Obama: California is the model for our economy

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Well, stick a fork in us and our economy. That must be some good reefer he's smoking in the WH...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-on-Energy/


And, now, just last Friday, the House of Representatives came together to pass an extraordinary piece of legislation that will finally open the door to decreasing our dependence on foreign oil, preventing the worst consequences of climate change, and making clean energy the profitable kind of energy. Thanks to members of Congress who were willing to place America's progress before the usual Washington politics, this bill will create new businesses, new industries, and millions of new jobs, all without imposing untenable new burdens on the American people or America's businesses.

We know the benefits. In the late 1970s, the state of California enacted tougher energy-efficiency policies. Over the next three decades, those policies helped create almost 1.5 million jobs. And today, Californians consume 40 percent less energy per person than the national average -- which, over time, has prevented the need to build at least 24 new power plants. Think about that. California -- producing jobs, their economy keeping pace with the rest of the country, and yet they have been able to maintain their energy usage at a much lower level than the rest of the country.

In other news...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/25/us/25calif.html?hp


Signaling that California is slipping deeper into financial crisis, the state’s controller said Wednesday that his office would soon be forced to issue i.o.u.’s to scores of the state’s creditors, as lawmakers failed at their first attempt as a body to close the state’s multibillion-dollar shortfall.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-california-jobless20-2009jun20,0,3863292.story


California unemployment rises to record 11.5% in May


The state lost 68,900 jobs in May as unemployment rose from a revised 11.1% in April and 6.8% in May 2008. This is the highest rate since the national record-keeping system began in 1976.

http://www.plantengineering.com/article/307038-Why_is_California_bleeding_manufacturing_jobs_.php


A new report by the Milken Institute shows California has lost more than one-quarter of its manufacturing jobs since 2000, with some of the sharpest declines in the high-tech manufacturing sector.

The job loss in California is much higher than in neighboring states, and so not all of the job loss is being pinned on foreign migration of jobs. In fact, wages higher than the national average and intrusive regulation from the California Legislature gets most of the blame, according to experts.

The study found California has lost 26% of its manufacturing jobs, and 35% of the manufacturing jobs in the high-tech area. The Milken Institute performed tyhe study for the California Manufacturers and technology Association, which told the San Francisco Chronicle that regulation was making the state less atrtractive to manufacturers.

"Everyone says the regulatory burden in California is too much," Gino DiCaro, spokesman for the Manufacturers Association, told the Chronicle. "Over time, we're dropping off the list of states that companies are willing to consider."

http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_12703761


California's unemployment insurance fund is already operating in the red and may not be sufficient to meet the rapidly increasing demand for unemployment benefits.

The rate of the state's unemployed reached a record-breaking 11.5 percent in May. The unemployment rate in San Bernardino and Riverside counties hit 13 percent.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1940d18e-64cf-11de-a13f-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1


Once the US’s richest state, California now has the dubious distinction of having the worst credit rating in the country.

The state is also likely to issue IOUs to the US government. California currently contributes funding for government-run programmes for elderly and developmentally disabled people but is considering issuing IOUs to cover its contributions because of the lack of cash.

:shootme

[Bender]

what would possess him to say that...? Is he mentally deficient or something?

[CosmicCowboy]

what would possess him to say that...? Is he mentally deficient or something?

He has an agenda. It's not your's or mine or anyone's who has a real job or produces anything.

Facts have no place in this argument. You are clearly a right wing extremist and Homeland Security has you clearly in their crosshairs.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

what would possess him to say that...? Is he mentally deficient or something?

What do you expect? He's got an agenda, and it's not the economic prosperity of America.

[Bender]

yeah I know his agenda. But I would think the entire country knows that CA is in the crapper in every way possible.

So I thought it was kind of dumb to use CA as a role model for anything.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

yeah I know his agenda. But I would think the entire country knows that CA is in the crapper in every way possible.

So I thought it was kind of dumb to use CA as a role model for anything.

It is, unless you have the same liberal agenda as those who ran that state into the ground.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

i wonder when people are going to actually start processing everything that's going on lately.

[CosmicCowboy]

i wonder when people are going to actually start processing everything that's going on lately.

Just watch another Michael Jackson moonwalk video. You will feel better in the morning knowing you are following the REAL news.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Just watch another Michael Jackson moonwalk video. You will feel better in the morning knowing you are following the REAL news.
sometimes it feels like we're all in a movie. you see a movie and you know "it's just a movie" so you don't react.

[Ignignokt]

there's nuances to the trillion dollar budget.

guys, you've got to get nuancy and progressy.

Change.

[Winehole23]

Eh, Obama showed a tin ear for sure, but the OP amounts to little more than a laborious post hoc fallacy, glued to a clumsy strawman.

[Ignignokt]

do you consider Obama's govt page a strawman? lol!

[sabar]

All you need to make a successful state is to do the opposite of everything that California does on major policy.

[Jacob1983]

Mr. Obama, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[LnGrrrR]

Mr. Obama, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

:lmao

Ok, THAT was good.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Eh, Obama showed a tin ear for sure, but the OP amounts to little more than a laborious post hoc fallacy, glued to a clumsy strawman.

:lmao

1.5 million jobs a year over 30 years is 50,000 jobs a year that he's crowing about.

How many were lost that time?

Do you realize that over 250,000 jobs were created last year in Texas?

You can dismiss it all you want, but there were quotes in that article about regulations on industry causing businesses to leave the state and Cali not being attractive to new business operations.

The same crap that is going to happen to the country as a whole if crap & trade gets passed by the Senate.

So you really think California should be the model for the U.S.? I feel sorry for you, if that's the case.

[jack sommerset]

Mr. Obama, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Yup..... The smart guy actually wants to model our economy after California. Keep saying 3 1/2 more years, 3 1/2 more years, 3 1/2 more years. It's so obviously fucking retarded the Obama fags can't defend so once again they say stupid ass shit like " Go back and watch ur Michael Jackson videos" Seriously the Obama dems are some of the dumbest people I have ever ever been around in my life.

I can hear it now when more jobs are lost and the new "stimulus" bill is presented because the old one was to pay back for his election. "These are tough times we are in, I inherited a big mess, sure we want CHANGE but it doesn't happen overnight,infact it does not happen over 4 years, when you go to sleep at night just blame Bush" The idiots and fags will cheer and cheer and tell everyone who will listen Obama is so smart.

[Winehole23]

The same crap that is going to happen to the country as a whole if crap & trade gets passed by the Senate.That's the post hoc fallacy. California is in trouble because its people demand services they refuse to pay for. The Chicken Little routine does not convince.


So you really think California should be the model for the U.S.? I feel sorry for you, if that's the case.And this is another strawman.

I called Obama a tin ear over this, remember?

[SonOfAGun]

This country is so fucked.

[coyotes_geek]

That's the post hoc fallacy. California is in trouble because its people demand services they refuse to pay for.

And that's different from the rest of the nation?

If the federal government were ever faced with the "horrific" dilemma of having to balance the budget the entire nation would be freaking out just as bad as California is.

[Winehole23]

And that's different from the rest of the nation?The rest of the nation doesn't face imminent bankruptcy and default like California. It's a difference of degree, but a significant one IMO.


If the federal government were ever faced with the "horrific" dilemma of having to balance the budget the entire nation would be freaking out just as bad as California is.I agree. I wish we were freaking out about it already.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why should we expect the government of a people who leverage themselves to the hilt to behave any differently?

[101A]

...and yet they have been able to maintain their energy usage at a much lower level than the rest of the country.

California uses less energy than the rest of the country per person.

HMMMMMMM.

What makes YOUR utility bill rise the most?

For me, in Pennsylvania, it is heating the air in my house when it is 2 degrees outside.

In Texas, it is cooling the air in your house when it is 102 degrees outside.

In California - where it's almost never too hot, or too cold....hell, you do the math. They better damn well be using less energy than the rest of us!

Disingenuous, and ignorant.

[Extra Stout]

California uses less energy than the rest of the country per person.
HMMMMMMM.
What makes YOUR utility bill rise the most?
For me, in Pennsylvania, it is heating the air in my house when it is 2 degrees outside.
In Texas, it is cooling the air in your house when it is 102 degrees outside.
In California - where it's almost never too hot, or too cold....hell, you do the math. They better damn well be using less energy than the rest of us!
Disingenuous, and ignorant.

From recent DOE data:
Residential energy consumption makes up 22% of total energy consumption in the U.S. Of that, roughly 50% is for heating and cooling. Commercial energy consumption is 19% of the total, and of that 20% is for heating and cooling. By my math, that comes to 15% of total energy usage in the U.S. being for the purposes of heating and cooling.

What of the other 85%?

101A, you know better than this.

[DarkReign]

From recent DOE data:
Residential energy consumption makes up 22% of total energy consumption in the U.S. Of that, roughly 50% is for heating and cooling. Commercial energy consumption is 19% of the total, and of that 20% is for heating and cooling. By my math, that comes to 15% of total energy usage in the U.S. being for the purposes of heating and cooling.

What of the other 85%?

101A, you know better than this.

It amazes me that the combined total for residential and commercial energy useage only equals 41% of total energy usage.

That leaves 59% to vehicles and everything else.

[Extra Stout]

It amazes me that the combined total for residential and commercial energy useage only equals 41% of total energy usage.

That leaves 59% to vehicles and everything else.
Industrial 31%
Transportation 28%

[101A]

From recent DOE data:
Residential energy consumption makes up 22% of total energy consumption in the U.S. Of that, roughly 50% is for heating and cooling. Commercial energy consumption is 19% of the total, and of that 20% is for heating and cooling. By my math, that comes to 15% of total energy usage in the U.S. being for the purposes of heating and cooling.

What of the other 85%?

101A, you know better than this.

Know better than what?

Obama's quote is:


...and yet they have been able to maintain their energy usage at a much lower level than the rest of the country.

Do you know the definition of "much lower level" is - or to what macro group he is referring to? Obama could have used specific numbers: "The state as a whole uses 40% less energy per capita than the national average." But he didn't. I would be willing to bet that environmental (and by that I mean natural occurring differences in energy consumption requirements) are responsible for all but a fraction of the difference in consuption between Cali. and the rest of us - and the easy way to find this out would be to see if pre - '79 they ALSO used energy "at a much lower level than the rest of the country".

[101A]

ROFL:

[/URL][URL]http://www.eredux.com/states/ (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/Look%20at%20this)

That shows that, in fact, California has the lowest Carbon output per capita of all but one other state - obviously supporting Obama's contention. They are bested by one one state in the Union! What is that state? Sure an enlighted, liberal bastion of environmental open-mindedness! Washingon, maybe Oregon?

Nope.

Texas.

That's right - our no income tax, no-regulating, bring your corporations down here, let the Mexican trucks drive all over the blasted place red-neck asses are #1 in per-captita carbon emissions.

Nice.

[Marcus Bryant]

Should much stock be put in state by state rankings? A heavy emissions state may just be bearing the emissions required to produce power, products, etc... consumed in other states.

[Jacob1983]

Obama is a dumbass for saying that stuff. Isn't California like tied with Michigan for being the state that's fucked the most right now when it comes to debt, high house prices, and unemployment?

[baseline bum]

California uses less energy than the rest of the country per person.

HMMMMMMM.

What makes YOUR utility bill rise the most?

For me, in Pennsylvania, it is heating the air in my house when it is 2 degrees outside.

In Texas, it is cooling the air in your house when it is 102 degrees outside.

In California - where it's almost never too hot, or too cold....hell, you do the math. They better damn well be using less energy than the rest of us!

Disingenuous, and ignorant.

That's not accurate at all. Much of California is insanely hot. Just going by the area around LA, the San Fernando Valley is very densely populated and is much hotter than San Antonio or Austin on bad days and about as bad on average. Simi Valley, Thousand Oaks, Valencia, and lots of other LA suburbs on the northside are nasty in the summer; temperatures in the 110-115 range aren't uncommon in suburbs like Woodland Hills. Anything east of the city is hot also. When you get out to cities like Riverside, San Bernadino, and especially Palm Springs, you're talking 110s-120s on bad days in the summer, and high 100s on average. That famous Mediterranean climate of LA doesn't extend too far inland because of all the mountains near the city that form rain shields and stop the cool ocean breeze.

[101A]

Should much stock be put in state by state rankings? A heavy emissions state may just be bearing the emissions required to produce power, products, etc... consumed in other states.

Logic?

What is that doing in here?

This is a thread about an Obama policy initiative. Logic has no place in it.

[coyotes_geek]

Should much stock be put in state by state rankings? A heavy emissions state may just be bearing the emissions required to produce power, products, etc... consumed in other states.

That would make sense, but then wouldn't that work against Texas? Texas does refine a good chunk of the nation's petroleum.

[boutons_deux]

CA cuts/limits taxes like conservatives love, ends up in a ditch with a bankrupt state and a severely degraded CA university system (once the envy of the world and basis for CA's incredible wealth and innovation), and conservatives still aren't happy.

[101A]

That's not accurate at all. Much of California is insanely hot. Just going by the area around LA, the San Fernando Valley is very densely populated and is much hotter than San Antonio or Austin on bad days and about as bad on average. Simi Valley, Thousand Oaks, Valencia, and lots of other LA suburbs on the northside are nasty in the summer; temperatures in the 110-115 range aren't uncommon in suburbs like Woodland Hills. Anything east of the city is hot also. When you get out to cities like Riverside, San Bernadino, and especially Palm Springs, you're talking 110s-120s on bad days in the summer, and high 100s on average. That famous Mediterranean climate of LA doesn't extend too far inland because of all the mountains near the city that form rain shields and stop the cool ocean breeze.

Just checked Intellicast - for the next TEN days - the projected high for LA is 79 freaking degrees - in the same period, San Antonio has LOWS that are higher than that!

79 for a high - yeah, in NOVEMBER!!!!!

[101A]

CA cuts/limits taxes like conservatives love, ends up in a ditch with a bankrupt state and a severely degraded CA university system (once the envy of the world and basis for CA's incredible wealth and innovation), and conservatives still aren't happy.

Their taxes are STILL higher than just about everywhere else in the nation! "Limits" and "Cuts" are relative.

They've got God's own climate, every reason for people to want to move there, and they fuck it up with onerous taxation and regulation! They have bankrupted themselves - and liberals STILL can't see why it happened, and want to do it to the rest of us!

[coyotes_geek]

CA cuts/limits taxes like conservatives love, ends up in a ditch with a bankrupt state and a severely degraded CA university system (once the envy of the world and basis for CA's incredible wealth and innovation), and conservatives still aren't happy.

I'll bet the liberals are happy though. They're having great success in running off rich people and those evil corporations.

[baseline bum]

Just checked Intellicast - for the next TEN days - the projected high for LA is 79 freaking degrees - in the same period, San Antonio has LOWS that are higher than that!

79 for a high - yeah, in NOVEMBER!!!!!

Have you ever been to LA? It's surrounded by densely populated deserts. Why are you so defensive about a point you made that is dead wrong? The city itself isn't in the rain shield. The huge suburbs it has to the north and the east are.

[Extra Stout]

ROFL:

[/URL][URL]http://www.eredux.com/states/ (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/Look%20at%20this)

That shows that, in fact, California has the lowest Carbon output per capita of all but one other state - obviously supporting Obama's contention. They are bested by one one state in the Union! What is that state? Sure an enlighted, liberal bastion of environmental open-mindedness! Washingon, maybe Oregon?

Nope.

Texas.

That's right - our no income tax, no-regulating, bring your corporations down here, let the Mexican trucks drive all over the blasted place red-neck asses are #1 in per-captita carbon emissions.

Nice.

:rolleyes

You read the graph wrong, moron. Texas isn't #1 in terms of lowest carbon emissions per capita. It's #1 in highest carbon emissions overall. California is #2. In terms of lowest carbon emissions per capita, Texas is #41 and California is #5.

I'm sorry I ever took you seriously.

[Obstructed_View]

That's not accurate at all. Much of California is insanely hot. Just going by the area around LA, the San Fernando Valley is very densely populated and is much hotter than San Antonio or Austin on bad days and about as bad on average. Simi Valley, Thousand Oaks, Valencia, and lots of other LA suburbs on the northside are nasty in the summer; temperatures in the 110-115 range aren't uncommon in suburbs like Woodland Hills. Anything east of the city is hot also. When you get out to cities like Riverside, San Bernadino, and especially Palm Springs, you're talking 110s-120s on bad days in the summer, and high 100s on average. That famous Mediterranean climate of LA doesn't extend too far inland because of all the mountains near the city that form rain shields and stop the cool ocean breeze.

120s? :lol

[baseline bum]

120s? :lol

Yeah, occasionally it gets in the low 120s. High 110s are very common.

[Marcus Bryant]

That would make sense, but then wouldn't that work against Texas? Texas does refine a good chunk of the nation's petroleum.

Yes it does. Texas bears a lot of the pollution that allows other states to claim lower emission rankings...and politicians of a certain stripe to denigrate Texas as a heretic at the church of environmentalism.

[101A]

Have you ever been to LA? It's surrounded by densely populated deserts. Why are you so defensive about a point you made that is dead wrong? The city itself isn't in the rain shield. The huge suburbs it has to the north and the east are.

Give me a zip code; I really will believe you - show me the historical data of 110 - 120 degree temps - it's all out there, back to the 19th century in many cases.

[Extra Stout]

The states besides California that do well on these rankings are New York and the New England states. Clearly it is their balmy Mediterranean climate that makes the difference.

[101A]

:rolleyes

You read the graph wrong, moron. Texas isn't #1 in terms of lowest carbon emissions per capita. It's #1 in highest carbon emissions overall. California is #2. In terms of lowest carbon emissions per capita, Texas is #41 and California is #5.

I'm sorry I ever took you seriously.

Looked again, you're right; was exciting for a few minutes, however.

Take seriously whomever you'd like.

[coyotes_geek]

Yes it does. Texas bears a lot of the pollution that allows other states to claim lower emission rankings...and politicians of a certain stripe to denigrate Texas as a heretic at the church of environmentalism.

Ironic considering Texas also happens to produce a third of the nation's wind generation capacity.

[baseline bum]

Give me a zip code; I really will believe you - show me the historical data of 110 - 120 degree temps - it's all out there, back to the 19th century in many cases.

Here's June of last year in Palm Springs (12 days 110 or over):

http://www.desertweather.com/blog/june-08-temperature-summary-for-palm-springs.htm

[Extra Stout]

Too bad that thanks to Quick Draw McGraw, his love for shooting from the hip, and his insistence that the lamppost thirty feet to the left of the target really was what he was aiming at, we get to argue about the high temperature in Palm Springs rather than to what extent the energy efficiency in states like New York and California is a function of "green awareness" and to what extent it is a function of high population density, urban lifestyles, and lack of energy-intensive industry -- things which can't necessarily be generalized to the whole country.

[101A]

The states besides California that do well on these rankings are New York and the New England states. Clearly it is their balmy Mediterranean climate that makes the difference.


O.K., fine, it's not the weather; my premise (besides that) was that it also IS NOT the California regulations. Any ideas what it is?

Edit:

Nevermind; you just did, let's talk about those.
-QDMG

[101A]

Here's June of last year in Palm Springs (12 days 110 or over):

http://www.desertweather.com/blog/june-08-temperature-summary-for-palm-springs.htm



mmmmm. Crow.

[Marcus Bryant]

Ironic considering Texas also happens to produce a third of the nation's wind generation capacity.

Sure. How much of that is due to piggybacking on other investments already made in power transmission?

[Bender]

I lived in CA twice when I was a kid. First time in San Diego back in 1968 plus or minus one year, and then again in 1971-1973 near Oxnard (north of LA).

I remember it being "like spring" all year long. Of course, I could be wrong... :lol

yeah, in eastern CA, at least the places I've been too (Needles, Barstow, etc) it was #@!% hot !!
When we drove thru Needles in august 1973 while moving to san antonio TX, it was 114 degrees.

[Extra Stout]

I read two estimates of how much of CA's energy efficiency over the national average is structural, and how much is due to energy inititiatives.

One said 20%.

The other said 50%. It had a rather obvious flaw, though -- it was looking at efficiency in terms of $GDP/kWh, which heavily distorted the numbers in favor of wealthy states.

If I'm being generous, I might assume the 20% number was influenced by a pro-energy agenda and give California 30%. Tops.

[coyotes_geek]

Sure. How much of that is due to piggybacking on other investments already made in power transmission?

Good question, and one I unfortunately do not know the answer to.

[SonOfAGun]

I can't wait until the State's Wars.

Cali-Texas battle will be epic. You be Athens, we'll be Sparta.

[Extra Stout]

I can't wait until the State's Wars.

Cali-Texas battle will be epic. You be Athens, we'll be Sparta.

Nah, the Mexicans will push all the liberals north. Los Angeles will be the capital of glorious Aztlan.

[Wild Cobra]

120s? :lol

Even in Oregon, we have some areas that get hot. East of the Cascade Mountains is primarily desert. One year when I lived in The Dalles, it was 122F in my back yard, in the shade. granted, to break 120 is uncommon, but not rare. The official temperature of The Dalles is taken at the Airport like most places. It probably reads as much as 10 degrees cooler than the real temperate away from the river. The Dalles Airport effectively was the Columbia River on three sides of it, and if the Spillway of the Dam is open, that cools the readings also with a common east wind. Looking at Thursday's prediction for The Dalles, it's suppose to be a high of 98F. It will probably be between 105 and 110 where I used to live.

Google: The Dalles, Oregon (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=The+Dalles,+Oregon&sll=37.509726,-95.712891&sspn=40.794343,53.261719&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=12)

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/satellite%20view/TheDalles-2-1.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/satellite%20view/TheDallesDam-1.jpg

[Wild Cobra]

I read two estimates of how much of CA's energy efficiency over the national average is structural, and how much is due to energy inititiatives.

One said 20%.

The other said 50%. It had a rather obvious flaw, though -- it was looking at efficiency in terms of $GDP/kWh, which heavily distorted the numbers in favor of wealthy states.

If I'm being generous, I might assume the 20% number was influenced by a pro-energy agenda and give California 30%. Tops.
I would say it's largely because they suck of the hydro power of Oregon and Washington, and use the Pacific DC Intertie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_DC_Intertie) to steal our power. At least for the LA area. I don't think there is any way of matching California's power structure, because we have tapped the larger rivers already for hydroelectric power, and cannot substantially increase it beyond what we have. At least not without severe environmental impacts.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/satellite%20view/TheDalles-2.jpg

Celilo Converter Station:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/satellite%20view/CeliloConverterStation-2.jpg

[hope4dopes]

Cali. has about a 40 BILLION dollar deficit. The federation for american immigration reform estimates that cali. spends about 10.5 billion PER YEAR to host the millions of illegals in the state. Ca. has the biggest population of illegal aliens in the country.
Now, Whinehole says that this 10.5 billion dollars PER YEAR is nothing, a mere red herring, a pittance, and why does he say that...because he is an ideolouge. that is why Ca. is fucked and that's why the Obama vision is fucked because it's based on ideologoue.Not for the good of the people, not for the wishes of the people,but because The entire political class of ca. for the most part are liberal democrats, they have an idea, a whole collection of theory they learned in poli-sci class at the angela davis school for wayward poor little rich girls.
Like Obama they never had real jobs, other than suck off the people who produce wealth through labor, and or get relected and you get relected by promising the wealth of the state to bussiness interests or redistibuting wealth to voting blocks who don't want to work.
Ca. also has a huge legal immigration community that also put tremendous strains on social services.people who don't live in the state can't really fathom the size of these communities because they don't have them in middle america.
Ca. is probably the most radically liberal state in the U.S. and it has lived on debt to create a left wing utopia, but now the chickens have come home to roost and their social experiments and and "sustainable" BE IN is proving not to be sustainable, The choice... rexamine the validity of modern leftist thought on economy,enviroment, culture,education,immigration, politics, or bury your head in the sand and ride this train till it derails.You can see which one Ca. picked,and which one Obama picked.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, occasionally it gets in the low 120s. High 110s are very common.

Hmm. Maybe I didn't look it up right, but the info I found said the record high for that area is 112 in like 1990. I remember a 112 degree day in both San Antonio and Dallas since that time.

[Kori Ellis]

Hmm. Maybe I didn't look it up right, but the info I found said the record high for that area is 112 in like 1990. I remember a 112 degree day in both San Antonio and Dallas since that time.

Palm Springs - High 1 year ago today: 114.4, High 2 years ago today: 110.2
http://www.psview.com/weather/

I think that the Palm Springs area is what Baseline was talking about. 110-115 is pretty regular there in the summer.

San Fernando Valley (adjacent to LA), temps in the 105-110 range aren't uncommon at all.

That being said, this summer in San Antonio has been hot as hell. It's 100+ every time I go outside lately.

[LnGrrrR]

mmmmm. Crow.

Haven't you had your fill this thread? :D

[LnGrrrR]

It's been roughly 90 to 95 degrees here in Biloxi, but the "feels like" temp has been over 100 nearly every other day.

[Winehole23]

Now, Whinehole says that this 10.5 billion dollars PER YEAR is nothing, a mere red herring, a pittance, and why does he say that...because he is an ideolougeYes, micca, I am an *idealounge*.

Obsessed much? :lol

I dare you to find a quote supporting the bolded, or for that matter, waving off Cali's fiscal irresponsibility.

You won't be able to find one, and everyone knows why.



It's because you're a liar, micca.

[Obstructed_View]

Palm Springs - High 1 year ago today: 114.4, High 2 years ago today: 110.2
http://www.psview.com/weather/

I think that the Palm Springs area is what Baseline was talking about. 110-115 is pretty regular there in the summer.

San Fernando Valley (adjacent to LA), temps in the 105-110 range aren't uncommon at all.

That being said, this summer in San Antonio has been hot as hell. It's 100+ every time I go outside lately.

Yep, I found the record for Palm Springs is 123, both in 1979 and 1993. The nice thing about California is that it cools off at night. In 1999 here in Dallas during the heat wave, the average temperature for one of those months was 103, including day and night.

We're totally derailing this thread, though. Everybody back to yelling partisan rhetoric and not listening to each other....

Now.

[hope4dopes]

Yes, micca, I am an *idealounge*.

Obsessed much? :lol

I dare you to find a quote supporting the bolded, or for that matter, waving off Cali's fiscal irresponsibility.

You won't be able to find one, and everyone knows why.



It's because you're a liar, micca.



Here you go princess http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

[Winehole23]

Non-responsive, micca. You misrepresented me. The impersonation wasn't even close. It's like you just threw sh!te on the wall and called it a portrait.

[hope4dopes]

Non-responsive, micca. You misrepresented me. The impersonation wasn't even close. It's like you just threw sh!te on the wall and called it a portrait.

Damn is that fruedian or what.

[Winehole23]

You tell me, profe.

[Purple & Gold]

CA cuts/limits taxes like conservatives love, ends up in a ditch with a bankrupt state and a severely degraded CA university system (once the envy of the world and basis for CA's incredible wealth and innovation), and conservatives still aren't happy.

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner. Even Reagan wasn't stupid enough to not raise taxes. Arnold is an idiot for going to cuts and not raising taxes just like a good ol repub. He's actually following the republican model to a tee. Funny how repubs fail to notice that.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner. Even Reagan wasn't stupid enough to not raise taxes. Arnold is an idiot for going to cuts and not raising taxes just like a good ol repub. He's actually following the republican model to a tee. Funny how repubs fail to notice that.

California didn't cut taxes, they have taxes all over the place on personal income and businesses (that are higher than the national average).

It's their oppressive regulation of businesses, high income taxes, and expansive social programs (I have read they spend about 12 billion a year on providing services for illegal aliens) that is bankrupting them, not low taxes.

[Winehole23]

It's their oppressive regulation of businesses, high income taxes, and expansive social programs that is bankrupting them, not low taxes.True, in pars.

California's stubborn, ongoing refusal to pay for the services it demands may turn out to be catatrophic. It's a damn shame for California.

[coyotes_geek]

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner. Even Reagan wasn't stupid enough to not raise taxes. Arnold is an idiot for going to cuts and not raising taxes just like a good ol repub. He's actually following the republican model to a tee. Funny how repubs fail to notice that.

Didn't California voters have a chance to go to the ballot box and decide for themselves whether or not they were undertaxed? I'm not saying what Arnold is doing is right, wrong, good or bad, but from the outside it sure looks like he's standing up for what the voters told him they wanted.

[Winehole23]

Didn't California voters have a chance to go to the ballot box and decide for themselves whether or not they were undertaxed?You'd think that something's gotta give, now that California is about to start whipping out IOU's for its creditors.

[Winehole23]

Supermajority consensus is hard.

[SonOfAGun]

I was in 110* AZ heat, but with 0 humidity it was weaksauce compared to Texas.

Texas could also use a monsoon season plzkthx.

[Jacob1983]

How much shit would Bush have gotten if he said the comments Obama made about California being the model for America's economy?

[hope4dopes]

True, in pars.

California's stubborn, ongoing refusal to pay for the services it demands may turn out to be catatrophic. It's a damn shame for California.

The people of california have repeatedly voted to refuse payments totaling 10 to 12 BILLIONS PER YEAR in services ILLEGAL ALIENS demand, not californians demand but illegal aliens and the poverty pimps that pander to them, and the democrats who run the state have repeatedly violated the peoples rights to self determination and upsured these propisitions through activist judges like sotomayer.Now it's a damn shame for the entire nation.Stick to suburban texas whinehole you know jack shit about california.

[sook]

I don't care about what he says. Hes black , and we enslaved his kind for hundreds of years, he can do whatevvvaaa he wants

[Winehole23]

but illegal aliens and the poverty pimps that pander to them, and the democrats who run the state have repeatedly violated the peoples rights to self determination and upsured these propisitions through activist judges like sotomayer.Now it's a damn shame for the entire nation.Stick to suburban texas whinehole you know jack shit about california.*Lighten up, Francis.*


QBvg3PkI-PU&NR

[Winehole23]

The controller, John Chiang, issued 28,742 warrants totaling $53.3 million. If state lawmakers fail to reach a budget agreement by the end of August, the amount would grow to $4.8 billion (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/03/us/03calif.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper).

[Winehole23]

It was only the second time the state had adopted the emergency payment method since the Great Depression (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/g/great_depression_1930s/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier). The National Conference of State Legislatures (http://www.ncsl.org/) had no record of any other state’s ever using them.

[Winehole23]

It was unclear whether the i.o.u.’s, known as warrants, would be accepted by all of the banks in California, which were caught off guard by the move and seemed hesitant to entrust the state to repay the them — at an interest rate of 3.75 percent — in October, as promised.

[coyotes_geek]

Getting ugly out there. If too many IOU's get issued the bond ratings agencies are going to start getting nervous and the last thing California needs is to have it's debt rating reduced even further.