Battle Blog: Manu Ginobili Will Be An All-star Next Year

[timvp]

Ginobili_is_God: Ever since I saw Manu Ginobili put on a San Antonio Spurs jersey his rookie year, I knew he would be an All-Star in the near future. I told my friends here in Sacramento, and they said, "Manu who!?". They had never even heard of the guy; neither had anyone except those people living in Italy, Argentina or San Antonio. Ginobili quickly became recognized as an excellent player, one that gives his all every single second he is on the court and the type of player who has the knack for always coming up with the key rebound during the final minutes of a huge game. Despite injuries during his rookie campaign, Ginobili showed many glimpses of the star player he would eventually become. Keeping this is mind, I pose the question, "Will Manu Ginobili be recognized as an All-Star next year?"

I firmly believe that Ginobili will notch his second straight All-Star appearance. There are many reasons why I believe this. First of all, the Argentinean sensation has increased his statistics every single year. Despite not starting most of his first two seasons in the NBA, Ginobili became one of the most efficient players in the league. He has already won an NBA Championship and a gold medal in the Olympics after only three years of playing for the Spurs. I feel that the sky is the limit for this guy and as long as he is healthy, he will become an NBA second or third team member for the rest of his career. He was recognized as an All-Star this year and I feel that he will keep this up for years to come.



MannyIsGod: I’m a firm believer that Ginobili is not only the second best player on the Spurs, but also the most exciting. He seems to be the exact kind of player you would want to participate in the NBA’s annual extravaganza of flair, the All Star Game.

You might then find it interesting to note that I believe Ginobili has been to his one and only All-Star Weekend as a participant in the All-Star Game.

It has nothing to do with excitement. Ginobili has a knack for the dramatic, outstanding play. It’s not for a lack of desire, as Ginobili is arguably the Spur most driven to win. It’s not for a lack of talent, because as stated above, he has plenty of that.

No, the two main obstacles Ginobili will have to overcome are as follows:

1. A large number of superior guards in the West.
2. An inability to play extended minutes.

A look across the rosters of the Western Conference will bring up names such as Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen, Mike Bibby, Steve Nash, Michael Finely and Jason Richardson. Even on his own team, Ginobili faces competition for a slot from Tony Parker.

As this season wears on, it becomes more apparent that Ginobili’s minutes must be carefully monitored in order to maintain his freshness. While this strategy will bode well for the Spurs in the win column, it will not give Ginobili the playing time needed to attain All-Star numbers.


Ginobili_is_God: You cannot honestly say that Ginobili will only play in one All-Star game the rest of his career. He made the team after three years (one which he was injured, the second came off the bench half the year). He is only going to get better. Ginobili is fearless and draws admiration from players all around the league, including even the Big Aristotle. That type of player is what the fans want to see. His country loves him and so do people all around the nation. The votes will always be there for the guy and the coaches love him.

His stats weren’t even that great this year yet he still got in. The All-Star game is about fast pace basketball players who make the fans get their money's worth. He is one of the top five most fun to watch players in the entire league.

Carmelo Anthony, Corey Maggette, Elton Brand, Chris Webber, Peja Stojakovic, Bibby and many other players from the West had equal if not better numbers than Ginobili, yet the Argentinean was the one chosen to play in the Mile High City.

Frankly, I'd rather have a player give his all for 30 minutes than a player like Vince Carter who plays a lot but is lazy on the defensive side. Clearly Ginobili will make the All-Star team next year and for years to come.



MannyIsGod: Ginobili plays with the reckless abandon that inspires teammates and makes him a local fan favorite. He has even gained celebrity fans such as Charles Barkley through this manner. But the fact remains is that this same style that endears him to many people will also be the main factor in his minute limitations through out his career.

One look at Ginobili late in a game will tell you all you need to know. He is tired, exhausted and takes days to recover from playing in excess of 35 minutes. Earlier this week, he could not even finish a practice after a 37 minute game against Houston.

In a conference filled with athletically gifted guards and small forwards expecting to make the All-Star game consistently while playing under 35 minutes is a grasp for straws. One 48 point game does not a consistent All-Star make.



----------------------
In a very close contest, the judges gave the win to MannyIsGod. Thanks to both bloggers and the judges.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I can see where you lost GiG. By the way, who are the judges?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Same here, I agree with Frenchise

[timvp]

G_is_G, a lot of the judges said while they agree with you, that Manny made his point better. This was the closest call in Battle Blog history, with it being decided by one vote ... so don't feel too bad.

You did a very good job.

Thanks.

[danyel]

GIG, I dont think you should get upset about the result, you did a good job, judges thought Manny did slightly better, not a big deal.

Yet I found a flaw in Manny's argument. All the things he points out as obstacles for Manu to get to an allstar game were valid this year as well, none of them has changed. Manu didnt play less minutes than last season and there arent going to be less talented guards in the west next year, so how did he got picked this year and he isnt going to get picked next year?

You could argue that there was someone injured this year, or someone who might get better next season, but something should change...

[timvp]

A judge's job is to pick who had the better argument. Not who they agree most with.

[timvp]

You cannot be both. It's either/or.

[Kori Ellis]

can people who make blogs also be judges? or if u are a judge, are u are not allowed to post blogs? same thing

You cannot be both.

[Brodels]

i found the same flaw as well with Manny's arguement.Also, do u guys agree with this quote by Manny"You might then find it interesting to note that I believe Ginobili has been to his one and only All-Star Weekend as a participant in the All-Star Game." There is no way Manu will not be an All-Star at least one more time in his career. He will have at least 3 more appearances. I am also dissapointed that some so-called spurs fans in this forum dont even back up the team's second best player.

What are you talking about? Backing a player and believing that he won't be an all-star in the future are two different things.

By that logic, I'm not backing Nazr Mohammad because I don't think he's going to be league MVP next season. Manny wasn't saying that Manu shouldn't be named to the all star team, just that Manu probably wouldn't be. Those are two different things and your inability to separate them has led to an unfair indictment of Manny.

I, like many others, agree with you but feel that Manny made the better argument. Your argument is about how you feel and selected accomplishments that have little to do with Manu becoming an all star. Manu's gold medal really doesn't have a whole lot to do with the argument. Manny presented some interesting, easily identifiable arguments. What you think about Vince Carter really doesn't prove anything.

Instead of bitching about it, why don't you write another one and try again?

[Phenomanul]

What are you talking about? Backing a player and believing that he won't be an all-star in the future are two different things.

By that logic, I'm not backing Nazr Mohammad because I don't think he's going to be league MVP next season. Manny wasn't saying that Manu shouldn't be named to the all star team, just that Manu probably wouldn't be. Those are two different things and your inability to separate them has led to an unfair indictment of Manny.

I, like many others, agree with you but feel that Manny made the better argument. Your argument is about how you feel and selected accomplishments that have little to do with Manu becoming an all star. Manu's gold medal really doesn't have a whole lot to do with the argument. Manny presented some interesting, easily identifiable arguments. What you think about Vince Carter really doesn't prove anything.

Instead of bitching about it, why don't you write another one and try again?

That was a cold exclamation mark Brodels..... IMHO the blog should have been a tie.... to be decided by an extra argument.... but I wouldn't want to change the rules....

[Kori Ellis]

IMHO the blog should have been a tie....

Why should it be a tie, when votes decided a winner?

[smeagol]

Yet I found a flaw in Manny's argument. All the things he points out as obstacles for Manu to get to an allstar game were valid this year as well, none of them has changed. Manu didnt play less minutes than last season and there arent going to be less talented guards in the west next year, so how did he got picked this year and he isnt going to get picked next year?

You could argue that there was someone injured this year, or someone who might get better next season, but something should change...
Totally agree with Danyel. The flaw was there, funny the ones who voted for B did not see it.

[Phenomanul]

Why should it be a tie, when votes decided a winner?


That's why I'm saying I wouldn't want to change the rules.... Having an odd number of judges is a perfect precept --- 'ala supreme court....

I guess what I was trying to say was that the argument was so good that it deserved a tie.... but since a tie is not possible... it's unfortunate someone had to lose.

Anyways, I'm kind of undecided myself... Do I think Ginobili is perenial All-Star material? It's a no-brainer. He is the sort of player any and every coach would want on their squads (underline every). Do I think he will be voted in to other All-Star games? That's a different tune because he has to beat out very tough competition from other stat-filled studs. Only time will tell.

[Uncle Donnie]

I'm surprised you didn't bring up that Ginobili will have the summer off, making it less likely that his minutes will have to be monitored as carefully. So it's pretty much a given his stats will be even better next year. If anything, he has a better shot of making it next season than he had this season.

On the other hand, I really believe Parker will be an all-star next year as well. Tim Duncan will of course be voted in, and I doubt the coaches vote in two additional Spurs. One of TP or Manu may need to be voted in by the fans for them both to make it.

[toosmallshoes]

Ginobili made an obvious prediction, and Manny made clear points detracting from his position. Manny won because he was concise where ginobili rambled. just because you're right, doesn't mean you presented the best argument. And who's to say you were right anyway?... That was between you and the judges.
Make your next blog sound less like a rant and you'll have a much better chance of winning.

[Warlord23]

Well,

I'm sure it must have been close. But there are a few more points GIG could have pointed out that would have sealed it in his favour.

1. The teams with great records are, on an average, better represented at the ASG. If the Spurs were to have the best record in the L at the time of the ASG, then odds are that at least two Spurs would make it. And Manu has a better chance than Parker right now.

2. The ASG reserves are decided by the coaches. Now, idiot fans of Vince Carter may not acknowledge the intangibles that Manu brings to the court, but opposing teams know why Manu is important to the Spurs no matter how many minutes he plays and how many points he scores. He's as fierce a competitor as they come, and head coaches know this: they won't blindly vote for Carmelo Anthony or Jason Richardson. Coaches respect competitiveness and clutchness more than highlight-reel plays and stats put up by ballhogging; they also respect the players on a team that is above them on the standings. Ergo, Manu would make it over several of the so-called "large number of superior guards in the West".

[Brodels]

Ginobili made an obvious prediction, and Manny made clear points detracting from his position. Manny won because he was concise where ginobili rambled. just because you're right, doesn't mean you presented the best argument. And who's to say you were right anyway?... That was between you and the judges.
Make your next blog sound less like a rant and you'll have a much better chance of winning.

That's the thing. I think most everyone in here would agree with g is g...but most seem to agree that Manny made the better argument. It's not about what you believe. It's about who made the better argument.

[smeagol]

That's the thing. I think most everyone in here would agree with g is g...but most seem to agree that Manny made the better argument. It's not about what you believe. It's about who made the better argument.
Manny's conclusion stands on two premises. He claims that, for Manu to attend another ASG, he has to overcome two obstacles:

1. A large number of superior guards in the West.
2. An inability to play extended minutes.

What GiG is saying (and I agree with him) is that Manu has overcome these obstacles this year. Why wouldn't he do it again next year?

1. The superior guards in the West, and he names a few (Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen, Mike Bibby, Steve Nash, Michael Finely and Jason Richardson) were playing this year and,

2. He was voted by the coaches this year when he has averaged less than 30 mpg.

Therefore, as it can be seen, Manny's arguments are not strong at all.

[genghisrex]

GiG, I'm not a judge, but to win that argument I think you needed to either make the case that Manu will become more of a fan favorite (get voted in) or do a better job of explaining why coaches will continue to select him. I don't think you did either.

The fan votes will not "always be there" as you suggest. They weren't there this year so I'm not sure what you're basing your assumptions on. As far as coaches selecting him, sure, they might, but I hardly think it's a given (and if you disagree, you need to back it up). Brodels is also correct in saying that there's too much superfluous information. Manu's gold medal really doesn't have anything to do with the ASG voting, or if it did this year, it shouldn't next (i.e. what have you done for me lately?). Your claim that he will be on the second or third All-NBA teams for the rest of his career also seems highly questionable to me (and still off topic).

I have to agree with the majority vote on this one. Anyway, just suck it up and move on to the next one.

[CHAMPS AGAIN]

Season is not even over and the topic is next year all star player. Why not start a topic or a poll on will the SPURS trade for Malik,SJACKSON or call MALONE to come play for the SPURS next year.

[Clandestino]

I don't see how Manny could've won because his arguments against Manu making another allstar appearance were the same reasons people thought he wouldn't do it this year. they were all proven incorrect. coaches see lots of game footage and they see how manu plays. if the fans don't vote him in the coaches will again.

[MannyIsGod]

Somehow, I knew to expect Argentinian disagreement....

Anyhow, I'm of the opinion that Manu made this years all star team when other people, including Tony Parker, were more deserving. That takes nothing away from Manu, it simply states my opinion on the situation.

I think he made it in large part thanks to his game against Pheonix, and I don't think you can always count on that.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Somehow, I knew to expect Argentinian disagreement....

Anyhow, I'm of the opinion that Manu made this years all star team when other people, including Tony Parker, were more deserving. That takes nothing away from Manu, it simply states my opinion on the situation.

I think he made it in large part thanks to his game against Pheonix, and I don't think you can always count on that.



And Manny WON???


I think I may have to partake in this "battle blogs" thing when I have a little more time. I've never shot fish in a barrel before.

[MannyIsGod]

And Manny WON???


I think I may have to partake in this "battle blogs" thing when I have a little more time. I've never shot fish in a barrel before.

2 words.

Bring it.

I don't see why it's such a reach to you for me to say that the pheonix win was what seperated Manu from other potential all star candidates.

You know, my argument might hold a bit less water had Manu been a slam dunk for this years AS game. But he wasn't, was he? There were plenty of people who were at the very least just as worth as Manu as being on the AS team. Why is it so hard to fathom that a national tv performance against the other top team in the west was what put Manu ahead of those other players?

[MannyIsGod]

thank you Smeagol for saying exactly what was going on in my mind when i wrote the blog...Manny's two arguments suck...he will only get better, so it should be even easier for him to make the ASG next year...does anyone else feel this way?

Hey, maybe my arguments do suck. We should let the battle blog judges decide. Oh wait.


:blah :blah :blah

[Shelly]

Dude, Manny is the king of arguments. Just visit the political forum...:lol

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

I saw it before it was edited. That's pretty funny.

[SequSpur]

Manu Ginobili Will Be An All-star Next Year

Hell No! The real allstars in Duncan and Parker will be there!

[smeagol]

Dude, Manny is the king of arguments. Just visit the political forum...:lol
Agreed, he got my vote for Political Poster of the Year, although I don't agree with most of his opinions.

But in this blog I thought he lost. His two premises just don't follow his conclusion.

Now he is saying something about the PHO game on national TV. That is a different story . . .

[Rick Von Braun]

Hey, maybe my arguments do suck. We should let the battle blog judges decide. Oh wait.


:blah :blah :blah
Hey, maybe Manu is not an All-Star. We should let the NBA coaches decide. Oh wait.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smiblabber.gif http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smiblabber.gif http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smiblabber.gif

[smeagol]

Hell No! The real allstars in Duncan and Parker will be there!
All of a sudden you are ridding Parkers nuts like nobodies business.

You are something else, little Napoleon.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

2 words.

Bring it.

I don't see why it's such a reach to you for me to say that the pheonix win was what seperated Manu from other potential all star candidates.

You know, my argument might hold a bit less water had Manu been a slam dunk for this years AS game. But he wasn't, was he? There were plenty of people who were at the very least just as worth as Manu as being on the AS team. Why is it so hard to fathom that a national tv performance against the other top team in the west was what put Manu ahead of those other players?


That would be fun, actually. I may give it a shot here in a few weeks when my schedule gets a little easier. Thanks for the invite.

As for Manu, he was on his way to being an All-Star way before the Phoenix game. He's one Spur that gets a lot of positive props in the media. Charles Barkley didn't start screaming "Giiinnnoobbbiiilllliii!!!" suddenly after the Phoenix game. When you're the most flamboyant player on the best team in the league people are going to notice you, and vote for you if they perceive that you're a key ingredient to that team's success.

I think Manu is one of those guys that actually gets some respect for the little things he does to make a team better beyond the scoring. His overall passion for the game each and every night combined with his unorthodox style is what gets him noticed, not a one-night scoring burst in Phoenix.

[timvp]

For the record, I agree with the judges' decision. It was a close call, but the side that was written better and backed up the argument better won.

Hopefully this controversy gets some of the Manu Defenders to start Battle Blogging. Should be interesting.

:smokin

[MannyIsGod]

Hey, maybe Manu is not an All-Star. We should let the NBA coaches decide. Oh wait.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smiblabber.gif http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smiblabber.gif http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smiblabber.gif

I didn't realize they voted for next years team already.

[MannyIsGod]

That would be fun, actually. I may give it a shot here in a few weeks when my schedule gets a little easier. Thanks for the invite.

As for Manu, he was on his way to being an All-Star way before the Phoenix game. He's one Spur that gets a lot of positive props in the media. Charles Barkley didn't start screaming "Giiinnnoobbbiiilllliii!!!" suddenly after the Phoenix game. When you're the most flamboyant player on the best team in the league people are going to notice you, and vote for you if they perceive that you're a key ingredient to that team's success.

I think Manu is one of those guys that actually gets some respect for the little things he does to make a team better beyond the scoring. His overall passion for the game each and every night combined with his unorthodox style is what gets him noticed, not a one-night scoring burst in Phoenix.

I agree with much of that, with the exception that I don't think that respect is going to earn Manu a bid to an All Star game in the next few years when his minutes start coming down.

Manu's stats also benefited from TP coming in at the begining of the season and not asserting himself at all. The moment Parker began to do that, Manu's PPG came down pretty quickly.

I look forward to seeing you in the Blog Forum.

[jcrod]

I totally agree with Manny.

I made this statement when Manu was selected to the allstar game this yr.

Thread (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=154579#post154579)

Ok, I don't like one more than the other like most people do. I think they're both very important players for the team and like both their games. But wonder why so many Spurs fan really want Manu in and not TP (both).Although I do believe Manu should be in there, I just don't see how you can justify putting him in front of TP. You're putting the fourth best SG in before the second best PG in the WC. I just don't understand.

I would've hope the Spurs front office and media alike would be pumping TP as well as Manu. Instead you see PHX getting three players instead of SA, which I think are more deserving. Nash is a no brainer, but both Marion and Amare in I think is wrong.

If we were to lose TD, like PHX lost Nash, we wouldn't of lost 5+ games like PHX. TP and Manu would've carried the team, like Marion and Amare couldn't. Proven last yr.

I think Manu will get in and I'll also think this might be his only yr. We'll see TP in there for the next 10yrs. So I guess it doesn't matter.

Just my 2 cents.




Look at the big picture, quit being manu/spurs homers. The dude is 27, he is never going to be better than Kobe or TMAC and Ray (28) will be right there in the mix. If TP doesn't make it this yr at 22 is progressively getting better and will be in there for yrs to come. I don't see a PG who will challenge him in the next coming yrs. Do you really think we'll have 3 all stars every yr. That would be a dream come true, but think realisticly.

[MannyIsGod]

It's not about undervaluing his contribution, it's about understanding what the NBA loves to market and what gets you on an All Star team.

AS games mean dick. Championships do not. That is why I'd rather have Manu over a perrinial all star.

[MannyIsGod]

Bump, bitches.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

What the hells a battle blog?

[MannyIsGod]

look at the dates. Is old school.

[exstatic]

Why the fuck did you drag up this rotting corpse, Manny?

[ShoogarBear]

Let me get rid of the fluff for you.


Manny is right.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Manny i was joking--ive been wanting us to restart the battle blog thing for the longest.

[1Parker1]

:lol Ultimate battle blog: Who's the better NBA player? Parker vs. Manu :smokin

[MannyIsGod]

Why the fuck did you drag up this rotting corpse, Manny?:lol

As Mouse would say, I wanted to Toot My Van Horn.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol Ultimate battle blog: Who's the better NBA player? Parker vs. Manu :smokinHoly shit. You're right.

[exstatic]

:lol Manny just didn't want to see this bitch fall of the end of the forum.

[phyzik]

I think M-is-G should lose.... he is always flipping me the bird in his avatar...WITH BOTH HANDS!!!.... screw him.


:drunk :drunk

[1Parker1]

Holy shit. You're right.

Perhaps we'll do that battle when we have time one day Manny...:smokin


I hope you're not afraid to lose to a girl or anything... :dramaquee

[Kamnik]

Holy shit. You're right.

now you need just an argentinian and a frenchman to make it saucy :lol

[ALVAREZ6]

Props to Manny, good call.


:lol @ Smeagol calling Manny's argument weak, it was right on the money.

[smeagol]

Props to Manny, good call.


:lol @ Smeagol calling Manny's argument weak, it was right on the money.

Re-read Manny's arguments. What he claims are the reasons for Manu not making the ASG ever again were valid reasons in 2004, the year he made it. That's why I don't believe they are solid arguments. But hey, that's just me. Other people saw him as the blogger winner and I respect their opinions.


I also give Manny props for his call (of Manu not making the AS, not of the reasons why he hasn't and will not in the future), although if Manu continues to play as he did since he came back from his injury, he might have a shot.

Alvarez: Allow me to let you in a little secret. The real reason why Manu did not make the ASG last year is . . .




. . . he played nowhere near at an AS level. Nothing to do with his minutes and very little to do with guys like Mike Bibby, JR and Finley.

[ALVAREZ6]

Well, he did mention Manu's freshness being a big role, and is tied in with injuries, along with all the big names in the west.

[xamila rey]

:tu nice sig alvarez6

[ShoogarBear]

Anything beats his old one! :jackYou were doing that to his old one?

[MannyIsGod]

Re-read Manny's arguments. What he claims are the reasons for Manu not making the ASG ever again were valid reasons in 2004, the year he made it. That's why I don't believe they are solid arguments. But hey, that's just me. Other people saw him as the blogger winner and I respect their opinions.


I also give Manny props for his call (of Manu not making the AS, not of the reasons why he hasn't and will not in the future), although if Manu continues to play as he did since he came back from his injury, he might have a shot.

Alvarez: Allow me to let you in a little secret. The real reason why Manu did not make the ASG last year is . . .




. . . he played nowhere near at an AS level. Nothing to do with his minutes and very little to do with guys like Mike Bibby, JR and Finley.Um, as I said, Manu's not durable enough to put in enough minutes to GET All Star stats. He plays at an All Star level when he's in the game, but he's not in the game long enough to get the same stats as guys who play 10 more MPG than him. His MPG average has come DOWN 2 minutes pergame in 2 years.

Sure, Finley may not make an ASG, but it remains very true that the West is incredibly deep at the guard position. Bibby, Baron Davis, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Carmelo Anthony, Jason Terry, Ray Allen, Steve Nash, and Chris Paul all play in the West. Don't focus on Finley and Jason Richardson when you the point was that the West was deep at that position, not that Finley was going to keep Manu off of every ASG for the rest of time.

So lets see about my reasons that don't make sense again:

Manu doesn't play enough minutes: Check! They continue to drop as do his stats.

Manu faces tough compeition at the guard position: Check! I listed just some of the players above, not to mention he's not even the most ASG worth guard on his own team.

So, explain to me why they don't make sense Smeagol?

[ducks]

ducks is waiting to ....................
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[smeagol]

Um, as I said, Manu's not durable enough to put in enough minutes to GET All Star stats. He plays at an All Star level when he's in the game, but he's not in the game long enough to get the same stats as guys who play 10 more MPG than him. His MPG average has come DOWN 2 minutes pergame in 2 years.

Sure, Finley may not make an ASG, but it remains very true that the West is incredibly deep at the guard position. Bibby, Baron Davis, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Carmelo Anthony, Jason Terry, Ray Allen, Steve Nash, and Chris Paul all play in the West. Don't focus on Finley and Jason Richardson when you the point was that the West was deep at that position, not that Finley was going to keep Manu off of every ASG for the rest of time.

So lets see about my reasons that don't make sense again:

Manu doesn't play enough minutes: Check! They continue to drop as do his stats.

Manu faces tough compeition at the guard position: Check! I listed just some of the players above, not to mention he's not even the most ASG worth guard on his own team.

So, explain to me why they don't make sense Smeagol?
They don't make sense because the year Manu went to the ASG, he was playing 30 mpg (according to you, not enough to be an AS) and because all those same guards, except Paul, were playing for the West.

By the way, I'd take Manu over many of the guards you mention above.

If Manu plays at 75% the level he did in the 2005 playoffs, I guaranty he makes the ASG regardless of how many minutes he plays, regardless of the competition.

[smeagol]

ducks is waiting to ....................

So what is your take in all this . . .?

[cheguevara]

WGAF about the gay-ass allstar game. It's all about the rings!!!!!!!!! and Manu knows this.

[smeagol]

I'll break it up a little.


Um, as I said, Manu's not durable enough to put in enough minutes to GET All Star stats.

How did he do it in 04/05? This year's stats mirror the stats he produced when he went to the ASG.


He plays at an All Star level when he's in the game, but he's not in the game long enough to get the same stats as guys who play 10 more MPG than him. His MPG average has come DOWN 2 minutes pergame in 2 years.

His "reduced" minutes were enough to earn him a spot in the ASG once, why will they not be enough to earn him a second spot in the future?


Sure, Finley may not make an ASG, but it remains very true that the West is incredibly deep at the guard position. Bibby, Baron Davis, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Carmelo Anthony, Jason Terry, Ray Allen, Steve Nash, and Chris Paul all play in the West. Don't focus on Finley and Jason Richardson when you the point was that the West was deep at that position, not that Finley was going to keep Manu off of every ASG for the rest of time.

Even with Manu playing "not enough" minutes, he is ahead of many of the players you name above, in the AS balloting.



Manu doesn't play enough minutes: Check! They continue to drop as do his stats.

Minutes are dropping, his stats are not. Go check them.


Manu faces tough compeition at the guard position: Check! I listed just some of the players above, not to mention he's not even the most ASG worth guard on his own team.

He does, and this point is more valid than the first one, even though the tough competition did not start last year. It was there the year Manu made the ASG.

As I said in a prior post: Making the AS depends on how Manu is playing, not how many minutes he is playing. And it depends very little on the competition.

By the way, Bibby, Davis and Terry are not more worthy of making the ASG than Manu, even with Manu playing at 50-60% of his potential.

[MannyIsGod]

You're insane if you don't think that those players aren't more worth of an All Star birth. They all have better stats than Manu, they are all playing more minutes than Manu, and they're all very important to their teams. On exactly what grounds is Manu more deserving of an All Star team over those other players? Manu isn't playing at 50% of his potential sir, he's playing at all of his potential. It doesn't make sense. Do you think Manu is saving himself? Anyone who has ever seen Manu play a minute knows that he only plays at one speed, and it certainly doesn't leave anything in reserve. So your arguement that he's not playing to all of his potential is ridiculous. Manu is playing as well as he's capable of playing, which unfortunetly is not (and may never well be again) at the same level he played at in 04.

Manu made the ASG in 04 in large part because of his 48 point explosion against the Suns on national TV. He became a media darling. Also, in the eyes of the national media Tony Parker wasn't as big a facor in this team as he is today. After the great year Tony had last year, Manu doesn't get as much credit for this teams success as he did in 04.

I can play your game too Smeagol. If Manu's stats last year were the same as in 04, then why didn't he make the All Star team? 04 was a fluke. It was a once in a career situation. Manu's not making the ASG in front of Parker this year, so the only way he makes it is if the Spurs carry 3 players in that game. While thats not impossible, its sure as hell not likely considering the level of guards in the West. (As I've been saying for what, 2 years now?)

[MannyIsGod]

I don't see how you can justify putting Manu on the AST this year.

Kobe
Kevin Martin
Tony Parker
Baron Davis
Deron Williams
Ray Allen
Nash
Chris Paul
Bibby

Who's getting left off? Tony's not even a lock to make the team right now. I know I don't put Manu on the team above any of those players and thats assuming Melo goes in as a forward.

[ShoogarBear]

One minor point: Bibby truly sucks this year.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't see how you can justify putting Manu on the AST this year.

Kobe
Kevin Martin
Tony Parker
Baron Davis
Deron Williams
Ray Allen
Nash
Chris Paul
Bibby

Who's getting left off? Tony's not even a lock to make the team right now. I know I don't put Manu on the team above any of those players and thats assuming Melo goes in as a forward.

Worse than that, TMac is listed as a guard.

So Kobe and TMac will get voted in by fans as the guards.

Then I think Chris Paul and Steve Nash get in for sure. Then you have a lot of other reasonable options.

Manu (and Tony) have very slim chances.

[xamila rey]

sth out of topic,
kori do u think Nocioni have any chances this year?
maybe if he keeps developing .....next year?

[MannyIsGod]

Nocioni an All-Star? Absolutely not. I love the guy but there is no way you can put him over guys like Paul Pierce and Antawn Jamison who probably wont even make it. Nocioni is a stud and plays well when the Bulls need him most. He was fabulous against the Heat last year in the playoffs. He is definitely All-Star worthy but he will not be selected anytime soon. Look for Tayshaun Prince and Josh Howard to make it before Andres.Josh Howard plays in the West sir.

[smeagol]

One minor point: Bibby truly sucks this year.
Maybe if you tell it to him he'll listen . . . :lol

When I said he is playing at 50 or 60 per cent of his potential I meant he is not playing as well as he can, not because he is saving heimself, simply because he is not clicking at 100%.


Manu is playing as well as he's capable of playing, which unfortunetly is not (and may never well be again) at the same level he played at in 04.

Look at this year's stats and 04/05's stats. They are almost identical.


If Manu's stats last year were the same as in 04, then why didn't he make the All Star team?

Fortunately, the ASG is not 100% about stats. And as you, and most of the Spurs fans know, Manu's game is not about stats. He has similar stats last year as he did in 04/05 but his game that season has completely different than what it was in 05/06.

If he keeps playing the way he has after his injury, I believe he has a shot (a slim one, but a shot nonetheless).

[smeagol]

Worse than that, TMac is listed as a guard.

TMac is already injured. Who knows if he will be able to make it . . .

[MannyIsGod]

Maybe if you tell it to him he'll listen . . . :lol

When I said he is playing at 50 or 60 per cent of his potential I meant he is not playing as well as he can, not because he is saving heimself, simply because he is not clicking at 100%.



Look at this year's stats and 04/05's stats. They are almost identical.



Fortunately, the ASG is not 100% about stats. And as you, and most of the Spurs fans know, Manu's game is not about stats. He has similar stats last year as he did in 04/05 but his game that season has completely different than what it was in 05/06.

If he keeps playing the way he has after his injury, I believe he has a shot (a slim one, but a shot nonetheless).Ok, so since you avoided the 2 main questions I posed to you, I'll ask them again.

Why didn't Manu make the ASG last year?

Who are you going to leave off of that list in order to give Manu a spot?

[MannyIsGod]

Really? Obviously I knew that Manny. I am just saying don't look for a guy like Andres to make it before a guy like Josh Howard does.Ok? Considering that both could make it at the same time I don't understand what relevence Josh Howard has to Andres.

[smeagol]

Why didn't Manu make the ASG last year?

I already answered this questions: Because he was not playing as well as he did the previous season.


Who are you going to leave off of that list in order to give Manu a spot?

None becuse he is not playing at the level he should to deserve an AS slot.

Nevertheless, he is certainly capable of playing better and leaving out Bibby and Davis.

[ShoogarBear]

What's funny is the Spurs have a good shot at still having the best record at the ASB and maybe having no starters. Tim winning the vote is always iffy and usually not decided until the end. TP and Manu won't have the stats compared to other players, and if one gets in (Parker much more likely) it will be because of the Spurs' record and not because of superior numbers.

Not that that's a bad thing. The Spurs strength (having three guys as opposed to two, and a relatively deep bench) works against them for All-Star selection purposes

I just don't see Manu under any circumstances, no matter how well he plays, generating the numbers to be in the top 4-5 of Manny's list.

[Kori Ellis]

..

Nevertheless, he is certainly capable of playing better and leaving out Bibby and Davis.

And Tony?

[smeagol]

And Tony?
Very unlikely . . . but not impossible.

[xamila rey]

Really? Obviously I knew that Manny. I am just saying don't look for a guy like Andres to make it before a guy like Josh Howard does.

thanks guys for ur opinions

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I would love for Manu to make it to the ASG, but right now I don't see it happening any time soon. Still, IMO there are much more important things to worry about. The NBA title is what's important, the personal accolades will follow on their own.

[MannyIsGod]

Very unlikely . . . but not impossible.OK, so now you've basicaly agreed with my weak argument. Thanks.

[ALVAREZ6]

Allen Iverson is now in the western conference.