lol, Avery

[monosylab1k]

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=1788


Avery Johnson’s warped self-image is the gift that keeps on giving. A few times during his stint in Dallas, he mentioned the bond he shared with Detroit GM Joe Dumars. Both of the fellas are from Louisiana, you see. The Lil’ Johnson really stressed that angle a year ago, when the Pistons had a coaching vacancy following the departure of Flip; Avery said of Dumars: “We talk all the time.’’

Of course, to my knowledge, Johnson did not get a serious interview in Detroit last year when Michael Curry ended up getting the job.

Well, now Curry is gone, the job is again open, and this time, The Miracle Worker really is in line for the position. The only stumbling block? Yahoo spoke to Dumars and reports that Joe-D “doesn’t really know Avery very well.’’

Oh, Joe-D. … you are about to increase that Avery learning curve. The Lil’ Johnson is coming to town and, unless the last year has humbled him, has a lot to teach you.

[monosylab1k]

so after Avery gets rejected for another HC job, are we gonna hear again how all he wants to do is collect Cuban's money?

[DMX7]

and the Finals.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Which they won.

[Obstructed_View]

Mavfan's obsession with finding proof that AJ's the reason for all their failures is the gift that keeps on giving.

[Indazone]

The only reason that Avery got the Mavs to the finals wasn't because of his coaching. It was because of Don Nelson's legacy and Del Harris's genius.

No Del Harris - Mavs in disarray with Avery turning into a little tyrant micromanaging everything.

[monosylab1k]

Mavfan's obsession with finding proof that AJ's the reason for all their failures is the gift that keeps on giving.

Only topped by Spurfan's reasoning for why Avery can't get another head coaching job.

[ulosturedge]

Lol why do Mavs fan hate on Avery so much. Avery taught your sad ass team to play some defense. If Donnie stays headcoach they continue to be a Goldenstate Warriors clone and don't make any kind of run. What happened in the Finals looked like a monumental choke to me by the players. How do you win the first two games and then go on to lose four in a row? Did Pat Riley make the best adjustment ever that was impossible to overcome? Maybe Avery could have done a better job in the Finals, but to me the players screwed that one up not AJ.

[monosylab1k]

Lol why do Mavs fan hate on Avery so much. Avery taught your sad ass team to play some defense. If Donnie stays headcoach they continue to be a Goldenstate Warriors clone and don't make any kind of run. What happened in the Finals looked like a monumental choke to me by the players. How do you win the first two games and then go on to lose four in a row? Did Pat Riley make the best adjustment ever that was impossible to overcome? Maybe Avery could have done a better job in the Finals, but to me the players screwed that one up not AJ.

Well if he's such a great coach then I'm sure he's a shoe-in for the Detroit job. Great coaches don't stay unemployed for too terribly long, especially when they're interviewing for & campaigning for jobs. I can't imagine Phil Jackson ever having trouble finding a team that wants him to be their coach. So what's the excuse for Avery if he doesn't get another HC job this offseason?

Oh yeah, "rofl he just wants to take Cuban's money! he could coach wherever he wanted but screwing over Cuban is more fun! suck on that Mav fan! hahahahahahaha"

[La Peace]

Maybe they just can't take him seriously because of his voice.

I love him because of his voice

[mavs>spurs2]

Avery was a good coach at first but as his success grew so did his ego until he just became too much.

[BUMP]

Mavfan's obsession with finding proof that AJ's the reason for all their failures is the gift that keeps on giving.

i dont understand. i loved Avery as a coach and was pissed when they canned him.

[ulosturedge]

AJ's monumental mistake was thinking Jason Kidd was the answer. "If it ain't broke dont fix it". Can't really make the team into something they aren't, and as soon as the Mavs team noticed the team chemistry was destroyed with the absence of Harris they gave up on AJ. Thats when it all went downhill. Live and learn I guess. I still think you need to give credit to AJ for taking the Mavs to that next level for those 2 years. Donnie wasn't going to change anything, but AJ did.

[Ghazi]

^ That is one of the stupider posts i've seen. You really don't know what you're talking about.

[Bob Lanier]

Only topped by Spurfan's reasoning for why Avery can't get another head coaching job.:lol, can't.

Avery is just a typical African-American, content to live on the dole. If he wanted to get a job, he could.

[VivaPopovich]

dumars is finally making some right decisions, firing curry then possibly hiring avery. that would be a good fit for detroit. avery's hard nose style was never a good fit for dallas anyways

avery can also come back home to SA as an assistant too =)

[Spursfan092120]

Avery is Detroit's leading candidate right now. And maybe a Mavs fan can fill me in on this. Why exactly is a guy who led you to the Finals for the first time, and won coach of the year, and led you to a phenomenal record a horrible coach?

[Ghazi]

First off, Avery didn't "lead" the Mavs to a phenomenal record, the players did. This is a players league, it was the players that won it all in 2006, not Avery.

Avery had a disgusting mismanagement of the 07-08 season though that seemed to vex the players. A few things that come to mind off top of head: the timeout 20 seconds into the Jersey game, the benching of Kidd at the end of the Spurs game that really didn't serve any strategic advantage IMO, and the random insertion of JJ Barea into the 4th playoff game v the Hornets, his first action since garbage time in a March game against the KNicks. on top of that, musical chairs rotations (although we still saw that this year), an infatuation with small ball, a seeming attempt to make J-Ho the focal point of the offense early in the year..hhThings like this... mediocre X's and O's and substitution patterns, poor use of timeouts, etc etc.

However, although I don't know what goes on between the ears of Mavs players, I did nt see them quit on Avery at the end of the season. After the Kidd trade, Dirk/Kidd were kicking ass and the defensive rating soared... really didn't see the team quit, saw JOsh Howard quit though.

[monosylab1k]

:lol, can't.

Avery is just a typical African-American, content to live on the dole. If he wanted to get a job, he could.

He's certainly been interviewing for HC jobs like he wants one. How many more rejections will it take before anyone thinks that maybe the majority of NBA people know that the guy is a nice rah-rah guy with no brain?

Oh wait, he just wants to live off Cuban's money, faking interest in the Bulls, Suns, & Pistons job twice is all a ruse.

[ulosturedge]

First off, Avery didn't "lead" the Mavs to a phenomenal record, the players did. This is a players league, it was the players that won it all in 2006, not Avery.

Avery had a disgusting mismanagement of the 07-08 season though that seemed to vex the players. A few things that come to mind off top of head: the timeout 20 seconds into the Jersey game, the benching of Kidd at the end of the Spurs game that really didn't serve any strategic advantage IMO, and the random insertion of JJ Barea into the 4th playoff game v the Hornets, his first action since garbage time in a March game against the KNicks. on top of that, musical chairs rotations (although we still saw that this year), an infatuation with small ball, a seeming attempt to make J-Ho the focal point of the offense early in the year..hhThings like this... mediocre X's and O's and substitution patterns, poor use of timeouts, etc etc.

However, although I don't know what goes on between the ears of Mavs players, I did nt see them quit on Avery at the end of the season. After the Kidd trade, Dirk/Kidd were kicking ass and the defensive rating soared... really didn't see the team quit, saw JOsh Howard quit though.

So Avery didn't do anything for the Mavericks? He didn't having any impact on the team when they decided to sign him as a headcoach?

[monosylab1k]

http://www.freep.com/article/20090703/SPORTS03/907030406/Avery+Johnson+is+Pistons++lead+candidate


A former NBA point guard, Johnson would probably be a good mentor for Rodney Stuckey. He is also considered an offensive wiz.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[monosylab1k]

avery can also come back home to SA as an assistant too =)

Yeah I wonder why that hasn't happened yet? It's not like there's rumors out there that Tim Duncan can't stand him or anything like that.

[Spursfan092120]

Avery is Detroit's leading candidate right now. And maybe a Mavs fan can fill me in on this. Why exactly is a guy who led you to the Finals for the first time, and won coach of the year, and led you to a phenomenal record a horrible coach?
still waiting on someone to answer this....

[mardigan]

I mean He did lead the Mavs to an amazing record.

and the Finals.

Which they won.
:lol
Well played sirs.

[ulosturedge]

Avery is Detroit's leading candidate right now. And maybe a Mavs fan can fill me in on this. Why exactly is a guy who led you to the Finals for the first time, and won coach of the year, and led you to a phenomenal record a horrible coach?

Because according to Ghazi it was "The players that won it all in 2006". Apparently Avery was just a beneficiary of it all. Well except that I don't know where he gets "won it all" from. Unless you mean the WCC banner. Those would be the same players that choked 4 in a row too then.

Apparently some Mavs fans failed to noticed that their defense was non-existent up until Avery showed up. He may not be a complete coach but atleast give him credit for giving Dallas some type of defensive presence. He also got Dirk to quit settling for jumpers. But apparently that was all an illusion I guess.

[lurker]

I just hope that Avery ends up as the Spurs' coach sometime in the next few years.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

It is funny to call Avery Johnson an offensive genius because of his "let players take turns creating their own shot" isolation offense.

[iggypop123]

i would want him just for discipline. he is the only coach i have seen cup check his own player

[Obstructed_View]

^ That is one of the stupider posts i've seen. You really don't know what you're talking about.

Agreed. AJ didn't want Kidd. :lol

[monosylab1k]

Agreed. AJ didn't want Kidd. :lol

I bet you think Avery and Tim Duncan are bestest friends too, right?

[monosylab1k]

Why did OV delete his last post? I guess I'd delete my post too if I ever wrote anything that retarded.

[Obstructed_View]

I bet you think Avery and Tim Duncan are bestest friends too, right?

Of course not. Nobody liked AJ. Ever.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/GeneralPurpose/Spurstalk/kathybates.jpg

[Spursfan092120]

I don't get it..Dallas had no defense before Avery...they weren't even Finals CONTENDERS before Avery...Avery gets you there, wins coach of the year, teaches your team some defense, and all of a sudden he's the worst coach in Dallas history..yeah..go ahead..pin it on the coach, when you just didn't have it in you that year...gotta find someone to blame it on...it couldn't be your players. If, in your opinion, Dallas won the title, you'd think you'd give a little more credit to the coach that won you your first LOB.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Of course not. Nobody liked AJ. Ever.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/GeneralPurpose/Spurstalk/kathybates.jpg

:lmao

[ElNono]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/2009/news/features/art_garcia/07/04/johnson.detroit/avery1_262.jpg

Dumars trying to lure Avery Johnson back to sidelines
By Art Garcia, NBA.com
Posted Jul 4 2009 11:46AM

Joe Dumars is headed to Texas to try to woo Avery Johnson back to the sidelines, a source told NBA.com. The Pistons president is meeting with the former Mavericks coach for the first time Sunday at Johnson's home in the Houston area to discuss the opening.

Johnson isn't necessarily looking to return to the bench this season and, according to the source, has to be convinced that Detroit makes sense on multiple levels before going forward. Dumars' mission is as much a recruitment as it is an outright offer.

Detroit has been without a coach since Dumars fired Michael Curry on June 30 after just one season on the job. Johnson, with two years left of compensation after being dismissed by Dallas owner Mark Cuban on April 20, 2008, spent last season as an analyst for ESPN.

Johnson, 44, is in the enviable position of waiting for the right opportunity before returning to coaching. The Pistons job could be it if several conditions are met beyond contract terms. As much as finances will play into the deal, the Johnson camp is looking for a true partnership with management/ownership.

Input on personnel is one of the keys. Assembly of the roster in Dallas was largely influenced by Cuban -- a fact Johnson understood as a first-time head coach. Johnson would want more of a say in putting together a team going forward, which is a responsibility many of the top coaches in the league enjoy.

The agreements with Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva at the beginning of free agency demonstrate Dumars' aggressiveness in rebuilding the Pistons. Detroit has been one of the NBA's most successful teams this decade, reaching at least the Eastern Conference finals every season from 2003-08.

But the Pistons took a step back this season. The early-season trade of longtime fan favorite and floor general Chauncey Billups for Allen Iverson fizzled, and Detroit limped into the Playoffs with a 39-43 record as the eighth seed. Cleveland swept the Pistons in the first round.

Even after the huge splash in free agency, Dumars' work is hardly done. Decisions likely have to be made about the future of Richard Hamilton and possibly Tayshaun Prince. With the addition of Gordon in a backcourt that includes Rodney Stuckey, Hamilton and Prince could be valuable trade assets in acquiring a high-end frontcourt piece. Detroit is prepared to lose both big men Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess in free agency, along with Iverson.

Johnson's track record, despite his unceremonious end in Dallas, is a positive when selling Detroit fans on the future. The "Little General" led Dallas to its only trip to The Finals in 2006 and the league's best record (67-15) during 2006-07. Johnson owns a career record of 194-70 (.730) and is the fastest coach in league history to 50, 100 and 150 career wins. He is 23-24 in the postseason.

Dumars would likely have to offer a multiyear deal (four to five years) at about $5 million annually to entice Johnson. A contract of that size would demonstrate a commitment in the coach, a luxury Curry didn't have. Dumars is hiring his sixth coach in 10 years running the franchise.

Other potential candidates include Cleveland assistant John Kuester and Boston assistant Tom Thibodeau. Doug Collins withdrew from consideration earlier this week.

Curry was let go amid concerns he lost the locker room during his one season on the job. Johnson has dealt with the Cuban-driven perception that a player mutiny led to his ouster in Dallas. The Mavericks lost in the first round in each of Johnson's last two seasons.

Johnson is in no rush to leave ESPN and is willing to survey the coaching market next year if a deal with Dumars doesn't fall into place. Dumars has said he wants to have a coach in place before the Pistons leave for Summer League next week.

[ElNono]

LOL, Mono...

[Obstructed_View]

I don't get it..Dallas had no defense before Avery...they weren't even Finals CONTENDERS before Avery...Avery gets you there, wins coach of the year, teaches your team some defense, and all of a sudden he's the worst coach in Dallas history..yeah..go ahead..pin it on the coach, when you just didn't have it in you that year...gotta find someone to blame it on...it couldn't be your players. If, in your opinion, Dallas won the title, you'd think you'd give a little more credit to the coach that won you your first LOB.

Don't take away Mavfan's delusions. That's all he's got. Cuban is brilliant, Harris was overrated, nobody there wanted the Kidd trade (when it looks bad), everybody wanted the Kidd trade (after he has a good game), Diop was sucky and overrated (after they traded him away and then gave him the MLE)...

And AJ is da DEBBOL.

[Spursfan092120]

Don't take away Mavfan's delusions. That's all he's got. Cuban is brilliant, Harris was overrated, nobody there wanted the Kidd trade (when it looks bad), everybody wanted the Kidd trade (after he has a good game), Diop was sucky and overrated (after they traded him away and then gave him the MLE)...

And AJ is da DEBBOL.
I just don't understand it. A few of the Mavs fans on this site have some knowledge...but if you talk about Avery, they hate him..he's done more for them than any coach they've had, IMO, and yet they hate him.

[mavs>spurs2]

I just don't understand it. A few of the Mavs fans on this site have some knowledge...but if you talk about Avery, they hate him..he's done more for them than any coach they've had, IMO, and yet they hate him.

The little tyrant was the one who went to Cuban and demanded that "he needed a point guard."

[BlackBellamy]

C'mon Mavs fans, you're just hating 'cause A.J. didn't teach you how to make his momma's gumbo. :hungry:

[monosylab1k]

Don't take away Mavfan's delusions. That's all he's got. Cuban is brilliant, Harris was overrated, nobody there wanted the Kidd trade (when it looks bad), everybody wanted the Kidd trade (after he has a good game), Diop was sucky and overrated (after they traded him away and then gave him the MLE)...

And AJ is da DEBBOL.

Nobody is better at coming up with complete bullshit than Obstructed_Douche. If you had a clue what the fuck you were talking about you'd know we all hate Cuban as much as we all hate Avery. And for the record, we only hate Avery as much as Tim Duncan does.

[monosylab1k]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ar804KkayfjYFC.vdmCM1A68vLYF?slug=aw-pistonscoach070309&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Once Doug Collins dropped out of consideration this week, Johnson was presumed to be the front-runner. Nevertheless, it is clear that Detroit is in no hurry to hammer through a deal with Johnson. There’s no indication why his candidacy hasn’t sped through in Detroit, although past employers and teammates haven’t always spoken glowingly of him.

lol, Avery knobslobbers. past employers, plural. I guess maybe higher-ups in Golden State hated him too.

[monosylab1k]

I know, I know, "past employers and teammates" is exclusively people in the Mavs organization. It's not like there's rumors out there that Tim Duncan can't stand Avery.

[Spursfan092120]

The little tyrant was the one who went to Cuban and demanded that "he needed a point guard."
But didn't he lead you guys to the Finals?

[redzero]

I'll take Johnson over Scott.

[monosylab1k]

But didn't he lead you guys to the Finals?

Did Mike Brown "lead" the Cavs to the 07 Finals?

[monosylab1k]

I'll take Johnson over Scott.

But Scott has 2 Finals appearances, to Avery's 1. Doesn't that make him twice as good a coach according to Spurs fans?

Oh wait, Byron Scott didn't piggyback Duncan & Robinson on the way to a title during a half-season of basketball. Doing something extraordinary like that makes you almost God-like. Kind of like how playing 2 good minutes of basketball against Tim Duncan in the overtime of a Game 7 when Duncan is in agony due to plantar fasciitis makes you as good as Bill Russell.

[Ghazi]

Off topic. Did the Mavs give Ross a minimum contract or actually burn the LLE on his candy ass?

[Findog]

Off topic. Did the Mavs give Ross a minimum contract or actually burn the LLE on his candy ass?

Who cares either way? I'd give him the LLE.

[monosylab1k]

Isn't Quinton Ross a poor man's Greg Buckner? Mark Cuban might be having his worst offseason ever, and that's saying something.

[Ghazi]

I care! :(

[Findog]

Isn't Quinton Ross a poor man's Greg Buckner? Mark Cuban might be having his worst offseason ever, and that's saying something.

You're shitting me...I think Gortat and Ross are solid additions. Ross is a good defender and 40% 3-pt shooter. Those two additions are not nearly sufficient for where they want to be, but how can you shit on adding Gortat for the MLE? Or Ross for a role at the end of the rotation?

The offseason will be judged by resigning Kidd and turning Stack/Damp into something good. They have until August to do that.

[monosylab1k]

You're shitting me...I think Gortat and Ross are solid additions. Not nearly sufficient for where they want to be, but how can you shit on adding Gortat for the MLE? Or Ross for a role at the end of the rotation?

The offseason will be judged by resigning Kidd and turning Stack/Damp into something good. They have until August to do that.

Yeah, it's a dream come true to blow our MLE on an unproven backup who averaged 4/4 a night the year before.

[Findog]

Yeah, it's a dream come true to blow our MLE on an unproven backup who averaged 3/3 a night the year before.

Gortat is a great pickup for the MLE.

[monosylab1k]

The Lakers add Ron Artest for the MLE and there's debate if he might help or hurt them.

The Mavs add Marcin Gortat for the MLE and everyone's jizzing in their pants.

I guess we see where the bar is for each organization.

[Ghazi]

Gortats PER and per minute #'s if replicated would mean it was a good deal for the MLE.

Big "if" though :)

[BlackSwordsMan]

magic gonna add sheed for the mle

[Findog]

The Lakers add Ron Artest for the MLE and there's debate if he might help or hurt them.

The Mavs add Marcin Gortat for the MLE and everyone's jizzing in their pants.

I guess we see where the bar is for each organization.

You're comparing apples to oranges. The Lakers were the only team he'd accept the MLE for...and I'd rather spend the MLE on Gortat than Artest anyways. For all of his talent and skill, Artest brings a lot of other baggage with him. It's not a slam-dunk by any means they'll repeat with him.

I don't understand shitting on the Gortat move. Last year was basically his rookie season. Even if he never improves on what he showed in Orlando, it's hard to argue the Mavs will be reeling from the contract they gave him.

[monosylab1k]

Gortat is a great pickup for the MLE.

Gortat's potential is a great pickup. Gortat actual is a terrible pickup, along the lines of getting Diop for the MLE.

If Gortat's production stays consistent with added minutes, it's great. Of course there's zero guarantee whatsoever he'll do that.

He's not a proven commodity, he's another question mark going into next season. We had enough question marks as it was, I wanted something proven.

[Findog]

Gortats PER and per minute #'s if replicated would mean it was a good deal for the MLE.

Big "if" though :)

It's worth a shot. He's 24. Rasheed Wallace is 36 years old. Does anybody think Rasheed Wallace is going to put us over the top? There's no one single player available for the MLE that is going to bring us a title. Given our needs and what was available, I like rolling the dice on Gortat. We were deficient at the 2 and 5 last year. Gortat is an attempt to address the 5.

Who else should we get? A "name" like Marion or Iverson? Neither of those guys shore up our weaknesses at the 2 or 5.

[Findog]

Gortat's potential is a great pickup. Gortat actual is a terrible pickup, along the lines of getting Diop for the MLE.

If Gortat's production stays consistent with added minutes, it's great. Of course there's zero guarantee whatsoever he'll do that.

He's not a proven commodity, he's another question mark going into next season. We had enough question marks as it was, I wanted something proven.

Given what you can get for the MLE and what our needs are, I like the Gortat signing. The MLE is hit or miss anyways. I don't mind whiffing on this one if that's what ends up happening. It's worth a shot. Stack/Damp are the tools to land a bona fide guaranteed impact player, not the MLE. I'm judging the offseason on what they do with those contracts. Anything else is a bonus, and I think the Gortat signing is a good one.

[monosylab1k]

the Gortat signing simply flies in the face of all the big talk Mark & Donnie were giving before the offseason started. All that "nuclear winter" and "very active" talk is all horseshit. Cuban contended that very few teams were gonna be willing to spend money, and the Mavs could take advantage of that.

So far we've got Rodrigue Boobies, Gortat, & Quinton Ross. Nuclear winter indeed.

[Ghazi]

key word.... so far :)

ROME WASNT BUILT in a day (or whatever the saying is)

[Findog]

the Gortat signing simply flies in the face of all the big talk Mark & Donnie were giving before the offseason started. All that "nuclear winter" and "very active" talk is all horseshit. Cuban contended that very few teams were gonna be willing to spend money, and the Mavs could take advantage of that.

So far we've got Rodrigue Boobies, Gortat, & Quinton Ross. Nuclear winter indeed.

You have to wait until the deadline to buyout Stack passes before judging their summer efforts. Then you can talk about what they did or did not do. Assuming Kidd comes back, they're off to a good start.

[monosylab1k]

key word.... so far :)

ROME WASNT BUILT in a day (or whatever the saying is)

Wasn't burned in a day either.

[NewJerSpur]

Gortat can't sign until Wednesday right? Still time for him to pull a Hedo and ditch the Mavs for the Spurs maybe?

[monosylab1k]

You have to wait until the deadline to buyout Stack passes before judging their summer efforts. Then you can talk about what they did or did not do. Assuming Kidd comes back, they're off to a good start.

How much confidence do you have that they'll turn Stackhouse into anything?

Maybe they can finish the offseason strong, but alot of other contenders have started it strong, while the Mavs have limped out of the gates with their pants down. As usual.

[Findog]

The Mavs are idiots for wanting this guy, but the Spurs and Rockets are not?

[monosylab1k]

The Mavs are idiots for wanting this guy, but the Spurs and Rockets are not?

The Spurs and Rockets didn't throw the entire MLE at him. The Rockets are looking at more proven commodities first (Ariza) plus they're in a whole different world of shit as it is. And the Spurs already made their big move that put them out ahead of Dallas.

[Findog]

How much confidence do you have that they'll turn Stackhouse into anything?

Pretty confident. $7 million in immediate payroll relief is not inconsiderable in this economy.

[monosylab1k]

Pretty confident. $7 million in immediate payroll relief is not inconsiderable in this economy.

At least when they do fail to turn the Stack Chip into anything, Mav Fans will finally be united in belief that Mark & Donnie are completely incompetent.

[mavs>spurs2]

These moves the Mavs are making don't make alot of sense. It was obvious going into the offseason that we either needed to rebuild or have a HUGE infusion of talent to make one last push. Signing a back up center and a dleague scrub plus turning damp/stackhouse into "something decent" is nowhere NEAR not even in the same ballpark as a huge talent increase. We're only cementing our mediocrity for a few more years before we inevitably suck ass again. Unless Lebron is coming here for Damp/Stack then I strongly suggest that we don't resign Kidd, let Damp/Stack's contract expire and free up money, and begin the rebuilding process. Trade Dirk while he still has value and let him have a fair chance at a title.

[Findog]

The Spurs and Rockets didn't throw the entire MLE at him.

Houston used theirs on a Battier clone, and the Spurs apparently are going to give theirs to Wallace if he's willing. I'll defend Gortat vis a vis those moves.

San Antonio turned their expiring garbage into Richard Jefferson. The Lakers being the Lakers, get to sign guys like Artest for the MLE, because of the allure of playing in Hollywood with Kobe. You can't compare the Jefferson trade to Gortat. You can only compare the Jefferson trade to the Damp/Stack chips. If August comes and goes and Damp/Stack are still on the roster, then the summer is a failure. Judging solely the MLE and LLE on Gortat/Ross, and reports that Kidd is most likely to resign with us, I'd say the summer is off to a good start.

[Findog]

Trade Dirk while he still has value and let him have a fair chance at a title.

You have to sell tickets in this economy. Dirk is not going anywhere. And Gortat for the MLE is a good signing. He's not Wilt Chamberlain, but he's not a "backup" either. He could start for many teams.

And how does the Gortat and Ross signings not make sense? They sucked at the 5 last year. Gortat is an attempt to address that. He might not pan out into anything, but all you burned was your MLE if he doesn't. Ross for the LLE is a candidate to crack the rotation. He shoots 40% from 3 and is a good perimeter defender. Haven't the Mavs always been deficient at perimeter d? He's another attempt to fill the role that George and Wright failed to do.

[monosylab1k]

He could start for many teams.

How do you know this?

[Findog]

How do you know this?

Just start going through the depth charts of various teams. I'd take him over Erick Dampier. I'd take him over Matt Bonner if I were San Antonio.

[monosylab1k]

Just start going through the depth charts of various teams. I'd take him over Erick Dampier. I'd take him over Matt Bonner if I were San Antonio.

He's never been a starter so how do you know he could handle the starting role better than either of them?

[monosylab1k]

If we really needed a 12 minute a night big man, I know Gortat can deliver. We need a 30 minute a night big man, however, and in that scenario, all Gortat's got is potential. Which is exactly what my man Shawne Williams has.

[mavs>spurs2]

You have to sell tickets in this economy. Dirk is not going anywhere. And Gortat for the MLE is a good signing. He's not Wilt Chamberlain, but he's not a "backup" either. He could start for many teams.

And how does the Gortat and Ross signings not make sense? They sucked at the 5 last year. Gortat is an attempt to address that. He might not pan out into anything, but all you burned was your MLE if he doesn't. Ross for the LLE is a candidate to crack the rotation. He shoots 40% from 3 and is a good perimeter defender. Haven't the Mavs always been deficient at perimeter d? He's another attempt to fill the role that George and Wright failed to do.

All teams eventually have to rebuild when the party's over, that's a fact of life. It's also a fact that teams in the rebuilding phase don't sell a lot of tickets. If they didn't fuck up so bad in the past and make our franchise such a joke then maybe there would be more loyal fans like us who would stick with them through these upcoming bad times.

The first phase of rebuilding is trading away all your older players who still have value for younger pieces/future chips like draft picks. We need to clear up space so that we can sign a big free agent and pair him up with a lottery pick/future star so that we can get this thing back on track once again.

[Ghazi]

If Shawne Williams doesn't crack the rotation this year I am just going to FUCKING SNAP.

[Findog]

He's never been a starter so how do you know he could handle the starting role better than either of them?

If I'm Rick Carlisle or Gregg Popovich, having already seen what Damp/Bonner are capable of, I would be more than willing to give Gortat the opportunity to show what he can do. And if it cost me the MLE if he showed he wasn't up to the task, so be it. I like this move and see little potential downside. It's not as if it prevents the Mavs from acquiring other talent, and it is an attempt to address a weakness from last year (not enough 2-way playmaking at the center position).

[Findog]

If we really needed a 12 minute a night big man, I know Gortat can deliver. We need a 30 minute a night big man, however, and in that scenario, all Gortat's got is potential. Which is exactly what my man Shawne Williams has.

Gortat has put up a double-double in every career start. He's averaged a double-double when he gets more than 20 mpg. He played well in the playoffs. He's a center. He's 24 years old and this past season was for all intents and purposes his rookie season. Talk to any knowledgable Magic fan and they'll tell you he was an extremely hard worker who kept getting better and was a great teammate. Sorry, but that gets you the full MLE in this market. This is a solid move with little downside. Nothing more, nothing less.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Gortat was drafted by the Suns and then traded......that alone guarantees that he's legit.

[monosylab1k]

This is a solid move with little downside. Nothing more, nothing less.

I may be wrong but didn't we say that about the Diop signing a year ago? As we talked about what a scrub Mickael Pietrus was?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The move has downside.....anytime you sign a player to a long term deal there's risk

[Findog]

I may be wrong but didn't we say that about the Diop signing a year ago? As we talked about what a scrub Mickael Pietrus was?

And they had little trouble moving that contract bc Charlotte inexplicably found him an attractive trade target. When the time comes, they'll be able to unload Carroll as filler in a trade. I just don't see what the big deal is. Sometimes teams hit with the MLE and sometimes they completely whiff. Given our roster needs and what was available, I like the Gortat signing.

I won't lie, if training camp opens and Gortat/Ross is all we did, I'll be fucking pissed. But I will wait until the August deadline to buyout Stack happens. They have earned that much slack from me.

[Findog]

The move has downside.....anytime you sign a player to a long term deal there's risk

Of course, but they committed $32 million to Gortat. They gave $60 something million to Dampier. The downside is Gortat won't earn that $32 million, but that's a much less bitter pill to swallow than what Dampier has done...or hasn't done, as the case may be.

[mavs>spurs2]

Does anyone else see the point I'm trying to make? it's not that Gortat isn't a good signing, it's the fact that a couple solid moves aren't enough to make us contenders. We needed a huge infusion of talent to do that, otherwise we're just ensuring a 6-8th seed for a couple more years before we suck ass again.

[Findog]

Does anyone else see the point I'm trying to make? it's not that Gortat isn't a good signing, it's the fact that a couple solid moves aren't enough to make us contenders. We needed a huge infusion of talent to do that, otherwise we're just ensuring a 6-8th seed for a couple more years before we suck ass again.

My point is that we haven't even reached July 8th yet, the first day to sign players. The offseason player movement season is not even underway yet. They have until August to get that front-line player with the Stack/Damp chips. If that comes and goes, I'll be the first one screaming about it.

[monosylab1k]

Does anyone else see the point I'm trying to make? it's not that Gortat isn't a good signing, it's the fact that a couple solid moves aren't enough to make us contenders. We needed a huge infusion of talent to do that, otherwise we're just ensuring a 6-8th seed for a couple more years before we suck ass again.

I think this team needs only one more big time player to get back. Can you definitely say that any teams in the West other than LA/San Antonio/Denver are better than us?

If Cuban/Donnie can do something big with the Stack Chip (Which I have no confidence they can), this team can definitely be the #4 seed in the West next year, and if injuries plague other teams, you never know how much higher they can climb.

I just don't see them getting anything significant using Stackhouse, because they've done nothing since Nellie left that has helped the team all that much. To believe they WILL get something for Stackhouse just isn't smart, imo.

[mavs>spurs2]

My point is that we haven't even reached July 8th yet, the first day to sign players. The offseason player movement season is not even underway yet. They have until August to get that front-line player with the Stack/Damp chips. If that comes and goes, I'll be the first one screaming about it.

We need something along the lines of Emeka and Rip to fill the gaps at the 2 and the 5. If by August they turn Stack/Damp into that then I'll start thinking about getting my hopes up.

[Ghazi]

#4 seed? ugh that's just a 2nd round exit! Same as last year!

Boooo!

[monosylab1k]

We need something along the lines of Emeka and Rip to fill the gaps at the 2 and the 5.

Then let's all hope that Avery does get the Detroit job, because he's a guy stupid enough to make a Rip for Jet trade.

[mavs>spurs2]

I think this team needs only one more big time player to get back. Can you definitely say that any teams in the West other than LA/San Antonio/Denver are better than us?

Of course not, we're probably the 4th best team in the West as it stands. But the gap between LA and us is so big that it's just discouraging and leaves us with absolutely no hope of being in the mix unless we're able to do something major.




If Cuban/Donnie can do something big with the Stack Chip (Which I have no confidence they can), this team can definitely be the #4 seed in the West next year, and if injuries plague other teams, you never know how much higher they can climb.

See this is where we disagree. A 4 seed with potential to make the WCF just isn't that appealing to me. Even when our teams were good but not great like pre 2006, there was at least that outside chance of going all the way. Now I just feel discouraged and I think after all we've endured, our fans and especially Dirk deserve to be able to hope and cheer for a championship.


I just don't see them getting anything significant using Stackhouse, because they've done nothing since Nellie left that has helped the team significantly.

Agreed.

[mavs>spurs2]

Then let's all hope that Avery does get the Detroit job, because he's a guy stupid enough to make a Rip for Jet trade.

Then in that case we're losing our 2 best bench players on an already weak bench in JET and Bass who probably isn't coming back. Now to be contenders we need a Rip caliber 2, an Emeka caliber center, and 2-3 serviceable role players. We're so fucked.

[Ghazi]

I see a lot of disagreement and discontent

Can we all just agree that this is one of the 5 best songs ever?

4H0BMfqFP9c

[sribb43]

I may be wrong but didn't we say that about the Diop signing a year ago? As we talked about what a scrub Mickael Pietrus was?

At least the people with brains new that Diop was garbage and was not worth the MLE. Gortat does things that Diop could never do and thats dunk, make layups and rebound. He is probably worth a little more than 1/2 the MLE but the mavs are hoping his potential pans out. I wil say he has shown alot more than Shawne Fuckin' Williams could ever do.

If he ends up sucking Mavs will ship his ass out for another shitty player who is getting paid the full MLE, i.e. Matt Carroll and the Mavs front office will continue to fail

[Findog]

You can't get Gortat for 1/2 the MLE. Not gonna happen.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Wasn't Diop signed cause Cuban had some sort of agreement with him prior to the Kidd trade? Idk where I heard that but it makes sense since no other team was offering him anywhere near that.

[mavs>spurs2]

Nash needs to demand that Phoenix terminates his contract and sign with Dallas for the LLE to play his his buddy Dirk. What do u think DuncanownsKobe? :)

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Nash needs to demand that Phoenix terminates his contract and sign with Dallas for the LLE to play his his buddy Dirk. What do u think DuncanownsKobe? :)


Take his gay lazy "having fun is more important than winning" ass, and do it quickly.

[sook]

why are we "loling" at avery? \

[leemajors]

I see a lot of disagreement and discontent

Can we all just agree that this is one of the 5 best songs ever?

4H0BMfqFP9c

One of their 5 best, yes. Not saying a whole lot though.

[Obstructed_View]

why are we "loling" at avery? \

Because Mono believes rumors and half-truths about someone he doesn't like if he can repeat it as though its a fact. So he premature ejaculated on two unrelated quotes from Dumars and Avery that supports his theory that AJ is a liar (DEBBOL) and is the sole reason that his team completely sucks and is on the verge of losing the guy they traded young players, cash and draft picks for.

DEBBOL.

[024]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4305278

lol mono.

[monosylab1k]

Because Mono believes rumors and half-truths about someone he doesn't like if he can repeat it as though its a fact. So he premature ejaculated on two unrelated quotes from Dumars and Avery that supports his theory that AJ is a liar (DEBBOL) and is the sole reason that his team completely sucks and is on the verge of losing the guy they traded young players, cash and draft picks for.

Certainly works better than pretending exact quotes don't exist.

[Obstructed_View]

Certainly works better than pretending exact quotes don't exist.

If you find an exact quote from Timmy saying "I don't like Avery Johnson" from earlier than 2004, or an exact quote from someone in the Mavs organization saying "Avery Johnson was the only one that wanted Jason Kidd and he was willing to give up Devin Harris and a bunch of draft picks to get him.", consider your apology forthcoming.

[monosylab1k]

If you find an exact quote from Timmy saying "I don't like Avery Johnson" from earlier than 2004, or an exact quote from someone in the Mavs organization saying "Avery Johnson was the only one that wanted Jason Kidd and he was willing to give up Devin Harris and a bunch of draft picks to get him.", consider your apology forthcoming.

I'll never find the second because Avery wasn't the only one who wanted Kidd. Mark and Donnie did too.

[monosylab1k]

Here's an interesting read. I love me some rumors and half-truths.

http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/05/avery-continues-i-didnt-want-jason-kidd.html


Johnson began to complain early in the season that this team wouldn't go far unless it got a point guard it could trust. After that, Cuban probably pushed first and hardest for Kidd. Nelson went along with the owner. Johnson was in favor initially, but began to waver as the trade stopped and stalled. I was told in the end, Johnson felt the Mavericks gave up too much to acquire Kidd but was still on board with the deal.

[Obstructed_View]

here's an interesting read. I love me some rumors and half-truths.

http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/05/avery-continues-i-didnt-want-jason-kidd.html


debbol.

[LEONARD]

Solid thread...

[Red Hawk #21]

Updated: July 7, 2009, 12:13 PM ET
Sources: Johnson, Pistons can't agree
Comment Email Print Share
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com
Archive

Avery Johnson will not be the next coach of the Detroit Pistons.

The Detroit Pistons and the ESPN analyst broke off contract talks Tuesday after more than two days of negotiations, according to sources close to the process.

Sources told ESPN.com that the Pistons -- having paid both Flip Saunders and Michael Curry last season and still owing $5 million to Curry over the next two seasons -- were only willing to offer Johnson a two-year deal with a team option for a third season. It's believed that Johnson wanted no less than the security of a four-year contract, given where the Pistons are in the Eastern Conference hierarchy after a 39-43 season and the fact that Detroit is looking for its sixth coach in Joe Dumars' 10 seasons running the team's front office.

As ESPN.com reported late Monday, Dumars is now expected to turn to Cleveland Cavaliers assistant coach John Kuester to replace Curry. TNT analyst Doug Collins withdrew from consideration last week and the only other known candidate is Boston Celtics associate head coach Tom Thibodeau, but sources say that Kuester's offensive expertise and history with the Pistons after working as an assistant under Larry Brown appeal strongly to Dumars.

Marc Stein covers the NBA for ESPN.com.

/thread

[JamStone]

Good decision on both sides. Pistons didn't want to overpay on a contract longer than they were willing to give. And, Avery shouldn't budge on that because Mark Cuban is paying him $4 million a year for the next two years to sit on his ass.

I'm good with him not being the next Pistons coach. I think it was the right decision for both parties.

[Findog]

^ Pistons dodged a bullet.

[JamStone]

Perhaps, but it's not like there are any HOF coaches available. Even if the Pistons land one of the highly regarded assistant coaches, John Kuester or Tom Thibodeau, there ain't no guarantee they can hack it as a head coach. Eh, I would have been ok with Avery but I'm not distraught now that he's not the guy. I would still love Jeff Van Gundy to get a shot to coach the team. He's not being mentioned at all. Not even as a possible candidate, not once since Curry was fired.

[mavs>spurs2]

Looks like the only team who actually wanted Avery the past couple of years was even scared to commit longterm at all to him.

[monosylab1k]

It's obvious Avery could win a title with any team he takes over (as long as Dirk isn't there to choke it away). Avery knows what he's capable of, he goes through the process of interviewing for these jobs, but in the end he's the one who turns down the job. Because the only thing sweeter than winning multiple titles in a new town is continuing to take Mark Cuban's money.


Debbol.

[monosylab1k]

oh, and lol Avery

He and Joe Dumars were such close buddies (according to Avery), it's shocking he didn't get the job.

[monosylab1k]

rofl Spurs fans have no comment anymore.

[monosylab1k]

............................debbol.

[ElNono]

I don't think his abilities as a coach were the determining factor, were they?
He's just too expensive for the Pistons right now.

Plus you claimed he didn't get offered another HC job, and he indeed get that.

The only one lol'ing here is Avery every time he cashes in $4 million/year from Cubes.

debbol indeed.

[monosylab1k]

I don't think his abilities as a coach were the determining factor, were they?
He's just too expensive for the Pistons right now.

Plus you claimed he didn't get offered another HC job, and he indeed get that.

The only one lol'ing here is Avery every time he cashes in $4 million/year from Cubes.

debbol indeed.

Typical Spurfan response. No, he couldn't possibly have been outright rejected. It had to be because coaching would get in the way of taking money from Cuban. Suck on that, Mavfan!

[ElNono]

Typical Spurfan response. No, he couldn't possibly have been outright rejected. It had to be because coaching would get in the way of taking money from Cuban. Suck on that, Mavfan!

Straight from the horse mouth:

"Where we are as a team right now is where we were at the start of Rick Carlisle's era here," Dumars said. "We are in the same sort of transition mode. A $4 million to $5 million coach is not what we need right now."

LINK (http://www.detnews.com/article/20090708/SPORTS0102/907080354/Pistons-hire-John-Kuester-as-coach)

[monosylab1k]

Straight from the horse mouth:

"Where we are as a team right now is where we were at the start of Rick Carlisle's era here," Dumars said. "We are in the same sort of transition mode. A $4 million to $5 million coach is not what we need right now."

LINK (http://www.detnews.com/article/20090708/SPORTS0102/907080354/Pistons-hire-John-Kuester-as-coach)

Oh, so the plan is to fire Kuester once he takes the Pistons to the ECF, then bring in Avery to win the title. Gotcha. :lmao

[timvp]

lol Avery. Man he's so dumb for getting paid more to do mindless ESPN work rather than coach in the NBA. lol lol lol

[monosylab1k]

lol Avery. Man he's so dumb for getting paid more to do mindless ESPN work rather than coach in the NBA. lol lol lol

He's just biding his time until he inherits the Spurs, right? It's not like there's rumors out there that Tim Duncan can't stand him or anything.

[ElNono]

Oh, so the plan is to fire Kuester once he takes the Pistons to the ECF, then bring in Avery to win the title. Gotcha. :lmao

Ask Dumars, he's the one that said that. You know, the guy that wouldn't offer the HC job to Avery?... :lmao

[Obstructed_View]

oh, and lol Avery

He and Joe Dumars were such close buddies (according to Avery), it's shocking he didn't get the job.

He's obviously so desperate for a coaching job that he was going to take the first one that came along regardless of the money and the length of the contract....

What?

Whups.

And your original implication was that AJ wasn't even going to get the interview, and that he was just making it up. You failed the second he got the interview.

[monosylab1k]

He's obviously so desperate for a coaching job that he was going to take the first one that came along regardless of the money and the length of the contract....

ROFL this is like the 4th or 5th HC job he's been rejected for.

[monosylab1k]

And your original implication was that AJ wasn't even going to get the interview, and that he was just making it up.

fail again. My original implication was that Avery, in an attempt to prop himself up, once again felt the need to make up a complete fabrication like "Joe Dumars and I talk all the time" when in reality they hardly knew each other.

And it's actually pretty nice that he has a great fallback excuse of "I can just sit and take Cuban's money" every time he gets rejected. Not everybody has such a good excuse every time they fail.

[Obstructed_View]

ROFL this is like the 4th or 5th HC job he's been rejected for.

So your implication that he's an overrated pariah sort of breaks down when everybody keeps interviewing him. Again, the negotiations broke off because AJ wanted more money and/or a longer contract than Joe wanted to give. Not sure how that's "rejected".

[monosylab1k]

Not sure how that's "rejected".

Did he get the job or not?

[monosylab1k]

So your implication that he's an overrated pariah sort of breaks down when everybody keeps interviewing him.

except his former teammate Steve Kerr, who didn't even bother to interview him even after Avery expressed interest in the Suns job. But it's not like there's rumors that Avery's ego wore on people in the San Antonio locker room.

[Obstructed_View]

fail again. My original implication was that Avery, in an attempt to prop himself up, once again felt the need to make up a complete fabrication like "Joe Dumars and I talk all the time" when in reality they hardly knew each other.

So "reality" is a report by Mike Fisher citing a quote from Joe Dumars that Yahoo supposedly got but doesn't exist anywhere but Mark Cuban's personal misinformation service.


Rrrrright.

[monosylab1k]

So your implication that he's an overrated pariah sort of breaks down when everybody keeps interviewing him.

Doug Collins keeps getting interviews too. We all know how badass a coach he is.

[monosylab1k]

:cry :cry :cry

[Obstructed_View]

except his former teammate Steve Kerr, who didn't even bother to interview him even after Avery expressed interest in the Suns job. But it's not like there's rumors that Avery's ego wore on people in the San Antonio locker room.

So there's one. What about the other four or five? Why do they bother interviewing him? There's no Rooney rule in basketball.

Do you enjoy being a punching bag? Are all of your arguments this lame?

[monosylab1k]

:cry :cry :cry

[monosylab1k]

Doug Collins keeps getting interviews too. We all know how badass a coach he is.

[Obstructed_View]

So you resort to shitting on your own thread in a manner that you stole from Findog as soon as your argument breaks down. Nice.

[monosylab1k]

:cry :cry :cry

[DeadlyDynasty]

Avery Johnson sucks...the guy has no strategy...just motivational talk. The same can be said for Doc Rivers, Mike Brown, Mike Woodson, etc..

[ElNono]

LOL @ Doug Collins... he's not even getting a paycheck from Cubes. How lame is that?

[Obstructed_View]

I'm still waiting for the Yahoo story that has the quote from Dumars. The only place those words exist on the internets are in the dallasbasketball.com column. As a basketball writer, Mike Fisher sure knows about the Cowboys.