O'Neal Is Set To Be Best Since Jordan

[duncan228]

O'Neal Is Set To Be Best Since Jordan (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/26/AR2009062603633.html)
By Mike Wise
The Washington Post

When the rumor first gained genuine steam some two weeks ago, Kobe Bryant's championship night was nearly upstaged. When the trade officially went through Thursday, Blake Griffin's big moment was shoved to the back burner.

The Orlando Magic, meanwhile, heard footsteps ominous enough to make the defending Eastern Conference champions go out and procure Vince Carter later that day.

And now, two days later, the reverberations of Shaquille O'Neal pairing with LeBron James in Cleveland are still being felt, with Shaq undeniably gaining an upper hand on Kobe and Tim Duncan in the race for a fifth NBA championship ring.

All of which begs the question: More than 10 years after Michael Jordan announced his second retirement, who is the most accomplished player of the post-Jordan generation: Shaq, Kobe or Duncan?

When I broached that question two weeks ago, before Game 5 of the NBA Finals, to some pretty decent basketball minds -- Jack Ramsay, Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith, Jeff Van Gundy and Mark Jackson -- Duncan was almost a unanimous choice.

While all three players have four rings, the thinking went that Duncan was the No. 1 player on all four of San Antonio's title teams; Shaq rode Dwyane Wade to his fourth in Miami and Kobe rode Shaq for his first three in Los Angeles.

"I think I might go for Kobe," Dr. Jack said, dissenting. "Because of the way down the stretch in big games he almost always comes up with the necessary play. There's a killer instinct about him that I don't see in the other three guys as much."

But no one considered Shaq, who, like Duncan, has three Finals MVP awards, and unlike anyone since Jordan and the Chicago Bulls, has been to six NBA Finals and won four.

Maybe because, at age 37, they figured O'Neal was physically done, despite playing more games last season (75) than he did the previous eight years. Maybe because his name has superseded his game, and all the juvenile sideshow antics have prejudiced too many ultra-serious hoopheads.

But a year from now, if O'Neal becomes a big reason why LeBron earns his first NBA title next season, he will have played with the three most breathtaking players since Jordan re-retired from the Bulls in 1998 after six titles. Remarkably, Shaq will have been to the NBA Finals one more time than Jordan, and with four -- count them, four -- different teams.

How would that not make the Diesel the most important player of his generation?

Look, the moment this trade was made Shaq was back, in the thick of it again after the Suns inexplicably missed the playoffs.

The idea that his half-court plodding will hurt LeBron's full-court levitation is just silly. Half-court basketball wins in the NBA when it matters -- just ask the Suns, the Mavericks, the Kings and any team coached by Don Nelson how many push-the-tempo clubs have won titles the past 20 years.

The Cavs acquiring O'Neal wasn't just a statement from Cleveland General Manager Danny Ferry to LeBron about the franchise's championship-level commitment; it was good business for a club that now has to be a favorite to win the 2010 title.

The moment the trade happened, the Lakers knew they had to re-sign Lamar Odom and Trevor Ariza or else. And the aging Celtics, the not-ready-for-prime-time Magic and hopeful second- and third-tier contenders like the Wizards were in a heap of trouble -- trouble no watered-down NBA draft could fix.

My friend Wilbon thinks the Wizards passed on the second coming of Pistol Pete on Thursday. Maybe in three years Ricky Rubio becomes that player. Today, the fifth-picked Spanish Chocolate is a sweet diversion but hardly nourishing enough at 18 years old to deliver a playoff run into late May.

These are the Win-Now-or-Back-Up-the-Truck Wizards. Ernie Grunfeld hitched his legacy to Gilbert Arenas, Caron Butler and, at least for now, Antawn Jamison. Unless his name was Earvin Johnson, throwing a teenager into that mix at this juncture is playing with fire.

The Wizards need to move at least past the first round of the playoffs and appear on the verge this season or the contender window looks that much closer to shutting on this era. They won't win the East next year because of what just happened in Cleveland and Orlando. But it would be a start.

About the best they can hope for is the best the other teams in the league can hope for after Wednesday: that Shaquille O'Neal has only one good year left to play alongside the best young player in the NBA.

[Thompson]

So LeBron James and 38-year-old Shaq are better than Duncan, Jefferson, Ginobili, and Parker? Seriously?

[sook]

So LeBron James and 38-year-old Shaq are better than Duncan, Jefferson, Ginobili, and Parker? Seriously?

How the fuck is Shaq better than Duncan and Kobe?:lol

[Leetonidas]

This is ridiculous. Duncan is definitely the most accomplished since Jordan. All four of his titles are as the main man. Three Finals MVPs, two regular season MVPs (back-to-back)...how many regular season MVPs does Shaq have?

[21_Blessings]

Kobe did not ride Shaq to 3 titles like Shaq gravy trained Wade in 2006. Was Shaq the number 1 option during crunch time in 2006? Was he Miami's best defender? Thought so.

[duncan228]

This is ridiculous. Duncan is definitely the most accomplished since Jordan. All four of his titles are as the main man. Three Finals MVPs, two regular season MVPs (back-to-back)...how many regular season MVPs does Shaq have?

The article is based on an if...if Shaq wins with LeBron will his stock rise?

Duncan is considered the most accomplished since Jordan by many. In this case, the writer asked 5 "basketball minds", 4 picked Duncan, one Kobe, none Shaq.

Oh, and Shaq has one regular season MVP. :)

[phyzik]

I wouldnt be suprised if Shaq pushes the Cavs past the Magic but I think a healthy Celtics team will be waiting and close that door again. Even if the Cavs make it back to the finals, the Lakers or Spurs (pending a good FA pickup) will dominate them.

[Thompson]

O'Neal Is Set To Be Best Since Jordan (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/26/AR2009062603633.html)
And now, two days later, the reverberations of Shaquille O'Neal pairing with LeBron James in Cleveland are still being felt, with Shaq undeniably gaining an upper hand on Kobe and Tim Duncan in the race for a fifth NBA championship ring.


This is the part I objected to. Shaq does not have an advantage over either of those two, unless the author is referring to playing in the Eastern Conference.

[Extra Stout]

How nice for the NBA that just a month after the Cavs were exposed, a Diesel delivered another shipment of smoke and mirrors, enough to last another year.

[Jace]

Garbage article, riding up and coming stars to rings doesn't make you the best since Jordan.

[bdictjames]

Duncan has made the playoffs every season after Jordan. Kobe missed one; Shaq missed two.

[dbreiden83080]

Shaq running from team to team in the last years of his career desperately trying to get one more ring, is not putting him over Duncan even if he gets it. Timmy is never playing for anyone but the Spurs, in all likelihood. He's not gonna run from place to place like Shaq has.. And if we can get Manu healthy with the addition of Jefferson, we're better than the Cavs anyway.

[JamStone]

O'Neal Is Set To Be Best Since Jordan (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/26/AR2009062603633.html)
By Mike Wise
The Washington Post


And now, two days later, the reverberations of Shaquille O'Neal pairing with LeBron James in Cleveland are still being felt, with Shaq undeniably gaining an upper hand on Kobe and Tim Duncan in the race for a fifth NBA championship ring.


The Cavs acquiring O'Neal wasn't just a statement from Cleveland General Manager Danny Ferry to LeBron about the franchise's championship-level commitment; it was good business for a club that now has to be a favorite to win the 2010 title.


The moment the trade happened, the Lakers knew they had to re-sign Lamar Odom and Trevor Ariza or else. And the aging Celtics, the not-ready-for-prime-time Magic and hopeful second- and third-tier contenders like the Wizards were in a heap of trouble -- trouble no watered-down NBA draft could fix.

Oh, the irony of blatantly idiotic commentary by an author named "Wise."

[Phenomanul]

The fact that two of the three players considered for that distinction had the benefit of playing as teammates (Shaq & Kobe) automatically makes the third player's accomplishments (Duncan) all the more significant...

[Allanon]

Shaq,Duncan and Kobe are like 1a, 1b and 1c. Take your pick.

Next guy to win a ring is at the head of this post-Jordan generation. And ironically, all 3 have a chance to win it all.

Should be a great year and my bet is one of those 3 will get Ring #5.

[picnroll]

I guess based on the logic of this article hHorry with his eight rings is GOAT. Shaw will basically be a role player to get past Howard. Kobe was second banana for three of his rings.

[ambchang]

Kobe doesn't even belong in the conversation for now. He has had one championship as the main man. Shaq had 3, Duncan had 3. Shaq and Duncan also dominated the league in their primes that Kobe never did.

Kobe is getting ridiculously overrated at this point, even more so than he was, which I originally thought was impossible.

[monosylab1k]

Kobe doesn't even belong in the conversation for now. He has had one championship as the main man. Shaq had 3, Duncan had 3.

Which championship was Duncan not considered the "main man"? I know Parker won Finals MVP one year, but come on.

[Killakobe81]

It has to be Duncan with Kobe a close 2nd ...Shaq had wayy more help i his first 3 than Duncan then Wade carried hm=im down the stretch in his 4th ...Duncan has won with HOF'er David and without him Shaq NEEDS a supertsar or he can't win ...Duncan and Kobe now have both won with just all-stars...end of story.

[Killakobe81]

Kobe doesn't even belong in the conversation for now. He has had one championship as the main man. Shaq had 3, Duncan had 3. Shaq and Duncan also dominated the league in their primes that Kobe never did.

Kobe is getting ridiculously overrated at this point, even more so than he was, which I originally thought was impossible.

Shaq isthe overrated one my misinformed friend! Come on, Shaq to the Cavs = chamionship? HOw is that not overrating him? The ESPN guys were sucking his nutz except Mark Jackson ...

As for Kobe how is he overrated when MANY here in the media were saying he could not win withjout SHAQ and that he rode Shaq to the Finals BOTH are falsshoods ...Shaq has not won a title as the main superstar in the way Hakeem, Duncan or to some extent Jordan has. Yes Pippen was a HOF'er but he was OVERRATED not Kobe ...as is SHAQ ...as the primary main man Shaq has led his team to many a playoff sweep. Check the history books. 2000 he was the most dominant force in the world and he had 3 or 4 more dominant playoff runs but outside of that itz all hype cuz many in the media and on this board love his wack ass jokes and his juvenile freestyles or because he punked your team during his glory years ...

[lefty]

Shaq is done.

THe only people he intimidates now are midgets.........

http://rookery2.viary.com/storagev12/954000/954304_89d9_625x1000.jpg

[velik_m]

If Shaq is so great, why do teams keep trading him?

[JamStone]

Why do good teams keep trading for him?

[ffadicted]

At this point, Shaq could ride Lebron to 3 more 'chips and I'd still say Duncan and Kobe over him

[Banzai]

Why do good teams keep trading for him?

CWqPnEGzfK8

[redzero]

Why do Cleveland bandwagoners believe that they are destined for a championship? No one team is the clear cut favorite.

[VivaPopovich]

jordan was also a defensive stopper

shaq isnt known for offensive rebounds and help-side D

i'd love to see him man up on the likes of blake and yao

[sonic21]

imo it's a tie beetween timmy and shaq, Kobe doesn't belong in the conversation (yet?).

Shaq was better in his prime. He was unstoppable but timmy has more consistently maintained a high level of play and was clearly a better defender.

[Tully365]

Although he is unquestionably one of the greats of this era, Shaq is a hard one to judge. On the one hand there was a 5+ year period when he was the single most unstoppable player in the league. On the other hand, his accomplishments seem to fall a little short of what they should've been, considering his dominance and the amount of talent he had around him. Shaq grew organically as a player, but he didn't specifically and willfully address his shortcomings-- free-throw shooting, conditioning-- and often was too busy in the off-season making movies, cutting CDs, etc. In the second half of his career, it almost became a given that Shaq would begin the season out of shape and "play his way" back into it. Looking back at the Detroit/Laker finals of '04 it still strikes me as incredible that the Piston won, and in only 5 games. Shaq's accomplishments are undeniable, but if he'd had the dedication and focus of a Bill Russell or a Magic Johnson, he probably would've won at least two or three more titles.

[lefty]

at this point, shaq could ride lebron to 3 more bags of chips and i'd still say duncan and kobe over him

fify

[IronMexican]

Kobe did not ride Shaq to 3 titles like Shaq gravy trained Wade in 2006. Was Shaq the number 1 option during crunch time in 2006? Was he Miami's best defender? Thought so.

Shit like this is retarded. Kobe didn't ride Shaq in 2000,2001,2002. Shaq didn't ride Wade in 2006. Riding is the type of shit Mitch Richmond did for a ring.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

^or Robert Parish w/ the Bulls

[ambchang]

Which championship was Duncan not considered the "main man"? I know Parker won Finals MVP one year, but come on.

I was just erring on the conservative side on that one in case people brought up the MVP argument.

But I also should have thought of the awesome comeback of "Shaq didn't get the ball in the 4th quarter, therefore Kobe was actually the man" crap. But that one was so utterly stupid, I can't really come up with anything to counter.

It's like saying Ginobili > Duncan, because Ginobili gets the ball in the 4th to create.

[BUMP]

Shaq deserves credit for what he did in Miami. Yeah Wade stepped it up big in the Finals, but before he came to the Heat, they were first round fodder.

[ambchang]

Shaq isthe overrated one my misinformed friend! Come on, Shaq to the Cavs = chamionship? HOw is that not overrating him? The ESPN guys were sucking his nutz except Mark Jackson ...

As for Kobe how is he overrated when MANY here in the media were saying he could not win withjout SHAQ and that he rode Shaq to the Finals BOTH are falsshoods ...Shaq has not won a title as the main superstar in the way Hakeem, Duncan or to some extent Jordan has. Yes Pippen was a HOF'er but he was OVERRATED not Kobe ...as is SHAQ ...as the primary main man Shaq has led his team to many a playoff sweep. Check the history books. 2000 he was the most dominant force in the world and he had 3 or 4 more dominant playoff runs but outside of that itz all hype cuz many in the media and on this board love his wack ass jokes and his juvenile freestyles or because he punked your team during his glory years ...

Who is saying the Cavs will win with Shaq? And since when was ESPN anykind of objective medium?

Kobe couldn't win without Shaq before this season. That was a fact. It's no longer true.
Kobe did ride Shaq to 3 championships. You mentioned Shaq was the most dominant in 2000, so why was he overrated?
I actually hate Shaq, I think he is an attention whore, but you cannot deny the fact that he was dominant in the early century.
And Pippen overrated? Are you kidding me? That man was one of the best perimeter the league has ever seen. And he was a great facilitator on offense.

[scottspurs]

I think you have to say Duncan because he was the only post jordan player loyal to his original team. Tim decided to play his entire career for the San Antonio Spurs. Kobe has played his entire career for the Lakers but he was drafted by the hornets, bitched about it and was traded because he gave the hornets no choice. Shaq went for the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and left to LA. then cried about Kobe and demanded a trade to Miam. then cried again when Miami went downhill and got traded to the suns then again to the Cavs. Since they are tied in championship I believe you have to give Duncan the upperhand for actually being loyal to his team, truly one of the best qualities a player can have in sports.

[IronMexican]

Shaq deserves credit for what he did in Miami. Yeah Wade stepped it up big in the Finals, but before he came to the Heat, they were first round fodder.

Eh, not sure about that. I think they beat the Hornets in the first round with Wade as a rookie.

Williams, Wade, Butler, Odom, Mourning(I think?) is a pretty good starting 5.

[James David Manning]

Eh, not sure about that. I think they beat the Hornets in the first round with Wade as a rookie.

Williams, Wade, Butler, Odom, Mourning(I think?) is a pretty good starting 5.


Sons it's good to see I've got so much support.

[cobbler]

I guess based on the logic of this article hHorry with his eight rings is GOAT. Shaw will basically be a role player to get past Howard. Kobe was second banana for three of his rings.

Actually by that logic the GOAT is Russell. 10 > 8

[Phenomanul]

The fact that two of the three players considered for that distinction had the benefit of playing alongside each other as teammates (Shaq & Kobe) automatically makes the third player's accomplishments (Duncan) all the more significant...

Again... this is a mathematical proof...

/Thread

[crc21209]

Shaq has been traded too many damn times to be considered on "Jordan level".

[IronMexican]

Shaq is kind of like Dennis Erickson. You want loyalty, get a dog. If you want to win, get Shaq.

[ambchang]

Actually by that logic the GOAT is Russell. 10 > 8

11 and 7