Jefferson Deal = Gasol Deal?

[2Cleva]

So the Spurs took note and learned and got themselves something for cap space like LA did.

Do Spurs fans still cry over the Gasol deal? SA actually gave up less for RJ than LA for Gasol.

Just wondering....

:wakeup

[HarlemHeat37]

Along those lines, except that nothing is official, and except for the fact that Gasol is an all-NBA player and one of the top bigs in the NBA..

[z0sa]

Gasol was traded for picks (which could fail), unproven talent which never played on the grizzlies, and marc gasol who while a promising young project, is not an all-nba all-star definitive #2 type guy and probably never will be.

[iggypop123]

seriously. going to be interesting hearing spurs fans try and make excuses. on the other hand cant wait for matchup #1. i doubt they play us on opening night. probably gonna be the rockets or something. maybe nuggets.

[2Cleva]

"What they did in Memphis is beyond comprehension," he told SI.com "There should be a trade committee that can scratch all trades that make no sense. I just wish I had been on a trade committee that oversees NBA trades. I'd like to elect myself to that committee. I would have voted no to the L.A. trade."

Gasol wasn't All-NBA until he got to LA.

I'm just saying. Props to the Spurs realizing they had to get down or lay down. Better than then crying about what other teams did.

[Yuixafun]

Like a homeless man's version.


It would be the equivalent of the Gasol trade if it involved Al Jefferson.

[Supamanu20]

Gasol>>>>>>>>>Jefferson, Gasol is a very talented 7 footer.

[coyotes_geek]

So the Spurs took note and learned and got themselves something for cap space like LA did.

Do Spurs fans still cry over the Gasol deal? SA actually gave up less for RJ than LA for Gasol.

Just wondering....

:wakeup

RJ isn't as good as Gasol though so that evens out somewhat. Regardless, it's a fair point by you. The deals are similar.

[angelbelow]

sweet!!!!

[rayray2k8]

the comparison is not even close...
but by laker fans already bitching about the move, that goes to show that
it was in fact a lob sided trade for the lakers..

:lol

[IronMexican]

Gasol is a lot better. But they at least gave up Gasol(Marc) to get Pau. I wont cry myself to sleep over this deal. I still think LA and a couple other teams in the West are better than SA.

[Gino]

Lol.

1) Jefferson is more athlete than basketball player. Gasol has an unprecedented B-ball IQ

2) Jefferson will never make an all-star team

3) Acquiring a guy whose name seems to be permanently engraved in the All-NBA defensive 1st team and two serviceable big-men who are all in the final year of their contract hardly equals Kwame Brown and two late picks.

So basically the Spurs gave up more than the Lakers and got back less.

[slayermin]

If Danny Ferry or Sam Presti made this deal, you might have an argument.

[pad300]

Gasol >>>> Jefferson
Gasol = worth max contract
Jefferson <= Turkoglu. Turkoglu made $7M this season. Jefferson made $13.2M

[SpursChampsIII]

So the Spurs took note and learned and got themselves something for cap space like LA did.

Do Spurs fans still cry over the Gasol deal? SA actually gave up less for RJ than LA for Gasol.

Just wondering....

:wakeup

:flipoff :troll

[jonnybravo]

Lol.

1) Jefferson is more athlete than basketball player. Gasol has an unprecedented B-ball IQ

2) Jefferson will never make an all-star team

3) Acquiring a guy whose name seems to be permanently engraved in the All-NBA defensive 1st team and two serviceable big-men who are all in the final year of their contract hardly equals Kwame Brown and two late picks.

So basically the Spurs gave up more than the Lakers and got back less.


Psst it's called an expiring contract. You know that valuable little chip everyone is trading for recently? You know that thing called cap space...

[samikeyp]

So the Spurs took note and learned and got themselves something for cap space like LA did.

Do Spurs fans still cry over the Gasol deal? SA actually gave up less for RJ than LA for Gasol.

Just wondering....

:wakeup


Those who cried about it will always cry about something. :lol

Me, I am just happy the Spurs FO did something for a change!

[Blackjack]

So the Spurs took note and learned and got themselves something for cap space like LA did.

Do Spurs fans still cry over the Gasol deal? SA actually gave up less for RJ than LA for Gasol.

Just wondering....

:wakeup

Equal to Gasol???

I'll tell you what, why don't we give you Jefferson and we'll take Gasol.

Yeah, it was definitely a salary dump, so in that there are some similarities, but in no way would I call this equal.:wakeup

[Taco]

So the Spurs took note and learned and got themselves something for cap space like LA did.

Do Spurs fans still cry over the Gasol deal? SA actually gave up less for RJ than LA for Gasol.

Just wondering....

:wakeup

So you think we got a better deal than the Lakers?

I'll Tell you what, you take Jefferson and we'll take Gasol :wakeup

[ChumpDumper]

I never believed in the collusion crap. It's just financially healthy franchises taking advantage of less healthy franchises.

[samikeyp]

i never believed in the collusion crap. It's just financially healthy franchises taking advantage of less healthy franchises.

+1

[objective]

RJ isn't half the player Gasol is.

[2Cleva]

Like I said before, props to the Spurs realizing they had to get down or lay down. Better than then crying about what other teams did.

Gotta pay the cost to be the boss. I'm glad SA did because no way were they on LA's level before this. It now gives LA a competitor to watch out for that they respect.

Not saying that RJ is as good as Pau but you gotta recognize its the same principle.

[ambchang]

Now if the Spurs can get Durant from the Thunder for peanuts, that would have collusion written all over it.

[IronMexican]

Wait till Los Spurs get a big man...the Lakers gave up a bag of peanuts for Gasol, who was an all-star in Memphis. Is is a coincidence that Jerry West is the Grizzlies GM? Not even close!

What exactly did the Spurs give up? 3 over the hill players? Both teams made moves to make their team better.

[Taco]

Now if the Spurs can get Durant from the Thunder for peanuts, that would have collusion written all over it.

:lol

[hater]

are Laker fans that fucking stupid to try to compare an above average guard to a top 10 NBA 7 footer????

:lmao

[K-State Spur]

a) Jefferson is a 3rd option (on a good team) who is VASTLY overpaid for what he actually gives you. Gasol was the franchise player on a team that was less than 2 years removed from the playoffs (in the West even) who was paid accordingly

b) There are no ties between the Spurs and Bucks to believe that the Bucks would be doing the Spurs a favor.

c) Between the economy, the 2010 plans, and most borderline contenders being set at the wing positions - it's not hard to fathom that Jefferson didn't have much of a market. Gasol on the other hand was moved for 10 cents on the dollar weeks before the trading deadline. That in and of itself is why fans can somewhat justifiable call it collusion. There is absolutely no way that Cup-check was going to withdraw that offer, so there was absolutely no reason for the Grizz to make that deal at that time. Forget whether or not it is the best offer at the time, is it the best offer that will come?

[galvatron3000]

Close but come on, Gasol was and is an All Star and in some regards a franchise type player. Jefferson is an All Star caliber player but not close to someone you'd build a team around. Kill this thread. If the trade had been for DWight Howard, Chris Bosh, Carmelo Anthony or even Pau Gasol I'd agree

[Halberto]

Gasol is a lot better. But they at least gave up Gasol(Marc) to get Pau. I wont cry myself to sleep over this deal. I still think LA and a couple other teams in the West are better than SA.



Keep telling yourself that. The days of Spurs vs. Lakers for the championship are back.

Looks like the team of the decade debates will be in full swing a year from now! :sleep

[robbie380]

nowhere close to equal but still a great deal for the spurs even though jefferson is greatly overpaid. also jefferson isn't anywhere close to the level of gasol.

[ambchang]

What exactly did the Spurs give up? 3 over the hill players? Both teams made moves to make their team better.

The Bucks gave themselves a better chance to sign hairless and Sessions. I am not sure how shedding Gasol's salary allowed the Grizzlies to retain their players back then.

What was even funnier was that the Grizzlies got more out of the Mike Miller trade than what they got out of the Gasol trade. Still makes very little sense to me.

[mytespurs]

Gasol is a lot better. But they at least gave up Gasol(Marc) to get Pau. I wont cry myself to sleep over this deal. I still think LA and a couple other teams in the West are better than SA.

Not many teams in the west at the moment are better than LA.

To me, it's not so much about competing against LA as much as getting better to compete in the West period. Spurs may not be as good as they were 2-3 years ago but they're not exactly a lottery team at this point.

[IronMexican]

You guys are butthurt that I don't think SA is the second best in the West? Portland(Who I think is the second best) Houston, and Denver, are in my opnion, all better.

[ambchang]

Gasol is a lot better. But they at least gave up Gasol(Marc) to get Pau. I wont cry myself to sleep over this deal. I still think LA and a couple other teams in the West are better than SA.

I actually agree. The Spurs badly need a rebounder and interior defender. While Jefferson was (is?) a fantastic rebounder for a SF, he is just not a PF/C. Add to that Kurt Thomas is gone, the Spurs would definitely need a strong, low post defender who can be rough and physical, set smart picks and rotate well on both O and D.

Oh, and I am assuming that Bowen will be back, if not, the Spurs would desperately need another perimeter player.

Finally, Duncan wasn't what he was back in 03, or even 07. He needs a lot more help than he used to. His play is still heads and shoulders above almost every other big in the league, but there is no question he isn't what he used to be.

[urunobili]

Im convinced that some teams are only in the league to help other teams get better. I cant wait to play the Spurs.

RJ> Ariza... get used to that bitch...

[slayermin]

Im convinced that some teams are only in the league to help other teams get better. I cant wait to play the Spurs.

Lakers got Stern in their back pocket so wtf you complaining about?

[IronMexican]

Ariza is 23. RJ is like 30 and gets buttfucked by Luke.

[ambchang]

No complaints here. Im glad the Spurs have pulled themselves out of the cellars of irrelevancy. Im tired of playing weak teams and steam rolling to the finals every year.

Huh?

[EricB]

are Laker fans that fucking stupid to try to compare an above average guard to a top 10 NBA 7 footer????

:lmao


Jefferson is a 20 point a game guy.

I'd say hes better than above average...

[z0sa]

:lobt:

Get use to seeing us with that bitch.

we've had it three times in the same span you've had it 1. OH you had it back in the 80's too? Those don't count. I said so.

Time for the Spurs to add another ring to the fingers, another trophy in our case.

[EricB]

Ariza is 23. RJ is like 30 and gets buttfucked by Luke.

29 and uh, whatever floats your boat.

[Kori Ellis]

Now that the Bucks are going to release Oberto/Bowen, it's a pretty equal trade.

RJ for Thomas :lol

[JamStone]

Lol.

1) Jefferson is more athlete than basketball player. Gasol has an unprecedented B-ball IQ

2) Jefferson will never make an all-star team

3) Acquiring a guy whose name seems to be permanently engraved in the All-NBA defensive 1st team and two serviceable big-men who are all in the final year of their contract hardly equals Kwame Brown and two late picks.

So basically the Spurs gave up more than the Lakers and got back less.

Gasol is definitely the better player and quality big men are harder to acquire in the NBA, but you're still being quite biased in your assessment.

You left out Marc Gasol when you said "Kwame Brown and two late picks" or Javaris Crittenton who ended up becoming Darrell Arthur for the Grizzlies. And, in puffing up Bruce Bowen as a "guy whose name seems to be permanently engraved in the All NBA defensive 1st team," you failed to mention that he's 37 years old and fell out of favor last year as his play began to steeply decline. That would be like justifying the legitimacy of a trade involving Chris Bosh for Ben Wallace because Ben Wallace's resume as a defender in the league.

There are similarities with the two trades, but the Gasol trade was still way shadier.

[bigdog]

KT for Jefferson is an absolute steal. I think Finley opts-in, and they trade him with Bonner for a decent big, and Ian finally comes through for us.

[picnroll]

So the Spurs took note and learned and got themselves something for cap space like LA did.

Do Spurs fans still cry over the Gasol deal? SA actually gave up less for RJ than LA for Gasol.

Just wondering....

:wakeup

So will you trade Gasol to the Spurs for Jefferson?

[Spurminator]

The reason the Gasol trade looked shady was that apparently there was little to no effort made by Wallace to explore better options... Based on comments by other GMs, the Grizzlies took the first offer to dump their best player, and the ties between LA and Memphis made the trade more suspicious. I don't think it was collusion either; at worst, it was lazy GMing, but until we hear that other teams had better offers for Jefferson this doesn't really compare. 3rd-option-level players for expiring contracts isn't really that unprecedented.

[SouthTexasRancher]

So the Spurs took note and learned and got themselves something for cap space like LA did.

Do Spurs fans still cry over the Gasol deal? SA actually gave up less for RJ than LA for Gasol.

Just wondering....

:wakeup


What a crock!!! :ihit

BTW...the La La Land Fakers can kiss any chance of a repeat Good-F*ing-Goodbye! :rollin

[MajicMan]

What a crock!!! :ihit

BTW...the La La Land Fakers can kiss any chance of a repeat Good-F*ing-Goodbye! :rollin

Because the Spurs repeat all the time :downspin:

[ChumpDumper]

The reason the Gasol trade looked shady was that apparently there was little to no effort made by Wallace to explore better options... Based on comments by other GMs, the Grizzlies took the first offer to dump their best player, and the ties between LA and Memphis made the trade more suspicious. I don't think it was collusion either; at worst, it was lazy GMing, but until we hear that other teams had better offers for Jefferson this doesn't really compare. 3rd-option-level players for expiring contracts isn't really that unprecedented.I think it is a result of having Michael Heisley owning the team. He reportedly harangued Jerry West to do something -- anything -- one week and West promptly signed Brian Cardinal to a full MLE deal. I can see something similar happening with Wallace.

[cherylsteele]

I am not sure this is a good trade for the Spurs.
Their defense was up to their usual par this past season and now with this trade it gets even worse. The offense will be better but at what cost?

We traded away basically our entire frontcourt save TD and Bonner. I have heard that the Bucks may release Bruce and Kurt and we resign them, but that is not guaranteed.

Ian is no guarantee either, he is unproven, and even then we need another big in the middle.

[ace3g]

Hopefully he continues the positive trend of Spurs players from Arizona (Elliott & Kerr)

[21_Blessings]

Gasol was traded for picks (which could fail), unproven talent which never played on the grizzlies, and marc gasol who while a promising young project, is not an all-nba all-star definitive #2 type guy and probably never will be.

Gasol was also traded for CAP SPACE buddy.

Let's see, Memphis got 3 picks a starting center, 2guard prospect and cap space for 2010. Along with having been shitty enough to attain two lottery picks which don't happen with Gasol starting every game.

Lmao

[mojorizen7]

Bad teams make bad deals to good teams.
Milwaukee is a bad team.
Memphis bent over for the LakeShow to give Gasol away. Why? They're a bad team.
These bad teams are constantly trying to dump salary so they can constantly suck so they can consistently get into the lottery and sign their high draft picks so they can dump them later on for more flexability to suck.

[mojorizen7]

You guys(SA) should go after Zasa Pachulia in FA.
He'd be a nice fit down there.

[ambchang]

Gasol was also traded for CAP SPACE buddy.

Let's see, Memphis got 3 picks a starting center, 2guard prospect and cap space for 2010. Along with having been shitty enough to attain two lottery picks which don't happen with Gasol starting every game.

Lmao

Memphis being bad and landing lottery picks has nothing to do with what LA gave up to get Gasol.

The Clippers sucked terribly over the years because they refused to sign their FA, doesn't make those good decisions.

BTW, only thing that was of anything of value to the Grizzlies was cap space and Marc Gasol, and the capspace gotten by the Gasol deal still hasn't been used, while the Jefferson deal will allow the Bucks to sign Villaneuva and/or Sessions.

[ploto]

You can not have it both ways. Either it's lopsided and a great deal for the Spurs, or it's not that great of a deal. I choose the first- Thomas for Jefferson is pretty lopsided, especially when no picks are involved. At least Memphis got picks for the future.

[21_Blessings]

Memphis being bad and landing lottery picks has nothing to do with what LA gave up to get Gasol.

Yes it did. Try using your brain. Healthy a Gasol out there = more wins. Instead of drafting top 5 you're looking at 9-15


BTW, only thing that was of anything of value to the Grizzlies was cap space and Marc Gasol, and the capspace gotten by the Gasol deal still hasn't been used, while the Jefferson deal will allow the Bucks to sign Villaneuva and/or Sessions.

Darrel Arthur looks like a very promising big (Lakers 1st rounder last season). So that's TWO things of value the trade already has over the Spurs. The cap space is quite obviously for 2010.

[ambchang]

Yes it did. Try using your brain. Healthy a Gasol out there = more wins. Instead of drafting top 5 you're looking at 9-15

The Lakers did not trade lottery picks for Gasol. Memphis just happened to get lottery picks because they traded away Gasol. While one led to the other, these two are separate transactions.

If I sold a bar of chocolate for $2, then used that $2 to buy a lottery ticket that turns out to be the winning ticket, winning me $5 million, it would mean I sold the chocolate bar for $2, not $5 million.


Darrel Arthur looks like a very promising big (Lakers 1st rounder last season). So that's TWO things of value the trade already has over the Spurs. The cap space is quite obviously for 2010.

Really, the Grizzlies got a rookie who averaged 6/5 and a 12/7 center for their franchise player? What a steal!

The Bucks already have cap space now to sign Villanueva and/or Sessions at this point, at least they have a clear immediate incentive to get cap space. The Grizzlies never did, and still haven't used that cap space. The Grizzlies STILL have the cap space left that they have no clear plans of using.

[ambchang]

You can not have it both ways. Either it's lopsided and a great deal for the Spurs, or it's not that great of a deal. I choose the first- Thomas for Jefferson is pretty lopsided, especially when no picks are involved. At least Memphis got picks for the future.

Who said it wasn't lopsided? Just that this one has a clear incentive for the Bucks, while the Gasol trade has no clear incentives for the Grizz

[21_Blessings]

The Lakers did not trade lottery picks for Gasol. Memphis just happened to get lottery picks because they traded away Gasol. While one led to the other, these two are separate transactions.

That's how it works in the NBA. Hanging around in the middle of the pack is the worst way to rebuild. Gasol would have hurt their draft position while his contract would have made it impossible to add an impact free agent. Gasol wasn't the only factor in this, but his absent was a factor in the Grizzlies getting that high of a draft pick no matter how you slice it.


Really, the Grizzlies got a rookie who averaged 6/5 and a 12/7 center for their franchise player? What a steal!

Calling Gasol a "franchise player" is hilarious. He proved he was incapable of being a franchise player, despite getting paid like one. Hence the reason he was traded.

Rookie has upside. The center that avg 12/7 is 24. Still have two more Laker related draft picks. We haven't talked about the cap space it created to sign an impact free agent. Which is exactly what the Bucks traded for while getting nothing else return. On top that, the players the Spurs traded will most likely resign with them. I don't see Marc Gasol backing up Andrew Bynum.


The Bucks already have cap space now to sign Villanueva and/or Sessions at this point, at least they have a clear immediate incentive to get cap space. The Grizzlies never did, and still haven't used that cap space. The Grizzlies STILL have the cap space left that they have no clear plans of using.

Again. Do you lack a brain? They can't use that cap space until July 1st. Even then, 2010 is the year you want to be under the cap. It's quite obvious what the plan is.

[21_Blessings]

Basically Spurs fan defending this trade while crying about the Gasol trade at any point during their posting career is nothing more than a hypocrite. Popovich the biggest among them all.

Just accept the obvious gift and move on.

[Duncan2177]

Now that the Bucks are going to release Oberto/Bowen, it's a pretty equal trade.

RJ for Thomas :lol

:tu

[DrHouse]

The saddest and funniest thing of all is watching all of the Spurs fans think their team has a chance now.

Without a frontcourt the Spurs will be sent fishing yet again.

[it's me]

Not even close idiot……. The Gaysol trade will be remembered for ever as the biggest steal on NBA history.

[mytespurs]

The saddest and funniest thing of all is watching all of the Spurs fans think their team has a chance now.

Without a frontcourt the Spurs will be sent fishing yet again.

And why do you care?

[resistanze]

The saddest and funniest thing of all is watching all of the Spurs fans think their team has a chance now.

Without a frontcourt the Spurs will be sent fishing yet again.

I agree. Since they plan to have 8 players on their team this year.

[DrHouse]

I agree. Since they plan to have 8 players on their team this year.

And they are already approaching the $70 million salary mark.

[Chillen]

The Lakers gave up Kwame Brown and unproven talent for Pau Gasol. That is as lopsided as trades get. The Spurs just gave up 2 players who have won NBA championships, though on the decline, that is still giving up more than what the Lakers gave up imo.

[ShoogarBear]

No, because George Gervin didn't sully his name forever by sabotaging another team.

[silk]

I don't really get criticizing the spurs for their front-court right now, you should at least wait a little

you act as if the spurs will do nothing and have no time whatsoever to adress the situation

[ambchang]

That's how it works in the NBA. Hanging around in the middle of the pack is the worst way to rebuild. Gasol would have hurt their draft position while his contract would have made it impossible to add an impact free agent. Gasol wasn't the only factor in this, but his absent was a factor in the Grizzlies getting that high of a draft pick no matter how you slice it.

And the plan to rebuild is to trade away your best asset for a couple of late 1st round picks? I find it absolutely hilarious you would question my amount of grey matter.

Gasol for young talent, cap space and high draft picks would make sense. In this case, the Grizzlies got minimal talent, cap space, and low picks (which actually contributed to the minimal talent).


Calling Gasol a "franchise player" is hilarious. He proved he was incapable of being a franchise player, despite getting paid like one. Hence the reason he was traded.

He was paid $11 to $12 million, with raises going up to around $18 in 3 years. These are very reasonable salary, especially when compared to players like Shawn Marion, Michael Redd, and Jermaine O'Neal.

And he WAS their franchise player, he carried a team to the playoffs for a couple of years, and performed relatively well under the circumstances.


Rookie has upside. The center that avg 12/7 is 24. Still have two more Laker related draft picks. We haven't talked about the cap space it created to sign an impact free agent. Which is exactly what the Bucks traded for while getting nothing else return. On top that, the players the Spurs traded will most likely resign with them. I don't see Marc Gasol backing up Andrew Bynum.

Marc Gasol was a 2nd round pick for a reason. The highest ceiling you can get with Marc Gasol's upside is nowhere near Pau Gasol's.


Again. Do you lack a brain? They can't use that cap space until July 1st. Even then, 2010 is the year you want to be under the cap. It's quite obvious what the plan is.

So with your infinitelintelligence, who do the Grizzlies have a chance to sign? Their plan was to stink up so ridiculously bad that they could sign a free agent? If I have a brain as large as yours, I am sure I can understand that NBA free agents actually sign for bad teams like they did with the Bulls a few years back.

And who in 2010 would sign with the Grizzlies? Wade? Bosh? Lebron? The Grizzlies are so bad now, Rubio and Theebet are sabotaging their chances of being drafted by them.

[21_Blessings]

And the plan to rebuild is to trade away your best asset for a couple of late 1st round picks? I find it absolutely hilarious you would question my amount of grey matter.

AND cap space and the ability to rebuild through the draft. Gasol gone means high lottery picks. Use common sense.


Gasol for young talent, cap space and high draft picks would make sense. In this case, the Grizzlies got minimal talent, cap space, and low picks (which actually contributed to the minimal talent).

No, Memphis got back young talent including picks which is young talent. Cap space will allow Memphis to sign a player that WANTS to play there. Matter of fact the cap space created by Gasol being gone means they can sign two player and keep their young talent around when the time comes.


He was paid $11 to $12 million, with raises going up to around $18 in 3 years. These are very reasonable salary, especially when compared to players like Shawn Marion, Michael Redd, and Jermaine O'Neal.

No it wasn't reasonable at the time since Gasol was constantly complaining and asking out of Memphis. At the time he was overwhelming thought of as overpaid for what he brought.


And he WAS their franchise player, he carried a team to the playoffs for a couple of years, and performed relatively well under the circumstances.

No, they thought he was their franchise player and he proved he wasn't capable. 0-12 in the playoffs speak for itself. Yeah, he sure carried them to a goose egg.


Marc Gasol was a 2nd round pick for a reason. The highest ceiling you can get with Marc Gasol's upside is nowhere near Pau Gasol's.

He averaged 12 and 7. He's a top 10 center in the NBA. Oh and young.


So with your infinitelintelligence, who do the Grizzlies have a chance to sign? Their plan was to stink up so ridiculously bad that they could sign a free agent? If I have a brain as large as yours, I am sure I can understand that NBA free agents actually sign for bad teams like they did with the Bulls a few years back.

NBA players follow the money. Always have always will. And their plan was to give the team to a bunch of young guys to develop them while stinking up the place in order to attain a top 5 pick. It worked.


And who in 2010 would sign with the Grizzlies? Wade? Bosh? Lebron? The Grizzlies are so bad now, Rubio and Theebet are sabotaging their chances of being drafted by them.

Go look at the FA agent list for this season and next. Plenty of players out there and not enough teams to pay them all. Just because they don't sign Wade or Lebron doesn't mean they can't sign two real good player wtih the cap space to compliment their young core.

Funny thing is Memphis is looking much better off than the Bucks. Gave up a 20 pt scorer for LUXURY TAX relief. Yeah I'm sure players are dying to sign in Milwaukee. Even your arguments are hypocritical.

[ploto]

The Lakers gave up Kwame Brown and unproven talent for Pau Gasol. That is as lopsided as trades get. The Spurs just gave up 2 players who have won NBA championships, though on the decline, that is still giving up more than what the Lakers gave up imo.

Neither of whom will ever play a minute for the Bucks.

[I. Hustle]

I think the FO office didn't want to spend all summer reading about how they need to make a big trade and some bold moves so they wanted to be the first to make a splash. That way when Pop, Holt, and R.C. read Spurstalk they can at least say "Hey we tried to make them happy"

[iggypop123]

Neither of whom will ever play a minute for the Bucks.

they are likely to get all 3 back now

[ambchang]

AND cap space and the ability to rebuild through the draft. Gasol gone means high lottery picks. Use common sense.

Did I ever argue otherwise? But why would you trade Gasol for minimum return and be terrible, than to trade Gasol for a couple of higher picks and be terrible? You seem to see this is a black and white issue, where Gasol had to be traded to the Lakers with minimum return, or not traded at all. There are other possibilities.




No, Memphis got back young talent including picks which is young talent. Cap space will allow Memphis to sign a player that WANTS to play there. Matter of fact the cap space created by Gasol being gone means they can sign two player and keep their young talent around when the time comes.

Kwame Brown and Javaris Crittenton are definitely not young talent. The 2 1st round picks are probably low picks, even at the time of the trade, and the Grizzly has to give up one 2nd round pick, which would be only a few spots from the 2010 1st round pick they got because Grizzlies were supposed to be horrible.

So the only person of any value that the Grizzlies got was Marc Gasol at that point.


No it wasn't reasonable at the time since Gasol was constantly complaining and asking out of Memphis. At the time he was overwhelming thought of as overpaid for what he brought.

Who actually thought that he was overpaid for what he brought?

Kobe Bryant wanted out earlier, you didn't see the Lakers trading him away so that they can suck real bad, get lottery picks, and have a free agent who wants to play with them sign, did you?


No, they thought he was their franchise player and he proved he wasn't capable. 0-12 in the playoffs speak for itself. Yeah, he sure carried them to a goose egg.

He was the franchise player nonetheless, and it was a playoff team. He played great with the Grizzlies in the playoffs. Not his fault that the team had no point guard, PF or anything else other than a outside shooting Mike Miller.

Hey, Kobe Bryant couldn't get the Lakers out of the first round with no support either. You don't just dump him.


He averaged 12 and 7. He's a top 10 center in the NBA. Oh and young.

Top 10 center?

Dwight Howard
Yao Ming
Pau Gasol
Andris Biedrins
Andrew Bogut
Marcus Camby
Tyson Chandler
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Al Jefferson
Chris Kaman
Shaquille O'Neal
Emeka Okafor

That's 12 right there, 11 if you don't count Al Jefferson, 13 if you count Tim Duncan.

Then there are the Samuel Dalembert, Brook Lopez, Andrew Bynum, Greg Oden, Mehmet Okur, Joakim Noah, Nene Hilario, and Al Harford, all who has an argument at being better than Marc Gasol.


NBA players follow the money. Always have always will. And their plan was to give the team to a bunch of young guys to develop them while stinking up the place in order to attain a top 5 pick. It worked.

Didn't work out very well for the Bulls did it. The only players who would follow the money are the players who are good enough to get a large contract, but not good enough to get a team over the top kind of player. In other words, someone who is worse than Gasol.

And how do you figured it worked? They got OJ Mayo after trading Pau Gasol, and got the 2nd pick in an extremely weak draft where both of their prospects didn't want to play for them.

Prior to trading Gasol, the Grizzlies were 13-32, or 29%, and after trading Gasol away, they were 9-28, or 24%. One could argue that they would get OJ Mayo regardless, especially when he was actually drafted by the Wolves and traded to the Grizz.


Go look at the FA agent list for this season and next. Plenty of players out there and not enough teams to pay them all. Just because they don't sign Wade or Lebron doesn't mean they can't sign two real good player wtih the cap space to compliment their young core.

So they are trading away one franchise player for two "real-good" player, with an average of around $8m each?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=freeagents-09-10

I suppose they can sign Josh Howard, but then, Howard isn't someone who can get you out of the first round, or even in the playoffs.


Funny thing is Memphis is looking much better off than the Bucks. Gave up a 20 pt scorer for LUXURY TAX relief. Yeah I'm sure players are dying to sign in Milwaukee. Even your arguments are hypocritical.

Because the Bucks put themselves in a horrible situation in the first place by getting Jefferson. Their choice was either trade Jefferson, or lose Villanueva and Sessions. But who knows? Maybe the Bucks would suck so bad for the next 15 years, they would draft the best player who ever played in the NBA. I bet you would link it all the way back to say that the Bucks actually got cap relief and the best player ever for RJ.

[exstatic]

So the Spurs took note and learned and got themselves something for cap space like LA did.

Do Spurs fans still cry over the Gasol deal? SA actually gave up less for RJ than LA for Gasol.

Just wondering....

:wakeup

Gasol isn't a role player. Jefferson is, albeit a very well paid one. On his best day on any kind of playoff team, he's the third banana.

[exstatic]

they are likely to get all 3 back now

There's no percentage in cutting Thomas. He gets paid in full, no matter what.

[ploto]

they are likely to get all 3 back now

They don't want all three back.

[Allanon]

Collussion? Hahah no collusion, just a team dumping salary and another getting a great deal. No different than the Memphis Grizzlies trade to the Lakers.

There's definitely gonna be some ammo if the hypocrisy of "collusion" ever gets brought up again :lol

[Hornets1]

Duncan and Manu are getting up there age-wise, and that gives the Spurs a win-now mindset, which means this trade makes a lot of sense. The other option would be an overhaul, but manu and timmy still have a few good years left. BTW, Good for duncan = Great.

[picnroll]

Collussion? Hahah no collusion, just a team dumping salary and another getting a great deal. No different than the Memphis Grizzlies trade to the Lakers.

There's definitely gonna be some ammo if the hypocrisy of "collusion" ever gets brought up again :lol

WTF are you talking about. Memphis didn't get a great deal. Getting even one decent lottery pick would have still been a steal for the other team. Getting shit was getting rolled. Like the guy said, so far the Grizz have gotten a lower tier center who has played above expectations for the guy who probably deserved the MVP trophy in the 2010 finals. When Jefferson merits a finals MVP trophy get back to us.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

So the Spurs took note and learned and got themselves something for cap space like LA did.

Do Spurs fans still cry over the Gasol deal? SA actually gave up less for RJ than LA for Gasol.

Just wondering....

:wakeup

What bullshit.

Gasol is one of the top 10 big men in the league, Jefferson is an above average 3.

Go back to your troll hole.

[Allanon]

WTF are you talking about. Memphis didn't get a great deal. Getting even one decent lottery pick would have still been a steal for the other team. Getting shit was getting rolled. Like the guy said, so far the Grizz have gotten a lower tier center who has played above expectations for the guy who probably deserved the MVP trophy in the 2010 finals. When Jefferson merits a finals MVP trophy get back to us.

Memphis got an excellent deal:

1) Pau Gasol was several years removed from even being an All-Star when the Lakers got him. He was good but not VERY good...he only looks very good playing with the Lakers.
2) He was known to be very soft..just look at all the GaSOFT jokes around these forums.
3) He was making $16 million a year for the same numbers that Richard Jefferson puts up for $13 million

a) Kwame Brown provided Cap relief
b) Memphis got a Lotto pick
c) Marc Gasol in his rookie year is a Top 15 NBA Center...a friggin' Rookie. If the Spurs got Marc Gasol with Tim, Tony, Manu, RJ, I'd favor them over the Lakers. Marc Gasol is going to be a Top 10 NBA Center this year...for $3 million a year and $13 million less than his brother Pau.

If Marc Gasol was in the 2008 draft he would have easily been a top 5 draft pick. Meanwhile, Bowen/KT/Fabricio only provide cap relief.

This Spurs/Bucks deal is MUCH better than the Lakers/Grizzlies trade.

[wut]

This is not the same at all, anyone who has any kind of Basketball IQ knows this.

Jefferson is a might make an All-Star game a few times his career player. Gasol is a should make the All-Star game as long as he's healthy type of player.

The reason Gasol's stock fell so low (ie. people weren't talking about how good he was), was due to his attitude; the guy completely felt drained and seemed to not even care playing with a team he knew could never contend for a title. You have to remember he was on a bunch of crappy Grizzly teams for many years where all the pressure was on him and he's just not the leader type. You could see it in his face that he just didn't care. In his first 2 seasons the guy was a beast and went toe-to-toe with Duncan. The trade to the Lakers was a complete STEAL (a max player who DESERVES max) for literally throw away pieces.

So when you sit there and try to compare this Spurs trade (involving multi-mid level player contracts for a max contract), to the Lakers' Gasol trade (involving multi-low level player contracts for max contract) you're just wrong, in every which way.

I went digging for Grizzly fans thoughts on the trade, this pretty much sums it up:


Wait a minute...are you freaking KIDDING me??? We've been shopping Pau Gasol for a year, and the best we can get for him is Kwame Brown?? KWAME BROWN??? Are you joking?? Have you not been paying attention? Kwame Brown is a complete STIFF!!! He good booed off the court in LA last week. Who at the Grizzlies could have POSSIBLY thought this was a good idea?? I don't care what people think of Pao personally, he was a solid player when healthy, and was putting up pretty good numbers this year. If you trade him, fine, but you HAVE to get better value than Kwame Brown. I do not understand this move AT ALL. Awful, awful, awful.I'm pretty sure all Bucks fans are thinking right now is: "Alright, Jefferson was good, but he wasn't worth the money".

You getting my point yet? :lol

You can compare stats all you want, but if you don't factor in that Gasol wasn't playing up to his potential due to pressure/frustration....you'll always come to the conclusion that the Grizzlies got a good deal.

[picnroll]

Memphis got an excellent deal:

1) Pau Gasol was several years removed from even being an All-Star when the Lakers got him. He was good but not VERY good...he only looks very good playing with the Lakers.
2) He was known to be very soft
3) He was making $16 million a year for the same numbers that Richard Jefferson puts up for $13 million

a) Kwame Brown provided Cap relief

Bruce Bowen, Fabricio/KT bring nothing to the Bucks except cap relief.
b) Memphis got a Lotto pick
c) Marc Gasol in his rookie year is a Top 15 NBA Center...a friggin' Rookie. If the Spurs got Marc Gasol with Tim, Tony, Manu, RJ, I'd favor them over the Lakers. Marc Gasol is going to be a Top 10 NBA Center this year...for $3 million a year.

If Marc Gasol was in the 2008 draft he would have easily been a top 5 draft pick. Meanwhile, Bowen/KT/Fabricio only provide cap relief.

This Spurs/Bucks deal is MUCH better than the Lakers/Grizzlies trade.
Tell you what dildo. Send Gasol to the Spurs for Jefferson and watch the Spurs kick the Lakers asses out in the first round.

[Allanon]

Tell you what dildo. Send Gasol to the Spurs for Jefferson and watch the Spurs kick the Lakers asses out in the first round.

Tell you what bitch, why don't you just let me have a night with your mom?

[picnroll]

Tell you what bitch, why don't you just let me have a night with your mom?

Help yourself. She's as stiff as your arguments.

[mystargtr34]

Pau put up 20.4 PPG, 8.9 RPG, 4.6 APG, 2 BPG on 50%+ shooting while leading his team to 50 wins while being the only All-Star on the team.

Richard Jefferson has put up some nice numbers in the past - but hes never bean the main man on a playoff team. Hes damn good player, and it was a damn good trade, but hes no Gasol.

Comparing the two is like comparing Kevin Garnett to Stephen Jackson. One is a border line franchise player (Garnett is one), the other is a 2 or 3 time All-Star who would be the third option at best on a championship team.

The Lakers gave up slightly more, basically a late teen first round pick who wasnt working out, and a second round selection.

You swap Pau for Jefferson, Lakers come back to the pack, and the Spurs take their place as the sure fire favourite to win it all.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Memphis got an excellent deal:

1) Pau Gasol was several years removed from even being an All-Star when the Lakers got him. He was good but not VERY good...he only looks very good playing with the Lakers.
2) He was known to be very soft..just look at all the GaSOFT jokes around these forums.
3) He was making $16 million a year for the same numbers that Richard Jefferson puts up for $13 million

a) Kwame Brown provided Cap relief
b) Memphis got a Lotto pick
c) Marc Gasol in his rookie year is a Top 15 NBA Center...a friggin' Rookie. If the Spurs got Marc Gasol with Tim, Tony, Manu, RJ, I'd favor them over the Lakers. Marc Gasol is going to be a Top 10 NBA Center this year...for $3 million a year and $13 million less than his brother Pau.

If Marc Gasol was in the 2008 draft he would have easily been a top 5 draft pick. Meanwhile, Bowen/KT/Fabricio only provide cap relief.

This Spurs/Bucks deal is MUCH better than the Lakers/Grizzlies trade.

I like you Allanon, but you are kidding yourself. Gasol didn't 'blossom' as a Laker, he was already this good, he was just playing on a bad team so non-one noticed. Also, his stats weren't similar to Jefferson's for $3mil more - try looking in the rebounds, blocks and shooting % columns and get back to me. Finally, as you know, decent SFs are a dime a dozen, decent power bigs are rare as hen's teeth.

The Lakers swapped cap relief and one draft pick (forget crittendon, who was a throw-in and made no sense for Memphis at the time given their glut of young PGs) for a proven top 10 big man, the Spurs swapped cap relief for a decent scoring SF. The Lakers achieved what shouldn't have been allowed, the Spurs made an opportunistic trade at a time when teams are giving away players to cut salary.


Tell you what. Send Gasol to the Spurs for Jefferson and watch the Spurs kick the Lakers asses out in the first round.

Exactly.

[Allanon]

Help yourself. She's as stiff as your arguments.

She might be stiff but not uncomfortable. Thanks.

[picnroll]

She might be stiff but not uncomfortable. Thanks.
I knew Kobe was into weird shit but didn't realize Lakers' fans were into necrophilia. Can't say as I'm entirely surprised though.

[Allanon]

I like you Allanon, but you are kidding yourself. Gasol didn't 'blossom' as a Laker, he was already this good, he was just playing on a bad team so non-one noticed. Also, his stats weren't similar to Jefferson's for $3mil more - try looking in the rebounds, blocks and shooting % columns and get back to me. Finally, as you know, decent SFs are a dime a dozen, decent power bigs are rare as hen's teeth.


You're good peoples Ruffn, I know.

I agree that decent bigs are rare. If the Lakers hadn't given up Marc Gasol, I can see it as being a good deal.

The Bucks got back absolutely nothing in terms of talent in this trade. The Grizz got Marc Gasol and a high lotto pick and their needed salary dump. Marc Gasol alone is worth Richard Jefferson.

[Allanon]

I knew Kobe was into weird shit but didn't realize Lakers' fans were into necrophilia. Can't say as I'm entirely surprised though.

Like I said, she's may be a bit stiff but not uncomfortable. Thanks for offering her to me, you're a good son.

[wut]

I like you Allanon, but you are kidding yourself. Gasol didn't 'blossom' as a Laker, he was already this good, he was just playing on a bad team so non-one noticed. Also, his stats weren't similar to Jefferson's for $3mil more - try looking in the rebounds, blocks and shooting % columns and get back to me. Finally, as you know, decent SFs are a dime a dozen, decent power bigs are rare as hen's teeth.



Exactly.
Agreed...and to top it off he was 27 (at the time of trade)....a 27yr old 7 foot all-star for throw-a-ways.

I think the best point made in this whole thread is if the Lakers would trade Gasol for Jefferson... are you getting equal trade? Clearly not....not even close.

[Spursfan092120]

nice story, son.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

You're good peoples Ruffn, I know.

I agree that decent bigs are rare. If the Lakers hadn't given up Marc Gasol, I can see it as being a good deal.

The Bucks got back absolutely nothing in terms of talent in this trade. The Grizz got Marc Gasol and a high lotto pick and their needed salary dump. Marc Gasol alone is worth Richard Jefferson.

So you'd swap Marc for Pau? Of course you wouldn't.

Look, this is a good trade forthe Spurs, no doubt, but the Gasol trade was unbelieveable. Your team essentially traded some average NBA talent for a Top 10 big just entering his prime who was exactly what the team needed to put it over the top. There's no contest that landing Pau was a better trade than landing Richard Jefferson.

[picnroll]

Agreed...and to top it off he was 27 (at the time of trade)....a 27yr old 7 foot all-star for throw-a-ways.

I think the best point made in this whole thread is if the Lakers would trade Gasol for Jefferson... are you getting equal trade? Clearly not....not even close.

I have yet to hear a Laker saying they'd offer up Gasol for Jefferson. Best argument they make is the Grizz got a middle level center who played far beyond what the Lakers, Grizz or anyone else expected at the time of the trade. Meanwhile the "centerpiece", Crittendon, has bounced and will continue to do so.

[Allanon]

So you'd swap Marc for Pau? Of course you wouldn't.

Look, this is a good trade forthe Spurs, no doubt, but the Gasol trade was unbelieveable. Your team essentially traded some average NBA talent for a Top 10 big just entering his prime who was exactly what the team needed to put it over the top. There's no contest that landing Pau was a better trade than landing Richard Jefferson.

No, not straight up. But Marc, a high lotto pick and $13 million in salary relief like the Grizz got and you have a deal, Sir.

That high lottery pick could be a Carmelo Anthony or Blake Griffin, Ricky Rubio.

The Grizz got 1 high level talent in Marc Gasol and a possible franchise player in their high lotto pick PLUS they got the salary cap they needed. What did the Bucks get?

[Banzai]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/3cd60aebd897d4144727149023ded85c.gif (http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=4099)

[Borosai]

≈

[Yuixafun]

I remember Phil Jackson reaction to the Gasol trade on PTI when it first went down.

TK: "... I can get you Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown, what did you say back?"

PJ: -3 seconds of silence, before wry grin breaks free, laughing- "No you can't."

[Allanon]

After the Lakers saw Marc Gasol play in the Olympics, they knew they had made a mistake.

Mitch Kupchak and Kobe Bryant both acknowledged they shouldn't have given up Marc Gasol. Marc Gasol was the steal of the deal, not Pau Gasol.

[Purple & Gold]

So now the same spurs fans that were crying collusion about the Gasol trade are now saying they can see the reasoning behind this one for the Bucks. :lol

One thing I like about spurs fans is they can twist anything to fit their needs. Lakers gave up 4 first rounders (Marc was first round talent at time of trade) and cap space, spurs just gave up capspace and will probably get those players back. But to spurs fans it still doesn't compare because Gasol is a Franchise player and Jefferson is only average or slightly above average. :rollin :rollin

[Yuixafun]

So who was the lifetime Spur and former GM on the Bucks that helped facilitate this trade?

[Ninja]

Does anyone see the irony in Lakers fans saying Jefferson isn't that great and the Spurs still aren't close to the Lakers out of one side of their mouth, but this is comparable to the Gasol trade out of the other?

[picnroll]

Funny how you go to any neutral board like the NBA forum on Realgm and the only ones talking about how reasonable the Gasol - Grizz trade was and how he Spurs - Bucks trade is equivalent is Lakers' fans.

[Spursfan092120]

Does anyone see the irony in Lakers fans saying Jefferson isn't that great and the Spurs still aren't close to the Lakers out of one side of their mouth, but this is comparable to the Gasol trade out of the other?
I was just thinking the same thing.

[wisnub]

Lol.

1) Jefferson is more athlete than basketball player. Gasol has an unprecedented B-ball IQ

2) Jefferson will never make an all-star team

3) Acquiring a guy whose name seems to be permanently engraved in the All-NBA defensive 1st team and two serviceable big-men who are all in the final year of their contract hardly equals Kwame Brown and two late picks.

So basically the Spurs gave up more than the Lakers and got back less.


ahh i get it. If you love the players and they've been around for years its hard to let them go. Forget Bowen is 38 yrs old, Thomas 36 and Oberto is 34 and just recover from irregular heartbeat. I hate to say it but they are over and THEY SHOULD RETIRE IN GLORY THAN SPENDING FRUSTATING YEARS. How in the world a 38 years old guy guarding Kobe Bryant? When you talking base on fans reasons not basketball one, then i got nothing to say.
Basically Jefferson averages 22points in Nets years, and 19plus points last year not to mention shooting career high from 3 pt line. All 3 combines will never ever put that number, Bowen might get couple of stops but hes too old and hairston is getting better. I dont get how Spurs fans behave, but i guess it doesnt really matter rite? Whatever...

[daslicer]

Win or lose against the Lakers next year I will enjoy having to see Kobe actually having to play defense since he didn't have to do it this year against any of the elite. Every team in the west had one player the Kobe could play roming defense with the Jazz-Brewer, Rockets-Battier, Nuggets-Dante, Magic-Lee. With the spurs he will be forced to guard either Parker,Manu,Jefferson, and Mason. 3 out of 4 of those guys are 20 point scores on any night plus Mase is capable of getting hot.

[Allanon]

Does anyone see the irony in Lakers fans saying Jefferson isn't that great and the Spurs still aren't close to the Lakers out of one side of their mouth, but this is comparable to the Gasol trade out of the other?

I didn't say that at all. In another thread, I said the Spurs have set a date with the Lakers in the WCF with this trade.

This was an outstdanding trade for the Spurs, can't really see where they gave up anything. The Lakers would have had a great trade if they hadn't packaged Marc Gasol. By giving up Marc to the Grizz, it was a pretty fair trade as the Grizz also got a high lotto pick out of it. If that Lotto pick turns out to be the next Dwayne Wade pick at #5, the Grizzlies robbed the Lakers blind. Who knows, they might even luck it into a #1 draft pick.

[ShoogarBear]

Collussion? Hahah no collusion, just a team dumping salary and another getting a great deal. No different than the Memphis Grizzlies trade to the Lakers.

There's definitely gonna be some ammo if the hypocrisy of "collusion" ever gets brought up again :lol

One huge difference . . .

http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2007/04/18/jerry_west_2.jpg

[Gutter92]

seriously. going to be interesting hearing spurs fans try and make excuses. on the other hand cant wait for matchup #1. i doubt they play us on opening night. probably gonna be the rockets or something. maybe nuggets.


Lol. Yea, cause Richard Jefferson was Milwaukee's franchise player :lol

[Allanon]

One huge difference . . .

http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2007/04/18/jerry_west_2.jpg

Most deals in the business world are done between guys who know each other, it just makes it that much easier.

But just like in regular business, just because I know you, it doesn't mean I'm going to let you rip me off. Jerry West has always had a great eye for talent, maybe he was the one that insisted on getting Marc Gasol out of the deal.

I think most of the deals in the NBA are done between guys who know each other pretty well...it's a small fraternity.

[mytespurs]

I didn't say that at all. In another thread, I said the Spurs have set a date with the Lakers in the WCF with this trade.

This was an outstdanding trade for the Spurs, can't really see where they gave up anything. The Lakers would have had a great trade if they hadn't packaged Marc Gasol. By giving up Marc to the Grizz, it was a pretty fair trade as the Grizz also got a high lotto pick out of it. If that Lotto pick turns out to be the next Dwayne Wade pick at #5, the Grizzlies robbed the Lakers blind. Who knows, they might even luck it into a #1 draft pick.

I don't think he was referring to you. :) You're one of the few lakers fan here who looks at things objectively. I can respect that. :toast

[cobbler]

Funny how you go to any neutral board like the NBA forum on Realgm and the only ones talking about how reasonable the Gasol - Grizz trade was and how he Spurs - Bucks trade is equivalent is Lakers' fans.

Kind of like Spur fan saying Gasol is a softy and that the spurs are still the better team when healthy then following it up with collusion talk and how memphis handed the championship to LA.

[cobbler]

Win or lose against the Lakers next year I will enjoy having to see Kobe actually having to play defense since he didn't have to do it this year against any of the elite. Every team in the west had one player the Kobe could play roming defense with the Jazz-Brewer, Rockets-Battier, Nuggets-Dante, Magic-Lee. With the spurs he will be forced to guard either Parker,Manu,Jefferson, and Mason. 3 out of 4 of those guys are 20 point scores on any night plus Mase is capable of getting hot.

Oh yeah... cause Kobe has proven he's such a defensive liability. :lmao

[Sdayi135]

You're good peoples Ruffn, I know.

I agree that decent bigs are rare. If the Lakers hadn't given up Marc Gasol, I can see it as being a good deal.

The Bucks got back absolutely nothing in terms of talent in this trade. The Grizz got Marc Gasol and a high lotto pick and their needed salary dump. Marc Gasol alone is worth Richard Jefferson.

Care to explain why Marc Gasol is worth Richard Jefferson?

[DrHouse]

I don't give a shit about this deal and don't even see why Spur fans are so joyous about it. So you added another wing player, great.

Wake me up when the Spurs actually give Tim Duncan the help he needs with something useful. At his age he needs more than just a serviceable big alongside him, those knees just ain't gonna hold up to huge regular season minutes.

[Allanon]

Care to explain why Marc Gasol is worth Richard Jefferson?

He's a good Center, much more rare than good small forwards. Richard Jefferson is better right now but by next year, I think Marc Gasol is more valuable.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

After the Lakers saw Marc Gasol play in the Olympics, they knew they had made a mistake.

Mitch Kupchak and Kobe Bryant both acknowledged they shouldn't have given up Marc Gasol. Marc Gasol was the steal of the deal, not Pau Gasol.

Oh you actually got robbed right? What an awful trade for the Lakers - it obviously made the Grizzlies so much better and the Lakers are fighting to get in the playoffs after parting with so many great assets.

I also see Laker fans have a new mantra - the Grizz got a high lottery pick because of the deal lol like they wouldn't have got it if they had dealt him to another team ( or even if he had stayed ).

RJ for Pau? Are you OK with that?

[Kamnik]

Well... I always thought that that Gasol trade was fishy and basically agreed with my fellow Spurs fans that it is wrong.

But from today on I do not think we should talk too much about it because this Jefferson trade is not all that diferent.

[xellos88330]

I still think that the Gasol trade was bullshit because it was in the middle of the season when it can be more difficult for teams to get things done to counter it. Off season is more of a level playing field.

[Kamnik]

I still think that the Gasol trade was bullshit because it was in the middle of the season when it can be more difficult for teams to get things done to counter it. Off season is more of a level playing field.

This doesn't make much sence :P

[Allanon]

Oh you actually got robbed right? What an awful trade for the Lakers - it obviously made the Grizzlies so much better and the Lakers are fighting to get in the playoffs after parting with so many great assets.

I also see Laker fans have a new mantra - the Grizz got a high lottery pick because of the deal lol like they wouldn't have got it if they had dealt him to another team ( or even if he had stayed ).

RJ for Pau? Are you OK with that?

RJ + lotto pick
or
Marc Gasol + lotto pick + $13 million salary dump (what the Grizzlies ended up with)

Either one is fine with me in trade for Pau.

I mean really, the Grizzlies got the salary relief they needed, a very good Center for $3 million and a lotto pick for their 20 point scorer. What did the Bucks get for their 20 point scorer?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

RJ + lotto pick
or
Marc Gasol + lotto pick + $13 million salary dump (what the Grizzlies ended up with)

Either one is fine with me in trade for Pau.


How exactly did you give Memphis a lotto pick? By stealing their best player and making them a very bad team? As some people have already pointed out they were winning at a .290 before trading him, so it's not like they weren't going to have a lotto pick regardless of whether he had stayed or been traded to another team.

[Allanon]

How exactly did you give Memphis a lotto pick? By stealing their best player and making them a very bad team? As some people have already pointed out they were winning at a .290 before trading him, so it's not like they weren't going to have a lotto pick regardless of whether he had stayed or been traded to another team.

The Lakers sent Javaris Crittenton to the Grizz in the Pau trade and they traded him for a lotto pick.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The Lakers sent Javaris Crittenton to the Grizz in the Pau trade and they traded him for a lotto pick.

Alright, then you might as well use J.Crittenton instead of 'lotto pick' in your justifications, no? Or does it not sound that good being put this way?

[kobyz]

The Lakers sent Javaris Crittenton to the Grizz in the Pau trade and they traded him for a lotto pick.

they dont got it from the lakers so it's not relevant

[Allanon]

Alright, then you might as well use J.Crittenton instead of 'lotto pick' in your justifications, no? Or does it not sound that good being put this way?

It sounds much better as a lotto pick and since it's the net result of the trade, it's true. :lol

[Allanon]

they dont got it from the lakers so it's not relevant

Javaris Crittenton was traded for that lotto pick. They wouldn't have had that assett if they didn't get him from the Lakers in the Pau trade.

Javaris was part of the Gasol deal. So the net result of the Pau deal for the Grizz so far is Marc + lotto pick + $13 million salary dump. If that lotto pick becomes an elite player, it's going to be even sweeter for the Grizz.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It sounds much better as a lotto pick and since it's the net result of the trade, it's true. :lol

So if the Bucks resign Villanueva and Sessions with the money they got from the RJ deal, their net result would be : Villanueva + K.Thomas + Sessions for RJ. Not that bad of a deal eh?

[kobyz]

Javaris Crittenton was traded for that lotto pick. They wouldn't have had that assett if they didn't get him from the Lakers in the Pau trade.

Javaris was part of the Gasol deal. So the net result of the Pau deal for the Grizz so far is Marc + lotto pick + $13 million salary dump. If that lotto pick becomes an elite player, it's going to be even sweeter for the Grizz.

Memphis make Javaris Crittenton into a lotto pick not the Lakers.

[Allanon]

So if the Bucks resign Villanueva and Sessions with the money they got from the RJ deal, their net result would be : Villanueva + K.Thomas + Sessions for RJ. Not that bad of a deal eh?

Neither Villanueva or Sessions came from the Spurs. Only KT & Bowen.

the Bucks didn't receive any talent back. Now if they trade KT or Bowen for Vince Carter or Dwayne Wade or a lotto pick, sure, that's a great deal for the Bucks.

Until then, this was a salary dump and the Spurs got a talented player and the Bucks got salary relief.

Nothing wrong with it at all, it's a great deal for the Spurs and it fits the Bucks purposes. Just like the Gasol trade made great sense for the Grizzlies.

Teams were in the right place at the right time with the necessary assets and came out with great deals...there's no collusion in this...just great trading.

[Allanon]

Memphis make Javaris Crittenton into a lotto pick not the Lakers.

Where did Memphis get Javaris Crittenton and in which trade?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Just like the Gasol trade made great sense for the Grizzlies.

This is where Laker fans disagree with fans of 28 other teams. In the same time you will not find many arguing against the RJ deal, except for laker fans who can't enjoy their title because they desperately want to justify the collusion.You use every possibility to do it, remember last season there were a lot of laker fans who said the deal for Kurt Thomas was a collusion as well and that the Spurs got away with a great deal, talk about being desperate.

Enjoy your title dude, no one wants any justification of the Gasol deal, it's done, move on. Everyone else in the NBA has already done it, except for Laker fans.

[Allanon]

it's done, move on.

Agreed.

That's the point of this thread...let's quit with all this collusion talk because it's hypocrisy.

[kobyz]

Where did Memphis get Javaris Crittenton and in which trade?

this is the point Memphis get Javaris Crittenton from the Lakers not a lotto pick.

[holcs50]

Neither Villanueva or Sessions came from the Spurs. Only KT & Bowen.

the Bucks didn't receive any talent back. Now if they trade KT or Bowen for Vince Carter or Dwayne Wade or a lotto pick, sure, that's a great deal for the Bucks.

Until then, this was a salary dump and the Spurs got a talented player and the Bucks got salary relief.

Nothing wrong with it at all, it's a great deal for the Spurs and it fits the Bucks purposes. Just like the Gasol trade made great sense for the Grizzlies.

Teams were in the right place at the right time with the necessary assets and came out with great deals...there's no collusion in this...just great trading.

Haven't read through this whole thread, nor do I want to. Spent enough hours on spurstalk and espn.com yesterday. Allanon just gave a perfect assessment of the deal, why anyone would argue with it is just proving there's tards in here. Props all for shooting straight and not bs'ing which u can do from time to time :lol. I have nothing to add to the trade conversation from what has been said and what allanon said here, eh nevermind ill add a few words.

As for comparing the trades i could give a shit, the pau deal has been long done-was great for them they won a chip from it, spurs just made an impact trade, we'll see what happens. I think that we'll add a quality big man in off-season and have a very competitive squad.

PS I'm fuckin tired of everyone saying "IF healthy" and "IF the 3 can stay healthy all season".....just stop. Every team is susceptible to injuries. Spurs had a bad year in regards to manu and TD...that does not mean they can't come back and play great again. 33 and 31 is not all that decrepit, injuries can happen to anyone on any team and its not like manu or TD had ACL reconstruction (not fun btw), or a major ligament tear. Manu had a lingering issue that turned into something else but with ample time there's no reason to think he can't come back....TD just put a lot more stress onto his legs, play him 30mpg plus a long summer of rest and he will be ok-and duh get another QUALITY big who can actually help him defend. I guess point is stop saying spurs will compete "IF" the 4 guys stay healthy....you could say that about the lakers, the rockets, the nuggets...here ya go the lakers will compete for a ring next year "IF" kobe,pau,ariza, and odom stay healthy. same thing. Next year everyone goes in fresh, spurs have as good a chance to stay healthy as any other team. I guess that's /rant

[41times]

One hell of a shrewd move to get Jefferson and the kicker is that you get Oberto back after he is released.

Barring injury the Spurs have a legit shot in 2010.

[Fabbs]

Equal to Gasol???

I'll tell you what, why don't we give you Jefferson and we'll take Gasol.

Yeah, it was definitely a salary dump, so in that there are some similarities, but in no way would I call this equal.:wakeup
Awesome. Best post of many good rebuttles and this ends any and all the Faker whining, period.

[ambchang]

No, not straight up. But Marc, a high lotto pick and $13 million in salary relief like the Grizz got and you have a deal, Sir.

That high lottery pick could be a Carmelo Anthony or Blake Griffin, Ricky Rubio.

The Grizz got 1 high level talent in Marc Gasol and a possible franchise player in their high lotto pick PLUS they got the salary cap they needed. What did the Bucks get?

Where is that high lotto pick you kept referring to? The Grizzlies sucking and getting a lottery pick has nothing to do with the value of the trade. The Grizzlies could STILL trade Gasol for a high pick, cap relief, suck for a few years, get more lottery picks and such.

I thought the Grizzlies got the 2008 1st round pick of the Lakers (I think turned out to be Darrell Arthur), and a 2010 1st round pick of the Lakers. Given that the Grizzlies have to give up their 2010 2nd round pick, and how good the lakers are and how bad the Grizzlies are (foreseeable during time of trade), these two picks could be a few spots from each other, making negligeble difference.

[Brazil]

So if Gasol=RJ maybe Lakers can trade Gasol for RJ, right ?

[ambchang]

So now the same spurs fans that were crying collusion about the Gasol trade are now saying they can see the reasoning behind this one for the Bucks. :lol

One thing I like about spurs fans is they can twist anything to fit their needs. Lakers gave up 4 first rounders (Marc was first round talent at time of trade) and cap space, spurs just gave up capspace and will probably get those players back. But to spurs fans it still doesn't compare because Gasol is a Franchise player and Jefferson is only average or slightly above average. :rollin :rollin

What better deal could the Bucks get from Jefferson? The Bucks were strictly looking to shed salary because they couldn't sign Villanueva and Sessions. They did that.

The Grizzlies, on the other hand, were looking at shedding salary and rebuilding with good picks. Even Kobe Bryant used the word "donation" to describe the trade, and Heisley openly questioned whether he got the value that he could've gotten.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-heisleygasol060308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

“I don’t know if I got the most value,” Heisley confessed. “Maybe our people should’ve shopped (Gasol) more and maybe we would’ve gotten more, done a better deal. Maybe Chris did call every team in the league. I don’t think he did, but maybe he should’ve…”

In the same article, it was mentioned that the Bulls gave a offer far better than the Lakers did:


For Gasol and Memphis’ Hakim Warrick, the Bulls were willing to part with Andres Nocioni, Tyrus Thomas, Joakim Noah, Thabo Sefolosha, possibly Adrian Griffin and draft picks.

And now I asked, which team is willing to give a better deal to the Bucks than the Spurs for a vastly overpaid SF?

[Fabbs]

Oberto and fodder for Bosh would have been = Kwame Brown for Gasol collusion.

[hsxvvd]

Yep. Jefferson's 13 ppg is worth Bowen, Oberto, Thomas.

This is beginning to look like the Bucks pulled a "Gasol" trade.

[jjktkk]

So the Spurs took note and learned and got themselves something for cap space like LA did.

Do Spurs fans still cry over the Gasol deal? SA actually gave up less for RJ than LA for Gasol.

Just wondering....

:wakeup

:rolleyes Yes Laker troll. I'll still cry. How in the hell can you even attempt to make a comparison. A dominate offensive, post, player and perennial all-star center in Gasol, vs. a solid, athletic, wing player in Jefferson. Are you kidding me? Is it April's Fool's day over there in LA LA Land. Maybe I should FEDEX you a clue or something.

[murpjf88]

I can't believe I missed this thread. You can't be serious. Gasol and Jefferson aren't even in the same league as far as talent is concerned. This thread is a complete Fail!

[senorglory]

At the time of the trade, Gasol was a franchise player.

[Blackjack]

Awesome. Best post of many good rebuttles and this ends any and all the Faker whining, period.

Yeah, BLACKJACK21 was a hell of a poster; miss that sonbitch...

[gm5k]

:rolleyes Yes Laker troll. I'll still cry. How in the hell can you even attempt to make a comparison. A dominate offensive, post, player and perennial all-star center in Gasol, vs. a solid, athletic, wing player in Jefferson. Are you kidding me? Is it April's Fool's day over there in LA LA Land. Maybe I should FEDEX you a clue or something.

It's just completely idiotic. I can't believe they actually try and compare the two situations.