Confederate flag

[jcrod]

My father-n-law wanted to do something different for the fourth so we down to Port A. He has a big trailer, so we stayed at an RV park right off the beach. I didn’t expect to see so many confederate flags flying around and it wasn’t just at the park they were also flying them at the beach. Is this the norm, or just a fourth type of thing? It seemed everyone had a modified golf cart to drive around in and they had the flags attached to them. I really don’t understand people flying the confederate flag in this day in age. If you were from the civil war I can understand, but no one living now has anything to do with that flag.

Man the place was packed, doubt we ever do that again.

[Bender]

probably more of a non-conformist, seccessionist type of thing. Not an "I support slavery" thing.

[tp2021]

probably more of a non-conformist, seccessionist type of thing. Not an "I support slavery" thing.

Exactly. Just because someone has a confederate flag doesn't mean they support slavery. I for one don't fly it, but I love slaves.

[z0sa]

Most confederate flag owners will tell you, "It's about history, not hate."

I am not a confederate flag owner. I do my rallying behind the 50 stars and 13 stripes.

[ORION]

My father-n-law wanted to do something different for the fourth so we down to Port A. He has a big trailer, so we stayed at an RV park right off the beach. I didn’t expect to see so many confederate flags flying around and it wasn’t just at the park they were also flying them at the beach. Is this the norm, or just a fourth type of thing? It seemed everyone had a modified golf cart to drive around in and they had the flags attached to them. I really don’t understand people flying the confederate flag in this day in age. If you were from the civil war I can understand, but no one living now has anything to do with that flag.

Man the place was packed, doubt we ever do that again.
And I bet they were looking at you real funny. Did they keep calling you "boy" and spit tobacco everywhere?

[jcrod]

Most confederate flag owners will tell you, "It's about history, not hate."

I am not a confederate flag owner. I do my rallying behind the 50 stars and 13 stripes.

I get that some or most is not about pro slavery or racisim, but i don't get why they need to fly it for history. They should be flying the correct flag. When you're flying a huge as confederate flag and nothing else.....

[ORION]

probably more of a non-conformist, seccessionist type of thing. Not an "I support slavery" thing.
Or maybe a Dukes of Hazard fan rally

[jcrod]

And I bet they were looking at you real funny. Did they keep calling you "boy" and spit tobacco everywhere?

:lol Damnit, why did i know you were going to say something. Shit dude, I think i saw about a handful of hispanics. So you know, I stuck out like a sore thumb. I guess all the white people head to the beach for fourth.

[Extra Stout]

Slavery aside, the Confederate flag is the banner of white Anglo-Celtic Southern nationalism. It is one of the few flags found in America that is both regionally and ethnically specific.

[jcrod]

Slavery aside, the Confederate flag is the banner of white Anglo-Celtic Southern nationalism. It is one of the few flags found in America that is both regionally and ethnically specific.

You see, that is what i was getting. Nothing about history or Independence day.

[ORION]

:lol Damnit, why did i know you were going to say something. Shit dude, I think i saw about a handful of hispanics. So you know, I stuck out like a sore thumb. I guess all the white people head to the beach for fourth.
How else are they going to even out the redness?

[SonOfAGun]

Flag stands for states rights and limited federal government just as much as it stands for slavery and all that bullshit.

At least that's what I hear. I grew up thinking it was something racist so I always feel embarrassed to be around them.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I was at Port A on Saturday and didn't see any.

[jcrod]

I was at Port A on Saturday and didn't see any.

Maybe you weren't looking. I was by section 37, you?

[z0sa]

You see, that is what i was getting. Nothing about history or Independence day.

While I agree it has nothing to do with Independence Day, it has everything to do with history. Like another poster related, the flag doesn't really mean "White Power." It signifies ideals that have been largely forgotten, even on Independence Day. In pursuit of the American Dream, one may forget the many costs of keeping that Dream alive - which has included rising in force against our governors.

[blizz]

I was there and saw lots of em. I also saw a group that brought a pallet of sod, laid it down and put lawn chairs on it.

[leemajors]

While I agree it has nothing to do with Independence Day, it has everything to do with history. Like another poster related, the flag doesn't really mean "White Power." It signifies ideals that have been largely forgotten, even on Independence Day. In pursuit of the American Dream, one may forget the many costs of keeping that Dream alive - which has included rising in force against our governors.

It doesn't matter. At this point it has become stigmatized, much like the swastika.

[slacker77]

It doesn't matter. At this point it has become stigmatized, much like the swastika.

Exactly. Most people don't even know what the real history behind the swastika is and what it represents. The first thing that comes to mind for most people is ww2 and hitler.

[Cane]

It doesn't matter. At this point it has become stigmatized, much like the swastika.

+1

I'd also wager that most people who fly these kind of flags are pretty racist as well.

[manufan10]

http://www.confederatemercantile.com/confederate_flag.jpg

I don't see anything wrong with flying the flag. It symbolizes part of the history of our country. I don't think that all the people who fly this flag are racists. What if they had family members who fought in the Civil War? Independence Day is part of remembering things in our past that have helped us to remain a free country. I have no problems with people who fly the Confederate Flag.

[word]

90% of people wouldn't recognize the Confederate Flag if they saw it and would probably mistake it for Cuba. What people associate now with the 'confederate flag' is the 'stars and bars' or the battle flag, which is not the confederate flag.

This,is the confederate flag: http://www.sos.georgia.gov/archives/museum/images/flag_1861-1863.jpg

[manufan10]

That's the first national flag.. the stars got up to 11. From 1861-1863, that was the Confederate flag. In 1863-1865 the flag was the one I posted above.

[word]

You're wrong, The final Confederate flag has the 'blood stained banner' on the right side and incorporates the stars and bars on the upper left, but it's not the entire flag.

The battle flag that you posted has never been the national flag of the confederacy. Ever.

I see on google that it's actually the confederate navy jack, and was the flag of the Virginia Army. But nope, never the confederate flag.

Sorry. You fall into the 90%.

[samikeyp]

Word is correct.

Personally I don't see the flag as a symbol of racism. Sadly however, people who are racist like to use it for their purposes.

The problem I have with it is historical. It is a flag of a one-time enemy combatant. I would have the same problem with someone flying the Japanese Battle Flag.

[manufan10]

You're wrong, The final Confederate flag has the 'blood stained banner' on the right side and incorporates the stars and bars on the upper left, but it's not the entire flag.

The battle flag that you posted has never been the national flag of the confederacy. Ever.

I see on google that it's actually the confederate navy jack, and was the flag of the Virginia Army. But nope, never the confederate flag.

Sorry. You fall into the 90%.

I got my info from a book I read, so if it's wrong, then it's wrong.

The Confederate Battle Flag: America's Most Embattled Emblem

Also, I did post the wrong picture.. it's actually the battle flag in a sea of white.

[word]

Civil War fascinates me. 600,000 dead when our nation was just under 35 million.

wow But I understand the feelings of true southerners about the civil war. ( I don't consider Texas truely southern nor did Texas bear much of the brunt from that war. In fact, the only battle the union lost was in Texas ) but the Union absolutely ravaged the south, burned it down, terrorized it and treated it like shit for many years after. In some ways, still does. I fully understand their anger and disdain for 'yankees' to this day.

[manufan10]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/Frankie_117/800px-Confederate_National_Flag_sin.png

[jcrod]

It doesn't matter. At this point it has become stigmatized, much like the swastika.



The problem I have with it is historical. It is a flag of a one-time enemy combatant. I would have the same problem with someone flying the Japanese Battle Flag.

You see this is my point also.

You really can't separate it from white power or racism, even if you're not flying it for that reason. Which for me is still hard to believe, since about half of them are young. You put yourself in that category even if you're not, so if you really are not racist, you shouldn't fly it.

[word]

Thats the final naval flag. Add a red stripe verticle down the right side and you've got the final confederate flag.

I'm interested what book you got this information. No doubt from our fine public schools.

[Bender]

Flag stands for states rights and limited federal government just as much as it stands for slavery and all that bullshit.it's pretty much all about states' rights, and separateness from the Fed gov't.

I don't have a confed. flag. I think I have an old lynyrd skynyrd t-shirt though, that might have a partial flag on it.

[word]

You see this is my point also.

You really can't separate it from white power or racism, even if you're not flying it for that reason. Which for me is still hard to believe, since about half of them are young. You put yourself in that category even if you're not, so if you really are not racist, you shouldn't fly it.

This is if you believe the civil war was all about slavery, which there is plenty of argument that it was not, since Lincoln himself was not an abolishionist till forced to be during the primaries of 1864. Not everyone buys into the civil war being 'all about' slavery.

[jcrod]

the modified golf carts are new

back in my day, people drove big ass trucks with all sorts of flags (racist and otherwise) on them.

must be the high price of gas

Oh those were around also. The golf carts were mostly in the RV park, which they would drive to the beach also. I guess they use them to drive around the RV park instead of walking or driving their truck. Freaking amazing how much money they put in those damn things.

[z0sa]

90% of people wouldn't recognize the Confederate Flag if they saw it and would probably mistake it for Cuba. What people associate now with the 'confederate flag' is the 'stars and bars' or the battle flag, which is not the confederate flag.

This,is the confederate flag: http://www.sos.georgia.gov/archives/museum/images/flag_1861-1863.jpg



I knew this was coming :lol

The fact people use the war flag emboldens its nature, if you ask me.

[word]

I did not.

I grant that history is not an exact science, but at least we can all agree that we should be able to get the easy stuff.

Like Mexicans talking about how they've been repressed by Europeans, it's a little more complex than that one liner. It must be terrible to live in the skin of both the oppressed AND the oppressor. How do you choose sides, man ?

When you fill out the census I suppose....

[jcrod]

This is if you believe the civil war was all about slavery, which there is plenty of argument that it was not, since Lincoln himself was not an abolishionist till forced to be during the primaries of 1864. Not everyone buys into the civil war being 'all about' slavery.

That's beside the point, everyone knows the war was not all about keeping their slaves. But you can't separate it from racism, since its now mostly used by KKK, White supremacist, etc..

[DarkReign]

This is if you believe the civil war was all about slavery, which there is plenty of argument that it was not, since Lincoln himself was not an abolishionist till forced to be during the primaries of 1864. Not everyone buys into the civil war being 'all about' slavery.

Come one now, youre springing on a technicality, nothing more.

The Civil War was about the spread of slavery to the Missouri Territory. Fed said "No, slavery stays where it is currently." Southern States said "Bullshit, its up to the state to decide to have it or not."

In the end, it was about slavery as a state right.

Stop lawyering it up.

[jcrod]

Civil War fascinates me. 600,000 dead when our nation was just under 35 million.

wow But I understand the feelings of true southerners about the civil war. ( I don't consider Texas truely southern nor did Texas bear much of the brunt from that war. In fact, the only battle the union lost was in Texas ) but the Union absolutely ravaged the south, burned it down, terrorized it and treated it like shit for many years after. In some ways, still does. I fully understand their anger and disdain for 'yankees' to this day.

Sure i can understand their anger, if it was 100 yrs ago. Not now. Freaking war was over 150 yrs ago. No one flying that flag has any ties to it.

[samikeyp]

It wasn't all about slavery, but slavery was an issue.

This might help on the flag questions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America#Third_N ational_Flag_.28.22the_Blood_Stained_Banner.22.29

[word]

lawyering it up....

lol ....

[DarkReign]

lawyering it up....

lol ....

LOL...youre a lawyer arent you?

[word]

If you said that to me in person I'd beat your face in. I am a retired pilot. Well really not retired, I got sick, and am no longer medically qualified.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Maybe you weren't looking. I was by section 37, you?

I was actually out closer to Mustang Island Park than Port A.

[Wild Cobra]

It doesn't matter. At this point it has become stigmatized, much like the swastika.
Yep, by pundits with a political agenda, and a willing media that reports their thoughts without opposing opinion.


I'd also wager that most people who fly these kind of flags are pretty racist as well.
Drinking from the fountain of Kool-aid the liberals have I see. Which of the four types of lemmings are you?

I see the various forms of the Confederate Flag a symbol of states rights. Anything else read into it is just a persons own personification of it. It is understandable to wave it for the fourth, over the current flag, for the reason that states rights took a second seat to national rights when the south lost.

The Confederate Flag in my opinion is the true symbol of freedom, as it stands for all the constitution. Not the constitution -1 amendment.

[word]

The truth lies somewhere in between, Cobra.

[samikeyp]

Yep, by pundits with a political agenda, and a willing media that reports their thoughts without opposing opinion.

Drinking from the fountain of Kool-aid the liberals have I see. Which of the four types of lemmings are you?

I see the various forms of the Confederate Flag a symbol of states rights. Anything else read into it is just a persons own personification of it. It is understandable to wave it for the fourth, over the current flag, for the reason that states rights took a second seat to national rights when the south lost.

The Confederate Flag in my opinion is the true symbol of freedom, as it stands for all the constitution. Not the constitution -1 amendment.

That, I disagree with. IMO, an American should fly the US Flag on the the fourth and only the US flag. The great thing about living in the US however, is that if someone chooses to fly a CSA flag on the 4th, they have that right.

[Cane]

Yep, by pundits with a political agenda, and a willing media that reports their thoughts without opposing opinion.

Drinking from the fountain of Kool-aid the liberals have I see. Which of the four types of lemmings are you?

I see the various forms of the Confederate Flag a symbol of states rights. Anything else read into it is just a persons own personification of it. It is understandable to wave it for the fourth, over the current flag, for the reason that states rights took a second seat to national rights when the south lost.

The Confederate Flag in my opinion is the true symbol of freedom, as it stands for all the constitution. Not the constitution -1 amendment.

You must be one of the biggest idiots on this board. I have no probs with the first amendment but you're really nothing more than a troll and a lemming yourself.

[Das Texan]

This is if you believe the civil war was all about slavery, which there is plenty of argument that it was not, since Lincoln himself was not an abolishionist till forced to be during the primaries of 1864. Not everyone buys into the civil war being 'all about' slavery.


if it wasnt for the slave issue, the civil war doesnt happen in the 1860s. Slavery was THE issue already for some 40 years before the war between states.

everything else was just some ideas tied to slavery.


States rights was directly tied to slavery itself, slave owners in the South wanted to be able to take their slaves with them wherever they went like we would an auto today, without worrying about people in the North taking their personal property at will.

[Das Texan]

I'll say it now, I worded poorly the second part about some ideas being tied to slavery.


So dont go quoting it and going all ape shit on me now.

[word]

What's tragic, is the actual history of the civil war is lost in this modern 'fight'. I'm a big reader and I have two subjects that I read a lot about; Russian history and the US civil war. ( btw, as a side note..the Russians...crazier than shithouse rats. )

One of my favorite books about the civil war is the 'Civil War Diary's' which is nothing more than a compilation of letters from soldiers.

I can only say this:

WE are such incredible pussies it's not even funny. It's embarrassing. But, on the other hand, it's encouraging to read what a human being is capable of withstanding.

[MANGINA]

I don't like the rebel flag and stay clear of establishments that fly it.

[word]

I don't think I've even seen one that does, but if I did, curiousity would get the best of me. I'd have to stop.

[Das Texan]

Besides, that area of Texas can be considered part of the South anyway.


I mean generally anything east of Dallas and straight down you can argue is South.


Then I dont know what the fuck Dallas is, cause it isnt part of the West. :lol Oh I'm sure its part of the South also, I think cotton was grown in that area largely in the 19th century.

[Wild Cobra]

That, I disagree with. IMO, an American should fly the US Flag on the the fourth and only the US flag. The great thing about living in the US however, is that if someone chooses to fly a CSA flag on the 4th, they have that right.
Correct me if I'm wrong. I said it was understandable, didn't I?

Am I wrong? Did I say it way right?

What are you reading into my words?

[word]

if it wasnt for the slave issue, the civil war doesnt happen in the 1860s. Slavery was THE issue already for some 40 years before the war between states.

everything else was just some ideas tied to slavery.


States rights was directly tied to slavery itself, slave owners in the South wanted to be able to take their slaves with them wherever they went like we would an auto today, without worrying about people in the North taking their personal property at will.

Yet, when Lincoln abolished slavery, he only did so in the south, a 'territory' which he did not control, and allowed the northern slave states to engage in ....

slavery.

How do you get past that ?

[Bender]

the part that bugs me is that in public school teaching (ie PC) the Civil War was ONLY about the goody good north against the bad and evil south (slave owners).

It was more than that.

[Wild Cobra]

the part that bugs me is that in public school teaching (ie PC) the Civil War was ONLY about the goody good north against the bad and evil south (slave owners).

It was more than that.
Don't you love activism in education?

[mavs>spurs2]

I think for a lot of ppl it's more of a southern pride thing being proud of where you're from but it's still offensive as hell and there are still many racist rednecks who also fly it making it hard to discern between the two

[Das Texan]

Yet, when Lincoln abolished slavery, he only did so in the south, a 'territory' which he did not control, and allowed the northern slave states to engage in ....

slavery.

How do you get past that ?

Well considering the Civil War had already begun.....


And I was talking about slavery being the root cause for why the Civil War happened in the 1860s...


I really dont see how this applies to anything. But ok.


Good job in reading comprehension though.

[MANGINA]

i think for a lot of ppl it's more of a southern pride thing being proud of where you're from but it's still offensive as hell and there are still many racist rednecks who also fly it making it hard to discern between the two

+1

[samikeyp]

Correct me if I'm wrong. I said it was understandable, didn't I?

Am I wrong? Did I say it way right?

What are you reading into my words?

I read your words for exactly what they were. I didn't say you were right or wrong and I didn't say you said either one.

I was only voicing my opinion, as were you, on a part of something you said. Period.

[word]

the part that bugs me is that in public school teaching (ie PC) the Civil War was ONLY about the goody good north against the bad and evil south (slave owners).

It was more than that.

One of countless reasons to not put your kid in public education. My son went to private schools from 12 years old on, when the public 'schools' start endoctrinating. Even though his mother and I despise each other, we certainly agreed on keeping him out of the public schools system, and it payed off, big.

[Wild Cobra]

I think for a lot of ppl it's more of a southern pride thing being proud of where you're from but it's still offensive as hell and there are still many racist rednecks who also fly it making it hard to discern between the two
It's all in your head. If you see it as a symbol of slavery, then that's your problem. Please don't push your problems on me. I see a larger problem when someone harasses others for exercising their freedom.

Who is the patriot?

The man who flies the flag, or the man who wants to take that right away from him?

[JoeChalupa]

One of countless reasons to not put your kid in public education. My son went to private schools from 12 years old on, when the public 'schools' start endoctrinating. Even though his mother and I despise each other, we certainly agreed on keeping him out of the public schools system, and it payed off, big.

That is why we also teach History to our kids since it is amazing all the facts that kids simply don't learn anymore. Even in private schools.

[Wild Cobra]

I read your words for exactly what they were. I didn't say you were right or wrong and I didn't say you said either one.

I was only voicing my opinion, as were you, on a part of something you said. Period.
Yes, we were both voicing our opinion. Sorry about my words the way they were, but I did take it as you saying my opinion wasn't valid. After thinking more about it, I don't think you were. You have my apologies.

[mavs>spurs2]

It's all in your head. If you see it as a symbol of slavery, then that's your problem. Please don't push your problems on me. I see a larger problem when someone harasses others for exercising their freedom.

Who is the patriot?

The man who flies the flag, or the man who wants to take that right away from him?

Except it is a symbol of slavery. The very people who that flag represents fought a bloody war in an attempt to preserve slavery. I'm not saying you shouldn't have the right to fly it, I'm saying that people may look at you as a piece of shit and rightfully so.

[JoeChalupa]

It's all in your head. If you see it as a symbol of slavery, then that's your problem. Please don't push your problems on me. I see a larger problem when someone harasses others for exercising their freedom.

Who is the patriot?

The man who flies the flag, or the man who wants to take that right away from him?

I wish it were all just in our heads but the wife and I have learned from personal experience that it isn't always just in our heads. I do not wish to take anyone's rights away at all.

[ChumpDumper]

Who is the patriot?

The man who flies the flag, or the man who wants to take that right away from him?Is that all it takes to be a patriot?

Putting a piece of cloth on a stick?

[Wild Cobra]

I wish it were all just in our heads but the wife and I have learned from personal experience that it isn't always just in our heads. I do not wish to take anyone's rights away at all.
I know there are people who do use it as a symbol of white pride. I disagree with using it that way, but any symbol can be used in ways others disagree with. Should the fact that some (maybe all) white supremacists use it as a symbol or white superiority, define it for everyone?

Again, it's in people's own head when they conclude that.

[ChumpDumper]

Seriously, put a cloth on a stick that says "states' rights" and don't confuse yourselves with racists -- unless of course you are racist. In that case, fly the stars and bars proudly, patriot.

[Wild Cobra]

Is that all it takes to be a patriot?

Putting a piece of cloth on a stick?
Can you stop being a chump for once, and try to understand what I meant?

If you take two people, as I described, who is the man who believes more in freedom, based on what we know?

[word]

+1

I have never spent a lot of time the 'country' south. I have been to the urban south which is the same as any urban city much like all suburbs are the same. They look the same, have the same stores, same restaurants...

What little I've seen of 'country' south, kinda freaked me out.

[word]

Besides, that area of Texas can be considered part of the South anyway.


I mean generally anything east of Dallas and straight down you can argue is South.




Noo..almost...but along the La border in aboot, 100 miles..that's where the south begins. Waxahachie.....is not the south.

lol ....

[ChumpDumper]

Can you stop being a chump for once, and try to understand what I meant?

If you take two people, as I described, who is the man who believes more in freedom, based on what we know?I don't believe anyone has stated a desire to take away or ban flags. Patriots are free to question people's intent and draw conclusions based on the pieces of cloth they choose to put on sticks.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't believe anyone has stated a desire to take away or ban flags. Patriots are free to question people's intent and draw conclusions based on the pieces of cloth they choose to put on sticks.
Would you agree there are those who want to take away the rights of those who want to flay the confederate flag?

[ChumpDumper]

I know there are people who do use it as a symbol of white pride. I disagree with using it that way, but any symbol can be used in ways others disagree with. Should the fact that some (maybe all) white supremacists use it as a symbol or white superiority, define it for everyone?Tough shit. It happened with the swastika and burning crosses and hammers and sickles too.

Is there really no other way to express support of a states' rights doctrine?

[word]

That is why we also teach History to our kids since it is amazing all the facts that kids simply don't learn anymore. Even in private schools.

We sent my son to a school that teaches math and sciences almost exclusively. It wasn't that we wanted so much to keep him away from what they ( public schools ) WERE doing...but more keeping him away from what they WEREN'T doing.

No one ever built anything of value with a liberal arts degree. Okay, that's a little strong, but....

[JoeChalupa]

I know there are people who do use it as a symbol of white pride. I disagree with using it that way, but any symbol can be used in ways others disagree with. Should the fact that some (maybe all) white supremacists use it as a symbol or white superiority, define it for everyone?

Again, it's in people's own head when they conclude that.

I understand your point of view and I agree that not everyone uses it as a symbol of white pride but I/we've come to the conclusion, again based on personal experience, that it truly does stand for racism for some and that again is a "conclusion" that is not simply in my head. But again I understand your point and I agree with it for the most part but I don't agree that it is "just in your head" most of the time.

[Wild Cobra]

What little I've seen of 'country' south, kinda freaked me out.
Probably similar to my experiences in NE Portland.

I've been seeing this black girl for a few weeks now. I'm not comfortable with the way some people look at us. I'm the only white guy in most of these places.

[ChumpDumper]

Would you agree there are those who want to take away the rights of those who want to flay the confederate flag?Would you agree that that is a straw man for the purposes of this thread?

[Wild Cobra]

I understand your point of view and I agree that not everyone uses it as a symbol of white pride but I/we've come to the conclusion, again based on personal experience, that it truly does stand for racism for some and that again is a "conclusion" that is not simply in my head. But again I understand your point and I agree with it for the most part but I don't agree that it is "just in your head" most of the time.
So you are as prejudiced as the whites who take second glances and concerns about blacks, because of crime statistics.

[JoeChalupa]

We sent my son to a school that teaches math and sciences almost exclusively. It wasn't that we wanted so much to keep him away from what they WERE doing...but more keeping him away from what they WEREN'T doing.

No one ever built anything of value with a liberal arts degree.

I hear ya but I've known some who have built a great human being and career with a liberal arts degree.

[Wild Cobra]

Would you agree that that is a straw man for the purposes of this thread?
Straw man or not, it is a valid question. I take it you are refusing to answer a simple question. You know I'm right. Would it kill you to agree?

[JoeChalupa]

So you are as prejudiced as the whites who take second glances and concerns about blacks, because of crime statistics.

You got me there and I do admit that it is wrong for me to feel that way but my life experience has made me feel that way and it isn't always easy to forget. I'm guilty but not without reason. Not that it makes it any better.

[word]

Probably similar to my experiences in NE Portland.

I've been seeing this black girl for a few weeks now. I'm not comfortable with the way some people look at us. I'm the only white guy in most of these places.

Hangout someplace else.

[word]

You got me there and I do admit that it is wrong for me to feel that way but my life experience has made me feel that way and it isn't always easy to forget. I'm guilty but not without reason. Not that it makes it any better.

Most prejudicies are not without reason. Human beings are flawed you know. Doesn't matter what their skin color is.

[Spurminator]

If'n you don't love America, why don't you jest GIT OUT?

[ChumpDumper]

Straw man or not, it is a valid question. I take it you are refusing to answer a simple question. You know I'm right. Would it kill you to agree?I already said putting a piece of cloth on a stick does not make one a patriot.

So you are wrong and I do not agree with you.

Neither person in your example can be declared a patriot given your meager facts.

[JoeChalupa]

Most prejudicies are not without reason. Human beings are flawed you know. Doesn't matter what their skin color is.

I concur and that is why racism will always exist.

[word]

and one joe chalupa...

all one can do is the best they can in their own heart...

[JoeChalupa]

and one joe chalupa...

all one can do is the best they can in their own heart...

:tu :tu

[mookie2001]

the confederate flag?
live in the now

only the biggest taints in america sport that shit, even in victoria its universally scoffed

said it before, TEXAS is not the south, its texas, nobody flys the french or spanish flag

people from the south are lame as hell, they care more about the "south" than the state they live in, virginas the south= mayland and tennesse and we all know nobody gives a shit about those shitholes


and even if you were win the argument about history states rights (which we're all for), it makes a bold cultural statement that you are an ingorant racist piece of shit from a state where they cant BBQ

the only bigger joke is the argentina flag, go back to esmegma blanca and georgia

[Spurminator]

What percentage of people sporting CF's on their trucks do you suppose DON'T get annoyed when they hear people speaking Spanish? 7%? 8%?

[ChumpDumper]

What percentage of people sporting CF's on their trucks do you suppose DON'T get annoyed when they hear people speaking Spanish? 7%? 8%?They will be very happy to respect Texas' right as a state to make Spanish the official language in a few years.

[word]

the confederate flag?
live in the now

only the biggest taints in america sport that shit, even in victoria its universally scoffed

said it before, TEXAS is not the south, its texas, nobody flys the french or spanish flag

people from the south are lame as hell, they care more about the "south" than the state they live in, virginas the south= mayland and tennesse and we all know nobody gives a shit about those shitholes


and even if you were win the argument about history states rights (which we're all for), it makes a bold cultural statement that you are an ingorant racist piece of shit from a state where they cant BBQ

the only bigger joke is the argentina flag, go back to esmegma blanca and georgia
Texas is one of the handful of states that its identity is nearly as strong as it's national identity. Texas, California, and New York are states that are all their own in many ways. Texas, is unique followed by Cali. NY represents the east...NYC is a world class city.

addendum: this is what makes Texas unique. It's almost all privately owned. No guvment land, or little, in Texas. That's where the individualism and 'land owner' rights comes from and that is at the core of the differences between capitalsim and sociolism. The means of production. Land. You think the state of Texas owns the water you drink ? Think again my friend. They BUY it and sell it to you through SAWS and BEXARMET. Check out the people that sell water to BEXARMET. It's just a handful of people...

Oil...pffft...

WATER is the new oil.

[jcrod]

They will be very happy to respect Texas' right as a state to make Spanish the official language in a few years.

:lol

[samikeyp]

TEXAS is not the south, its texas

Amen.

[ORION]

:lol
See what you started

[word]

They will be very happy to respect Texas' right as a state to make Spanish the official language in a few years.

San Antonio is not Texas. Texas is not America. Get out of yourself for a moment, even if you have to imagine it. People tend to hang out with people like them, so they think most people are like them. *buzzer*.

[ChumpDumper]

San Antonio is not Texas. Texas is not America. Get out of yourself for a moment, even if you have to imagine it. People tend to hang out with people like them, so they think most people are like them. *buzzer*.So you're saying all the whites will move out of Texas at that point so they can hang out together?

That sarcasm FAQ link is around here somewhere....

[word]

So you're saying all the whites will move out of Texas at that point so they can hang out together?

That sarcasm FAQ link is around here somewhere....

So you're saying that historical truth is the same as the cultural truth that is portrayed by modern art and pop culture ?

( could I hit any more buzzwords if I TRIED...)

Listen up chumpdumper, you've appropriately named yourself, which is no doubt the only right thing you've ever done.

Just leave it at that.

[ChumpDumper]

So you're saying that historical truth is the same as the cultural truth that is portrayed by modern art and pop culture ?

( could I hit any more buzzwords if I TRIED...)

Listen up chumpdumper, you've appropriately named yourself, which is no doubt the only right thing you've ever done.

Just leave it at that.Eh, I really don't know where you're going with this.

I made a joke about folks who display rebel flags. If you would like me to deconstruct it for you to explain it fully, I guess I could -- but that would be even less funny than the joke was in the first place.

[Wild Cobra]

Hangout someplace else.
It's only been a couple times these last several weeks that we have gone to such places. I usually take he places near where I live in SE Portland.

[Wild Cobra]

I concur and that is why racism will always exist.I say racism will always exist as long as the members of a particular race don't police their own actions.

The Jacksons and Sharptons of this world need to stop blaming the white man, and blame their own people for presenting themselves so poorly to the rest of us.

[Sec24Row7]

Texas is one of the handful of states that its identity is nearly as strong as it's national identity. Texas, California, and New York are states that are all their own in many ways. Texas, is unique followed by Cali. NY represents the east...NYC is a world class city.

addendum: this is what makes Texas unique. It's almost all privately owned. No guvment land, or little, in Texas. That's where the individualism and 'land owner' rights comes from and that is at the core of the differences between capitalsim and sociolism. The means of production. Land. You think the state of Texas owns the water you drink ? Think again my friend. They BUY it and sell it to you through SAWS and BEXARMET. Check out the people that sell water to BEXARMET. It's just a handful of people...

Oil...pffft...

WATER is the new oil.

Water is what Oil wishes it could be... find me an alternative water...

[Das Texan]

Texas is one of the handful of states that its identity is nearly as strong as it's national identity. Texas, California, and New York are states that are all their own in many ways. Texas, is unique followed by Cali. NY represents the east...NYC is a world class city.

addendum: this is what makes Texas unique. It's almost all privately owned. No guvment land, or little, in Texas. That's where the individualism and 'land owner' rights comes from and that is at the core of the differences between capitalsim and sociolism. The means of production. Land. You think the state of Texas owns the water you drink ? Think again my friend. They BUY it and sell it to you through SAWS and BEXARMET. Check out the people that sell water to BEXARMET. It's just a handful of people...

Oil...pffft...

WATER is the new oil.

wake me when a water lease brings in more $$$$ than an oil lease to the landowner.

[word]

I say racism will always exist as long as the members of a particular race don't police their own actions.

The Jacksons and Sharptons of this world need to stop blaming the white man, and blame their own people for presenting themselves so poorly to the rest of us.

Problem solved !!

But seriously, a lot of people, most people, see through the charlatans and the agent provacateur types. They go along with it if it fits their needs. They may not be able to put it into words, but they know it when they see it.

This behaviour exists all around. It's a human behavior that hasn't change since the bible or before history was recorded. In politics it's especially noticable. It's human nature. Granted, at it's worse, or...at it's finest. It is a very fine line.

My biggest dissapointment these days, and what makes me lose faith, is the cult of personality over ideas, experience, common sense.

Eventually we'll elect a hanna montana president at this rate.

Miley Cyrus 2012.

Yeah

[word]

wake me when a water lease brings in more $$$$ than an oil lease to the landowner.

get a clue

[CuckingFunt]

Who is the patriot?

The man who flies the flag, or the man who wants to take that right away from him?

I must have missed the post in which someone suggested people no longer be allowed to fly the Confederate flag.

[Wild Cobra]

Eventually we'll elect a hanna montana president at this rate.

Miley Cyrus 2012.

Yeah
Too bad she wont be old enough then. She would definitely be a better president than the one we have now.

[Wild Cobra]

I must have missed the post in which someone suggested people no longer be allowed to fly the Confederate flag.
Call it a preemptive strike. I haven't seen it in this thread either, but I expect it could come. I believe is was in a thread a year of so ago.

My whole point is that anyone who advocates forcing people not to fly the Confederate Flag, wishes to infringe on their rights, and that is clearly obvious. It is not clear than someone who wishes to fly that flag is a racist.

[CuckingFunt]

I say racism will always exist as long as the members of a particular race don't police their own actions.

The Jacksons and Sharptons of this world need to stop blaming the white man, and blame their own people for presenting themselves so poorly to the rest of us.

That's a great philosophy for a world in which everyone is on an even playing field, however, that simply isn't the way it is.

Systemic racism and individual prejudice will always exist as long as it remains financially advantageous for one group of people to set themselves apart from a constructed "other."

[Wild Cobra]

That's a great philosophy for a world in which everyone is on an even playing field, however, that simply isn't the way it is.

Systemic racism and individual prejudice will always exist as long as it remains financially advantageous for one group of people to set themselves apart from a constructed "other."
And as long as one race has more than ten times as many who act like animals. people will fear them.

[CuckingFunt]

And as long as one race has more than ten times as many who act like animals. people will fear them.

Wow.

Just... wow.

[Wild Cobra]

Wow.

Just... wow.
I should have specified criminal activity. The black population does commit far more crimes than whites as a percentage.

[mookie2001]

youre afraid of black people wc?

[Wild Cobra]

youre afraid of black people wc?
Generally not. I see situations that I feel could be threatening with people of all races at times. I do feel that way far more often around blacks, but it's all in the way a person carries themselves.

Here is an interesting read from the Department of Justice:

Racial differences exist, with blacks disproportionately represented among homicide victims and offenders (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm)

One graph:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/orace.png

[bendmz]

:sombrero:
They will be very happy to respect Texas' right as a state to make Spanish the official language in a few years.

It has already started, there is a border town that has mqade spanish its official town language. it's just a matter of time......

[Das Texan]

get a clue



ok whats the going rate for bonus money on a water lease in a 'hot area'.


whats the going rate for royalty on a water lease in a 'hot area'.



i assume water leases use the same basic premises as an oil and gas lease.

[CuckingFunt]

I should have specified criminal activity. The black population does commit far more crimes than whites as a percentage.


Generally not. I see situations that I feel could be threatening with people of all races at times. I do feel that way far more often around blacks, but it's all in the way a person carries themselves.

Here is an interesting read from the Department of Justice:

Racial differences exist, with blacks disproportionately represented among homicide victims and offenders (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm)

One graph:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/orace.png

I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that cultures of color have for generations been intentionally and systemically denied access to jobs and education, right?

It would be foolish to pretend that the crime rate isn't higher in marginalized neighborhoods or within marginalized communities. However, it's willfully ignorant, and dangerously so, to assume that difference is natural or inherent. It isn't.

[Wild Cobra]

I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that cultures of color have for generations been intentionally and systemically denied access to jobs and education, right?
Part of it is, and it's one of those "vicious circles." If poverty were equal among all races, the the crime rates I think would equalize. How do you do that though? People who live a marginal life often don't have the personal motivation to better themselves. Blaming whites for the past is also self defeating. It becomes an excuse for one not to stand on their own two feet.

It would be foolish to pretend that the crime rate isn't higher in marginalized neighborhoods or within marginalized communities. However, it's willfully ignorant, and dangerously so, to assume that difference is natural or inherent. It isn't.
I don't assume it's because of race. It just that race and poverty are complementary. To say that people commit more crimes because they are black, and leaving it as that, is about as informed as saying CO2 causes Global Warming, when global warming is the cause if increased CO2 levels. I would say that blacks commit more crimes because of poverty and lack of motivation to accel. Not because they are inherently inferior. However, the fact they commit more crimes makes them appear to be inferior.

[baseline bum]

Exactly. Most people don't even know what the real history behind the swastika is and what it represents. The first thing that comes to mind for most people is ww2 and hitler.

Yeah, that's pretty sad that a symbol that has been used for thousands of years as a sign of good luck or good will was corrupted by that fuck.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Black people are awesome.

[Dark Gable]

And as long as one race has more than ten times as many who act like animals. people will fear them.

You mean like serial killers and child abductors?

[Dark Gable]

I say racism will always exist as long as the members of a particular race don't police their own actions.

The Jacksons and Sharptons of this world need to stop blaming the white man, and blame their own people for presenting themselves so poorly to the rest of us.

Racism will also always exist because it is TAUGHT everyday.

[Extra Stout]

The Gadsden flag is a far more effective symbol than any of the Confederate flags for what the proponents of the latter claim that they want it represent.

[DarkReign]

If you said that to me in person I'd beat your face in. I am a retired pilot. Well really not retired, I got sick, and am no longer medically qualified.

:lmao Dont get touchy.

[resistanze]

The Jacksons and Sharptons of this world need to stop blaming the white man, and blame their own people for presenting themselves so poorly to the rest of us.

:lmao

This guy has to be a troll.

[Extra Stout]

:lmao

This guy has to be a troll.
He's actually not a troll; he's kind of a milder version of the Unabomber.

[Homeland Security]

I support flying the Confederate flag for the following reasons:

1) Liberals hate it
2) Just because the communist government passes some stupid "Civil Rights Act" doesn't mean I have to accept black people as my equals.
3) I hate being taxed to support worthless poor people. If they mattered, they wouldn't be poor.
4) The Confederacy held a lot of the same ideals I do

[NASCARdad]

i support flying the confederate flag for the following reasons:

1) liberals hate it
2) just because the communist government passes some stupid "civil rights act" doesn't mean i have to accept black people as my equals.
3) i hate being taxed to support worthless poor people. If they mattered, they wouldn't be poor.
4) the confederacy held a lot of the same ideals i do

+1

[Wild Cobra]

The Gadsden flag is a far more effective symbol than any of the Confederate flags for what the proponents of the latter claim that they want it represent.
I disagree in the aspect that we didn't have the tenth amendment yet.

Besides, the Confederate second Naval Jack was widely flown during WWII.

[Wild Cobra]

I support flying the Confederate flag for the following reasons:

1) Liberals hate it
2) Just because the communist government passes some stupid "Civil Rights Act" doesn't mean I have to accept black people as my equals.
3) I hate being taxed to support worthless poor people. If they mattered, they wouldn't be poor.
4) The Confederacy held a lot of the same ideals I do
Well, scratch #2 and I can agree.

[Wild Cobra]

He's actually not a troll; he's kind of a milder version of the Unabomber.
Wow... Just because I speak my mind? You are way off base there.