Harvey: Cut Rate Again -- Trade Affects Ginobili

[duncan228]

Cut rate again -- trade affects Ginobili (http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/buckharvey/2009/06/manu----ever-a-bargain.html)
By Buck Harvey

Ten years ago tonight the Spurs made one of the greatest draft selections in NBA history. With the 57th pick in the 1999 draft, the second to the last selection, San Antonio first heard of Emanuel David Ginobili.

R.C. Buford said later it was between Ginobili and another Argentine. Buford said he flipped a coin.

That's one of Buford's best qualities. He's never felt the need to say he out-smarted anyone. Finding Ginobili was lucky, but the Spurs clearly saw something in him then.

Everybody knows what followed. Ginobili grew as a player in Italy, then arrived in San Antonio in 2002 ready to play.

What many forget: He played that first year with the Spurs for $1,325,000. Today that is Jacque Vaughn money.

It's been a constant in Ginobili's career. Even as he earned more salary, he never made what he was worth. That's in line to happen again, even if Ginobili proves next season that his ankle injuries are behind him.

The Richard Jefferson trade is a reason.

The Spurs will able to re-sign Ginobili for any amount they wish, even with Jefferson, and no one should worry about the Ginobili household. He has enough cash. He's never once mentioned his salary as an issue, either.

Still, he's the rare NBA story. In a league where so many are overpaid while under-performing, Ginobili has been the opposite.

He would earn $1,543,500 his second season in San Antonio, and then he signed the contract he's under now. Ginobili might have been able to get more had he squeezed. But he didn't negotiate much; he met Buford at the DFW Airport and said, sure, he wanted to stay.

So he signed a $52 million contract -- then quickly proved that wasn't enough. He led Argentina to the gold medal just weeks later, then became an All-Star while driving the Spurs to the 2005 title. The $6.6 million he earned that season is about $1 million less than what Malik Rose earned this past season.

The contract will end a year from now, and it will pay him just over $10 million next season. The Spurs could negotiate an extension with him at any time, but they will wait as they should. They need to see what Ginobili has left.

But even if Ginobili stays injury-free, the economics of his franchise and the league work against him. There is less money out there, especially for aging guards with a history of injuries.

Jefferson's contract will be especially influential. He will add an extra $15 million to the summer of 2010, obligating the Spurs to about $45 million for just three players. The Spurs will be unable to avoid paying a luxury tax, so they will negotiate with Ginobili knowing that every cent they spend on him is an extra one they will be paying in tax.

There was a time when the Spurs were freer to reward players such as Bruce Bowen and even Jaren Jackson. They won't feel that way now.

So maybe the Spurs will offer a healthy Ginobili a $6-8 million annual salary over two years, and maybe he looks elsewhere for more. But in this economy, how many franchises will have the cap space and the desire to risk it on someone who would be 35 when the next contract is over?

Besides, the same Ginobili who wasn't driven by money before will likely not want to start over in another city at this stage in his career.

All of this points to Ginobili being a bargain -- as he's always been.

[Steve-O-Matic]

What makes the Manu pick in 1999 all the more great is that the pick itself was acquired on draft night from the Mavericks. The Spurs traded the last pick in the first round to the Mavs for two 2nd rounders, which they used on Gordan Giricek and Manu. The Mavs used their pick on Leon Smith and had to give him a 3-year guaranteed contract to boot. ROFL!

[timvp]

R.C. Buford said later it was between Ginobili and another Argentine. Buford said he flipped a coin.Lucas Victoriano. And supposedly the Spurs picked Ginobili because Victoriano was a PG and Buford didn't think an international PG would survive under Pop.

I think now that the Spurs have abandoned the 2010 plan, giving Ginobili an extension this summer makes sense. Even considering his injury risk, it's best to lock him up now for a reasonable contract than play it out. Even if he gets hurt again, I wouldn't be willing to give up on him.

Something like a 2-year, $16-18 million extension now probably makes sense for both sides.

[bdictjames]

Damn - so this means this year its championship or nothing?

[timvp]

What makes the Manu pick in 1999 all the more great is that the pick itself was acquired on draft night from the Mavericks. The Spurs traded the last pick in the first round to the Mavs for two 2nd rounders, which they used on Gordan Giricek and Manu. The Mavs used their pick on Leon Smith and had to give him a 3-year guaranteed contract to boot. ROFL!

The Ginobili pick was San Antonio's pick. The Mavs gave up two second rounders but it was Giricek and a future second rounder that turned into Chris Carrawell.

lol mavericks, nonetheless.

[coyotes_geek]

Ten years ago tonight.......

........CG was thinking who the f- is this Emanuel guy?

[vander]

ahh the glory days when TD was half as expensive and twice as good, if only the FO was willing to break the bank back then, we'd have sooooo many championships right now, and what's an extra 10-20 million per year when you win 8 titles in 12 years and become the greatest team/achievement in NBA history

oh well, what's done is done, back to feeling happy about getting RJ

[PM5K]

I wouldn't be shocked if someone paid him more than 6-8 million when he's 34-35, he's an amazing player when he's healthy, he puts up PER numbers right there with the best in the league, he's a huge impact player.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

........CG was thinking who the f- is this Emanuel guy?

Stern was too. "Eee-man-yoo-el GEE-no-bee-lee."

[EricB]

Harvey had to get up his Ginobili article quota :lol


I disagree about giving him an extension this summer, commiting that much money to someone who could easily get hurt again and be done for the year and then commiting the money again the very NEXT year, tieing up THAT salary slot to him IMO is still too risky and I would hold off and commit the money to a younger prospect.

[lurker23]

Now that the money situation for 2010 is more certain, I give him an extension as soon as possible. Use the injury woes to shave a few million off the deal, get him locked up for a few years, and focus on basketball and team chemistry with our revitalized core.

[montgod]

Now that the money situation for 2010 is more certain, I give him an extension as soon as possible. Use the injury woes to shave a few million off the deal, get him locked up for a few years, and focus on basketball and team chemistry with our revitalized core.

Not only that, but RJ coming aboard helps cut just enough into his minutes where he won't have to score like he did before.

Either way, like the article states, Manu won't want to start over again elsewhere in this stage of his career. He will be back if he can prove to be healthy next year.

[Bukefal]

I tell you, we need to trade him! Best option.

[Blackjack]

I've often thought about how ridiculously lucky we were with Manu.

The pick, the bang for the buck, and the character/professional that has become Manu Ginobili.

It's part of the reason I've never understood how so many could justify trading him. It's not an emotional argument, just rationale.

There's isn't a player in the league that could possibly bring back equal value for Manu. Like Buck mentioned, few players have ever had the productivity of a Manu while being as under-compensated. (relative to league-standards)

Trading Manu would be like a championship baseball team trading their still capable Hall of Fame closer for a good bat or defensive player. It might look decent on paper and help to carry you through the grind of a season, but it wouldn't mean a whole lot if the team weren't able to close the deal.

So while Manu's injuries become more worrisome at this stage of his career and the prospect of him staying healthy is a somewhat dicey proposition, when healthy, Manu's proven he knows how to seal the deal. Anything the Spurs could reasonably get for Manu and what they could bring, might bring the more consistency or wins during the regular season, but wouldn't bring the promise of a championship-closer come June.

"Something like a 2-year, $16-18 million extension now probably makes sense for both sides." As timvp suggested, would be more than appropriate.

[coyotes_geek]

Something like a 2-year, $16-18 million extension now probably makes sense for both sides.

If the Spurs put in some injury safeguards where not all of that would be guaranteed if he didn't play in X number of games then I'd be more than fine with it. Manu would probably take it too, because he's got to worry about him being healthy as much as the Spurs do. If he's healthy, he gets a good deal. If he's not, he still gets something.

[vander]

I tell you, we need to trade him! Best option.

I still think we should have sent him to Washington for a year, then moved up from the 5 to get Thabeet. Big men are risky, but the reward is worth it, and developing under TD would also lessen the chance that he would bust.

just a thought

[Mel_13]

If the Spurs put in some injury safeguards where not all of that would be guaranteed if he didn't play in X number of games then I'd be more than fine with it. Manu would probably take it too, because he's got to worry about him being healthy as much as the Spurs do. If he's healthy, he gets a good deal. If he's not, he still gets something.

Excellent, excellent point. This would allow for a deal this summer that would share the risks associated with signing a player coming off an injury.

I would also think that a deal this summer would be more likely if Manu was to announce his retirement from the NT. Then the Spurs would only be assuming the risk for further injury sustained as a Spur.

[Kindergarten Cop]

I still get nervous when I read the words "trade" and "Ginobili" in the titles of articles.:wow

[Obstructed_View]

The relationship between the Spurs and Manu has been mutually beneficial. I'm sure Manu has no regrets. I'd say now that there's an athletic long three on the team that the Spurs should go ahead and lock Manu up for one last contract and still have plenty of money to spend on role players until the window closes.

[HarlemHeat37]

A healthy Manu will get himself a nice contract, and it will get the team a possible title..it would simply work for both sides..so we just have to hope for the best, and hope Manu's minutes are managed well..no bad luck..

at the end of the day, a healthy Manu is more valuable to us than anything we could get in a realistic trade..

[rayray2k8]

Damn - so this means this year its championship or nothing?

It's always been that way.

[Yuixafun]

I still think we should have sent him to Washington for a year, then moved up from the 5 to get Thabeet. Big men are risky, but the reward is worth it, and developing under TD would also lessen the chance that he would bust.

just a thought

When Thabeet gets picked 2 or 3rd who do the Spurs draft? I can see the mentoring a big man aspect to your thinking, but Thabeet has nowhere near the potential as Duncan.

Having Manu in the mix makes the Spurs a contender now, while Duncan is in his twilight and Parker in his prime.

You can't teach intangibles, his vision, passion, etc. Not to mention the chemistry he has developed with Tim and Tony for 3 Championship runs. Don't be so quick to downplay that relationship.

Trading him for player X, whether he be a young prospect or rising star, still will not give you what Manu will for the next 2/3 years, provided he is relatively healthy.

The Spurs know that the inevitable is approaching.

Dumping Manu is counterproductive to winning now. Why change a major component to your core??????

To develop a future player and get younger? Realistically you can't try rebuild and win now. It's a balancing act, trying to figure out when this group of guys is done. They aren't yet, and the Spurs FO has still managed to plant some seeds for the future, without sacrificing the present.

[rascal]

I still think we should have sent him to Washington for a year, then moved up from the 5 to get Thabeet. Big men are risky, but the reward is worth it, and developing under TD would also lessen the chance that he would bust.

just a thought


I agree. Thabeet would be great on the spurs and worth Manu who will be on the rapid decline from here on out.

[EricB]

Thabeet is going to be a freaking stiff.

He's samuel dalembert all over again..

[45 bank shot]

yay one day manu/s jersey will be on the rafters

[vander]

When Thabeet gets picked 2 or 3rd who do the Spurs draft? I can see the mentoring a big man aspect to your thinking, but Thabeet has nowhere near the potential as Duncan.

Having Manu in the mix makes the Spurs a contender now, while Duncan is in his twilight and Parker in his prime.

You can't teach intangibles, his vision, passion, etc. Not to mention the chemistry he has developed with Tim and Tony for 3 Championship runs. Don't be so quick to downplay that relationship.

Trading him for player X, whether he be a young prospect or rising star, still will not give you what Manu will for the next 2/3 years, provided he is relatively healthy.

The Spurs know that the inevitable is approaching.

Dumping Manu is counterproductive to winning now. Why change a major component to your core??????

To develop a future player and get younger? Realistically you can't try rebuild and win now. It's a balancing act, trying to figure out when this group of guys is done. They aren't yet, and the Spurs FO has still managed to plant some seeds for the future, without sacrificing the present.

yeah, we'd have to wait and make sure Rubio goes 2nd, then try to move up from 5 to 3, and we'd only be losing Manu for a year, which could very well happen due to injury anyways, he'd come back in 10-11. so it'd be almost like stealing.

[MannyIsGod]

I diagree that Manu would be unwilling to start elsewhere. He strikes me as having a shit ton of pride, and I think he wouldn't mind a chance to show he's worth the money if someone else throws it at him.

[DAF86]

he signed a $52 million contract -- then quickly proved that wasn't enough. He led Argentina to the gold medal just weeks later, then became an All-Star while driving the Spurs to the 2005 title. The $6.6 million he earned that season is about $1 million less than what Malik Rose earned this past season.

That's just wrong.

[timvp]

That's just wrong.Yeah, really wrong.

Especially when you consider Ginobili made $9.9 million this season :smokin

[urunobili]

That's just wrong.

Daffy where were you? :toast

[SenorSpur]

Thabeet is going to be a freaking stiff.

He's samuel dalembert all over again..

or Yinka Dare

[EricB]

or Yinka Dare


I'm telling you this guy is set up for Sean Bradley esque fail.

He has horrible touch around the rim, his offensive game is very very raw and just robot like.

I would stay very far away from Thabeet.

[DAF86]

Daffy where were you? :toast

Escaping from Lakers fans.















And studying

[urunobili]

Escaping from Lakers fans

THere's nothing lamer than a Laker fan in Argentina... have had some arguments with them... in uruguay there are several... I lost 25bucks on a bet on the Championship winner with a work colleague that we did at the beginning of the playoffs... i chose the choking Cavaliers...

[angelbelow]

good article

[DAF86]

THere's nothing lamer than a Laker fan in Argentina... have had some arguments with them... in uruguay there are several... I lost 25bucks on a bet on the Championship winner with a work colleague that we did at the beginning of the playoffs... i chose the choking Cavaliers...

:lol Luckily I don't know any Lakers fan here in my town. I tried to stay away from NBA news ever since the finals ended, but I heard about the Jefferson trade on ESPN and I knew it was time to come back :D

[K-State Spur]

I still think we should have sent him to Washington for a year, then moved up from the 5 to get Thabeet. Big men are risky, but the reward is worth it, and developing under TD would also lessen the chance that he would bust.

just a thought

even if you love thabeet (and in terms of winning another championship before duncan retires, manu >>>>>>> thabeet) - there is no way that you make that trade before the #4 pick has been announced. this draft could get crazy and thabeet could still go as high as 2.

so even if you're HUGE on thabeet (and i'm definitely not), you don't trade manu until you know that you can get him. the return of a jordan hill just isn't anywhere near enough.

if somebody else is willing to do that deal with washington earlier (like minnesota), you tip your cap to them and say 'fair enough.'

[Mark in Austin]

Lucas Victoriano. And supposedly the Spurs picked Ginobili because Victoriano was a PG and Buford didn't think an international PG would survive under Pop.

I think now that the Spurs have abandoned the 2010 plan, giving Ginobili an extension this summer makes sense. Even considering his injury risk, it's best to lock him up now for a reasonable contract than play it out. Even if he gets hurt again, I wouldn't be willing to give up on him.

Something like a 2-year, $16-18 million extension now probably makes sense for both sides.


Agreed. The Spurs will be over the cap anyway. Might as well extend. If he gets injured and can't play that's what insurance is for. At this point, extending Manu has a pretty limited risk financially; and might be made up in goodwill generated from doing the extension now. 2yrs/$18M sounds about right.