Loyalty

[Fabbs]

We hear a lot about how the Spurs FO and Coaching dictator -i mean coach and staff are loyal.

Q. Why was Bowen let go and Finley retained?

I know Bowens 4 mill might be considered too much, but matador D Finley will be getting 2.5 so its only a 1.5 difference.

Bowen:
With the team for all 3 2000+ decade championships.
Does whatever the team asked of him. Played almost every game for every year he was here.

Coatails Fin was superb in 2007, otherwise all he has done is stole minutes, gone 1-4 including two lost playoff series to the team that paid him $20 million a year to go away. All the blather about Fins shooting, Bowen matched him in the reg season and outshot him in last years playoffs. Now lets talk defense. No lets not.
"Spurs are a defense first team and military Pop demands defense." Save that b.s. Was true 2005 and back. Since then its a joke.

So i know Milwaukee can buy out Bowen and we can get him back and I'd welcome Bruce back.
If we don't, and Finley stays,

What loyalty?

[HarlemHeat37]

Bowen got us Jefferson due to the nature of his contract..

[Libri]

Finley had a player option. He chose to stay.

[SA210]

We hear a lot about how the Spurs FO and Coaching dictator -i mean coach and staff are loyal.

Q. Why was Bowen let go and Finley retained?

I know Bowens 4 mill might be considered too much, but matador D Finley will be getting 2.5 so its only a 1.5 difference.

Bowen:
With the team for all 3 2000+ decade championships.
Does whatever the team asked of him. Played almost every game for every year he was here.

Coatails Fin was superb in 2007, otherwise all he has done is stole minutes, gone 1-4 including two lost playoff series to the team that paid him $20 million a year to go away. All the blather about Fins shooting, Bowen matched him in the reg season and outshot him in last years playoffs. Now lets talk defense. No lets not.
"Spurs are a defense first team and military Pop demands defense." Save that b.s. Was true 2005 and back. Since then its a joke.

So i know Milwaukee can buy out Bowen and we can get him back and I'd welcome Bruce back.
If we don't, and Finley stays,

What loyalty?

I couldn't have said it better, Great thread, We are going to regret not having Bruce. I called it before, and I call it now. We will regret it. People can be happy about our signings this offseason, but the bottom line is, we have NOONE to slow down both Kobe and Artest. Or even Lebron.

Pop sold out. It used to be that if you didn't play defense, you didn't get playing time. Now Don Nelson is our coach. nah actually, Nelson knew how to get his players to score.

Great thread. Actually the best thread topic this offseason, the most important one. :tu

:pop::pctoss

[scottspurs]

Loyalty to the fans. Loyalty to Duncan. Loyalty to putting a championship team out there. That is where the Spurs Loyalty lies.

[coyotes_geek]

Q. Why was Bowen let go and Finley retained?


A1. Salaries wouldn't have matched with Finley instead of Bowen.
A2. The CBA rules didn't allow the Spurs to trade Finley while the status of his player option was unknown.

[anakha]

A1. Salaries wouldn't have matched with Finley instead of Bowen.
A2. The CBA rules didn't allow the Spurs to trade Finley while the status of his player option was unknown.

Shh, don't confuse him with the facts.

[Solid D]

"Loyalty"
http://www.bballone.com/dereka/trailblazers/images/trailblazers27_resize.jpg


Fond memories

[FromWayDowntown]

Because Finley hadn't opted in for 2009-10, he couldn't have been traded on the date of the trade; had the Spurs waited, they might not have acquired Jefferson. And even if he had opted in, Bowen was a necessary piece for a trade that the Spurs HAD to make to have any chance to remain relevant.

This thread is pointless.

[itzsoweezee]

to people talking about salaries, bowen could come back, but he's not going to.

popovich burned that bridge. he's shown more love to scrubs like finley, boner, vaughn than one of the most important spurs players this decade. that's not loyalty.

[loveforthegame]

It wasn't about who to keep: Bowen or Finley.

The trade was done because Bowen and Oberto's contracts were partially guaranteed and matched salary wise.

[SpursFanInAustin]

I couldn't have said it better, Great thread, We are going to regret not having Bruce. I called it before, and I call it now. We will regret it. People can be happy about our signings this offseason, but the bottom line is, we have NOONE to slow down both Kobe and Artest. Or even Lebron.

Pop sold out. It used to be that if you didn't play defense, you didn't get playing time. Now Don Nelson is our coach. nah actually, Nelson knew how to get his players to score.

Great thread. Actually the best thread topic this offseason, the most important one. :tu

:pop::pctoss

Is Bowen going to slow down Kobe and Artest and LeBron at age 45? Most Spurs fans complained that the Spurs were too old and needed some youth but then cry when the oldest player on the team was let go. I don't get it. I like Bowen and enjoyed his tenure here. Would I like him back? Sure, but I won't cry if he's not.

[Fabbs]

Bowen got us Jefferson due to the nature of his contract..
The only pachage Milwaukee would have accepted? Perhaps. Why was it let to come to that tho? (Finley after 2007 getting the ridiculous multiyear contract w player option, Bonner and Flabs getting multiyears, Scola -oh lets not go there!)

libri
Finley had a player option. He chose to stay.
A better description would be Finley was given a player option and 30+ min per game. Goes right to the heart of the loyalty question. He didn't earn either, why was he given it?

[completely deck]

It's a business. These things happen, quit taking it so personally.

[exstatic]

It's a business. These things happen, quit taking it so personally.

Exactly. Bruce was essentially rescued from obscurity, and kept on a team that valued him for 8 seasons, and paid millions. Every player gets too old at some point. Bruce had reached that point. Any time you have a partially guaranteed contract, you need to prepare to be gone. It's the nature of the business.

They don't call it ShowFriends, they call it ShowBusiness.

[Agloco]

We hear a lot about how the Spurs FO and Coaching dictator -i mean coach and staff are loyal.

Q. Why was Bowen let go and Finley retained?

I know Bowens 4 mill might be considered too much, but matador D Finley will be getting 2.5 so its only a 1.5 difference.

Bowen:
With the team for all 3 2000+ decade championships.
Does whatever the team asked of him. Played almost every game for every year he was here.

Coatails Fin was superb in 2007, otherwise all he has done is stole minutes, gone 1-4 including two lost playoff series to the team that paid him $20 million a year to go away. All the blather about Fins shooting, Bowen matched him in the reg season and outshot him in last years playoffs. Now lets talk defense. No lets not.
"Spurs are a defense first team and military Pop demands defense." Save that b.s. Was true 2005 and back. Since then its a joke.

So i know Milwaukee can buy out Bowen and we can get him back and I'd welcome Bruce back.
If we don't, and Finley stays,

What loyalty?

You really need to study up on the nature of their respective contracts. Try again once you have.

[BackHome]

Maybe it had to do with the fact the Bruce is going to be 39 years old at the start of next season.

[Nathan Explosion]

The Bucks didn't want a guaranteed contract. The partially guaranteed contracts of Bowen and Fabs were appropriate because it was cheaper to cut them than to keep them. The Bucks don't want to take on salary.

Charlie Villanueva was let go even though everyone though the Jefferson trade was done to clear cap space to keep Villanueva. So that shows what financial state the Bucks are in at the moment.

I don't think any other package would have done the job.

[crc21209]

Maybe it had to do with the fact the Bruce is going to be 39 years old at the start of next season.

Yup. Sometimes it's just time to hang em' up...but no doubt #12 will one day be up there in the rafters. Here's to you Bruce Bowen :toast, thanks for everything. You deserve those three rings.

[Russ]

We all like loyalty. But appeals to loyalty, like patriotism, are often misused (usually by persons with little of either).

Finley is no less deserving of the Spurs' loyalty than Bowen, or Bonner or just about any other Spur who showed up every day and did their job.

Personnel decisions, on the other hand, are rarely based upon loyalty -- jusy ask Brent Barry about the night he almost got traded for someone unlikely to exhibit Brent's loyalty (but younger and quicker).

[raspsa]

Bowen's not complaining.

[superbigtime]

Maybe it had to do with the fact the Bruce is going to be 39 years old at the start of next season.

Yes. People need to quit ignoring that.

[ChumpDumper]

I sense a general misunderstanding born of irrational prejudice.

[Biggems]

I would rather have Bowen than Finley.

However, at the time of the trade, Finley was basically a Free Agent with the option to sign with the Spurs or renounce his contract and try to sign with another team. Finley didn't exercise the player option in his contract until after the trade for Jefferson. In fact, didn't he wait until after the Draft to sign?

I just hope that if we don't get Bruce back, that he gets quality minutes up there in Milwaukee.

[ambchang]

I would suggest that only people with 1 or more posts than Fabbs be able to open new threads.

Just a display of the total lack of understanding of the business side of the NBA.

[MosesGuthrie]

I'm all for loyalty as well but my loyalty is to the name on the front of the jersey not the back. Trading Bowen made this team better and that is most important.

[Drachen]

We hear a lot about how the Spurs FO and Coaching dictator -i mean coach and staff are loyal.

Q. Why was Bowen let go and Finley retained?

I know Bowens 4 mill might be considered too much, but matador D Finley will be getting 2.5 so its only a 1.5 difference.

Bowen:
With the team for all 3 2000+ decade championships.
Does whatever the team asked of him. Played almost every game for every year he was here.

Coatails Fin was superb in 2007, otherwise all he has done is stole minutes, gone 1-4 including two lost playoff series to the team that paid him $20 million a year to go away. All the blather about Fins shooting, Bowen matched him in the reg season and outshot him in last years playoffs. Now lets talk defense. No lets not.
"Spurs are a defense first team and military Pop demands defense." Save that b.s. Was true 2005 and back. Since then its a joke.

So i know Milwaukee can buy out Bowen and we can get him back and I'd welcome Bruce back.
If we don't, and Finley stays,

What loyalty?

When people ask about our defense last year, I have to ask, did you even pay attention to where we ended up ranked defensively last year??

[venitian navigator]

Bowen, when asked if he would come back to spurs if there was the chance to come back said : absolutely.
I don't know if for the spurs he's still an option, in case he get cut, but he could be...and given the gueranteed salary plus the veteran's minimum for the lot of years he played in the league, he would not lose a lot of the 4 millions money of his contract.
However, the point is tha before that Spurs have to move again trading some other pieces (Bonner, Finley, M. Williams for example) just to free some spots.....

[Fabbs]

When people ask about our defense last year, I have to ask, did you even pay attention to where we ended up ranked defensively last year??
Yes. Dallas cleaned our clock 4-1
Twice Dallas went over 100 points, once 99.

In critical game 3 the Spurs Poppycock Defense *held* them to 88 while the Poppycock Offense put up 67 points.

[Fabbs]

Bowen, when asked if he would come back to spurs if there was the chance to come back said : absolutely.
I don't know if for the spurs he's still an option, in case he get cut, but he could be...and given the gueranteed salary plus the veteran's minimum for the lot of years he played in the league, he would not lose a lot of the 4 millions money of his contract.
However, the point is tha before that Spurs have to move again trading some other pieces (Bonner, Finley, M. Williams for example) just to free some spots.....
Bruce coming back and Finley shipped out would indeed be loyalty.

For the legit posters (and also the trolls) who point out Finley was not yet on the roster when Bruce was sent, again, why was Finley even given this option back when his contract was gifted him? Again, loyalty. If he had an ounce of it he would have retired.

[purist]

Bruce coming back and Finley shipped out would indeed be loyalty.

For the legit posters (and also the trolls) who point out Finley was not yet on the roster when Bruce was sent, again, why was Finley even given this option back when his contract was gifted him? Again, loyalty. If he had an ounce of it he would have retired.

this is an irrational arguement, as many on this forum tend to be.

[FromWayDowntown]

Bruce coming back and Finley shipped out would indeed be loyalty.

For the legit posters (and also the trolls) who point out Finley was not yet on the roster when Bruce was sent, again, why was Finley even given this option back when his contract was gifted him? Again, loyalty. If he had an ounce of it he would have retired.

By that sort of logic, one wonders why Michael Finley was given that option when David Robinson and George Gervin didn't have such an option in the same year.

If you stop to think about it, though, the Spurs "loyalty" to Bruce Bowen for the 2009-10 season was manifested by the fact that they partially guaranteed his deal for the coming season when they worked out his current contract; Finley got no such assurances.

More than that, the whole "loyalty" nonsense manufactured to continue grinding this axe has yet to fully play itself out. Suppose that Bowen is bought out by the Bucks and returns to San Antonio while Finley's exercise of his option means that he's included in a deal that exiles him to Minnesota or some such. If that happens -- and it's not unrealistic -- Bowen will have gotten the portion of his contract that was guaranteed plus a salary for 2009-10 (more than he thought he would get) AND will be back with the Spurs, while Finley will be playing out the string with a team that has no chance.

Should something like that happen, this thread will look pretty silly.

[Fabbs]

this is an irrational arguement, as many on this forum tend to be.
Yeah, Finley comes over and gets the first title of his career. Showing some appreciation to the Spurs would be irrational. :rollin

Instead he has to stay on for two more (three?!) years and rob minutes while losing to Dallas again. And the idiotic Spurs FO and Poop had to offer him that. Get real.

I'm gonna put some air and Riverwalk water in a bottle and call it "Pops Magical Formula". "Drink some of this, and you'll be a Pops Popper for life." $19.95 a bottle. Hump Dumpers Austin address has already ordered a 100 cases.

[Fabbs]

More than that, the whole "loyalty" nonsense manufactured to continue grinding this axe has yet to fully play itself out. Suppose that Bowen is bought out by the Bucks and returns to San Antonio while Finley's exercise of his option means that he's included in a deal that exiles him to Minnesota or some such. If that happens -- and it's not unrealistic -- Bowen will have gotten the portion of his contract that was guaranteed plus a salary for 2009-10 (more than he thought he would get) AND will be back with the Spurs, while Finley will be playing out the string with a team that has no chance.

Should something like that happen, this thread will look pretty silly.
You'll still look silly.

op by Fabbs
So i know Milwaukee can buy out Bowen and we can get him back and I'd welcome Bruce back.
If we don't, and Finley stays,

[L.I.T]

Ah, I see now. You've glommed onto the Bruce Bowen situation to further your irrational hatred of Pop, Finley and the Spurs FO (in the midst of one of the Spurs best offseasons, which gives you little fodder on its own).

Bravo.

[tmtcsc]

I was like many of the people in here who were wondering why Bruce wasn't getting more minutes. I still maintain that they pulled the rug from underneath him a little too soon but hey, I'm not a coach.

The truth is, Bruce was an exceptional athlete who relied on his conditioning, technique and speed to play defense.

2 seasons ago, the Spurs began to notice that Bruce was reaching out and holding his opponents a lot more. That's the first sign that your losing the ability to stay in front of your opponent. That and watching people blow by you.

I guess they decided last year to move away from Bruce and try to win with a different philosophy. I would have liked to have seen Bruce be given more minutes but it wasn't meant to be.

I re-watched some old games and noticed that Bruce was being called for more fouls and that they were coming fast and in bunches. Maybe that's what the coaches saw too.

FWIW

[ChumpDumper]

Has he figured out why Bowen was traded yet?

[Fabbs]

I was like many of the people in here who were wondering why Bruce wasn't getting more minutes. I still maintain that they pulled the rug from underneath him a little too soon but hey, I'm not a coach.

The truth is, Bruce was an exceptional athlete who relied on his conditioning, technique and speed to play defense.

2 seasons ago, the Spurs began to notice that Bruce was reaching out and holding his opponents a lot more. That's the first sign that your losing the ability to stay in front of your opponent. That and watching people blow by you.

I guess they decided last year to move away from Bruce and try to win with a different philosophy. I would have liked to have seen Bruce be given more minutes but it wasn't meant to be.

I re-watched some old games and noticed that Bruce was being called for more fouls and that they were coming fast and in bunches. Maybe that's what the coaches saw too.

FWIW
and the leagues SFs have gotten more athletic and faster, which combined with your posts points could "make" Bruce look slower.

He still outplayed Finley in dimes in the 2009 playoffs.
We'll see if he comes back.

[tmtcsc]

and the leagues SFs have gotten more athletic and faster, which combined with your posts points could "make" Bruce look slower.

He still outplayed Finley in dimes in the 2009 playoffs.
We'll see if he comes back.

I agree, I thought he did outplay Finley. What's worse ? I'm not so sure Finley fouled very much. He wasn't even close enough to the guy he was guarding to do so. :lol

Like I mentioned, I wish Bruce would have gotten more minutes. Maybe he would have found a way to adjust his game. I think the Spurs have decided to move on. Besides, how many players do we have now ? 15 ?

1.Duncan
2.Parker
3.Ginobili
4.Jefferson
5.Dice
6.Hill
7.Finley
8.Mason
9.Mahinmi
10.Bonner
11.Blair
12.McClinton
13.Haislip
14.Hairston
15.Gist

Out:

Udoka
Vaughn
Bowen
Thomas
Williams
Gooden

How much can Gooden expect to make this year from an NBA team ? Is it feasible to bring him in for a vet min ?

Is Splitter going to miraculously be available somehow ?

I think this may be a make or break year for Ian.

[purist]

Yeah, Finley comes over and gets the first title of his career. Showing some appreciation to the Spurs would be irrational. :rollin

Instead he has to stay on for two more (three?!) years and rob minutes while losing to Dallas again. And the idiotic Spurs FO and Poop had to offer him that. Get real.

I'm gonna put some air and Riverwalk water in a bottle and call it "Pops Magical Formula". "Drink some of this, and you'll be a Pops Popper for life." $19.95 a bottle. Hump Dumpers Austin address has already ordered a 100 cases.

I presume then that you value "loyalty" enough to would walk away from your job if you were guaranteed $2.5 million.

[Fabbs]

I agree, I thought he did outplay Finley. What's worse ? I'm not so sure Finley fouled very much. He wasn't even close enough to the guy he was guarding to do so. :lol

Like I mentioned, I wish Bruce would have gotten more minutes. Maybe he would have found a way to adjust his game. I think the Spurs have decided to move on. Besides, how many players do we have now ? 15 ?

Is Splitter going to miraculously be available somehow ?

I took McDs' signing as no chance for Splitter this year.
I thought Bruce adjusted his O game as his kick ass fga% reflected. Didn't wipe out his D half step but certainly balanced it out. Better then Finleys not being close enough to foul. Good one. :lol

Another case of "Pops Popper" sent to Humpy in Austin.

[ChumpDumper]

So you still haven't figured out why Bowen was traded?

I guess lame puns and ignorance are all you have.

Cling to them.

[hater]

stop this melodrama.

It's time to nut up and go for another championship

[Trimble87]

Maybe it had to do with the fact the Bruce is going to be 39 years old at the start of next season.

+1

I dont understand this, for years the Spurs faithful have been saying we need to get younger. This offseason the Spurs trade 3 of our oldest players to get Jefferson and yet people still bitch about it.

I love Bruce and would love for him to fill out the roster, even in street clothes, just to have him with the team. But he is 39 years old people. he isnt the same Bruce that shut down Lebron in 07. Let it go.

As for Finley, he had a player option. The team did not choose to let him come back. So im not sure what the complaint is...

[Fabbs]

SA210 and all supporters of Bruce the Spur,

Not sure if the loyal Fin Sniffers/Humpers club has figured it out yet, but Bowen was released from the Bucks and thus is available for minimal. Meanwhile FinHawg is still occupying a roster spot.

We gonna see some loyalty?

[angelbelow]

Take some time to read through the thread, there are a FEW straight answers that are correct.

But pretty much Finley wasn't even under contract when we traded Bowen.

Bucks would save 2 million with Bowen, and 1.5 million with Finley even if they went that direction. Remember, the name of the game for the Bucks was to save money so half a million dollars will make a difference.

I don't see this as a question of loyalty, the FO is paid to make good business decisions and this was a no brainer.

[SonOfAGun]

Spurs being DEFENSE FIRST is modern day rah rah bullshit.

Maybe now that they have muscle they can get back to it.

[ChumpDumper]

SA210 and all supporters of Bruce the Spur,

Not sure if the loyal Fin Sniffers/Humpers club has figured it out yet, but Bowen was released from the Bucks and thus is available for minimal. Meanwhile FinHawg is still occupying a roster spot.

We gonna see some loyalty?Probably not.

Since you support the idea so strongly, I have to reconsider my earlier support for bringing Bruce back.

[Fabbs]

Take some time to read through the thread, there are a FEW straight answers that are correct.

But pretty much Finley wasn't even under contract when we traded Bowen.

Bucks would save 2 million with Bowen, and 1.5 million with Finley even if they went that direction. Remember, the name of the game for the Bucks was to save money so half a million dollars will make a difference.

I don't see this as a question of loyalty, the FO is paid to make good business decisions and this was a no brainer.
original post:

So i know Milwaukee can buy out Bowen and we can get him back and I'd welcome Bruce back.
If we don't, and Finley stays,

What loyalty?
It's happened. Now for the waiver process. No team claims him by next Friday and he's free to negotieate for vet mimimum i believe.
So Findawg traded, waived, whatever and Bruce signed?

[Fabbs]

Probably not.

Since you support the idea so strongly, I have to reconsider my earlier support for bringing Bruce back.
What a pathetic backpedal.
You're probably having bake sales to raise money for another team to claim Bowen off waivers.

[Mr Bones]

Dude, there should be a rule, yeah, a rule, that you need to have at least 100 posts before you're allowed to.... oh, shit. Nevermind.




:rollin

[ChumpDumper]

What a pathetic backpedal.What backpedal?

You're probably having bake sales to raise money for another team to claim Bowen off waivers.No team would ever take him of waivers. He's not worth doing that.

[wildbill2u]

I believe.

[Samr]

The same people whining that Bowen should not have been traded out of "loyalty" are probably the same people who never understood the disaster that was Malik Rose's final "loyalty" contract with the Spurs.

Fortunately, he got SO MUCH loyalty money that the Spurs were able to land Nazr in return. But man that dude sucked there at the end. See what happens when you over-reward loyalty? In this case, keeping Bowen, and thus losing out on the RJ trade, would have been similarly disastrous. Not because Bowen sucks, but because the team would have lost out on getting that much better.

[lotr1trekkie]

Finley or Bowen this season off the bench? I go with Bruce. He would be able to play the role of "fireman" for short stretches. He would be an asset to the younger wings on how to play perimeter D and blend into an offense dominated by other players. As for Finley, I don't see how he fits into the new Spurs rotation. Please Pop-- not as a starter at the #2! If not, his only role is a spot up shooter off the bench. This is a role he has not done well in previous years. If the Spurs really want to develop their younger players then Hill, Hairston and Williams need Finley's minutes. Honestly, I never think of Fin as a Spur. In my mine he will always be a part of that Mav's team with Dirk and Nash. Unload Fin in some way and bring Bowen back for one last title run.

[picnroll]

original post:

It's happened. Now for the waiver process. No team claims him by next Friday and he's free to negotieate for vet mimimum i believe.
So Findawg traded, waived, whatever and Bruce signed?
So Fabbs pony up the vet minimum, probably around $1.5 - 2 million x 2 for the luxury tax, put it into an envelope and mail it to Holt & Co., AT&T Center, San Antonio, TX. Get it done Fabbs and put your man back on the Spurs.

[SpurCharger]

Ok lets be Realistic here...... I love Bruce Bowen...... But He Is Gone, Every Spur Fan i know Was Complaining about Us being to Old, and We Need to get Younger. Now We Bring In A lil Youth Movement, and People are Complaining about the Old guys Being Let go...... I have always Questioned things Pop and RC have done, But they always end up working out in the End, and proving me Wrong..... The only Decision they made that I still Dont agree with, Was Not Resigning Stephen Jackson..... Other then That, Pop always Has A plan, and I support whatever his plan May be.

[Fabbs]

So Fabbs pony up the vet minimum, probably around $1.5 - 2 million x 2 for the luxury tax, put it into an envelope and mail it to Holt & Co., AT&T Center, San Antonio, TX. Get it done Fabbs and put your man back on the Spurs.
Keep baking cookies with Humpy to raise money for any would-be team that might claim Bruce off waivers. They would have to pay the remainder of his salary.

The Spurs payment of Bruce salary once he clears waivers is a matter of negotiation.

Work that Troll apron. What a fail. :rollin

[Fabbs]

Finley or Bowen this season off the bench? I go with Bruce. He would be able to play the role of "fireman" for short stretches. He would be an asset to the younger wings on how to play and blend into an offense dominated by other players. As for Finley, I don't see how he fits into the new Spurs rotation. Please Pop-- not as a starter at the #2! If not, his only role is a spot up shooter off the bench. This is a role he has not done well in previous years. If the Spurs really want to develop their younger players then Hill, Hairston and Williams need Finley's minutes. Honestly, I never think of Fin as a Spur. In my mine he will always be a part of that Mav's team with Dirk and Nash. Unload Fin in some way and bring Bowen back for one last title run.
All knowledgeable Spurs fans agree. Loyal ones. :toast

[FromWayDowntown]

Really, the Spurs should fire Pop and make Bruce Bowen the head coach immediately.

Loyalty, baby!

[jay014]

I'm all for loyalty as well but my loyalty is to the name on the front of the jersey not the back. Trading Bowen made this team better and that is most important.

Exactly:flag:

[ChumpDumper]

Keep baking cookies with Humpy to raise money for any would-be team that might claim Bruce off waivers. They would have to pay the remainder of his salary.Right, and Bruce isn't worth that these days.


The Spurs payment of Bruce salary once he clears waivers is a matter of negotiation.It's a matter of whether they actually want him. I'd be fine with it if they did -- Finley wouldn't even have to be moved; you are too blinded by hatred to realize that -- but I'm also fine with keeping trade chips until the deadline.


Work that Troll apron. What a fail. :rollinI agree your agenda is a failure.

[rayray2k8]

You should have waited till Bowen had found a team to be with. Then you have your argument.

[FromWayDowntown]

What if the Spurs hired (or convinced someone to hire) Bruce as a color commentator for local broadcasts, kept him around the team for the early portion of the season, assessed their team needs during that time, maintained the flexibility to make a trade with expiring deals like Finley's while making it possible for Bruce to rejoin the club (ala Sean Elliott in 2000) if prudent?

[lotr1trekkie]

McClinton and Gist will end up in Europe or Austin. Williams or Hairston---not both. The Spurs will still have room for Bruce. Mahimni also needs to prove he can contibute NOW or he's probably gone also. THE FUTURE IS NOW!

[FkLA]

People hate on Finley too much, seriously...he's been nothing but a professional since he arrived here. Always comes to play and never backs down from big shots, if Pop plays him too much like people claim than thats on Pop not on Fin. But I ask u this, who was a better option last yr than Fin? Who should Pop have given those minutes to? All you Bowen nuthuggers need to stfu about Bowen deserving the minutes, Pop didnt just magically say oh Im going to bench Bruce after 7 productive seasons. Bowen declined both offensively and defensively thats the reason he got benched....the man is damn near 40 yrs old. He isnt a machine and naturally slowed down.

As for the question, when the team's championship window is closing and u can get an athletic 20 point scorer without parting with either of the Big Three...u do it. Regardless of who is involved and how great that player has been to this organization, especially when he's nearly 40 yrs old.

[ffadicted]

All these people jerking off to Bruce Bowen and saying it was a mistake to "let him go" even though it got us jefferson clearly are either 12 or know nothing. Not to mention not realizing how different a player and team option are when making trades to save cap.

Go eat a cookie and spare us your idiocity.

[cleannfresh4life]

Deserves to end his carrer like a champion!

[spursfaninla]

Bowen is a champion, already multiple times.

Does he deserve to play based on past play, if he hurts the team's chances to win or get a championship?

I say no. sorry, I love bowen, but he aged past his usefulness and should gracefully leave the stage.

[WARRIOR86]

Really, the Spurs should fire Pop and make Bruce Bowen the head coach immediately.

Loyalty, baby!

Are you serious dude. Pop won us 4 titles. What does that tell you. He's a mastermind when it comes to BB. Come on now. If the Spurs didn't have Pop we would be back in the same boat like in the 90's when we had great teams but no great players to surround David Robinson who was awesome but with no supporting cast. Don't get me wrong though I really hope and wish that Bruce resigns with the Spurs.

[EricB]

The bitch ass cunt has showed up again I see.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Because Finley hadn't opted in for 2009-10, he couldn't have been traded on the date of the trade; had the Spurs waited, they might not have acquired Jefferson. And even if he had opted in, Bowen was a necessary piece for a trade that the Spurs HAD to make to have any chance to remain relevant.

This thread is pointless.

I love Bruce. I'd love it if there was a role for him on this team. There is not. Did those who ramble about loyalty not notice that he played only 18 minutes a game and started having DNP-CD's. At 38 years old his effectiveness as a perimeter defender is deteriorating. His strength in the past was that he would wear down a player so that by the end of the game he was either too tired to shoot or had given up trying to get his shot off. He just can't do that anymore. If you are going to defend for short stints great athleticism is more effective.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Wow, Fabbs...as i read through every thread on this post I have come to the conclusion that you are one of most clueless posters with over 2,500 posts that I have ever seen. For starters, it is not a Finley or Bowen deal. It is more likely a Hairston/Williams or Bowen decision. The only way Finley is not on this team is if their is a trade to bring in another wing that probably seals the fate of Bowen anyway. And the Spurs had loyalty to Bowen. They paid him more than he would have gotten with another team. This last contract extension shows that. How many teams do you see extending a guy through his 39th birthday? ONE...the SPURS!!!!! Get a grip dude. If you need a way to FEEL good about it, think of it like your children...just because they leave the house to set up their own doesn't mean they are not part of your family. Bruce will always be part of the Spurs family.

[anakha]

The anatomy of a typical Fabbs thread...

OP: <Pop-bashing>
Responses: <arguing against said Pop-bashing>
OP: You're all homers.

[Rogue]

Bowen was traded as part of a package in a deal, from which the Spurs got a big upgrade at the SF position. I think it's just like Bowen dedicated his sweet life in San Antonio for the improvement of his team, no other action can give a better description to loyalty.

[Fabbs]

Bowen was traded as part of a package in a deal, from which the Spurs got a big upgrade at the SF position. I think it's just like Bowen dedicated his sweet life in San Antonio for the improvement of his team, no other action can give a better description to loyalty.
Wow, that would be some serious unselfishness and loyalty by Bruce if that is indeed what he did. Correct you are Rogue, that would be the best def of loyalty. What a contrast to Finley-Pop and their Sniffers Club headed by Eric Park-Humpy. But maybe Popped and Finley are in on this prearranged, Finley willing to be moved and this is all according to plan. Would be a refreshing turnaround to the faux *CIA* Pooped moves of the past 4 years.

SA210, itzsoweezee, lotr1trekkie, Rogue, all other thread contributors, we'll get to find out shortly if as expected, Bruce clears waivers.

[SA210]

Bring Bruce back, period.

[Mister Sinister]

All knowledgeable Spurs fans are the ones that agree with me. Loyal ones. :toast

[Fabbs]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133385
Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili all were big players in the last three San Antonio championships (2003, 2005, 2007). Another was 38-year-old Bruce Bowen, who went to Milwaukee in the Jefferson trade. The Bucks waived him at the end of July and he is a free agent. Might he be part of another Spurs run, albeit in a subordinate role?

“I’ve given him no such indication,’’ Popovich said. “He might come back with the right team in the right situation, but it’s probably not going to be San Antonio.’’
So there you have it. Barring some huge surprise and this being a *CIA Poop* maneuver, Pops giving us Finley in favor of Bruce. Again.

Loyalty.

[ploto]

Bruce was essentially rescued from obscurity...

I would not call a second team all-NBA defender someone in obscurity. The team that "rescued" Bowen was Miami not SA.

[bishopospurs]

we will not regret getting rid of Bowen.

[bishopospurs]

I would not call a second team all-NBA defender someone in obscurity. The team that "rescued" Bowen was Miami not SA.

Then Boston gave him a lot of playing time as well.

[ploto]

Loyalty.

Spurs are no more (or less) loyal to the players than any other NBA team. I think some fans have put the Spurs on some sort of righteousness pedestal that is not realistic, and they are therefore disappointed when they realize they are like any other NBA team making personnel decisions based upon what they think is best for the organization.

[ploto]

Then Boston gave him a lot of playing time as well.

He had a good first year there, but not much of a second year. Miami is the team that played Bowen all 82 games and over 30 MPG, and Pat Riley was an important part of his development as a defensive player.

[Parker2112]

Shh, don't confuse him with the facts.

Your condescending attitude towards fellow Spurs fans (along with others on this board) is the biggest knock on the community.

[Mister Sinister]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133385
Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili all were big players in the last three San Antonio championships (2003, 2005, 2007). Another was 38-year-old Bruce Bowen, who went to Milwaukee in the Jefferson trade. The Bucks waived him at the end of July and he is a free agent. Might he be part of another Spurs run, albeit in a subordinate role?

“I’ve given him no such indication,’’ Popovich said. “He might come back with the right team in the right situation, but it’s probably not going to be San Antonio.’’
So there you have it. Barring some huge surprise and this being a *CIA Poop* maneuver, Pops giving us Finley in favor of Bruce. Again.

Loyalty.
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/2/21/Whambulance.gif

[Trainwreck2100]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133385
Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili all were big players in the last three San Antonio championships (2003, 2005, 2007). Another was 38-year-old Bruce Bowen, who went to Milwaukee in the Jefferson trade. The Bucks waived him at the end of July and he is a free agent. Might he be part of another Spurs run, albeit in a subordinate role?

“I’ve given him no such indication,’’ Popovich said. “He might come back with the right team in the right situation, but it’s probably not going to be San Antonio.’’
So there you have it. Barring some huge surprise and this being a *CIA Poop* maneuver, Pops giving us Finley in favor of Bruce. Again.

Loyalty.

what the fuck are you talking about Finley didn't even exercise his player option when the trade was made

[SA210]

“I’ve given him no such indication,’’ Popovich said. “He might come back with the right team in the right situation, but it’s probably not going to be San Antonio.’’
So there you have it. Barring some huge surprise and this being a *CIA Poop* maneuver, Pops giving us Finley in favor of Bruce. Again.

Loyalty.

:pop::pctoss:pop::pctoss:pop::pctoss:pop::pctoss:p op::pctoss:pop::pctoss:pop::pctoss

[spursfaninla]

There is a reason Bruce did not play last year, fellas...and it does not have to do with Finley love.

We needed more firepower.

With RJ, we have that at the 3. I doubt we see finley play more than spot backup minutes (finally).

Our starting rotation got much younger when both finley and bowen dropped out of it.

and, for the bowen homers....name 1 perimeter player that was even good at 37.

[ChumpDumper]

Your condescending attitude towards fellow Spurs fans (along with others on this board) is the biggest knock on the community.Condescension in the defense of realism is no vice.

[callo1]

Loyalty for the Spurs organization is a multi-pronged term. Loyalty to the players, the franchise, and the fans.

You can easily make the case that letting Bowen, Kurt, and Fabs go, the organization was being very loyal...maybe not to those guys, but to the core of TD, TP, and Manu. At the very least, they were trying to be loyal to the fans by doing what they thought was needed to bring another championship to the city.

Yeah, losing players like Bruce sucks, because he has been an instrumental part of three championships. Remember, it is a business, so the only thing to do is look forward.

I could never be a GM in the NBA due to my attachment to the person in which the player resides...I just couldn't do it.

At some point, if you don't try to upgrade the team around Timmy, then that is disloyal to Tim, Tony, and Manu.

Right or wrong (only time will tell if the plan works out), I am very happy that the ownership group put the money on the table to try and get another ring for San Antonio.

I remember the day that the ownership would simply put mediocre talent around Dave and not aspire for a ring, but simply to fill the stands and make a buck...the same way the Detroit Lions did with Barry Sanders.

* I would say that the Spurs organization has been very loyal in the past. Remember the money Avery got in his last year as a Spur? Nice parting gift there...way more than Avery's talents deserved.

[SA210]

^^^ But if we end up losing to the Lakers or another team because we had noone that could gaurd Kobe or another scorer, did we make the right move afterall?

[FromWayDowntown]

^^^ But if we end up losing to the Lakers or another team because we had noone that could gaurd Kobe or another scorer, did we make the right move afterall?

So do you want the Spurs to go small late in games against LA and get raped on the boards or do you think the Spurs should sit Jefferson in those portions of games and just try to survive their notorious scoring droughts?

[CubanMustGo]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133385
Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili all were big players in the last three San Antonio championships (2003, 2005, 2007). Another was 38-year-old Bruce Bowen, who went to Milwaukee in the Jefferson trade. The Bucks waived him at the end of July and he is a free agent. Might he be part of another Spurs run, albeit in a subordinate role?

“I’ve given him no such indication,’’ Popovich said. “He might come back with the right team in the right situation, but it’s probably not going to be San Antonio.’’
So there you have it. Barring some huge surprise and this being a *CIA Poop* maneuver, Pops giving us Finley in favor of Bruce. Again.

Loyalty.

http://3alleypub.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg

http://www.spooncraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/beat_dead_horse2.jpg

http://frederatorblogs.com/channel_frederator/files/2009/06/beating_a_dead_horse1.gif

http://www.bjacked.net/LuvToHunt/forums/phpBB2/modules/gallery/albums/album01/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg

[exstatic]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133385
Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili all were big players in the last three San Antonio championships (2003, 2005, 2007). Another was 38-year-old Bruce Bowen, who went to Milwaukee in the Jefferson trade. The Bucks waived him at the end of July and he is a free agent. Might he be part of another Spurs run, albeit in a subordinate role?

“I’ve given him no such indication,’’ Popovich said. “He might come back with the right team in the right situation, but it’s probably not going to be San Antonio.’’
So there you have it. Barring some huge surprise and this being a *CIA Poop* maneuver, Pops giving us Finley in favor of Bruce. Again.

Loyalty.

Given the choice, the Spurs would have jettisoned BOTH of them. They didn't have that choice. Finley did. He opted in. I wouldn't get terribly comfortable if I were Fin. My thought is that sometime between this second and the February trade deadline, he's gonzo.

[bigzak25]

hopefully he'll sign on with a contender and have a solid shot at another ring...

if Pop wasn't going to play him anyway, there was no point in keeping him around.

Godbless you Bruuuuuce!


but don't you go kicking manu in the face or anything...:flag:

[spursfaninla]

Given the choice, the Spurs would have jettisoned BOTH of them. They didn't have that choice. Finley did. He opted in. I wouldn't get terribly comfortable if I were Fin. My thought is that sometime between this second and the February trade deadline, he's gonzo.

this.

[exstatic]

I would not call a second team all-NBA defender someone in obscurity. The team that "rescued" Bowen was Miami not SA.

It is if you're 30, bounced all over Europe, with a few NBA stops, and that one honor is your sole claim of fame.

Bruce Bowen was unknown by 95% of NBA fans in the summer of 2001. That's obscurity.

[Fabbs]

Spurs are no more (or less) loyal to the players than any other NBA team. I think some fans have put the Spurs on some sort of righteousness pedestal that is not realistic, and they are therefore disappointed when they realize they are like any other NBA team making personnel decisions based upon what they think is best for the organization.
You mean they weren't. And that is a lot of what drew myself (2001-2 altho i always liked Dunkar) and a lot of others to the Spurs. The no superstar attitude, Timmy Dunks especially, Pop being a seeming non ego tripper.

But ploto you are oh so wrong about the PoppySpurs and loyalty. His and their overblown loyalty to Finley has been and is gagging and has brought down the Spurs we came to know and love. It can't be spun any other way.

Bruce is not the key to this season. Pops marriage to Finley was a key to the 2006, and certainly 2008 and 09 downfall tho.

[DaBears]

Loyalty has to sides to it; Spurs from thier stand point is to show the city Of San Antonio that they will conitue to put a championship contending team every yr on the court to compete.
San Antonio Fans loyalty is to support and show up when called on. back your team up....... So far i would say both sides are doing what needs to be done.

Bowen while his stay here in SA was quiet pleasant its a business and SPURS FO did what needed to be done to help us Win.

[spursfaninla]

Pop went with Fin because we needed firepower. Plain and simple.

Sure, you could say his "loyalty" to fin was the issue, but that makes no sense; his loyalty to the big 3, and to bruce, would make sense, since he has been with them longer.

Pop made a judgment call, and thought firepower (fin, relative to bruce) was more important than trying to stop one player on the other team (bruce).

Dang, this is SO ancient history now. You really need to move on. This team is going to be great, but you are f-ing up my grove.

[DaBears]

Pop went with Fin because we needed firepower. Plain and simple.

Sure, you could say his "loyalty" to fin was the issue, but that makes no sense; his loyalty to the big 3, and to bruce, would make sense, since he has been with them longer.

Pop made a judgment call, and thought firepower (fin, relative to bruce) was more important than trying to stop one player on the other team (bruce).

Dang, this is SO ancient history now. You really need to move on. This team is going to be great, but you are f-ing up my grove.

Agreed:lobt2:

[coyotes_geek]

But ploto you are oh so wrong about the PoppySpurs and loyalty. His and their overblown loyalty to Finley has been and is gagging and has brought down the Spurs we came to know and love. It can't be spun any other way.

The only "loyalty" to Fin was that he had a contract situation that prevented him from being traded and Bruce didn't. Reverse their contracts and it's Finley who gets shipped out instead of Bowen. Quit trying to make this more complicated than it is.

[jb4g]

fin has got deadline trade bait written all over him, hes never done well off the bench and we shouldnt expect this year to be any different. I dont recall the Spurs making any public statements wanting him to pick up his option, and if they had their way he probably wouldnt have. But noone is going to walk away from 2.5 million. He knew when he took it he was essentially buying himself a one way ticket out of town. This team still has one move left, and its gonna be near the deadline once they see how things come together over the first half of the season. Fin, Bonner, Ian, or some combination of the 3 is probably gone by Feb.

As for Bruce, he was done. If Pop chose to DNP him, thats all I need to know about Bruce's abilities at 39. Thanks for the memories, come back and do play by play with Sean, but thats it.

[SA210]

So do you want the Spurs to go small late in games against LA and get raped on the boards or do you think the Spurs should sit Jefferson in those portions of games and just try to survive their notorious scoring droughts?

Who would you say is better, Finley? :lol

[FromWayDowntown]

Who would you say is better, Finley? :lol

No. I'm saying that the discussion is largely academic because Pop's most likely going to play Parker, Ginobili, Jefferson, Duncan and another big in crunch time and the hope of having a "defensive stopper" who can shut down a scorer like Kobe during those times ignores that basic fact. Basically, you're dickering over players who are most likely going to get 10-12 minutes a night off the bench, dealing with players other than the great scorers. Do you really think the Spurs' title chances turn on the identity of that player?

The Finley/Bowen canard is silly, too. The Spurs wanted to deal for Jefferson. They couldn't, at the time, use Finley as a chip to get him. So, fundamentally, in using what assets they did have, it's not as if they made a choice between Bowen and Finley. They dealt what they had to get what they wanted (and needed).

And the notion that the Spurs could just jettison Finley right now and bring back Bowen is fanciful, given how far the Spurs are already extended financially.

[SA210]

No. I'm saying that the discussion is largely academic because Pop's most likely going to play Parker, Ginobili, Jefferson, Duncan and another big in crunch time and the hope of having a "defensive stopper" who can shut down a scorer like Kobe during those times ignores that basic fact. Basically, you're dickering over players who are most likely going to get 10-12 minutes a night off the bench, dealing with players other than the great scorers. Do you really think the Spurs' title chances turn on the identity of that player?

The Finley/Bowen canard is silly, too. The Spurs wanted to deal for Jefferson. They couldn't, at the time, use Finley as a chip to get him. So, fundamentally, in using what assets they did have, it's not as if they made a choice between Bowen and Finley. They dealt what they had to get what they wanted (and needed).

And the notion that the Spurs could just jettison Finley right now and bring back Bowen is fanciful, given how far the Spurs are already extended financially.

Imagine we have a great season, we run teams out of the arena all year long like the Mavs and Suns from a few years ago, a fantastic season and the RJ signing looks great, which btw, I love RJ.

Then the playoffs come around and things are a bit different. Imagine we play the Lakers or another team where we get torched by a guy like Kobe and noone on our team can stop him, and we don't have Bruce to call on even for just 10 minutes to stop him (which I know he can still do better than ANYONE).

Then we get booted from the playoffs because of this, was the RJ trade worth it? If we lose because of that reason, what did the trade matter?

[Muser]

Imagine we have a great season, we run teams out of the arena all year long like the Mavs and Suns from a few years ago, a fantastic season and the RJ signing looks great, which btw, I love RJ.

Then the playoffs come around and things are a bit different. Imagine we play the Lakers or another team where we get torched by a guy like Kobe and noone on our team can stop him, and we don't have Bruce to call on even for just 10 minutes to stop him (which I know he can still do better than ANYONE).

Then we get booted from the playoffs because of this, was the RJ trade worth it? If we lose because of that reason, what did the trade matter?

I've already told you this, we lost WITH bruce the last two years.

[SA210]

I've already told you this, we lost WITH bruce the last two years.

Yea, I don't think Pop was at his best coaching-wise either, and hasn't been recently. Bruce is the best guy to defend anyone on the perimiter, still.

[Extra Stout]

Kobe Bryant's Field Goal Percentage Against the Spurs in the Playoffs 2001-08

Year.......Bowen on team?.....Bryant FG%
2001.......No.......................51.4
2002.......Yes......................45.4
2003.......Yes......................43.4
2004.......Yes......................46.1
2008.......Yes......................53.3

[Extra Stout]

Differential Between Kobe Bryant's FG% Against the Spurs in the Playoffs, and His Regular Season FG%

Year.......Reg Season.......Spurs Playoff Series.....Differential
2001.......46.4................51.4............... ...........+5.0
2002.......46.9................45.4............... ...........-1.5
2003.......45.1................43.4............... ...........-1.7
2004.......43.8................46.1............... ...........+2.3
2008.......45.9................53.3............... ...........+7.4

[DesignatedT]

We hear a lot about how the Spurs FO and Coaching dictator -i mean coach and staff are loyal.

Q. Why was Bowen let go and Finley retained?

I know Bowens 4 mill might be considered too much, but matador D Finley will be getting 2.5 so its only a 1.5 difference.

Bowen:
With the team for all 3 2000+ decade championships.
Does whatever the team asked of him. Played almost every game for every year he was here.

Coatails Fin was superb in 2007, otherwise all he has done is stole minutes, gone 1-4 including two lost playoff series to the team that paid him $20 million a year to go away. All the blather about Fins shooting, Bowen matched him in the reg season and outshot him in last years playoffs. Now lets talk defense. No lets not.
"Spurs are a defense first team and military Pop demands defense." Save that b.s. Was true 2005 and back. Since then its a joke.

So i know Milwaukee can buy out Bowen and we can get him back and I'd welcome Bruce back.
If we don't, and Finley stays,

What loyalty?


fuck loyalty. this shits about winning

[DesignatedT]

You mean they weren't. And that is a lot of what drew myself (2001-2 altho i always liked Dunkar) and a lot of others to the Spurs. The no superstar attitude, Timmy Dunks especially, Pop being a seeming non ego tripper.

But ploto you are oh so wrong about the PoppySpurs and loyalty. His and their overblown loyalty to Finley has been and is gagging and has brought down the Spurs we came to know and love. It can't be spun any other way.

Bruce is not the key to this season. Pops marriage to Finley was a key to the 2006, and certainly 2008 and 09 downfall tho.



finley played absolutely awesome in 06 against dallas. by no means was that the reason we lost that series to dallas..... finley also played great in 07.. particularly in the playoffs. and no finley bashers were anywhere to be found.

[SA210]

fuck loyalty. this shits about winning

If that's the case, we should bring Bruce back then.

[CubanMustGo]

If that's the case, we should bring Bruce back then.

38 reasons not.

[lefty]

38 reasons not.

We can afford to rest him a lot during the regular season

Just put him on the court for the last seconds of a game on Kobe and Lebron

[loveforthegame]

No. I'm saying that the discussion is largely academic because Pop's most likely going to play Parker, Ginobili, Jefferson, Duncan and another big in crunch time and the hope of having a "defensive stopper" who can shut down a scorer like Kobe during those times ignores that basic fact. Basically, you're dickering over players who are most likely going to get 10-12 minutes a night off the bench, dealing with players other than the great scorers. Do you really think the Spurs' title chances turn on the identity of that player?

The Finley/Bowen canard is silly, too. The Spurs wanted to deal for Jefferson. They couldn't, at the time, use Finley as a chip to get him. So, fundamentally, in using what assets they did have, it's not as if they made a choice between Bowen and Finley. They dealt what they had to get what they wanted (and needed).

And the notion that the Spurs could just jettison Finley right now and bring back Bowen is fanciful, given how far the Spurs are already extended financially.

Nice post. :tu

Not sure how much more it can be spelled out for people that it wasn't a case of choosing Finley over Bowen.

Not only was Finley not available to trade but the Bucks most likely wouldn't have wanted him. They wanted Bowen's partially guaranteed contract. Not to mention Oberto's as well.

[SA210]

We can afford to rest him a lot during the regular season

Just put him on the court for the last seconds of a game on Kobe and Lebron

:tu

Yea basically when our other guys are getting torched.

[spursfaninla]

Obviously, the rest of the league agrees with SA210 and Fabbs, and that explains why so many teams are lining up to offer Bowen MLE money....

Damn, these fools ironically would make the same mistake with Bowen, great as he WAS, that was done with Horry and Finley...riding a championship horse one race too many.

[CubanMustGo]

Obviously, the rest of the league agrees with SA210 and Fabbs, and that explains why so many teams are lining up to offer Bowen MLE money....

Damn, these fools ironically would make the same mistake with Bowen, great as he WAS, that was done with Horry and Finley...riding a championship horse one race too many.

this.

[Fabbs]

No. I'm saying that the discussion is largely academic because Pop's most likely going to play Parker, Ginobili, Jefferson, Duncan and another big in crunch time and the hope of having a "defensive stopper" who can shut down a scorer like Kobe during those times ignores that basic fact. Basically, you're dickering over players who are most likely going to get 10-12 minutes a night off the bench, dealing with players other than the great scorers. Do you really think the Spurs' title chances turn on the identity of that player?

The Finley/Bowen canard is silly, too. The Spurs wanted to deal for Jefferson. They couldn't, at the time, use Finley as a chip to get him. So, fundamentally, in using what assets they did have, it's not as if they made a choice between Bowen and Finley. They dealt what they had to get what they wanted (and needed).

And the notion that the Spurs could just jettison Finley right now and bring back Bowen is fanciful, given how far the Spurs are already extended financially.
13 minutes off the bench from SuperStevie Kerr in the 2003 Championship run in Gm 6 vs the Mavs.
Late 3rd qtr, Spurs down 13, Parker sick, Speedy sucking bad, unable to even get an entry pass into Timmy Dunks. Enter Stevie Kerr.

To be sure, it's entirely possible the Mavs win not only this Game 6 but even Gm 7. Dumbassovich had NO intention to play Kerr, had not Parker gotten sick and Speedy sucked badly.
Oh by the way, Kerr was 37. And Michael Finley was on the Mavs. :rollin
You need to learn your Spurs history and the value of a 10 minute a game role player.

Bowen was bought out by the Bucks. Move forward. The lame excuse that the Spurs had to trade Bowen therefore Finley now has to stay on the roster is lame. Old. True they had to include Bruce to get Jefferson. That is done. Bruce is now a free agent, Finley is on the roster as well as Pops organ.

Financially extended Spurs cannot sign Bruce. Please.

spursfaninla
Obviously, the rest of the league agrees with SA210 and Fabbs, and that explains why so many teams are lining up to offer Bowen MLE money....

I think it was Pete Burns who reported Bowen has received offers.

[Fabbs]

Kobe Bryant's Field Goal Percentage Against the Spurs in the Playoffs 2001-08

Year.......Bowen on team?.....Bryant FG%
2001.......No.......................51.4
2002.......Yes......................45.4
2003.......Yes......................43.4
2004.......Yes......................46.1
2008.......Yes......................53.3
Thanks for supporting SA210, my and other knowledgeable Spurs point.
The years Bruce got big minutes on Kobme, Kobmes percentages were held in check.
Specifically game 1 of 2008. Bruce on Kobme, Spurs up freakin 20 mid 3rd qtr.
DumbassOvich takes Bowen out, Lakers and Kobme go on immediate run and win! :lol :depressed

[SA210]

Thanks for supporting SA210, my and other knowledgeable Spurs point.
The years Bruce got big minutes on Kobme, Kobmes percentages were held in check.
Specifically game 1 of 2008. Bruce on Kobme, Spurs up freakin 20 mid 3rd qtr.
DumbassOvich takes Bowen out, Lakers and Kobme go on immediate run and win! :lol :depressed

This :lol

People will have to learn the hard way Fabbs.

[spursfaninla]

well, the power of your argument is that you can't be disproven: bowen will not be on the Spurs, and if the Spurs lose to the Lakers (which the odds say should happen), you can say is was because we didn't have a 38 year old "defensive stopper" to prevent a near-prime Kobe from being, well, kobe. This is a very safe argument to make.

I did not see any refutation to the observations made about last year, though: that Bruce was getting called for lots of fouls because he needed to grab in order to keep up with players; that the staff thought he was no longer effective (which seems to confirm the stats provided just above); and that, contrary to the two posters in question here, he is human, ages, slows down, and eventually went the way of Horry (and hopefully Finley...) great, loved, but done.

You guys need to step off of the funeral pyre; the spurs improved, and you guys are ready to burn the team and yourselves, because we are burying a loved but ineffective player.

If the Spurs win the championship, this thread will be long buried.

[Fabbs]

well, the power of your argument is that you can't be disproven: bowen will not be on the Spurs, and if the Spurs lose to the Lakers (which the odds say should happen), you can say is was because we didn't have a 38 year old "defensive stopper" to prevent a near-prime Kobe from being, well, kobe. This is a very safe argument to make.
Nor did we ever claim if the Spurs lose to the Lakers this upcoming 2010 playoffs that the sole reason will be because we are Bruceless. That notion originates with you, even if you do not agree with it.


I did not see any refutation to the observations made about last year, though: that Bruce was getting called for lots of fouls because he needed to grab in order to keep up with players; that the staff thought he was no longer effective (which seems to confirm the stats provided just above); and that, contrary to the two posters in question here, he is human, ages, slows down, and eventually went the way of Horry (and hopefully Finley...) great, loved, but done.
I agree Bruce looked a half step slower last year. Which is 5 steps faster then Finley. On O, Bruce matched or exceeded Finley. Thus our points.


You guys need to step off of the funeral pyre; the spurs improved, and you guys are ready to burn the team and yourselves, because we are burying a loved but ineffective player.

If the Spurs win the championship, this thread will be long buried.
If the Spurs win a championship, it will be because DumbassOvich does not play Bonner and Finley 30 minutes a game in most games and certainly not in critical series changing games.

I will gladly take a championship this year with or without Bruce. If its without Bruce and with Finley, that is disloyalty to the max.

[Extra Stout]

Thanks for supporting SA210, my and other knowledgeable Spurs point.
The years Bruce got big minutes on Kobme, Kobmes percentages were held in check.
Specifically game 1 of 2008. Bruce on Kobme, Spurs up freakin 20 mid 3rd qtr.
DumbassOvich takes Bowen out, Lakers and Kobme go on immediate run and win! :lol :depressed
Bruce Bowen Minutes Per Game in Spurs-Lakers Playoff Series
2002: 37
2003: 36
2004: 28
2008: 34

[CubanMustGo]

13 minutes off the bench from SuperStevie Kerr in the 2003 Championship run in Gm 6 vs the Mavs.




Move forward.

[Agloco]

Because Finley hadn't opted in for 2009-10, he couldn't have been traded on the date of the trade; had the Spurs waited, they might not have acquired Jefferson. And even if he had opted in, Bowen was a necessary piece for a trade that the Spurs HAD to make to have any chance to remain relevant.

This thread is pointless.

:toast

[Extra Stout]

Commentary:

Following Kobe Bryant's (and Shaquille O'Neal's) dominance against the Spurs in the 2001 Western Conference Finals, the Spurs added Bruce Bowen to shore up their perimeter defense. The improvement was immediately apparent in the 2002 and 2003 series, where Bryant was held below his season shooting percentages. In 2004, Bowen's minutes were cut because of the presence of Hedo Turkoglu, and the Spurs' defense against Bryant suffered accordingly.

By 2008, it was clear Bowen had lost a step in guarding Bryant. The Spurs were no longer able to contain the Lakers' superstar as they once had, though the aging Bowen was still a better defensive option than the hapless Ime Udoka or anybody else on the Spurs roster. Bowen therefore played comparable minutes to what he had in the past. (Bowen's decline had become apparent in the previous series when he was completely unable to contain Chris Paul, though he was able to shut down Peja Stojakovic when switched over to guard him.)

There is no reason to expect that Bruce Bowen would be able to perform at his 2002-07 level were he to be re-acquired by the Spurs for spot duty in 2009-10. The scenario presented wherein the Spurs lose to the Lakers because Bowen is not available to provide 10 minutes of spot duty on Bryant is specious. He is not the defender he was in 2008, much less 2003.

Bruce Bowen had tremendous value to the Spurs in his prime because despite his offensive limitations, he was the best perimeter defender in the world. Now that at the age of 38 he is just an above-average perimeter defender, he is no different from a multitude of players on the fringe of the league who struggle to stick with teams.

SA210 has a well-documented affinity for Bowen. That said affinity is impervious to reason has much to do with SA210's just being a passionate person who believes in people. Fabbs' agenda is a longstanding antipathy for Gregg Popovich. That said hatred is impervious to reason has much to do with Fabbs' just being an asshole.

[spursfaninla]

Nor did we ever claim if the Spurs lose to the Lakers this upcoming 2010 playoffs that the sole reason will be because we are Bruceless. That notion originates with you, even if you do not agree with it.
I agree Bruce looked a half step slower last year. Which is 5 steps faster then Finley. On O, Bruce matched or exceeded Finley. Thus our points.
If the Spurs win a championship, it will be because DumbassOvich does not play Bonner and Finley 30 minutes a game in most games and certainly not in critical series changing games.
I will gladly take a championship this year with or without Bruce. If its without Bruce and with Finley, that is disloyalty to the max.

This loyalty theme still makes no sense, as has been expounded alrady, but thanks for trying to revive it without actual substance. Your real argument, which I think has been pretty badly shredded by all accounts already, is that Bowen would greatly contribute on D, and finley sucks, so we should dump fin and bring back bowen, not for loyalty, but for pragmatics.

Unbelievable that you claim Bowen is better on O!? I don't think rational spurs fans will even contemplate that before agreeing your credibility is SHOT like a corner 3...which was bowens only (but excellent) offensive contribution...compared to finely, who could shoot from...well, all over. And shoot jumpers...and dribble.

Of course Bowen is much better than Finley on D. Finley is hopefully not even playing this year either. Finely played OVER bowen during the regular season as well, if you noticed. Why was that? Either because finely's advantage in OFFENSE was greater than the need for a DEFENSIVE stopper in bowen, because Bowen had SLOWED DOWN; or, Pop is senile and should be taken out back and shot.

RJ will be given a chance to be a defensive stopper...as will Hill. Also have Hariston, who has shown flashes of being a very good defender. Our team D should be very good next year...dont' send up the white flag on our team needing the pentultimate on-on-one defender in order to win.

I hope we trade Fin and Bonner for something at the trade deadline, so then half of your bitch about this topic will disappear.

[Fabbs]

Commentary: Fabbs' agenda is a longstanding..
..love of winning NBA Championships, esp when Lakers are one of the victories along the way.

fify

[SA210]

:lol Thanks ES I think. I do believe in Bruce. It really pains me that he's gone. I just think he was used wrongly recently. I really do believe we have a better chance with him for situational purposes. I feel without him for those little moments could make the difference on whether we advance or not.

[Fabbs]

Unbelievable that you claim Bowen is better on O!? I don't think rational spurs fans will even contemplate that before agreeing your credibility is SHOT like a corner 3...which was bowens only (but excellent) offensive contribution...compared to finely, who could shoot from...well, all over. And shoot jumpers...and dribble.

Of course Bowen is much better than Finley on D. Finley is hopefully not even playing this year either. Finely played OVER bowen during the regular season as well, if you noticed. Why was that? Either because finely's advantage in OFFENSE was greater than the need for a DEFENSIVE stopper in bowen, because Bowen had SLOWED DOWN; or, Pop is senile and should be taken out back and shot.

Bruces 2009 playoff fga like .727
Real credibility.
In fact feel free to compare last reg season also.

Finley can shoot all over? :rollin He's driven the ball to the rack like once in his entire Spurs tenure. He's a catch and shoot per Pops Stand n Veg offense has ordered.

[spursfaninla]

um, I didnt' say fin was a slasher (anymore), I said a shooter.

SHOOTER not equal SLASHER.

Bruce shot like 3 fg the whole playoffs, not impressed with that.

similarly with the reg season; fin actually contributed offensively in comparison, i would think his percentages would go down.

[spursfaninla]

Bruces 2009 playoff fga like .727
Real credibility.
In fact feel free to compare last reg season also.

Finley can shoot all over? :rollin He's driven the ball to the rack like once in his entire Spurs tenure. He's a catch and shoot per Pops Stand n Veg offense has ordered.

I think the stats mean you are self owned; bruce had .53% shooting in the playoffs, but almost all his shots were 3pt from, you guessed it, the corner, and 42% during the regular season, with a 41% average lifetime. So, 70% is obviously not accurate.

Points: 4ppg, efficiency 6.60

Finley: 41% 2pt, 46% 3pt in playoffs, 8 ppg in the playoffs, 43%fg and 41% fg reg season, 9.7ppg reg. season... efficiency 7.6

Fin. was just more productive than bowen on offense, despite some hot shooting during one round of the playoffs for Bowen. Even given that, Bowen was 1-3 in 2pt shots his last 3 games of the playoffs.

[Fabbs]

I think the stats mean you are self owned; bruce had .53% shooting in the playoffs, but almost all his shots were 3pt from, you guessed it, the corner, and 42% during the regular season, with a 41% average lifetime. So, 70% is obviously not accurate.
A 2 pter is worth 2 pts.
A 3 pter is worth 3 pts.

Bruces' field goal adjusted was 72%

Player A takes 10 shots, all two pointers. He makes 6. That's 12 points.
Player B takes 10 shots, all three pointers. He makes 6. That's 18 points.

[spursfaninla]

wow, that was very instructive.

So what if his effective fg% was what you claim? He scored 4 pts a game. He can't create, so he can't get those corner 3's every play...

next.

[SA210]

Great work Fabbs! :lol

[Agloco]

Commentary:

Following Kobe Bryant's (and Shaquille O'Neal's) dominance against the Spurs in the 2001 Western Conference Finals, the Spurs added Bruce Bowen to shore up their perimeter defense. The improvement was immediately apparent in the 2002 and 2003 series, where Bryant was held below his season shooting percentages. In 2004, Bowen's minutes were cut because of the presence of Hedo Turkoglu, and the Spurs' defense against Bryant suffered accordingly.

By 2008, it was clear Bowen had lost a step in guarding Bryant. The Spurs were no longer able to contain the Lakers' superstar as they once had, though the aging Bowen was still a better defensive option than the hapless Ime Udoka or anybody else on the Spurs roster. Bowen therefore played comparable minutes to what he had in the past. (Bowen's decline had become apparent in the previous series when he was completely unable to contain Chris Paul, though he was able to shut down Peja Stojakovic when switched over to guard him.)

There is no reason to expect that Bruce Bowen would be able to perform at his 2002-07 level were he to be re-acquired by the Spurs for spot duty in 2009-10. The scenario presented wherein the Spurs lose to the Lakers because Bowen is not available to provide 10 minutes of spot duty on Bryant is specious. He is not the defender he was in 2008, much less 2003.

Bruce Bowen had tremendous value to the Spurs in his prime because despite his offensive limitations, he was the best perimeter defender in the world. Now that at the age of 38 he is just an above-average perimeter defender, he is no different from a multitude of players on the fringe of the league who struggle to stick with teams.

SA210 has a well-documented affinity for Bowen. That said affinity is impervious to reason has much to do with SA210's just being a passionate person who believes in people. Fabbs' agenda is a longstanding antipathy for Gregg Popovich. That said hatred is impervious to reason has much to do with Fabbs' just being an asshole.

This sums things up nicely.

/thread

[lennyalderette]

if u watch nba tv right now the lakers and spurs are next im sure you will be seeing some moments we are going to miss from bruce, i have been watching the top spurs games on nba tv and he makes some crucial plays that turn the game around, and i kinda forgot how awesome he is since pop didnt play him. i would second him being a back up at least. the guy annoys the shit outta people he takes them out of their game even at 38

[SA210]

if u watch nba tv right now the lakers and spurs are next im sure you will be seeing some moments we are going to miss from bruce, i have been watching the top spurs games on nba tv and he makes some crucial plays that turn the game around, and i kinda forgot how awesome he is since pop didnt play him. i would second him being a back up at least. the guy annoys the shit outta people he takes them out of their game even at 38

:tu

[FromWayDowntown]

if u watch nba tv right now the lakers and spurs are next im sure you will be seeing some moments we are going to miss from bruce, i have been watching the top spurs games on nba tv and he makes some crucial plays that turn the game around, and i kinda forgot how awesome he is since pop didnt play him. i would second him being a back up at least. the guy annoys the shit outta people he takes them out of their game even at 38

If I watch the Lakers/Spurs from 2003, there are sure to be some moments the Spurs have missed from David Robinson, too. And if I watch Lakers/Spurs from 1983, there are sure to be some moments the Spurs have missed George Gervin, Johnny Moore, Mike Mitchell, and Artis Gilmore.


Bowen was bought out by the Bucks. Move forward. The lame excuse that the Spurs had to trade Bowen therefore Finley now has to stay on the roster is lame. Old. True they had to include Bruce to get Jefferson. That is done. Bruce is now a free agent, Finley is on the roster as well as Pops organ.

Financially extended Spurs cannot sign Bruce. Please.

Well, the fact that Michael Finley has a deal that guarantees him $2.5 million for the 2009-10 season and the fact that the Spurs are over the tax threshold already is certainly true. That means that a team that already is going to owe $11 million or so in tax payments would make itself obligated for another several million on that bill. If you think that's not an impediment to the transaction you're carping for, you should gather up all of that money you have to waste and buy the Spurs.

[sabar]

1. If you are arguing against FWD, you are probably on the wrong side.
2. Bruce is ancient
3. No near-40 player is going to come off the bench and lock someone down half their age in 8-10 minutes of playtime.
4. Fabbs is just pushing his very well-known agenda, he doesn't care about Bruce

[MajorMike]

You know, this is a big ole long thread about whining and contracts and Finley and all that crap. Probably the same people who were lighting themselves on fire when Malik was traded.

One fact remains, however; if Bruce would have been good enough to play, he would have. He wasn't. No conspiracy theory can change that. If Bruce was such a defensive stopper still every team and their dog would be lining up to get him. They aren't. If basketball was about loyalty then Elliott would have never been a Piston; he was (but came back, but you get the point).

Waah; Bruce got traded. We all love him and he did great things for us. I loved the first Huffy dirt bike I got when I was a kid and defied death on that thing on a daily basis. However one day it got tired of all the abuse and it was time to trade up and get a new one because the old one, no matter how much I loved it, just didn't perform the way it used to, it squeaked, had rust and the frame was even bent. Doesn't mean I didn't pull it out of the garage now and then before I decided it was really time to get over it, but it was a good ride and I had to learn to move on.

It was a good ride; learn to move on.

[Fabbs]

You know, this is a big ole long thread about whining and contracts and Finley and all that crap. Probably the same people who were lighting themselves on fire when Malik was traded.

One fact remains, however; if Bruce would have been good enough to play, he would have. He wasn't. No conspiracy theory can change that. If Bruce was such a defensive stopper still every team and their dog would be lining up to get him. They aren't. If basketball was about loyalty then Elliott would have never been a Piston; he was (but came back, but you get the point).

Waah; Bruce got traded. We all love him and he did great things for us. I loved the first Huffy dirt bike I got when I was a kid and defied death on that thing on a daily basis. However one day it got tired of all the abuse and it was time to trade up and get a new one because the old one, no matter how much I loved it, just didn't perform the way it used to, it squeaked, had rust and the frame was even bent. Doesn't mean I didn't pull it out of the garage now and then before I decided it was really time to get over it, but it was a good ride and I had to learn to move on.

It was a good ride; learn to move on.
But do you (and others) still have your Finley bike? And do you ride it to the at&t center to watch Phil and Kome work over Poop and Finley. Again. And again. And again?
http://toy-stores.info/girls_bikes.jpg

[Fabbs]

Well, the fact that Michael Finley has a deal that guarantees him $2.5 million for the 2009-10 season and the fact that the Spurs are over the tax threshold already is certainly true. That means that a team that already is going to owe $11 million or so in tax payments would make itself obligated for another several million on that bill. If you think that's not an impediment to the transaction you're carping for, you should gather up all of that money you have to waste and buy the Spurs.
What did Holt pay to buy the team?
NBA Team Valuations
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/32/nba08_NBA-Team-Valuations_Rank.html
10th ranked San Antonio Spurs 415 million up 3% from the previous year revenues for the year 138 million :downspin:

yeah lets hold a pity party for Holt. Finley has to be kept, just like he had to be extended. :lol
:depressed

[loveforthegame]

I'm fine with the Spurs moving on. It's a shame that Bowen was the first casualty but I'm more excited about them upgrading to Jefferson in the process.

The time for depending on Bowen to be our lock down defender has passed.

[anakha]

What did Holt pay to buy the team?
NBA Team Valuations
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/32/nba08_NBA-Team-Valuations_Rank.html
10th ranked San Antonio Spurs 415 million up 3% from the previous year revenues for the year 138 million :downspin:

yeah lets hold a pity party for Holt. Finley has to be kept, just like he had to be extended. :lol
:depressed

So are you advocating for the team to waive Finley now, and sign Bowen?

Say it outright.

[SA210]

1. If you are arguing against FWD, you are probably on the wrong side.
2. Bruce is ancient
3. No near-40 player is going to come off the bench and lock someone down half their age in 8-10 minutes of playtime.
4. Fabbs is just pushing his very well-known agenda, he doesn't care about Bruce

I don't get that one.

And then Bruce is ancient? So was Kevin Willis.

And how can't he come in for 10 minutes and do well? You just saw him do it when he was used in the playoffs just months ago.

Everything you said is wrong. It's ok to not ride bandwagons, it's done me pretty good in my life.

[Bullshit Detector]

It's ok to not ride bandwagons, it's done me pretty good in my life.

Seems like you're riding Fabbs' nuts pretty good.

[Fabbs]

Seems like you're riding Fabbs' nuts pretty good.
You think you're betteren me?!
Oh wait, you have the rainbow avitar.

Nevermind.

[MajorMike]

And then Bruce is ancient? So was Kevin Willis.



Well that makes sense; Willis couldn't guard anyone anymore, either.

[SA210]

Seems like you're riding Fabbs' nuts pretty good.

Nah, I can think for myself. Not bringing Bruce back this year is a huge mistake.

[SA210]

Well that makes sense; Willis couldn't guard anyone anymore, either.

He contributed where he needed to contribute. Bruce would do the same. I don't hear someone say Bruce can't gaurd anyone anymore and I immediatly believe it, just cuz people repeat what someone said over and over again. I'm not one of those people. Bruce is still the best peremiter defender in the NBA, by far.

[spurspokesman]

I truly believe #12 will be back. Sorry for using this word but "Smokescreen or Cia pop" really makes sense in this case given the nature of the situation.

[SA210]

I truly believe #12 will be back. Sorry for using this word but "Smokescreen or Cia pop" really makes sense in this case given the nature of the situation.

I hope so.

[Fabbs]

Well, it's closure. Finley stays, Bruce leaves. :depressed:depressed
Barring some trade before the deadline, and that's doubtful as *CIA Poop* was talking about resting Mrs. PopaFin for back to backs.

Way to check our nutts out Popped.

For you haters who will twist that this post was about our title chances hinging on Bruce, it wasn't. It was about if one of two are kept, Finley or Bruce, who would it be?

Popped has shown where his loyalty lies. 5 freakin years of fulltime Finleyovich, with one title to show for it.

Lets hope the 2009-10 roster can overcome Poops incompetence.

Thanks for the years of service, Bruce!

[benefactor]

Fabbs is working hard on challenging ducks for the title of site retard.

[DisAsTerBot]

Well, it's closure. Finley stays, Bruce leaves. :depressed:depressed
Barring some trade before the deadline, and that's doubtful as *CIA Poop* was talking about resting Mrs. PopaFin for back to backs.

Way to check our nutts out Popped.

For you haters who will twist that this post was about our title chances hinging on Bruce, it wasn't. It was about if one of two are kept, Finley or Bruce, who would it be?

Popped has shown where his loyalty lies. 5 freakin years of fulltime Finleyovich, with one title to show for it.

Lets hope the 2009-10 roster can overcome Poops incompetence.

Thanks for the years of service, Bruce!

you still don't understand that it was never a one or the other situation......

[benefactor]

you still don't understand that it was never a one or the other situation......

Fabbs is working hard on challenging ducks for the title of site retard.

[Fabbs]

I'm working hard at challenging Eric_Park for boards biggest sucker of FinleyPop

[Fabbs]

you still don't understand that it was never a one or the other situation......
One of these days it will register with you that Bruce was released by the Bucks, free to sign with any team and negotiate the salary at that.

Meanwhile the 127 million dollar stealer Finley could be moved to make room for Bruce. Or if Finley had an ounce of loyalty he would thank the Spurs (including Bruce) for getting him a title and retire. Like after 2007. Certainly now.
Go away!

Thanks again Bruce.

[ChumpDumper]

You're the king of the false premise.

They would never have had to move Finley.

In reality, the Spurs chose Malik Hairston and Marcus Williams over Bruce.

[cue Fabbs' saying something like Popsucker or other five-year old attempt at an insult when faced with a simple fact.]

[Mel_13]

You're the king of the false premise.

They would never have had to move Finley.

In reality, the Spurs chose Malik Hairston and Marcus Williams over Bruce.

[cue Fabbs' saying something like Popsucker or other five-year old attempt at an insult when faced with a simple fact.]

Well said.

Unfortunately, Fabbs is not deterred by facts.

[manufan10]

Some people forget that there's a business side to it. The teams have to do what they feel is in the best interest of the team, and players do what they feel is in the best interest of them and their family. The Spurs felt that they needed to get YOUNGER, and they did. The Cowboys faced the same situations with Troy Aikman and Emmit Smith, both of them better players than Bruce Bowen, yet they were still released from the Cowboys. Sometimes it's better to move on than trying to keep things afloat with the same pieces.

[Da Spurs]

Troy Aikman retired dumbass.

[manufan10]

Troy Aikman retired dumbass.

Nice mature response. :rolleyes

Fail. He was released by Jerry first, then he retired.

[manufan10]

Troy Aikman announced his retirement from the NFL Monday afternoon, after 12 years and three Super Bowl championships as the starting quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys. Aikman, who was released by the Cowboys about a month ago, decided to call it quits when little interest was shown for his services by other NFL teams.

http://football.about.com/library/weekly/aa041001.htm

[Mel_13]

Troy Aikman retired dumbass.

Who da dumbass?

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-71567163.html

[Nathan Explosion]

Fabbs is working hard on challenging ducks for the title of site retard.

Whott in the athletic big man is not far behind.

As for Finley vs Bowen, Finley chose to stay. Pop had no say in it. Plus, Bruce was traded before Finley's decision. And Finley can still hit an outside shot (his skill) while Bruce's defense slipped.

Bruce could still be effective, but he wasn't Bruce anymore, you know?

[coyotes_geek]

Some people forget that there's a business side to it. The teams have to do what they feel is in the best interest of the team, and players do what they feel is in the best interest of them and their family. The Spurs felt that they needed to get YOUNGER, and they did. The Cowboys faced the same situations with Troy Aikman and Emmit Smith, both of them better players than Bruce Bowen, yet they were still released from the Cowboys. Sometimes it's better to move on than trying to keep things afloat with the same pieces.

Well, that's one theory. But doesn't it make so much more sense to believe that the guy who has led this team to 4 titles suddenly decided to put a man-crush for Michael Finley and a vendetta against Bruce Bowen ahead of doing what's best for the team?

[Fabbs]

Whott in the athletic big man is not far behind.

As for Finley vs Bowen, Finley chose to stay. Pop had no say in it. Plus, Bruce was traded before Finley's decision. And Finley can still hit an outside shot (his skill) while Bruce's defense slipped.

Bruce could still be effective, but he wasn't Bruce anymore, you know?
Pop had no say in it? :downspin::downspin: Cmon man, i expect that from the HumpMel etc type twisters but not you. Pop has had everything to say re Finley since 2006. In 2007 Popped took on that new position that gave him vitually all powers re player say so.

Compare Bruces shot vs Fins shot last playoffs.
Plus for every shot Fins hits he gets absolutely roasted twice (3Xs?) by the other playoff teams 3/4s, ie Josh Howard.

[manufan10]

Well, that's one theory. But doesn't it make so much more sense to believe that the guy who has led this team to 4 titles suddenly decided to put a man-crush for Michael Finley and a vendetta against Bruce Bowen ahead of doing what's best for the team?

I guess it does!


(Are you being sarcastic?) :lol

[Fabbs]

Well, that's one theory. But doesn't it make so much more sense to believe that the guy who has led this team to 4 titles suddenly decided to put a man-crush for Michael Finley and a vendetta against Bruce Bowen ahead of doing what's best for the team?
:toast
A small quantity of quality posts is worth more then a whole dance floor filled with failed redundant posters and their posts.

[coyotes_geek]

:toast
A small quantity of quality posts is worth more then a whole dance floor filled with failed redundant posters and their posts.

Because there's nothing redundant about you wanting to bump this thread over and over so that you can drop Popafinley references..........

[Mel_13]

The Life Cycle of a Fabbs Thread

1. OP with illogical or factually false premise
2. Receives criticism for OP
3. Hypocritically alters original premise
4. Attacks critics via clever combination of screen name with unflattering word
5. Doggedly resists all factual and logical opposition to position
6. Critics grow bored with educating him
7. Thread dies

[Morg1411]

:toast
A small quantity of quality posts is worth more then a whole dance floor filled with failed redundant posters and their posts.

And what would you know about "a small quantity of quality posts"?

It's over. Grow up. Take your needlessly obsessive bullshit somewhere else.

[SA210]

Shame on Pop for ending Bruce's career early. He was still the Best perimeter defender in the NBA.

[Morg1411]

Shame on Pop for ending Bruce's career early. He was still the Best perimeter defender in the NBA.

Speaking of redundancy....I repeat:

Bruce was awesome. Bruce is gone.

It's over. Grow up. Get over it.

[Fabbs]

Shame on Pop for ending Bruce's career early. He was still the Best perimeter defender in the NBA.
:toast

[manufan10]

speaking of redundancy....i repeat:

Bruce was awesome. Bruce is gone.

It's over. Grow up. Get over it.


:toast

fify

[coyotes_geek]

Shame on Pop for ending Bruce's career early. He was still the Best perimeter defender in the NBA.

Did Pop not give Bruce a permission slip to play for another team after Milwaukee cut him?

[Nathan Explosion]

Pop had no say in it? :downspin::downspin: Cmon man, i expect that from the HumpMel etc type twisters but not you. Pop has had everything to say re Finley since 2006. In 2007 Popped took on that new position that gave him vitually all powers re player say so.

Compare Bruces shot vs Fins shot last playoffs.
Plus for every shot Fins hits he gets absolutely roasted twice (3Xs?) by the other playoff teams 3/4s, ie Josh Howard.

In 2007 Pop had a say. In 2009 Finley had all the say. The Spurs couldn't trade Finley if they wanted because he hadn't decided to re-up or not.

And for the delusional, we all love Bruce, but face facts.

BRUCE WASN'T BRUCE ANYMORE. I'd like Bruce to mentor George Hill on defense, but the fact is, Bruce didn't have the legs to stay in front of anyone anymore for a significant amount of time.

[Agloco]

In 2007 Pop had a say. In 2009 Finley had all the say. The Spurs couldn't trade Finley if they wanted because he hadn't decided to re-up or not.

And for the delusional, we all love Bruce, but face facts.

BRUCE WASN'T BRUCE ANYMORE. I'd like Bruce to mentor George Hill on defense, but the fact is, Bruce didn't have the legs to stay in front of anyone anymore for a significant amount of time.

Sadly enough I think this had as much to do with the fact that he was on the bench most of the time then asked to come in during crunch time get warm and stop the other teams ace as much as his age did.

The time had come no doubt, but I think he would have been a heck of a lot more consistent if he had been getting regular minutes vs spot duty. What was asked of him was a lot for anyone, much less a 38 year old graybeard.

[Fabbs]

Besides Finhog, now the Spurs have room to sign Keith Bogans.

We get to see if timvp was right.
timvp
I've heard Pop talk glowingly about him before. He said he liked his competitive and that he brings energy every night. I'm guessing he'll be in the mix for a minimum deal.

Personally, I don't think he's the right direction to go in. Pretty good defender but not anywhere close enough to Bowen's level to justify his below average offense. Doesn't help the Spurs in athleticism or anywhere outside of just being willing to defend.

Well maybe Bruce was unwilling to take what Bogans got, $1.03 million?

Bandwidth saver for the FabbsTrolls:
"You can't sign someone who is retired Fabbs."

[DaBears]

I am starting to lean away from the old Spurs playbook of defense first And starting to make the transition to more of an uptempo style of game, which the Spurs are seemingly trying to make.. So it might not be such a bad thing, give the FO and the coaching staff a shot, we might come out of this with a bigger and stronger product then we have ever had here in SA.... Long Live the SPURS of OLD....