Spurs swingmen since George Gervin

[ambchang]

A look back to the last 25 or so years, the Spurs had actually been blessed with a relatively decent group of swingmen. Here is my attempt to look at the swingmen who have made significant contributions to the team since George Gervin (sorry Lloyd Daniels).

Alvin Robertson

Alvin Robertson was most definitely the best Spur for a couple of years during the dark days of the mid 80s. While most here considered him one of the best the Spurs had to offer, I generally considered him relatively overrated.

He had great statistics for a SG, incredible rebounding skills, great defender who is quick and strong, and can score relatively well, but I also find him to play the passing lanes too much, and saw his scoring bloated on a bad Spurs team.

Regardless, there is no question that he was what kept the Spurs from being even worse during those few years between Gervin and Robinson.

Willie Anderson

Exceeding all expectations during his rookie season, Willie Anderson seemed destined for greatness. Unfortunately, injuries derailed his career by robbing his quickness. He worked hard in improving his outside shooting, but he just wasn’t the same without the slashing.

Sean Elliott

Elliott was one of the best swingman the Spurs had in the last 25 or so years. He can score in a variety of ways (slashing, outside, can even post up once in a blue moon), was a decent passer, fantastic perimeter defender, and a great teammate in general.

He was also the best teammate Robinson ever had until Duncan joined the Spurs.

Chuck Person

He joined the Spurs when he was old and way past his prime, but he provided the Spurs with outside shooting. Along with Dale Ellis, the Spurs FO attempted to provide David Robinson with the perimeter threat to open up the middle. I somehow think that Chuck Person was forced to retire after killing his back when his chair broke and fell on the team plane, would be great if someone could verify this.

Vinny Del Negro

A shooter who doesn’t have too much range, Del Negro carved out a niche with the Spurs by playing off David Robinson for a few successful years. His defense was generally poor, and he does not excel in any one facet of the game, but one thing he could do relatively well was catch and shoot.

Jaren Jackson

Jaren Jackson was supposed to be an insignificant player on the Spurs. The only reason he had a starting role with the Spurs was because the other option was Vinny Del Negro. Once Mario Elie was on board, Jaren Jackson went to the bench. But all of this doesn’t matter, because Jaren Jackson caught fire at the best possible time – during the playoffs of the Spurs first championship run. His weight issues and general lack of skill meant that he was out of the league only a few years removed from that scorching playoff run he had in 1999.

Mario Elie

What he lacks in athleticism, he made it up with heart. Mario Elie was strong and fearless, taking and making clutch shots first for the Rockets, and then for the Spurs. He was an absolute menace on defense until the league changed its rules and outlawed handchecking. Elie was credited with bringing the fire to the Spurs for their first championship run.

Derek Anderson

Blessed with quickness and size, Derek Anderson was actually viewed as a Spurs savior for a while. Too bad the man was a douche.

Bruce Bowen

Bowen was a role player, and he made sure he fulfilled his role to perfection. You can probably count the number of players who were better than Bowen as a perimeter defender in the history of the league in one hand. He was quick, resourceful, relentless and versatile. Through the years, Bowen guarded anyone from Steve Nash to Dirk Nowitzki, from Kobe Bryant to Ray Allen with great success.

He also was a hard worker who continued to improve his game. He improved his 3 pt shooting as his career progressed, and later expanded his shooting spot to more than just the corner three. He also worked on his ball handling and stop and pop jumper. While he will never be any kind of an offensive force, he worked on it enough to not be a liability on that end of the floor.

Stephen Jackson

A rare player with a controversial background playing under Pop, Jackson blossomed into a star after leaving the Spurs. But it was during the 2003 playoffs when he made a name for himself.

Stephen Jackson was athletic, clutch, and fearless. He plays with a boundless energy that sometimes makes him do stupid things on the court, but his positives far outweighs his negatives. He was a strong, quick, long and willing defender, when he catches fire, there is nothing and nobody who can stop him. He rebounds well, he passes well. Too bad his agent read the market wrong and demanded more money than the Spurs could afford.

Hedo Turkgolu

This guy has size, has handles, can shoot, can pass, can drive, and is the total offensive package. Unfortunately for the Spurs, his clutchness came about 5 years late.
Manu Ginobili

The best swingman the Spurs have ever had behind Gervin, Ginobili brought more to the Spurs than statistics could measure. He has this fire and passion about the game that were unmatched by anyone else.

Of course, he can also ball. Ginobili can score in a variety of ways, but is especially effective slashing to the basket. His defense has improved through the years as well, making Ginobili an asset on that end. He is a creative passer and a decent rebounder for his size.

Richard Jefferson

Jefferson excels around the rim. He can drive and dunk with the best of them, is extremely athletic, and was once an excellent perimeter defender and excellent rebounder. Time will tell if he could be the next Sean Elliott or the next Derek Anderson.

[SenorSpur]

Alvin Robertson

Alvin Robertson was most definitely the best Spur for a couple of years during the dark days of the mid 80s. While most here considered him one of the best the Spurs had to offer, I generally considered him relatively overrated.

He had great statistics for a SG, incredible rebounding skills, great defender who is quick and strong, and can score relatively well, but I also find him to play the passing lanes too much, and saw his scoring bloated on a bad Spurs team.

Regardless, there is no question that he was what kept the Spurs from being even worse during those few years between Gervin and Robinson.

Right there, I've got to stop you. Alvin Robertson was one of the best players in Spurs history.

In 1986, Robertson became the inaugural winner of the NBA Most Improved Player Award. This also marked the first of four National Basketball Association All-Star Game appearances for the guard (the others coming in 1987, 1988, and 1991). He also won the NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award in 1986, and led the league in steals in 1986, 1987 and 1991. Robertson still holds the top career steals-per-game average in the NBA, with 2.71 per contest over 779 career games.

Robertson twice led the league in steals. In 1985–86 he averaged a league-leading 3.67 steals per game, a major factor in his earning the Defensive Player of the Year honor and being selected second-team All-NBA, one of only five players in Spurs' history to have been selected first, second or third-team All-NBA. He was a four-time All-Star. Only George Gervin, David Robinson and Tim Duncan have represented the Spurs in more All-Star Games

Sure he played the passing lanes a lot, but to say that, you're diminishing his superior skills as an on-the-ball defender. He was as accomplished of an on-ball defender as Bowen. Granted he didn't have Bowen's length, but he had excellent footwork, swift hands and quickness. He and Darrell Walker, were the only players I've ever seen that harrassed opposing point guards from foul line-to-foul line. To say he was simply a steals artist truly diminishes what a versatile, all-around player he was.

Robertson is one of only four NBA players to record a quadruple-double (double digits in four statistical categories in a single game) when he registered 20 points, 11 rebounds, 10 assists and 10 steals whilst playing for the Spurs against the Phoenix Suns. He also was a member of 1984 U.S. Olympic gold-medal team. Had he not run afoul of the legal system and got himself traded away, his number would have been hanging in the AT&T rafters. Gotta give him his props.

[BillMc]

Right there, I've got to stop you. Alvin Robertson was one of the best players in Spurs history.

In 1986, Robertson became the inaugural winner of the NBA Most Improved Player Award. This also marked the first of four National Basketball Association All-Star Game appearances for the guard (the others coming in 1987, 1988, and 1991). He also won the NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award in 1986, and led the league in steals in 1986, 1987 and 1991. Robertson still holds the top career steals-per-game average in the NBA, with 2.71 per contest over 779 career games.

Robertson twice led the league in steals. In 1985–86 he averaged a league-leading 3.67 steals per game, a major factor in his earning the Defensive Player of the Year honor and being selected second-team All-NBA, one of only five players in Spurs' history to have been selected first, second or third-team All-NBA. He was a four-time All-Star. Only George Gervin, David Robinson and Tim Duncan have represented the Spurs in more All-Star Games

Sure he played the passing lanes a lot, but to say that, you're diminishing his superior skills as an on-the-ball defender. He was as accomplished of an on-ball defender as Bowen. Granted he didn't have Bowen's length, but he had excellent footwork, swift hands and quickness. He and Darrell Walker, were the only players I've ever seen that harrassed opposing point guards from foul line-to-foul line. To say he was simply a steals artist truly diminishes what a versatile, all-around player he was.

Robertson is one of only four NBA players to record a quadruple-double (double digits in four statistical categories in a single game) when he registered 20 points, 11 rebounds, 10 assists and 10 steals whilst playing for the Spurs against the Phoenix Suns. He also was a member of 1984 U.S. Olympic gold-medal team. Had he not run afoul of the legal system and got himself traded away, his number would have been hanging in the AT&T rafters. Gotta give him his props.

Yeah, Robertson was fantastic. Good points.

And thanks for posting this. An interesting analysis of the position.:toast

So here's a question. Who was the Spurs THIRD BEST big man/post player??? The top two are easy, but who is third?

[EricB]

Robertson is a black eye on the franchise.

[Ocotillo]

Yeah, Robertson was fantastic. Good points.

And thanks for posting this. An interesting analysis of the position.:toast

So here's a question. Who was the Spurs THIRD BEST big man/post player??? The top two are easy, but who is third?

Either A-Train or Terry Cummings. Gilmore was one of the better centers and Cummings was a stud power forward.

Cummings came to San Antonio in the Robertson trade btw.

[BillMc]

Cummings came to San Antonio in the Robertson trade btw.

I didn't remember that. Good point. I'd say Cummings was a distant #3...

[fyatuk]

I didn't remember that. Good point. I'd say Cummings was a distant #3...

I was going to point that out. That was the year I started watching the Spurs.

[duncan228]

Nice read. Thanks.

[SenorSpur]

Yes indeed. A very good read.

[Spursmania]

:toast Nice...

[whottt]

I pretty much agree with all of your evaluations talentwise, however I considered DA to be the PG more or less when he was here, not really a swing. He avged about 6 assists per game that season IIRC.

I think Alvin Robertson was also easily one of the best players in team history. Top 10 easily.

[meestahmeestah]

Had he not run afoul of the legal system and got himself traded away, his number would have been hanging in the AT&T rafters. Gotta give him his props.

Agree with you and your analysis, BUT...

if his number would have been hanging in the rafters, would they have pulled it down for a lanky Wake Forest grad from the Virgin Islands? ;)

[slayermin]

Right there, I've got to stop you. Alvin Robertson was one of the best players in Spurs history.

In 1986, Robertson became the inaugural winner of the NBA Most Improved Player Award. This also marked the first of four National Basketball Association All-Star Game appearances for the guard (the others coming in 1987, 1988, and 1991). He also won the NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award in 1986, and led the league in steals in 1986, 1987 and 1991. Robertson still holds the top career steals-per-game average in the NBA, with 2.71 per contest over 779 career games.

Robertson twice led the league in steals. In 1985–86 he averaged a league-leading 3.67 steals per game, a major factor in his earning the Defensive Player of the Year honor and being selected second-team All-NBA, one of only five players in Spurs' history to have been selected first, second or third-team All-NBA. He was a four-time All-Star. Only George Gervin, David Robinson and Tim Duncan have represented the Spurs in more All-Star Games

Sure he played the passing lanes a lot, but to say that, you're diminishing his superior skills as an on-the-ball defender. He was as accomplished of an on-ball defender as Bowen. Granted he didn't have Bowen's length, but he had excellent footwork, swift hands and quickness. He and Darrell Walker, were the only players I've ever seen that harrassed opposing point guards from foul line-to-foul line. To say he was simply a steals artist truly diminishes what a versatile, all-around player he was.

Robertson is one of only four NBA players to record a quadruple-double (double digits in four statistical categories in a single game) when he registered 20 points, 11 rebounds, 10 assists and 10 steals whilst playing for the Spurs against the Phoenix Suns. He also was a member of 1984 U.S. Olympic gold-medal team. Had he not run afoul of the legal system and got himself traded away, his number would have been hanging in the AT&T rafters. Gotta give him his props.

One of the main reasons I became a Spurs fan.

[exstatic]

Robertson is a black eye on the franchise.

Some players don't do so well when they lose the structure of the Spurs system. Most fans don't hold that against them if they flew right, more or less when they were here. Stephen Jackson is one of the most beloved Spurs in history, and he had the Malice in the Palace and that whole firing a gun in the parking lot thing. He came REAL close to prison for the gun thing, since he was still on probation for the MatP.

I guess I always think of Alvin as someone who has problems, and not as a bad person. It always amazes me how people reprise their parents roles in their own lives later on. You don't just become a woman beater in a vacuum. I hope Alvin does eventually straighten out in a meaningful way.

[bigfan]

Alvin was a great player driven psycho by some broad.

[exstatic]

Alvin was a great player driven psycho by some broad.

Not quite that simple. As I said, you don't become a woman beater in a vacuum. You have to be taught.

He was an awesome player though. If he were a baseball player, he'd be called a five tool player. He wasn't the best at anything, except maybe steals, but he did LOTS of things very well.

[SenorSpur]

Not quite that simple. As I said, you don't become a woman beater in a vacuum. You have to be taught.

He was an awesome player though. If he were a baseball player, he'd be called a five tool player. He wasn't the best at anything, except maybe steals, but he did LOTS of things very well.

A bit of trivia on Alvin Robertson, his son, Tyrell Johnson, was 2008 second round draft choice for the Minnesota Vikings. He is currently a backup safety.

[v2freak]

What? No love for Ron Mercer?

[barbacoataco]

Larry Kenon was a great player. This board had some great threads last offseason rating the Spurs alltime players by position. When you get that many people voting it usually comes out about right.

[ambchang]

Don't get me wrong guys, I thought Robertson was a great, but I never loved him much as a Spurs player, and I found that his stats was more than his game.

Easily one of the top 10 Spurs, just that I was glad he was traded for Cummings.

[TDMVPDPOY]

no andrew gaze?

LMAO

[poeticism707]

Man! Alvin Roberson would be a nice defensive addition.

I wonder how he'd fare on Kobe/Lebron...

[jag]

Great write up.

Btw...somewhere, Dale Ellis feels left out. That man could light it up.

[ambchang]

Thanks. I sorta lumped Dale Ellis with Chuck Person together, both tall, SF shooters who joined the Spurs way after their primes.

[Strange Botwin]

uh...Lloyd Daniels...Walter Berry...HELLO?!?

[cherylsteele]

Uh.....no Manu?

alvin was a a solid player. like Exstatic said, a jack of all trades but an excellent defender. MJ once said Alvin was the best defender to play against him.

You could add:
Devin Brown
Antonio Daniels
Steve Smith
Dominique Wilkins
Monty Williams

[jag]

Uh.....no Manu?

alvin was a a solid player. like Exstatic said, a jack of all trades but an excellent defender. MJ once said Alvin was the best defender to play against him.

You could add:
Devin Brown
Antonio Daniels
Steve Smith
Dominique Wilkins
Monty Williams

Manu is in the opening post...


He's pretty much only adding players that kind of had an "era" with the Spurs. There are definitely a lot of players that have come and gone, but there's no need to even talk about Shane Heal's time with the Spurs.

[cherylsteele]

I did not notice Manu in the original post....my bad.

Most of those players I mentioned were a pretty big part of the Spurs for a time, except for maybe 'Nique and Monty though.

[Solid D]

When he played, Alvin Robertson wasn't really a swingman. At least, not in the classic sense of swinging between the 2 and 3 positions. He was a combo guard at 6'3", who played some PG but was not very effective in that role.

If you want to say "swingman" means generally swinging between 2 positions, then you would need to talk about players like Mike Mitchell who was a 3/4. Paul Pressey played 3 positions well on offense ("point forward") and he was a great defender.

In the classic sense, Alvin wasn't one.

[GoSpurs99]

Larry Kenon.

Cannot ever leave out Special K when talking about the best wings. His D was unreal. I believe he is now tied for most steals in a game with 11. Matched by Kendall Gill in 1999.

Most steals in a NBA game

Regular season
11
Larry Kenon, SAS vs. KCK 26Dec76
Kendall Gill, NJN vs MIA 3Apr99
10
Jerry West, LAL vs. SEA 7Dec73
Larry Steele, POR vs. LAL 16Nov74
Fred Brown, SEA vs. PHI 3Dec76
Gus Williams, SEA vs. NJN 22Feb78
Eddie Jordan, NJN vs. PHI 23Mar79
Johnny Moore, SAS vs. IND 6Mar85
Lafayette Lever, DEN vs. IND 9Mar85
Clyde Drexler, POR vs. MIL 10Jan86
Alvin Robertson, SAS vs. PHX 18Feb86
Alvin Robertson, SAS vs. LAC 22Nov86
Ron Harper, CLE vs. PHI 10Mar87
Michael Jordan, CHI vs. NJN 29Jan88
Alvin Robertson, SAS vs. HOU 11Jan89
Alvin Robertson, MIL vs. UTA 19Nov90
Kevin Johnson, PHX vs. WAS 9Dec93
Clyde Drexler, HOU vs. SAC 1Nov96
Mookie Blaylock, ATL vs. PHI 14Apr98

Check out Alvin Robertson's name come up so many times!!

Also:

Mike Mitchell was one of the greatest shooters who ever played.

I grew up watching both, just incredible clutch shooters!!!

[Solid D]

Great write up.

Btw...somewhere, Dale Ellis feels left out. That man could light it up.


Thanks. I sorta lumped Dale Ellis with Chuck Person together, both tall, SF shooters who joined the Spurs way after their primes.

I wouldn't say Dale Ellis joined the Spurs way after his prime. His scoring role was different with the Spurs, but in his 2 seasons in San Antonio, he was either the second leading scorer (behind David Robinson) or third leading scorer (behind Robinson and Elliott). Ellis went on to play another 6 or 7 years after he left SA.

[Solid D]

Larry Kenon.

Cannot ever leave out Special K when talking about the best wings. His D was unreal. I believe he is now tied for most steals in a game with 11. Matched by Kendall Gill in 1999.

Most steals in a NBA game

Regular season
11
Larry Kenon, SAS vs. KCK 26Dec76
Kendall Gill, NJN vs MIA 3Apr99
10
Jerry West, LAL vs. SEA 7Dec73
Larry Steele, POR vs. LAL 16Nov74
Fred Brown, SEA vs. PHI 3Dec76
Gus Williams, SEA vs. NJN 22Feb78
Eddie Jordan, NJN vs. PHI 23Mar79
Johnny Moore, SAS vs. IND 6Mar85
Lafayette Lever, DEN vs. IND 9Mar85
Clyde Drexler, POR vs. MIL 10Jan86
Alvin Robertson, SAS vs. PHX 18Feb86
Alvin Robertson, SAS vs. LAC 22Nov86
Ron Harper, CLE vs. PHI 10Mar87
Michael Jordan, CHI vs. NJN 29Jan88
Alvin Robertson, SAS vs. HOU 11Jan89
Alvin Robertson, MIL vs. UTA 19Nov90
Kevin Johnson, PHX vs. WAS 9Dec93
Clyde Drexler, HOU vs. SAC 1Nov96
Mookie Blaylock, ATL vs. PHI 14Apr98

Check out Alvin Robertson's name come up so many times!!

Also:

Mike Mitchell was one of the greatest shooters who ever played.

I grew up watching both, just incredible clutch shooters!!!

Yes this is true, but the topic is "Spurs swingmen since George Gervin". Kenon left the Spurs well before George was traded.

[cherylsteele]

When he played, Alvin Robertson wasn't really a swingman. At least, not in the classic sense of swinging between the 2 and 3 positions. He was a combo guard at 6'3", who played some PG but was not very effective in that role.

If you want to say "swingman" means generally swinging between 2 positions, then you would need to talk about players like Mike Mitchell who was a 3/4. Paul Pressey played 3 positions well on offense ("point forward") and he was a great defender.

In the classic sense, Alvin wasn't one.
Maybe you're right, but when I think of swingmen I think of perimeter players excluding the PG position. Alvin did sghow the ability to guard pretty much any perimeter player, which makes him a swingman IMHO.

Mitch was here pretty much the same time Ice was here, although he was here after Ice was traded for David Greenwood. Mitch was the centerpiece for those mid-late 80's teams.

[Hornets1]

Robertson was a great player and defender. For a shooting guard to go 105 games in a row w/ a steal is just a microcosm of his talent and durability

[Ocotillo]

Anyone remember this little piece of Spurs lore? They were in Montana playing a pre-season game because teammate Larry Kristowiak was from Montana.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=861&dat=19871104&id=bigPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=b4UDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3286,832128

[GoSpurs99]

Yes this is true, but the topic is "Spurs swingmen since George Gervin". Kenon left the Spurs well before George was traded.

Doh! Thanks for correcting me mate!!

Still, it's always great to remember Special K and other "old school" players!

[Gervin44Silas13]

Great FREAKING Post.....ahhhhhh the Arena dayz!!!!!!!!
$5 upper level seats....food and beer was cheap
...and the giveaways at the door weren't cheap ass thunderstix!

Shame for Alvin though... too bad we couldn't build him with Robinson around him defensive wise, he did have I think 2 pretty good years with the Bucks after he got traded.