Lakers Still Hold Edge Over Fortified Spurs

[duncan228]

One man's premature opinion.

Lakers still hold edge over fortified Spurs (http://www.neworleans.com/sports/local-sports-news/pro-basketball-news/163151-lakers-still-hold-edge-over-fortified-spurs.html)
by Craig Malveux

For a second there, Lakers fans second guessed themselves. Optimism quickly turned into thoughts surrounded by nothing but doubt with each passing day. Suddenly the glass once half full or better turned into a glass half empty.

The 2009 NBA Finals Champion Los Angeles Lakers appeared loaded with confidence to make a serious run to represent the Western Conference for the third consecutive year and defend their NBA title this upcoming season. Ready to forget the struggles they experienced against the Yao and T-Mac-less Houston Rockets as well as the never say die Denver Nuggets in the playoffs and identify themselves as the true favorites of the Western Conference.

With the best player in the game, an improving big man in Andrew Bynum, an All-Star forward in Pau Gasol and the intentions of returning Lamar Odom, Trevor Ariza and Shannon Brown back to the team, you'd be crazy to think the Lakers didn't have a legitimate chance to repeat as champions.

But just when Lakers fan had begun imagining Phil Jackson and Kobe Bryant hoisting the Western Conference trophy for the seventh time in the last decade in front of thousands of screaming fans in the Staples Center, the San Antonio Spurs made headlines on virtually every sports news entity.

Just two days before the NBA Draft, the aging Spurs made a blockbuster move to acquire small forward Richard Jefferson from the Milwaukee Bucks in exchange for Bruce Bowen, Kurt Thomas and Fabricio Oberto. Not to mention committing highway robbery by drafting both DeJuan Blair and Jack McClinton without any first round draft picks.

Regardless of the draft, let's take a deeper look at what Jefferson adds to the Spurs. The addition of the 29-year old former New Jersey and Milwaukee swingman brings much needed youth plus just under 18 points per game, 3 assists and 5.3 rebounds as a fourth scoring option. The Spurs add a lifetime 47 percent shooter along side the big three of Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobli and Tony Parker.

Without a doubt, the acquisition of Jefferson is a much needed upgrade over Michael Finley and immediately makes San Antonio as prime Western Conference contender. But don't crown them as the favorites to win the West just yet. And here's why.

Tim Duncan is the heart and soul of the San Antonio Spurs. However, he isn't the same player today that he once used to be. The past five years, Duncan has averaged 19.5 ppg compared to 22.8 ppg his first seven years in the league. His points have naturally decreased as well as his minutes per game but thats during the regular season.

In the playoffs, the two time MVP's numbers have dramatically reduced to 32.9 minutes per game, 8 boards and only 19.8 points - his lowest playoff points total in his career. That's just the beginning.

For the Spurs, their chances of even reaching the Western Conference Finals rests solely on Manu Ginobli. He can be reckless with the ball and make poor decisions sometimes. But he is the San Antonio X-factor who provides energy and immediate scoring off of the bench.

Here's where the problem lies. Ginobli has been injury prone the past two seasons and is showing wear and tear. Slashing to the lane taking a beating nightly is putting unnecessary mileage on his body evidenced by the 44 games he appeared in this past season due to a foot injury. Without Manu at full tilt, the Dallas Mavericks embarrassed the Spurs in the first round 4-1.

Regardless of who San Antonio acquires, they won't win without a healthy Ginobli period.

Health remains a concern for the Argentinean; If he is healthy, they are a dangerous team. If not, forget about it. Let's just assume everyone remains healthy the entire season, so what then? Well, there's an old saying - win with 'D'. The Spurs won four championships this decade playing great defense and fundamental basketball. The addition of Jefferson boosted the offense but crippled them a bit on defense.

"Defense wins championships" and no team knows this better than the old run-and-gun Phoenix Suns. Just ask them how many championships they won in the last decade while leading the league in points per game. The answer may surprise you. While Bruce Bowen certainly isn't getting any younger, the eight time NBA All-Defensive player was their best perimeter defender they had. Last time I checked, Bryant hasn't opted out of his contract so it's safe to say he is grinning from ear to ear somewhere in Los Angeles right now. No one successfully defended him one on one except for the Houston Rocket's Shane Battier, so Bryant had his way every night scoring 30.2 ppg on 46 percent shooting throughout the playoffs.

I'm sure either Roger Mason or Jefferson will accept the challenge of defending Bryant, but I just don't think either one can. Beside Bryant, the Lakers have two 7-foot towers (bynum and Gasol) and a versatile forward who stands 6-foot-10 in Odom. With the departure of Thomas and Oberto, they loss depth at the center position. How are they going to guard Gasol and Bynum? The answer doesn't lie within Matt Bonner, Oberto and Drew Gooden (if either of the latter two re-signs).

Without help in the front court for Duncan, the Spurs can pick their poison. Still unsure? Well the Spurs aren't the only team who made changes to their roster, Lakers General Manager Mitch Kuptchak responded with his own changes. Days after big names such as Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva, and Hedo Turkgolu accepted offers from other teams, Ron Artest signed with the Lakers ensuring the departure of Trevor Ariza.

Some question whether bringing in the troubled Artest was a smart move or simply a panic move in response to the Spurs as well as other Eastern Conference teams' acquisitions. But overlooking his past troubles in Indiana, Artest is a great all-around player with a special skill set who is a competitor. The four-time first-team all-NBA defender and 2004 Defensive Player of the Year is just what the doctor's ordered in Los Angeles. He is amongst the top defenders in the league, plays three positions on the court and most importantly brings the physicality a finesse Laker's team needs.

Ariza was a great shooter and defender as well, however he struggled against bigger and stronger players such as Carmelo Anthony. In addition to his defensive skills, Artest can create his own shot, shoot at a high percentage, and get to the rim scoring 17.1 ppg as the third or fourth option for the Lakers.

The Spurs certainly have made the West more competitive and have closed the gap between themselves and the Lakers during the offseason. The additions make them a contender in the West and gives life to an aging Spurs dynasty. But at the end of the day, the Lakers have done just enough to remain the favorites out West.

As long as they have the 'Zen Master' running the ship and the best player in the game leading the way on the floor, the Lakers have to be considered one of the best teams in the league. Health is the biggest question surrounding the Spurs. If I'm a Lakers fan, I'll take my chances.

[slick'81]

for now...

[celldweller]

Really? I guess will wait and see. :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't really understand why the majority of outlets seem to not realize that Duncan had a very serious injury during the 2nd half of the season..he didn't just coincidentally start playing poorly..

it's funny actually..when somebody like Kobe or Lebron is playing with a minor injury or a minor flu, they'll mention it about 7000 times on TV..

so why does Neworleans.com have a story about the Lakers and Spurs?..

[G-Nob]

100% correct. Up to the Spurs to prove him wrong.

[manustarting2gd]

Squirt , Squirt..ahhhhhhhhhhhh

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

This Spurs team has more potential than most of their previous teams...especially if they can add a credible 5 to the mix. I'm pretty excited to see how this team gels.

[Marcus Bryant]

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu108/king_LilJoker21/funny.gif

[mytespurs]

I don't get the point of the article.

Lakers hold the edge over every team in the western conference at this point. SA didn't have all their guns last season (fact) and even w/the healthy return of Duncan, Ginobili and the addition of Richard Jefferson, you still have to like the Lakers.

That being said, the game is played on the court, not in the papers or on message boards and anything can happen in a season but the Lakers have to be the favorites.

I am a Spurs fan but at least I try to be objective and realistic. :)

[SonOfAGun]

Manu. We need you.

[Spursmania]

:pimpslap

Without a solid Big, he's right.

[duncan228]

so why does Neworleans.com have a story about the Lakers and Spurs?..

They seem to 'cover' a wide variety of sports, this fell under 'Pro Basketball News'.

[slick'81]

i too will hold my opinion until we land our pf/c

[Solid D]

http://www.codeproject.com/KB/grid/DrawingRadarDisplayWithCS/Radar1.jpg

Caution: Objects may be more dangerous than they appear.

[cd98]

Annoying. Sounds like the writer is trying to convince himself that his team is okay.

First, no one can guard Bryant.

Second, who fears Bynum, a player that couldn't get off the bench in the playoffs?

Third, why didn't he mention the overwhelming match up problem between Parker and any point guard on the Lakers?

Fourth, why does he consider Artest an upgrade? Artest is overrated. He takes bad shots and doesn't play within the flow of the offense. When he doesn't get the ball consistently, he starts forcing bad shots. He is an overrated defender that has lost an obvious step on defense. He is not mentally stable. Last year, he had two good games in LA in the playoffs, and then disappeared for the next five games. He is no one to fear.

[easjer]

Meh, I disagree with a couple of his central points; primarily that the team is completely done without Manu. I think it's a dire situation if he's out again, but it's not at all like last year. That's one of the points of bringing in Jefferson (and hopefully retaining Mason, imo). Additionally I disagree that Artest is an upgrade over Ariza. He may be a better player, but I really don't think he's going to work in that system. At all.

And if the likeliest outcomes break out - Odom leaves and SA acquired McDyess - that further changes the complexion and breaks them even, imo. Yes, it's on the Spurs to prove, but I don't like the gap is all that huge. A lot will depend on how the rookies pan out.

[Marcus Bryant]

YdAIt4MgnHc

[Creation88]

i like the underdog role.

[rayray2k8]

i like the underdog role.

I like the sound of that as well...
Spurs are contenders.. :ihit

[Allanon]

It's going to be a great matchup, I think the Lakers still hold the edge with Odom/bench

Tony Parker >>>>> Fisher
Manu << Kobe
RJ<<Artest
Duncan >> Gasol
McDyess << Bynum

Blair/Boner <<<<< Odom
GHill/Mason/JV < Farmar/Brown/Machine
Finley > Luke

[anakha]

It's going to be a great matchup, I think the Lakers still hold the edge with Odom/bench

Tony Parker >>>>> Fisher
Manu << Kobe
RJ<<Artest
Duncan >> Gasol
McDyess << Bynum

Blair/Boner <<<< Odom
GHill/Mason/JV < Farmar/Brown/Machine
Finley > Luke

Might wanna update that - Vaughn is unsigned and is no lock to still make the team.

[cd98]

It's going to be a great matchup, I think the Lakers still hold the edge with Odom/bench

Tony Parker >>>>> Fisher
Manu << Kobe
RJ<<Artest
Duncan >> Gasol
McDyess << Bynum

Blair/Boner <<<<< Odom
GHill/Mason/JV < Farmar/Brown/Machine
Finley > Luke

I'd disagree about Bynum and Artest. Byum played terrible last year in the playoffs and was eventually benched. He missed defensive rotations and committed silly fouls. He occassionally had a decent post move, but most of his games were duds. Hard to say that he is not turning into Eric Dampier.

As for Artest, I disagree he is better than Jefferson. Artest is overrated. He took a lot of bad shots when in Houston. Shots that killed the offense and were highly contested. On defense, he showed that he couldn't keep up with the quicker players. Yes, he plays physical, but he also does not play smart. Jefferson seems to be a better scorer and better able to gel his game with the Spurs. I see Artest not working out with the Lakers.

[cd98]

Also Farmer had a down year. If that keeps up, the Laker bench is going to look weak in the backcourt outside of Kobe.

Shannon Brown is not the solution.

[Allanon]

I'd disagree about Bynum and Artest. Byum played terrible last year in the playoffs and was eventually benched. He missed defensive rotations and committed silly fouls. He occassionally had a decent post move, but most of his games were duds. Hard to say that he is not turning into Eric Dampier.

It's always iffy with Bynum. He's slow to heal and extremely slow to regain his game after an injury. But when he's playing like he did for the last 2 January's, he gives Dwight a run for his money as the top NBA center.

He was a non-factor in the last Playoffs. Good and bad since the Lakers won the championship without him, basically. Bad that he didn't show up. If he does show up, it will make the road that much easier for the Lakers with a new bonus super weapon added to an already championship team.

I can see it going either way but in his 5th year, I'm hoping he starts showing consistency over several months in his domination.



As for Artest, I disagree he is better than Jefferson. Artest is overrated. He took a lot of bad shots when in Houston. Shots that killed the offense and were highly contested. On defense, he showed that he couldn't keep up with the quicker players. Yes, he plays physical, but he also does not play smart. Jefferson seems to be a better scorer and better able to gel his game with the Spurs. I see Artest not working out with the Lakers.

Artest is extremely talented but undisciplined. I think Zenmaster Phil will bring the best out of him. If Phil doesn't, you're right, it could be a disaster.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

I agree that the Spurs can't win the West or another NBA championship without a healthy Ginobili.

I also agree that the Lakers still have to be considered at least a slight favorite because "a healthy Ginobili" is a pretty uncertain qualifier.

But IF Ginobili IS healthy this year (primarily in the playoffs)... these Spurs are capable of beating the Lakers. San Antonio is unquestionably back in the championship conversation, if healthy.

[Allanon]

Also Farmer had a down year. If that keeps up, the Laker bench is going to look weak in the backcourt outside of Kobe.

Shannon Brown is not the solution.

Farmar had an injury year, broke his foot or something like that.

I think Shannon Brown IS the solution, he looks to be a bigger, more athletic Fisher with some crunch-time Playoff play. Instrumental in one of the Denver round wins.

Still too small of a sample to be surebut he looked really good.

theMachine had a terrible year, starting out with an injury. He should rebound this year and become a good shooter again...that's my guess.

With 2 strangely underperforming key bench guys last year, my guess is the Lakers bench will be vastly improved over last season.

[Allanon]

San Antonio is unquestionably back in the championship conversation, if healthy.

No doubt.

[DAF86]

It's going to be a great matchup, I think the Lakers still hold the edge with Odom/bench

Tony Parker >>>>> Fisher
Manu << Kobe
RJ>Artest
Duncan >> Gasol
McDyess > Bynum

Blair/Boner <<<<< Odom
GHill/Mason/Clint = Farmar/Brown/Machine
Finley > Luke

That's more like it.

[Cry Havoc]

It's going to be a great matchup, I think the Lakers still hold the edge with Odom/bench

Tony Parker >>>>> Fisher
Manu << Kobe
RJ<<Artest
Duncan >> Gasol
McDyess << Bynum

Blair/Boner <<<<< Odom
GHill/Mason/JV < Farmar/Brown/Machine
Finley > Luke

I remember when you used to be a relatively objective poster.

Let's do a little more honest assessment here:

Tony >>>>>>> Fisher
Manu << Kobe
RJ = Artest (unless you think him throwing up 10 ill-advised shots a game is a good thing)
Duncan >> Gasol
McDyess >> Bynum (Just what has Bynum done to make you think he can play at a high level? He can't even rotate defensively, let alone match the contribution of a proven player on both ends like Dice).

Blair/Boner ? Odom (Assuming Odom is healthy, how do you know Blair doesn't come in and average 8 and 10?)
GHill/Mason/JV = Farmar/Brown/Machine (Vaughn? What? Anyway, none of these players are ready for WCF basketball)
Finley = Luke = Doesn't matter. Ever.

Don't get me wrong, long term I'd rather have Bynum, because eventually, MAYBE, his upside maybe give him the ability to be a poor man's Ewing (at best), which would put him in the top 5 on the list of NBA centers.

Right now, Bynum hasn't done a freaking thing to justify his value. He's a slightly less poor-man's Kwame Brown. He's a potential headcase (as evidenced by his youtube vids) and looks absolutely lost on defense.

[Allanon]

I remember when you used to be a relatively objective poster.

Not sure if I should thank you or cuss at you for this. :lol



Let's do a little more honest assessment here:
Tony >>>>>>> Fisher
Manu << Kobe
Duncan >> Gasol
Fine



RJ = Artest (unless you think him throwing up 10 ill-advised shots a game is a good thing)
We haven't seen the best of Ron Artest for years now, people have forgotten how good he can be given the proper coaching. When Ron's on top of his game, he's unstoppable in the post and a lock-down defender, especially in tandem with Kobe. My guess he and Kobe will combine for the best perimeter duo in the NBA.



McDyess >> Bynum (Just what has Bynum done to make you think he can play at a high level? He can't even rotate defensively, let alone match the contribution of a proven player on both ends like Dice).

I can understand your viewpoint. Bynum hasn't done jack for 4 years except show flashes of dominance. But that's why I'm betting this is his year to put it all together.



Blair/Boner ? Odom (Assuming Odom is healthy, how do you know Blair doesn't come in and average 8 and 10?)

I think Blair's gonna have a good rookie season but c'mon, Odom would destroy both Blair and Boner.



GHill/Mason/JV = Farmar/Brown/Machine (Vaughn? What? Anyway, none of these players are ready for WCF basketball)
Finley = Luke = Doesn't matter. Ever.

Agreed

[qiuyizeng]

It's always iffy with Bynum. He's slow to heal and extremely slow to regain his game after an injury. But when he's playing like he did for the last 2 January's, he gives Dwight a run for his money as the top NBA center.

He was a non-factor in the last Playoffs. Good and bad since the Lakers won the championship without him, basically. Bad that he didn't show up. If he does show up, it will make the road that much easier for the Lakers with a new bonus super weapon added to an already championship team.

I can see it going either way but in his 5th year, I'm hoping he starts showing consistency over several months in his domination.



Artest is extremely talented but undisciplined. I think Zenmaster Phil will bring the best out of him. If Phil doesn't, you're right, it could be a disaster.
really?

[cd98]

Farmar had an injury year, broke his foot or something like that.

I think Shannon Brown IS the solution, he looks to be a bigger, more athletic Fisher with some crunch-time Playoff play. Instrumental in one of the Denver round wins.

Still too small of a sample to be surebut he looked really good.

theMachine had a terrible year, starting out with an injury. He should rebound this year and become a good shooter again...that's my guess.

With 2 strangely underperforming key bench guys last year, my guess is the Lakers bench will be vastly improved over last season.

Well, I'm obviously biased, but I think the strength of the Laker team last year was obviously Kobe and Gasol. I think Lamar gave them good match up problems. And I think Ariza provided athletic wing defense that Phil has always had and used effectively (see Harper and Pippen).

I think the Lakers lose a lot defensively with Ariza leaving (equally bad move for him to go to Rockets). Artest is an overrated defender. He has his moments offensively, but he is too undisciplined to know what is or is not a good shot. Hard to see how Phil is any different than Adelman, a coach that Artest loved and had a very good relationship with. I'm just not sold on that move.

As for Farmer, he looked good two years ago. Last year, he looked like he lost all his confidence. I've always that the Machine was less than adequate. He's not the knock down shooter they pretend he is and, though active on defense, ultimately his foot speed is too slow to be an adequate defender against healthy top notch players.

Bynum, while talented, shows that even though he can string a few good games against the Clippers, T'wolves, and Grizzlies has a long way to go to prove he is worth his contract. He's not the worst center, but he is way over paid. At his best, I promise you Yao (when not injured) and Howard are still much better. And I would argue that Howard's game has a lot of flaws that he occassionally makes up for with athleticism.

Lakers need to resign Odom desperately and they need to get better at the point guard position. Houston destroyed them all because their point guard got to the rim consistently. L.A. will have it much tougher with Paul, Parker, and a healthy Williams. The point guard position is the one real weak spot. Hard to address, though, as the Mavs found out.

[Galileo]

Duncan's scoring is not down, just his minutes.

[coachmac87]

Well, I'm obviously biased, but I think the strength of the Laker team last year was obviously Kobe and Gasol. I think Lamar gave them good match up problems. And I think Ariza provided athletic wing defense that Phil has always had and used effectively (see Harper and Pippen).

I think the Lakers lose a lot defensively with Ariza leaving (equally bad move for him to go to Rockets). Artest is an overrated defender. He has his moments offensively, but he is too undisciplined to know what is or is not a good shot. Hard to see how Phil is any different than Adelman, a coach that Artest loved and had a very good relationship with. I'm just not sold on that move.

As for Farmer, he looked good two years ago. Last year, he looked like he lost all his confidence. I've always that the Machine was less than adequate. He's not the knock down shooter they pretend he is and, though active on defense, ultimately his foot speed is too slow to be an adequate defender against healthy top notch players.

Bynum, while talented, shows that even though he can string a few good games against the Clippers, T'wolves, and Grizzlies has a long way to go to prove he is worth his contract. He's not the worst center, but he is way over paid. At his best, I promise you Yao (when not injured) and Howard are still much better. And I would argue that Howard's game has a lot of flaws that he occassionally makes up for with athleticism.

Lakers need to resign Odom desperately and they need to get better at the point guard position. Houston destroyed them all because their point guard got to the rim consistently. L.A. will have it much tougher with Paul, Parker, and a healthy Williams. The point guard position is the one real weak spot. Hard to address, though, as the Mavs found out.

+1 Great Post!

I think Odom is the key. If they lose Odom it would force Bynum to step his game up and I just dont think he is ready for that. Odom gives LA sooooo many options and versatility. If they lose Odom, it would be better for Artest and he will have a great year. But the team will struggle. As we all know LA cant afford to lose both Ariza and Odom.

[Ace9]

Tony Parker > Derek Fisher
Manu Ginobili < Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan > Pau Gasol
Richard Jefferson > Ron Artest
Antonio McDyess > Andrew Bynum

Obviously Tony is better than Derek. Obviously Kobe is better than Manu. Obviously Timmy is better than Pau. Richard Jefferson and Ron Artest is basically a tossup, imo. I give the edge to RJ because of my Spurs bias and the fact that RJ is a high character guy, not a headcase, and a guy one would consider coachable. I think Bynum will be a fine center next year. I just think right now McDyess possesses more skill and talent than Andrew, which is not far-fetched at all. In a couple years, if Bynum can live up to his hype than obviously he'll be better than a 37 year old McDyess.

Spurs Bench = Lakers Bench

I don't really want to breakdown the backups, but I will say: If you judge Bynum negatively because he hasn't really done anything, than how can you judge Blair positively? Anyways, I think both will do fine next year. But unlike Bynum, Blair basically serves two purposes: good defense and rebounding. Rebounding, which I think Blair will dominate, even as a rookie. Defense is something he'll have to work on to get up to par with the NBA level. For what the Spurs want him to do, DeJuan Blair will do that at a high level. Almost the same thing for Matt Bonner, but not quite. Bonner will be much more effective when he is not forced into a position where he has to start and start at center/PF. So if you think he's gonna suck as much as he did last year, think again. Of course, I can only hope Pop won't turn to him in clutch moments, haha. So when I reach the conclusion of Odom > Bonner + Blair, I reach it in terms of talent. In which case Odom crushes Bonner and Blair. In a similar position as Bonner and Blair is Finley. Finley will hopefully and in good logic from Pop, get limited to around 10-15 mpg. Finley is a clutch player with a good shot, and brings the overrated veteran leadership to help guide the younger guys. Finley will be again, like Blair and Bonner, more effective than he was last year, in a position where he is not forced to start. Let's not forget Roger Mason and George Hill. Both are high quality backups and decent starters, if ever need be.

When you consider it all, I believe the Spurs would be beat the Lakers in the Western Conference Finals, and possibly go on to win the NBA Finals. Hey, it might require some luck to get Manu healthy, but the Spurs are the only challengers, imo, to the Lakers' throne. :flag:

[Slinkyman]

Manu doesn't start, Mason does. Normally teams go to a 8 man rotation during the playoffs which would likely see:

Manu, Hill, Blair Vs. Odom, Farmar, Vujucic

Blair is the wildcard, if he's as good as advertised the edge is to the spurs easily.

As for the starters the likely match-ups would be:

Parker>Fish
Mason<Kobe
Jefferson=Artest
Dice<Gasol
Duncan>Bynum

[cd98]

A player by player comparison doesn't tell the whole story. We'll see how the players gel before declaring the better team. Truth be told, both are very talented, but no more so than the other. IMHO, Spurs upgraded, Lakers (assuming they sign Odom) stay the same with except for losing perimeter defense (Artest can bang guys in the post, but he's not effective guarding guys on the peremeter).

Truth be told, Bowen was the best perimeter defender I've ever seen. Ariza has that type of potential. He was lethal with L.A. I'm glad he's going to disappear in Houston, where he will be less effective as he has no one to create shots for him and he can't put the ball on the floor and score consistently.

[hater]

This article was written before the McDyess signing :D

[hater]

when did RJ turn into MJ????

Artest >> RJ

[wut]

I don't think it's wrong to say both teams are equally matched on paper. Now then you add in reality, add injuries, refs, who has homecourt advantage and I'm thinking Lakers would have the edge. This isn't to say that Spurs won't be the better team if they meet the Lakers in the playoffs...just that odds are better in the Lakers favor.

But being a Spurs fan, I keep faith that we'll be healthy and rockin' come playoff time, which should mean BIG trouble for the Lakers. :D

In any case, miles above last year where the team would've had no chance to beat the Lakers.

[hater]

Lakers are still better. Jut a tad bit better. On paper.

[Nathan Explosion]

The one thing that no one is mentioning is that Artest has never been able to guard a healthy Gino. Gino is too quick and crafty for Artest. That means Kobe will still spend time guarding him.

Another thing not mentioned was that Ariza was the primary defender on Parker. It's been said that the best way to guard lightening quick PGs is with fairly quick, long agile defenders, like Ariza. Therefore, Artest is stuck guarding Jefferson while Kobe has to choose between Parker and Gino. That's a matchup that work in favor of the Spurs in a HUGE way.

I'd give the Lakers the edge based on the fact that they ended last season as the best team and this season hasn't started yet. But it's going to be a long season, and the offseason isn't even done yet. Let's save the observations for November at the earliest.

[DrHouse]

Truthfully I'm more worried about the Celtics and Cavs than the Spurs.

They are not a team that gives the Lakers fits like the Celtics seem to do. Mainly because their defense is a shadow of what it once was.

[SonOfAGun]

Hill will have a breakout year.

[poeticism707]

This article was written before the McDyess signing :D
:king

[cd98]

RJ isn't MJ. Or even close. But who is Ron Artest? What's he done in this league? What teams has he led to a championship? How many scoring titles does he have? How many all star appearances? I'm yet to see him make a team a winner.

I saw him play the Lakers in the playoffs. He had two great games (G1 and G2) and then disappeared. Once Yao went down, he was supposed to step up. He didn't. His teammates did. He's overrated. Especially now on L.A. where every player is overrated as their abilities suddenly swell under the adoring media.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Irrelevant article. Describes Manu as "not at full tilt" against Mavs last year - how about "not playing". Ignores Duncan's tendonosis. Ignores Blair and McDyess. Assumes RJ will not be an improved defender in our system. Fail.

[xtremesteven33]

You cant tell me the defense is not gonna be better with RJ and Dice in the starting lineup....

[hater]

RJ isn't MJ. Or even close. But who is Ron Artest? What's he done in this league? What teams has he led to a championship? How many scoring titles does he have? How many all star appearances? I'm yet to see him make a team a winner.

I saw him play the Lakers in the playoffs. He had two great games (G1 and G2) and then disappeared. Once Yao went down, he was supposed to step up. He didn't. His teammates did. He's overrated. Especially now on L.A. where every player is overrated as their abilities suddenly swell under the adoring media.

Artest does not need to lead the Lakers. They have Kobe or even Gasol.

Artest has fit and been a great contributor to EVERY team he has been on. Pacers, Kings, Rockets. I don't understand why some Spur fans are saying he will give Lakers chemistry problems. That is bullshit!!! and you know it.

Artest is gonna kill with the Lakers.

The key to me for the Lakers is to keep Odom. They will IMO. If they don't they are toast. If they do they have a chance.

But on the other hand, Lakers backup guards are complete shit. Pathetic. And the rest of their bench is pretty pathetic too. Lakers have taken a step back mainly for losing Ariza and doing nothing to improve their backups.

[rjv]

It's going to be a great matchup, I think the Lakers still hold the edge with Odom/bench

Tony Parker >>>>> Fisher
Manu << Kobe
RJ<<Artest
Duncan >> Gasol
McDyess << Bynum

Blair/Boner <<<<< Odom
GHill/Mason/JV < Farmar/Brown/Machine
Finley > Luke

i would have artest and jefferson as equal and i would also have to be cautious of bynum. the bynum of the regular season would be better than mcdyess but the post-season bynum would not be. also, it would be mason that is less than kobe and not manu as manu would come off of the bench and he would make the bench for the spurs as good as that of the lakers.

a series between the two would be epic i believe, assuming everyone was healthy.

[poeticism707]

The one thing that no one is mentioning is that Artest has never been able to guard a healthy Gino. Gino is too quick and crafty for Artest. That means Kobe will still spend time guarding him.

Another thing not mentioned was that Ariza was the primary defender on Parker. It's been said that the best way to guard lightening quick PGs is with fairly quick, long agile defenders, like Ariza. Therefore, Artest is stuck guarding Jefferson while Kobe has to choose between Parker and Gino. That's a matchup that work in favor of the Spurs in a HUGE way.

I'd give the Lakers the edge based on the fact that they ended last season as the best team and this season hasn't started yet. But it's going to be a long season, and the offseason isn't even done yet. Let's save the observations for November at the earliest.

+1000

I've been stressing that about how well Ariza guarded Parker for A WHILE NOW, and it's very under-represented in discussing matchups.

Put simply, the Lakers now have NO ONE that can guard Parker, at all. Artest can't, Kobe can't, Fisher DEFINITELY CAN'T, Farmar can't, Sahsa can't, etc. They have no one: Parker, the Spurs youngest proven player is going to carve the Lakers defense into SHREDS. The more the Lakers rotate to try and stop him, the more that will open up Manu/Jefferson to go ballistic because Kobe/Artest are no longer guarding them.

The Lakers, by letting Ariza walk, have made a HUGE MISTAKE: Parker might average 40ppg in a series with the Lakers, and it wouldn't surprise me. Or the Lakers will try to trap/double team him, leaving the 3 point shooters open.

Which is what the Spurs were built for.

[Nathan Explosion]

When comparing the Lakers and Celtics, I think Laker fans should be worried. The Celtics are one of the few teams that can matchup size with size, and have the advantage. The Lakers can throw out Bynum, Gasol, and Odom (assuming he re-signs) if they want. The Celtics can counter with Perkins, Sheed, and KG.

I'd give the Celtics the slight edge on those matchups.

Then you'd have Kobe and Fisher vs Pierce and Rondo. Kobe is the better player but Pierce can punish Kobe in the low block wearing him down. And does Rondo vs Fisher really deserve a comparison?

[Taking it to the Hole]

I can't wait until the NBA releases the 2009-2010 Schedule. I want to know when we play the Lakers, so we can all finally see how we match up.:toast

Also, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the NBA gives us an inordinate amount of back-to-backs again.:bang

[Nathan Explosion]

Oh, and in my last post, I forgot a guy named Ray Allen. I think the guy's a little bitch, but that little bitch can shoot lights out.

[cd98]

For some reason Bynum has a 20 point 10 rebound game against the Grizzlies, follows with a 14 point 9 rebound game against the Clippers, and all of the sudden the Lakers are acting like he is right up there with Kareem, Shaq, and the other legendary Laker big men.

Yet when he gets relegated to the bench in the playoffs, where the talent is that much better, the Laker fans talk about his potential.

Kind of reminds me of Dampier, actually.

[Nathan Explosion]

The only thing worse than comparing Blair to Malik Rose is comparing Bynum to Dampier. :lol

[cd98]

Lakers looked so - so in getting through the West last year. Look closer. The heavy weights in the Western Conference all had injuries to key players that led to a poor post season performance. Which explains LA's relative ease at winning the west and why they got to play the Nuggs instead of a good team in the WCF.

Injuries: See Utah (Boozer barely back, Okur, and Williams at first half of season), Mavs (Howard missed lots of games), Spurs (Ginoboli missed half season/playoffs); New Orleans (Paul injured, Chandler, Peja), Houston (Yao/McGrady). Makes for an easier passage to the finals, no?

[cd98]

The only thing worse than comparing Blair to Malik Rose is comparing Bynum to Dampier. :lol

Not as distant as you'd think. You see, Dampier had enough good games that people thought he had potential to be the best center not Shaq. That's why he got a huge contract.

Then, he continued to show the same inconsistent play until finally settling on being an average center in the NBA (which means you suck, but you're 7 feet tall and somewhat mobile).

Bynum has enough good games to make you think he's worth the contract L.A. gave him. But then you watch the playoffs and see that he's not getting any minutes. Especially against Houston when Yao was down. That should have been his series to dominate. Why wasn't he? Because he is overrated. Hard for some to accept, but what exactly has he done to show he's not Eric Dampier?

[iggypop123]

id love if both teams were at full strength. i believe a 100% bynum is a bigger deal in the matchup than a 100% manu

[Nathan Explosion]

Not as distant as you'd think. You see, Dampier had enough good games that people thought he had potential to be the best center not Shaq. That's why he got a huge contract.

Then, he continued to show the same inconsistent play until finally settling on being an average center in the NBA (which means you suck, but you're 7 feet tall and somewhat mobile).

Bynum has enough good games to make you think he's worth the contract L.A. gave him. But then you watch the playoffs and see that he's not getting any minutes. Especially against Houston when Yao was down. That should have been his series to dominate. Why wasn't he? Because he is overrated. Hard for some to accept, but what exactly has he done to show he's not Eric Dampier?

I know the comparison between Bynum and Dampier is a fair one. That's the sad part. That's why I said while I didn't like the comparison between Blair and Malik was being made, I think comparing Bynum to Dampier is even worse, for Bynum that is.

[cd98]

Wasn't Bynum 100% in the playoffs this past season?

[cd98]

I know the comparison between Bynum and Dampier is a fair one. That's the sad part. That's why I said while I didn't like the comparison between Blair and Malik was being made, I think comparing Bynum to Dampier is even worse, for Bynum that is.

My bad. It's the limitation of communicating ideas in writing. It's especially hard to catch sarcasm.

[romsho]

Not sure if I should thank you or cuss at you for this. :lol


Fine


We haven't seen the best of Ron Artest for years now, people have forgotten how good he can be given the proper coaching. When Ron's on top of his game, he's unstoppable in the post and a lock-down defender, especially in tandem with Kobe. My guess he and Kobe will combine for the best perimeter duo in the NBA.



I can understand your viewpoint. Bynum hasn't done jack for 4 years except show flashes of dominance. But that's why I'm betting this is his year to put it all together.



I think Blair's gonna have a good rookie season but c'mon, Odom would destroy both Blair and Boner.



Agreed

That's just it about Artest...he doesn't really live in the post now. He has become alot more of a three point shooter, with a bad shot selection. It's easy to think all of a sudden thats going to change because of the influence of Phil and Kobe, but Ron really doesn't roll that way. He will be great at times, and much of the time he will frustrate the hell out of the rest of the team with basketball that just is not smart. I don't think changing Ariza out for Artest is a big upgrade...Ariza is younger, faster, more athletic, and is a better defender than Artest at this point in their careers, and fits within the Lakers team concept. We'll see, but Ron is not a role player. Watch tape of last season's Rockets. That is what you are getting.

[HarlemHeat37]

Way too early to tell..Lakers obviously have the advantage, that's the respect they'll get as defending champions..

I want to see how our guys look in the SL, because they can potentially give us a significant advantage over LA's weak bench..we'll see if they can show some good potential for the regular season bench..

[Cant_Be_Faded]

It's going to be a great matchup, I think the Lakers still hold the edge with Odom/bench

Tony Parker >>>>> Fisher
Manu << Kobe
RJ<<Artest
Duncan >> Gasol
McDyess << Bynum

Blair/Boner <<<<< Odom
GHill/Mason/JV < Farmar/Brown/Machine
Finley > Luke

quite possibly the stupidest method for evaluating matchups, props :tu

[sabar]

Lakers and Spurs have a massive drop off in talent from the starters to the role players. Crazy to think how the teams would look if contracts of people like Sasha/Luke/Finley/Bonner went to other players. Not great players, but good role players. All these players have had pretty big struggles in recent history.

[DrHouse]

I'm just not terrified at the thought of playing the Spurs. You can sit there and run through your little player by player comparisons until you're blue in the face but the reality is that Phil Jackson's teams have usually had the upper hand over Pop when the talent levels were equal. This is a team that Jackson has proven he can beat time and time again.

This is going to be the strongest Laker team since '01. Internal improvements to Bynum, another year of chemistry with the core, and the addition of Artest is going to take this Laker team to the next level. The Spurs as constructed probably wouldn't even beat last season's Lakers, expecting them to take down this upcoming team is wishful thinking at best.

And we are all operating under the assumption that Duncan and Ginobili's bodies will hold up until the playoffs. A humongous IF at this point in their careers.

[elbamba]

The Spurs look like a powerhouse team. It might just come down to health. If both teams are healthy I like our chances. We have 4 guys who can go for 20 points a night, obviously they won't do it every night but it will be nice to know that there are several players capable of posting those numbers.

We got younger with a solid draft and retaining two players from last year. We hopefully get to see Ian.

We got a center, though I wanted Zaza. I like our prospects.

[elbamba]

I'm just not terrified at the thought of playing the Spurs. You can sit there and run through your little player by player comparisons until you're blue in the face but the reality is that Phil Jackson's teams have usually had the upper hand over Pop when the talent levels were equal. This is a team that Jackson has proven he can beat time and time again.

This is going to be the strongest Laker team since '01. Internal improvements to Bynum, another year of chemistry with the core, and the addition of Artest is going to take this Laker team to the next level. The Spurs as constructed probably wouldn't even beat last season's Lakers, expecting them to take down this upcoming team is wishful thinking at best.

And we are all operating under the assumption that Duncan and Ginobili's bodies will hold up until the playoffs. A humongous IF at this point in their careers.

Its also a pretty big "if" that Bynum steps up the way you think he will next year. His past says otherwise, he is injury prone and has decided to eat up a 10-11 million dollar contract.

You will also learn what happens when a key player decides to play for his national team for consecutive years. I have heard that Pau is going to play for Spain again this summer. We liked Manu playing when he was 25 for his national team. That changed when he turned 30, which is what Gasol will be this year.

You also make a big assumption that Artest will step in and mix well with the chemestry of the team. That has not been the case for most of his career. Maybe he gets distracted playing in LA, certainly you would agree that there is plenty there to distract. Lets see how Kobe and Artest gell, I don't know that Kobe will have the effect over Artest that Jordan had over Rodman.

Lets wait and see. But the last time LA said they weren't worried about the Spurs was the time the Spurs ended the threepeat.

[barbacoataco]

This article was poorly written, and I think the writer was far less familiar with the Spurs and Lakers than most of the posters on this board. I think the Lakers have the advantage over everyone right now. But if they wind up losing Ariza and Odom that will weaken them.

I'm not sure why anyone thinks Artest is better than Jefferson. RJ has way better stats, is also a very good defender, and has the added benefit of not being crazy. I think some of you don't watch that much Eastern Conference, but Jefferson is on the same level as Artest. He isn't as famous, because he hasn't made an ass of himself many times in public.

Richafrd Jefferson 57 win shares in 571 career games.
Ron Artest 44 win shares in 604 career games.

Any type of statistical analysis will show Jefferson to be the better offensive player, and Artest's defense is overrated and not as good as it was.

[poeticism707]

This article was poorly written, and I think the writer was far less familiar with the Spurs and Lakers than most of the posters on this board. I think the Lakers have the advantage over everyone right now. But if they wind up losing Ariza and Odom that will weaken them.

I'm not sure why anyone thinks Artest is better than Jefferson. RJ has way better stats, is also a very good defender, and has the added benefit of not being crazy. I think some of you don't watch that much Eastern Conference, but Jefferson is on the same level as Artest. He isn't as famous, because he hasn't made an ass of himself many times in public.

Richafrd Jefferson 57 win shares in 571 career games.
Ron Artest 44 win shares in 604 career games.

Any type of statistical analysis will show Jefferson to be the better offensive player, and Artest's defense is overrated and not as good as it was.

Agreed!:toast

[z0sa]

The only thing stopping Spurs from another Finals appearance is a worse Lakers squad that went 16-7 last playoffs. 16-7. The 2003 Spurs with one all-star, Tim Duncan, went 16-8. That's how Kobe, Pau, and the 'phenomenal' talent around them stepped up.

LA has proven nothing, literally NOTHING by winning 09. Another trophy, no one can take it away and props for basically showing up to play since no one else had a chance due to injuries.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

when did RJ turn into MJ????

Artest >> RJ

offensively hes not and his footspeed is not what it was 6 years ago on defense. they rebound at the same rate but jefferson is a better scorer both percentage and totals wise.

In fairness RJ has not been a good defender the last couple of seasons but Pop seems to think that more a focus thing over a ability thing. RJ is certainly more agile.

I think calling it a wash is fair even before you factor in Artest's emotional and mental makeup.

[DAF86]

when did RJ turn into MJ????

Artest >> RJ

No. Wait 'till the season starts and you'll see that RJ > that overated chucker.

[DrHouse]

Would you rather have Ron Artest @ $6 million or RJ @ $14 million?

For what the Lakers need, Artest is seemingly a perfect fit. A bulldog defender to throw at the bruising SF's that give the Lakers fits (Pierce, Melo, Lebron, etc.). Artest may not be as quick as he once was but he is still one of the league's best defenders. Having Kobe and Ron on the perimeter will definitely give the Lakers an intimidating defensive presence they have not had in a long time.

I couldn't care less what RJ brings to the Spurs because in my mind it doesn't matter what other teams are doing. As long as the Lakers retain their core and the youngins keep improving the Lakers will remain the best team in the NBA.

[Nathan Explosion]

Would you rather have Ron Artest @ $6 million or RJ @ $14 million?

For what the Lakers need, Artest is seemingly a perfect fit. A bulldog defender to throw at the bruising SF's that give the Lakers fits (Pierce, Melo, Lebron, etc.). Artest may not be as quick as he once was but he is still one of the league's best defenders. Having Kobe and Ron on the perimeter will definitely give the Lakers an intimidating defensive presence they have not had in a long time.

I couldn't care less what RJ brings to the Spurs because in my mind it doesn't matter what other teams are doing. As long as the Lakers retain their core and the youngins keep improving the Lakers will remain the best team in the NBA.

The problem for LA is that while they can now defend the bigger SFs in the league, they lost their best defender of the quicker PGs in the league, guys like Parker, Chris Paul, Derron Williams, Aaron Brooks and so on and so forth.

[rayray2k8]

Would you rather have Ron Artest @ $6 million or RJ @ $14 million?

For what the Lakers need, Artest is seemingly a perfect fit. A bulldog defender to throw at the bruising SF's that give the Lakers fits (Pierce, Melo, Lebron, etc.). Artest may not be as quick as he once was but he is still one of the league's best defenders. Having Kobe and Ron on the perimeter will definitely give the Lakers an intimidating defensive presence they have not had in a long time.

I couldn't care less what RJ brings to the Spurs because in my mind it doesn't matter what other teams are doing. As long as the Lakers retain their core and the youngins keep improving the Lakers will remain the best team in the NBA.

How can you make that comparison?
Artest took a paycut, while the spurs traded for Jefferson's bloated contract.
Yeah, as if the spurs payed him that amount. :rolleyes

[peskypesky]

With the addition of McDyess, Spurs just took the lead over the Lakers.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

With the current rosters (assuming LA keeps Odom) I'd say LA in 6.

If LA loses Odom, then they won't get past the WCF.

[Allanon]

quite possibly the stupidest method for evaluating matchups, props :tu

Woohoo!!!!! :tu

[Mr. Body]

I'd take Jefferson over Artest. How long does Ron-Ron have left?

[DrHouse]

The problem for LA is that while they can now defend the bigger SFs in the league, they lost their best defender of the quicker PGs in the league, guys like Parker, Chris Paul, Derron Williams, Aaron Brooks and so on and so forth.

You must have been smoking some glorious reefer because Ariza never once guarded any of those players in the playoffs. So even if Ariza could, in theory defend them, Phil Jackson would never allow it making it all a moot point.

Plus wouldn't it be a smarter idea for the Lakers to go out and acquire oh I don't know a PG that could actually defend other PG's instead of relying on a SF to do that job?

P.S. they already do have someone who can adequately guard all of those players....his name is Shannon Brown and you will be seeing a lot more of the kid next season.

[DrHouse]

With the addition of McDyess, Spurs just took the lead over the Lakers.

:lmao

Only on ST is a 37 year old McDyess a game changer.

[iggypop123]

The problem for LA is that while they can now defend the bigger SFs in the league, they lost their best defender of the quicker PGs in the league, guys like Parker, Chris Paul, Derron Williams, Aaron Brooks and so on and so forth.

i know you are referencing the game at san antonio where ariza had to guard parker and seemed to do an ok job on him. that wasnt by design it was out of desperation. that game farmar was out along with sasha and fisher had been substituted because he strained something. the lakers didnt have a PG for half of the 4th quarter. so the idea that the lakers have a pg in a SF is nuts. they have brown for that but thats more for stength aka billups,williams

[RodNIc91]

The only thing stopping Spurs from another Finals appearance is a worse Lakers squad that went 16-7 last playoffs. 16-7. The 2003 Spurs with one all-star, Tim Duncan, went 16-8. That's how Kobe, Pau, and the 'phenomenal' talent around them stepped up.

LA has proven nothing, literally NOTHING by winning 09. Another trophy, no one can take it away and props for basically showing up to play since no one else had a chance due to injuries.

Jaja! +1

At least we show consistency and dominance on our title runs. Not only did the nuggets lost to the lakers, but also did the magic. I mean its not like the lakers won it all. Simply they were able to execute in the counting seconds. Denver could have easily beaten them as well as Orlando. THe difference was the experience they had from the defeat of last year championship against boston.

[TJastal]

+1000

I've been stressing that about how well Ariza guarded Parker for A WHILE NOW, and it's very under-represented in discussing matchups.

Put simply, the Lakers now have NO ONE that can guard Parker, at all. Artest can't, Kobe can't, Fisher DEFINITELY CAN'T, Farmar can't, Sahsa can't, etc. They have no one: Parker, the Spurs youngest proven player is going to carve the Lakers defense into SHREDS. The more the Lakers rotate to try and stop him, the more that will open up Manu/Jefferson to go ballistic because Kobe/Artest are no longer guarding them.

The Lakers, by letting Ariza walk, have made a HUGE MISTAKE: Parker might average 40ppg in a series with the Lakers, and it wouldn't surprise me. Or the Lakers will try to trap/double team him, leaving the 3 point shooters open.

Which is what the Spurs were built for.

+1:lmao

I think its hilarious the lakers recruited Artest behind Ariza's back and now think Artest is going to represent this big upgrade over Ariza. Ariza was the absolute perfect complimentary role player, now they have a egostistical hothead who I'm thinking is going to disrupt their offensive schemes and triangle to the point where, if it gets bad enough, him and Kobe are going to clash. He may just end up on the bench in favor of Luke Walton. Wouldn't that be funny. :lol

Good times ahead.

[poeticism707]

+1:lmao

I think its hilarious the lakers recruited Artest behind Ariza's back and now think Artest is going to represent this big upgrade over Ariza. Ariza was the absolute perfect complimentary role player, now they have a egostistical hothead who I'm thinking is going to disrupt their offensive schemes and triangle to the point where, if it gets bad enough, him and Kobe are going to clash. He may just end up on the bench in favor of Luke Walton. Wouldn't that be funny. :lol

Good times ahead.

Yeah, IN NOW WAY SHAPE OR FORM SHOULD THE LAKERS HAVE CHOSEN ARTEST OVER ARIZAA.

They made a huge mistake, and it's going to show up with teams who have elite PGs like Parker.

Even if they Lakers had signed Kidd, it still wouldnt' have made a difference defensively, BECAUSE HE ABSOLUTELY CANNOT GUARD PARKER.

[poeticism707]

:lmao

Only on ST is a 37 year old McDyess a game changer.

Dice is 34, doc.

You may want to check the patient history before you make false deductions.

Wouldn't want you to prescribe the wrong medicine, would we doc?!?

[mystargtr34]

Would you rather have Ron Artest @ $6 million or RJ @ $14 million?

For what the Lakers need, Artest is seemingly a perfect fit. A bulldog defender to throw at the bruising SF's that give the Lakers fits (Pierce, Melo, Lebron, etc.). Artest may not be as quick as he once was but he is still one of the league's best defenders. Having Kobe and Ron on the perimeter will definitely give the Lakers an intimidating defensive presence they have not had in a long time.

I couldn't care less what RJ brings to the Spurs because in my mind it doesn't matter what other teams are doing. As long as the Lakers retain their core and the youngins keep improving the Lakers will remain the best team in the NBA.


:lol thats why you go out of your way to shoot down every move the Spurs every opportunity you get.

[VivaPopovich]

lakers are the champs, not us

their going to remain the favorites till someone knocks em off. see you soon

[urunobili]

Bynum on Duncan
Gasol/Odom on Dice
Artest on RJ
Kobe on Manu
Fisher on TP

They still have the edge defensively yes...

[cd98]

Would you rather have Ron Artest @ $6 million or RJ @ $14 million?

For what the Lakers need, Artest is seemingly a perfect fit. A bulldog defender to throw at the bruising SF's that give the Lakers fits (Pierce, Melo, Lebron, etc.). Artest may not be as quick as he once was but he is still one of the league's best defenders. Having Kobe and Ron on the perimeter will definitely give the Lakers an intimidating defensive presence they have not had in a long time.

I couldn't care less what RJ brings to the Spurs because in my mind it doesn't matter what other teams are doing. As long as the Lakers retain their core and the youngins keep improving the Lakers will remain the best team in the NBA.

If Ron was such a great defender, how come he didn't guard Kobe very much in the playoffs? He's an overrated defender. I've seen him quite a lot of the last couple of years and his defense, while not bad, is certainly not that great. He gets a lot of media hype for his defense. The Laker defense last year was pretty good with Ariza. I'd be surprised if Artest could duplicate that.

[DrHouse]

I see all this talk about the Lakers having nobody to defend Parker.

Apparently nobody has seen Shannon Brown.

And there has never been a time when the Lakers needed someone to guard Parker in order for them to beat the Spurs.

[DrHouse]

If Ron was such a great defender, how come he didn't guard Kobe very much in the playoffs? He's an overrated defender. I've seen him quite a lot of the last couple of years and his defense, while not bad, is certainly not that great. He gets a lot of media hype for his defense. The Laker defense last year was pretty good with Ariza. I'd be surprised if Artest could duplicate that.

Newsflash, NOBODY GUARDS KOBE BRYANT WELL. Including Shane Battier, aka Kobe stopper.

[cd98]

You must have been smoking some glorious reefer because Ariza never once guarded any of those players in the playoffs. So even if Ariza could, in theory defend them, Phil Jackson would never allow it making it all a moot point.

Plus wouldn't it be a smarter idea for the Lakers to go out and acquire oh I don't know a PG that could actually defend other PG's instead of relying on a SF to do that job?

P.S. they already do have someone who can adequately guard all of those players....his name is Shannon Brown and you will be seeing a lot more of the kid next season.

How come Shannon Brown couldn't stop Brooks in the playoffs? Perhaps because he really isn't that great a defender, just overrated because he has one good game. We'll see how Shannon Brown does against Paul and Parker this season. Then we'll see if you really think he is as good as you say.

[cd98]

Newsflash, NOBODY GUARDS KOBE BRYANT WELL. Including Shane Battier, aka Kobe stopper.

Bruce did.

[ElNono]

Would you rather have Ron Artest @ $6 million or RJ @ $14 million?

For what the Lakers need, Artest is seemingly a perfect fit. A bulldog defender to throw at the bruising SF's that give the Lakers fits (Pierce, Melo, Lebron, etc.). Artest may not be as quick as he once was but he is still one of the league's best defenders. Having Kobe and Ron on the perimeter will definitely give the Lakers an intimidating defensive presence they have not had in a long time.

I couldn't care less what RJ brings to the Spurs because in my mind it doesn't matter what other teams are doing. As long as the Lakers retain their core and the youngins keep improving the Lakers will remain the best team in the NBA.

Wait, is this the same Ron Artest you were saying was a stupid mofo after getting ejected twice on the Rockets series?
Or is it the Ron Artest that you claimed was a chucker on the same series?

Now that he's a Laker, he's a mix of MJ and Rodman? GTFO

[cd98]

I see all this talk about the Lakers having nobody to defend Parker.

Apparently nobody has seen Shannon Brown.

And there has never been a time when the Lakers needed someone to guard Parker in order for them to beat the Spurs.

I saw that Shannon Brown couldn't stop Brooks. This should be particularly disturbing because Brooks took over when the Rockets lost Yao after already playing without McGrady. Brooks single handedly took L.A. to 7 games. And with Yao and McGrady out, the Lakers couldn't find a way to stop him. Incidentally, Artest disappeared after the first two games of that series.

It's nice you have so much faith in Brown, but there really is no basis for assuming he can guard Parker or Paul when he couldn't guard Brooks.

[ElNono]

I see all this talk about the Lakers having nobody to defend Parker.

Apparently nobody has seen Shannon Brown.


Is that the guy that got so badly owned by none other than Aaron Brooks, that Phil had to reach out to Farmar?
Yeah, I think we've seen enough of Shannon Brown getting owned by quick PGs.

[JGrice02]

I see all this talk about the Lakers having nobody to defend Parker.

Apparently nobody has seen Shannon Brown.

And there has never been a time when the Lakers needed someone to guard Parker in order for them to beat the Spurs.

Um, except those times when they didn't beat the Spurs...

There isn't a PG in the league that can stay with Parker. But of course, you must realize this. Your goal is not to make cogent points but rather to stir the pot. I guess you accomplished that. Look at all these crazies that actually defend the Spurs against your lackluster arguments!

I cannot wait for the Spurs to play the Lakers. I think it will be highly entertaining.

But the real story will be the Lakers vs the Celtics. In fairness, the Lakers did not even play the best team last year -- they backed into the title because Garnet was injured.

They might have beaten Boston, but if the prior year was any indication they would have probably lost. I am very interested in watching them play Boston this year. I wish they played 4 times instead of just 2...

[symple19]

I'm tired of hearing about how great phil jackson is. He's overrated, big time

[rjv]

id love if both teams were at full strength. i believe a 100% bynum is a bigger deal in the matchup than a 100% manu

i almost spit out my water!!! what the hell has bynum ever done in the playoffs, or any big game for that matter????

[DrHouse]

I saw that Shannon Brown couldn't stop Brooks. This should be particularly disturbing because Brooks took over when the Rockets lost Yao after already playing without McGrady. Brooks single handedly took L.A. to 7 games. And with Yao and McGrady out, the Lakers couldn't find a way to stop him. Incidentally, Artest disappeared after the first two games of that series.

It's nice you have so much faith in Brown, but there really is no basis for assuming he can guard Parker or Paul when he couldn't guard Brooks.

No that's not an accurate statement at all.

Shannon Brown rarely, if ever, was guarding Aaron Brooks. He played the backup PG role in that series. 99% of the time he was guarding the Rocket's backup PG Lowry. The only player who got straight lit up by Brooks was Derek Fisher.

Don't take my word for it though. Go back and watch the playoff game tape of Brown against Deron Williams, Chauncey Billups, etc. He did a fine job, certainly more than adequate for what the Lakers are looking for. As long as he keeps working on his jumpshot Phil Jackson will find minutes for him next season. Remember it's Farmar the Lakers want to trade right now, they just signed Brown to a new contract.

I would like to conclude this post with a statement you all should reflect on. NBA championships are not won on the perimeter. They are won in the paint. The Lakers have never had any one player who could put the clamps on Tony Parker or even Ginobili for that matter and yet they still hold a decisive 4-1 advantage over the Spurs in this decade. Until you can truly compete in the paint, you aren't beating the Lakers.

The Lakeshow is the team to beat. They are the goal the Spurs need to reach for. Not the other way around.

[ElNono]

No that's not an accurate statement at all.

Shannon Brown rarely, if ever, was guarding Aaron Brooks.

More like he was chasing after him...

:lmao

GTFO

[DrHouse]

Oh shit Dr. House is fucking right, Shannon Brown was mostly inserted into the game when Brooks sat and Lowry went in. And furthermore when Adelman had Lowry/Brooks on the floor together Phil Jackson countered with Farmar/Brown and it was Farmar who guarded Brooks most of the time.

Shit that totally destroys my argument so I'm going to say some random shit and throw out the :lmao emoticon.

[ElNono]

http://www.nba.com/games/20090504/HOULAL/boxscore.html

Playing time:
S. Brown - 12:30
J. Farmar - 02:53


I *EPIC FAIL* at trolling again
:rollin

[thOOdee]

too be honest lakers do have the edge still, shit they are the champs. but the spurs are definitely a force to reckon with. This isn't the warriors over dallas miracle we are looking for. The spurs have the players and gained in strength and height in each position this year.

[carrao45]

I'd disagree about Bynum and Artest. Byum played terrible last year in the playoffs and was eventually benched. He missed defensive rotations and committed silly fouls. He occassionally had a decent post move, but most of his games were duds. Hard to say that he is not turning into Eric Dampier.

As for Artest, I disagree he is better than Jefferson. Artest is overrated. He took a lot of bad shots when in Houston. Shots that killed the offense and were highly contested. On defense, he showed that he couldn't keep up with the quicker players. Yes, he plays physical, but he also does not play smart. Jefferson seems to be a better scorer and better able to gel his game with the Spurs. I see Artest not working out with the Lakers.

Yeah nevermind he was coming back from a severe MCL tear...

[carrao45]

I agree that the Spurs can't win the West or another NBA championship without a healthy Ginobili.

I also agree that the Lakers still have to be considered at least a slight favorite because "a healthy Ginobili" is a pretty uncertain qualifier.

But IF Ginobili IS healthy this year (primarily in the playoffs)... these Spurs are capable of beating the Lakers. San Antonio is unquestionably back in the championship conversation, if healthy.

No, the Lakers must be considered favorites because they are currently better. regardless of health. BUT the Spurs are clearly contenders with a great chance to win it all

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Lakers are still better than SA. But it's not because of Shannon Brown, come on now.

[carrao45]

I remember when you used to be a relatively objective poster.

Let's do a little more honest assessment here:

Tony >>>>>>> Fisher
Manu << Kobe
RJ = Artest (unless you think him throwing up 10 ill-advised shots a game is a good thing)
Duncan >> Gasol
McDyess >> Bynum (Just what has Bynum done to make you think he can play at a high level? He can't even rotate defensively, let alone match the contribution of a proven player on both ends like Dice).

Blair/Boner ? Odom (Assuming Odom is healthy, how do you know Blair doesn't come in and average 8 and 10?)
GHill/Mason/JV = Farmar/Brown/Machine (Vaughn? What? Anyway, none of these players are ready for WCF basketball)
Finley = Luke = Doesn't matter. Ever.

Don't get me wrong, long term I'd rather have Bynum, because eventually, MAYBE, his upside maybe give him the ability to be a poor man's Ewing (at best), which would put him in the top 5 on the list of NBA centers.

Right now, Bynum hasn't done a freaking thing to justify his value. He's a slightly less poor-man's Kwame Brown. He's a potential headcase (as evidenced by his youtube vids) and looks absolutely lost on defense.

How about averaging 28 15 in 60% in the 5 games before he got injured. Thats what makes us think he can, it's all about tremendous upside potential. But dont let silly things like facts stop your argument...

[carrao45]

Well, I'm obviously biased, but I think the strength of the Laker team last year was obviously Kobe and Gasol. I think Lamar gave them good match up problems. And I think Ariza provided athletic wing defense that Phil has always had and used effectively (see Harper and Pippen).

I think the Lakers lose a lot defensively with Ariza leaving (equally bad move for him to go to Rockets). Artest is an overrated defender. He has his moments offensively, but he is too undisciplined to know what is or is not a good shot. Hard to see how Phil is any different than Adelman, a coach that Artest loved and had a very good relationship with. I'm just not sold on that move.

As for Farmer, he looked good two years ago. Last year, he looked like he lost all his confidence. I've always that the Machine was less than adequate. He's not the knock down shooter they pretend he is and, though active on defense, ultimately his foot speed is too slow to be an adequate defender against healthy top notch players.

Bynum, while talented, shows that even though he can string a few good games against the Clippers, T'wolves, and Grizzlies has a long way to go to prove he is worth his contract. He's not the worst center, but he is way over paid. At his best, I promise you Yao (when not injured) and Howard are still much better. And I would argue that Howard's game has a lot of flaws that he occassionally makes up for with athleticism.

Lakers need to resign Odom desperately and they need to get better at the point guard position. Houston destroyed them all because their point guard got to the rim consistently. L.A. will have it much tougher with Paul, Parker, and a healthy Williams. The point guard position is the one real weak spot. Hard to address, though, as the Mavs found out.

That in bold is one of the most retarded things i've ever seen on ST

[JGrice02]

The Lakeshow is the team to beat. They are the goal the Spurs need to reach for. Not the other way around.

Actually, I think the Celtics are the team to beat. The Lakers match up terribly against the Celtics -- especially on the front line. Garnet and Wallace will give the Laker bigs fits. The most important Laker in the Finals was probably Lamar Odom. Unfortunately for the Lakers, the Celtics have pieces that will make him irrelevant.

And I love what the Spurs did with their bigs. Their title hopes rest solely on the development of their young bigs. If those guys develop into solid contributors then the Spurs will match up well with anyone....

[carrao45]

Tony Parker > Derek Fisher
Manu Ginobili < Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan > Pau Gasol
Richard Jefferson > Ron Artest
Antonio McDyess > Andrew Bynum

Obviously Tony is better than Derek. Obviously Kobe is better than Manu. Obviously Timmy is better than Pau. Richard Jefferson and Ron Artest is basically a tossup, imo. I give the edge to RJ because of my Spurs bias and the fact that RJ is a high character guy, not a headcase, and a guy one would consider coachable. I think Bynum will be a fine center next year. I just think right now McDyess possesses more skill and talent than Andrew, which is not far-fetched at all. In a couple years, if Bynum can live up to his hype than obviously he'll be better than a 37 year old McDyess.

Spurs Bench = Lakers Bench

I don't really want to breakdown the backups, but I will say: If you judge Bynum negatively because he hasn't really done anything, than how can you judge Blair positively? Anyways, I think both will do fine next year. But unlike Bynum, Blair basically serves two purposes: good defense and rebounding. Rebounding, which I think Blair will dominate, even as a rookie. Defense is something he'll have to work on to get up to par with the NBA level. For what the Spurs want him to do, DeJuan Blair will do that at a high level. Almost the same thing for Matt Bonner, but not quite. Bonner will be much more effective when he is not forced into a position where he has to start and start at center/PF. So if you think he's gonna suck as much as he did last year, think again. Of course, I can only hope Pop won't turn to him in clutch moments, haha. So when I reach the conclusion of Odom > Bonner + Blair, I reach it in terms of talent. In which case Odom crushes Bonner and Blair. In a similar position as Bonner and Blair is Finley. Finley will hopefully and in good logic from Pop, get limited to around 10-15 mpg. Finley is a clutch player with a good shot, and brings the overrated veteran leadership to help guide the younger guys. Finley will be again, like Blair and Bonner, more effective than he was last year, in a position where he is not forced to start. Let's not forget Roger Mason and George Hill. Both are high quality backups and decent starters, if ever need be.

When you consider it all, I believe the Spurs would be beat the Lakers in the Western Conference Finals, and possibly go on to win the NBA Finals. Hey, it might require some luck to get Manu healthy, but the Spurs are the only challengers, imo, to the Lakers' throne. :flag:

Yeah Boston can't challenge or anything...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Oh look the scared little bitch is back to post about how bad our moves are. :rolleyes

Better hope you resign Odom, snapon.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yeah nevermind he was coming back from a severe MCL tear...

In the real world, severe injuries mean that the player will not return to previous levels of performance.

[Nathan Explosion]

How about averaging 28 15 in 60% in the 5 games before he got injured. Thats what makes us think he can, it's all about tremendous upside potential. But dont let silly things like facts stop your argument...

You're basing your entire hope on 5 games? How about how he did for the entire season before the injury?

[carrao45]

You cant tell me the defense is not gonna be better with RJ and Dice in the starting lineup....

You think RJ is a good defender?
:lmao

[carrao45]

For some reason Bynum has a 20 point 10 rebound game against the Grizzlies, follows with a 14 point 9 rebound game against the Clippers, and all of the sudden the Lakers are acting like he is right up there with Kareem, Shaq, and the other legendary Laker big men.

Yet when he gets relegated to the bench in the playoffs, where the talent is that much better, the Laker fans talk about his potential.

Kind of reminds me of Dampier, actually.

42 and 15 against the Clips, but dont let facts stop you

[Rummpd]

BS to this column = Spurs at full strength would roll the LAL!

[Nathan Explosion]

42 and 15 against the Clips, but dont let facts stop you

Read that again and tell me it's some sort of great accomplishment.

[carrao45]

Um, except those times when they didn't beat the Spurs...

There isn't a PG in the league that can stay with Parker. But of course, you must realize this. Your goal is not to make cogent points but rather to stir the pot. I guess you accomplished that. Look at all these crazies that actually defend the Spurs against your lackluster arguments!

I cannot wait for the Spurs to play the Lakers. I think it will be highly entertaining.

But the real story will be the Lakers vs the Celtics. In fairness, the Lakers did not even play the best team last year -- they backed into the title because Garnet was injured.

They might have beaten Boston, but if the prior year was any indication they would have probably lost. I am very interested in watching them play Boston this year. I wish they played 4 times instead of just 2...

Again don't bother remembering the Lakers beat Boston twice this year. And once in Botson, on the second night of a back to back, third game in 4 days, w/o their starting center, who had been playing excellent balll.
And LA would have had HC in the finals.
And in both of those games the Lakers stopped the Celtics 19+ and 16+ winning streaks

[rayray2k8]

Yeah Boston can't challenge or anything...

Worry about the west before you concern yourself about the Celtics.

[carrao45]

Actually, I think the Celtics are the team to beat. The Lakers match up terribly against the Celtics -- especially on the front line. Garnet and Wallace will give the Laker bigs fits. The most important Laker in the Finals was probably Lamar Odom. Unfortunately for the Lakers, the Celtics have pieces that will make him irrelevant.

And I love what the Spurs did with their bigs. Their title hopes rest solely on the development of their young bigs. If those guys develop into solid contributors then the Spurs will match up well with anyone....

Who on boston can guard Odom?
Lakers Artest can guard Pierce though. La and Boston Both got better this year, while LA was better than Boston last year

[carrao45]

In the real world, severe injuries mean that the player will not return to previous levels of performance.

Plently of players have come back. Besides he's only 21

[carrao45]

You're basing your entire hope on 5 games? How about how he did for the entire season before the injury?

The guy said what has he done to make us think he can be good...i answered.

IM not saying he will be, just that he has the potential to be

[carrao45]

Read that again and tell me it's some sort of great accomplishment.

42 and 15 is a great game regardless of who you play against.
Obviously it would have meant more if he had gotten that against SA, but 42 and 15 against NBA competition is still great

[cd98]

No that's not an accurate statement at all.

Shannon Brown rarely, if ever, was guarding Aaron Brooks. He played the backup PG role in that series. 99% of the time he was guarding the Rocket's backup PG Lowry. The only player who got straight lit up by Brooks was Derek Fisher.

Don't take my word for it though. Go back and watch the playoff game tape of Brown against Deron Williams, Chauncey Billups, etc. He did a fine job, certainly more than adequate for what the Lakers are looking for. As long as he keeps working on his jumpshot Phil Jackson will find minutes for him next season. Remember it's Farmar the Lakers want to trade right now, they just signed Brown to a new contract.

I would like to conclude this post with a statement you all should reflect on. NBA championships are not won on the perimeter. They are won in the paint. The Lakers have never had any one player who could put the clamps on Tony Parker or even Ginobili for that matter and yet they still hold a decisive 4-1 advantage over the Spurs in this decade. Until you can truly compete in the paint, you aren't beating the Lakers.

The Lakeshow is the team to beat. They are the goal the Spurs need to reach for. Not the other way around.

Assuming your claims are true, then that can only indicate one of two things. Either Phil Jackson knew Brown was not good enough to guard Brooks and so he didn't call his number, or Phil Jackson is a crappy coach that couldn't make the single most important adjustment of that series. I think it has a little more to do with you overrating Brown. BTW, with the dearth of point guards in the NBA free agent market, why was he bought for so cheap? Why was there no market for him?

[JGrice02]

Again don't bother remembering the Lakers beat Boston twice this year. And once in Botson, on the second night of a back to back, third game in 4 days, w/o their starting center, who had been playing excellent balll.
And LA would have had HC in the finals.
And in both of those games the Lakers stopped the Celtics 19+ and 16+ winning streaks

Wow. Now you are REALLY digging yourself into a hole. I cannot remember how many times I heard the ole "regular season" argument from Mavs fans desperate to prop themselves up.

Didn't Orlando sweep the regular season against the Lakers? How relevant was that? Basing an argument on the regular season is suicidal. I guess its easier to forget a 39 point Finals loss actually happened than to try and defend how its not relevant...

[Cry Havoc]

The guy said what has he done to make us think he can be good...i answered.

IM not saying he will be, just that he has the potential to be

The original point being argued is that Bynum is better than Manu in a playoff game.

You took up that argument. Now you say it's about "potential".

Typical circular argument from a Lakers fan.


http://www.nba.com/games/20090504/HOULAL/boxscore.html

Playing time:
S. Brown - 12:30
J. Farmar - 02:53


:rollin

Also had to point out this complete ownage of Mr. House that he never commented on.

Nice :pimpslap ElNono.

Care to comment now, House?

[carrao45]

Wow. Now you are REALLY digging yourself into a hole. I cannot remember how many times I heard the ole "regular season" argument from Mavs fans desperate to prop themselves up.

Didn't Orlando sweep the regular season against the Lakers? How relevant was that? Basing an argument on the regular season is suicidal. I guess its easier to forget a 39 point Finals loss actually happened than to try and defend how its not relevant...

In 2008 Boston was clearly better.

If Boston had made the 09 finals, the Lakers would have had HC, which would have been huge, and im just saying the Lakers were better in 09, evidenced by beating Boston by 9 in LA and in Overtime in Boston. Do you know how hard OT in Boston would be? Considering Boston has perhaps the loudest Fans in the NBA.
The Orlando games both went down to the wire.
The LA-Boston games would not.

That being said LA v Boston in 09 would have gone 7 games IMO

[carrao45]

The original point being argued is that Bynum is better than Manu in a playoff game.

You took up that argument. Now you say it's about "potential".

Typical circular argument from a Lakers fan.



Also had to point out this complete ownage of Mr. House that he never commented on.

Nice :pimpslap ElNono.

Care to comment now, House?

LOL no dude i wasnt trying to say Bynum has more Impact than Ginobili. he doesnt

[JGrice02]

In 2008 Boston was clearly better.

If Boston had made the 09 finals, the Lakers would have had HC, which would have been huge, and im just saying the Lakers were better in 09, evidenced by beating Boston by 9 in LA and in Overtime in Boston. Do you know how hard OT in Boston would be? Considering Boston has perhaps the loudest Fans in the NBA.
The Orlando games both went down to the wire.
The LA-Boston games would not.

That being said LA v Boston in 09 would have gone 7 games IMO

Actually, we don't know who would have gotten HC since Garnett was out the last 25 games. I believe their records were identical when he went down. But it doesn't really matter. I think the better team always wins, regardless of HC. Maybe the Lakers would have won, but Boston would have been the definitive favorite if their team stayed healthy all season...

[The_Game]

Boston failed to replace posey or brown...they would not been the favourites. Their bench had big holes that they can't did not replace..losing james posey was a big blow to their bench. They may of won it all but who knows...just like who knows if we would of been able to beat them with a healthly bynum or ariza...you can never tell. injuries are part of the game and it's tough to go through what if's.

[z0sa]

Boston failed to replace posey or brown...they would not been the favourites. Their bench had big holes that they can't did not replace..losing james posey was a big blow to their bench. They may of won it all but who knows...just like who knows if we would of been able to beat them with a healthly bynum or ariza...you can never tell. injuries are part of the game and it's tough to go through what if's.



What if SA/Boston/Houston/Orlando/Denver/Hawks etc didnt have major injury problems?

LA wouldn't own a 15 title.

[The_Game]

What if SA/Boston/Houston/Orlando/Denver/Hawks etc didnt have major injury problems?

LA wouldn't own a 15 title.

:sleep

Lakers are better than all those teams even when healthly....Boston is the only team you could argue would be able to beat the Lakers out of that group. Denver had injury problems? since when? and the Hawks? you even mentioning them makes you a clear Laker hater...hard to respect people's point of view when you are blinded by hate.

[Vito Corleone]

when did RJ turn into MJ????

Artest >> RJ

When did time reverse itself and this suddenly become 2006? That was about the last time Artest was better than RJ.

Artest is not a smart player
Artest takes too many stupid shots
Artest plays for Artest
Artest makes Wacko Rodman look like David Robinson

You guys think that he will be on his best behavior, but he is about to be thrown into the 2nd biggest media market on the biggest stage in the NBA.

And this is a guy who just threw up some freaky youtube trubute to Michael Jackson and expressed some kind of wacky prophecy that he will be joining Jackson some time next year.

I'm telling you the guy is going to make the Shaq/Kobe thing look tame.

RJ on the other hand will fit in perfectly with the Spurs, he is high character guy that does exactly what we need and we got him for basically nothing since we likely will be getting Bowen back.

[JGrice02]

Boston failed to replace posey or brown...they would not been the favourites. Their bench had big holes that they can't did not replace..losing james posey was a big blow to their bench. They may of won it all but who knows...just like who knows if we would of been able to beat them with a healthly bynum or ariza...you can never tell. injuries are part of the game and it's tough to go through what if's.

True, their depth was not as great. But their play at PG was much better. You did see Rondo during the playoffs, right? He played as good as any PG in the playoffs -- a distinct advantage now for Boston that was not present two years ago.

[Pucho!!!]

I think Artest wants to be in LA more for the fame than for the ring. I think right now, Ariza is the better all-around defender. If u had a team with Ariza and Artest, who would u have guard the best perimeter player on the other team? IMHO, Ariza

[waly.mg]

It's going to be a great matchup, I think the Lakers still hold the edge with Odom/bench

Tony Parker >>>>> Fisher
Manu << Kobe
RJ<<Artest
Duncan >> Gasol
McDyess << Bynum

Blair/Boner <<<<< Odom
GHill/Mason/JV < Farmar/Brown/Machine
Finley > Luke

May be, may be

The fact here is the number of shots

Parker shoot more than Fisher, Kobe than Manu, Artest sometimes shoot too much, Duncan = Gasol, McDyess = Bynum

In Point per Shot:

Parker 1.25 vs Fisher 1.18
Manu 1.39 vs Kobe 1.29
Jefferson 1.32 vs Artest 1.18
Gasol 1.46 vs Duncan 1.31
McDyess 1.14 vs Bynum 1.42

Every game
Parker > Fisher
Kobe > Manu
Gasol = Duncan

Sometimes
McDyes = Bynum
Jefferson > Artestand sometimes Artest > Jefferson

So:
The Lakers lost Ariza and won Artest
The Spurs won Jefferson and McDyes

Lakers 09 = Lakers 09-10
Spurs 09 < Spurs 09-10

[Vito Corleone]

If we are judging Bynum on his great potential then why are we not giving the same consideration to Blair and Mahamini? Blair is a rebounding machine, and Ian is a 6'11 280 lb athletic freak. I actually think Ian will be our starting center next year next to Tim. Ian had a freak accident last year and it pretty much cost him the whole season, well he is now healthy and will be turning some heads with his play.

[jack0fspeed]

Until proven otherwise, the Lakers still have the edge on everyone else. But the difference is a lot smaller.

Whoever wins the West is going to have to win 2 very tough series.

[The_Game]

If we are judging Bynum on his great potential then why are we not giving the same consideration to Blair and Mahamini? Blair is a rebounding machine, and Ian is a 6'11 280 lb athletic freak. I actually think Ian will be our starting center next year next to Tim. Ian had a freak accident last year and it pretty much cost him the whole season, well he is now healthy and will be turning some heads with his play.

Bynum has proven he can dominate teams in this league..granted limited amount of games but he is still proven he can play at this level...those two havn't.

[Cry Havoc]

If we are judging Bynum on his great potential then why are we not giving the same consideration to Blair and Mahamini? Blair is a rebounding machine, and Ian is a 6'11 280 lb athletic freak. I actually think Ian will be our starting center next year next to Tim. Ian had a freak accident last year and it pretty much cost him the whole season, well he is now healthy and will be turning some heads with his play.

I'd like I vbookie on who will average more rebounds per minute next year, Blair or Bynum. :lol

[cd98]

How about averaging 28 15 in 60% in the 5 games before he got injured. Thats what makes us think he can, it's all about tremendous upside potential. But dont let silly things like facts stop your argument...

Who were those games against?

Wow. He had a stretch where he played good for 5 games. All in the regular season. Probably all against bad teams with no centers. Keep impressing us.

Let's see him do it for 82 games and the post season before you start acting like he's one of the best players in the NBA.

[z0sa]

:sleep

Lakers are better than all those teams even when healthly....Boston is the only team you could argue would be able to beat the Lakers out of that group. Denver had injury problems? since when? and the Hawks? you even mentioning them makes you a clear Laker hater...hard to respect people's point of view when you are blinded by hate.

Carmelo was obviously injured the whole series, dunno how you missed it.

No hate. Just facts. LA lucked into health while everyone else didn't. The end.

BTW, your team was NOT better than all of these teams. Their 16-7 record proved it. The 03 Spurs went 16-8 and Tim didn't have anyone near Pau or Odom's level.

[cd98]

I think Artest wants to be in LA more for the fame than for the ring. I think right now, Ariza is the better all-around defender. If u had a team with Ariza and Artest, who would u have guard the best perimeter player on the other team? IMHO, Ariza

Absolutely agree. This is about him marketing his show biz credit. He could have gotten more money and playing time in Houston.

[cd98]

Bynum has proven he can dominate teams in this league..granted limited amount of games but he is still proven he can play at this level...those two havn't.

Dominate the Clippers?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Plently of players have come back. Besides he's only 21

coming back does not mean returning to equal performance. knee reconstruction has a long history of robbing players of much of their athleticism.

mcdyess certainly plays above the rim still but if you compare his time in denver when he could leap out of the building to his time after the surgery and its night and day.

you basically have 10 games of him playing and a whole bunch of knee injuries. in two years hes dislocated his knee cap and tore his MCL. In both cases his recovery took longer than expected and when he did finally come back he still wasn't healthy enough to play worth half a flip highlighted by his benching for sucking.

Stability issues and slow recoveries do not bode well for future performance. why do you think blair fell to the second round? He fell after 2 years of good health because knee issues like that have a history of crippling players.

This is even before you consider that hes an unproven talent nitwithstanding Laker Koolaid claims of ten games of dominance.

[Ace9]

http://elibrary.bigchalk.com/drsservice/servicemanager/do/service?serviceid=getcomponent&docid=98403783&mt=image%2Fjpeg&ts=3033324632443243333032443032&doclocation=05%2FDD%2F85%2FC7.jpg

:lol I just had to.

[will_spurs]

So... Kobe is the best player in the NBA... the Spurs will never win w/o a healthy Manu (I guess Holt better sell the franchise when Manu retires)... and losing Ariza and maybe Odom isn't an issue.

Looks like a die-hard Lakers fan trying to keep his hopes up.

[poeticism707]

So... Kobe is the best player in the NBA... the Spurs will never win w/o a healthy Manu (I guess Holt better sell the franchise when Manu retires)... and losing Ariza and maybe Odom isn't an issue.

Looks like a die-hard Lakers fan trying to keep his hopes up.
:king

[DrHouse]

The Lakers are the best team in the NBA until proven otherwise.

Assuming they resign Odom they will be an even better team next season than they were this season.

[Cry Havoc]

The Lakers are the best team in the NBA until proven otherwise.

Assuming they resign Odom they will be an even better team next season than they were this season.


http://www.nba.com/games/20090504/HOULAL/boxscore.html

Playing time:
S. Brown - 12:30
J. Farmar - 02:53

DrHouse, care to respond?

[SpurOutofTownFan]

4 things:

- This guy smells like a Laker's kool aid drinker
- This was done before the adquisition of Dice
- Clear desire for Manu not to be healthy
- Premature ejaculation

[iggypop123]

i hate this board. its either - anybody on the lakers is overrated and the spurs will win cause they got better or the lakers are the best we will win. im more on the middle. anybody that says artest to the lakers is bad is stupid. jefferson is a good player but to say they will overtake the lakers outright is dumb. manu isnt even the 2nd best player on his team. he is that bad now i dont see these arguments about him being the second coming of jordan

[spurspf]

No that's not an accurate statement at all.

Shannon Brown rarely, if ever, was guarding Aaron Brooks. He played the backup PG role in that series. 99% of the time he was guarding the Rocket's backup PG Lowry. The only player who got straight lit up by Brooks was Derek Fisher.

Don't take my word for it though. Go back and watch the playoff game tape of Brown against Deron Williams, Chauncey Billups, etc. He did a fine job, certainly more than adequate for what the Lakers are looking for. As long as he keeps working on his jumpshot Phil Jackson will find minutes for him next season. Remember it's Farmar the Lakers want to trade right now, they just signed Brown to a new contract.

I would like to conclude this post with a statement you all should reflect on. NBA championships are not won on the perimeter. They are won in the paint. The Lakers have never had any one player who could put the clamps on Tony Parker or even Ginobili for that matter and yet they still hold a decisive 4-1 advantage over the Spurs in this decade. Until you can truly compete in the paint, you aren't beating the Lakers.

The Lakeshow is the team to beat. They are the goal the Spurs need to reach for. Not the other way around.



Tony Parker, top of the key, dribbling the ball. Right in front of him, Shannon Brown. If you don't foresee a layup, you sir are a dumbass.

[The_Game]

Rj is better than Artest.........hes a better shooter, finisher, FT shooter and at least as good a defender. I give Artest the edge in passing.

Everything you say from now on should be ignored because that is a load of crap...Jefferson has never been close to the defender Artest is. Even though Artest isn't what he was he is still ahead of Jefferson defensively..stupid to suggest otherwise.


As far as LAs bench- one would be foolish to believe that SA is not at least as good so long as Blair who many believe could avg 12ppg and 12rpg now- and Ian can give us good mins. Sasha is a bum, Walton is avg at best.

:lol Blair 12 and 12 guy? on what planet? there is a reason why he was drafted so low in one of the weakness drafts EVER and it wasn't all due to injury..stop overrating him it makes you look foolish.


Last year a healthy Spurs team would have given LA all they could handle, this year we add major upgrades while at best LA stayed stable and yet they are heavy favs???


Who said anything about being heavy favourites? Lakers are favourites and should be..why is that some kind of stupid statement? lakers are the champs and have a super talented team...doesn't mean they can't be beat.

[Spursmania]

Tony Parker, top of the key, dribbling the ball. Right in front of him, Shannon Brown. If you don't foresee a layup, you sir are a dumbass.


Thanks for the imagery. Looking forward to seeing this.

[antimvp]

Duncan > GASOL, BYNUM, ODOM combined

you lose.

[Spurs_210]

The last couple of post is saddening to be a Spurs fan. Blair a 12/12 guy? RJ as good as a defender as Artest? Yes offensively no doubt RJ is better but hands down Artest is the better defender. Blair was a beast in college but this is the NBA. He is a 0/0 guy until proven otherwise.

[Spurs9]

I'm not scared one bit of the Lakers. There championship was one of the weakest I can remember. Gasol and Bynum are both pussies, and the talent level after Kobe drops off pretty good. Farmar is garbage, they lost ariza who bailed them out a few critical games, and Artest is a nutjob.

[CaptainLate]

Blair is a rebounding machine, and Ian is a 6'11 280 lb athletic freak. I actually think Ian will be our starting center next year next to Tim.

You mean to say that Ian has gained about 60 lbs since he was drafted?

[ginobilized]

Hopefully this is all true. I like the Spurs as the underdog.
That's the best position to be in come playoff time.
See you next spring and good luck Lakers.

[SA210]

The Laker's don't have to worry about Bruce disrupting Kobe's game anymore, heck, maybe they even pick him up and shutdown Manu while they're at it.

:pop::pctoss

[The_Game]

As far as thinking its a reason Blair drafted so low......Why was Tony drafted behind 6 other pgs? Wasnt Manu drafted second to last pick in the draft? Wasnt Scola drafted very low???? If I recall Candy man was drafted first overall, Sam Bowie drafted over MJ, Darko went over Melo and Wade and Bosh................Point being, Ill spell it out for you, its not where your drafted that effects the type of player you will be.

And lastly, I dont believe Blair will avg 12 and 12 for the spurs this year, I do think on many teams he could. Blair dominated the paint last year just as Larry Johnson did at UNLV. Blair destroyed the second overall pick twice last year. His rebounding rate translates to a guy averaging 18rpg in the pros. He is a beast that many teams wanted to take but have a policy against taking red med flagged players at any spot in the draft!!!

Make sure you sign on this year when he eats Gasols ass in the paint. Do your homework kid, go find video on Blair againt Thabeet and tell me this guy is gonna struggle in the NBA. He was an absolute steal in the second round. Spurs even tried to get into the lottery on draft night to take him. The guy dominated against several teams that over the next year will produce lottery Centers.....Florida St, Louv, GTown and Uconn as well as crushed several big east teams that are know for very good D in the Paint....Xavier, Syc, W Va..ect..

We got a big, who avg 15ppg and 12rpg 1.5steals while shooting 60% from the floor with the 37th pick in the draft

Thabeets numbers-13.6 and 11 while playing 5 more mpg!

:lol:lol:lol

Some of the comparisions you just mentioned are laughable....I played abit of college basketball and even played minutes in the NCAA tourney and full well know the difference between playing great in college compared to the highest level.

Adam Morrison was freaking college player of the year, was a high draft pick and we all know how good of an NBA player he is. wow he averaged 15 and 12..big deal there are plenty of players who averaged that in college that aren't going to do shit in the NBA...bringing up stats isn't going to make your point any stronger.

Blair COULD average 12 and 12? NO HE FREAKING COULDN'T....not even on the worse team in the league.

Blair is going to be soild...there is nothing in his game that suggests he will do anything in this league for at a few years.

[The_Game]

OK PEREZ HILTON!!! Have you ever watched basketball? Artest was a great defender 3 years and 25lbs ago. He is now to slow to keep pace with quicker 2s and 3s.

Says who? you? thats like saying Manu is DONE because he is injured and old...doesn't work that way son

Artest is still an ELITE defender...he gives plenty of guys problems on defense. He may not be as quick as he was but he still gives bigger guys nightmares. He is so strong in the post...guys like Lebron, Pierce, Melo are guys who he guards real well which will help L.A in the post season.


Jefferson came into the NBA as a defender and slasher.....the knock on him was he couldnt shoot, which he seems to have improved the last couple years. Jefferson is a guy who keeps to himself, does not beat his chest or anyone else, doesnt make shitty rap albums that no-one buys, nor does he talk as if he is the best player in the NBA when its obvious hes a third wheel.

WTF? what the hell has him being a good guy got to do with how good a player he is? Jefferson is a good scorer who now plays below average defense...he was a good defender but hasn't done shit the last two years guarding anybody.



Artest is a slow witted, slow footed hot head who jacks up way too many shots, cant run the wing on the break, and will have a hard time defending Manu or RJ.

Yeah Artest is not as quick as he used to be but that somehow means he is suddenly not going to still be an elite defender? why will he have a hard time defending Manu or RJ? you act like those two are some kind of unstoppable forces...Artest will give RJ real problems with his length and strength...as for manu lets see how he quick he is anymore given his injury problems


Good luck to you clowns this year, your gonna need it. I do like Laker fans being on our board, but guys like you have less Basketball knowledge than one of my ball hairs, so please stop posting untill you get a clue.


Says the guy who think Blair can average 12 and 12 this year

FREAKING MORON

your whole post about Blair makes you unable to ever call somebody else out for lack of basketball knowledge. You are clearly some 15 year old kid who likely has never picked up a basketball in his life and just lives on his nice little stats.

[DrHouse]

You cannot say Blair is a better player than ANYONE in the NBA for the sole reason that he has not EVEN PLAYED ONE FUCKING MINUTE OF NBA BASKETBALL.

If he was as good as you say he is, he would have been picked up WAY earlier in this incredibly weak draft.

[carrao45]

Duncan > GASOL, BYNUM, ODOM combined

you lose.

Haha how stupid could you be?
He's better than all of them, but not close to better than them combined

[carrao45]

So... Kobe is the best player in the NBA... the Spurs will never win w/o a healthy Manu (I guess Holt better sell the franchise when Manu retires)... and losing Ariza and maybe Odom isn't an issue.

Looks like a die-hard Lakers fan trying to keep his hopes up.

The Spurs cant win w/o a healthy Manu, that's not keeping hopes up. That's making a comment based on the last two years