Where would the Lakers stand if Odom were to Bolt?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

All Laker fans (and non-Laker fans I guess, either way try to remain unbiased), how good do you think LA would still be if Odom were to leave? I really have no idea, I just think it's an interesting question.

[iggypop123]

we would sign antonio mcdyess

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

we would sign antonio mcdyess


And you seriously think he would effectively replace Odom?

[xtremesteven33]

Odom/Ariza > Artest

hell.....

Odom>Artest

[DPG21920]

If you do not do the Ron/Ariza trade, you cannot sign McDyess, you will have no MLE.

If the Lakers lose both Ariza/Odom and replace them with Ron/... they will still be a very good team, but they will fall behind Boston and Cleveland. They will still be ahead of the Spurs and Orlando.

[IronMexican]

I'd be pissed.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

If the Lakers lose both Ariza/Odom and replace them with Ron/... they will still be a very good team, but they will fall behind Boston and Cleveland. They will still be ahead of the Spurs and Orlando.

That seems reasonable, my question is Denver.

[rayray2k8]

I'd say they were lucky to sign Artest..
But I still think they'll clear some cap space with a few moves to sign Odom.

[DPG21920]

Denver is behind SA and LA no matter what unless they make a nice FA/Trade pickup.

[Gino]

Holy crap...DOK started a thread that isnt about me.

I will play ball...


Losing Odom would have a HUGE negative effect.

1) He's their best rebounder

2) Allows the Lakers to stay big when Bynum inevitably gets into foul trouble

3) Has the omnipresence attribute that every championship team needs.

4) Makes Gasol better.

I think the Lakers without Ariza and Odom (even adding Artest) would have probably folded against that same Magic or Denver team last year. Take into account the Spurs, Magic, Cavs and especially the Celtics will all be better next year.

If the Lakers lose Odom, they are finished. I wouldnt pick them to even come out of the west.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Denver is behind SA and LA no matter what unless they make a nice FA/Trade pickup.


Or unless one of their big men learns how to create his own shot, not a very likely scenario.

[IronMexican]

If the Lakers can't re0sign LO, I'd try and get Ariza and Ron.

[DPG21920]

Powell has been in the league for a little bit. I have seen him play and know what he can do. There is a huge difference knowing you will be just an energy/spot minute guy who can knock down shots vs. being a primary back up and having a major role on a team trying to repeat.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with Gino.

[DPG21920]

KMart is not getting any younger or better, they need to find someone productive in that role as a PF. They also need a back up SF if LK cannot fit in. Depending on how Lawson does, the pg situation is not ideal, but I think it will be ok.

[Gino]

Powell has been in the league for a little bit. I have seen him play and know what he can do. There is a huge difference knowing you will be just an energy/spot minute guy who can knock down shots vs. being a primary back up and having a major role on a team trying to repeat.

Odom was a "backup" in name only.

Fourth quarter, he was in the whole time making big play after big play while Bynum rode the pine.

Is anyone really worried about a Gasol, Bynum, Artest front line?

Gasol is a hell of an offensive player, but every team in the league will eat him up the minute Bynum gets his second foul.

[Gino]

Uh-Oh....Cubby is here!!!!

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Odom was the 3rd best player on LA last year, no 6th man at all.

[IronMexican]

If this does happen, Bynum better be ready to step up.

[DPG21920]

Who said he was a 6th man? That would be Powell's role however...

[TheMACHINE]

no odom is a big blow to our versitility and depth. Just hope we can sign someone who can "kinda" replace his skills.

In regards to being "Lucky" to sign Artest...you must be kidding. lol

[cdcast]

If the Lakers can't re0sign LO, I'd try and get Ariza and Ron.

Ariza's having second thoughts about signing with Rockets- Ric Bucher twitter

[DPG21920]

There would be no one the Lakers can sign to make up for the loss of Odom. Especially as things stand today with no MLE. If the Lakers lose Odom and they do not work out a trade sign and trade with the Rockets for Artest, they will only have the LLE to replace Odom.


Have fun.

[hater]

judging by the fact that they had trouble with an injury riddled Houston Rockets. Without Odom, their engine, I'd say they stand:

1. Celtics
2. Cavs
3. Spurs
4. Lakers

[DPG21920]

Look at this depth chart minus Odom as things stand today:

PG: Fish, Brown, Farmar - Was the biggest problem for the Lakers last year, will continue to be next year.

SG: Kobe, Sasha - You have Kobe, so you are fine, but he will have to log major minutes because the depth here is terrible.

SF: Artest, Luke Walton, Adam Morrison, Sun Yue, LLE Player - Not terrible, but not great.

PF: Pau Gasol, Josh Powell - Not bad at all. Not a ton of depth, but Gasol is excellent and Powell is useful.

C: Bynum, Gasol, Mbenga - Kind of risky with Bynum's health concerns, but could turn out fine. Once again, not a lot of depth.

That does not appear to be a championship team if all of this comes to fruition. If they lose Odom and do a Sign and Trade with the Rockets, it will look better because they will have the MLE to sign another solid player.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

^you're forgetting Artest DPG.

[DPG21920]

Fixed..

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

basically they would have one of the best starting lineups in the NBA and their bench would be turrible.

[Kobe™]

Hard to say, I'd think if Lakers knew LO would be asking for too much they would try to do an S&T with Houston to save the MLE, then use it to get a big.


But, barring any astronomical offer to Lamar, he's staying a Laker.

[weebo]

No Odom means lakers have no bench. This pretty much will be the nail in the coffin for a laker repeat.

[DPG21920]

If that is the case Kobe, as a Spurs fan, I will definitely take an Ariza/Odom for Artest/MLE Big swap.

That would put the Spurs pretty damn close to the Lakers as they stand today. Then if they make another trade or sign a nice big, it will be even or put the Spurs ahead.

[DPG21920]

basically they would have one of the best starting lineups in the NBA and their bench would be turrible.

Except the PG starter would be very shaky and they lose a nice player who can handle the ball in Odom.

[Spursmania]

There's not a scintilla of a doubt that Odom is needed for any hope of a repeat. Without Odom, the West would be wide open.

But we can all stop guessing, you know LA will sign Odom they are not dumbasses.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The rest of the league is really lucky LA has money locked up with several crappy players. If they didn't have Walton, Vujacic and Morrison on the books, they would have probably been able to resign Ariza, Odom and Brown and sign Artest. Thank god for Mitch's stupidity.

[TheMACHINE]

The rest of the league is really lucky LA has money locked up with several crappy players. If they didn't have Walton, Vujacic and Morrison on the books, they would have probably been able to resign Ariza, Odom and Brown and sign Artest. Thank god for Mitch's stupidity.

:lol:rollin:lobt2::lobt:

[DPG21920]

I agree that they will sign Odom. But Odom has the Lakers by the balls and his agent knows it. He will get his money. They cannot play hardball with him like they did Ariza.

[TheMACHINE]

I agree that they will sign Odom. But Odom has the Lakers by the balls and his agent knows it. He will get his money. They cannot play hardball with him like they did Ariza.

Mitch knows what he's doing. He and Odom will agree on something and both party's will be happy.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:lol:rollin:lobt2::lobt:

If you think that comment is just blind hating and you're trying to hint at that, Mitch is not a good GM, I'm not trying to take away from what LA did, but Mitch isn't a good GM, plain and simple.

Yes, the Gasol trade was nice, but it doesn't take any skill to take advantage of a team that needs to cut payroll. it takes being GM of a team with a great owner who wants to win. The jury is still out on the Bynum pick.

[DPG21920]

Mitch has absolutely no power here. There is no "Artest for the same type of money" to replace Odom like Ariza.

Mitch does know what he is doing and that is why he will pay Odom everything he wants and Odom will be happy and throw a party.

[IronMexican]

Mitch is a decent GM. For moves like Trevow Ariza and Pau Gasol, he gives Sasha Vujacic, Luke Walton, and Vlad 5 million.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I admit the Trevor Ariza deal was a savvy move and I'm still scratching my head as to why Orlando gave up on him when he was so young.

[TheMACHINE]

If you think that comment is just blind hating and you're trying to hint at that, Mitch is not a good GM, I'm not trying to take away from what LA did, but Mitch isn't a good GM, plain and simple.

Yes, the Gasol trade was nice, but it doesn't take any skill to take advantage of a team that needs to cut payroll. it takes being GM of a team with a great owner who wants to win. The jury is still out on the Bynum pick.


We got a ring with the pieces he got. Not every GM is perfect, but your basing your Mitch bashing on a Odom resigning that hasnt even taked palce yet. What if all of a sudden Odom does sign for 9 mill. Will you change your mind? To me its a dumb statement to make after he put together a team that won a championship....especially being a Suns fan who really knows what a dumb GM is. Mitch is a good GM, plain and simple.

[Cry Havoc]

I cannot fathom the Lakers not re-signing Odom.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

We got a ring with the pieces he got. Not every GM is perfect, but your basing your Mitch bashing on a Odom resigning that hasnt even taked palce yet. What if all of a sudden Odom does sign for 9 mill. Will you change your mind? To me its a dumb statement to make after he put together a team that won a championship....especially being a Suns fan who really knows what a dumb GM is. Mitch is a good GM, plain and simple.

Jeez I couldn't see a cheap shot about the Suns coming :rolleyes

I think Odom is going to resign. I'm basing the Mitch thing off the contracts he gave certain players. I guess that I'm wrong since his biggest weakness is over paying players which isn't an issue with Buss as the owner.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

We got a ring with the pieces he got.


Some pieces. He didn't get the biggest piece. My previous statement was probably wrong, he's a good, decent GM, he's just not a GREAT GM. It's not like he built that team from the ground up.

[TheMACHINE]

Some pieces. He didn't get the biggest piece. My previous statement was probably wrong, he's a good, decent GM, he's just not a GREAT GM. It's not like he built that team from the ground up.

I have no problem with people syaing he is a good GM, not a great GM, but to say "Mitch isn't a good GM, plain and simple" was a bit much.

[TheMACHINE]

Some pieces. He didn't get the biggest piece. My previous statement was probably wrong, he's a good, decent GM, he's just not a GREAT GM. It's not like he built that team from the ground up.

what would you consider ground up? Just beacuse he didnt get Kobe in 96, we have to say he didnt built this team?

[jonnybravo]

Holy crap...DOK started a thread that isnt about me.

I will play ball...


Losing Odom would have a HUGE negative effect.

1) He's their best rebounder

2) Allows the Lakers to stay big when Bynum inevitably gets into foul trouble

3) Has the omnipresence attribute that every championship team needs.

4) Makes Gasol better.

I think the Lakers without Ariza and Odom (even adding Artest) would have probably folded against that same Magic or Denver team last year. Take into account the Spurs, Magic, Cavs and especially the Celtics will all be better next year.

If the Lakers lose Odom, they are finished. I wouldnt pick them to even come out of the west.

That's the most important thing.

[Gino]

LMAO! For two years we heard Laker fans' calls to hang Mr. "There is no magic wand" for not getting KG.

Now they want to praise him as a great GM.

If Memphis didnt commit the most asinine trade in NBA history, Kobe would still be demanding a trade and Lakers fans wouldnt be blaming him.

[TheMACHINE]

LMAO! For two years we heard Laker fans' calls to hang Mr. "There is no magic wand" for not getting KG.

Now they want to praise him as a great GM.

If Memphis didnt commit the most asinine trade in NBA history, Kobe would still be demanding a trade and Lakers fans wouldnt be blaming him.

if if if....if Ainge didnt trade for Kg, you guys would be still in the lottery. You are the last person who should be bitching about trades.

[Gino]

if if if....if Ainge didnt trade for Kg, you guys would be still in the lottery. You are the last person who should be bitching about trades.

1) Celitcs didnt look like a lottery team sans KG in the playoffs last year

2) The KG for Al Jefferson and a lottery pick trade hardly compares to Gasol for Kwame Brown (and a couple of late picks).

[Gino]

The Lakers remind me of the nWo back when it first formed.

[TheMACHINE]

The Lakers remind me of the nWo back when it first formed.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e52/ominousinane/el1oo2.jpg

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

what would you consider ground up? Just beacuse he didnt get Kobe in 96, we have to say he didnt built this team?


Not so much that he didn't build the team, but that he only built a portion of the team. IMO, by far the hardest part of building a championship team is finding a player capable of leading a team to a championship. When you're a GM and you take over a team with a player capable of that, things get a lot simpler. Building around a Kobe Bryant is a lot easier than finding a Kobe Bryant to build around.

Mitch isn't the only GM I think is overrated btw., it's not like I'm singling him out. Danny Ainge is terribly overrated.

[TheMACHINE]

Not so much that he didn't build the team, but that he only built a portion of the team. IMO, by far the hardest part of building a championship team is finding a player capable of leading a team to a championship. When you're a GM and you take over a team with a player capable of that, things get a lot simpler. Building around a Kobe Bryant is a lot easier than finding a Kobe Bryant to build around.

Mitch isn't the only GM I think is overrated btw., it's not like I'm singling him out. Danny Ainge is terribly overrated.

wow..so getting 91% of the team is not building the team. okie dokie.

[Culburn369]

Artest was a ringer for the Lakers. Odom, Kobe and Magic conspired to recruit him, giving Ariza the brush. Consequently, I can't see Odum then turning around and forsaking the Lakers. He must be fixed as well.

[Culburn369]

The Lakers remind me of the nWo back when it first formed.

You mean Rasslin', Gino?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

wow..so getting 91% of the team is not building the team. okie dokie.


It's not as black and white as you're trying to paint it and I think you know that.

[TheMACHINE]

It's not as black and white as you're trying to paint it and I think you know that.

Everyone but Kobe is here because of Mitch. How else can we twist that fact?

[2Cleva]

Only leverage is what Portland does. If they offer LO a big K, LA probably has to jump to match.

If Por signs/trades for anyone else, LA has all the leverage with no one else with cap space and LA offering much more than the MLE.

Without LO, LA goes back to the pack with the other great teams with a key flaw (SA, Orl, Cle, Bos). If he's back, LA is clearly #1.

[DPG21920]

Only leverage is what Portland does. If they offer LO a big K, LA probably has to jump to match.

If Por signs/trades for anyone else, LA has all the leverage with no one else with cap space and LA offering much more than the MLE.

Without LO, LA goes back to the pack with the other great teams with a key flaw (SA, Orl, Cle, Bos). If he's back, LA is clearly #1.

Yes, this is accurate. But if LA plays hardball and do not keep Odom happy, he could:

1) Not be as cool with his role
2) Could lead to problems with chemistry
3) He could go somewhere else for the same/less money like Ariza if he does not feel appreciated.

But the scenario you outlined is accurate.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Everyone but Kobe is here because of Mitch. How else can we twist that fact?


Fisher isn't there because of Mitch. He's there because of Kobe and Phil. If Mitch was general manager of the Suns and Kerr was general manager of the Lakers, Fish would have still signed with the Lakers following the 2007 season.

Odom is there because of a HOF center trading chip Mitch inherited. Odom was an established player when Mitch traded for him, it's not like Mitch saw talent/potential no one else saw, he traded an established player for an established player.

Gasol is there because of many things. Again, he traded for an established player, he didn't see potential that no one else saw. Being able to trade for an established player like Gasol way below value was mostly due to timely circumstances and luck. It didn't take an extremely crafty GM to execute that trade. If Mitch was GM of Memphis and Chris Wallace was GM of LA, I highly doubt the tables would have turned and Memphis would have ripped off LA.

[TheMACHINE]

Fisher isn't there because of Mitch. He's there because of Kobe and Phil. If Mitch was general manager of the Suns and Kerr was general manager of the Lakers, Fish would have still signed with the Lakers following the 2007 season.

Odom is there because of a HOF center trading chip Mitch inherited. Odom was an established player when Mitch traded for him, it's not like Mitch saw talent/potential no one else saw, he traded an established player for an established player.

Gasol is there because of many things. Again, he traded for an established player, he didn't see potential that no one else saw. Being able to trade for an established player like Gasol way below value was mostly due to timely circumstances and luck. It didn't take an extremely crafty GM to execute that trade. If Mitch was GM of Memphis and Chris Wallace was GM of LA, I highly doubt the tables would have turned and Memphis would have ripped off LA.

Kobe, Phil, Luck, established players...all excuses to take credit away from Mitch. No point in arguing this. If Shanon Brown turns to gold, you'll find a way to discredit Mitch.

I know lets blame Mitch for all the bad stuff and give credit to luck and Phil and Kobe for the good stuff.

Crappy ass mitch...dumbest GM ever.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Kobe, Phil, Luck, established players...all excuses to take credit away from Mitch. No point in arguing this. If Shanon Brown turns to gold, you'll find a way to discredit Mitch.

I know lets blame Mitch for all the bad stuff and give credit to luck and Phil and Kobe for the good stuff.

Crappy ass mitch...dumbest GM ever.


Now you're just putting words in my mouth. Are you gonna offer a counter argument as to why every thing I just said was an excuse?

And Shannon Brown will be completely different than the examples I mentioned. He traded nothing for Brown when Brown was a nobody that no other team wanted, similar to Ariza. He gets credit for both of them because he more or less traded nothing for either one whereas they were both players no other team wanted. He saw talent no one else did. You're comparing apples to oranges.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

If I went out and bought a Ferrari cheap because I was lucky enough to have a friend who needed money to pay the mortgage and was willing to sell his car significantly below value, it wouldn't make me car savvy, anyone with the slightest amount of car knowledge knows a Ferrari is a baller ass car.

If I was able to buy a beat up car cheap because I knew that it had a lot of qualities while it's problems could easily be fixed, and I successfully repaired it to be equally as awesome as a Ferrari, then that would make me car savvy, because it took a good amount of car knowledge to do what I did.

[Gino]

You guys need to define the parameters of what makes a good GM before debating whether or not cupcake is a good or bad one.

I would say his resume is starting to speak for itself. Whether or not he landed in a primo position in another story. The fact that he's added Artest, Gasol and Fisher while keeping Kobe is pretty impressive.

[024]

andrew "hakeem" bynum will step up.

[ginobili's bald spot]

It would be a huge blow if Odom didn't resign. He's an vital part of what we do and his unique skill set would be impossible to replace. It would probably mean no championship considering our big man depth would be ruined and we wouldn't be able to find anybody to replace him with the vets minimum. Fortunately the front office knows these things and aren't gonna let him go and Lamar really doesn't want to leave.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The fact that he's added Artest, Gasol and Fisher while keeping Kobe is pretty impressive.


Artest and Fisher signed largely cause they got to play with Kobe.

Mitch is by no means a bad GM, anytime you assemble a championship team you obviously did something right, I'm saying that he didn't have to make extremely savvy roster decisions. He didn't pull off Joe Barry Carroll for McHale and Parish type trade to get the Lakers where they are.

[Culburn369]

It would probably mean no championship considering our big man depth would be ruined and we wouldn't be able to find anybody to replace him with the vets minimum.

Without Odum it would not be the cakewalk to the '10 Finals that it'd be with him, but, to say "ruined" is just absurd. Odum, until this his contract year has been drifting thru games/seasons doing a Vinnie Barbarino impression. Afore this season he could not do one thing with the ball until his babbled it. Will he go back to that after garnering his ring & money?

[KSeal]

Artest and Fisher signed largely cause they got to play with Kobe.

Mitch is by no means a bad GM, anytime you assemble a championship team you obviously did something right, I'm saying that he didn't have to make extremely savvy roster decisions. He didn't pull off Joe Barry Carroll for McHale and Parish type trade to get the Lakers where they are.

Fisher signed largely cause his daughter has eye cancer.

Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown doesn't count?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Odum, until this his contract year has been drifting thru games/seasons doing a Vinnie Barbarino impression.

wtf are you talking about? He put up identical numbers in 2006-2007 and 2007-2008 as he did this year.......he had the same drift through games problem this year that he has had every year, this was by no means a fluke "contract year" for him at all.

[KSeal]

Lakers would have NO bench and depth if Lamar leaves, seriously, Lamar is the Lakers bench and security for Bynum. He leaves the Lakers road to another championship becomes a lot harder.

[Culburn369]

wtf are you talking about? He put up identical numbers in 2006-2007 and 2007-2008 as he did this year.......he had the same drift through games problem this year that he has had every year, this was by no means a fluke "contract year" for him at all.

Point taken, but, he straightened out in the playoffs, the deeper in the less drifting, till finally he was actually finishing his layups and holding onto the ball initially, instead of fumbling it and then holding onto it. I think Walton taught him that fumbling trait.

[ginobili's bald spot]

Without Odum it would not be the cakewalk to the '10 Finals that it'd be with him, but, to say "ruined" is just absurd. Odum, until this his contract year has been drifting thru games/seasons doing a Vinnie Barbarino impression. Afore this season he could not do one thing with the ball until his babbled it. Will he go back to that after garnering his ring & money?


I'm sure you're an authority on what Odom and what he brings to the team when you don't even know how his name is spelled.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Fisher signed largely cause his daughter has eye cancer.

Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown doesn't count?


With Fisher, either way Mitch really didn't have to do a whole lot to get him to play in LA. And from what I remember Fisher left Utah cause his daughter had eye cancer and wasn't satisfied with the "Have faith and Joseph Smith will save her eye" treatment in Utah, I'm not sure if the eye thing actually was a factor that made him sign with LA. Either way it doesn't matter.


And yes, Mitch gets a little credit for that trade, but it's not like Memphis thought they were getting the better trade, Memphis knew they were getting ripped off, their main concern was cutting payroll. Mitch didn't need to out smart anyone, plus it didn't hurt that there's Jerry West connection. So yeah he's a good GM for taking advantage of that opportunity given to him, but moreso a lucky GM for being presented with that opportunity.


And I repeat, Mitch is only one of many GMs where people confuse luck with skill. RC Buhford wouldn't have done shit as GM if not for the Spurs being lucky enough to get the #1 overall pick in 1997.

[Culburn369]

I'm sure you're an authority on what Odom and what he brings to the team when you don't even know how his name is spelled.

What, you guys do the spelling indictment on this Board? That's the last bastion of the thoroughly vanquished.

Please. Try and act like somebody.

[Allanon]

People say Lamar is inconsistent but he's been very consistently at 15 points and 9 rebounds his entier career.

15 points and 9 rebounds over the last 10 years isn't consistent enough?

Lakers would be seriously hurting with Josh Powell backing up Bynum rather than Lamar.

But unlike many Laker fans, the Lakers' brass know Lamar's worth...he'll be re-signed and even overpaid if need be to keep this championship core together.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

What, you guys do the spelling indictment on this Board? That's the last bastion of the thoroughly vanquished.

Please. Try and act like somebody.

Being the grammar police on a careless spelling error is being a douche bag, but when you repeatedly spell a player's name wrong when that player is on your favorite team, it just makes you look stupid.

[Culburn369]

People say Lamar is inconsistent but he's been very consistently at 15 points and 9 rebounds his entier career.

15 points and 9 rebounds over the last 10 years isn't consistent enough?

Lakers would be seriously hurting with Josh Powell backing up Bynum rather than Lamar.

Yer right, Powell backed away from the table toward the end. He had happy feet and was pulling the string on his shot.

Where Odom fails to persuade is his inability to execute his talent. He's a terrible finisher and until this year it about drove Kobe nutty-nuts.

[Culburn369]

Being the grammar police on a careless spelling error is being a douche bag, but when you repeatedly spell a player's name wrong when that player is on your favorite team, it just makes you look stupid.

Any spelling indictment when the intent is obvious is weakPERIOD

I broke AZ Central of that horseshit habit and I see I'll have to do likewise here. I look forward to the challenge with equal amounts of both anticipation & determination.

Let us proceed...

[DPG21920]

No one has the Lakers by the balls. Shaq thought he did, and wound his ass up in Miami. Kobe thought he did, and if Logo hadnt stepped in with Gasol, Kobe would have been traded as well.

Unlike the Spurs, and the Cavs, we have no issues of attracting FA's in the off season. Odom only has one suitor for his services, and that one team is a team he hates.

All this speculation is cool, but Odom is already a lock to be a Laker.

Is this a joke? Yes, those players have them by the balls IF THEY WANT TO WIN. How long did it take after the Lakers so wisely called the Shaq bluff? Shaq won a title while LA watched his ass in Miami. If they would have let Kobe go (landing Pau did not mean Kobe did not have them by the balls), no ring for even longer. Kobe held that team and FO hostage, still does.

So yes, they might be willing to let people walk to stroke their egos, but they won't win that way.

[Allanon]

Yer right, Powell backed away from the table toward the end. He had happy feet and was pulling the string on his shot.

Where Odom fails to persuade is his inability to execute his talent. He's a terrible finisher and until this year it about drove Kobe nutty-nuts.

I think Odom's the one guy Kobe's always been happy about, but Kobe & Odom weren't enough to go up against the trio of Nash/Amare/Marion.

But hey, you're a Laker fan so I'm not going to go out of my way arguing with another Laker fan.

I'm used to other Lakerfans not liking Odom, I've liked him since his Clipper days and he's my favorite Laker so I'll leave it at that and hope he re-signs with the Lakeshow.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Is this a joke? Yes, those players have them by the balls IF THEY WANT TO WIN. How long did it take after the Lakers so wisely called the Shaq bluff?


I think Lakaluva's point is even if it means being a worse team in the short term, they're never going to let a player jerk them around, even if it means trading the player and entering a rebuilding phase. Correct me if I'm wrong Lakaluva.

[DrHouse]

I wouldn't worry about the Laker FO if I were a Laker fan. They are hands down the best in the biz IMHO.

15 titles. Winningest team in all of basketball. Most NBA Final's appearances. Just a class organization through and through that is dedicated to one thing and one thing only, championships.

[Culburn369]

I think Odom's the one guy Kobe's always been happy about, but Kobe & Odom weren't enough to go up against the trio of Nash/Amare/Marion.

But hey, you're a Laker fan so I'm not going to go out of my way arguing with another Laker fan.

I'm used to other Lakerfans not liking Odom, I've liked him since his Clipper days and he's my favorite Laker so I'll leave it at that and hope he re-signs with the Lakeshow.

I don't trust Odum. I don't trust Walton the same way. They don't trust themselves. Let's face it, aside from Kobe & Gasol the rest are not trustworthy. Fisher trusts himself, and that's good enough for me, but, I admittedly don't trust him.

And yer right: the reason Nash/Amare/Marion could end Kobe/Odum is because Nash & Marion knew Odum could not be trusted and they cut him out, isolated him and took his pant's down. Marion could function there because HE knew he didn't have to worry about Lamar, so he could concentrate on flustering Kobe. Gasol comes along and it's a new shuffle. Kobe pushes Odum down the pecking order and keeps Gasol as his sidekick, but, he doesn't do it publicly so as to hurt Odum's feelings. It's a delicate balancing act for Kobe. He knows Gasol is the goods.

[ginobili's bald spot]

What, you guys do the spelling indictment on this Board? That's the last bastion of the thoroughly vanquished.

Please. Try and act like somebody.

"Thoroughly vanquished" by what? Your argument that was based on a completely false premise? :lol Nice try. Here's "Odums" per 36 minute stats from the past two seasons.

2007-08------ 2008-09

13.5 points---- 13.8 Points

3.4 Assists----- 3.2 Assists

10.1 Rebounds --- 9.9 Rebounds

[Culburn369]

"Thoroughly vanquished" by what? Your argument that was based on a completely false premise? :lol Nice try. Here's "Odums" per 36 minute stats from the past two seasons.

2007-08------ 2008-09

13.5 points---- 13.8 Points

3.4 Assists----- 3.2 Assists

10.1 Rebounds --- 9.9 Rebounds

Don't be obtuse. I'm calling you out over your use of the spelling indictment. It's got nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Now grow up.

[DPG21920]

The Lakers have won more titles than the Celtics? If not, they are not the best in the business nor the franchise that has won the most. There is the Celtics, then everyone else.

DOK: that may be true to a certain degree, but players like Kobe and Shaq and Magic...do not come along all the time.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

And yer right: the reason Nash/Amare/Marion could end Kobe/Odum is because Nash & Marion knew Odum could not be trusted and they cut him out, isolated him and took his pant's down. Marion could function there because HE knew he didn't have to worry about Lamar, so he could concentrate on flustering Kobe.


You must have not watch the Lakers at all from 2005-2007. Lamar put up great numbers against the Suns.

[ginobili's bald spot]

Don't be obtuse. I'm calling you out over your use of the spelling indictment. It's got nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Now grow up.


:lol That post was about the discussion at hand and nothing else. You are the only one still crying like a bitch over a "spelling indictment". Quit crying and address the facts. You can't because you were wrong and my original point that you had no idea what you were talking about stands.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:lol That post was about the discussion at hand and nothing else. You are the only one still crying like a bitch over a "spelling indictment". Quit crying and address the facts. You can't because you were wrong and my original point that you had no idea what you were talking about stands.


I 2nd this. Saying Odom played way better this year than any other year is just flat out wrong. In fact, 2008-2009 was the lowest PPG of Lamar's career.

[Culburn369]

:lol That post was about the discussion at hand and nothing else. You are the only one still crying like a bitch over a "spelling indictment". Quit crying and address the facts. You can't because you were wrong and my original point that you had no idea what you were talking about stands.

I already addressed it. Yer just too stove up to read it.

[Culburn369]

You made a mistake and placed your period after your quotation. I thought about fixing for you.

Of course you did. First Odum now, a period.

It's just weak.

[Culburn369]

I 2nd this. Saying Odom played way better this year than any other year is just flat out wrong. In fact, 2008-2009 was the lowest PPG of Lamar's career.

...but, when the call came, this time, unlike every other time he answered it. He finished at the rim. He didn't turn it over. He didn't spoil the play by fumbling the ball. It ain't about PPG, DUNCAN, it just ain't.

[ginobili's bald spot]

I already addressed it. Yer just too stove up to read it.

:lol No you didn't. Nice try avoiding the issues though. I guess that's the new last bastion of the thoroughly vanquished.

[Culburn369]

You preaching to the choir here.

It's just disappointing to discover it here now. It's so beneath grown men, and they always stoop to it when the discussion is at loggerheads.

Ugh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

...but, when the call came, this time, unlike every other time he answered it. He finished at the rim. He didn't turn it over. He didn't spoil the play by fumbling the ball. It ain't about PPG, DUNCAN, it just ain't.

This has nothing to do with this:


Without Odum it would not be the cakewalk to the '10 Finals that it'd be with him, but, to say "ruined" is just absurd. Odum, until this his contract year has been drifting thru games/seasons doing a Vinnie Barbarino impression. Afore this season he could not do one thing with the ball until his babbled it. Will he go back to that after garnering his ring & money?

[Culburn369]

I guess that's the new last bastion of the thoroughly vanquished.

I'm a trend setter.

I set trends.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I guess that's the new last bastion of the thoroughly vanquished.


:lmao

[Culburn369]

This has nothing to do with this:

Please.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Please.

.....

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Yer just too stove up to read it.


What language is this?

[ginobili's bald spot]

.....

You didn't expect him to have a well thought out argument with actual facts did you?

[Culburn369]

What language is this?

Mine.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You didn't expect him to have a well thought out argument with actual facts did you?


yeah and I shouldn't have. I should have expected some feminine emo poem. Also he says he posts on AZCentral, I post there and I've never seen him post.

[Culburn369]

yeah and I shouldn't have. I should have expected some feminine emo poem. Also he says he posts on AZCentral, I post there and I've never seen him post.

Here's one:


Sarah, with child

her mate draws close
man has passed judgment
heads bow in fear
knees bend in prayer
mercy demanded
silence received
A God so exact
guidance now sought
a light so brilliant
his mate draws close
perfection delivered
Sarah, with child

- russell-ville-man

[Culburn369]

Also he says he posts on AZCentral, I post there and I've never seen him post.

See, you let your mouth overload your ass again, DUNCAN. I said I used to post on AZ Central.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I said I used to post on AZ Central.


Was this back when you were a Suns fan?

[ginobili's bald spot]

Was this back when you were a Suns fan?

:lol

[Culburn369]

Was this back when you were a Suns fan?

Please.

It was back when you were at O & 27 to O & 35.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Please.

It was back when you were at O & 27 to O & 35.


It's pretty hard for me to take that seriously when no one besides you knows what the hell it means.

[Culburn369]

It's pretty hard for me to take that seriously when no one besides you knows what the hell it means.

Use yer common sense, man. You came in in '68. You ain't ever won an NBA Championship. Ipso facto, yer O & 41.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You ain't ever won an NBA Championship.


Neither have you.

[Culburn369]

Yer the NBA's Old Maid, DUNCAN.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:lol, Come on Dok. How many years have the Suns had a team?


I didn't know he cared so much about the Suns. Now it makes sense. Most Laker fans stopped caring about them awhile ago, I guess when you were a Suns fan from 2005-2007 you're a special case.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Yer the NBA's Old Maid, DUNCAN.


Why do you keep referring to me as if I'm the Suns?

[Culburn369]

I didn't know he cared so much about the Suns. Now it makes sense.

I keep count, daddy-O. Been keepin' count since O & 27. I built Sose's Joint, phxsuns.net. That padlock he has on registration? That's for me, sweetheart.

[Culburn369]

Why do you keep referring to me as if I'm the Suns?

That's just my way.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I keep count, daddy-O. Been keepin' count since O & 27. I built Sose's Joint, phxsuns.net. That padlock he has on registration? That's for me, sweetheart.


For someone who has supposedly never been a Suns fan you seem to care an awful lot.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

That's just my way.


Well stop. If I had control of the team I wouldn't be satisfied with a "competitive" team like Colangelo was and Sarver is.

[Allanon]

Now back to Odom. I find it quite ironic that the one guy that brags about sitting on his ass and not working on his game every summer would be the one guy that would be sitting on his ass not committing to a contract. Typical Odom.

:lol True.

But at the same time, this irony is also why he's a perfect fit for the Lakers. Odom's perfectly happy to take a back seat to Kobe. Anywhere else you look, a guy with Lamar's talent who's an OVER-achiever would be the star of his own team and never want to play second fiddle to another star..

Odom's a Laker because he's laid back, if he were hardcore intense like Kobe/LeBron/Duncan/KG/etc, they wouldn't get along.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Why the hell would you want to join phxsuns.net, that site is disgusting.

[IronMexican]

Odom is an over-achiever? Please. He should be putting up 20/10 but isn't. I've learned to accept it. No way does LO over-achieve.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I tried to get in there when they got Snaq, but that place is locked down like Ft. Knox.


It's horrible. planetorange.net is just as bad. I got banned from each site after my first post. Any dissenting opinion is unwelcome there. The Phoenix media/message boards are really big on censoring the fans like me and JohnMarksJohn.

[Allanon]

Odom is an over-achiever? Please. He should be putting up 20/10 but isn't. I've learned to accept it. No way does LO over-achieve.

I don't think anybody has said that Odom's an over-achiever..

[Culburn369]

For someone who has supposedly never been a Suns fan you seem to care an awful lot.

Of course I'm a Suns fan. I'm just a hater of their's. I came to Phoenix in '86 without any preconceived hatred for them. I came here in a December and came across the radio dial and McCoy one night driving on 51st Ave and Northern. I remember the moment like it was yesterday. Something clicked in my mind and a bitter hatred took root. Hard to explain. It's like psychosis to be honest, but, its something I live with. I invented the O & __. That was my concoction. AZ Central was my home Board, but, it was right about the time that CWEBB turned his back on Horry that they all picked up and moved the whole shebang to phxsuns.net, locking me out. I won't do Lakers Boards. I'm better than that. I tried AFSN Board, but, I won't travel incognito so they boot me out as soon as I surface. I finally found this Board, but, its difficult hating the Spurs because they've stonewalled the Suns for me on numerous occasions. I shudder to think what woulda happened if Duncan hadn't hit that three. I was as nervous as a sissy at Boy's Town that night.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I shudder to think what woulda happened if Duncan hadn't hit that three.


They probably would have lost to the Hornets in the next round.....their problems went beyond the Spurs that year.

[ginobili's bald spot]

Of course I'm a Suns fan.

Interesting.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I invented the O & __. That was my concoction.


Do you want a cookie?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Refreshments?

http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/79/1/playboy_playmates_at_lakers_celtics_main.0.0.0x0.3 65x518.jpeg


yum.

[Culburn369]

I tried to get in there when they got Snaq, but that place is locked down like Ft. Knox.

I enjoy busting their balls, and as I've stated: Suns fans are very knowledgeable about the Suns and the NBA in general. I read that phxsuns.net religiously. We were going to have a powwow downtown Phoenix one time years ago, just before the three peat. The wife encouraged me go, but, I was afraid they were going to beat me up, so I chickened out.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Suns fans are very knowledgeable about the Suns and the NBA in general


Not the ones at phxsuns.net. Heck they're not even knowledgeable about the Suns. I'll guarantee 75% of those posters wouldn't be able to tell you who the Suns all time leading scorer is.

[Culburn369]

Not the ones at phxsuns.net. Heck they're not even knowledgeable about the Suns. I'll guarantee 75% of those posters wouldn't be able to tell you who the Suns all time leading scorer is.

Yer just wrong, DUNCAN. They're a bunch a babies for not coming out and playing, but, they know their shit. I go their for all my Suns information.

[sonic21]

i wanted to post at arizonasportsfan after diaw signed with the suns and got banned for saying Dirk > Amare.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I go their for all my Suns information.


Awesome. Is that supposed to mean something?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

i wanted to post at arizonasportsfan after diaw signed with the suns and got banned for saying Dirk > Amare.

Doesn't surprise me at all. Most Suns sites ban anyone that says trade Nash or trade Amare.

[Culburn369]

i wanted to post at arizonasportsfan after diaw signed with the suns and got banned for saying Dirk > Amare.

LOL! And the bastards are quick. They must have somebody right by the switch. & once yer out, they kill your IP. They're ready there. I tried thwartin' 'em using a library bank of CPUs one night, but, they were up to the task and sent me back home, tailed tucked.

[Culburn369]

Awesome. Is that supposed to mean something?

That they're current & dedicated. There is always someone posting.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

It's why the Phoenix media hates Barkley. He's got the guts to call them out for being "lightweight homers" as he says that are too scared of the team to take a controversial stance on something, the one thing the Phoenix media hates more than someone who takes an unpopular stance is someone who calls the media out for always taking the loyal stance.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

That they're current & dedicated. There is always someone posting.


Same with AZCentral, but on AZ Central there are actually different opinions. Not everyone is a blind Nash lover like they are on those sites.

[Culburn369]

But, that same Media shielded Barkley the afternoon in the '93 Finals when he caused that 3 pointer by Paxson. It was Barkley and they never made him own up to it.

[Culburn369]

Same with AZCentral, but on AZ Central there are actually different opinions. Not everyone is a blind Nash lover like they are on those sites.

But, that software is screwy. My computer can't process it.

Though I haven't been over there in a number of months. Perhaps I'll give it a try again.

[Culburn369]

I would go to suns.net after they lost a game just for good laughs. A few beers and reading the guys posting over there and it was pure comedy.

Yep! See Luva can appreciate it. Especially after they beat the Lakers this past season late. Remember? They promptly went on a like 7 game losing streak. It was a gd riot.

And the way they'll defend their padlock. LMAO!

Though they do speak respectfully of this Spurs site, and you Spurs fellows. Though Bowen about drives 'em nuts.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

But, that same Media shielded Barkley the afternoon in the '93 Finals when he caused that 3 pointer by Paxson. It was Barkley and they never made him own up to it.


Barkley was the only reason they were in the finals. Barkley was by no means a model citizen but he still cares about this team and isn't happy with where they're at. People don't get that Barkley criticizes the Suns so much because he wants to see them succeed, he doesn't do it for sport.

[Trainwreck2100]

To answer the title they'd still get the #1 seed cause of their crap division.

[MarHill]

Holy crap...DOK started a thread that isnt about me.

I will play ball...


Losing Odom would have a HUGE negative effect.

1) He's their best rebounder

2) Allows the Lakers to stay big when Bynum inevitably gets into foul trouble

3) Has the omnipresence attribute that every championship team needs.

4) Makes Gasol better.

I think the Lakers without Ariza and Odom (even adding Artest) would have probably folded against that same Magic or Denver team last year. Take into account the Spurs, Magic, Cavs and especially the Celtics will all be better next year.

If the Lakers lose Odom, they are finished. I wouldnt pick them to even come out of the west.

I've always thought that Odom was the Lakers X-Factor. When he plays well....they are very difficult to beat.

His length, versatility, and ability to play SF and PF fits perfectly for LA. Even though, he's been engimatic throughout his career (I don't like enigmatic players....i.e. Sheed!!), I was impressed with him when the Lakers won in Cleveland (breaking their undefeated regular season home record) and in Boston during the regular season.

I said at that time...if he plays this well in the playoffs the Lakers had a chance to win it all.

Odom is much more valuable than Ariza and I would be surprised to see him leave the purple-n-gold.

[kingmalaki]

You guys need to define the parameters of what makes a good GM before debating whether or not cupcake is a good or bad one.

I would say his resume is starting to speak for itself. Whether or not he landed in a primo position in another story. The fact that he's added Artest, Gasol and Fisher while keeping Kobe is pretty impressive.

I like some of the moves Mitch has made, but there wasn't anything impressive about the moves you just mentioned. Artest has always wanted to play with Kobe, and the only reason he signed with LA was because the Rockets wouldn't give him more $$. He would have stayed in Houston if they did. Any GM would trade garbage for a player like Gasol, so I don't see what's impressive about saying "sure I will rip you off". Fisher only got to LA because the Jazz let him out of his contract and LA had doctors to treat his kid. Not to mention he had already played there for titles before.

I don't see how you can really give the GM "credit" for any of those things.

[kingmalaki]

Unlike Boston, we've had a contender in every decade. Thirty finals appearances makes us second to none, in the business aspect of it.

Titles count the most, especially when the team with the most titles has like a 9-2 Finals record against you. The Bulls have been mediocore for most of their existence, outside of the MJ years. That doesn't change the fact that their franchise has won more titles than anyone outside of Boston and LA. No other team can say they have been more successful than Chicago.

[SouthTexasRancher]

I'd be pissed.


If I were a Laker fan I would be pissed too. He really came alive this playoff season. The Lakers won't let him go. Magic will step in if need be.

[Culburn369]

Titles count the most, especially when the team with the most titles has like a 9-2 Finals record against you.

Down 2-1, up 24 in the 3rd quarter of game 4 in the '08 Finals was our moment of utter failure. If we finish that, Game 5 is still on us, but, it's in CA., and we send it back to Boston up 3-2 and it's hand-to-hand combat for 4-8 quarters. If we win there then at this moment we're at 16 a piece. But, Kobe did not answer the bell at 24 up, Gasol did not know how to defend without throwing his hands up and looking to the refs for comfort, and Powe, Perkins and Garnett rubbed us out.

It is what it is.

[VivaPopovich]

won't be good, that'll take a big hit on their bench