This, according to ESPN's Chris Broussard

[SenorSpur]

He seems the think the Spurs are the current "leader in the clubhouse" in the Rasheed sweepstakes. I guess we'll soon find out.

http://espn.go.com/

[EricB]

They were in the same position last year for Corey Maggette also.

[Fdawg07]

Come on Sheed!!!! Do the right thing. Dont pull a Maggette.

[nadroj117]

Bucher seems to believe that Celts are the leaders, and the the constant persuaing of KG is the reason why... i'm praying we get him... can you imagine Tony Manu RJ Timmy Sheed

[EricB]

If I was abetting man I would say he lands in Boston.

[exstatic]

They were in the same position last year for Corey Maggette also.

:lol
Well, considering the two teams with cap room this summer are Detroit and Portland, and they've both seen his act, I'd say it looks like it's coming down to MLEs, and I like our chances. We only lost Maggette because GS suddenly had cap room because B-Diddy bolted.

[K-State Spur]

They were in the same position last year for Corey Maggette also.

almost everybody on this board knew that our hope for maggette was tied to him not getting any offers bigger than the MLE. we believed that we had a good shot if all the offers were roughly equal. but that was a small possibility for him in last year's market.

this year, it's a high probability that sheed doesn't get any offers that are more than what the Spurs will put out there for him. he'll get pretty much the same contract offer from every team, it will just come down to personal preference.

[DPG21920]

:lol
Well, considering the two teams with cap room this summer are Detroit and Portland, and they've both seen his act, I'd say it looks like it's coming down to MLEs, and I like our chances. We only lost Maggette because GS suddenly had cap room because B-Diddy bolted.

Exactly. This is clearly not the same situation. However, I am not holding my breath. I do not know what it would take all things being equal to get Sheed. Perhaps a few teams (Cavs, Magic) decide to go after other players (Charlie V...) and then it will come down to wether or not the Spurs and the Celtics want to offer the full MLE and for how many years.

[lefty]

Whatever happens, Sheed will have this to say about Spurs and Celtics:


" Both teams played hard "

[EricB]

:lol
Well, considering the two teams with cap room this summer are Detroit and Portland, and they've both seen his act, I'd say it looks like it's coming down to MLEs, and I like our chances. We only lost Maggette because GS suddenly had cap room because B-Diddy bolted.

I'd like to have the same optimisim but I think Boston is gonna swipe it away.

[TheProfessor]

Same old off-season story. Believe it when I see it.

[Spursfan092120]

As of 12:01, Varejao declined his option and became a FA...hmm...

[mytespurs]

So do we call Sheed the MLE Cinderalla of the NBA free agency ball? :lol

[DPG21920]

As of 12:01, Varejao declined his option and became a FA...hmm...

This was fully expected.

[peskypesky]

i fail to see why anyone thinks Sheed would be a good fit for the Spurs. talented, yes. but he just does not have the personality of a Spur. not in my eyes.

[AFBlue]

Won't find out anything tonight....Bucher says Sheed isn't taking midnight calls, which means he's not making midnight deals.

[Spursfan092120]

Whatever happens, Sheed will have this to say about Spurs and Celtics:


" Both teams played hard "
BrOH-KHxXg0

[Spursfan092120]

Won't find out anything tonight....Bucher says Sheed isn't taking midnight calls, which means he's not making midnight deals.
Ah..Bucher said Sheed won't stay AWAKE for midnight calls..that doesn't mean he won't take any. GET ON THE PHONE, POP!!

[SenorSpur]

So do we call Sheed the MLE Cinderalla of the NBA free agency ball? :lol

No, because we'd never find glass slippers big enough to fit his big ass feet.

[exstatic]

If I was abetting man I would say he lands in Boston.

I might have agreed with you, pre RJ trade, but SA is a LOT younger team than Boston at this point. We offloaded 37,37, and 34, and brought aboard 29. ALL of Boston's principal players are on the wrong side of 30, but SA has Parker and RJ younger than 30.

[EricB]

Ah..Bucher said Sheed won't stay AWAKE for midnight calls..that doesn't mean he won't take any. GET ON THE PHONE, POP!!

Shit, pop is probobly in bed right now also.

[Das Texan]

sheed or bust.

[EricB]

I might have agreed with you, pre RJ trade, but SA is a LOT younger team than Boston at this point. We offloaded 37,37, and 34, and brought aboard 29. ALL of Boston's principal players are on the wrong side of 30, but SA has Parker and RJ younger than 30.

While true, KG badgering him about coming to Boston makes things different.

It would be nice if Duncan was doing the same.

He might be, who knows.

[jdaveah]

Ah..Bucher said Sheed won't stay AWAKE for midnight calls..that doesn't mean he won't take any. GET ON THE PHONE, POP!!


Not staying up past midnight sounds like a Spurs personality to me...

[EricB]

sheed or bust.

I wouldn't go that far.

If you can't get him go for Dyess, if you can't get him go for ZaZa.

[SenorSpur]

Regarding Sheed, if it comes down to the tandem of Ainge/Rivers versus RC/Pop, I'll take RC/Pop everytime. I really don't know how Boston can sell Rasheed on Beantown. The Celtics are in decline and have an uphill against the likes of Orlando & Cleveland.

After last week, it's clear the Spurs have vaulted themselves back atop the Western Conference. Their future is much brighter than the Celtics.

[Ditty]

I wouldn't go that far.

If you can't get him go for Dyess, if you can't get him go for ZaZa.

yah but it depends who sheed goes to i rather hi resign with pistons then if he dosent come with the spurs

[Mugen]

BrOH-KHxXg0

haha thats why ill like sheed no matter where he goes.

a little more though if its for the silver and black.

[EricB]

yah but it depends who sheed goes to i rather hi resign with pistons then if he dosent come with the spurs

Neither Dyess nor Sheed are going back to Detroit.

[Kindergarten Cop]

I know that we've heard this factor with FAs in the past, but San Antonio and Orlando can actually net Wallace more money than Boston can due to the lack of a state income tax.

[EricB]

I know that we've heard this factor with FAs in the past, but San Antonio and Orlando can actually net Wallace more money than Boston can due to the lack of a state income tax.

Cost of living is also way cheaper in SA than Boston.

Apartment or house and just the cost of day to day things.

[loveforthegame]

Not to get too off topic but some would like to see David Lee here. His agent will reportedly have him sign an offer sheet with the Thunder or Grizzlies the Knicks won't be willing to match.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/60223/20090630/source_lee_leaving_for_grizzlies_or_thunder/

[Spursmania]

Shit, pop is probobly in bed right now also.

:pop:Pop is either:cell or:drunk...

[smrattler]

They were in the same position last year for Corey Maggette also.

+1


If I was abetting man I would say he lands in Boston.

+1

I should note that I also hate it when people quote people and then do a +1.

[kbrury]

Texas is the place to be in today's America.

[SenorSpur]

haha thats why ill like sheed no matter where he goes.

a little more though if its for the silver and black.

If there is a such thing as an intelligent knucklehead - Sheed is that.

[EricB]

+1



+1

I should note that I also hate it when people quote people and then do a +1.

:lol

[Spursfan092120]

Bill Simmons Twitter from 2 minutes ago.
sportsguy33 (http://twitter.com/sportsguy33)Ideal new homes: CharlieV (Cle); Gortat (Hou); Millsap (Zombies); Childress (Bos); Iverson (Cha); Hedo (Por); Birdman (Dal); Sheed (pasture)

[Spursmania]

+1



+1

I should note that I also hate it when people quote people and then do a +1.

+1:lol

[xtremesteven33]

haha he thinks Sheed will retire....

[4RINGS]

If I was abetting man I would say he lands in Boston.

ESPN seems to think Sheed will sign with the Celtics. We may need to think of Plan B sooner than later.

[EricB]

Bill Simmons Twitter from 2 minutes ago.
sportsguy33 (http://twitter.com/sportsguy33)Ideal new homes: CharlieV (Cle); Gortat (Hou); Millsap (Zombies); Childress (Bos); Iverson (Cha); Hedo (Por); Birdman (Dal); Sheed (pasture)

Portland?!?!

Iverson in Charlotte with Brown would be a disaster.

Birdman in Dallas? Yikes, that would NOT be good....

[Spursfan092120]

Texas does have more pastures than Boston. :D

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Bill Simmons Twitter from 2 minutes ago.
sportsguy33 (http://twitter.com/sportsguy33)Ideal new homes: CharlieV (Cle); Gortat (Hou); Millsap (Zombies); Childress (Bos); Iverson (Cha); Hedo (Por); Birdman (Dal); Sheed (pasture)


When did Simmons start reporting breaking free agent news? I'm not sure how credible he is.

[Spursfan092120]

Portland?!?!

Iverson in Charlotte with Brown would be a disaster.

Birdman in Dallas? Yikes, that would NOT be good....
Yeah..Hedo to Portland is very likely. Charlotte is supposed to go hard after Iverson...Birdman to Dallas is the only one I hadn't heard of. That would be a little scary, but they lose some offense there.

[EricB]

ESPN seems to think Sheed will sign with the Celtics. We may need to think of Plan B sooner than later.

Broussard who works for ESPN says the Spurs are the leaders.

No one has a clue who leads who right now.

[Spursfan092120]

When did Simmons start reporting breaking free agent news? I'm not sure how credible he is.
Yeah..I know..just noticed it on Twitter..thought I'd post it...problem is he HATES Rasheed.

[kbrury]

Those are just what he thinks are the Ideal places for them.

[loveforthegame]

Would hate to see Anderson in Dallas.

[Kindergarten Cop]

ESPN seems to think Sheed will sign with the Celtics. We may need to think of Plan B sooner than later.

Actually, members of ESPN are torn - with Bucher believing he will sign with Boston and Brousard stating that the Spurs are the likely destination. I'm guessing that there are members of their staff reporting that Cleveland is the frontrunner while others will say Orlando or Dallas. I'm guessing that nothing has been leaked yet and all of them are just guessing. If not, I certainly hope it's Brousard that has the reliable sources. :toast

[AFBlue]

Guarantee the Spurs have a Plan B...in fact, I'd be willing to bet their "Plan A" included a tier of available free agents, not just one FA in particular. Basically, Plan A is Sheed or Dice. Plan B will develop if Plan A fails.

[exstatic]

While true, KG badgering him about coming to Boston makes things different.

It would be nice if Duncan was doing the same.

He might be, who knows.

Tim did it for Finley, and allegedly, he and 'Sheed get along well.

[Spursfan092120]

Guarantee the Spurs have a Plan B...in fact, I'd be willing to bet their "Plan A" included a tier of available free agents. Basically, Plan A is Sheed or Dice. Plan B will develop if Plan A fails.
Yeah...earlier tonight on SA local news, they were discussing that the Spurs top 2 FAs were Sheed and Dyess.

[EricB]

Guarantee the Spurs have a Plan B...in fact, I'd be willing to bet their "Plan A" included a tier of available free agents, not just one FA in particular. Basically, Plan A is Sheed or Dice. Plan B will develop if Plan A fails.

Yeah agreed.

Sheed, then dice, then guys like Pachulia, Gortat, or whoever else.

[Spursfan092120]

Yeah agreed.

Sheed, then dice, then guys like Pachulia, Gortat, or whoever else.
Just somebody better than Bonner, Obie, or Kurt...

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Yeah..I know..just noticed it on Twitter..thought I'd post it.


No I'd post it as well it's worth knowing, it just seems funny he already knows where all but a few marquee free agents are going.

[EricB]

Tim did it for Finley, and allegedly, he and 'Sheed get along well.


Yeah it wouldn't shock me if he did it.

Its funny you never hear that stuff till AFTER the FA signs with the Spurs, but you always hear other players and teams doing that. Shameless self promotion...

[Spursfan092120]

Bucher also says Boston is the best fit for Rasheed...bullshit...if he wants to sit on the bench maybe..anyone know if Bucher is a Boston homer?

[4RINGS]

Broussard who works for ESPN says the Spurs are the leaders.

No one has a clue who leads who right now.

I just heard Bucher say the Celtics will land Sheed on ESPN News, and the Lakers may be another option for him according to Bucher.

[DPG21920]

Sheed is by far the best option imo. Is it Sheed then everyone else. Dice is good, but he would be a huge downgrade compared to Sheed imo.

[EricB]

I just heard Bucher say the Celtics will land Sheed on ESPN News, and the Lakers may be another option for him according to Bucher.


Broussard said San Antonio was the likely destination.

So neither one is more right than the other.

[Spursfan092120]

I just heard Bucher say the Celtics will land Sheed on ESPN News, and the Lakers may be another option for him according to Bucher.
yeah..and at the same time, Broussard was saying SA was in the lead...who knows?...nobody but Sheed.

[4RINGS]

Bucher also says Boston is the best fit for Rasheed...bullshit...if he wants to sit on the bench maybe..anyone know if Bucher is a Boston homer?

I hope Bucher is full of BS on this one.

[Spursfan092120]

Broussard said San Antonio was the likely destination.

So neither one is more right than the other.
exactly.

[Sec24Row7]

what is the direct link to broussard?

[Spursmania]

I just heard Bucher say the Celtics will land Sheed on ESPN News, and the Lakers may be another option for him according to Bucher.


Shit, Bucher been leaning towards Boston. Who to believe Bucher or Broussard?

[Spursfan092120]

I hope Bucher is full of BS on this one.
It's obvious...if he went to Boston, he'd be a bench player..he's not gonna start over Garnett, and he's not a Center. In SA, he'd start, and he already said he wanted to go to warmer weather. Boston isn't much warmer than Detroit.

[Ice009]

Guarantee the Spurs have a Plan B...in fact, I'd be willing to bet their "Plan A" included a tier of available free agents, not just one FA in particular. Basically, Plan A is Sheed or Dice. Plan B will develop if Plan A fails.

How long are the Spurs going to wait though to go onto their next plan?

[exstatic]

Those are just what he thinks are the Ideal places for them.

+1 (sorry, smrattler :lol)

[kbrury]

Right now I think Bucher is talking out of his ass, the Lakers are interested?

[DPG21920]

The Lakers? Bynum + Pau + Odom?? Why would Sheed go there unless the Lakers are letting Odom go. Which would be sweet.

[Spursfan092120]

Shit, Bucher been leaning towards Boston. Who to believe Bucher or Broussard?
honestly, when it comes to NBA, Broussard's been right more often than Bucher...I never trust Bucher...he's like Hollinger.

[ploto]

If Rasheed stalls teams, then Plans C, D, and E may be gone.

[4RINGS]

Do you think Sheed will make up his mind soon??? Or will he string everyone along for a few weeks... that would suck!!!

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Bucher also says Boston is the best fit for Rasheed...bullshit...if he wants to sit on the bench maybe..anyone know if Bucher is a Boston homer?


Bucher is a BS homer.

[Spursfan092120]

Right now I think Bucher is talking out of his ass, the Lakers are interested?
Yeah..lol..Lakers are gonna get Amare, Rasheed, and resign Odom and Ariza..lol

[Mr. Body]

Why can't they play Garnett and Sheed together on the starting line?

[Spursfan092120]

Bucher is a BS homer.
true..that's an obvious one.

[Spursfan092120]

We should just change the title of this thread to "FA thread"

[smrattler]

This is normally the time I would say:

"If we are thinking Spurs must be chasing Sheed right now, they are probably chasing someone we never would have thought about. Or, more likely, not chasing anyone."

But after that draft, I think they are thinking more INSIDE the box for a change.

And after the way the last few off-seasons have gone, it's a welcomed change for me.

[EricB]

Why can't they play Garnett and Sheed together on the starting line?

Kendrick Perkins?

[exstatic]

How long are the Spurs going to wait though to go onto their next plan?

They don't tend to wait long. In 2003 when Jack said "no", I think they had that Hedo/Mercer trade up and running in a matter of a couple of days.

[Ace9]

Please come to San Antonio, Sheed.

[mytespurs]

This thread is growing by leaps & bounds.

So getting Sheed is that important? He puts the Spurs over the top or closer to competing with the Lakers?

[Mr. Body]

Kendrick Perkins?

Move him to the bench. Or trade him - they've been shopping him along with Allen.

[EmantheSpursFan]

Lets have faith in our front office guys I'm sure if Plan A doesnt happen there is going to be a plan B, C and possibly D
:meeting:

[Ice009]

If Rasheed stalls teams, then Plans C, D, and E may be gone.

That's why I asked that question a few posts up.

I love Rasheed and want him on the Spurs, but the Spurs can't screw around here.

Pop should be on the phone with him now and if he gets to meet him and have a chat, explain to him that Corey Maggette strung us along last off season and that the Spurs are committed to winning a Championship so we can't wait around too long.

Would that be pushing it asking Rasheed for an answer?

[Spursfan092120]

This thread is growing by leaps & bounds.

So getting Sheed is that important? He puts the Spurs over the top or closer to competing with the Lakers?
yes...exactly...Sheed on our frontline puts us even with LA, IMO. Lineup would be

Tony
Manu
RJ
Sheed
Duncan...

Not sure how Lakers can compete with that.

[Ace9]

Yes, trade Perkins to us...lol.

[4RINGS]

Why can't they play Garnett and Sheed together on the starting line?

I was thinking the same thing... they would sit Perkins.

[EricB]

That's why I asked that question a few posts up.

I love Rasheed and want him on the Spurs, but the Spurs can't screw around here.

Pop should be on the phone with him now and if he gets to meet him and have a chat explain to him that Corey Magette strung us along last off season and the Spurs are committed to winning a Championship and we can't wait around too long and let all the other options go.

Would that be pushing it asking Rasheed for an answer?

Its 45 minutes in.

Pushing for an answer at 11:45 at night his time would be rediculous.

[Spursfan092120]

That's why I asked that question a few posts up.

I love Rasheed and want him on the Spurs, but the Spurs can't screw around here.

Pop should be on the phone with him now and if he gets to meet him and have a chat explain to him that Corey Magette strung us along last off season and the Spurs are committed to winning a Championship and we can't wait around too long and let all the other options go.

Would that be pushing it asking Rasheed for an answer?
Probably not. Pop and Rasheed have serious man love for each other. Sheed already told Detroit last year that he wanted to be traded to San Antonio. If he wanted to play in Boston, he would have said "Trade me to Boston," not "Trade me to San Antonio."

[Cant_Be_Faded]

You know another ring is still a very small possibility if we're this dependent on rasheed freaking wallace to round out our roster.

[Spursmania]

yes...exactly...Sheed on our frontline puts us even with LA, IMO. Lineup would be

Tony
Manu
RJ
Sheed
Duncan...

Not sure how Lakers can compete with that.

Man, that would be such a sweet line-up and damn scary.:wow

[Spursfan092120]

Is Varejao an option now that he declined his option?

[Ace9]

Wait is tonight the night? I though at Wednesday, Midnight FA started?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I just heard Bucher say the Celtics will land Sheed on ESPN News, and the Lakers may be another option for him according to Bucher.

Bucher is a redhead. Of course he's going to pine for 'Sheed to go to the land of the leprechauns...

[EricB]

Wait is tonight the night? I though at Wednesday, Midnight FA started?

Its midnight eastern time right now.

[AFBlue]

I wouldn't worry about hanging on every word from different analysts. What we know is that Sheed is drawing interest from all the title contenders and that no one contender has greater financial leverage than the other.

You might end up disappointed if you have the Sheed or bust mentality though. There are a few quality free agents out there and the Spurs have already expressed a willingness to spend up to their full MLE...they'll get someone and improve the team.

[Spursfan092120]

Wait is tonight the night? I though at Wednesday, Midnight FA started?
It is Wednesday, midnight....if it was tomorrow, it'd be Thursday midnight..lol

[mosdef17]

Everyone is acting so negative towards what happened with Corey Maggette last season. I think Maggette pulling out was a blessing in disguise if you as me. We would not have traded for Richard Jefferson this offseason and Maggette would not have won us a title with all the injuries we had last year. All that would have happened is our assists as a team would be last in the league. I'm happy he pulled out because now our team is better then it would have been with him on it.

Whether Rasheed "pulls out" or not, we will have to look at the bright side, maybe something in the future will be better because of this?

[exstatic]

Yes, trade Perkins to us...lol.
Perkins is a stupid punk poser who thinks he's an All Star when he's pretty much just a serviceable big man in this league.

8P/8r ain't gettin' you into the HOF, Kendrick.

[Ace9]

It is Wednesday, midnight....if it was tomorrow, it'd be Thursday midnight..lol

Today is Tuesday...I'm confused.

[vander]

Wait is tonight the night? I though at Wednesday, Midnight FA started?

the midnight hour is in the AM

[smrattler]

Ok, what are we doing, staying up all night till ESPNN breaks Spurs news tonight?

Pop's in bed, Tim crashed on the beach... not happening tonight.

Yet I can't turn it off. :(

[Spursmania]

I wouldn't worry about hanging on every word from different analysts. What we know is that Sheed is drawing interest from all the title contenders and that no one contender has greater financial leverage than the other.

You might end up disappointed if you have the Sheed or bust mentality though. There are a few quality free agents out there and the Spurs have already expressed a willingness to spend up to their full MLE...they'll get someone and improve the team.

That's true, but damn it would be exciting to get Sheed.:danceclub

[Mugen]

if sheed decides to go to boston, then i am wrong and he probably wasn't smart enough to be a spur anyways.

[EricB]

Today is Tuesday...I'm confused.

Eastern time its wednesday.

Midnight eastern time.

God.

[mytespurs]

yes...exactly...Sheed on our frontline puts us even with LA, IMO. Lineup would be

Tony
Manu
RJ
Sheed
Duncan...

Not sure how Lakers can compete with that.

It seems to me the key will be IF both Manu and Duncan come back healthy. Until we know that for sure, Lakers are still the favorites even if Sheed joins the Spurs.

[Ice009]

Its 45 minutes in.

Pushing for an answer at 11:45 at night his time would be rediculous.

OK, I didn't mean right now man. Can we wait the full 8 days with out a verbal agreement?

[exstatic]

Its midnight eastern time right now.

Yes it is.

[4RINGS]

Who has more CASH to throw at Sheed? Boston or SA??? Its going to come down to $$$$

[Ace9]

Ok, what are we doing, staying up all night till ESPNN breaks Spurs news tonight?

Pop's in bed, Tim crashed on the beach... not happening tonight.

Yet I can't turn it off. :(

Haha, me too. I need to go though...later guys. High hopes for Wallace! :toast

[EricB]

Yes, but it isn't 1 July anywhere in the US, yet. :lol

grr.... :lol

[EricB]

Who has more CASH to throw at Sheed? Boston or SA??? Its going to come down to $$$$

Both can only offer the MLE.

Its gonna come down to his preference.

[exstatic]

grr.... :lol

Check my quick edit!!

[Spursfan092120]

Today is Tuesday...I'm confused.
Today is Tuesday in Texas....it's going by Eastern Standard time, my friend...in EST, it's 12:53 AM, which is Wednesday.

[kbrury]

Guam? jk:downspin:

[EricB]

Check my quick edit!!

:lmao

[robert1886]

damn i been waiting on day for this.....almost lk Christmas! but i am not going to get anything tonight!

[Thompson]

Wait is tonight the night? I though at Wednesday, Midnight FA started?

Midnight is (technically) Wednesday.

[loveforthegame]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/60225/20090630/cavs_looking_for_big_wings_to_allow_lbj_to_play_po wer_forward/

Cavs looking for a big wing so James can move to the pf position.

[4RINGS]

Both can only offer the MLE.

Its gonna come down to his preference.


Then whoever he chooses to go with is who he believes has the best chance at winning the Championship.:lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2:

[Spursfan092120]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/60225/20090630/cavs_looking_for_big_wings_to_allow_lbj_to_play_po wer_forward/

Cavs looking for a big wing so James can move to the pf position.
hmm...so Simmons' "Childress to Cleveland" idea has some merit.

[DPG21920]

You know another ring is still a very small possibility if we're this dependent on rasheed freaking wallace to round out our roster.

This is the truth I do not think people are realizing. The Spurs have made some great moves, but they still need a significant piece or two to be able to compete with the Lakers and Orlando.

[EricB]

Lebron at powerforward?!

Huh!?

[completely deck]

Guam? jk:downspin:

It's about to be 3:00 PM in Guam right now :lol

[montgod]

Both can only offer the MLE.

Its gonna come down to his preference.

Technically, SA's MLE would be worth since there is no state tax.

[vander]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/60225/20090630/cavs_looking_for_big_wings_to_allow_lbj_to_play_po wer_forward/

Cavs looking for a big wing so James can move to the pf position.

Why would they want him at PF? defending other PF's is going to wear him out

[kbrury]

Technically, SA's MLE would be worth since there is no state tax.

Plus HEB commercials

[Spursmania]

Night guys, hope I wake up to good news.:toast

[EricB]

Night guys, hope I wake up to good news.:toast

Day 1?

SeriouslY?

[smrattler]

Plus HEB commercials


Yup, we don't push endorsement opportunities around here as much as we should. Somebody tweet that to RC.

[loveforthegame]

James would be such a tough cover for other pf's in the league. As strong as he is he could guard the competition but you gotta believe it would wear him down.

[timtonymanu]

It's about to be 3:00 PM in Guam right now :lol

yeah im from Guam and it's 3 pm July 1st.

[kbrury]

Didn't a teammate of Shaq run into him and get injured I forgot who?

[ploto]

You guys do know that players still have to pay state income tax for every game they play in all those other states. Sure there are all the home games in the state without the state income tax, but the benefit only applies to a little over half their salary.

[4RINGS]

James would be such a tough cover for other pf's in the league. As strong as he is he could guard the competition but you gotta believe it would wear him down.

The PF does not have to guard him on D, you can put someone else on him.

[rayray2k8]

So begins the "Rasheed Wallce watch".
Don't stay up too late trying to find out where sheed is going guys. :rolleyes

[Sec24Row7]

what is the broussard link?

[loveforthegame]

The PF does not have to guard him on D, you can put someone else on him.

It will still cause mismatches somewhere else then.

Anyway, off to bed now. While I don't expect news in the morning it would be nice to hear who the Spurs talked to.

[Spursfan092120]

God I hate Ric Bucher.

[Kindergarten Cop]

You guys do know that players still have to pay state income tax for every game they play in all those other states. Sure there are all the home games in the state without the state income tax, but the benefit only applies to a little over half their salary.

Are you sure about this? I'm not saying that you are lying but it makes very little sense. It would be equivalent to a business person that travels a lot for his job being forced to pay state income tax to every state he travels to. The Spurs would be his employer and they are located in San Antonio, so Texas should be the only state that he would be forced to pay state income tax (which there is none). Could someone else please provide clarification on this. Thanks in advance.

[lurker23]

Are you sure about this? I'm not saying that you are lying but it makes very little sense. It would be equivalent to a business person that travels a lot for his job being forced to pay state income tax to every state he travels to. The Spurs would be his employer and they are located in San Antonio, so Texas should be the only state that he would be forced to pay state income tax (which there is none). Could someone else please provide clarification on this. Thanks in advance.

Here's one of the articles I found on it:

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/12/sports/sp-jock-tax12

[lefty]

Great, like we needed 2 threads about Sheed


Twice the stress :lol

[xtremesteven33]

**crossing fingers**

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

God I hate Ric Bucher.

So do most people. The people that like Ruc Bucher are those annoying fans that jizz themselves over the players ESPN hypes up a lot and the fans that hear a trade rumor on ESPN and think it means that trade is a sure thing.

[Kindergarten Cop]

You guys do know that players still have to pay state income tax for every game they play in all those other states. Sure there are all the home games in the state without the state income tax, but the benefit only applies to a little over half their salary.

After googling it and reading the article provided by Lurker, I owe you an apology for doubting your word ploto. Sorry my friend. I had no idea that this was the case and I thank you for the insight.:toast

[4RINGS]

Great, like we needed 2 threads about Sheed


Twice the stress :lol


I know... we will not be able to sleep tonight... imagining Sheed on the sideline, smiling, being a great citizen, the HEB and Time Warner ads... :lol:lol:sleep:sleep

[smrattler]

After googling it and reading the article provided by Lurker, I owe you an apology for doubting your word ploto. Sorry my friend. I had no idea that this was the case and I thank you for the insight.:toast

If that is true, that's bullshit! I work all over the coutry, travel outside the country too for work... why am I not made to pay when I work outside of Texas?

Maybe I asked that the wrong way... why are NBA plyers having to pay tax when they work out of state?

[lurker23]

If that is true, that's bullshit! I work all over the coutry, travel outside the country too for work... why am I not made to pay when I work outside of Texas?

Maybe I asked that the wrong way... why are NBA plyers having to pay tax when they work out of state?

Here's the relevant excerpt from the article I linked above:

"In the tax world, it's no secret that athletes are treated differently from other highly paid workers -- investment bankers and corporate lawyers, for example -- who also work in multiple states. The jock tax, critics say, is poorly targeted, arbitrarily enforced and unrealistically burdensome -- and also completely understandable given the current economic climate.

"No, it's probably not fair," says Ralph Espinosa, a Miami-based CPA who has done tax work for several NFL and major league players. "But they make more money than most of us. Their information is easily accessible online. Most people know their salaries [and] they can go in and see their schedules."

Athletes are taxed based on "duty days" they spend in each state. In baseball, there are approximately 181 "duty days," meaning a player earning $1.81 million would make $10,000 each duty day. Therefore, if that player's team had three games in California, he would be responsible for taxes on $30,000 of income.

At that point, all the tax collectors have left is a math problem to figure out that Ichiro Suzuki, the highest-paid baseball player in Washington, a tax-free state, will have to pay more than $218,000 in California taxes for the 25 games the Mariners will play there this summer.

The salaries and schedules for lawyers, bankers, entertainers and other professionals who might be subject to nonresident taxes aren't as accessible. But that hasn't stopped some states from trying to reel in CEOs and other well-paid executives by auditing corporations for their travel records, tax professionals say.

Touring entertainers such as singers or comedians often have taxes withheld by either the promoter or the venue. But collecting from film crews can be trickier since shooting schedules aren't publicized and are frequently changed and actors aren't on the set every day."

[doobs]

You guys do know that players still have to pay state income tax for every game they play in all those other states. Sure there are all the home games in the state without the state income tax, but the benefit only applies to a little over half their salary.

True. But it's important to note that two division rivals---the Rockets and the Mavs---are also located in Texas.

[Summers]

I know... we will not be able to sleep tonight... imagining Sheed on the sideline, smiling, being a great citizen, the HEB and Time Warner ads... :lol:lol:sleep:sleep

As excited as I am and anxious to hear any news at all, I HAVE to get some sleep because I have little ones that get up early. Sheed has littles ones... that's probably why he's not taking midnight calls. :lol

[AFBlue]

As excited as I am and anxious to hear any news at all, I HAVE to get some sleep because I have little ones that get up early. Sheed has littles ones... that's probably why he's not taking midnight calls. :lol

I'm sure you can rest easy...doubt there will be any midnight signings or early morning agreements by any players/teams this year.

[4RINGS]

I'm sure you can rest easy...doubt there will be any midnight signings or early morning agreements by any players/teams this year.

Sheed will prob. make everyone wait a few weeks anyway. :pimpslap

[lefty]

I know... we will not be able to sleep tonight... imagining Sheed on the sideline, smiling, being a great citizen, the HEB and Time Warner ads... :lol:lol:sleep:sleep
:lol

[lefty]

As excited as I am and anxious to hear any news at all, I HAVE to get some sleep because I have little ones that get up early. Sheed has littles ones... that's probably why he's not taking midnight calls. :lol

Both of my kids played hard

[Marcus Bryant]

Hopefully the Spurs' pitch consists of Pop meeting with Wallace and not bullshitting him. Let Orlando roll out the Mickey Mouse show.

[HarlemHeat37]

Pop: "Rasheed, let me be honest with you...we would love to have you here, you would make a big impact for us, and we feel like you could be a great backup to Michael Finley"..

[bigdog]

I'm not expecting anything immediately, but this insomnia surely isn't helping me at all.

[timvp]

Hopefully Wallace makes a quick decision. If he picks the Spurs, then the Spurs can move on and figure out how to spend the LLE. If he doesn't pick the Spurs, then they can go on and go to Plan B.

[lefty]

"But Pop, you told me I would have to do only 100 pushups "
Pop: " Shut up and give me another 100 ! "

http://mvn.com/cavalierattitude/nba_a_wallace2_395.jpg

[bigdog]

Hopefully Wallace makes a quick decision. If he picks the Spurs, then the Spurs can move on and figure out how to spend the LLE. If he doesn't pick the Spurs, then they can go on and go to Plan B.

I think he could make a quick decision. I mean, Wallace knows who's interested and the money they could offer. It should only come down to San Antonio, Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando. After that, I don't think it should be a hard decision. He just has to decide which team gives him the best chance to win NOW, and I think it's either San Antonio or Boston. I hope he chooses San Antonio.

[Borosai]

I just called Mr. Wallace. He said, "Get off my lawn!"

Followed by "I'ma be a Spurrrrrrr."

No joke.

[4RINGS]

I think he could make a quick decision. I mean, Wallace knows who's interested and the money they could offer. It should only come down to San Antonio, Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando. After that, I don't think it should be a hard decision. He just has to decide which team gives him the best chance to win NOW, and I think it's either San Antonio or Boston. I hope he chooses San Antonio.

We have the best food, the Riverwalk, the best fans... hell what does he want?? Chowder???:lmao:lmao

[HarlemHeat37]

According to Florida Today, Orlando is out of the race..

[lefty]

According to Florida Today, Orlando is out of the race..
Magic may not afford big man

BY JOHN DENTON • FLORIDA TODAY • July 1, 2009


Drew Gooden, anyone? Or how about other Magic castoffs from years past such as Juwan Howard or Steven Hunter? Or possibly even Chris Wilcox, Shelden Williams, Joe Smith or Rasho Nesterovic.
Or could Orlando reunite with Tony Battie, traded last week in the Carter deal -- if his contract is bought out by the New Jersey Nets?
In other words, any hopes Magic fans had of seeing a major upgrade at power forward in the form of Rasheed Wallace, Antonio McDyess or Brandon Bass likely are gone because Orlando almost certainly won't have the financial wherewithal to attract such players.
With the July 1 start of the NBA's free-agent courting period hitting at midnight hours earlier, the Magic turned their top priority toward trying to retain backup center Marcin Gortat, a restricted free agent whom they can match any contract offer he receives if they so choose to so. But clearly, finances are tight now with Carter on board.
Orlando has $68 million committed to eight players with $50.2 million of it going to Rashard Lewis ($18.8 million), Carter ($16.3 million) and Dwight Howard
($15.1 million). Adding the required five more bodies to the roster will take the payroll to $75 million, some
$6 million above the projected luxury tax threshold of $69 million. That dollar-for-dollar penalty will take the Magic's salary commitment next season to about $81 million.
The Magic's only chances of landing Wallace or McDyess, it would seem, would have been to offer their entire mid-level exception ($5.5 million), but instead the team will break up the exception and use it to sign multiple players. In a double-whammy of sorts for the Magic, Wallace or McDyess could end up with Eastern Conference rivals Boston or Cleveland.
Being out of the running for Wallace, McDyess and Bass puts added pressure on the Magic to try and retain Gortat, the 6-foot-11 center from Poland who played well behind Howard last season while averaging 3.8 points and 4.5 rebounds. He is a seen as a blossoming talent around the NBA and is expected to attract much interest because of his size and rebounding talents. The Magic would likely match any offer at $4 million a season, but might lose the center if another team offers its full mid-level exception ($5.5 million).

(2 of 2)
"There's no question we still need to get bigger. Even if we're able to re-sign Marcin, we'll still need another big (man)," Magic coach Stan Van Gundy said."The minimum that you want to go into a season with at the (power forward) and (center) spots is five guys and you might even want a sixth."
http://www.floridatoday.com/gcicommonfiles/sr/graphics/common/adlabel_horz.gif


The Magic were pushed around physically and beaten on the boards by the Los Angeles Lakers, losing the championship round 4-1. The thought was that the Magic need more rebounding and toughness around Dwight Howard. And if the Magic added a starting caliber power forward the team could move Lewis back to his natural position of small forward.
Instead, Lewis will now likely stay at power forward and either Mickael Pietrus or J.J. Redick will start alongside of Carter on the wings.
Warning him that the market could be lukewarm this summer with few teams shelling out big contracts, Orlando attempted to keep Turkoglu with a four-year extension onto his current deal. But Turkoglu turned that down, opted out of his Magic contract and started looking to secure a $10 million-a-year contract. Portland, Toronto and Sacramento are the favorites to sign Turkoglu, Orlando's leading scorer in the Finals at 18 points per game.
Van Gundy feels the addition of Carter makes the Magic significantly better because of his ability to create offense on his own. Carter gives the Magic another 20-point scorer and a creative, athletic playmaker who is a better passer than most realize.
And Van Gundy also believes the addition of power forward Ryan Anderson has been overlooked. Anderson, a 6-foot-10 power forward with 3-point range, was included in the Carter trade. Orlando sent Courtney Lee, Battie and Rafer Alston to New Jersey.
Anderson averaged 7.4 points and 4.7 rebounds last season, while hitting 36.5 percent of his 3-pointers.
Van Gundy pointed out that Anderson averaged as many rebounds per minute as Wallace and Battie last season and he made as many 3-pointers per minute played as Wallace at a better percentage.
$
"Anderson is going to be much more of an addition than people think," Van Gundy said. "He's a name that gets totally left out as if he were just a throw-in. The deal was made for Vince (Carter), but people are discounting what we got back in him. People got to know Courtney (Lee) and he played well for us in the playoffs. We certainly lost a good, young player, but we got back a good, young player.This is a guy who is three years younger than Courtney and he fits the way we play very. He's a good player who is a good fit. I'm not trying to make him out to be a star, but he's certainly at Courtney's level. That is sort of lost in the shuffle."

[Mr. Body]

Why the hell is Orlando spending so much money on Rashard Lewis? Good God.

[lefty]

Why the hell is Orlando spending so much money on Rashard Lewis? Good God.
Because he can make turnaround 3's

[EricB]

Why the hell is Orlando spending so much money on Rashard Lewis? Good God.

Lottery team + supposed best free agent+ desperation= Rashard Lewis's contract.

[Mr. Body]

It was an Isiah Thomas special. They outbid themselves for his services. Didn't they structure a S&T with Seattle to get him more money? Sheesh.

[Spurtacus]

Come on Sheed.

[EricB]

It was an Isiah Thomas special. They outbid themselves for his services. Didn't they structure a S&T with Seattle to get him more money? Sheesh.

Yes they did.

One of Sam Presti's first orders of business getting that sign and trade.

Got a draft pick or two and can't remember who else for Lewis.

[VivaPopovich]

We have the best food, the Riverwalk, the best fans... hell what does he want?? Chowder???:lmao:lmao

the best cheerleaders too

that oughtta do it

[crc21209]

Not so sure if this had been posted anywhere:

Rasheed Wallace in Dallas, but was it to talk to Mavs?

Reports indicate Detroit Pistons forward Rasheed Wallace(notes) was in Dallas over the weekend partying at the Ritz, according to Dallasbasketball.com.

However, the web site was not certain the visit to Texas had anything to do with joining the Mavericks.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Rasheed-Wallace-in-Dallas-but-was-it-to-talk-to?urn=nba,173723

So what if he was in S.A. for a day or 2 after all? Then flew from S.A to Dallas to party it up some. Hmm.....

[holcs50]

Yea im not losing sleep on this. It's down to the Celts or Spurs, well, unless the mavs (not sure their cap sit and dont want to look up) or another team pays significantly more than the MLE. Sheed has to know this is his last shot though at another title, so I look for him to go to Celts or Spurs. Celts scare me cuz you know GayG is going to be all "motherfucker get up to boston, yeeee yaa mofo" and in his ear. TD will be all chill, hopefully sheed goes with his heart and where he thinks he can really win. But I'm really not counting on anything, nor should you guys cuz there's a good chance he goes to boston-don't get ur hearts broken, ha.

I really hope he does pick soon though, I mean we gotta go get mcdyess pronto if he picks boston. I don't want to end up with some shitstain fill in like the last 5 years. Oh yea, just thought of something that i think will affect his decision greatly. He might be lookin for who is willing to give him the longer contract. Say Boston throws up like 3/4 years and we only will do 2, he'll prob go for the team showing more commitment. Personally 4 years is WAY too long, 3 is really pushing it, hopefully 2 year deal.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Why not go to our special FA insider? I understand that Sheed once ate some Greecey French Fries so I'm sure KBP has the true inside line on what's going on...:downspin:

[Grundle]

the best cheerleaders too

that oughtta do it

really?!!!

i love the spurs, but seriously... our cheerleaders look like trannies.

there are far better reasons to sign with SA. Pop, Tony, Tim, Manu... RJ even...

plus, this is Sheed we're talking about... and I happen to know we get pretty good weed here in SA.

[smrattler]

Not so sure if this had been posted anywhere:

Rasheed Wallace in Dallas, but was it to talk to Mavs?

Reports indicate Detroit Pistons forward Rasheed Wallace(notes) was in Dallas over the weekend partying at the Ritz, according to Dallasbasketball.com.

However, the web site was not certain the visit to Texas had anything to do with joining the Mavericks.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Rasheed-Wallace-in-Dallas-but-was-it-to-talk-to?urn=nba,173723

So what if he was in S.A. for a day or 2 after all? Then flew from S.A to Dallas to party it up some. Hmm.....


Nobody ever confirmed he was in SA. But supposedly it's well known he really was in Dallas partying at the Ritz. Doesn't seem to be much doubt there according to local radio in Dallas.

But even they said the facts are: Mavs can't talk to Sheed until Tues night and Cuban is in NYC trying to be the first to knock on JKidd's hotel door at midnight. Damn stalker!

In theory he could get little Donnie to take care of the Sheed thing. But let's get back to "basketball" and you have to think Dallas would be a terrible fit for him. Dirk and Sheed play similar styles on offense, they would still have no strong offensive presence in the middle, Sheed would choke half the team by December for not helping him protect the rim, Mavs don't have the leaders on the court to keep him cool... I don't see why he'd go there.

[Supergirl]

I actually really like Sheed a lot, but he's gettin a little long in the tooth. Anyone else prefer the Spurs to focus on trying to get Varaejo?

[Agloco]

Shit, pop is probobly in bed right now also.

Or in his wine cellar......

[Agloco]

Not so sure if this had been posted anywhere:

Rasheed Wallace in Dallas, but was it to talk to Mavs?

Reports indicate Detroit Pistons forward Rasheed Wallace(notes) was in Dallas over the weekend partying at the Ritz, according to Dallasbasketball.com.

However, the web site was not certain the visit to Texas had anything to do with joining the Mavericks.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Rasheed-Wallace-in-Dallas-but-was-it-to-talk-to?urn=nba,173723

So what if he was in S.A. for a day or 2 after all? Then flew from S.A to Dallas to party it up some. Hmm.....

He might have gone to Dallas to party after doing some business here in SA.......:toast

[4RINGS]

really?!!!

i love the spurs, but seriously... our cheerleaders look like trannies.

there are far better reasons to sign with SA. Pop, Tony, Tim, Manu... RJ even...

plus, this is Sheed we're talking about... and I happen to know we get pretty good weed here in SA.

The best WEED for SHEED will win his services.:lmao:lmao

[Extra Stout]

I actually really like Sheed a lot, but he's gettin a little long in the tooth. Anyone else prefer the Spurs to focus on trying to get Varaejo?
For a person who strongly prefers Varejao, and is on the sanguine end about the Spurs' chances of signing him, we can figure it like this:

Sheed
Rating: 70 out of 100
Chance of signing him: 33%
Score: 23.3

Varejao
Rating: 90 out of 100
Chance of signing him: 10%
Score: 9.0

[Spurs Brazil]

By Marc Stein
ESPN.com
Boston has emerged as the hot new entrant in the race for Sheed. My colleague Ric Bucher from ESPN The Magazine credits Kevin Garnett for convincing Celtics personnel chief Danny Ainge to enter the bidding and for leading the Celtics' lobbying efforts.

Orlando, San Antonio and Dallas all have strong Sheed interest as well, although sources say that the Mavericks -- through president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson -- were planning to make an equally personal and determined pitch to Magic restricted free agent Marcin Gortat as soon as possible to match owner Mark Cuban's pitch in New York right after midnight to Jason Kidd.

It must be a Texas thing, because Rockets general manager Daryl Morey announced via his Twitter feed right around midnight that he was soon to meet with Gortat, urging Houstonians stung by the latest dire projections about Yao Ming's long-term health to send their message of support to [email protected].

Word is that New York and Indiana are also among the teams to register immediate interest in Gortat over the phone once free agency started, which helps explain why one Eastern Conference official describes the 7-footer from Poland as this summer's likely "Powerball winner," since Gortat almost certainly will cash in on the position he plays despite limited opportunities in Orlando behind Howard.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=Chatter-090701

[Extra Stout]

Or, let's say we square the rating to weight the decision on the side of perceived quality over safety:
Sheed: 70 * 70 / 100 * 0.33 = 16.3
Varejao: 90 * 90 / 100 * 0.10 = 8.1

[rjv]

lots of teams interested in sheed and the spurs have fared well in the past when bidding for players that other contenders have shown interest in. this, i believe, is due to the respect pop commands from players. but it will be interesting to see how the wallace sweepstakes pan out.

[GSH]

There is no such thing as a "front runner" in FA deals. Until he signs with someone, none of this means poop. We were the frontrunners for Bourousis, too, remember?

[coyotes_geek]

Word is that New York and Indiana are also among the teams to register immediate interest in Gortat over the phone once free agency started, which helps explain why one Eastern Conference official describes the 7-footer from Poland as this summer's likely "Powerball winner," since Gortat almost certainly will cash in on the position he plays despite limited opportunities in Orlando behind Howard.

Interesting to read Indiana's getting in on the Gortat chase.

[Extra Stout]

There is no such thing as a "front runner" in FA deals. Until he signs with someone, none of this means poop. We were the frontrunners for Bourousis, too, remember?
Exactly. None of these "journalists" are in contact with the free agents directly, or have any grasp of their current thought processes. So their labeling one team or another "frontrunner" is based upon two things:
1) What they think they know about the player's preferences based upon previous knowledge.
2) What decision they would make if they were in the player's shoes.

[4RINGS]

By Marc Stein
ESPN.com
Boston has emerged as the hot new entrant in the race for Sheed. My colleague Ric Bucher from ESPN The Magazine credits Kevin Garnett for convincing Celtics personnel chief Danny Ainge to enter the bidding and for leading the Celtics' lobbying efforts.

Orlando, San Antonio and Dallas all have strong Sheed interest as well, although sources say that the Mavericks -- through president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson -- were planning to make an equally personal and determined pitch to Magic restricted free agent Marcin Gortat as soon as possible to match owner Mark Cuban's pitch in New York right after midnight to Jason Kidd.

It must be a Texas thing, because Rockets general manager Daryl Morey announced via his Twitter feed right around midnight that he was soon to meet with Gortat, urging Houstonians stung by the latest dire projections about Yao Ming's long-term health to send their message of support to [email protected].

Word is that New York and Indiana are also among the teams to register immediate interest in Gortat over the phone once free agency started, which helps explain why one Eastern Conference official describes the 7-footer from Poland as this summer's likely "Powerball winner," since Gortat almost certainly will cash in on the position he plays despite limited opportunities in Orlando behind Howard.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=Chatter-090701


Since we are a small market team, he may opt to go with the larger Boston Market. He is going to make us all wait... and then pull the rug from under us...

[MajorMike]

They were in the same position last year for Corey Maggette also.


We turned down a Maggette trade, remember?

[4RINGS]

Who is the last BIG NAME FA that we have been able to snag???

[Extra Stout]

But they're "experts" aren't they?:rollin
In the present age, with so much information readily available to someone willing to look for it, the "expert" role in journalism is more about breadth of coverage and personality than about any kind of special access. I've simply come to expect that most of us on this forum are going to know a lot more about the Spurs than any national "expert;" however, Marc Stein and Chris Broussard will probably know more about the Knicks and Sixers than we ever will (though far less than devoted Knicks and Sixers fans do).

[Extra Stout]

Who is the last BIG NAME FA that we have been able to snag???
Michael Finley

[4RINGS]

Michael Finley

Damn, it has been a while.

[rjv]

pop has been able to land finley (when he was wanted) and horry (same) when there were similar circumstances as far as cap space and competition were concerned.

[Spursfan092120]

I've simply come to expect that most of us on this forum are going to know a lot more about the Spurs than any national "expert;"
You got that right.

[Summers]

Interesting to read Indiana's getting in on the Gortat chase.

I swear I read "goat cheese".

[vander]

I swear I read "goat cheese".

me too, they say everyone reads based on the first and last letter of each word

[lotr1trekkie]

If the money is almost equal it will come down to what role Pop has in mind for Sheed. I do not see him as starter but an Horry clone who relieves Tim alone with Manu, HIll, Finley etc. on the second unit and finishing games. If someone offers him a starting position maybe that is more attractive to him although he won't get starters money. Where would Boston play him?

[superfedja]

almost everybody on this board knew that our hope for maggette was tied to him not getting any offers bigger than the MLE. we believed that we had a good shot if all the offers were roughly equal. but that was a small possibility for him in last year's market.

this year, it's a high probability that sheed doesn't get any offers that are more than what the Spurs will put out there for him. he'll get pretty much the same contract offer from every team, it will just come down to personal preference.

I don't think so. I think some teams (especially other contenders) might sign him for a little bit more money just to prevent him from signing with the Spurs. If I'm Cleveland, LA, Boston, Orlando or Denver I'm scared of the rumors right now ... cuz if Sheed signs with the Spurs, we'll be the favorites to win it all.

[4RINGS]

I don't think so. I think some teams (especially other contenders) might sign him for a little bit more money just to prevent him from signing with the Spurs. If I'm Cleveland, LA, Boston, Orlando or Denver I'm scared of the rumors right now ... cuz if Sheed signs with the Spurs, we'll be the favorites to win it all.

No one wants Sheed to come to the Spurs. The talking heads are making me worry. We are trying to take home the sexy Playboy playmate, but we may have to settle for the Wal-mart Flyer model...that SUCKS!!!!

[G-Nob]

Why the hell is Orlando spending so much money on Rashard Lewis? Good God.

They overpaid for Hedo, too. They took a huge gamble and it almost worked out for them.

[TDMVPDPOY]

By Marc Stein
ESPN.com
Boston has emerged as the hot new entrant in the race for Sheed.

Celtics only gave big baby davis QO only....maybe we should try and sign davis....

[bigdog]

Celtics only gave big baby davis QO only....maybe we should try and sign davis....

but...by giving him the QO, doesn't that make him a restricted free agent?

[50 cent]

Yes, the Celtics can match.

[lefty]

From today through the start of the free agent signing period on Wednesday, Project Spurs will profile free agents on our wishlists. Of all the free agent big men that the Spurs might pursue, Drew Gooden is the most well known and familiar to Spurs fans. That is both good and bad.
http://projectspurs.com/images/goodenonscola.jpgFirst, the good. The Spurs front office and their fans had a chance to see him for 19 games during the regular season and four during the postseason, which means they are familiar with what he can bring. That's a good thing because they don't have to ask the same questions about him like they do with Marcin Gortat or Ryan Hollins, who are relative unknowns at this point compared to Gooden. During his 19 games with the Spurs, Gooden confirmed my beliefs about him.
While not a great rebounder, Gooden is a good rebounder. His true rebounding rate, which is an estimation of the total rebounds a player grabs out of all possible rebounds, was 15.5%. This is better than Rasheed Wallace but lower than Tim Duncan, Antonio McDyess or Marcin Gortat.
Gooden also displayed a solid low post game, probably the best that the Spurs have had (besides Duncan's of course) since David Robinson. He showed nice footwork around the basket and has respectable touch from mid range and in. With the Spurs he averaged 21 points per 36 minutes, which was the best of his career.
However, Gooden also has his weaknesses, and I don't mean poor choices in facial hair. Unlike Gortat or Hollins, who are young and still show potential to develop, Gooden is an established player. What we saw last season is what we will get with him. Nothing drastic will change at this point.
Despite Gooden's offensive strengths around the basket he is somewhat of a black hole with the ball. He is not a good passer and rarely looks to create for others. He also doesn't have a high basketball IQ. Don't expect him to make the quick, intelligent off the ball cuts that Fabricio Oberto was so good at a few years ago.
Gooden is also extremely limited defensively. He is nothing more than an average athlete and rarely collects blocks or steals, averaging 0.2 blocks and 0.2 steals with the Spurs. Similar to the offensive end, Gooden lacks a high basketball IQ on the defensive end, missing switches or finding himself out of place.
If the Spurs decide to find an offensive big man then Gooden could be a good fit. However, I have a feeling the Spurs are looking more for defense and athleticism at this point because the addition of Richard Jefferson adds another scorer. Even though DeJuan Blair should help on the boards, the Spurs were weaker at both rebounding and blocking this past season than normal. Gooden should command somewhere between $3 million and $5 million on the market depending on how much others are paid. At 28 he is still young enough that a team could expect 10-13 points and 5-8 rebounds out of him for the next three to four years. The Spurs should probably look at players who provide more in the way of rebounds and blocks but Gooden is an established player they would not have to ask many questions about.


http://projectspurs.com/2009/06/30/f...ew-gooden.html (http://projectspurs.com/2009/06/30/free-agent-profile-drew-gooden.html)

[StoneBuddha]

Interesting to read Indiana's getting in on the Gortat chase.

He's white...

[lefty]

A Perfect Fit? Rasheed Wallace (http://howardthedunk.com/2009/07/01/a-perfect-fit-rasheed-wallace/)

Posted by: andrewmelnick
http://howardthedunk.com/files/2009/07/sheed.jpgAs every day passes, it looks less and less likely that Hedo Turkoglu will ever play for the Orlando Magic again. In a previous blog (http://howardthedunk.com/2009/06/29/a-perfect-fit-brandon-bass), the thought of the Magic acquiring Brandon Bass and how he would be a very good fit with Orlando Magic was discussed. This would be a great pickup for the Magic and he would indeed be a very good fit, but I’m not sure that he would be the best fit. In fact, the best fit for the Magic could be a player who has been a thorn in the side of Magic – Detroit Pistons PF/C Rasheed Wallace. On draft night, David Aldridge of NBA TV reported that Sheed wanted to decide between the Orlando Magic and the San Antonio Spur (http://airalamo.com/)s. Now several outlets including Wicked Good Sports (http://www.csnne.com/wickedgoodsports/rasheed-in-green/), are reporting that both Boston and Rasheed Wallace are interested in each other. The Cleveland Cavalier (http://kingjamesgospel.com/)s are also apparently on Rasheed’s radar. He is apparently good friends with Kevin Garnett and would like to play with the 2007-08 NBA champions. The Celtic (http://hardwoodhoudini.com/)s are arguably the favorite to win the title again this year. The three Rasheed Wallace suitors are three of the five best teams in the league. In Boston (http://hardwoodhoudini.com/), Sheed would probably not be a starter. Orlando could offer Sheed a starting job.
Wallace’s numbers were down last year – he averaged 12 PPG and 7.4 RPG while playing in 32.2 MPG. He appeared in 66 games and was virtually non-existent as the Pistons were swept out of the first round by LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers (http://kingjamesgospel.com/). With that being said, in all of his other postseason appearances, with both Portland (http://ripcityproject.com/) and Detroit (http://lifeondumars.com/), Wallace has performed very well. This year his team was extremely overmatched losing to a team that won 66 games last season. For Wallace’s career, he has averaged 15 PPG, 6.9 RPG and 1.3 BPG. Throughout his career, Wallace has always been an outstanding interior defender. With Wallace and Dwight Howard, the paint would be locked down. When Howard was in foul trouble in the 2009 postseason, teams had no problem getting into the paint and scoring or kicking out for open shots. Wallace would prevent this from happening. He would be able to be matched up with players like Pau Gasol, who burned the Magic last season, and Kevin Garnett, who is returning from injury, and has always been a thorn in the Magic’s side. He could also keep Dwight Howard out of foul trouble against the Cleveland Cavaliers by covering their new Center, Shaquille O’Neal. He could also match up with Tim Duncan in a potential Finals matchup with the San Antonio Spurs (http://airalamo.com/).
http://howardthedunk.com/files/2009/07/sheedfor3.jpgWallace can step back and hit the 3.

The Magic showed a lot of mental toughness during last season’s postseason but many critics still wonder if the Magic lack enough toughness to actually win an NBA Championship. Rasheed would fix that. He never backs down and has a type of swagger that the Magic seem to lack at times. Rasheed would become the starting PF, allowing Rashard Lewis, the Magic’s 18 million dollar man, to move back to his natural position of SF. This would give the Magic maybe the biggest, toughest front court in the NBA. They’d have a chance to lead the league in both rebounding and shot blocking, rather than just having Dwight do all the work. Besides that, Wallace has always defended Dwight Howard better than anyone else and keeping him away from the other two Eastern Conference contenders, Boston (http://hardwoodhoudini.com/) and Cleveland (http://kingjamesgospel.com/), would be good news for Superman. Rasheed is not only a pretty good scorer in the paint, but he has a nice stroke from downtown. Rasheed can hit the three, which, even without Turk, would still allow the Magic to have four threats from three point range surrounding Dwight Howard. He could also make players like Gasol and Garnett step away from the basket to guard Sheed, allowing for penetration by Jameer Nelson.
Of course there are some drawbacks. Rasheed Wallace is 34 years old, had a poor postseason and one of his worst regular seasons in a while. There are some reasons that Sheed may have not performed up to his usual standard. The trade of Chauncey Billups for Allen Iverson really hurt the whole team. Not only did they lose their floor leader, but then, Iverson was injured for a good portion of the season. The Magic, on the other hand, are just getting their floor leader back as All Star PG Jameer Nelson returned from a midseason injury in the NBA Finals. Rasheed also played Center during the last two seasons while in Orlando he would move back to his natural position of PF. Rasheed also has mental lapses and a big mouth which is why he usually leads the league in technical fouls. He can really get a team into trouble, but also, his antics have many times sparked his Pistons teams. All in all, Rasheed Wallace seems like he would be another fantastic acquisition and a perfect fit with the Magic. Newly acquired SG Vince Carter should get his fellow UNC alumni on the phone.


http://howardthedunk.com/2009/07/01/a-perfect-fit-rasheed-wallace/

[Spurs Brazil]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sources say Boston Celtics GM Danny Ainge and assistant director of basketball operations Leo Papile showed up on Rasheed Wallace’s(notes) doorstep just after midnight Wednesday to make their recruiting push.

“I know he is definitely considering playing for them,” one league source said.

The Celtics also have expressed interest in Toronto Raptors guard Anthony Parker(notes) .

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AuHtw_lTIzwHSqghAMJNAPe8vLYF?slug=aw-gordonvillanueva070109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[Da Spurs]

If the money is almost equal it will come down to what role Pop has in mind for Sheed. I do not see him as starter but an Horry clone who relieves Tim alone with Manu, HIll, Finley etc. on the second unit and finishing games.


If we get Sheed, he will definitely start. You're going to start Bonner ahead of Sheed? Are you freakin kidding? I think Bonner moves to the end of the bench. He sucks. If Ian can contribute at all, I don't see Bonner playing.

[vander]

If we get Sheed, he will definitely start. You're going to start Bonner ahead of Sheed? Are you freakin kidding? I think Bonner moves to the end of the bench. He sucks. If Ian can contribute at all, I don't see Bonner playing.

19th in the league in +/-

explain how causing your team to outscore opponents by 9 points more per 48 minutes when you are on the floor sucks

[4RINGS]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sources say Boston Celtics GM Danny Ainge and assistant director of basketball operations Leo Papile showed up on Rasheed Wallace’s(notes) doorstep just after midnight Wednesday to make their recruiting push.

“I know he is definitely considering playing for them,” one league source said.

The Celtics also have expressed interest in Toronto Raptors guard Anthony Parker(notes) .

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AuHtw_lTIzwHSqghAMJNAPe8vLYF?slug=aw-gordonvillanueva070109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


I bet RC and POP were at his door too. Right now Sheed prob. has about four offers in front of him that he is considering. It is going to be tuff...:ihit

[4RINGS]

19th in the league in +/-

explain how causing your team to outscore opponents by 9 points more per 48 minutes when you are on the floor sucks


He sucks because he has RED hair.:lmao:lmao:lmao

[spurspokesman]

He seems the think the Spurs are the current "leader in the clubhouse" in the Rasheed sweepstakes. I guess we'll soon find out.

http://espn.go.com/

:toast Thanks for the info Senor. I hope so.

[coyotes_geek]

19th in the league in +/-

explain how causing your team to outscore opponents by 9 points more per 48 minutes when you are on the floor sucks

I've got no beef with Bonner, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that Bonner's +/- rating is anything more than a reflection of how much time he got to spend on the court with Tim Duncan and Tony Parker. +/- is the most mis-used stat there is.

[Da Spurs]

Yeah, Bonner really tore them up in the 5 playoff games. He freakin disappeared!! He's terrible on defense and he's a mediocre rebounder. He can only shoot threes and when the other team steps up and stops that, he's totally useless.

[EricB]

Yeah, Bonner really tore them up in the 5 playoff games. He freakin disappeared!! He's terrible on defense and he's a mediocre rebounder. He can only shoot threes and when the other team steps up and stops that, he's totally useless.

I guess if you keep perpetuating a myth it eventually becomes truth.

[Spursfan092120]

I guess if you keep perpetuating a myth it eventually becomes truth.
:tu I didn't think he was that bad on defense either.

[DBMethos]

Does anybody think that with all the talk about Rasheed, the lack of talk about McDyess is just as intriguing? He's more of a prototypical Spurs-type of player anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was the Spurs' #1 preference all along.

[vander]

I've got no beef with Bonner, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that Bonner's +/- rating is anything more than a reflection of how much time he got to spend on the court with Tim Duncan and Tony Parker. +/- is the most mis-used stat there is.

Bonner's floor time stats were better when paired with KT than with Duncan, Tony Parker has better floor time stats with Bonner than with TD, so who's making who look better?

he may not look pretty out there, but the team definitely plays better when he's on the court

it's really not hard to understand

in the 1900 or so minutes that Bonner was on the court, the Spurs outscored opponents by 338 points
in the 1975 or so minutes that Bonner was NOT on the court, the Spurs were outscored by 10 points

[Spursmania]

I'm just going to say it right now-Fuck Boston.:flipoff

[Da Spurs]

I would hope that our starters would outscore the other team. Is that so hard to understand? If he was negative, then so would Tim and Tony. Stupid statistic that has no bearing on anything.

If it's so important, then what was his +/- during the 5 playoff games?

[4RINGS]

Bonner's floor time stats were better when paired with KT than with Duncan, Tony Parker has better floor time stats with Bonner than with TD, so who's making who look better?

he may not look pretty out there, but the team definitely plays better when he's on the court

it's really not hard to understand

in the 1900 or so minutes that Bonner was on the court, the Spurs outscored opponents by 338 points
in the 1975 or so minutes that Bonner was NOT on the court, the Spurs were outscored by 10 points

Bonner is a paper tiger.

[Mel_13]

Bonner's floor time stats were better when paired with KT than with Duncan, Tony Parker has better floor time stats with Bonner than with TD, so who's making who look better?

he may not look pretty out there, but the team definitely plays better when he's on the court

it's really not hard to understand

in the 1900 or so minutes that Bonner was on the court, the Spurs outscored opponents by 338 points
in the 1975 or so minutes that Bonner was NOT on the court, the Spurs were outscored by 10 points

In 1413 minutes that Bonner was on the court with Tony Parker and any other three players, Spurs outscored opponents by 317 points.

In 506 minutes Bonner played without Tony Parker on the court, Spurs outscored opponents by 21 points.

[benefactor]

In 1413 minutes that Bonner was on the court with Tony Parker and any other three players, Spurs outscored opponents by 317 points.

In 506 minutes Bonner played without Tony Parker on the court, Spurs outscored opponents by 21 points.
Owned....

[z0sa]

+/- over an entire season is very telling of a player's impact, and in all honesty, just accept the fact Bonner playing means good things for this team haters.

[z0sa]

Owned....

Owned? We still outscored people without our Big 2 on the court, as long as Bonner was around. I'm not sure how Manu skews these numbers.

The fact its still positive is more evidence FOR Bonner's case, geniuses... no one is saying he's not directly affected by TP and TD, but the proof is in the pudding: good shit happens when Bonner is in the lineup

[coyotes_geek]

Bonner's floor time stats were better when paired with KT than with Duncan, Tony Parker has better floor time stats with Bonner than with TD, so who's making who look better?

he may not look pretty out there, but the team definitely plays better when he's on the court

it's really not hard to understand

in the 1900 or so minutes that Bonner was on the court, the Spurs outscored opponents by 338 points
in the 1975 or so minutes that Bonner was NOT on the court, the Spurs were outscored by 10 points

How many of those 1900 minutes did he play with Parker and Duncan? I agree the team plays better when he's on the court. But he spends most of his time on the court with our two best players, so it stands to reason his +/- numbers will look good.

[Mel_13]

What the +/- prove to me is that Bonner was part of the best line-up we could put out there last year. It does not mean, IMO, that playing Sheed or Dice ahead of Bonner would not improve the team.

[Mugen]

Bonner would be a great 4th or 5th big.

[Obstructed_View]

What the +/- prove to me is that Bonner was part of the best line-up we could put out there last year. It does not mean, IMO, that playing Sheed or Dice ahead of Bonner would not improve the team.

Agreed. It also means that Bonner's not as terrible as many make him out to be. He was playing out of position against bigger better players for the most part and managed not to detroy the team. Imagine how he might be able to contribute once he's back in a role that's suited for him.

[coyotes_geek]

Owned? We still outscored people without our Big 2 on the court, as long as Bonner was around. I'm not sure how Manu skews these numbers.

The fact its still positive is more evidence FOR Bonner's case, geniuses... no one is saying he's not directly affected by TP and TD, but the proof is in the pudding: good shit happens when Bonner is in the lineup

+/- should not be used as evidence for or against any individual player. Case in point, Richard Jefferson. He was a -104 last year. I guess the Spurs screwed up in getting him since his +/- provides pretty clear evidence that bad things happened when he was on the court.

Caron Butler's a -379. Spurs better stay clear of that guy.

[Spursmania]

I can't find any news on Sheed and the Spurs. Just a bunch of articles on SA, Miami and Boston interests in Sheed. Also, that Garnett has been bending his ear to go with Boston and they are good freinds. But I say who cares if they are good freinds? This is a business. If I was Sheed I would want to start and no amount of jokes Garnett can tell me during games would change my mind about starting.

I mean why would he want to come off the bench? Wonder when any news will break?:cheer

[vander]

In 1413 minutes that Bonner was on the court with Tony Parker and any other three players, Spurs outscored opponents by 317 points.

In 506 minutes Bonner played without Tony Parker on the court, Spurs outscored opponents by 21 points.

there's no denying that TP was our best player last year, no one is saying that we should try to unload TP. you are entirely missing the point, TP was better when Bonner was on the floor

[4RINGS]

I can't find any news on Sheed and the Spurs. Just a bunch of articles on SA, Miami and Boston interests in Sheed. Also, that Garnett has been bending his ear to go with Boston and they are good freinds. But I say who cares if they are good freinds? This is a business. If I was Sheed I would want to start and no amount of jokes Garnett can tell me during games would change my mind about starting.

I mean why would he want to come off the bench? Wonder when any news will break?:cheer

I think Sheed will string everyone around for a while. Maybe next week???

[EricB]

I can't find any news on Sheed and the Spurs. Just a bunch of articles on SA, Miami and Boston interests in Sheed. Also, that Garnett has been bending his ear to go with Boston and they are good freinds. But I say who cares if they are good freinds? This is a business. If I was Sheed I would want to start and no amount of jokes Garnett can tell me during games would change my mind about starting.

I mean why would he want to come off the bench? Wonder when any news will break?:cheer

Probobly next week.

Its getting close to a holiday weekend some some people are gonna start to hunker down for a 3 day weekend, so if nothing happens today or tommarow, expect waiting till monday or tuesday for anything to leak out on negotiations.

[z0sa]

+/- should not be used as evidence for or against any individual player.

You have to use a little sense, too. Sorry I forgot to mention that.

On a 53 win roster, Bonner had an extremely high +/-. Therefore, its clear he was a contributor to those wins.

On a disgustingly bad team, I'd be willing to bet RJ and Butler's +/- is pretty damn good in comparison with their teammates even. Additionally, you kidna expect #2 or #3 options having to carry a #1 option's load to have shitty +/- numbers.

In Bonner's case, its a perfect exhibit of his contributions when used in the context it was meant to be used in. The fact Bonner still managed positive +/- numbers without TP or TD on the floor is more evidence for him, IMO.

[vander]

How many of those 1900 minutes did he play with Parker and Duncan? I agree the team plays better when he's on the court. But he spends most of his time on the court with our two best players, so it stands to reason his +/- numbers will look good.

but that doesn't explain how his +/- is the BEST on the TEAM. in order for other players to be pulling his # up, they would have to have a better +/- first.

Bonner's +/- can't pull ahead of TP or TD when he's on the court with TP or TD

another way of putting it. in most 5 man units involving Bonner, if you replace Bonner, the +/- for the unit decreases

[coyotes_geek]

You have to use a little sense, too. Sorry I forgot to mention that.

On a 53 win roster, Bonner had an extremely high +/-. Therefore, its clear he was a contributor to those wins.

On a disgustingly bad team, I'd be willing to bet RJ and Butler's +/- is pretty damn good in comparison with their teammates even. Additionally, you kidna expect #2 or #3 options having to carry a #1 option's load to have shitty +/- numbers.

In Bonner's case, its a perfect exhibit of his contributions when used in the context it was meant to be used in.

Jefferson's +/- was 2nd worst on his team. Butler's +/- was the worst on his. Is it clear that those two were contributors to their team's losses? Does this data present a perfect exhibit of these player's negative contributions?

[bigdog]

I can't find any news on Sheed and the Spurs. Just a bunch of articles on SA, Miami and Boston interests in Sheed. Also, that Garnett has been bending his ear to go with Boston and they are good freinds. But I say who cares if they are good freinds? This is a business. If I was Sheed I would want to start and no amount of jokes Garnett can tell me during games would change my mind about starting.

I mean why would he want to come off the bench? Wonder when any news will break?:cheer

According to McDonald, the Spurs have already been in contact with Rasheed, but Sheed's agent hasn't confirmed it.

[z0sa]

Jefferson's +/- was 2nd worst on his team. Butler's +/- was the worst on his. Is it clear that those two were contributors to their team's losses? Does this data present a perfect exhibit of these player's negative contributions?

I'm just curious, why are you comparing #2 option players who were #1 options on shitty teams to Bonner, who was at best, a #3 option at any given time, and usually the 4th option on a good team? Try finding someone with a similar role on their team to compare the numbers.

What it sounds like is you're writing +/- off altogether, which is one of the best indicators of a player's contributions over a long period of time. If you don't feel it is, sorry?

[vander]

Jefferson's +/- was 2nd worst on his team. Butler's +/- was the worst on his. Is it clear that those two were contributors to their team's losses? Does this data present a perfect exhibit of these player's negative contributions?

other factors come into play when your team sucks, such as your #1 option (who shouldn't be a #1 option) plays the first 3 quarters as the team falls behind, then other guys play in garbage time and get a few points back.

+/- requires competitive/meaningful games

but still, that does worry me about RJ

[lefty]

Why Rasheed Wallace Would Be a Mistake for the Celtics (http://dimemag.com/2009/07/this-would-be-a-mistake-for-the-celtics/)

By Patrick Cassidy (http://dimemag.com/author/patrick-cassidy/)
http://dimemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/rasheed_wallace.jpg
Over on CelticsBlog (http://www.celticsblog.com/2009/7/1/933389/sheed-got-a-midnight-visit-from), we just saw that Danny Ainge showed up on Rasheed Wallace’s doorstep last night at midnight to give Boston’s recruiting pitch to the free agent.

That pretty much tells you, just like everyone’s been talking about for the past few days, ‘Sheed is Boston’s No. 1 free agent target this offseason. On paper, a lineup of ‘Sheed, KG, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rajon Rondo (assuming Boston can’t swing a trade to get him out of town), looks pretty solid. But there are lots of concerns.
First off, they’re old. Whether it was because ‘Sheed just didn’t care about last season or whatever, by the time the Cavs dismissed the Pistons, he didn’t look like he had much left in the tank. Would a move to Boston rejuvenate him? Maybe. But I wouldn’t be looking for a whole lot out of Wallace beyond just hanging out at the top of the key to jack threes. Another shooter helps them, but it’s not really what they need - another athletic perimeter player who can create his own shot and take some of the scoring burden off of Paul Pierce.
And how about Rasheed’s on-court antics? Even the most die-hard Detroit fan has to admit that it’s a tired act at this point. Maybe playing with KG, Pierce and Ray will chill him out a bit.
Overall, I think Boston clearly needs to get younger and faster. Remember when the Celtics’ master plan behind drafting Len Bias was that his youth and athleticism would extend the careers of Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish? Danny Ainge needs to apply that same type of thinking to this Boston team. While there’s probably nobody out there like a Len Bias, there are guys to be had. The San Antonio Spurs just pulled off exactly what I’m talking about with their acquisition of Richard Jefferson (http://dimemag.com/2009/06/breaking-news-richard-jefferson-traded-to-the-spurs/). The Spurs moved a few bit pieces for a guy who will keep their championship contender window open a few years long just by being in the mix.
A move like that makes a ton more sense than paying for a guy who might be done.





http://dimemag.com/2009/07/this-woul...r-the-celtics/ (http://dimemag.com/2009/07/this-would-be-a-mistake-for-the-celtics/)

[TFloss32]

I can't find any news on Sheed and the Spurs. Just a bunch of articles on SA, Miami and Boston interests in Sheed. Also, that Garnett has been bending his ear to go with Boston and they are good freinds. But I say who cares if they are good freinds? This is a business. If I was Sheed I would want to start and no amount of jokes Garnett can tell me during games would change my mind about starting.

I mean why would he want to come off the bench? Wonder when any news will break?:cheer

I find it very encouraging that you can find news articles about all of these other teams pursuing Rasheed and other FAs, but not the Spurs. Look at how the whole Richard Jefferson thing played out...it hit us all like a brick wall and nobody saw it coming (including the media and all of these guys who are "in the know"). I'm sure the likes of Ric Bucher and Chris Broussard had no idea that was going to happen. We just have to remember that the Spurs don't play the media game and never show their cards. We won't know anything about the situation until Rasheed actually signs and talks about how it all went down (if he does come here). It's safe to say it's down to SA and Boston (even though I can't see him signing there). It sucks because we might've known something today if Boston hadn't thrown their name in the hat at the last minute.

[coyotes_geek]

I'm just curious, why are you comparing #2 option players who were #1 options on shitty teams to Bonner, who was at best, a #3 option at any given time, and usually the 4th option? Try finding someone with a similar role on their team to compare the numbers.

I'm using players who are obviously better than Bonner to show why +/- is a completely meaningless method of evaluating individual players and whether or not they're having a positive impact on their team.

But if you're looking for someone who played a similar role, how about McDyess? He's -68. Played on a mediocre team. Played about the same minutes as Bonner did.

Gortat, -51 in 800 minutes. Played on a team that was better than Bonner's. Is Gortat a -51 because he doesn't help his team? Or is he a -51 because when he's on the floor Dwight Howard isn't?

Camby, -205 in 1900 minutes. Would you trade Bonner for Camby?

Haslem, +35 in 2600 minutes. Would you trade Bonner for Haslem?

The examples go on and on. +/- has way more to do with who you're on the court with than it does how productive a player you are. It's an interesting stat to know, but it's completely meaningless in terms of trying to evaluate players.

[ElNono]

Would you trade Bonner for Haslem?

I would...

[z0sa]

I'm using players who are obviously better than Bonner to show why +/- is a completely meaningless method of evaluating individual players and whether or not they're having a positive impact on their team.

But if you're looking for someone who played a similar role, how about McDyess? He's -68. Played on a mediocre team. Played about the same minutes as Bonner did.

Gortat, -51 in 800 minutes. Played on a team that was better than Bonner's. Is Gortat a -51 because he doesn't help his team? Or is he a -51 because when he's on the floor Dwight Howard isn't?

Camby, -205 in 1900 minutes. Would you trade Bonner for Camby?

Haslem, +35 in 2600 minutes. Would you trade Bonner for Haslem?

The examples go on and on. +/- has way more to do with who you're on the court with than it does how productive a player you are. It's an interesting stat to know, but it's completely meaningless in terms of trying to evaluate players.

You already made this point earlier, though I still don't understand why you're comparing players +/- from shitty teams (Gortat's played 35% of the minutes Bonner did in a bench role). They're obviously going to be bad. I never denied +/- is affected by the team's efforts every nights. That's why you don't compare a 53 win who earned HC with a lottery team. In fact, +/- are meant to be used within only a certain context, like I previously proposed.

The point I'm making is that good things happen when Bonner is on the court. +/- numbers ARE a good indicator of that like you just proved. You can point to where I ever ventured outside of the parameters of this argument, instead of trying to find fault with the numbers themselves.

Your rebuttal is that he played with TP and TD, but he still posted positive numbers regardless in 500 more minutes. He can't go higher than them when he plays with them, so how did his rise so exceptionally?

[vander]

I'm using players who are obviously better than Bonner to show why +/- is a completely meaningless method of evaluating individual players and whether or not they're having a positive impact on their team.

But if you're looking for someone who played a similar role, how about McDyess? He's -68. Played on a mediocre team. Played about the same minutes as Bonner did.

Gortat, -51 in 800 minutes. Played on a team that was better than Bonner's. Is Gortat a -51 because he doesn't help his team? Or is he a -51 because when he's on the floor Dwight Howard isn't?

Camby, -205 in 1900 minutes. Would you trade Bonner for Camby?

Haslem, +35 in 2600 minutes. Would you trade Bonner for Haslem?

The examples go on and on. +/- has way more to do with who you're on the court with than it does how productive a player you are. It's an interesting stat to know, but it's completely meaningless in terms of trying to evaluate players.

Camby was actually a +7 per 48 for the clips
you might be just using on-court numbers instead of the difference between on-court and off-court

and Bonner > Mcdyess > Haslem > Gortat :wakeup