The Secret Government

[Marcus Bryant]

_sstDwKTCpM

[Winehole23]

GWOT= post 9/11 retrofitting of the national security state.

Americans were shocked by what the Church Commission uncovered in the 1970's.
Today, it'd provoke shrugs. National security is our security blanket.

What really stings is that we willingly sacrificed our freedom and our republic for the illusion of security it provides.

At bottom, we deserve the corrupt bastards who rule us now.

[Ignignokt]

GWOT= post 9/11 retrofitting of the national security state.

Americans were shocked by what the Church Commission uncovered in the 1970's.
Today, it'd provoke shrugs. National security is our security blanket.

What really stings is that we willingly sacrificed our freedom and our republic for the illusion of security it provides.

At bottom, we deserve the corrupt bastards who rule us now.

Venona Project is one of the strongest reasons of why we had to play with fire..

[Marcus Bryant]

Agreed. Although I am not a fan of Moyers, he does lay out well the true kind of conspiratorial reality present in American life, as opposed to the fanciful Illuminati-New World Order nonsense. The warfare-welfare state is here to stay. It has survived the end of the Cold War and the obvious bankruptcy of 'big government' social programs. Clinton was pulling our leg while an intern was pulling his little leg about its era being over. GWB had us fooled with the notion that the US military would no longer be the global constabulary. And he had no problem with the state leaving none of its "children" behind, so long as they weren't some of those dirty Moslems.

You're right. Nobody cares. It's enough for Uncle Sam to claim it's to defeat the terrerists, leave no kid behind, or to save the planet from the great carbon bogeyman for this alleged collection of rugged individualists to give up more of their liberties.

[Winehole23]

Venona Project is one of the strongest reasons of why we had to play with fire.. Had to? Bullshit. Power seizes any pretext.

[Ignignokt]

in winehole's world the soviets had good intentions and had spies in our country solely for the purpose of mastering big band charts, coca cola, and how to cook a mean country fried steak.

This is the same crowd that claims to be content to go up in flames in order to protect the notion of the constitution as a suicide pact, yet even after our own indiscretions, they're not principled enough to leave just on the principle.

I mean if you're willing to go down in flames because any deviation of the constitution is evil, then you don't have to do such thing. GO to sweden, and you could live guilt free. Why the false pretense?

[Winehole23]

in winehole's world the soviets had good intentions and had spies in our country solely for the purpose of mastering big band charts, coca cola, and how to cook a mean country fried steak.

This is the same crowd that claims to be content to go up in flames in order to protect the notion of the constitution as a suicide pact, yet even after our own indiscretions, they're not principled enough to leave just on the principle.

I mean if you're willing to go down in flames because any deviation of the constitution is evil, then you don't have to do such thing. How droll. I don't believe any of the bolded above.

The Soviet threat was real but vastly and cynically overhyped.

I think that setting the Constitution aside for reasons of expedience is the suicide pact.

I am content not to go down in flames myself, but instead to see you and anybody else who has perverted our form of government -- or who has countenanced its perversion in silence -- go down in flames.


GO to sweden, and you could live guilt free. Why the false pretense?No false pretense. I still like it here. I still have a modest but burning hope that things could be better than they are now.

Go to Sweden yourself, jerky.

[LnGrrrR]

My feeling is that the pendulum can only swing one way so far before it swings back. I'll be surprised if the Millenial generation isn't slightly more libertarian than the Boomers. (My guess is that the Gen Y/Millenial block will be the next "big" block... 9/11, Iraq War, economy and first black President will lead to an interest in politics for many young voters, I think.)

[DarkReign]

Really great find, MB.


My feeling is that the pendulum can only swing one way so far before it swings back. I'll be surprised if the Millenial generation isn't slightly more libertarian than the Boomers. (My guess is that the Gen Y/Millenial block will be the next "big" block... 9/11, Iraq War, economy and first black President will lead to an interest in politics for many young voters, I think.)

I disagree. People, adults and youth alike, really believe we are under constant threat and that we need to preemptively strike against those who we think are against us.

I see people willingly cede their rights on a strictly opinion basis. Which I find puzzling...I might understand not standing up to a police officer if you find yourself in the presence of one and he is giving orders, but I will never understand the spineless wonder who even under hypothetical situations bends his bottom up for over-stepping authority.

Its the happiness in slavery and I believe with all my heart that a vast amount of conservatives enjoy opression, so long as everyone is as scared and complicit as they are. I also believe liberals are content that everyone has this shared responsibility to mother earth, the nation, healthcare, etc...so long as everyone is as happy to give 50% of their income as they are.

Petty, selfish thieves of liberty, IMO. Assimilate or die in their eyes. Its either an undisclosed fear of non-Americans for conservatives that drives their paranoia, or its the delusion of "everyone is basically a good person" for liberals.

In one world, everyone is a potential enemy and should be treated as such. Even citizens...especially citizens because they might actually influence other citizens.

In the other, no one is just plain lazy or useless, its always some other mitigating circumstance that we all have to pitch in to fix.

I dont know which one I find more revolting. The person who sleeps with one eye open or the sheppard who refuses to cull his herd.

[Marcus Bryant]

The thing that's most disconcerting is when people willingly give up their liberty for the greater glory of the state. Or even that some "good" can be found for doing so. Again and again, the nuts of the left and the right find new ways to stick the state into every nook and cranny of our lives. And a good number of us stand on the sidelines waiving Old Glory and shouting down those who disagree.

[Wild Cobra]

Venona Project is one of the strongest reasons of why we had to play with fire..
Explain please. Venona was a communications intercept program. Had nothing to do with the types of things portrayed.

Correct me is I'm wrong, but that is a 1987 video. That was when the long running program first started to leak to the public. It wasn't till the 90's that is was disclosed and understood past rumors.

[sam1617]

The thing that's most disconcerting is when people willingly give up their liberty for the greater glory of the state. Or even that some "good" can be found for doing so. Again and again, the nuts of the left and the right find new ways to stick the state into every nook and cranny of our lives. And a good number of us stand on the sidelines waiving Old Glory and shouting down those who disagree.

While I do agree, I am not surprised by it. Government, in any form, is a removal of personal liberty, the bigger the government, the less liberty. I am less concerned by these secret agencies than I am by the sheer growth of government in general. If we shrink the whole bureaucracy and all government, there is less room to hide the secret worlds.