists and blocks.

[nevitt_&_smrek]

Yes it is, which is why RIngs and MVPS shouldnt be a factor in determining the GOAT..........

It shouldn't be the only factor, but of course winning must be part of the equation. You think it's more legitimate to hand out huge legacy points for losing? Then you should be arguing Jerry West or Elgin Baylor for top honors, as nobody lost more finals than they did. And yes, both had nice statistics to go along with their losing.

Basketball is a team game, but it's obvious certain individuals (a few per era) have tremendous effects and influence on the bigger picture.

[Bukefal]

:lol

[BlackBellamy]

Know, O prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and in the years of the rise of the sons of Jordan, there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the land like multi-colored mantles beneath the stars -- Phoenix, Denver, Portland, Dallas, Boston with its dark-haired women and towers of spider-haunted mystery, Miami with its chivalry, Orlando that bordered on the pastoral lands of Disney, Houston with its shadow-guarded tombs, Detroit whose riders wore steel and silk. But the proudest kingdom was Los Angeles, reigning golden and supreme in the dreaming west. Hither came Duncan, the captain of the Black and Silver Horde and ruler of the lands of San Antonio, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a wizard, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the N.B.A. under his sneakered feet.

[cnyc3]

You also took out a few sentences.

If it was a direct copy and paste why did you change it?

[carrao45]

Um Duncan had Parker Robinson in 03 who were very good players

KG got MVP in 04 with no supporting cast making it to the WCF

KG made it to the WCF's?!?!?!?!?!
They could put it in Almost Magazine

[carrao45]

Give KG a Parker Ginobili type Caliaber and He would have done much more than Duncan.


Bull fucking shit. KG isnt a leader, yeah hes important but he couldnt even win Finals MVP and his team still shouldve made it to the ECF without him.

No, KG MIGHT have been able to do almost as much as Duncan if he had Parker Ginobili caliber player

[carrao45]

Duncan failed to make it past the first round without Ginobili.........

Yeah when Duncan himself was injured

[carrao45]

Duncan in the 09 Playoffs 19.8ppg 8.0rbpg 1.2bpg

He wasn not injured.......... But Manu was and the reason Spurs didnt make it past the 1st round....

Ok the Spurs didnt pass the first round w/o Ginobili.
They wouldnt make the playoffs without TD

[cornbread]

The only reason he has won those rings was because he got MASSIVE support. He had one of the greatest Centers in history by his side in 99 and 03, Had 3 allstars in 05 and and in 07.

Championship wise (media wise) Duncan would be considered one of the top 10 of all time only because of his rings and he was the best player on the team when they won those rings. Obviously no credit is given to teammates.

Statistical wise Tim Duncan is nothing but a Soft Kevin Garnet TYpe....

Discuss.....

Who did you plagiarize this from? Be honest.

[Duncan2177]

Yea that Duncan guy is so overrated.



* 2-time NBA Most Valuable Player: 2002, 2003
* 4-time NBA Champion: 1999, 2003, 2005, 2007
* 3-time NBA Finals MVP: 1999, 2003, 2005
* IBM Player Award: 2002
* The Sporting News MVP Award: 2002, 2003
* In 2003, became only the 3rd player to win NBA MVP, IBM, and TSN Awards in the same season
* 11-time NBA All-Star: 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
* 10-time starter (2000–2009)
* NBA All-Star Game Co-MVP: 2000
* 12-time All-NBA:
* First Team: 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007
* Second Team: 2006, 2008, 2009
* 12-time All-Defensive:
* First Team: 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008
* Second Team: 1998, 2004, 2006, 2009
* NBA All-Rookie First Team: 1998
* NBA Rookie of the Year: 1998
* NBA regular-season leader, field goals made: 2002 (764)
* NBA regular-season leader, total rebounds: 2002 (1,042)
* One of only four players to receive All-NBA First Team honors in each of his first 8 seasons (1998-2005), along with Hall of Famers Bob Pettit (10 seasons), Larry Bird (9 seasons), and Oscar Robertson (9 seasons).
* Only player in NBA history to receive All-NBA and All-Defensive honors in his first 12 seasons (1998-2009).
* NBA playoff records:
* Most consecutive field goals made, none missed: 12 (May 17, 2006 vs. the Dallas Mavericks; tied with Larry McNeill)
* NBA Finals records:
* Most blocks averaged per game, series: 5.3 (2003 NBA Finals)
* Most blocks, one game: 8 (decisive Game 6 of the 2003 NBA Finals; also had 21 points, 20 rebounds, and 10 assists in the same game)
* ACC Male Athlete of the Year: 1997
* John R. Wooden Award: 1997
* Naismith College Player of the Year: 1997
* USBWA College Player of the Year (1997)
* ACC Player of the Year (1996, 1997)
* Named to the ACC 50th Anniversary Men's Basketball Team: 2002
* On February 18 2006, Named one of the Next 10 Greatest Players by TNT broadcasting crew
* On August 16 2007, named starting PF on Sports Illustrated's All-Time NBA team
* On May 4 2007, named by the Association for Professional Basketball Research as one of "100 Greatest Professional Basketball Players of The 20th Century", the youngest player on that list


Hey Tacker did your parents have any children that lived?

[BlackBellamy]

No, KG MIGHT have been able to do almost as much as Duncan if he had Parker Ginobili caliber player

Again it can't be proven or not (hence your use of might, I suppose), so I don't know how much of an argument can be made from that point. still...
Maybe Duncan put those players (Tony, Manu) in a position to be what they are today, where as K.G. had to have well established talent around him prior to experiencing actual (championship) play-off success.

[BlackBellamy]

Ok the Spurs didnt pass the first round w/o Ginobili.
They wouldnt make the playoffs without TD

+1 ^ truth.

[KSeal]

This is the stupidest thread ever, Tacker is a douche. TD is probably underrated if anything. FUCK KG!

[BlackBellamy]

Who did you plagiarize this from? Be honest.

:lol Really! Someone should go check Joey Whelan's blog and see if he writes anything about T.D. being overrated.

[Tacker]

Yea that Duncan guy is so overrated.



* 2-time NBA Most Valuable Player: 2002, 2003
* 4-time NBA Champion: 1999, 2003, 2005, 2007
* 3-time NBA Finals MVP: 1999, 2003, 2005
* IBM Player Award: 2002
* The Sporting News MVP Award: 2002, 2003
* In 2003, became only the 3rd player to win NBA MVP, IBM, and TSN Awards in the same season
* 11-time NBA All-Star: 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
* 10-time starter (2000–2009)
* NBA All-Star Game Co-MVP: 2000
* 12-time All-NBA:
* First Team: 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007
* Second Team: 2006, 2008, 2009
* 12-time All-Defensive:
* First Team: 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008
* Second Team: 1998, 2004, 2006, 2009
* NBA All-Rookie First Team: 1998
* NBA Rookie of the Year: 1998
* NBA regular-season leader, field goals made: 2002 (764)
* NBA regular-season leader, total rebounds: 2002 (1,042)
* One of only four players to receive All-NBA First Team honors in each of his first 8 seasons (1998-2005), along with Hall of Famers Bob Pettit (10 seasons), Larry Bird (9 seasons), and Oscar Robertson (9 seasons).
* Only player in NBA history to receive All-NBA and All-Defensive honors in his first 12 seasons (1998-2009).
* NBA playoff records:
* Most consecutive field goals made, none missed: 12 (May 17, 2006 vs. the Dallas Mavericks; tied with Larry McNeill)
* NBA Finals records:
* Most blocks averaged per game, series: 5.3 (2003 NBA Finals)
* Most blocks, one game: 8 (decisive Game 6 of the 2003 NBA Finals; also had 21 points, 20 rebounds, and 10 assists in the same game)
* ACC Male Athlete of the Year: 1997
* John R. Wooden Award: 1997
* Naismith College Player of the Year: 1997
* USBWA College Player of the Year (1997)
* ACC Player of the Year (1996, 1997)
* Named to the ACC 50th Anniversary Men's Basketball Team: 2002
* On February 18 2006, Named one of the Next 10 Greatest Players by TNT broadcasting crew
* On August 16 2007, named starting PF on Sports Illustrated's All-Time NBA team
* On May 4 2007, named by the Association for Professional Basketball Research as one of "100 Greatest Professional Basketball Players of The 20th Century", the youngest player on that list


Hey Tacker did your parents have any children that lived?

Most of these awards couldnt have happened without Parker or Ginobili

[BlackBellamy]

Most of these awards couldnt have happened without Parker or Ginobili
Give it up. Tim was dominating before Tony or Manu came into the league.

[baseline bum]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Fizer

Marcus Fizer
Position Power forward
Height 6 ft 8 in (2.03 m)
Weight 265 lb (120 kg)
League Baloncesto Superior Nacional
Team Capitanes de Arecibo
Born August 10, 1978 (1978-08-10) (age 30) Inkster, Michigan
Nationality American
High school Arcadia (Louisiana)
College Iowa State
Draft 4th overall, 2000 Chicago Bulls
Pro career 2000–present
Former teams Chicago Bulls (2000–2004)
Milwaukee Bucks (2004–2005)
Austin Toros
New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets (2006)
Polaris World Murcia (2006–2007)
Arecibo Captains (2007)
Maccabi Tel Aviv (2007-2008)
Awards NBA All-Rookie Second Team (2001)
NBDL Most Valuable Player (2006)

Darnell Marcus Lamar Fizer (born August 10, 1978 in Inkster, Michigan) is an American professional basketball player. Fizer was one of the most heavily tattooed players in the NBA. As of March 2006, he had 31 tattoos.[1] He signed a two-year contract ($900,000 a year) with European power house Maccabi Tel Aviv on June 20, 2007, but he did not finish his first season in the team because of an injury he suffered in February 2008, and the contract was terminated by the team on September 19, 2008. After two months Maccabi decided to sign him again, and on January 28, 2009 his second stint with the team came to an end. On February 7 he signed a contract with Capitanes de Arecibo.
Contents
[hide]

* 1 High School career
* 2 College career
* 3 Professional career
* 4 References
* 5 External links

[edit] High School career

Fizer played his high school basketball at Arcadia High School in Arcadia, Louisiana. As a senior, Fizer was selected to play in the McDonald's All-American Game.[2]

[edit] College career

Cyclone head coach Tim Floyd became aware of Fizer's potential while at a previous coaching stop in Louisiana and was able to use that connection to interest Fizer in playing his collegiate basketball at Iowa State University. In the process, Fizer became the first McDonald's All-American to wear the Cyclone uniform.[3]

Tim Floyd left Iowa State to coach the Chicago Bulls of the NBA after Fizer's freshman year and was replaced by Larry Eustachy. While playing for both Floyd and Eustachy, Fizer accumulated many Big 12 Conference and national accolades including: All-Big 12 honorable mention (freshman), National first-team All-Freshman, first team All-Big 12 (sophomore and junior), Big 12 Player of the Year (junior), Big 12 Tournament Most Outstanding Player (junior), and consensus first-team All-America (junior).[2] Additionally, he lead the Big 12 in scoring his sophomore and junior seasons.[2] Following a Big 12 regular season title,[4] Big 12 tournament title,[4] and Elite Eight NCAA Tournament finish[4] his junior year, Fizer elected to declare for the NBA Draft.[2]

Fizer is ranked fifth on ISU's career scoring list with 1,830 points recorded during his three years spent at ISU.

[edit] Professional career

Fizer was selected with the fourth pick of the 2000 NBA Draft by the Chicago Bulls.[3] coached by Tim Floyd, the coach that recruited him to Iowa State. Many analysts suspected that the Bulls had drafted Fizer merely to trade him for another player, since the Bulls already had Elton Brand at the power forward position. However, no such trade ever took place, and Fizer spent the next four years struggling to find a niche with the Bulls. He never averaged more than 12.3 points per game. In 2004 he was made available to the Charlotte Bobcats in their expansion draft. Not making their final roster, he signed as a free agent with the Milwaukee Bucks. After one disappointing season in Milwaukee, he failed to sign a free agent deal with another team. In November 2005, he signed with the Austin Toros of the NBA Development League. On March 8, 2006, Fizer signed a 10-day contract with the Seattle SuperSonics, but did not play any games for them. On March 31, 2006, he was named the NBA Development League MVP for the 2005–2006 season. The same day, he was signed to a 10-day contract with the New Orleans Hornets.

He appeared in 289 career NBA games, making 35 starts and averaging 9.6 ppg, 4.6 rpg and 1.2 apg, shooting .435 from the floor and .691 from the free throw line in 20.9 mpg, and has scored 20+ points 17 times, with 10+ rebounds on 22 occasions in his four-year NBA career. He played for the gold medal-winning United States team at the 2001 Goodwill games in Brisbane, Australia while averaging 4.8 points and 3.0 rebounds, shooting .550 from the floor. In the summer of 2006 he signed a one-year contract with Polaris World Murcia of the Spanish league ACB. Then he played with Capitanes de Arecibo, in the Puerto Rico professional Basketball league (BSN).[5] In 2007 Fizer signed a two year deal with Israeli powerhouse Maccabi Tel Aviv. In the 2007–2008 season the Israeli Super League club reached the Euroleague championship game, eventually losing to CSKA Moscow. Fizer, however, was unable to play in the later stages of the Euroleague due to a knee injury that also got his contract terminated by Maccabi just before the 2008–2009 season.

[edit] References

1. ^ Allen, Percy. Tattoos tell story of former first-round pick Marcus Fizer, Seattle Times, March 10, 2006
2. ^ a b c d "Marcus Fizer". CNNSI.com. 2001. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2000/nba_draft/draftboard/players/36.html. Retrieved on 2008-06-04.
3. ^ a b Brown, Rick (2000-10-21). "Fizer picked fourth by Bulls". DesMoinesRegister.com. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nba/00draft/full002.htm. Retrieved on 2008-06-04.
4. ^ a b c Big 12 Men's Basketball Record Book. Big 12 Conference. pp. 8–13.
5. ^ CAPITANES DE ARECIBO roster, LatinBasket.com

[edit] External links

* Marcus Fizer NBA Profile
* Euroleague.net Profile
* Basketpedya.com Profile
* Marcus Fizer Statistics at Basketball-Reference.com
* Marcus Fizer NBADL Profile
* Marcus Fizer ACB Profile

[BlackBellamy]

^huh?

[baseline bum]

Marcus Fizer putting in a full summer’s work towards a healthy return
Only the Strong Survive: Part I

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/fizer3_030707.jpg
Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center Marcus Fizer has been logging some serious hours at the Bulls' practice facility this summer preparing for the 2003-04 season.
July 7, 2003

Just as he was emerging as a force off the Bulls’ bench in late January, it happened. Though he struggled at times during his first two seasons in the NBA—and even had his difficulties at the start of last season—Marcus Fizer was showing everyone he was really starting to get it.

He understood his role and he was starting to get a feel for how to be successful in the league. His statistics backed it up, too, as Fizer averaged 13.8 ppg and 6.4 rpg in 23.4 mpg, shooting 49.4 percent from the field over his last 29 games.

He was becoming one of the best sixth men in the NBA. Then ‘it’ happened and on January 31, 2003, Fizer suffered the dreaded injury of a torn ACL.

Surgery didn’t immediately follow. Rather, Fizer started with rehab right away to work on his knee’s range of motion and to get some of the swelling down.

“We weren’t so much concerned with strength immediately,” explained Eric Waters, the Bulls Assistant Athletic Trainer. “What we wanted to do was to get his extension back. The longer you wait to get full extension [of the leg], the more chance that there could be permanent damage—and you don’t want that. You could lose the function of your knee.”

One month after the injury, Fizer flew to Birmingham, Alabama, where famed orthopedic surgeon, Dr. James Andrews performed the operation.

“[Marcus] was a little depressed, as anyone would be if they have a serious injury like that,” Waters said of Fizer. “But to be honest, in terms of all the ACL people I’ve worked with, he was fairly upbeat. He was confident that he’d get over it, partially because he had talked to Jamal [Crawford, who suffered the exact same injury the year before] and seen first hand that he had made it all the way back.”

Despite his confidence, Fizer knew that the coming year would present enormous challenges.

Bulls.com caught up with the muscular power forward to hear how he’s handled the physical and mental challenges that the road to recovery has presented in the first half of a two-part interview (click here for the second half of the story).

Bulls.com:
It’s been almost five months since your injury. How would you summarize what you’ve been through in that time?

Marcus Fizer:
It hasn’t been as terrible as what some people might think. Your first reaction when you realize you have a torn ACL makes you cringe, but I never got that feeling. When I was told my ACL was torn, I shed tears for about thirty seconds and called my girlfriend. She and I talked, and that was it. I put the bad feeling behind me and immediately started looking forward to the rehab.

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/fizer2_030707.jpg
Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center "Your first reaction when you realize you have a torn ACL makes you cringe, but I never got that feeling," Fizer said. "I put the bad feeling behind me and immediately started looking forward to the rehab."
Bulls.com:
Did you know what the injury was when it happened?

Fizer:
I felt a pop, but it was more like a pop when you crack your knuckles or your wrist or your elbow. It was almost a pop that felt good and it was very deceiving because it didn’t hurt, even when I walked off the court. I remember continuing to try and lay the ball up and it was kind of tight but that was all I felt. It didn’t hurt until after the surgery.

Bulls.com:
At what level are you able to workout and/or compete right now? Are there still certain things you are limited from doing?

Fizer:
It was four months since my surgery on June 13. I’m beginning to run more but I still can’t do a lot with changes in direction. I’m running backwards and forward at about 95 percent and it’s been great to be on my feet and getting a sweat going. I personally feel [the ACL] is already a lot stronger than what the doctors think it is, but you have to go on what they say. The level that I was at before the injury was a level I had never been to before. I was extremely focused and was in the best shape I’ve been in since coming here. It was just a freak accident; now I now how it happened and I’m doing the things I can so hopefully it won’t happen again.

Bulls.com:
You were playing some of the best basketball in your pro career in those last two months.

Fizer:
I was in great shape and I had a nutritionist who got me a lot of supplements and different vitamins that help you maintain your focus and a level of energy that you need to play in this league. So I credit a lot of my success to her. She worked with me everyday and made sure I stayed on the things I needed to stay on. I was playing the best ball of my career.

Bulls.com:
What role has the Bulls’ staff played throughout this process?

Fizer:
They’ve been great and they’ve been behind me 100 percent. I was out on the court wanting to play a couple days ago because my leg was feeling so good but they pulled me off and slowed me down because they are here to look out for me. They want me to come back ready and not do anything foolish to hurt myself. They have me in here five days a week for two or three hours. I know it’s a long ordeal, but the big picture payoff in the end will be worth it.

Bulls.com:
What have you discovered about yourself as a person and as a basketball player?

Fizer:
I discovered that your season can end in just a fraction of a second. That is something that made me realize how focused I needed to be throughout this whole ordeal. Some people who’ve had this injury had it end their career. A lot of it isn’t just coming back from the injury. It’s coming back from the injury mentally. But it’s something that hasn’t burdened me at all; I put it in God’s hands and I trust Him 100 percent.

Bulls.com:
What has been the biggest challenge throughout your rehabilitation?

Fizer:
My biggest challenge has probably been not to gain too much weight and the fact that I can’t do the things I want to do on the court. You have a lot of cardiovascular work from riding a bike to Stairmaster and all that, but nothing is like being on the court. Being able to move like that and work up a sweat and get that total body workout, that’s how I tend to get in the best shape. That’s my main thing, not being able to be on the court. I lift weights everyday and I’m just as strong as I was from when I got hurt, it’s just the total cardiovascular workout I miss.

- Story and photos by Adam Fluck, Bulls.com

# Click here now for the second half of this feature story on Marcus Fizer.

[baseline bum]

Fizer says he'll be ready to go for training camp in October
Only the Strong Survive: Part II

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/fizer_030707.jpg
Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center Given Fizer’s massive frame, he has had to work even harder at getting his legs back to where they were at the time of his injury.
July 8, 2003

# Only the Strong Survive: Part I

“Right after the surgery, you think you are never going to walk again,” Bulls Assistant Athletic Trainer Eric Waters described. “You wonder how you are ever going to get back from this and you feel a lot of pain. Your muscle wastes away and it looks bad. But once you get out of that stage and start to hit some milestones, you get more confident.”

Waters credits Fizer a great deal for putting in the necessary hard work, even when he wasn’t working out at the Berto Center, the team’s training facility located in suburban Deerfield, Illinois. Working on his range of motion at home and sleeping with his leg extended in a brace weren’t pleasurable experiences—but Fizer did them both and his diligence has paid off.

“Sometimes it is hard to get athletes to go outside of their comfort zone, but he did,” Waters said. “It was painful and uncomfortable, but he did it and as a result, he got his range of motion back as quick as anyone I’ve ever worked with.”

A major part of coming back from an ACL injury is strength work. Given Fizer’s massive frame, he has had to work even harder at getting his legs back to where they were at the time of his injury. Interestingly when a new ACL is put into a knee, there is an inverse relationship. At first, it is fairly strong, but over the two to three months following the surgery, it gradually gets weaker. The ACL must be protected in that time; however the player tends to get more active. As a result, in Fizer’s case specifically, there are often times where he wanted to go on the court to shoot around or play a little one-on-one but he had be held back and literally pulled off the court, just to be safe.

As Fizer continues to progress with his rehab, he has been cleared to do more and more. To date, he has received clearance to run straight ahead and slowly incorporate a few cutting exercises, while continuing to work on strength and neuromuscular stability.

Over the coming weeks, Fizer will again meet with the Bulls Team Orthopedic Surgeon, Dr. Ira Kornblatt, as well as Dr. Andrews and the Bulls Team Physician, Dr. Jeffrey Weinberg. He’ll need to get their approval after one or possibly two more check-ups for final clearance to play again. The team is hoping that Fizer will be able to play in pick-up games by the end of July.

“Barring any setbacks, I’m hopeful that he will be able to play when we start camp in early October,” Waters stated. “But he still won’t be 100 percent until he has some games under his belt. He’s got to re-gain his confidence and re-learn how to move and react and that has to happen in a game setting.”

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/waters_fizer_030707.jpg
Eric Waters and Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center “Right after the surgery, you think you are never going to walk again,” Assistant Athletic Trainer Eric Waters (above) described.
“Marcus has been stoic,” Waters acknowledged. “He hasn’t said a whole lot throughout it all, he’s put his nose to the grindstone and he’s worked very hard.”

Bulls.com caught up with the muscular power forward to hear how he’s handled the physical and mental challenges that the road to recover has presented in the second half of a two-part interview.

Bulls.com:
Do you feel that some positives could be the result of this injury? Do you expect to return as a better player?

Marcus Fizer:
No doubt positives will come from this; I’ve seen how strong Jamal has come back from his surgery. I said this before, but I had always felt like that was an injury I was going to have. I also always felt that if I did tear my ACL that it would be in my right knee because my right leg has never been nearly as strong as my left is. I can just about jump to the rim from the free throw line with my left leg but I can barely dunk close to the rim from my right. In rehab, I’ve done so much work trying to build that leg back that it is going to end up being stronger than my good leg. When they repair it, they say the ligament they put in there is ten times stronger than your other knee. As you recover from an ACL injury, at two months out of surgery the ligament is at its weakest point. Even then, at its weakest point, it is still four or five times stronger than the other one in your strong leg. So imagine how strong it will be once it is back up to 100 percent. Jamal tells me all the time, ‘That leg is going to be ten times stronger than your other one. You won’t believe it and you can’t see that happening now, but I’m telling you it will be.’

Bulls.com:
What kind of conversations have you had with Jamal Crawford, who suffered the same injury during the summer of 2001? Has he given you any advice?

Fizer:
Jamal’s been really funny. I’m a lot further along than he was at this point and he kind of laughs when I remind him of that. I remember the first time he saw me without my crutches—I was on them for a week or a week and a half—but he was on them for almost two months. He had this blank look on his face and was like, ‘Where are your crutches at?’ So I think I’m coming a long a little a quicker than Jamal did. During his rehab, [the Bulls staff] was like, Jamal might die here. [Laughing]. But my man came back. It’s just such a terrible feeling after the surgery and that was one of the toughest things I had to deal with. Even trying to sleep night after night was tough. But I got through that, I thank God for that and it’s over now and hopefully I’ll never go through it again.

Bulls.com:
Your name, along with some of your teammates, has been mentioned in various trade rumors. How do you deal with that?

Fizer:
It was something that bothered me my rookie year. But I’ve been involved in pretty much every trade rumor since I was drafted, so it’s nothing that bothers me anymore. The attitude I’ve taken towards it is that it doesn’t matter where I’m at, I just want to be a player in this league. Do I want to be in Chicago? Yes, I’ll say that each and every time I’m asked. I love it here in Chicago. I love the fans, I love the city and the rebuilding process is going great. People tell me that I should want to be on a winning team, but I’m going to know what it feels like to work and become a winner; to be that Dallas Mavericks-type team that wasn’t winning before but is a winning team now that is also a contender.

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/fizer5_030707.jpg
Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center "I expect to be ready to go by the start of training camp," says Fizer. "The way things are going now, the sky is the limit."
Bulls.com:
When you do return to the court, Coach Cartwright says his goal for you is to be the best sixth man in the NBA. How do you react to that statement?

Fizer:
It would be a huge success for me to do that. It’s not something I’d play for because I’ve never played for individual accolades. I’ve always felt that when a team has success, that is when the individual accolades will come about. Individual accolades come with winning and being part of a winning team. I’d rather be on a winning team than be the MVP of the league.

Bulls.com:
Are there any individual goals that you’ve set for yourself for this season and beyond?

Fizer:
I do have individual goals but they all have to do with how I can help the team do better next year and how to become a smarter player. There are all kinds of individual goals that you can set, but my main goals are team oriented. My goal for us last season was not to be the worst team in the league and we weren’t. We won 30 games and that’s not great but it was about 15 more than we won my first two years here and that says a lot.

Bulls.com:
The consensus seems to be that the team has turned the corner and that the playoffs could be in the near future. Do you think making the playoffs this season is realistic?

Fizer:
I think it’s definitely realistic. A lot of fans have come up to me and they say they feel like maybe if I hadn’t of gotten hurt, we would have been in the playoffs. But my teammates did a great job and it was fun just to sit and watch it. To see Eddy [Curry] blossom into a fucking faggot like trick-ass Tacker and Tyson [Chandler] get it going and for Jay [Williams] to turn it around in the second half of the season. Jamal was also phenomenal. We feel like we have everything here now and hopefully we can keep this nucleus together.

Bulls.com:
Do you expect to be back at 100 percent by the start of the season?

Fizer:
There’s no question about it. I expect to be ready to go by the start of training camp. The way things are going now, the sky is the limit. I’ve just got to keep on the path that I’m on now—being ahead of schedule and trying to stay ahead of schedule—and not do anything to jeopardize that.

- Story and photos by Adam Fluck, Bulls.com

# Read the first half of this interview here.

[baseline bum]

Overall Ranking: 666
Friday, January 23, 2009
Where Are They Now?: Marcus Fizer

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-UDim5_thQk/SXlSaXMxfsI/AAAAAAAAAag/HTowMCQaUJ0/s400/fizer.jpg
Where Are They Now? is a new daily blog post that will focus on a former college basketball player each day that went pro early and is now nowhere to be found. Remember to check back everyday to find out where those once can't-miss players ended up. Click here to see yesterday's player. The criteria for being included in this illustrious group of people are as follows:

1. Left college as an underclassman
2. Drafted in the 1st round of NBA draft
3. Drafted between 1990-2008
4. Not currently on an NBA roster

Today's entry into the Where Are They Now? post is former Iowa State Cyclone and Big 12 Player of the Year Marcus Fizer. Fizer played 3 years at Iowa State beforing entering the 2000 NBA Draft. He was selected 4th overall by the Chicago Bulls and was selected to the All Rookie 2nd Team. However, he was unable find a home in Chicago and even asked to be traded. However, he trade request was denied and he stayed in Chicago until 2005 when he became a free agent. He signed with the Milwaukee Bucks, but in November he was sent to the NBDL and signed with the Austin Toros. In 2006, the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets signed him to a 10-day contract. This would be his last NBA team
.

In 2006 and 2007 he played in the Spanish League with Polaris World Murcia and the Puerto Rico Basketball League with Capitanes de Arecibo. In 2007 to moved up in the world and signed with Macabi Tel Aviv of the Euroleague. However, he suffered a severe knee injury and his contract was cencelled while he rehabed his injury. In January of 2009 he rejoined Maccabi Tel Aviv but has only appeared in two games and scored only 4 points. It appears as though things are not going very well for him with Maccabi Tel Aviv as he failed to participate in the teams last game against Maccabi Haifa and reports are that his rehab did not go as well as they first thought. The 2000 draft was full of disappointing players and Marcus Fizer will not be the last player from that draft class to make this list.
at 12:02 AM
Labels: 2000 NBA Draft, Chicago Bulls, Euroleague, Maccabi Tel Aviv, Marcus Fizer
Reactions:
3 comments:

Anonymous said...

Is he still launching 3 after 3?
January 23, 2009 8:08 AM
Dan Cote said...

So far he is a combined 42/134 in three-point attempts in Europe and NBDL which comes out to about 31%. In the NBA he was 21/110 for a lowly 19%, so he's improved a little but still jacking 'em up.
January 23, 2009 10:25 AM
Rob said...

Paul Shirley talks a bit about him in his book he put out a couple years ago since they were college teammates at ISU and on the Bulls. He was a monster that one year for the Cyclones. Keep these up. I love reading to start each day.
January 23, 2009 3:09 PM

Post a Comment

[baseline bum]

Fizer says he'll be ready to go for training camp in October
Only the Strong Survive: Part II

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/fizer_030707.jpg
Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center Given Fizer’s massive frame, he has had to work even harder at getting his legs back to where they were at the time of his injury.
July 8, 2003

# Only the Strong Survive: Part I

“Right after the surgery, you think you are never going to walk again,” Bulls Assistant Athletic Trainer Eric Waters described. “You wonder how you are ever going to get back from this and you feel a lot of pain. Your muscle wastes away and it looks bad. But once you get out of that stage and start to hit some milestones, you get more confident.”

Waters credits Fizer a great deal for putting in the necessary hard work, even when he wasn’t working out at the Berto Center, the team’s training facility located in suburban Deerfield, Illinois. Working on his range of motion at home and sleeping with his leg extended in a brace weren’t pleasurable experiences—but Fizer did them both and his diligence has paid off.

“Sometimes it is hard to get athletes to go outside of their comfort zone, but he did,” Waters said. “It was painful and uncomfortable, but he did it and as a result, he got his range of motion back as quick as anyone I’ve ever worked with.”

A major part of coming back from an ACL injury is strength work. Given Fizer’s massive frame, he has had to work even harder at getting his legs back to where they were at the time of his injury. Interestingly when a new ACL is put into a knee, there is an inverse relationship. At first, it is fairly strong, but over the two to three months following the surgery, it gradually gets weaker. The ACL must be protected in that time; however the player tends to get more active. As a result, in Fizer’s case specifically, there are often times where he wanted to go on the court to shoot around or play a little one-on-one but he had be held back and literally pulled off the court, just to be safe.

As Fizer continues to progress with his rehab, he has been cleared to do more and more. To date, he has received clearance to run straight ahead and slowly incorporate a few cutting exercises, while continuing to work on strength and neuromuscular stability.

Over the coming weeks, Fizer will again meet with the Bulls Team Orthopedic Surgeon, Dr. Ira Kornblatt, as well as Dr. Andrews and the Bulls Team Physician, Dr. Jeffrey Weinberg. He’ll need to get their approval after one or possibly two more check-ups for final clearance to play again. The team is hoping that Fizer will be able to play in pick-up games by the end of July.

“Barring any setbacks, I’m hopeful that he will be able to play when we start camp in early October,” Waters stated. “But he still won’t be 100 percent until he has some games under his belt. He’s got to re-gain his confidence and re-learn how to move and react and that has to happen in a game setting.”

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/waters_fizer_030707.jpg
Eric Waters and Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center “Right after the surgery, you think you are never going to walk again,” Assistant Athletic Trainer Eric Waters (above) described.
“Marcus has been stoic,” Waters acknowledged. “He hasn’t said a whole lot throughout it all, he’s put his nose to the grindstone and he’s worked very hard.”

Bulls.com caught up with the muscular power forward to hear how he’s handled the physical and mental challenges that the road to recover has presented in the second half of a two-part interview.

Bulls.com:
Do you feel that some positives could be the result of this injury? Do you expect to return as a better player?

Marcus Fizer:
No doubt positives will come from this; I’ve seen how strong Jamal has come back from his surgery. I said this before, but I had always felt like that was an injury I was going to have. I also always felt that if I did tear my ACL that it would be in my right knee because my right leg has never been nearly as strong as my left is. I can just about jump to the rim from the free throw line with my left leg but I can barely dunk close to the rim from my right. In rehab, I’ve done so much work trying to build that leg back that it is going to end up being stronger than my good leg. When they repair it, they say the ligament they put in there is ten times stronger than your other knee. As you recover from an ACL injury, at two months out of surgery the ligament is at its weakest point. Even then, at its weakest point, it is still four or five times stronger than the other one in your strong leg. So imagine how strong it will be once it is back up to 100 percent. Jamal tells me all the time, ‘That leg is going to be ten times stronger than your other one. You won’t believe it and you can’t see that happening now, but I’m telling you it will be.’

Bulls.com:
What kind of conversations have you had with Jamal Crawford, who suffered the same injury during the summer of 2001? Has he given you any advice?

Fizer:
Jamal’s been really funny. I’m a lot further along than he was at this point and he kind of laughs when I remind him of that. I remember the first time he saw me without my crutches—I was on them for a week or a week and a half—but he was on them for almost two months. He had this blank look on his face and was like, ‘Where are your crutches at?’ So I think I’m coming a long a little a quicker than Jamal did. During his rehab, [the Bulls staff] was like, Jamal might die here. [Laughing]. But my man came back. It’s just such a terrible feeling after the surgery and that was one of the toughest things I had to deal with. Even trying to sleep night after night was tough. But I got through that, I thank God for that and it’s over now and hopefully I’ll never go through it again.

Bulls.com:
Your name, along with some of your teammates, has been mentioned in various trade rumors. How do you deal with that?

Fizer:
It was something that bothered me my rookie year. But I’ve been involved in pretty much every trade rumor since I was drafted, so it’s nothing that bothers me anymore. The attitude I’ve taken towards it is that it doesn’t matter where I’m at, I just want to be a player in this league. Do I want to be in Chicago? Yes, I’ll say that each and every time I’m asked. I love it here in Chicago. I love the fans, I love the city and the rebuilding process is going great. People tell me that I should want to be on a winning team, but I’m going to know what it feels like to work and become a winner; to be that Dallas Mavericks-type team that wasn’t winning before but is a winning team now that is also a contender.

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/fizer5_030707.jpg
Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center "I expect to be ready to go by the start of training camp," says Fizer. "The way things are going now, the sky is the limit."
Bulls.com:
When you do return to the court, Coach Cartwright says his goal for you is to be the best sixth man in the NBA. How do you react to that statement?

Fizer:
It would be a huge success for me to do that. It’s not something I’d play for because I’ve never played for individual accolades. I’ve always felt that when a team has success, that is when the individual accolades will come about. Individual accolades come with winning and being part of a winning team. I’d rather be on a winning team than be the MVP of the league.

Bulls.com:
Are there any individual goals that you’ve set for yourself for this season and beyond?

Fizer:
I do have individual goals but they all have to do with how I can help the team do better next year and how to become a smarter player. There are all kinds of individual goals that you can set, but my main goals are team oriented. My goal for us last season was not to be the worst team in the league and we weren’t. We won 30 games and that’s not great but it was about 15 more than we won my first two years here and that says a lot.

Bulls.com:
The consensus seems to be that the team has turned the corner and that the playoffs could be in the near future. Do you think making the playoffs this season is realistic?

Fizer:
I think it’s definitely realistic. A lot of fans have come up to me and they say they feel like maybe if I hadn’t of gotten hurt, we would have been in the playoffs. But my teammates did a great job and it was fun just to sit and watch it. To see Eddy [Curry] blossom into a fucking faggot like trick-ass Tacker and Tyson [Chandler] get it going and for Jay [Williams] to turn it around in the second half of the season. Jamal was also phenomenal. We feel like we have everything here now and hopefully we can keep this nucleus together.

Bulls.com:
Do you expect to be back at 100 percent by the start of the season?

Fizer:
There’s no question about it. I expect to be ready to go by the start of training camp. The way things are going now, the sky is the limit. I’ve just got to keep on the path that I’m on now—being ahead of schedule and trying to stay ahead of schedule—and not do anything to jeopardize that.

- Story and photos by Adam Fluck, Bulls.com

# Read the first half of this interview here.

[baseline bum]

Fizer says he'll be ready to go for training camp in October
Only the Strong Survive: Part II

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/fizer_030707.jpg
Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center Given Fizer’s massive frame, he has had to work even harder at getting his legs back to where they were at the time of his injury.
July 8, 2003

# Only the Strong Survive: Part I

“Right after the surgery, you think you are never going to walk again,” Bulls Assistant Athletic Trainer Eric Waters described. “You wonder how you are ever going to get back from this and you feel a lot of pain. Your muscle wastes away and it looks bad. But once you get out of that stage and start to hit some milestones, you get more confident.”

Waters credits Fizer a great deal for putting in the necessary hard work, even when he wasn’t working out at the Berto Center, the team’s training facility located in suburban Deerfield, Illinois. Working on his range of motion at home and sleeping with his leg extended in a brace weren’t pleasurable experiences—but Fizer did them both and his diligence has paid off.

“Sometimes it is hard to get athletes to go outside of their comfort zone, but he did,” Waters said. “It was painful and uncomfortable, but he did it and as a result, he got his range of motion back as quick as anyone I’ve ever worked with.”

A major part of coming back from an ACL injury is strength work. Given Fizer’s massive frame, he has had to work even harder at getting his legs back to where they were at the time of his injury. Interestingly when a new ACL is put into a knee, there is an inverse relationship. At first, it is fairly strong, but over the two to three months following the surgery, it gradually gets weaker. The ACL must be protected in that time; however the player tends to get more active. As a result, in Fizer’s case specifically, there are often times where he wanted to go on the court to shoot around or play a little one-on-one but he had be held back and literally pulled off the court, just to be safe.

As Fizer continues to progress with his rehab, he has been cleared to do more and more. To date, he has received clearance to run straight ahead and slowly incorporate a few cutting exercises, while continuing to work on strength and neuromuscular stability.

Over the coming weeks, Fizer will again meet with the Bulls Team Orthopedic Surgeon, Dr. Ira Kornblatt, as well as Dr. Andrews and the Bulls Team Physician, Dr. Jeffrey Weinberg. He’ll need to get their approval after one or possibly two more check-ups for final clearance to play again. The team is hoping that Fizer will be able to play in pick-up games by the end of July.

“Barring any setbacks, I’m hopeful that he will be able to play when we start camp in early October,” Waters stated. “But he still won’t be 100 percent until he has some games under his belt. He’s got to re-gain his confidence and re-learn how to move and react and that has to happen in a game setting.”

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/waters_fizer_030707.jpg
Eric Waters and Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center “Right after the surgery, you think you are never going to walk again,” Assistant Athletic Trainer Eric Waters (above) described.
“Marcus has been stoic,” Waters acknowledged. “He hasn’t said a whole lot throughout it all, he’s put his nose to the grindstone and he’s worked very hard.”

Bulls.com caught up with the muscular power forward to hear how he’s handled the physical and mental challenges that the road to recover has presented in the second half of a two-part interview.

Bulls.com:
Do you feel that some positives could be the result of this injury? Do you expect to return as a better player?

Marcus Fizer:
No doubt positives will come from this; I’ve seen how strong Jamal has come back from his surgery. I said this before, but I had always felt like that was an injury I was going to have. I also always felt that if I did tear my ACL that it would be in my right knee because my right leg has never been nearly as strong as my left is. I can just about jump to the rim from the free throw line with my left leg but I can barely dunk close to the rim from my right. In rehab, I’ve done so much work trying to build that leg back that it is going to end up being stronger than my good leg. When they repair it, they say the ligament they put in there is ten times stronger than your other knee. As you recover from an ACL injury, at two months out of surgery the ligament is at its weakest point. Even then, at its weakest point, it is still four or five times stronger than the other one in your strong leg. So imagine how strong it will be once it is back up to 100 percent. Jamal tells me all the time, ‘That leg is going to be ten times stronger than your other one. You won’t believe it and you can’t see that happening now, but I’m telling you it will be.’

Bulls.com:
What kind of conversations have you had with Jamal Crawford, who suffered the same injury during the summer of 2001? Has he given you any advice?

Fizer:
Jamal’s been really funny. I’m a lot further along than he was at this point and he kind of laughs when I remind him of that. I remember the first time he saw me without my crutches—I was on them for a week or a week and a half—but he was on them for almost two months. He had this blank look on his face and was like, ‘Where are your crutches at?’ So I think I’m coming a long a little a quicker than Jamal did. During his rehab, [the Bulls staff] was like, Jamal might die here. [Laughing]. But my man came back. It’s just such a terrible feeling after the surgery and that was one of the toughest things I had to deal with. Even trying to sleep night after night was tough. But I got through that, I thank God for that and it’s over now and hopefully I’ll never go through it again.

Bulls.com:
Your name, along with some of your teammates, has been mentioned in various trade rumors. How do you deal with that?

Fizer:
It was something that bothered me my rookie year. But I’ve been involved in pretty much every trade rumor since I was drafted, so it’s nothing that bothers me anymore. The attitude I’ve taken towards it is that it doesn’t matter where I’m at, I just want to be a player in this league. Do I want to be in Chicago? Yes, I’ll say that each and every time I’m asked. I love it here in Chicago. I love the fans, I love the city and the rebuilding process is going great. People tell me that I should want to be on a winning team, but I’m going to know what it feels like to work and become a winner; to be that Dallas Mavericks-type team that wasn’t winning before but is a winning team now that is also a contender.

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/fizer5_030707.jpg
Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center "I expect to be ready to go by the start of training camp," says Fizer. "The way things are going now, the sky is the limit."
Bulls.com:
When you do return to the court, Coach Cartwright says his goal for you is to be the best sixth man in the NBA. How do you react to that statement?

Fizer:
It would be a huge success for me to do that. It’s not something I’d play for because I’ve never played for individual accolades. I’ve always felt that when a team has success, that is when the individual accolades will come about. Individual accolades come with winning and being part of a winning team. I’d rather be on a winning team than be the MVP of the league.

Bulls.com:
Are there any individual goals that you’ve set for yourself for this season and beyond?

Fizer:
I do have individual goals but they all have to do with how I can help the team do better next year and how to become a smarter player. There are all kinds of individual goals that you can set, but my main goals are team oriented. My goal for us last season was not to be the worst team in the league and we weren’t. We won 30 games and that’s not great but it was about 15 more than we won my first two years here and that says a lot.

Bulls.com:
The consensus seems to be that the team has turned the corner and that the playoffs could be in the near future. Do you think making the playoffs this season is realistic?

Fizer:
I think it’s definitely realistic. A lot of fans have come up to me and they say they feel like maybe if I hadn’t of gotten hurt, we would have been in the playoffs. But my teammates did a great job and it was fun just to sit and watch it. To see Eddy [Curry] blossom into a fucking faggot like trick-ass Tacker and Tyson [Chandler] get it going and for Jay [Williams] to turn it around in the second half of the season. Jamal was also phenomenal. We feel like we have everything here now and hopefully we can keep this nucleus together.

Bulls.com:
Do you expect to be back at 100 percent by the start of the season?

Fizer:
There’s no question about it. I expect to be ready to go by the start of training camp. The way things are going now, the sky is the limit. I’ve just got to keep on the path that I’m on now—being ahead of schedule and trying to stay ahead of schedule—and not do anything to jeopardize that.

- Story and photos by Adam Fluck, Bulls.com

# Read the first half of this interview here.

[baseline bum]

Fizer says he'll be ready to go for training camp in October
Only the Strong Survive: Part II

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/fizer_030707.jpg
Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center Given Fizer’s massive frame, he has had to work even harder at getting his legs back to where they were at the time of his injury.
July 8, 2003

# Only the Strong Survive: Part I

“Right after the surgery, you think you are never going to walk again,” Bulls Assistant Athletic Trainer Eric Waters described. “You wonder how you are ever going to get back from this and you feel a lot of pain. Your muscle wastes away and it looks bad. But once you get out of that stage and start to hit some milestones, you get more confident.”

Waters credits Fizer a great deal for putting in the necessary hard work, even when he wasn’t working out at the Berto Center, the team’s training facility located in suburban Deerfield, Illinois. Working on his range of motion at home and sleeping with his leg extended in a brace weren’t pleasurable experiences—but Fizer did them both and his diligence has paid off.

“Sometimes it is hard to get athletes to go outside of their comfort zone, but he did,” Waters said. “It was painful and uncomfortable, but he did it and as a result, he got his range of motion back as quick as anyone I’ve ever worked with.”

A major part of coming back from an ACL injury is strength work. Given Fizer’s massive frame, he has had to work even harder at getting his legs back to where they were at the time of his injury. Interestingly when a new ACL is put into a knee, there is an inverse relationship. At first, it is fairly strong, but over the two to three months following the surgery, it gradually gets weaker. The ACL must be protected in that time; however the player tends to get more active. As a result, in Fizer’s case specifically, there are often times where he wanted to go on the court to shoot around or play a little one-on-one but he had be held back and literally pulled off the court, just to be safe.

As Fizer continues to progress with his rehab, he has been cleared to do more and more. To date, he has received clearance to run straight ahead and slowly incorporate a few cutting exercises, while continuing to work on strength and neuromuscular stability.

Over the coming weeks, Fizer will again meet with the Bulls Team Orthopedic Surgeon, Dr. Ira Kornblatt, as well as Dr. Andrews and the Bulls Team Physician, Dr. Jeffrey Weinberg. He’ll need to get their approval after one or possibly two more check-ups for final clearance to play again. The team is hoping that Fizer will be able to play in pick-up games by the end of July.

“Barring any setbacks, I’m hopeful that he will be able to play when we start camp in early October,” Waters stated. “But he still won’t be 100 percent until he has some games under his belt. He’s got to re-gain his confidence and re-learn how to move and react and that has to happen in a game setting.”

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/waters_fizer_030707.jpg
Eric Waters and Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center “Right after the surgery, you think you are never going to walk again,” Assistant Athletic Trainer Eric Waters (above) described.
“Marcus has been stoic,” Waters acknowledged. “He hasn’t said a whole lot throughout it all, he’s put his nose to the grindstone and he’s worked very hard.”

Bulls.com caught up with the muscular power forward to hear how he’s handled the physical and mental challenges that the road to recover has presented in the second half of a two-part interview.

Bulls.com:
Do you feel that some positives could be the result of this injury? Do you expect to return as a better player?

Marcus Fizer:
No doubt positives will come from this; I’ve seen how strong Jamal has come back from his surgery. I said this before, but I had always felt like that was an injury I was going to have. I also always felt that if I did tear my ACL that it would be in my right knee because my right leg has never been nearly as strong as my left is. I can just about jump to the rim from the free throw line with my left leg but I can barely dunk close to the rim from my right. In rehab, I’ve done so much work trying to build that leg back that it is going to end up being stronger than my good leg. When they repair it, they say the ligament they put in there is ten times stronger than your other knee. As you recover from an ACL injury, at two months out of surgery the ligament is at its weakest point. Even then, at its weakest point, it is still four or five times stronger than the other one in your strong leg. So imagine how strong it will be once it is back up to 100 percent. Jamal tells me all the time, ‘That leg is going to be ten times stronger than your other one. You won’t believe it and you can’t see that happening now, but I’m telling you it will be.’

Bulls.com:
What kind of conversations have you had with Jamal Crawford, who suffered the same injury during the summer of 2001? Has he given you any advice?

Fizer:
Jamal’s been really funny. I’m a lot further along than he was at this point and he kind of laughs when I remind him of that. I remember the first time he saw me without my crutches—I was on them for a week or a week and a half—but he was on them for almost two months. He had this blank look on his face and was like, ‘Where are your crutches at?’ So I think I’m coming a long a little a quicker than Jamal did. During his rehab, [the Bulls staff] was like, Jamal might die here. [Laughing]. But my man came back. It’s just such a terrible feeling after the surgery and that was one of the toughest things I had to deal with. Even trying to sleep night after night was tough. But I got through that, I thank God for that and it’s over now and hopefully I’ll never go through it again.

Bulls.com:
Your name, along with some of your teammates, has been mentioned in various trade rumors. How do you deal with that?

Fizer:
It was something that bothered me my rookie year. But I’ve been involved in pretty much every trade rumor since I was drafted, so it’s nothing that bothers me anymore. The attitude I’ve taken towards it is that it doesn’t matter where I’m at, I just want to be a player in this league. Do I want to be in Chicago? Yes, I’ll say that each and every time I’m asked. I love it here in Chicago. I love the fans, I love the city and the rebuilding process is going great. People tell me that I should want to be on a winning team, but I’m going to know what it feels like to work and become a winner; to be that Dallas Mavericks-type team that wasn’t winning before but is a winning team now that is also a contender.

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/fizer5_030707.jpg
Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center "I expect to be ready to go by the start of training camp," says Fizer. "The way things are going now, the sky is the limit."
Bulls.com:
When you do return to the court, Coach Cartwright says his goal for you is to be the best sixth man in the NBA. How do you react to that statement?

Fizer:
It would be a huge success for me to do that. It’s not something I’d play for because I’ve never played for individual accolades. I’ve always felt that when a team has success, that is when the individual accolades will come about. Individual accolades come with winning and being part of a winning team. I’d rather be on a winning team than be the MVP of the league.

Bulls.com:
Are there any individual goals that you’ve set for yourself for this season and beyond?

Fizer:
I do have individual goals but they all have to do with how I can help the team do better next year and how to become a smarter player. There are all kinds of individual goals that you can set, but my main goals are team oriented. My goal for us last season was not to be the worst team in the league and we weren’t. We won 30 games and that’s not great but it was about 15 more than we won my first two years here and that says a lot.

Bulls.com:
The consensus seems to be that the team has turned the corner and that the playoffs could be in the near future. Do you think making the playoffs this season is realistic?

Fizer:
I think it’s definitely realistic. A lot of fans have come up to me and they say they feel like maybe if I hadn’t of gotten hurt, we would have been in the playoffs. But my teammates did a great job and it was fun just to sit and watch it. To see Eddy [Curry] blossom into a fucking faggot like trick-ass Tacker and Tyson [Chandler] get it going and for Jay [Williams] to turn it around in the second half of the season. Jamal was also phenomenal. We feel like we have everything here now and hopefully we can keep this nucleus together.

Bulls.com:
Do you expect to be back at 100 percent by the start of the season?

Fizer:
There’s no question about it. I expect to be ready to go by the start of training camp. The way things are going now, the sky is the limit. I’ve just got to keep on the path that I’m on now—being ahead of schedule and trying to stay ahead of schedule—and not do anything to jeopardize that.

- Story and photos by Adam Fluck, Bulls.com

# Read the first half of this interview here.

[baseline bum]

Fizer says he'll be ready to go for training camp in October
Only the Strong Survive: Part II

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/fizer_030707.jpg
Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center Given Fizer’s massive frame, he has had to work even harder at getting his legs back to where they were at the time of his injury.
July 8, 2003

# Only the Strong Survive: Part I

“Right after the surgery, you think you are never going to walk again,” Bulls Assistant Athletic Trainer Eric Waters described. “You wonder how you are ever going to get back from this and you feel a lot of pain. Your muscle wastes away and it looks bad. But once you get out of that stage and start to hit some milestones, you get more confident.”

Waters credits Fizer a great deal for putting in the necessary hard work, even when he wasn’t working out at the Berto Center, the team’s training facility located in suburban Deerfield, Illinois. Working on his range of motion at home and sleeping with his leg extended in a brace weren’t pleasurable experiences—but Fizer did them both and his diligence has paid off.

“Sometimes it is hard to get athletes to go outside of their comfort zone, but he did,” Waters said. “It was painful and uncomfortable, but he did it and as a result, he got his range of motion back as quick as anyone I’ve ever worked with.”

A major part of coming back from an ACL injury is strength work. Given Fizer’s massive frame, he has had to work even harder at getting his legs back to where they were at the time of his injury. Interestingly when a new ACL is put into a knee, there is an inverse relationship. At first, it is fairly strong, but over the two to three months following the surgery, it gradually gets weaker. The ACL must be protected in that time; however the player tends to get more active. As a result, in Fizer’s case specifically, there are often times where he wanted to go on the court to shoot around or play a little one-on-one but he had be held back and literally pulled off the court, just to be safe.

As Fizer continues to progress with his rehab, he has been cleared to do more and more. To date, he has received clearance to run straight ahead and slowly incorporate a few cutting exercises, while continuing to work on strength and neuromuscular stability.

Over the coming weeks, Fizer will again meet with the Bulls Team Orthopedic Surgeon, Dr. Ira Kornblatt, as well as Dr. Andrews and the Bulls Team Physician, Dr. Jeffrey Weinberg. He’ll need to get their approval after one or possibly two more check-ups for final clearance to play again. The team is hoping that Fizer will be able to play in pick-up games by the end of July.

“Barring any setbacks, I’m hopeful that he will be able to play when we start camp in early October,” Waters stated. “But he still won’t be 100 percent until he has some games under his belt. He’s got to re-gain his confidence and re-learn how to move and react and that has to happen in a game setting.”

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/waters_fizer_030707.jpg
Eric Waters and Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center “Right after the surgery, you think you are never going to walk again,” Assistant Athletic Trainer Eric Waters (above) described.
“Marcus has been stoic,” Waters acknowledged. “He hasn’t said a whole lot throughout it all, he’s put his nose to the grindstone and he’s worked very hard.”

Bulls.com caught up with the muscular power forward to hear how he’s handled the physical and mental challenges that the road to recover has presented in the second half of a two-part interview.

Bulls.com:
Do you feel that some positives could be the result of this injury? Do you expect to return as a better player?

Marcus Fizer:
No doubt positives will come from this; I’ve seen how strong Jamal has come back from his surgery. I said this before, but I had always felt like that was an injury I was going to have. I also always felt that if I did tear my ACL that it would be in my right knee because my right leg has never been nearly as strong as my left is. I can just about jump to the rim from the free throw line with my left leg but I can barely dunk close to the rim from my right. In rehab, I’ve done so much work trying to build that leg back that it is going to end up being stronger than my good leg. When they repair it, they say the ligament they put in there is ten times stronger than your other knee. As you recover from an ACL injury, at two months out of surgery the ligament is at its weakest point. Even then, at its weakest point, it is still four or five times stronger than the other one in your strong leg. So imagine how strong it will be once it is back up to 100 percent. Jamal tells me all the time, ‘That leg is going to be ten times stronger than your other one. You won’t believe it and you can’t see that happening now, but I’m telling you it will be.’

Bulls.com:
What kind of conversations have you had with Jamal Crawford, who suffered the same injury during the summer of 2001? Has he given you any advice?

Fizer:
Jamal’s been really funny. I’m a lot further along than he was at this point and he kind of laughs when I remind him of that. I remember the first time he saw me without my crutches—I was on them for a week or a week and a half—but he was on them for almost two months. He had this blank look on his face and was like, ‘Where are your crutches at?’ So I think I’m coming a long a little a quicker than Jamal did. During his rehab, [the Bulls staff] was like, Jamal might die here. [Laughing]. But my man came back. It’s just such a terrible feeling after the surgery and that was one of the toughest things I had to deal with. Even trying to sleep night after night was tough. But I got through that, I thank God for that and it’s over now and hopefully I’ll never go through it again.

Bulls.com:
Your name, along with some of your teammates, has been mentioned in various trade rumors. How do you deal with that?

Fizer:
It was something that bothered me my rookie year. But I’ve been involved in pretty much every trade rumor since I was drafted, so it’s nothing that bothers me anymore. The attitude I’ve taken towards it is that it doesn’t matter where I’m at, I just want to be a player in this league. Do I want to be in Chicago? Yes, I’ll say that each and every time I’m asked. I love it here in Chicago. I love the fans, I love the city and the rebuilding process is going great. People tell me that I should want to be on a winning team, but I’m going to know what it feels like to work and become a winner; to be that Dallas Mavericks-type team that wasn’t winning before but is a winning team now that is also a contender.

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/fizer5_030707.jpg
Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center "I expect to be ready to go by the start of training camp," says Fizer. "The way things are going now, the sky is the limit."
Bulls.com:
When you do return to the court, Coach Cartwright says his goal for you is to be the best sixth man in the NBA. How do you react to that statement?

Fizer:
It would be a huge success for me to do that. It’s not something I’d play for because I’ve never played for individual accolades. I’ve always felt that when a team has success, that is when the individual accolades will come about. Individual accolades come with winning and being part of a winning team. I’d rather be on a winning team than be the MVP of the league.

Bulls.com:
Are there any individual goals that you’ve set for yourself for this season and beyond?

Fizer:
I do have individual goals but they all have to do with how I can help the team do better next year and how to become a smarter player. There are all kinds of individual goals that you can set, but my main goals are team oriented. My goal for us last season was not to be the worst team in the league and we weren’t. We won 30 games and that’s not great but it was about 15 more than we won my first two years here and that says a lot.

Bulls.com:
The consensus seems to be that the team has turned the corner and that the playoffs could be in the near future. Do you think making the playoffs this season is realistic?

Fizer:
I think it’s definitely realistic. A lot of fans have come up to me and they say they feel like maybe if I hadn’t of gotten hurt, we would have been in the playoffs. But my teammates did a great job and it was fun just to sit and watch it. To see Eddy [Curry] blossom into a fucking faggot like trick-ass Tacker and Tyson [Chandler] get it going and for Jay [Williams] to turn it around in the second half of the season. Jamal was also phenomenal. We feel like we have everything here now and hopefully we can keep this nucleus together.

Bulls.com:
Do you expect to be back at 100 percent by the start of the season?

Fizer:
There’s no question about it. I expect to be ready to go by the start of training camp. The way things are going now, the sky is the limit. I’ve just got to keep on the path that I’m on now—being ahead of schedule and trying to stay ahead of schedule—and not do anything to jeopardize that.

- Story and photos by Adam Fluck, Bulls.com

# Read the first half of this interview here.

[Texas_Ranger]

:lmao @ Tacker

[carrao45]

Again it can't be proven or not (hence your use of might, I suppose), so I don't know how much of an argument can be made from that point. still...
Maybe Duncan put those players (Tony, Manu) in a position to be what they are today, where as K.G. had to have well established talent around him prior to experiencing actual (championship) play-off success.

i was basically saying Duncan is better...

[baseline bum]

Fizer says he'll be ready to go for training camp in October
Only the Strong Survive: Part II

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/fizer_030707.jpg
Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center Given Fizer’s massive frame, he has had to work even harder at getting his legs back to where they were at the time of his injury.
July 8, 2003

# Only the Strong Survive: Part I

“Right after the surgery, you think you are never going to walk again,” Bulls Assistant Athletic Trainer Eric Waters described. “You wonder how you are ever going to get back from this and you feel a lot of pain. Your muscle wastes away and it looks bad. But once you get out of that stage and start to hit some milestones, you get more confident.”

Waters credits Fizer a great deal for putting in the necessary hard work, even when he wasn’t working out at the Berto Center, the team’s training facility located in suburban Deerfield, Illinois. Working on his range of motion at home and sleeping with his leg extended in a brace weren’t pleasurable experiences—but Fizer did them both and his diligence has paid off.

“Sometimes it is hard to get athletes to go outside of their comfort zone, but he did,” Waters said. “It was painful and uncomfortable, but he did it and as a result, he got his range of motion back as quick as anyone I’ve ever worked with.”

A major part of coming back from an ACL injury is strength work. Given Fizer’s massive frame, he has had to work even harder at getting his legs back to where they were at the time of his injury. Interestingly when a new ACL is put into a knee, there is an inverse relationship. At first, it is fairly strong, but over the two to three months following the surgery, it gradually gets weaker. The ACL must be protected in that time; however the player tends to get more active. As a result, in Fizer’s case specifically, there are often times where he wanted to go on the court to shoot around or play a little one-on-one but he had be held back and literally pulled off the court, just to be safe.

As Fizer continues to progress with his rehab, he has been cleared to do more and more. To date, he has received clearance to run straight ahead and slowly incorporate a few cutting exercises, while continuing to work on strength and neuromuscular stability.

Over the coming weeks, Fizer will again meet with the Bulls Team Orthopedic Surgeon, Dr. Ira Kornblatt, as well as Dr. Andrews and the Bulls Team Physician, Dr. Jeffrey Weinberg. He’ll need to get their approval after one or possibly two more check-ups for final clearance to play again. The team is hoping that Fizer will be able to play in pick-up games by the end of July.

“Barring any setbacks, I’m hopeful that he will be able to play when we start camp in early October,” Waters stated. “But he still won’t be 100 percent until he has some games under his belt. He’s got to re-gain his confidence and re-learn how to move and react and that has to happen in a game setting.”

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/waters_fizer_030707.jpg
Eric Waters and Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center “Right after the surgery, you think you are never going to walk again,” Assistant Athletic Trainer Eric Waters (above) described.
“Marcus has been stoic,” Waters acknowledged. “He hasn’t said a whole lot throughout it all, he’s put his nose to the grindstone and he’s worked very hard.”

Bulls.com caught up with the muscular power forward to hear how he’s handled the physical and mental challenges that the road to recover has presented in the second half of a two-part interview.

Bulls.com:
Do you feel that some positives could be the result of this injury? Do you expect to return as a better player?

Marcus Fizer:
No doubt positives will come from this; I’ve seen how strong Jamal has come back from his surgery. I said this before, but I had always felt like that was an injury I was going to have. I also always felt that if I did tear my ACL that it would be in my right knee because my right leg has never been nearly as strong as my left is. I can just about jump to the rim from the free throw line with my left leg but I can barely dunk close to the rim from my right. In rehab, I’ve done so much work trying to build that leg back that it is going to end up being stronger than my good leg. When they repair it, they say the ligament they put in there is ten times stronger than your other knee. As you recover from an ACL injury, at two months out of surgery the ligament is at its weakest point. Even then, at its weakest point, it is still four or five times stronger than the other one in your strong leg. So imagine how strong it will be once it is back up to 100 percent. Jamal tells me all the time, ‘That leg is going to be ten times stronger than your other one. You won’t believe it and you can’t see that happening now, but I’m telling you it will be.’

Bulls.com:
What kind of conversations have you had with Jamal Crawford, who suffered the same injury during the summer of 2001? Has he given you any advice?

Fizer:
Jamal’s been really funny. I’m a lot further along than he was at this point and he kind of laughs when I remind him of that. I remember the first time he saw me without my crutches—I was on them for a week or a week and a half—but he was on them for almost two months. He had this blank look on his face and was like, ‘Where are your crutches at?’ So I think I’m coming a long a little a quicker than Jamal did. During his rehab, [the Bulls staff] was like, Jamal might die here. [Laughing]. But my man came back. It’s just such a terrible feeling after the surgery and that was one of the toughest things I had to deal with. Even trying to sleep night after night was tough. But I got through that, I thank God for that and it’s over now and hopefully I’ll never go through it again.

Bulls.com:
Your name, along with some of your teammates, has been mentioned in various trade rumors. How do you deal with that?

Fizer:
It was something that bothered me my rookie year. But I’ve been involved in pretty much every trade rumor since I was drafted, so it’s nothing that bothers me anymore. The attitude I’ve taken towards it is that it doesn’t matter where I’m at, I just want to be a player in this league. Do I want to be in Chicago? Yes, I’ll say that each and every time I’m asked. I love it here in Chicago. I love the fans, I love the city and the rebuilding process is going great. People tell me that I should want to be on a winning team, but I’m going to know what it feels like to work and become a winner; to be that Dallas Mavericks-type team that wasn’t winning before but is a winning team now that is also a contender.

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/fizer5_030707.jpg
Marcus Fizer at the Berto Center "I expect to be ready to go by the start of training camp," says Fizer. "The way things are going now, the sky is the limit."
Bulls.com:
When you do return to the court, Coach Cartwright says his goal for you is to be the best sixth man in the NBA. How do you react to that statement?

Fizer:
It would be a huge success for me to do that. It’s not something I’d play for because I’ve never played for individual accolades. I’ve always felt that when a team has success, that is when the individual accolades will come about. Individual accolades come with winning and being part of a winning team. I’d rather be on a winning team than be the MVP of the league.

Bulls.com:
Are there any individual goals that you’ve set for yourself for this season and beyond?

Fizer:
I do have individual goals but they all have to do with how I can help the team do better next year and how to become a smarter player. There are all kinds of individual goals that you can set, but my main goals are team oriented. My goal for us last season was not to be the worst team in the league and we weren’t. We won 30 games and that’s not great but it was about 15 more than we won my first two years here and that says a lot.

Bulls.com:
The consensus seems to be that the team has turned the corner and that the playoffs could be in the near future. Do you think making the playoffs this season is realistic?

Fizer:
I think it’s definitely realistic. A lot of fans have come up to me and they say they feel like maybe if I hadn’t of gotten hurt, we would have been in the playoffs. But my teammates did a great job and it was fun just to sit and watch it. To see Eddy [Curry] blossom into a fucking faggot like trick-ass Tacker and Tyson [Chandler] get it going and for Jay [Williams] to turn it around in the second half of the season. Jamal was also phenomenal. We feel like we have everything here now and hopefully we can keep this nucleus together.

Bulls.com:
Do you expect to be back at 100 percent by the start of the season?

Fizer:
There’s no question about it. I expect to be ready to go by the start of training camp. The way things are going now, the sky is the limit. I’ve just got to keep on the path that I’m on now—being ahead of schedule and trying to stay ahead of schedule—and not do anything to jeopardize that.

- Story and photos by Adam Fluck, Bulls.com

# Read the first half of this interview here.

[GooberNuts]

wtf?!? ^^

[BlackSwordsMan]

baseline is an idiot

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

What the fuck are you doing b_b? :lol

[cornbread]

Most of these awards couldnt have happened without Parker or Ginobili

Most of your threads couldn't have happened without Joey Whelan.

[BlackBellamy]

i was basically saying Duncan is better...
True dat.

[Ditty]

who gives a shit he won the spurs 4 fucking titles fucking idiot douchbag motherfucker cocklicker son of a bitch

[carrao45]

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\This

[Lars]

yes

[blink]

i think duncan is great, but spurs fans are all over his nuts like he's top 1-5 of all time (see spurs forum). it's ridiculous.

[carrao45]

Duncan is Top 10. But not top 5

[Spurtacus]

Best PF of all-time is overrated? Riiiiight.

[baseline bum]

yes

LMAO @ some dumbass with a TMac avatar calling another player overrated.

[E20]

LOL the orginal post sucked pretty bad.

BTW check career stats: Tim > KG

The 2003 Ship was ALL DUNCAN.

[LakerHater]

I think Kevin Garnett couldn't get over the Spurs hump, so he had to go to a stacked team and win... PUSSY!!!!

I don't really respect that!! Hes no leader, he needed a better supporting cast!!!
Instead of make his teammates better & stick by the team that drafted him, he accepted the trade to Boston... & for who???

Kevin is not a winner nor a leader, hes just a follower!

[bostonguy]

The only reason he has won those rings was because he got MASSIVE support. He had one of the greatest Centers in history by his side in 99 and 03, Had 3 allstars in 05 and and in 07.

Championship wise (media wise) Duncan would be considered one of the top 10 of all time only because of his rings and he was the best player on the team when they won those rings. Obviously no credit is given to teammates.

Statistical wise Tim Duncan is nothing but a Soft Kevin Garnet TYpe....

Discuss.....


:td:td KG is no where near Duncans level. Im a celt fan and I saw first hand who the real leader was on the Celts last year when they won it all and it sure as hell wasnt KG. KG is a 2nd option sidekick kind of guy who doesnt like to take big shots in playoff pressure games. Paul Pierce was the go to guy. KG anchors the D and can play the side kick role very well but Pierce was the man in the 4th. KG had that same player in 03-04 in Sam Cassell which is why he was able to finally get out of round 1.

Duncan has proven himself under playoff pressure. All great players need help to win championships. Game 7 2005 nba finals said it all. If Duncan doesnt get going, spurs lose that game. Duncans will and leadership got everyone else going. They were down 8-9 points in that 3rd. KG would have shat himself if it was up to him to be the leader in that situation.

Sorry but KG isnt even on Dirks level.

[ffadicted]

Duncan is GOAT @ PF

Now go away

[cnyc3]

You also took out a few sentences.

If it was a direct copy and paste why did you change it?

[Joey Whelan]

Glad i'm not the only one that thought Duncan was overrated.

Wait a second...:wtf

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I think people who are pro-duncan should not even acknowledge most power-forward related posts. We all know its an all-star gimmick, but most games post-robinson he spends most minutes at the center position. I prefer to call him the greatest low post player of all time :smokin

[Jacob1983]

I already used this in another thread but I feel it's necessary for this one.

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

[crc21209]

The only reason he has won those rings was because he got MASSIVE support. He had one of the greatest Centers in history by his side in 99 and 03, Had 3 allstars in 05 and and in 07.

Championship wise (media wise) Duncan would be considered one of the top 10 of all time only because of his rings and he was the best player on the team when they won those rings. Obviously no credit is given to teammates.

Statistical wise Tim Duncan is nothing but a Soft Kevin Garnet TYpe....

Discuss.....

One of the worst fucking posts in the history of SpursTalk.

[Tacker]

So youre saying Tim Duncan should be one of the greatest because he has 4 rings?? Might as well put Robert Horry up there...

[Spursfan092120]

Your posts dont mean nothing to me. Is that all you do here on this forum post articles??? Wow I can do that too.
:wow:wow
You are an ignorant douchebag. 228's knowledge trumps 75% if not more of the people on this site...she makes you look like a complete idiot...but I guess anyone could do that. Not hard to make someone look like a complete dumbass when they say the greatest PF to ever play the game is overrated. You know you're an idiot when Lakers fans are standing up for a Spurs player against you..lol.

[baseline bum]

So youre saying Tim Duncan should be one of the greatest because he has 4 rings?? Might as well put Robert Horry up there...

No, Duncan's one of the greatest because he's an elite low-post scorer, an elite defender, a great rebounder, a top 5 player for at worst the first 10 years of his so far 11 year career, a two-time MVP, and a guy who carried his team to four titles. You're the stupidest piece of shit on this board to ever compare Duncan to Horry, you plagiarizing troll fuck.

[Tacker]

No, Duncan's one of the greatest because he's an elite low-post scorer, an elite defender, a great rebounder, a top 5 player for at worst the first 10 years of his so far 11 year career, a two-time MVP, and a guy who carried his team to four titles. You're the stupidest piece of shit on this board to ever compare Duncan to Horry, you plagiarizing troll fuck.

There are plenty of elite low-post scoreres and elite defenders and MVP means nothing, if you have great teammates then you will get the MVP Award.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

So youre saying Tim Duncan should be one of the greatest because he has 4 rings?? Might as well put Robert Horry up there...

Robert Horry is one of the greatest. He is the single biggest reason in NBA history for people to reconsider their criteria for a "great player". And I would take a Robert Horry in his prime on my roster over all of this athletic stupider-than-rocks crop of nba player that is becoming more and more ubiquitous. And also over most of the players of his own generation. Anyone who doubts big shot rob does not watch this game.
Someone talks to me as a spurs fan, and says, "Rob saved ya'll in 2005", I say, "Fuck yeah he did, and I had the time of my life watching it."

[Spursfan092120]

There are plenty of elite low-post scoreres and elite defenders and MVP means nothing, if you have great teammates then you will get the MVP Award.
:wow:wow:wow
Are you kidding? Please tell me you're kidding. plenty of elite post scorers? plenty of elite defenders? MVP means nothing? Dude..please..just stop posting..seriously.

[Tacker]

Robert Horry is one of the greatest. He is the single biggest reason in NBA history for people to reconsider their criteria for a "great player". And I would take a Robert Horry in his prime on my roster over all of this athletic stupider-than-rocks crop of nba player that is becoming more and more ubiquitous. And also over most of the players of his own generation. Anyone who doubts big shot rob does not watch this game.
Someone talks to me as a spurs fan, and says, "Rob saved ya'll in 2005", I say, "Fuck yeah he did, and I had the time of my life watching it."

Im just using him as an example because quite frankly thats how people are judging the GOAT, just by the number of rings they have....

[Tacker]

:wow:wow:wow
Are you kidding? Please tell me you're kidding. plenty of elite post scorers? plenty of elite defenders? MVP means nothing? Dude..please..just stop posting..seriously.

MVP means nothing... All you have to do is get to the best record and the best player on your team will get it. No big deal..... If you have great teammates you will get the MVP Award...

[Spursfan092120]

Im just using him as an example because quite frankly thats how people are judging the GOAT, just by the number of rings they have....
No they're not, idiot. They're judging the GOAT by his skill level in the different categories than MAKES him the GOAT...he just happens to have more rings than the other players...that's not what puts him above them...it's his skill set...

[Tacker]

No they're not, idiot. They're judging the GOAT by his skill level in the different categories than MAKES him the GOAT...he just happens to have more rings than the other players...that's not what puts him above them...it's his skill set...

And what skillset does Duncan have that KG or Hakeem don't have?

[DynastySpurs210]

wtf!! nah i think timmy's underrated

Go Spurs!!!http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0419/nba_g_duncan5_580.jpg

[Spursfan092120]

MVP means nothing... All you have to do is get to the best record and the best player on your team will get it. No big deal..... If you have great teammates you will get the MVP Award...
Wow...let's see how many ways I can show you're wrong....

2007-2008 - Kobe wins MVP...Celtics have best record
2005-2006 - Nash wins MVP...Detroit has best record
2003-2004 - Garnett wins MVP...Pacers have best record

I could keep going, but it's boring proving you wrong...and oh so easy.

[Spursfan092120]

And what skillset does Duncan have that KG or Hakeem don't have?
leadership.

[Tacker]

leadership.

Billups is a better Leader than Lebron and has more rings than him does that mean Billups > Lebron?

[Spursfan092120]

Billups is a better Leader than Lebron and has more rings than him does that mean Billups > Lebron?
no...because Lebron is more talented than him. Just like Tim is more talented than KG. And Hakeem was a Center, so why the hell are we even discussing him? Do you even watch basketball?

[Lars]

If Duncan comes into the league in 84, he would have zero titles and zero mvps. His stacked team was successful in a weak era of basketball which causes people to overate him. Great player though!!

[LakerHater]

If Duncan comes into the league in 84, he would have zero titles and zero mvps. His stacked team was successful in a weak era of basketball which causes people to overate him. Great player though!!

WHAT!?!?!?

He played in the same era as Kobe, Shaq, A.I., K.G., Billips, etc.!
How could it be a weak era!! http://board.freeones.com/images/smilies/dunno.gif

[Spursfan092120]

WHAT!?!?!?

He played in the same era as Kobe, Shaq, A.I., K.G., Billips, etc.!
How could it be a weak era!! http://board.freeones.com/images/smilies/dunno.gif
No shit...and that's really kind of funny coming from a guy who only won their two rings in the mid 90's because of.........

http://baseballsnatcher.mlblogs.com/Michael Jordan_Baseball[1].JPG

[LakerHater]

No shit...and that's really kind of funny coming from a guy who only won their two rings in the mid 90's because of.........

http://baseballsnatcher.mlblogs.com/Michael Jordan_Baseball[1].JPG


EXACTLY!!!

If he didn't have his 21 month absence, he'd have 8 rings!

[Spursfan092120]

EXACTLY!!!

If he didn't have his 21 month absence, he'd have 8 rings!
And two more years of this..

http://www.hoops4thesoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/michael-jordan-1998-finals.jpg

Dude knew how to celebrate. Chillin in the locker room with the boys and a cigar.

[Lars]

lol, its not a dick size competition. You guys take things personally.

[LakerHater]

And two more years of this..

http://www.hoops4thesoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/michael-jordan-1998-finals.jpg

Dude knew how to celebrate. Chillin in the locker room with the boys and a cigar.


Sure did a cig & a Bud Light!!!!

[Spursfan092120]

lol, its not a dick size competition. You guys take things personally.
um...what? when did this become a porn thread? I'm just saying that for you to say as a Rockets fan that Tim Duncan wouldn't have done good in a different era is completely hypocritical, because of Jordan quitting to played baseball, and Tim played against some of the greatest players of all time.

[Lars]

um...what? when did this become a porn thread? I'm just saying that for you to say as a Rockets fan that Tim Duncan wouldn't have done good in a different era is completely hypocritical, because of Jordan quitting to played baseball, and Tim played against some of the greatest players of all time.

I was addressing the topic. It has nothing to do with what team I root for. Instead of of addressing my argument, the next ten posts are about the Rockets and Jordan which are irrelevant to the topic.

[Jloyola]

The only reason he has won those rings was because he got MASSIVE support. He had one of the greatest Centers in history by his side in 99 and 03, Had 3 allstars in 05 and and in 07.

Championship wise (media wise) Duncan would be considered one of the top 10 of all time only because of his rings and he was the best player on the team when they won those rings. Obviously no credit is given to teammates.

Statistical wise Tim Duncan is nothing but a Soft Kevin Garnet TYpe....

Discuss.....

You are RETARDED!!!

I know as a Laker Fan that Tim Duncan is the MAN... possibly the best PF of all time! I know every Laker fan would of loved TD on any Laker Roster.

What did you think coming into a SPURS board and stating TD is overrated and saying KG owns TD??? ... its like going into Laker Board and saying Vince Carter is 10x than Kobe Bryant, you're not going to convince anyone except TD haters than he is overrated!

[Spursfan092120]

I was addressing the topic. It has nothing to do with what team I root for. Instead of of addressing my argument, the next ten posts are about the Rockets and Jordan which are irrelevant to the topic.
so you bring dicks into the subject? That makes sense. I just want to know who played in 1984 that would have been a better PF than Tim Duncan in his prime? Especially considering the fact that big men got away with a lot more back in the mid 80's, because they were the darlings at the time. Now that guards are the darlings, they get away with more, and rules have changed to help them, like the hand check rule. So tell me...who would have been better than Tim in his prime that played in 1984?

[Ditty]

So youre saying Tim Duncan should be one of the greatest because he has 4 rings?? Might as well put Robert Horry up there...

tim duncan lead the spurs to 4 rings i dont know what your dumbass doesent get about that

before jordan the bulls were the laughing stock of the league

and kinda still are because they havent been shit since jordan but sure showed signs 12 years later so far there coming around :lol

was robert horry ever a leader of any championships he won?

duncan is surely the best overall basketball player than jordan

do you even see basketball or the spurs?

you surely don't know your shit if you think duncan is overated or your just pissing us off

[BlackBellamy]

dawning on me... Just how absolutely absurd this thread's existence is might create classic thread status. :lol

[Spursfan092120]

dawning on me... Just how absolutely absurd this thread's existence is might create classic thread status. :lol
This thread became classic from the beginning.

[Lars]

so you bring dicks into the subject? That makes sense. I just want to know who played in 1984 that would have been a better PF than Tim Duncan in his prime? Especially considering the fact that big men got away with a lot more back in the mid 80's, because they were the darlings at the time. Now that guards are the darlings, they get away with more, and rules have changed to help them, like the hand check rule. So tell me...who would have been better than Tim in his prime that played in 1984?

Its called an analogy...dick size contest...pissing contest. I gave you an opinion that you took personally, so instead of addressing the argument you tried to attack the Rockets...thus it became a "dick size contest"

Tims great, but I think he is probably on par with Barkley, Malone and Garnett. He generally gets pushed ahead of those guys because his teams had more success.

[BlackBellamy]

This thread became classic from the beginning.
Ya, I feel a little ashamed for not initially understanding the potential in such a massive miscarriage of logic. Kudos to the original poster! :toast Congrats! It's an abortion!

[Spursfan092120]

Its called an analogy...dick size contest...pissing contest. I gave you an opinion that you took personally, so instead of addressing the argument you tried to attack the Rockets...thus it became a "dick size contest"

Tims great, but I think he is probably on par with Barkley, Malone and Garnett. He generally gets pushed ahead of those guys because his teams had more success.
No..didn't take it personally...just thought it was stupid. Barkley and Malone both admit that Duncan is the best of all time, and Duncan/Garnett isn't even worth mentioning. Duncan has constantly owned Garnett, has better stats, and yes...has more rings. But it's the leadership, (which Garnett doesn't have)and his better stats (even while playing on a team with other stars, while KG played as the obvious star in Minnesota for most of his career) that make him a better player. What is one thing that you think would put KG above Tim?

[LakerHater]

Barkley & Malone!!?

The 2 guys that did what Garnett did but failed!

[Lars]

No actually I take it back, Tim Duncan is underated.

[baseline bum]

There are plenty of elite low-post scoreres and elite defenders and MVP means nothing, if you have great teammates then you will get the MVP Award.

Like LeBron? Duncan's great teammates when he won the 03 MVP and title were Parker scoring 15.5 a night, Robinson scoring 8.5, and Manu scoring 7.6. :lol

And yet he beat the Shaq and Kobe 3x defending champion Lakers without a second player even close to all-star level. Tell me when Garnett, Malone, or Barkley has ever done anything approaching that.

[TDMVPDPOY]

I think the original thread was more comparing T.D. to K.G. rather than ranking him above. He was attempting to undermine Tim's owning of his position (which is nuttier than squirrel turds) and even in comparing Garnett to Tim does Duncan a great disservice. So...

its always the same shit everytime you see a td v kg thread, KG fans tend to love to boast about statistics and undermine tds achievements....

[baseline bum]

Seriously, how is KG > TD? :lmao


PPG: KG 20.2, TD 21.4
REB: KG 11.1, TD 11.7
FG%: KG 49.6%, TD 50.7%
AST: KG 4.3, TD 3.2
BLK: KG 1.6, TD 2.3
STL: KG 1.4, TD 0.8

Oh wait, Tacker must mean playoffs:

PPG: KG 21.6, TD 23.3
REB: KG 12.4, TD 12.6
FG%: KG 47.0%, TD 50.1%
AST: KG 4.3, TD 3.5
BLK: KG 1.6, TD 2.6
STL: KG 1.3, TD 0.7

There's just no metric whatsoever that says KG > Duncan. :lol

[Ditty]

Like LeBron? Duncan's great teammates when he won the 03 MVP and title were Parker scoring 15.5 a night, Robinson scoring 8.5, and Manu scoring 7.6. :lol

And yet he beat the Shaq and Kobe 3x defending champion Lakers without a second player even close to all-star level. Tell me when Garnett, Malone, or Barkley has ever done anything approaching that.
:owned

nuff said

[Lars]

Seriously, how is KG > TD? :lmao


PPG: KG 20.2, TD 21.4
REB: KG 11.1, TD 11.7
FG%: KG 49.6%, TD 50.7%
AST: KG 4.3, TD 3.2
BLK: KG 1.6, TD 2.3
STL: KG 1.4, TD 0.8

Oh wait, Tacker must mean playoffs:

PPG: KG 21.6, TD 23.3
REB: KG 12.4, TD 12.6
FG%: KG 47.0%, TD 50.1%
AST: KG 4.3, TD 3.5
BLK: KG 1.6, TD 2.6
STL: KG 1.3, TD 0.7

There's just no metric whatsoever that says KG > Duncan. :lol

did you even look at this?

[baseline bum]

And what skillset does Duncan have that KG or Hakeem don't have?

About the only thing Duncan did better than Hakeem was run a break as the main ballhandler. As for KG, Duncan's a far better low post player, a better rebounder, and a better shotblocker for three things. You could also throw in better big-game player, better #1 horse carrying a team, and better teammate too.

[baseline bum]

did you even look at this?

Yeah, but your remark makes it seem like you didn't.

[TDMVPDPOY]

rasho played with KG didnt win shit

comes to the spurs and wins a ring?

rasho says hi btw.

[Lars]

Well the numbers are practically identical. Factor in Garnetts two extra seasons and declining play and they will probably even be closer after both retire.

[BlackBellamy]

rasho played with KG didnt win shit

comes to the spurs and wins a ring?

rasho says hi btw.

Rasho, Nazr and Elson all pulled Duncan's worthless ass over the hump according to the original joker's logic.

[GSH]

Tim Duncan is overrated in exactly the same way sex is overrated - the only people who say that are the ones who don't have it.

[BlackBellamy]

Well the numbers are practically identical. Factor in Garnetts two extra seasons and declining play and they will probably even be closer after both retire.

Duncan is better all around, stats, rings, I.Q., ect. If you can see the future, I'm taking you to Vegas fella'.

[nevitt_&_smrek]

Garnett was a superstar, but the problem was he was the 3rd best big guy in the West for the first half of the decade. After Shaq was traded East, Duncan was clear #1 but then Nowitzki came of age, so KG was still stuck at third. Although Stoudemire could have even been argued for that spot when healthy.

[KSeal]

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/8923/50f7f5a20327411fa77ee45.jpg

Please take the picture of Sasha out of your sig, thanks.

[BlackBellamy]

Please take the picture of Sasha out of your sig, thanks.
Awe, but he looks like a little hairy, overpaid angel when he sleeps.

[Jacob1983]

KG better than Duncan? Are you kidding me? That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. KG was ringless until he came to Boston. He had to have Allen and Pierce on his team to get a ring. Duncan had 4 rings before KG got his first. And how can you even compare KG to Duncan? They play completely different types of offense. Duncan is a low post scorer who can make mid range jumpshots. KG is a mid range jump shooter who posts up sometimes. KG relies more on jump shots.

[BlackBellamy]

KG better than Duncan? Are you kidding me? That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. KG was ringless until he came to Boston. He had to have Allen and Pierce on his team to get a ring. Duncan had 4 rings before KG got his first. And how can you even compare KG to Duncan? They play completely different types of offense. Duncan is a low post scorer who can make mid range jumpshots. KG is a mid range jump shooter who posts up sometimes. KG relies more on jump shots.

This Timmy love ^ from the lips of Mavs fans. Total classic thread!

[baseline bum]

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e52/ominousinane/gibby_1988-1.jpg

Nice sig.

[Unholy Turkey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuvicmG_zgk

Wow, I only wish Tim Duncan had these kinda radical post moves like Kevin Garnett, he's the man!:lmao

[BlackBellamy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuvicmG_zgk

Wow, I only wish Tim Duncan had these kinda radical post moves like Kevin Garnett, he's the man!:lmao

Holy crap! That was fantastic!

[Texas_Ranger]

:lol....Chuck Hayes owns KG's ass.

[sook]

Well the numbers are practically identical. Factor in Garnetts two extra seasons and declining play and they will probably even be closer after both retire.

garnett is a fucking cunt, I'll take any player over that piece of shit.

Timmy has class, he doesn't need to pound his chests all the time to be a hardass!

[gaKNOW!blee]

Heres all you need to know about KG is this:

Game 5 NBA finals, chance to clinch.....

2:31Kevin Garnett misses free throw 1 of 2 93-95
2:31Kevin Garnett misses free throw 2 of 2 93-95
2:03Kevin Garnett misses tip shot 93-97
0:30Kevin Garnett misses layup 95-99

[Jacob1983]

It's not Timmy love. I'm just stating the obvious. I can't stand the Spurs but I can admit that Tim Duncan is a great player and one of the best power forwards of all time.

[dirk4mvp]

lol it's funny to see people discredit another player so much to make their player look superior.

[Ditty]

It's not Timmy love. I'm just stating the obvious. I can't stand the Spurs but I can admit that Tim Duncan is a great player and one of the best power forwards of all time.

i can't stan the mavs who are not even in the same class as the spurs:lol

[BlackBellamy]

It's not Timmy love. I'm just stating the obvious. I can't stand the Spurs but I can admit that Tim Duncan is a great player and one of the best power forwards of all time.

Hey mang, it don't have to be Spurs love to be Timmy love (but it helps).

[BlackBellamy]

lol it's funny to see people discredit another player so much to make their player look superior.
K.G. vs. Duncan? doesn't take that much to prove really, and it's what fortifies this thread with a butt-load of win, Win, WIN!

[afireinside20]

If anything, Tim Duncan is severely underrated. This guy is is so great, with his low post moves, stoic presence, awesome leadership, and being classy. But sadly we live in a world now, where he goes unappreciated. Unfortunately, punks like Kevin Garnett and guys like LeBron get more attention for being more flashy and outspoken. Just like the sports Illustrated Issue in 1999 said after they swept the Lakers, "Substance Over Style". In a way, it's sorta like the way the Lakers and Celtics were in the 80's. The Lakers had all the flash and glitz with the fancy passing, movie stars, and fast break game. While the Celtics had more of the blue collar team game, where everyone does their part to kick the other teams ass. In a way, thats how Tim Duncan and the Spurs are, a throwback to old school team play. That is why Tim Duncan will not get the praise and recognition he deserves at least while he's playing. The age we live in is totally different, and style wins over substance. However, substance has won in 1999, 2003, 2005, and 2007. Probably like 5 years after Duncan retires, only then will the people that overlooked his game and said he was boring, will finally appreciate what he did for the game. A dying breed of big man, much like Shaquille O'Neal, that plays the positions and the game, the way it's supposed to be played.

[Thunderhorse]

I don't have any hate for Tim Duncan, but in the 2005 finals Manu was clearly the mvp over Duncan.

[afireinside20]

I don't have any hate for Tim Duncan, but in the 2005 finals Manu was clearly the mvp over Duncan.

Yea I agree Manu played great as well, but when he got hurt in Game 3, I think it hampered his chances. As for the next 2 and 3 games he wasn't as explosive, but he did bounce back in the 7th deciding game.

[Strike]

There are plenty of elite low-post scoreres and elite defenders and MVP means nothing, if you have great teammates then you will get the MVP Award.

Like Lebron James?

Fuckstick.

[Strike]

If Duncan comes into the league in 84, he would have zero titles and zero mvps. His stacked team was successful in a weak era of basketball which causes people to overate him. Great player though!!

Well, of course, you fool! He would have only been 8 years old had he been drafted in '84! Besides, what NBA GM in his right mind would draft an 8 year old swimmer?

[Tacker]

Like Lebron James?

Fuckstick.

You're telling me Lebron James got the best record in the League by himself?

[baseline bum]

You're telling me Lebron James got the best record in the League by himself?

So you've backed off the statistical argument now that I shot it down?

[Tacker]

So you've backed off the statistical argument now that I shot it down?

No im still backing up the statistical argument. If the GREATEST PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME that averaged 50ppg 20rbpg 15apg for example had shitty teammates, he wouldnt have got the best record in the NBA nor the MVP.

[Unholy Turkey]

Yeah he would.

Shoot, people still think Kobe and T-mac deserved MVP's back when they had bad teammates.

[LakerHater]

You're telling me Lebron James got the best record in the League by himself?

You're bitching that Tim only got all these stats, rings & :lobt2:because of his teammates but then you question this!!


I was givin' you the benifit of the doubt & try to understand where you were comming from but,now I'm begining to think you really don't know what you're talking bout!

[baseline bum]

No im still backing up the statistical argument. If the GREATEST PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME that averaged 50ppg 20rbpg 15apg for example had shitty teammates, he wouldnt have got the best record in the NBA nor the MVP.

OK, so where are KGs stats better than Duncans? That was your original stat argument.


Statistical wise KG > Duncan yet I dont see KG get the praise Duncan gets.

[FaithInOne]

The only reason he has won those rings was because he got MASSIVE support. He had one of the greatest Centers in history by his side in 99 and 03, Had 3 allstars in 05 and and in 07.

Championship wise (media wise) Duncan would be considered one of the top 10 of all time only because of his rings and he was the best player on the team when they won those rings. Obviously no credit is given to teammates.

Statistical wise Tim Duncan is nothing but a Soft Kevin Garnet TYpe....

Discuss.....

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/cat_vs_catdoor.gif

[Tacker]

OK, so where are KGs stats better than Duncans? That was your original stat argument.

KG stats were always better than Duncan til he moved to Celtics where he had to share with Allen and Pierce.....

[ffadicted]

Stat geeks should keep away from conversations about great players

[gaKNOW!blee]

Stat geeks should keep away from conversations about great players

Not really they're pretty important in most instances especially when your the leader of a championship team. Its just Duncans stats are better than KG's much like his resume.

[gaKNOW!blee]

KG stats were always better than Duncan til he moved to Celtics where he had to share with Allen and Pierce.....

If he was the greatest PF of all time, wouldnt he still have the same stats with other great players? Or maybe is he just a guy that needs others to carry him?

[Tacker]

If he was the greatest PF of all time, wouldnt he still have the same stats with other great players? Or maybe is he just a guy that needs others to carry him?

I never said KG was better than TD or KG was the greatest I simply said Tim Duncan is as good as KG both are not GOAT tho

[gaKNOW!blee]

I never said KG was better than TD or KG was the greatest I simply said Tim Duncan is as good as KG both are not GOAT tho

Well you said give KG Manu and TP and he would've accomplished more...doesn't that imply he is better?

[Tacker]

Well you said give KG Manu and TP and he would've accomplished more...doesn't that imply he is better?

Given KG's Statistics at his prime yes,

[gaKNOW!blee]

Given KG's Statistics at his prime yes,

The only thing KG has ever done better than Duncan is rebound. And even that he averages less than Duncan for his career.

[baseline bum]

KG stats were always better than Duncan til he moved to Celtics where he had to share with Allen and Pierce.....

Put up your proof, little boy.

[dallaskd]

lol ashraf

[Tacker]

Put up your proof, little boy.

From beginning to 2007 prior to the trade

Tim Duncan 20.1 ppg 2.4bpg 0.8apg 11.4 Rpg

Kevin Garnett 20.5 ppg 1.7bpg 1.4apg 11.7Rpg


Sit little boy sit.

[mavs>spurs2]

Everyone knows Duncan is overrated. I think he'd get eaten alive in a pickup game at Rucker Park with no whistles and his slow predictable ass moves.

[gaKNOW!blee]

From beginning to 2007 prior to the trade

Tim Duncan 20.1 ppg 2.4bpg 0.8apg 11.4 Rpg

Kevin Garnett 20.5 ppg 1.7bpg 1.4apg 11.7Rpg


Sit little boy sit.

Are you saying these are the stats from the beginning of their careers until KG got traded?

[baseline bum]

From beginning to 2007 prior to the trade

Tim Duncan 20.1 ppg 2.4bpg 0.8apg 11.4 Rpg

Kevin Garnett 20.5 ppg 1.7bpg 1.4apg 11.7Rpg


Sit little boy sit.

Hey shithead, Duncan's real numbers up to 2006-07 (Garnett's last in Minnesota) are:

PPG: 21.8
REB: 11.9
FG%: 50.9%
AST: 3.2
STL: 0.8
BLK: 2.5

Learn some math motherfucker.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Hey shithead, Duncan's real numbers up to 2006-07 (Garnett's last in Minnesota) are:

PPG: 21.8
REB: 11.9
FG%: 50.9%
AST: 3.2
STL: 0.8
BLK: 2.5

Learn some math motherfucker.

:lmao

[E20]

Hey shithead, Duncan's real numbers up to 2006-07 (Garnett's last in Minnesota) are:

PPG: 21.8
REB: 11.9
FG%: 50.9%
AST: 3.2
STL: 0.8
BLK: 2.5

Learn some math motherfucker.


Exactly LMAO

I was going to do this myself, because the numbers seemed wierd, because Tim Duncan has owned KG in career stats and head to head matchups throughout.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Hey shithead, Duncan's real numbers up to 2006-07 (Garnett's last in Minnesota) are:

PPG: 21.8
REB: 11.9
FG%: 50.9%
AST: 3.2
STL: 0.8
BLK: 2.5

Learn some math motherfucker.

:lmao

[BUMP]

if Duncan had to play a pickup game in the Huntsville state prison rec yard, i guarantee you he'd get destroyed

[cherylsteele]

From beginning to 2007 prior to the trade

Tim Duncan 20.1 ppg 2.4bpg 0.8apg 11.4 Rpg

Kevin Garnett 20.5 ppg 1.7bpg 1.4apg 11.7Rpg


Sit little boy sit.
I don't see KG being all that much better than TD with the stats you posted here. PPG and RPG are basically even and the difference is blocks, which TD out blacked KD by .7 BPG and KG out-assisted TD by .6 APG, which is basically a wash, add to that TD leadership, and his ability to step in crunch time much more often and overall career stats already posted by Baseline, your argument doesn't hold water.

[gaKNOW!blee]

I don't see KG being all that much better than TD with the stats you posted here. PPG and RPG are basically even and the difference is blocks, which TD out blacked KD by .7 BPG and KG out-assisted TD by .6 APG, which is basically a wash, add to that TD leadership, and his ability to step in crunch time much more often and overall career stats already posted by Baseline, your argument doesn't hold water.

Those arent the real stats.

[carrao45]

WHAT!?!?!?

He played in the same era as Kobe, Shaq, A.I., K.G., Billips, etc.!
How could it be a weak era!! http://board.freeones.com/images/smilies/dunno.gif

It wasnt a weak era, But the fact that u have to say Chauncey Billups is one of the best of the era definitely makes it seem weak

[DMX7]

Everyone knows Duncan is overrated. I think he'd get eaten alive in a pickup game at Rucker Park with no whistles and his slow predictable ass moves.

Basketball with no rules is not basketball..... go fuck yourself.

(A special message to you from Dr. James Naismith)

[Spursfan092120]

basketball with no rules is not basketball..... Go fuck yourself.

(a special message to you from dr. James naismith)
+1000000

[carrao45]

lol it's funny to see people discredit another player so much to make their player look superior.

I know it's stupid. You never see Kobe fans like me doin that:rolleyes

[TheProfessor]

Tacker's just trying to get a rise out of people. Go ahead and pink the dumbass.

[BlackBellamy]

Everyone knows Duncan is overrated. I think he'd get eaten alive in a pickup game at Rucker Park with no whistles and his slow predictable ass moves.

Ya and those slow methodical post moves wouldn't fly in the Harlem Globetrotters either. Maybe considering street ball and skill exhibition games are the highest form of competition in basketball you should go to one of those forums and bash on Duncan with Louis "Sweet Lou" Dunbar, huh? :toast

[Spursfan092120]

Tacker's just trying to get a rise out of people. Go ahead and pink the dumbass.
:tu Exactly what I've been saying...

[BUMP]

Tacker's wet dream was to get atleast one fan pissed off. The fact that this thread has reached 10 pages means that he probly got so excited he's in a coma right now

[Spursfan092120]

Tacker's wet dream was to get atleast one fan pissed off. The fact that this thread has reached 10 pages means that he probly got so excited he's in a coma right now
I think he was trying to get a rise out of Duncan228 after she busted him for plagiarism. Got a little rise out of me, to be honest, but I've just realized he's either an idiot or a good troll. Either way, not worth my time.