Sarkozy: burqas 'not welcome' in France

[DarrinS]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D98VP85G1&show_article=1





PARIS (AP) - President Nicolas Sarkozy lashed out Monday at the practice of wearing the Muslim burqa, insisting the full-body religious gown is a sign of the "debasement" of women and that it won't be welcome in France.

The French leader expressed support for a recent call by dozens of legislators to create a parliamentary commission to study a small but growing trend of wearing the full-body garment in France.

In the first presidential address in 136 years to a joint session of France's two houses of parliament, Sarkozy laid out his support for a ban even before the panel has been approved—braving critics who fear the issue is a marginal one and could stigmatize Muslims in France.

"In our country, we cannot accept that women be prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity," Sarkozy said to extended applause in a speech at the Chateau of Versailles southwest of Paris.

"The burqa is not a religious sign, it's a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement—I want to say it solemnly," he said. "It will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic."


In France, the terms "burqa" and "niqab" often are used interchangeably. The former refers to a full-body covering worn largely in Afghanistan with only a mesh screen over the eyes, whereas the latter is a full-body veil, often in black, with slits for the eyes.

Later Monday, Sarkozy was expected to host a state dinner with Sheik Hamad Bin Jassem Al Thani of Qatar. Many women in the Persian Gulf state wear Islamic head coverings in public—whether while shopping or driving cars.

France enacted a law in 2004 banning the Islamic headscarf and other conspicuous religious symbols from public schools, sparking fierce debate at home and abroad. France has Western Europe's largest Muslim population, an estimated 5 million people.

A government spokesman said Friday that it would seek to set up a parliamentary commission that could propose legislation aimed at barring Muslim women from wearing the head-to-toe gowns outside the home.

The issue is highly divisive even within the government. France's junior minister for human rights, Rama Yade, said she was open to a ban if it is aimed at protecting women forced to wear the burqa.

But Immigration Minister Eric Besson said a ban would only "create tensions."

A leading French Muslim group warned against studying the burqa.

[jman3000]

What if it's worn voluntarily? I don't see how you can actually enforce that.

I know that some Muslim women wear it because they think that only their husbands should be able to behold them. I think young children shouldn't wear them in any situations though.

[ChumpDumper]

So the victimized women who are allegedly forced to wear burqas will now be prosecuted and punished by the government for being victims.

Interesting.

[Oh, Gee!!]

So the victimized women who are allegedly forced to wear burqas will now be prosecuted and punished by the government for being victims.

Interesting.

at least he's doing something--unlike Obama.

[jman3000]

??? A ban on something like that in the US would be shot down fast. Unless you're being sarcastic.

A law against baggy pants was struck down as being unconstitutional. A burqa can be presumed to have even more 1st amendment protection than that.

[DarrinS]

This forum is full of burqa experts.

I've never seen a woman in SA wearing a full burqa. Just head scarf (sorry, don't know the technical term). The full burqa would probably scare the living shit out of children.

[DarrinS]

What if your religion required full nudity?

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

No surprise here. The entire French government is in the pocket of the Big Beret lobby.

[coyotes_geek]

at least he's doing something--unlike Obama.

So are you saying Obama needs to start lobbying to ban burqas?

[ChumpDumper]

This forum is full of burqa experts.

I've never seen a woman in SA wearing a full burqa. Just head scarf (sorry, don't know the technical term). The full burqa would probably scare the living shit out of children.So you love freedom, but not for choice in clothing.

[DarrinS]

No surprise here. The entire French government is in the pocket of the Big Beret lobby.

:lol

Thanks. This forum has definitely been lacking some humor, of late.

[sam1617]

What if your religion required full nudity?

If it was a real religion, not just people wanting to shock people, then I suspect that there would be some way to make it work...

I do think that Sarkozy and France is overstepping their abilities, but since they aren't based off of religious freedom quite like we are, they might do it anyways.

[Oh, Gee!!]

So are you saying Obama needs to start lobbying to ban burqas?

or at least say he supports the ban in order to embolden Sarkozy.

[jman3000]

What if your religion required full nudity?

That's using an extreme to try to prove a point which isn't really valid.

There are limitations to the 1st amendment if it interferes with the public good.

You can't have human sacrifices and claim it's protected under the 1st. Just like you can't scream "fire" in a crowded theater and claim free speech.

[DarrinS]

So you love freedom, but not for choice in clothing.


Given the choice, I think most women that live in extremely hot climates would choose to dress head-to-toe in black curtains and follow at least 5 paces behind their superior husbands.

[DarrinS]

That's using an extreme to try to prove a point which isn't really valid.

There are limitations to the 1st amendment if it interferes with the public good.

You can't have human sacrifices and claim it's protected under the 1st. Just like you can't scream "fire" in a crowded theater and claim free speech.


LOL. Burqas aren't extreme? How about scaring the shit out of kids. Hell, fuck that, they scare the shit out of me. I want to at least see eyeballs.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I think most women that live in extremely hot climates would choose to dress head-to-toe in black curtains

it's probably an effective way of combating skin cancer and heat-related strokes (provided they stay hydrated).

[DarrinS]

it's probably an effective way of combaing skin cancer and heat-related strokes.

:lmao

[sam1617]

Given the choice, I think most women that live in extremely hot climates would choose to dress head-to-toe in black curtains and follow at least 5 paces behind their superior husbands.

I think you would be surprised what people think... Just because you find it distasteful doesn't mean that the people in the other cultures do too. Its the way things are, and it is how they are raised, and it is their duty. I think you would be surprised if you went and tried to interview women on their beliefs. Sure, you would get a lot of younger women who agree with you, but you would get a lot who think you are wrong.

[ChumpDumper]

Given the choice, I think most women that live in extremely hot climates would choose to dress head-to-toe in black curtains and follow at least 5 paces behind their superior husbands.So you aren't talking about France anymore.

Tell me whether you think burqas should be banned in France or the US.

[ChumpDumper]

LOL. Burqas aren't extreme? How about scaring the shit out of kids. Hell, fuck that, they scare the shit out of me. I want to at least see eyeballs.You frighten easily.

[DarrinS]

I think the French textile lobby is going to fight this tooth and nail.

[jman3000]

Your extreme was saying "what if you wanted to be nude" or something.

People are scared shit less of clowns. Are you saying that if something scares somebody it should be banned? I'm scared of those dudes with tats all over their face and piercing coming out of their eyes... doesn't mean I think they should be banned.

[lefty]

I thought Sarkozy wasn't a racist !!!!


*cynism*

[jman3000]

Cultural relativism.

[DarrinS]

A law against baggy pants was struck down as being unconstitutional.


Did someone really try to ban those? I've always wondered what was the appeal of those things. I guess some people like having enough crotch room for a 20-lb turkey.

[jman3000]

Did someone really try to ban those? I've always wondered what was the appeal of those things. I guess some people like having enough crotch room for a 20-lb turkey.

It was brought up in a city in Florida and Hannity was discussing it for like 10 minutes a few months ago. He was actually for the ban, which is pretty funny since he's supposed to be all constitutional and stuff.

[coyotes_geek]

What if your religion required full nudity?

We already have that religion. They meet late at night, worship at the altar of the brass pole and collect tithings in even $20 incriments to melodious hymns such as Def Leppard's "pour some sugar on me".

[jman3000]

We already have that religion. They meet late at night, worship at the altar of the brass pole and collect tithings in even $20 incriments to melodious hymns such as Def Leppard's "pour some sugar on me".

:lol don't forget their sacrament of $4 steak and fries.

[LnGrrrR]

Wow, did I call this one or what? I just said earlier in a post that Sarkozy is a blowhard, and here he comes out and confirms it. Thanks Sarkozy!

[LnGrrrR]

This forum is full of burqa experts.

I've never seen a woman in SA wearing a full burqa. Just head scarf (sorry, don't know the technical term). The full burqa would probably scare the living shit out of children.

It's not that big a deal, really. I saw a good amount when I went to Abu Dhabi and Dubai last year.

I didn't see many that just left the eyes uncovered... most were everything but the face and hands. But the ones I did saw didn't scare me or anything like that. It's curious, but not creepy.

[DarrinS]

We already have that religion. They meet late at night, worship at the altar of the brass pole and collect tithings in even $20 incriments to melodious hymns such as Def Leppard's "pour some sugar on me".

LOL


Actually, since I live in S.A. and not anywhere near the Florida State campus, I'm eternally grateful that public nudity is against the law.

[ploto]

since I live in S.A. ... I'm eternally grateful that public nudity is against the law.
:rollin

[coyotes_geek]

LOL


Actually, since I live in S.A. and not anywhere near the Florida State campus, I'm eternally grateful that public nudity is against the law.

:lol

Being an Austin resident, it's been my experience that the nudists are near the top of the list of people you wouldn't ever want to see nude.

[bobbybob0]

I do think that Sarkozy and France is overstepping their abilities, but since they aren't based off of religious freedom quite like we are, they might do it anyways.

France is a secular state since 1905 which implies that the French government is legally prohibited from recognising any religion. Conversely, religious organisations should refrain from intervening in policy-making.
At the time this bill guarantee religious freedom (as long as it does not interfer with politics).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905_French_law_on_the_Separation_of_the_Churches_ and_the_State

Anyway, Sarkozy is full of shit and he is merely trying to distract the media with this needless BS and the French MSM are so happy to eat it it's disgusting.

[Spurminator]

Later in the speech Sarkozy also mandated that women visiting or moving to France would not be allowed to shave their armpits or nether regions.

[101A]

What if your religion required full nudity?

Mine does.

Nobody else will join, though.

[jacobdrj]

Yeah, I don't think many people realize (or care) that many of these so called debasement of women is an imposition of the men upon the women in these societies. That is just not the case. In many of the middle eastern cultures it is the women who pursue the wearing of certain clothing and the prohibition of certain behaviors (like driving).
I would agree that if these things were being imposed upon french Muslim women of age against their will, it should be dealt with as a violation of rights. But if they are adults, or children being raised by their parents with certain values, who is the government to say otherwise.

This isn't the 1st time the french have done this in recent history:
They banished religious symbols from schools. And I don't mean in the class room, I mean on the students themselves. They seem to want to deal with diversity by quashing individuality. It seems ironically socialist.

[sonic21]

this is not about French intolerance of other religions or cultures, but about protecting the secular nature of the French state. France is a lay country, not a religious country. A lay country doesn't mean a place where you cannot believe in a God. But in order to be able to worship wherever you want, you need to accept that others are worshipping somebody else. Therefore, in schools, administrative offices and public offices, they want to ban any visible religious sign.

[sabar]

Who cares what people wear and who cares if people walk around nude.

You would think there are more important issues than the one of covering up what is natural, for whatever reason.

[sam1617]

this is not about French intolerance of other religions or cultures, but about protecting the secular nature of the French state. France is a lay country, not a religious country. A lay country doesn't mean a place where you cannot believe in a God. But in order to be able to worship wherever you want, you need to accept that others are worshipping somebody else. Therefore, in schools, administrative offices and public offices, they want to ban any visible religious sign.

Sounds pretty much to me like intolerance.

[jman3000]

Who cares what people wear and who cares if people walk around nude.

You would think there are more important issues than the one of covering up what is natural, for whatever reason.

ummm.. I care if people walk around nude.

I almost get in a car accident everytime some chick with a nice rack is jogging past me on the way to school.

If she was nekkid I'd be in jail for manslaughter already.

[DarrinS]

Is it buck nekkid or butt nekkid?

[temujin]

Sounds pretty much to me like intolerance.

Sounds to me like the ultimate example of tolerance.

No freaks imposing their thinly veiled intolerant bigotry to others.

[Banzai]

This forum is full of burqa experts.

I've never seen a woman in SA wearing a full burqa. Just head scarf (sorry, don't know the technical term). The full burqa would probably scare the living shit out of children.

I saw a woman at the Doctors office come in fully covered from head to toe. Only thing to be seen were her eyes.

[sam1617]

Sounds to me like the ultimate example of tolerance.

No freaks imposing their thinly veiled intolerant bigotry to others.

I thought the ultimate example of tolerance was ignoring everyone. Tolerance is an individual thing, not a thing that can be legislated, unless of course they legislate us into all thinking and acting the exact same, in which case, that society will stagnate and die.

[LnGrrrR]

Sounds to me like the ultimate example of tolerance.

No freaks imposing their thinly veiled intolerant bigotry to others.

Ah, not a fan of liberty are you? :)