Michael Curry Fired

[sribb43]

per Chad Ford's ESPN chat...just happened

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

lateral move. That team was 4-0 before Billups got traded. Not Curry's fault.

[Walter Herrmann]

lateral move. That team was 4-0 before Billups got traded. Not Curry's fault.
You don't understand.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You don't understand.


I understand any team where you're a rotation player is gonna suck regardless of the coach.

[Red Hawk #21]

I understand any team where you're a rotation player is gonna suck regardless of the coach.

:lol

[Dex]

Boom goes the dynamite.

[lefty]

Dale Curry > Stephen Curry > Eddie Curry > Michael Curry

[JamStone]

lateral move. That team was 4-0 before Billups got traded. Not Curry's fault.

Lateral move? They haven't hired the next coach yet. So that's a contention you have wait to make.

4-0 with Billups, so is it fair to say the Pistons would have gone 82-0 with Billups last year?

I don't completely disagree with what you're getting at, but Curry wasn't fire only because of the record. He failed to do what he was brought in to do. He was supposed to strengthen the defense. The defense got worse. He was supposed to control the players better. The players were just as uncontrollable. He was supposed to be a good leader. He wasn't. He was supposed to do a better job at communicating and getting through to his players. When he sent Rip Hamilton to the bench, he didn't even warn or even talk to Rip before he told the entire team in a team meeting. It was more than just record. That's not even getting into his failings as a strategist and in-game manager.

I wasn't happy with the hire and I'm glad he's no longer coach. One problem is that Joe Dumars plays musical chairs with coaches too much. While any head coaching job in the NBA is a job that will always have candidates, Dumars may be slimming down the selection because there are some of the better candidates that may not want to coach in Detroit with a roster that isn't very good anymore and a GM who has a quick hook. There's no shortage of candidates, but maybe there is among the better, more qualified ones.

[mytespurs]

I was listening to one of the sirius xm sports station when this news broke. Talk of a possible coaching candidate:

Bill Lambeer?

Discuss

[lefty]

Dennis Rodman FTW

[JamStone]

Names being mentioned:

Doug Collins
Tom Thibodeau
Avery Johnson
Jeff Van Gundy

Names "fans" have mentioned:

Bill Laimbeer
Rudy Tomjanovich
Sam Mitchell

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Jamstone I'm not even going to argue with you about this. I hate when people who watched the Suns twice all year act like they know more about what went on than I do, so I'm not about to argue about something you know a lot more about.

All I'm saying is, Denver traded Iverson for Billups, and their defense went from crappy to good. Detroit traded Billups for Iverson, and their defense went from good to crappy. I have no idea how much blame you can put on Curry there. The main reason I'm giving Curry the benefit of the doubt has nothing to do with Curry personally, it's merely my tendency to side with the coach when stuff like this happens.

The NBA is a player's league IMO. My view is the players need to discipline themselves and they have to want to play defense. George Karl got too much blame for when Denver didn't play defense in 2008, and got too much credit when Denver played defense last year. Doc Rivers got too much blame for Boston's 2007 season, and got too much credit for Boston's 2008 season. That's just how I always look at situations like this.

[Kriz-Maxima]

There is a God! I believe! I believe!

[scampers]

I think the Piston's biggest problem was the crazy, messed up roster Joe gave us after the Billups trade.

That being said, I still don't believe we would of made the ECF with Billups+Curry. The guy had no idea what he was doing when it came to rotation and X's and O's.

[urunobili]

Names being mentioned:

Doug Collins
Tom Thibodeau
Avery Johnson
Jeff Van Gundy

Names "fans" have mentioned:

Bill Laimbeer
Rudy Tomjanovich
Sam Mitchell

All those names are HUGE :tu

[Vinnie_Johnson]

There is a God! I believe! I believe!

:toast

[mytespurs]

Names being mentioned:

Doug Collins
Tom Thibodeau
Avery Johnson
Jeff Van Gundy

Names "fans" have mentioned:

Bill Laimbeer
Rudy Tomjanovich
Sam Mitchell

I heard Laimbeer's name mentioned as a possible candidate by sports talk show hosts as well. I'm not sure Pistons may look in that direction.

Who do you think would be the best candidate for this job?

[scampers]

I like Avery and JVG.. maybe even Sam Mitchell, but I honestly don't know enough about him. I don't like Laimbeer taking a head coach job straight out of the WNBA.. let him be an assistant for a bit. I think he has potential, but I don't think it's the right time for him just yet.

[JamStone]

Jamstone I'm not even going to argue with you about this. I hate when people who watched the Suns twice all year act like they know more about what went on than I do, so I'm not about to argue about something you know a lot more about.

All I'm saying is, Denver traded Iverson for Billups, and their defense went from crappy to good. Detroit traded Billups for Iverson, and their defense went from good to crappy. I have no idea how much blame you can put on Curry there. The main reason I'm giving Curry the benefit of the doubt has nothing to do with Curry personally, it's merely my tendency to side with the coach when stuff like this happens.

The NBA is a player's league IMO. My view is the players need to discipline themselves and they have to want to play defense. George Karl got too much blame for when Denver didn't play defense in 2008, and got too much credit when Denver played defense last year. Doc Rivers got too much blame for Boston's 2007 season, and got too much credit for Boston's 2008 season. That's just how I always look at situations like this.

Fair enough. I know what you were trying to get at. I was just trying to say that it was more than just the record. Curry wasn't put in a great position to succeed. The problem is that he didn't succeed at things that he could have either.

I am 100% behind the notion that it's still a player's league. Coaching is overrated most of the time, except when it's bad coaching. Especially when a coach has lost his players' respect and cannot get through to them, it's a next to impossible situation for the team to succeed.

I never liked the hire in the first place. Didn't like his coaching all throughout the season. And, I'm happy he's no longer the head coach. I don't blame it all on Curry, but I completely agree with the decision to let him go.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Fair enough. I know what you were trying to get at. I was just trying to say that it was more than just the record. Curry wasn't put in a great position to succeed. The problem is that he didn't succeed at things that he could have either.

I am 100% behind the notion that it's still a player's league. Coaching is overrated most of the time, except when it's bad coaching. Especially when a coach has lost his players' respect and cannot get through to them, it's a next to impossible situation for the team to succeed.

I never liked the hire in the first place. Didn't like his coaching all throughout the season. And, I'm happy he's no longer the head coach. I don't blame it all on Curry, but I completely agree with the decision to let him go.


Yeah the whole "more than just the record" thing is something I know nothing about.

Being happy when a coach gets fired is one thing, heck I was happy when Porter got fired, I was just mad that people thought the team had no problems other than Porter and that Porter was the reason we weren't watching the 2nd coming of the 1986 Celtcis.

[bdubya]

I was listening to one of the sirius xm sports station when this news broke. Talk of a possible coaching candidate:

Bill Lambeer?

Discuss

Well, the Freep seems to like the idea...

Laimbeer's move toward the NBA well-received (http://www.freep.com/article/20090616/SPORTS03/906160354/1051/SPORTS03/Laimbeer+s+move+toward+the+NBA+well-received+)

OTOH, the Freep doesn't like the idea at all...

Bill Laimbeer has no shot at coaching in the NBA (http://www.freep.com/article/20090616/COL22/90616095/1051/SPORTS03/Bill+Laimbeer+has+no+shot+at+coaching+in+the+NBA)

(okay, it's two different writers' opinions...printed on the same day)

[Kriz-Maxima]

The roster was screwed and there was a lot of attitude, but the man had no offensive or defensive plan. At all. His out of time out plays would be " uh...uh...Dice make a screen", his rotations were fishy and constantly put on the floor a set of guys that didn't work well together. Instead of running plays or trying to implement a system he held on to the belief that guys would gel through the season and a style would develop on its own. He failed to do every single thing he said would do, didn't held players accountable, didn't put emphasis on defense and he wasn't a player's coach, instead he was master of the universe, except he knew nothing about that universe.

He did get a raw deal on his first season, no question about that, and I do feel bad because he didnt get what he signed up for. But when you are supposed to be a defensive minded coach and have guys like Tay and Sheed lost on defense, then you just have a very bad problem.

[mytespurs]

I like Avery and JVG.. maybe even Sam Mitchell, but I honestly don't know enough about him. I don't like Laimbeer taking a head coach job straight out of the WNBA.. let him be an assistant for a bit. I think he has potential, but I don't think it's the right time for him just yet.


I'm listening to tirico this morning and he mentioned that Dumars likes either Doug Collins or Avery Johnson. Not bad choices there. Should be interesting.

[SenorSpur]

Fair enough. I know what you were trying to get at. I was just trying to say that it was more than just the record. Curry wasn't put in a great position to succeed. The problem is that he didn't succeed at things that he could have either.

I am 100% behind the notion that it's still a player's league. Coaching is overrated most of the time, except when it's bad coaching. Especially when a coach has lost his players' respect and cannot get through to them, it's a next to impossible situation for the team to succeed.

I never liked the hire in the first place. Didn't like his coaching all throughout the season. And, I'm happy he's no longer the head coach. I don't blame it all on Curry, but I completely agree with the decision to let him go.

Jamstone, I defer to you on this and all things Pistons. Consider the following:

Shouldn't Dumars bear the brunt of this most recent coaching fiasco? After all, it was he that thought Curry had sufficient enough grooming to assume the job in the first place. And the players? Were they ever happy with any coach they've had there? Carlisle? Brown? Curry? Didn't Collins take a spin through Detroit too? I know Brown was a flake, so I can't blame Dumars for that, even though the players seemingly loved the guy.

Back to Dumars, it was also his grand idea to create the necessary salary cap flexibility by dumping Billiups for Iverson. How'd that turnout? Iverson seemingly caused that entire team to implode. They began to mimic his rather selfish brand of ball. Dumars had to know the affect that acquisition would have had on the team, but he made the trade anyway. What did he get? An large chunk of an available salary slot, a bunch of money to spend in a very weak free agent year.

It was also Dumars who elected to pass on Carmelo Anthony for Darko back in 2003. He also let Okur walk in free agency a few years back.

In truth, I have a lot of respect for Dumars as a former player and executive. I guess I'm saying what some others have said earlier, Dumars has certainly made some very questionable decisions and it's always easy to blame the coach.

Your thoughts?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Coaching is overrated most of the time, except when it's bad coaching.


Eh IMO I think a coach's negative impact is overblown just as often as a coach's positive impact. There are a few coaches that can come in and noticeably improve a team (Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Larry Brown etc.) immediately without any significant roster changes, but unless you are firing a coach and bringing in one of those coaches, the team isn't going to get a whole lot better with that move alone.

[Spursmania]

:clap:clap:clap:clap

[mardigan]

Good for you Pistons, that guy was maybe the worst coach in the league.

[JamStone]

Jamstone, I defer to you on this and all things Pistons. Consider the following:

Shouldn't Dumars bear the brunt of this most recent coaching fiasco? After all, it was he that thought Curry had sufficient enough grooming to assume the job in the first place. And the players? Were they ever happy with any coach they've had there? Carlisle? Brown? Curry? Didn't Collins take a spin through Detroit too? I know Brown was a flake, so I can't blame Dumars for that, even though the players seemingly loved the guy.

Yes, Dumars takes blame also, not just for hiring Curry, but for other moves that have had negative impacts on the team and its success.

In each of the coaching changes under Dumars, it was more than just a basketball related thing that spurred the firing/change. With Rick Carlisle, I think Dumars was pretty happy with the job he had done. But rumors circulated that Carlisle was a prick to the office people and that the owner, the late Bill Davidson, didn't like him. It's rumored that Carlisle's firing was essentially a mandate from the owner. But, because the Pistons were able to also get Larry Brown, the story wasn't that big of a deal. Larry Brown was without a doubt an upgrade over Carlisle at the time, so whether the reason for Carlisle being fired, the move could be viewed as improving the team.

Larry Brown was fired in a similar fashion as Bill Davidson grew to abhor Larry Brown. He got fed up with his drama and the talks about him having discussions over taking a job with the Cavaliers. And, Davidson felt Brown milked his hip problem and took too much time off. He was similarly fired because the owner called for it.

I think Bill Davidson more or less liked Flip Saunders. It was the players that didn't like Flip Saunders. Rasheed and Rip basically disrespected Flip Saunders. They didn't listen to him, didn't really talk to him. Dumars made the move in large part because he didn't like how the players responded to Saunders anymore.

With Curry being hired, that was supposed to change. But, it ultimately didn't. The players didn't respect Curry's mind as a coach, and it showed. Part of it was because of chemistry problems after Billups was traded and Iverson came in. But, Curry still failed at things he was brought in to do, improve the defense, control the players, and communicate with them better. Curry was unable to do those things.

But, Dumars absolutely shares blame here.



Back to Dumars, it was also his grand idea to create the necessary salary cap flexibility by dumping Billiups for Iverson. How'd that turnout?

None of us know how it turned out yet. The Pistons haven't used the cap flexibility yet. And, when they do, we won't know until the season plays out and we see whoever the Pistons get with that cap space and how he or they perform.



Iverson seemingly caused that entire team to implode. They began to mimic his rather selfish brand of ball. Dumars had to know the affect that acquisition would have had on the team, but he made the trade anyway. What did he get? An large chunk of an available salary slot, a bunch of money to spend in a very weak free agent year.

From a basketball perspective, it was a horrible trade. Dumars did think Allen would help. I did too. We were dead wrong. He was horrible for the Pistons. As I just said, until we actually know how the cap space will be used and what those players bring to the Pistons, you and I both cannot make a determination if the trade was worth it.

I will say this, however. If the Pistons don't trade Billups, the Pistons would have been a better team but still not get farther than the ECF at best. They wouldn't have beaten the Cavaliers for sure. They have Orlando's number, but there was no guarantee that Orlando was the only team that was going to be in the way. And, you can't predict injuries to star players. A healthy Boston team still dismantles the Pistons easily as well. You have to weigh whether going two or three rounds in the playoffs for a team that has gone to the conference finals 6 straight years is enough to justify keeping the team in tact or make a move that may or may not work out the current season but open up possibilities to improve the team in the near future rather than wait until the window is completely shut and having to start from scratch. It's something GMs have to determine. Whether or not Dumars made the right decision by that standard, we have yet to find out.



It was also Dumars who elected to pass on Carmelo Anthony for Darko back in 2003. He also let Okur walk in free agency a few years back.[/'QUOTE]

Horrible draft day. It was the passing of Chris Bosh more so than Carmelo that should haunt Dumars. But I will say this as I have before, 98% of NBA GMs and scouts were prepared to take Darko over Carmelo too. The draft is a guessing game. There are very few sure-things in the NBA draft. And, even sure-things (think Len Bias and Jay Williams) aren't really sure things.


[QUOTE]In truth, I have a lot of respect for Dumars as a former player and executive. I guess I'm saying what some others have said earlier, Dumars has certainly made some very questionable decisions and it's always easy to blame the coach.

Dumars has made plenty of bad moves, and moreover some of his bad moves were historically horrible in retrospect. You'll still find very few GMs who have done as many good things as Dumars. And you probably won't find one other GM today and maybe in the history of the game that started from scratch and was able to build a championship team without a single Hall of Fame player (I don't think Ben Wallace gets into the HOF).

I don't think Dumars firing Curry means he's blaming Curry, at least not putting all the blame on him. Are you suggesting Dumars should fire himself? Dumars made the move because the players didn't respect Curry and it's hard to win with a team like that. I already mentioned how Curry failed at things he could have controlled despite the trade. It's not all on Curry, but he gets no absolution either. Pro sports is a cut throat, dog-eat-dog business. Curry was in a tough situation, but it was the right decision to let him go.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/sean_mackers/hotrod.gif

I feel like dancing.

[Muser]

Part of me feels sorry for the dude, I mean yeah he's a pretty shit coach, but the Pistons traded away their franchise player for a Cancer, that's a hard job for even the best coaches.

[Darrin]

Don't feel sorry for him. I felt intelligent watching him make a decision. That's a bad coach making a million dollars to do it. He stole money from the Pistons.

[SenorSpur]

I don't think Dumars firing Curry means he's blaming Curry, at least not putting all the blame on him. Are you suggesting Dumars should fire himself? Dumars made the move because the players didn't respect Curry and it's hard to win with a team like that. I already mentioned how Curry failed at things he could have controlled despite the trade. It's not all on Curry, but he gets no absolution either. Pro sports is a cut throat, dog-eat-dog business. Curry was in a tough situation, but it was the right decision to let him go.

No, I'm not suggesting Dumars fire himself. What I am saying is that it's clear that Curry was "in over his head" before he even took the job. I knew when he elected to insert AI into the starting lineup, without talking to Rip, that his relationship with Rip would never be the same. And it's not just that. It's, as you've mentioned, the lack of in-game adjustments, coaching strategy and command of the team. Players, at that level, have to allow you to coach them. Curry was trumpeted by Dumars, as a guy who would hold players accountable. It's obvious the Curry never seemed to win over the lockerroom. Then, Dumars didn't do his coach any favors when he dumped AI into his lap, with just a few games into the season. Then, it was all downhill from there. Curry didn't have a chance in hell of being successful.

Same thing that went on in Phoenix. Kerr changed coaches, and was momentarily committed toward changing offensive and defensive philosophies. Yet, he didn't do enough to change the culture of the team, including the players. The players openly rebelled and the owner and GM panicked. Decided to go back to their original style, yet the coach they needed was in New York by then. Therefore, Porter never had a chance.

In Detroit, Curry never had a chance either, despite being handpicked by the GM. Sure it was right to let Curry go. However, my point is that Dumars should've never hired Curry in the first place.

All that said, who would you like to see as the next Pistons coach? Any love for former Piston and Dumars teammate, Bill Laimbeer?

[ShoogarBear]

Doug Collins????????

[sonic21]

I'd hire Bill Laimbeer or Avery Johnson

[sonic21]

or Allen Iverson player/coach :tu

[lefty]

or Allen Iverson player/coach :tu
Free bagels and coffee, no practice :tu

[JamStone]

No, I'm not suggesting Dumars fire himself. What I am saying is that it's clear that Curry was "in over his head" before he even took the job. I knew when he elected to insert AI into the starting lineup, without talking to Rip, that his relationship with Rip would never be the same. And it's not just that. It's, as you've mentioned, the lack of in-game adjustments, coaching strategy and command of the team. Players, at that level, have to allow you to coach them. Curry was trumpeted by Dumars, as a guy who would hold players accountable. It's obvious the Curry never seemed to win over the lockerroom. Then, Dumars didn't do his coach any favors when he dumped AI into his lap, with just a few games into the season. Then, it was all downhill from there. Curry didn't have a chance in hell of being successful.

Same thing that went on in Phoenix. Kerr changed coaches, and was momentarily committed toward changing offensive and defensive philosophies. Yet, he didn't do enough to change the culture of the team, including the players. The players openly rebelled and the owner and GM panicked. Decided to go back to their original style, yet the coach they needed was in New York by then. Therefore, Porter never had a chance.

In Detroit, Curry never had a chance either, despite being handpicked by the GM. Sure it was right to let Curry go. However, my point is that Dumars should've never hired Curry in the first place.

All that said, who would you like to see as the next Pistons coach? Any love for former Piston and Dumars teammate, Bill Laimbeer?

Dumars made a poor hire with Curry. What else can Dumars do besides fire him after realizing it? There are no time machines. He can't go back and not hire Curry. That's why the decision to fire him was good, because at least Dumars isn't drawing it out and letting him coach another season.

Curry was put in a bad position. It was going to be very difficult to succeed with what happened, particularly after the Billups/Iverson trade. But, I've already mentioned that it wasn't just about wins and losses. The decision was likely made because of things that didn't have to do with winning or losing, like his failure to communicate and get through to his players, his defensive style not helping their defense improve even though that's what he was brought in to help improve, his lack of leadership skills. It's not only that he didn't win and not only that he wasn't a very good x's and o's coach, but those other things also made it easy to see why Dumars fired him.

I don't dislike him as a person. He just wasn't a good coach. Dumars can take all the blame you want to assign him for hiring him in the first place. But, at least he fired him before he allowed his mistake to continue to coach.

Out of all the names of candidates being thrown around, my personal first choice would be Jeff Van Gundy. That's just me though. I'm sure plenty of Pistons fans wouldn't want him coaching the Pistons. If not him, I would have no problem with either Doug Collins or Avery Johnson. Neither would be ideal, but both are considerable upgrades over Curry. Most of the candidates are.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Out of all the names of candidates being thrown around, my personal first choice would be Jeff Van Gundy. That's just me though. I'm sure plenty of Pistons fans wouldn't want him coaching the Pistons. If not him, I would have no problem with either Doug Collins or Avery Johnson. Neither would be ideal, but both are considerable upgrades over Curry. Most of the candidates are.

I'd love to get JVG. He's the top of my list. I was hoping we'd go after him last year. And I'd actually be fine w/ Doug knowing that his message would get tired pretty quick. But I don't think he's looking for more than 2 years or so. It fits. In some ways I'd almost prefer him to JVG as I think he might be better teaching all our young kids.

[VivaPopovich]

best move dumars made in years

[JamStone]

I'd love to get JVG. He's the top of my list. I was hoping we'd go after him last year. And I'd actually be fine w/ Doug knowing that his message would get tired pretty quick. But I don't think he's looking for more than 2 years or so. It fits. In some ways I'd almost prefer him to JVG as I think he might be better teaching all our young kids.

If they hired JVG, I would love for Rasheed to come back one more year with the Pistons just to watch those two interact. Jeff almost seems fond of Rasheed when he talks about him or jokes about the "ball don't lie" phrase. I'd want to see how he'd actually respond to having to coach him. Lol.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

That "ball don't lie" thing is hilarious.