McDonald: Fin expected to return

[coyotes_geek]

Calling my shot. Finley picks up his option and gets traded to Memphis along with some cash at the trade deadline. Spurs get a 2nd round draft pick, top 59 protected.

[scottspurs]

This is getting ridiculus. Everybody who is freaking out needs to take a deep breath and realize that Pop and RC are smarter than you. They built this franchise and Finley coming back is not going to tear it down. They are having one of their best offseasons in a long time and they are scaring the crap out of other teams. Let the offseason play out.

1. Finley is not bad. What would yall do if we had Luke Walton on the roster and he picked up his option. There would be no posts thats for sure because everyone would off themselves.

2. Finley is a trade asset in a season when you could get a good player for a bunch of average players. Spurs know what their doing and they probably told Finley there is a chance he could be traded. It did take him along time to pick up his option if he does so.

3. We are low on vets right now. Yes, all this youth movement is great, but you need vets like Finley to show these youngsters the way. Finley is a class act. I remember him getting on to Vujay jay after we lost to the Lakers in 08 for taking a pointless last shot. He just wanted to teach a young guy how he should play with class.

4. Support all the players we have on our team. Yes, it is a business and they could get traded at any moment, but you still need to support guys like Bonner and Finley. Some of you bash these guys while they go out on the court and give it their all. If anybody has ever played any organized sports before you should know what i mean. Sometimes you have guys that just aren't as good on your team, but you can't just throw them under the bus like Kobe. Support the players we have and if they get traded wish them the best.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Originally Posted by timvp View Post

it's hilarious that this thread is playing out like last year's thread about finley re-signing. So many spurs fans were convinced that finley would be used as a deep reserve and that pop had learned his lesson in playing him too much. What happened? Finley played more than ever.

If pop can bench a spurs legend who had been named to the all-defensive team for the last eight years or whatever it was to make room for finley, he'll find a way once again. If you could guarantee that finley would take a steve smith 2003 role, i'd be fine with him coming back. But if he's part of the rotation at all this coming season, i don't think the team wins a championship. Finley is just too horrible at defense, too soft and too much of a volume shooter who gets cold at the absolute wrong times.

+ 1

[DPG21920]

Why is everyone freaking out? Let things happen first.

[loveforthegame]

Timvp, do you think the Spurs would use their MLE if they were able to swing a deal of Bonner/Finley for Foster or Collison like some have thrown out?

[timvp]

Timvp, do you think the Spurs would use their MLE if they were able to swing a deal of Bonner/Finley for Foster or Collison like some have thrown out?A trade like that wouldn't affect the usage of the MLE since the salaries have to match. Finley declining his option saves the team $5 million.

[G-Nob]

I had two responses to this so I'll just include them both here...

F'n F

&

I'm gonna F'n throw up in my boot.

[Obstructed_View]

This is nonsense. 7 pages of hate for a guy who has done nothing but be a solid role player for us the last 3 years. If you guys really have such little faith in Popovich then thats fine, but 4 championships later I think he knows how to handle a rotation.

If Finley comes back I'm 100% sure it will be as a role player coming off the bench for spot up shooting 10-15mpg.

:lol

[Trimble87]

Why is everyone so convinced that Pop benched Bruce just so Finley could play 30 minutes a game? IMO Pop was saving Bruce for the playoffs because he knew 37 year old legs couldnt play 20mpg 82 games and be fresh for the playoffs. Finley may be old and declining, but he is still 3-4 years younger then Bruce...

Bruce and Pop had a falling out during the regular season for whatever reason, and I dont think it has anything to do with finley, manu was injured and Finley was a much better option then unproven guys like Harriston. Any of you who think Pop is stupid enough to start finley over RJ or give finley more minutes then mason are kidding yourselves.

[SenorSpur]

If Finley comes back I'm 100% sure it will be as a role player coming off the bench for spot up shooting 10-15mpg.

Hmmmm. Must be Deja Vu. Where have I heard that before?

[Bruno]

Not really. $2.5 million isn't much of a trade asset. By itself, it'd get nothing. I don't see the Spurs doing another 3-for-1 deal to further lessen the depth.


Disagree.
With Finley + Bonner + Marcus Williams, Spurs can get a player paid $8.3M.
And you don't lose depth compared to a scenario where Finley opt out.

[Marcus Bryant]

Disagree.
With Finley + Bonner + Marcus Williams, Spurs can get a player paid $8.3M.
And you don't lose depth compared to a scenario where Finely opt out.

Nocioni.

[SpursWench21]

Though I obviously don't want him to start or get big minutes, I don't get why many of you guys hate him staying. If he stays, consider him the 15th man who will get some spot minutes. He's not going to eat into Manu/RJ's playing time. He's a good guy and the Spurs/Pop/Duncan all seem to like him A LOT. So, I see no problem with him sitting at the end of the bench.

That being said, I still think he might leave.


+1 Agreed. And we could def. use his shooting in some of those spot minutes esp if one of the other jump shooters goes cold..

[loveforthegame]

I have a hard time believing Finley picked his option up knowing the Spurs might trade him. Unless it was a prearranged deal and benefitted both the Spurs and Finley. Or he just retires if he's traded to a team like Minnesota or Memphis or any other team with no chance at the playoffs at least.

Even if the Spurs communicated nothing to him, the roster overhaul and his agent having an ear to the ground should be convincing enough.

[Bruno]

And I also like how people jump directly to the worst case scenario of Finley being horrible and Pop being a stupid coach and playing him 30mpg.

This scenario is far less likely than Finley being an end of the bench player or Finley being traded.

[Obstructed_View]

Why is everyone so convinced that Pop benched Bruce just so Finley could play 30 minutes a game? IMO Pop was saving Bruce for the playoffs because he knew 37 year old legs couldnt play 20mpg 82 games and be fresh for the playoffs. Finley may be old and declining, but he is still 3-4 years younger then Bruce...

Bruce and Pop had a falling out during the regular season for whatever reason, and I dont think it has anything to do with finley, manu was injured and Finley was a much better option then unproven guys like Harriston. Any of you who think Pop is stupid enough to start finley over RJ or give finley more minutes then mason are kidding yourselves.

And just to make sure Bruce was completely ready, Pop rested him some more in game one against Dallas while Finley logged 35 minutes and was -20, despite scoring 19 points.

[ElNono]

And I also like how people jump directly to the worst case scenario of Finley being horrible and Pop being a stupid coach and playing him 30mpg.

Because we had to put up with an entire season of that?


This scenario is far less likely than Finley being an end of the bench player or Finley being traded.

I don't mind him getting traded if he picks up his option. I just don't really want him on the roster in October. We all know what his role SHOULD be, but we already knew that last season, and players like Hill, Bowen and Mason lost valuable minutes to him. I don't want Pop to be tempted to do the same thing.

[Marcus Bryant]

I have a hard time believing Finley picked his option up knowing the Spurs might trade him. Unless it was a prearranged deal and benefitted both the Spurs and Finley. Or he just retires if he's traded to a team like Minnesota or Memphis or any other team with no chance at the playoffs at least.

Even if the Spurs communicated nothing to him, the roster overhaul and his agent having an ear to the ground should be convincing enough.

If he opts out then he's giving up $2.5 mil when he would likely be looking at the vet min of $1.3 mil elsewhere.

[EricB]

And I also like how people jump directly to the worst case scenario of Finley being horrible and Pop being a stupid coach and playing him 30mpg.

This scenario is far less likely than Finley being an end of the bench player or Finley being traded.

The armchair quarterbacks are out in full force no question.

[scottspurs]

we would have about 9.4 mil in expiring contracts:
Finley: 2.5 mil
Bonner: 3.2 mil
Mason 3.7 mil
Manu too but were not trading him unless he gets hurt again and we can rent a championship with someone like Cris Bosh.

With 9.4+(if you trade some cheap Rookie contracts as well) million in trade assets we could get a good player from a team trying to unload a contract that goes beyond 2010. The rights to Tiago Splitter could aslo sweeten a possible deal

Example of possible players that fit this scenario are:

Nick Collison 6.2 mil
Tyson Chandler 11.8 mil
Marcus Camby 7.6 mil
Chris Kaman 10.4 mil
Josh Smith 10.8 mil
Boris Diaw 9.0
Gerald Wallace 9.0 mil
Luol Deng 10.3 mil
Stephen Jackson 7.6 mil
Andrew Bogut 10.0 mil
Samuel Dalembert 11.3 mil
Joel Przybilla 6.8 mil
Andres Nocioni 7.5 mil
Caron Butler 9.7 mil
David West 9.0 mil
Cory Maggette 9.0 mil
Shane Battier 6.8 mil
Andrea Bargnani 6.5 mil
John Salmons 5.4 mil
Troy Murphy 11.0 mil

[Bruno]

Because we had to put up with an entire season of that?


It's sure that Udoka is as good as Jefferson...

[Marcus Bryant]

The armchair quarterbacks are out in full force no question.

As opposed to the real GMs on here.

[EricB]

As opposed to the real GMs on here.


Theres a difference between coming up with realistic trade scenarios and some of the mindless drivel that usually comes out of the spursreport esque posters that are newer here.

[ElNono]

It's sure that Udoka is as good as Jefferson...

Now that I think about it, I can't believe we had that guy and Jacque Vaughn in our roster last season. Depressing.

[EricB]

It's sure that Udoka is as good as Jefferson...


Shush, Pop hates him too and will bench him don't you know that.

[Marcus Bryant]

Sign Wallace or McDyess to start and deal for Nocioni without giving up Mason (Bonner+Finley+1st rounder). Re-sign Bruce. That would give you a swingman rotation of:

Starters
2 Ginobili
3 Jefferson

Bench
2 Mason
2/3 Bowen
3 Nocioni

Nocioni could also play some 4 as needed. A dream, perhaps. I'm just not sure that if Bonner & Finley are moved that they would be moved for a big. Nocioni's deal isn't cheap, but it apparently declines over time and has $21 mil left over the next 3 seasons. I have no idea what Sacto intends to do with him but as they are in the middle of a rebuild, that would free up a fair amount of cap space after next season. Spurs are loading up to take their last shots at a title and the window will get smaller every season from here on. Nocioni would add some real depth to the swingman rotation.

[ElNono]

As opposed to the real GMs on here.

LOL, you beat me to it.

[EricB]

I think I'd rather trade for Collison than Nocioni. Nocioni sure has turned into a slow "in his own mind" three point chucking shooter.

[timvp]

Disagree.
With Finley + Bonner + Marcus Williams, Spurs can get a player paid $8.3M.
And you don't lose depth compared to a scenario where Finley opt out.If Finley opts out and the Spurs trade Mason and Bonner, all that means is that Bowen would have to be re-signed and Hill would have to get more minutes at the backup shooting guard. I don't see the horror in that. (And don't forget that RC has said they are looking for a young, defensive perimeter player. That's even more depth.)

Finley picking up his option costs the Spurs $5M. Trading him with one or two other players forces Holt to spend even more money in filling out the roster. Unless we've entered bizarro world and Holt has bottomless pockets, I don't think he's going to keep okaying moves that will cost him.

[EricB]

Don't villify Michael Finley for a mistake by the FO.

[ElNono]

Sign Wallace or McDyess to start and deal for Nocioni without giving up Mason (Bonner+Finley+1st rounder). Re-sign Bruce.

Starters
2 Ginobili
3 Jefferson

Bench
2 Mason
2/3 Bowen
3 Nocioni

Nocioni could also play some 4 as needed. A dream, perhaps. I'm just not sure that if Bonner & Finley are moved that they would be moved for a big...

I'm up for this, but if you think Manu is crazy about playing for the NT, Nocioni is 20x worse. He will play in one leg if necessary and the team be damned. That's just how he rolls. I believe he already confirmed his presence for next year worlds.

[ElNono]

I think I'd rather trade for Collison than Nocioni. Nocioni sure has turned into a slow "in his own mind" three point chucking shooter.


The armchair quarterbacks are out in full force no question.

:lol

[EricB]

Theoretically I think it would be ok with Nocioni because he would be just a bench player.

[EricB]

:lol

Leaving out my response to that of course. Convenient.

[ElNono]

Don't villify Michael Finley for a mistake by the FO.

I personally have no beef whatsoever with Mike. I appreciate what he has given to our team. My beef is with Pop. That said, if Mike is around I'm afraid Pop will keep on making that mistake, and considering Pop is going nowhere, the only solution I see is Finley gone.

[kbrury]

I'm up for this, but if you think Manu is crazy about playing for the NT, Nocioni is 20x worse. He will play in one leg if necessary and the team be damned. That's just how he rolls. I believe he already confirmed his presence for next year worlds.

:tu I agree, I think Nocioni would be too risky.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'm up for this, but if you think Manu is crazy about playing for the NT, Nocioni is 20x worse. He will play in one leg if necessary and the team be damned. That's just how he rolls. I believe he already confirmed his presence for next year worlds.

True. At this point I think you load up and the Spurs seem to agree thusfar. After 2012 there will be plenty of time to carry a low payroll and accumulate lottery players on cheap contracts as the team is built around TP.

[ElNono]

Leaving out my response to that of course. Convenient.

If what you just said was not drivel I don't know what it is...
How about you stick with defending Bonner and leave it at that?

[loveforthegame]

If he opts out then he's giving up $2.5 mil when he would likely be looking at the vet min of $1.3 mil elsewhere.

I don't think it's about money at all for Finley. It's more likely he's thinking he's got one more year to win a championship and retire a Spur.

But if he knew the Spurs were going to trade him to some bum team then I think he'd take the vet to play with Cleveland, Boston, Orlando, LA (though I don't think interest is there) without hesitation.

[Trimble87]

Don't villify Michael Finley for a mistake by the FO.

+1


As to trading Finley/Bonner/Etc for a big, I dont understand this. Would we then go after a wing player in FA? Or are we banking on resigning Bruce and him playing solid minutes as backup sf? Wouldnt a deal for Nocioni, or any other 3-4 be a better idea of us? Considering that we have options in FA when it comes to quality Bigs.

[Bruno]

If Finley opts out and the Spurs trade Mason and Bonner, all that means is that Bowen would have to be re-signed and Hill would have to get more minutes at the backup shooting guard. I don't see the horror in that. (And don't forget that RC has said they are looking for a young, defensive perimeter player. That's even more depth.)

Finley picking up his option costs the Spurs $5M. Trading him with one or two other players forces Holt to spend even more money in filling out the roster. Unless we've entered bizarro world and Holt has bottomless pockets, I don't think he's going to keep okaying moves that will cost him.

A Parker/Hill/Ginobili/RJ/Bowen perimeter rotation lack of a shooter.
Even if Mason is quite expensive, I rather keep him in that role.

[DPG21920]

I would rather have Marquis Daniels for cheaper than Noc.

[timvp]

How many times did Bowen opt out to save the Spurs money? How many times did he pass up money to stay with the Spurs? If Bowen were in Finley's place, he'd do what was best for the team ... and Finley's made way more money than Bowen in his career.

But even if you to ignore that, which is fine, then there are still ways to get creative to help everyone involved. Finley could opt out and then sign a two-year deal at the minimum. He would end up making more money than he is currently owed but it would cost the Spurs less because the NBA would pick up the tab for a lot of his salary. Plus a vet minimum doesn't fully count against the lux tax. So Finley would make ~$300K more and the Spurs would save ~$2M, if my math is right.

But yeah, timvp is being mean because he has the best interest of the team in mind and doesn't have compassion for Finley trying to reach the $130 million mark in career earnings.

[CGD]

I like Chapu, but loath his contract. It, together with RJ's deal, would really put a squeeze on us next summer when it comes time to make a decision on Manu. In effect, a move for Chapu could signal that the Spurs are OK with Manu being on his way out next year. I'm not sure how I feel about that...

Collison on the other had would be an interesting pick up.

[DPG21920]

Also, has Morrow recieved a QO?

[timvp]

A Parker/Hill/Ginobili/RJ/Bowen perimeter rotation lack of a shooter.

So a Parker/Hill/Ginobili/RJ/Finley perimeter rotation = good

and a A Parker/Hill/Ginobili/RJ/Bowen perimeter rotation = lacks a shooter?

Streaky volume shootings are a dime a dozen. Considering that Finley doesn't shoot well off the bench and Bowen did shoot well off the bench last year, I don't follow the logic to begin with.

[Bruno]

So a Parker/Hill/Ginobili/RJ/Finley perimeter rotation = good


I didn't say that.

[picnroll]

At the end of the day it may turn out Finley taking the option was pre-arranged to give the Spurs maximum salary to play with in trades. Then Finley retires and everybody here dumping on him looks stupid. Afterall, like Kori said, you still have to explain his house being on the market.

[timvp]

I didn't say that.
Then what does it equal?

[Obstructed_View]

Don't villify Michael Finley for a mistake by the FO.

Pop or Finley: Pick.

[Bruno]

But even if you to ignore that, which is fine, then there are still ways to get creative to help everyone involved. Finley could opt out and then sign a two-year deal at the minimum. He would end up making more money than he is currently owed but it would cost the Spurs less because the NBA would pick up the tab for a lot of his salary.

No, the league only pays a part of the min salary for one-year contracts.
If Finley sign a two-year deal at the min, Spurs would pay 100% of his salary.

[scottspurs]

A Parker/Hill/Ginobili/RJ/Bowen perimeter rotation lack of a shooter.
Even if Mason is quite expensive, I rather keep him in that role.

McClinton?

Sounds like the Spurs really believe in this kid.

[Bruno]

Then what does it equal?

= "not good".

[EricB]

Pop or Finley: Pick.


I've already stated my stance 5 thousand times.

[loveforthegame]

Pop or Finley: Pick.

Pop and RC.

RC for giving him the contracts in the first place. With player options no less.

And Pop for playing him so much.

I wouldn't expect Finley (or anyone for that matter) to say sorry coach you need to be playing Hill and Hairston more intead of me.

[timvp]

No, the league only pays a part of the min salary for one-year contracts.
If Finley sign a two-year deal at the min, Spurs would pay 100% of his salary.Okay then do it one year at a time :hat

Bowen would have figured it out . . .

[timvp]

= "not good".

So Mason = Shooter

Finley = Not a shooter?

[EricB]

So Finley is now selfish and not a team guy.

:lol

[tp2021]

Finley picking up his option costs the Spurs $5M. Trading him with one or two other players forces Holt to spend even more money in filling out the roster. Unless we've entered bizarro world and Holt has bottomless pockets, I don't think he's going to keep okaying moves that will cost him.

In for a penny, in for a pound. Holt has gone over the lux tax already with RJ, so maybe he's thinking "I'm not spending all this money to come up short." If a trade with Finley doesn't happen, I doubt the reason will be because Holt didn't want to spend some more money at this point.

[EricB]

I would rather have Marquis Daniels for cheaper than Noc.

No gangsters on this team please, thanks.

[Obstructed_View]

I've already stated my stance 5 thousand times.

So once more won't hurt you, you spineless pussy. Pick.

[scottspurs]

So Finley is now selfish and not a team guy.

:lol

Exactly, Finley has done nothing but show class and now its like, Oh my, finley is all about the $$$$$$$$. We're talking about 2.5 million.:lol

[CGD]

The more I think about, the more I'm convinced Fin will be on the Spurs' roster next year. Unless the Spurs are trading for another expiring contract with Fin+(MB, RMJ, etc.) -- which I doubt -- whatever they bring back will cost them in LuxT not only this year, but into the next year too. Fin's 2.5M contract (really 5M after LT) expires after this year. Financially it makes sense to keep him.

[Dex]

All I know is I'm glad I'm going out to the bar tonight, otherwise I'd be sitting around refreshing Spurstalk waiting to see if Finley made up his damn mind.

[loveforthegame]

Who knows if the Spurs have even asked Finley to opt out and sign for the minimum? If that is the case and Finley refused then we could accuse of being about the money and sabotaging the team.

[DPG21920]

No gangsters on this team please, thanks.

You are so dumb sometimes. You think everyone has a low basketball IQ, want no gangsters on the team yet want Stephen Jackson back and you say Lee is an excellent shot blocker and jump shooter.

Please, shhh.

[Bruno]

So Mason = Shooter

Finley = Not a shooter?

You are some troubles understanding basic logic today.

If a Parker/Hill/Ginobili/RJ/Bowen rotation needs a shooter, it doesn't mean that you can replace one of its member by a shooter to turn it into a good rotation.

Add Finley to this rotation and it's a better rotation. Add Mason and it's an even better rotation.

IMO, the ideal perimeter rotation would be a main rotation of Parker/Hill/Mason/Ginobili/RJ with Bowen coming in for some specific defensive missions.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

All I know is I'm glad I'm going out to the bar tonight, otherwise I'd be sitting around refreshing Spurstalk waiting to see if Finley made up his damn mind.

:lol :tu

[ElNono]

No gangsters on this team please, thanks.

Drivel.
Armchair priest.

:lol

Ok, ok... I'll stop now.

[DPG21920]

LMAO if Finley opts out.

[Marcus Bryant]

I like Chapu, but loath his contract. It, together with RJ's deal, would really put a squeeze on us next summer when it comes time to make a decision on Manu. In effect, a move for Chapu could signal that the Spurs are OK with Manu being on his way out next year. I'm not sure how I feel about that...

Collison on the other had would be an interesting pick up.

Well, I guess it remains to be seen if Holt's new spendthriftiness is a one act play or if it will continue in the summer of 2010. We also have the fact that Manu has missed or has been at less than 100% in the last two postseasons. This is the reason you need more depth in the swingman rotation. Nocioni also gives you a nice small ball 4, which would be an upgrade over who the small ball 4 was last season.

Yes, the contract is big, but the Spurs just took on a guy who's making $14 mil a year when he should be making $7 mil. The % differential for Nocioni is less, IMO.

Spurs need some swingman depth and that doesn't have to be Nocioni, but I think he could be an option.

[CGD]

I'm amazed at those that think Fin (or any other player for that matter) would take less money on the sole basis of "helping out the team."

The biggest reason DRob and Duncan did so in the past was because they were/are the primaries on the team, and therefore the largest (non-FO) stakeholders in the franchise.

Over the past weeks, Fin has been getting feelers to see if he could fetch at least one one 2-3 year deal on the open market. Seeing no takers, of course he's going to pick up what is already owed to him...

[loveforthegame]

LMAO if Finley opts out.

Someone will just start up a new thread bashing him for that even.

[baseline bum]

I'm amazed at those that think Fin (or any other player for that matter) would take less money on the sole basis of "helping out the team."


Bowen did (twice).

[DPG21920]

Looks like this party is over. Finley stays. It is official

[CGD]

Well, I guess it remains to be seen if Holt's new spendthriftiness is a one act play or if it will continue in the summer of 2010. We also have the fact that Manu has missed or has been at less than 100% in the last two postseasons. This is the reason you need more depth in the swingman rotation. Nocioni also gives you a nice small ball 4, which would be an upgrade over who the small ball 4 was last season.

Yes, the contract is big, but the Spurs just took on a guy who's making $14 mil a year when he should be making $7 mil. The % differential for Nocioni is less, IMO.

Spurs need some swingman depth and that doesn't have to be Nocioni, but I think he could be an option.


Your point is well taken. IMO though, it's precisely because they just took on a big contract that they would be cautious about taking on another.

[Marcus Bryant]

In for a penny, in for a pound. Holt has gone over the lux tax already with RJ, so maybe he's thinking "I'm not spending all this money to come up short." If a trade with Finley doesn't happen, I doubt the reason will be because Holt didn't want to spend some more money at this point.

Right. I didn't get the impression that the Spurs were stopping with the Jefferson trade after the public comments by RC and Pop after it was completed.

Now they could backtrack and blame Finley opting to stay as the reason they won't use the full MLE. But I'm with you, it seems like they are ready to spend some of the lux tax benefits from prior seasons now.

[Dex]

He's baaaaaack.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130083

:smchode:

[scottspurs]

So its done finally!

[tp2021]

I think something is brewing if the Spurs have already announced his decision, when everyone thought Fin would wait til the last minute to decide...

[Trimble87]

I dont think you'll get any argument on this board about Bruce, base. In the last 15 years hes my favourite spur who isnt headed to the hall of fame. But Bruce is not a spur right now and Finley more then likely is. *edit definitely is

Im not going to hold it against him for picking up the option. If we can find a good trade with him and Bonner then thats cool... but chances are that wont hapen either. We will get a big in FA and Finley will be the SF off the bench while Bonner is the PF off the bench. If come april either one of them is averaging more then 20mpg then I will be right there with you guys with the yelling and the indignancy. But getting upset about it now seems a little premature.

If given bench player minutes (10-15) then both Finley and Bonner could be a great help to this team.

[DPG21920]

I think something is brewing if the Spurs have already announced his decision, when everyone thought Fin would wait til the last minute to decide...

This was pretty much last minute.

[timvp]

You are some troubles understanding basic logic today. Maybe I should opt out and take the ST minimum for two years. :hat


If a Parker/Hill/Ginobili/RJ/Bowen rotationIn our hypothetical, Bowen was re-signed only if Finley opted out. I don't see where we agreed Bowen is to be re-signed regardless.

If Finley doesn't opt out, Bowen's chances of coming back go south. I don't think you can just have him in a hypothetical rotation as a given.


the ideal perimeter rotation would be a main rotation of Parker/Hill/Mason/Ginobili/RJ with Bowen coming in for some specific defensive missions.Agree. And it would come to fruition much easier if Finley opts out.

In a perfect world where Holt has bottomless pockets, it'd be awesome if Finley opted to stay, the Spurs packaged him for a better player, Bowen was brought back and Holt would be willing to pay for the MLE, LLE and the extra roster spots created by the summer's second three-for-one trade. I just think that's a long shot ... especially factoring in Holt.

I'm fine with the Finley leaving, the Spurs signing Sheed or McDyess, Blair/Mahinmi/Bonner/Gist as the bigs off the bench, re-signing Bowen and the rest of the roster staying as is. To me, at least, it sounds like a much easier and more realistic journey from A to B.

[timvp]

And ............ I typed to slow.

Welcome back.

[whottt]

LMAO if Finley opts out.

STD's never opt out.

[DPG21920]

STD's never opt out.

At least they don't turn into pansy ass traders and go to the Rockets.

[pad300]

As a shooter, Finley > Bowen?

Last season
Finley FG% .437, 3P% .411
Bowen FG% .422 3P% .429

Finley and Bowen are approximately the same shooter. Bowen >>>>>> Finley at D.

[whottt]

At least they don't turn into pansy ass traders and go to the Rockets.

Sin,

Mav Fan(the incredibly stupid ones)

[ElNono]

Here's a positive: At least McDonald was right for once.

[DPG21920]

As a shooter, Finley > Bowen?

Last season
Finley FG% .437, 3P% .411
Bowen FG% .422 3P% .429

Finley and Bowen are approximately the same shooter. Bowen >>>>>> Finley at D.

Yes, but Fin can take shots from more spots on the floor.

[ElNono]

Yes, but Fin can take shots from more spots on the floor.

Does it matter if he doesn't make them?

[DPG21920]

Does it matter if he doesn't make them?

He did make shots last year. The comparison was between him and Bowen and their shooting numbers. If they are =, then why not have the guy who can score from more spots?

Strictly offensively speaking.

[ElNono]

He did make shots last year. The comparison was between him and Bowen and their shooting numbers. If they are =, then why not have the guy who can score from more spots?

Strictly offensively speaking.

Well, but there's the charade. You can't say I'm only gonna look on offense. Overall, Bowen is the better option.

[HarlemHeat37]

Yes, that's true, but Bowen's ability on defense and his shot selection makes up for that..

Finley has no ability at all to make shots off the dribble at this point of his career..when he takes any type of dribble, he's going to miss..his offense really isn't significantly better than Bowen, it's just that he has more hot spots on the floor..

I'd rather have the guy that can only make consistent 3s on 2 parts of the floor, but will play good defense..instead of the guy that can make more shots on the floor, but doesn't play defense and takes horrible shots..

[DPG21920]

Well, but there's the charade. You can't say I'm only gonna look on offense. Overall, Bowen is the better option.

Well, that was not what I was responding to in the intial quote. The guy was comparing Bowen to Finley on offense.

[hater]

If I had to pick between Finley and Bowen. It's a nobrainer. Bowen. We already have plenty firepower

[Spursmania]

More Bowen less Finley, please.

[bless1187]

I think the majority of the Spurs Talk's users have been extremely unfair to M. Finley. He is definitely no longer starting material; but he is not trash either; some are saying that M. Finley is dead weight and they would rather play 4 on 5 if M. Finley were meant to play. M. Finley have made plenty of big shots on the Spurs the last 4 years; he was brought in to play his role which is knocking down the open shots and playing adequate defense; and he did that role fairly fine. Still to this day, i feel that M. Finley is still our best shooter on this team. I don't think he should play the role that he played last year which was close to 30 mpg as our starting SF; but i think he could fill the role of a backup just fine at 15-20 mpg. And some Spur's fan got to give up the fact that B. Bowen is coming back to play the backup SF spot; we had a lot of great years with B. Bowen, but age has finally caught up with him; and i think that was the main reason Pop kept him out the rotation for some times last year until M. Ginobili got injured. I really like this current depth chart once we sign a big man.

T. Parker / G. Hill / J. Mclinton
R. Mason / M. Ginobili / M. Hairston
R. Jefferson / M. Finley / J. Gist
R. Wallace / D. Blair / M. Bonner
T. Duncan / I. Mahnimi

[DBMethos]

I think what most posters are afraid of is that Pop's mancrush on Finley prevents him from playing Fin in limited minutes, even when his shot isn't falling.

[ElNono]

There are another two threads for this. Did you really need to start another one?

[bless1187]

I think what most posters are afraid of is that Pop's mancrush on Finley prevents him from playing Fin in limited minutes, even when his shot isn't falling.

well last year, we didn't really have that much option at SF, and M. Finley was arguably our best SF in Pop's eye since the only other option was B. Bowen and I. Udoka; and from what i've seen from the play of the latter 2, Pop made the right choice in giving M. Finley the minutes.

[z0sa]

because Pop can't be trusted (#1), and Finley is washed up (#2). If Pop uses him as the locker room/end of the bench guy he is, there's no problem.

He's a Pop favorite, and everyone seems to like him. Unless we get burned because of his salary ...

[crc21209]

I think the majority of the Spurs Talk's users have been extremely unfair to M. Finley. He is definitely no longer starting material; but he is not trash either; some are saying that M. Finley is dead weight and they would rather play 4 on 5 if M. Finley were meant to play. M. Finley have made plenty of big shots on the Spurs the last 4 years; he was brought in to play his role which is knocking down the open shots and playing adequate defense; and he did that role fairly fine. Still to this day, i feel that M. Finley is still our best shooter on this team. I don't think he should play the role that he played last year which was close to 30 mpg as our starting SF; but i think he could fill the role of a backup just fine at 15-20 mpg. And some Spur's fan got to give up the fact that B. Bowen is coming back to play the backup SF spot; we had a lot of great years with B. Bowen, but age has finally caught up with him; and i think that was the main reason Pop kept him out the rotation for some times last year until M. Ginobili got injured. I really like this current depth chart once we sign a big man.

T. Parker / G. Hill / J. Mclinton
R. Mason / M. Ginobili / M. Hairston
R. Jefferson / M. Finley / J. Gist
R. Wallace / D. Blair / M. Bonner
T. Duncan / I. Mahnimi


If we can get Bowen back, I would love this roster even more:


T. Parker / G. Hill / J. Mclinton
R. Mason / M. Ginobili / M. Hairston
R. Jefferson / Bruce Bowen/ M. Finley / J. Gist
R. Wallace / D. Blair / M. Bonner
T. Duncan / I. Mahnimi

That is a 15-man roster right there. :tu. The players on IR would probably be Hairston, Gist, and Mclinton or someone else. Besides, you can change the IR from day to day so...I would be fine with this roster right here. Hell, even put Fin on IR and just let him be a voice in the locker room.

[objective]

I think the majority of the Spurs Talk's users have been extremely unfair to M. Finley.

... we had a lot of great years with B. Bowen, but age has finally caught up with him

you think age caught up with Bowen . . . but hasn't caught up with Finley?

[SonOfAGun]

The armchair quarterbacks are out in full force no question.

strong white knight

[bless1187]

you think age caught up with Bowen . . . but hasn't caught up with Finley?

well i'm sure it caught up with M. Finley a long time ago, since now he's just restrictedly a spot up shooter. M. Finley still got one of the sweetest J on the team, and age can't catch up with the way the man shoots. While B. Bowen is a defensive stopper, so age will affect his game more since he need the speed and quickness to guard the perimeter players out there.

[bless1187]

As a shooter, Finley > Bowen?

Last season
Finley FG% .437, 3P% .411
Bowen FG% .422 3P% .429

Finley and Bowen are approximately the same shooter. Bowen >>>>>> Finley at D.

so you are saying that B. Diaw is also a better shooter than R. Allen since if you want to talk statistics, B. Diaw also shot better from the 3pt line than R. Allen did last year. If you watch basketball, you know M. Finley as a jump shooter >>>>>>>>> B. Bowen as a jump shooter.

[timvp]

The only way Finley won't play too much is if: 1) He's not on the team 2) Pop is fired.

Two isn't going to happen so one is the only hope.


It's hilarious that this thread is playing out like last year's thread about Finley re-signing (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103083). So many Spurs fans were convinced that Finley would be used as a deep reserve and that Pop had learned his lesson in playing him too much. What happened? Finley played more than ever.

If Pop can bench a Spurs legend who had been named to the All-Defensive team for the last eight years or whatever it was to make room for Finley, he'll find a way once again. If you could guarantee that Finley would take a Steve Smith 2003 role, I'd be fine with him coming back. But if he's part of the rotation at all this coming season, I don't think the team wins a championship. Finley is just too horrible at defense, too soft and too much of a volume shooter who gets cold at the absolute wrong times.

This is becoming an annual event.

1. timvp gets mad that Finley is returning.

2. ST posters say that Finley will only get spot minutes and play a small role.

3. timvp says Pop will find a way to play Finley too much.

4. Pop finds a way to play Finley too much.

5. Rinse repeat for the next season.

[Warlord23]

6. The "true fans" suck Pop's dick and wait for his mysterious tactics to pan out

[xtremesteven33]

The world may never know.....

[kobyz]

finley is not playing too much, just 20MPG and it will get down when Manu and RJ will get in the groove, right now Finley getting 20MPG cause he is better option than Mason. Finley has only one bad game and there you jumping, calm down!

[UnWantedTheory]

Talk shit in another 15-20 games. Its only the 4th game....geez.

[hsxvvd]

finley is not playing too much, just 20MPG and it will get down when Manu and RJ will get in the groove, right now Finley getting 20MPG cause he is better option than Mason. Finley has only one bad game and there you jumping, calm down!


Only one? What games have you been watching?

[MannyIsGod]

We're fucked man. Its official that Fin has pictures of Pop fucking Rasho in the broom closet or something close to that because this is just fucked up. There's no fucking need to play Finley.

WHAT
THE
FUCK

[Manu20]

Mason should start and take most if not all of finley's minutes.

[baseline bum]

This is becoming an annual event.

1. timvp gets mad that Finley is returning.

2. ST posters say that Finley will only get spot minutes and play a small role.

3. timvp says Pop will find a way to play Finley too much.

4. Pop finds a way to play Finley too much.

5. Rinse repeat for the next season.

I've given up on a sensible role for Finley. I hate that Pop's Finley love has now fully carried over to Bonner's ass though.

[HarlemHeat37]

All I'm going to say..

Mason and Finley play the same way..we don't have room for both..one of them has to be moved to make room for a guy with a different skill-set..I'd obviously rather have Roger, but he would probably bring in a better player in a trade..

Finley would be good on a younger team, as a veteran presence that could come in once in a while for some shooting..he won't be good on this team, because the coach uses him in a much bigger role than he can successfully play..

Michael Finley is ONLY good when he's hot..that's it..he doesn't have a middle-ground, he's either hot or cold..when he isn't making shots at a consistent rate, he hurts the team..bad shot selection, horrible passer, can't rebound, can't play defense..

there's still time, isn't there?..probably not:depressed..

[Blackjack]

I've officially gone numb when it comes to Fin and Bonner.

I sit in front of my computer and read plenty of logical posts that I agree with and some that are absolutely ridiculous and, yet, I just can't bring myself to go any more in depth on the topic.

I'm done with these two.

I'm washing my hands of the filth that is their starting roles.

The sad thing is, I don't really have a problem with either of them individually. They're both quality people and professionals that could be an asset to most any team given the proper role and minutes. It's not their fault Pop utilizes them the way he does, right? (incriminating photos and affairs are only speculation -- logical, but speculation -- at this point)

So that's it. I'm done trying to convince myself or this board of the misguided approach Pop's taken with the two; I will no longer allow it suck my will to live.

So in the words of the immortal B. Bowen:

It is what it is..

[HarlemHeat37]

We should all pitch in some $ to hire the best PI to dig some dirt and figure out what's going on..the sad part is that I'm not joking in any way..it would actually be the only way to figure this out, we deserve to know..

[timvp]

Damn, did the bump finally put Finley starting to bed?

:smokin

[MannyIsGod]

Damn, did the bump finally put Finley starting to bed?

:smokin

As if Bogans is any better? What the fuck is wrong with Pop? Bogans may sound like Bowen but its not the fucking same. Should have fucking kept Bowen if this is the plan.

[HarlemHeat37]

Unless Bogans has a bad game..

[timvp]

As if Bogans is any better? What the fuck is wrong with Pop? Bogans may sound like Bowen but its not the fucking same. Should have fucking kept Bowen if this is the plan.

Agree that Bowen > Bogans. But at this point, I'd say Bogans > Finley.

Baby step, I guess.

[Das Texan]

Its too bad Bogans is beyond fucking shit offensively. He makes Bruce look like fucking Lebron James offensively.


I would like to see us just run with Mason or even Hairston in the starting lineup at the 2 for a while.

[DPG21920]

I feel very confident in saying Malik would be better than Bogans or Finley.

[MannyIsGod]

Its only the fifth game so let Pop expiriment away and I'm all for Finley sitting but this really pisses me off considering that could be Bruce fucking Bowen.

[DPG21920]

They had already made up their mind last season that Bruce was done. He was probably close to it, but he could still have been useful so far. Bogans having a nice game, but I would like to see Malik activated.

I understand he has his short comings, but he has looked solid on both sides every time he has played so far. Maybe he is not holding his own in practice, but I find that hard to believe.

[Spurminator]

Its only the fifth game so let Pop expiriment away and I'm all for Finley sitting but this really pisses me off considering that could be Bruce fucking Bowen.

I was thinking the exact same thing when I saw the starting lineup.

Very confusing.

Anyone else think we could use some corner three right now?