Ginobili:I hope he starts [Archive]

straight out of bren

07-09-2009, 01:10 AM

slick'81

07-09-2009, 01:11 AM

i dont think gino off the bench is a bad thing

peskypesky

07-09-2009, 01:12 AM

I'm down with that. I think it's time to end the Manu as 6th man experiment.

ulosturedge

07-09-2009, 01:13 AM

Mason starting is fine.. As long as Ginobili is finishing games. Pop will go with whatever works. So he might do some tinkering here and there, but I still believe Gino will be coming off the bench.

bdictjames

07-09-2009, 01:16 AM

Mason would be more effective starting on. Ginobili should still be a 6th man and get limited minutes. Would you really like a backcourt of Hill and Mason at the end of the quarters?

poeticism707

07-09-2009, 01:16 AM

Whatever is best for the team is fine by me.

Pop will tinker with lineups until he finds whatever suits him.

To tell you the truth, Duncan of the bench might not be too bad...

Think about it:

Duncan going against backups?!?

He'd destroy them.

Man In Black

07-09-2009, 01:23 AM

I'm cool either way although, it takes Manu less time to get in the flow than those other guys. Plus,an off-the-bench 1st team Manu against tired 1st teamers or even subs means the Spurs have an advantage with him on the court.

rayray2k8

07-09-2009, 01:26 AM

He'll come off the bench as usual. You should know that by now.

MannyIsGod

07-09-2009, 01:31 AM

Its much better for Manu to come off the bench for many reasons; not the least of which is his health.

brettn

07-09-2009, 01:40 AM

Its much better for Manu to come off the bench for many reasons; not the least of which is his health.

Agreed. Mason also fits in better with the 1st unit.

Gino off the bench will allow him more open looks early in the game than if he's competing with RJ and TP for shots early on.

VivaPopovich

07-09-2009, 01:46 AM

no reason for him not to start now that we got all the young guns we do

i see george hill and mason/mcclinton taking gino's former role

BillMc

07-09-2009, 01:49 AM

Hopefully no more of that sixth man stuff.Lets put our five best players out there from the start,so they can develope some chemistry.I want to see this starting five:
PG:Tony Parker
SG:Manu Ginobili
SF:Richard Jefferson
PF:Tim Duncan
C:Antonio McDyess
Man,that would be one salty starting five.

You could fill out the rotation with Hill,Mason,Blair and Bonner or something similar to that.

That will likely be our crunchtime team, so who starts doesn't really matter to me.

That said: Mason did seem more comfortable as a starter rather than a reserve last year. He's really best as a spot up shooter to make the D pay for doubling our stars or slow rotations. Manu off the bench had proven to be dynamite and allow pop to limit his minutes.

Still, your lineup above will be in place at the end of close games. (Unless Blair blossoms into a legit starter.)

BG_Spurs_Fan

07-09-2009, 01:51 AM

We're a better team with Manu off the bench. Too many touches needed for Timmy, Parker and RJ and there's only one ball.Our offense is much more effective when he comes off the bench. Besides starting Mason with TD, Tony and RJ plays to his strengths as well.

z0sa

07-09-2009, 01:52 AM

Parker2112

07-09-2009, 01:54 AM

I'd like to see a little change of strategy myself. Mainly, I'd like to see all this talent hit the ground together, with Ginobili, and let's get some blowouts so Tim can rest his knees in the 4th. I saw the Bulls do it plenty of times in the 90's, I think this team can do it if they develop the killer instinct.

:lobt2:

BillMc

07-09-2009, 01:54 AM

Indeed, to follow on what I and others have said, I am really looking forward to seeing a Blair, Hill, Manu second unit. That should be fun to watch.

RuffnReadyOzStyle

07-09-2009, 01:54 AM

Hopefully no more of that sixth man stuff.Lets put our five best players out there from the start,so they can develope some chemistry.I want to see this starting five:
PG:Tony Parker
SG:Manu Ginobili
SF:Richard Jefferson
PF:Tim Duncan
C:Antonio McDyess
Man,that would be one salty starting five.

You could fill out the rotation with Hill,Mason,Blair and Bonner or something similar to that.

I totally disagree.

Manu needs to be preserved for the playoffs, and that means playing 24mins or so off the bench, as a spark in the first 3 quarters, then closing the 4th.

Also, RJ beautifully replaces his slashing in the starting lineup, and, given that, Mason's dead-eye shooting is a better fit with the starters.

angelbelow

07-09-2009, 01:54 AM

In!

I say start em. throw out our best 5 and win the game before it even begin. if you want to conserve ginobili rest for the 2nd half of the 1st quarter and 2nd quarter. i agree that he probably shouldnt play more than 28-30 mins a night but thats no reason not to start him. i think he deserves it. everyone here knows deep down inside he wants to start but he just doesnt complain. i say roll out TP, Manu, RJ, TD, and Dice as our starting lineup.

DJB

07-09-2009, 01:56 AM

When are Spurs fans going to learn that Ginobili off the bench is what makes us so god damn dangerous?

Danny.Zhu

07-09-2009, 01:56 AM

Its much better for Manu to come off the bench for many reasons; not the least of which is his health.

Guys, correct me if I'm wrong, because I have seen arguments like this too much. I just thought coming off the bench is more energy consuming. Because:

1. You don't play the first several minutes.
2. So, if you play the same minutes as others do, you will have less time to rest.

Parker2112

07-09-2009, 02:01 AM

Guys, correct me if I'm wrong, because I have seen arguments like this too much. I just thought coming off the bench is more energy consuming. Because:

1. You don't play the first several minutes.
2. So, if you play the same minutes as others do, you will have less time to rest.

Plenty of time to rest if your up by 25 at the end of the 3rd:king

AnthonyM

07-09-2009, 02:02 AM

Also, we need a ball handler off the bench when Parker comes out....so Ginobili will be able to fill that role unless Pop decides to let Hill have a decent chance at doing so...

God forbid Mason runs the point again...

DDS4

07-09-2009, 02:02 AM

Who cares who starts. As long as the main 5 are ending games with wins, I'm happy.

raspsa

07-09-2009, 02:34 AM

Manu coming off the bench is instant energy.

angelbelow

07-09-2009, 02:39 AM

we have a bunch of potential energizer bunnies. i say let manu start and rotating players earlier.

mathbzh

07-09-2009, 02:41 AM

I prefer Manu coming off the bench. Right now we don't have a legitimate backup PG (hopefully Hill can become one), so I am more comfortable if Manu is there.

Spurs da champs

07-09-2009, 02:45 AM

Just because Mason became a back up pg and took that pg role late in the season & play offs doesn't mean that it ruined his jump shot he still should have been clutch

Spurtacus

07-09-2009, 03:08 AM

Manu off the bench to lead the second team. He would likely be the primary ball handler (unless Hill has made strides this offseason).

sa_kid20

07-09-2009, 03:38 AM

I totally disagree.

Manu needs to be preserved for the playoffs, and that means playing 24mins or so off the bench, as a spark in the first 3 quarters, then closing the 4th.

Also, RJ beautifully replaces his slashing in the starting lineup, and, given that, Mason's dead-eye shooting is a better fit with the starters.

Actually wouldn't Manu starting preserve him more than him coming off the bench and being the focal point of the offense with the 2nd unit? If he starts he won't need to do as much because Tim, Tony, and RJ will also be out there.

When Manu came off the bench he would usually come in at around the 6 min mark so why not just start him and take him out at the 6 min mark? I just think its important for the Big 3 to be on the floor with Dice and RJ to build some chemisty and get used to eachother since that will most likely be our money lineup at the end of games.

SA210

07-09-2009, 04:14 AM

Manu should start.

ChumpDumper

07-09-2009, 04:18 AM

I would rather keep our Argentinian posters insulted and indignant.

Rick Von Braun

07-09-2009, 04:25 AM

Its much better for Manu to come off the bench for many reasons; not the least of which is his health.

I never understood this line of reasoning... For the same number of minutes played, it is more stressful on his body to come off the bench. I have explained this ad nauseum for many years.

In any case, the main drawback of coming off the bench with the rotation that Pop uses is the little playing time overlap with Duncan. They (TD and Manu) were for many years one of the most productive combos in the NBA, until the rotation split them apart. Statistically, the synergy of both playing together was unmatched.

RuffnReadyOzStyle

07-09-2009, 04:26 AM

Actually wouldn't Manu starting preserve him more than him coming off the bench and being the focal point of the offense with the 2nd unit? If he starts he won't need to do as much because Tim, Tony, and RJ will also be out there.

When Manu came off the bench he would usually come in at around the 6 min mark so why not just start him and take him out at the 6 min mark? I just think its important for the Big 3 to be on the floor with Dice and RJ to build some chemisty and get used to eachother since that will most likely be our money lineup at the end of games.

Manu is a creator, something Mason isn't great at, so who is going to create for the team off the bench? Hill a bit, but it's an ideal role for Manu.

I don't think playing him with the starters would preserve him any more than playing him with the second team - either way he's going to play like Manu. But if you put him with the starters you've got 4 guys wanting the ball (everyone except Dice), and you don't have a pure 3pt shooter out there. I know RJ shot 40% last year, and Manu can shoot about the same, but Mason fits the starters, and Manu the bench, so much better.

Anyway, Pop will sort this stuff out in camp. I just hope he only plays Manu about half a game, with one long stint (or two short ones) in the first half, a long stint in the 3rd, and the last 8 mins of the 4th.

mystargtr34

07-09-2009, 04:43 AM

I would bring him off the bench. The team maintains more of a balance that way.

Another thing is that Pop has the luxury of keeping two 'stars' on the court at all times, so Manu isnt forced to come in and be the lone scoring and creating option like he has been before.

timtonymanu

07-09-2009, 05:57 AM

I prefer Manu to come off the bench. It balances the offense. Tony will give you 20 ppg. Mason will give about 8-9 ppg. Jefferson 12-13 ppg. Duncan 18-19 ppg. McDyess 8-9 ppg. Manu off the bench will give about 13-14 ppg.

Chieflion

07-09-2009, 06:27 AM

Manu coming off the bench next season will be different from him coming off the bench last few seasons. Last few seasons, Manu either had none of Tony Parker or Duncan in the game with him when he first checks in to the game and sometimes has to carry the entire offense. Now that the Spurs added Jefferson, most likely Manu will play with at least 1 or 2 of them relieving his pressure on offense, so it is best for Ginobili to start off the bench next season.

TJastal

07-09-2009, 06:27 AM

I'm kinda leaning toward Manu as a starter on opening day too. Why? It will be much less pressure on him (and ultimately his tender ankle).

Maybe once we're a good chunk into the season and he's full recovered (lets pray this happens) the spurs can think about thrusting him into his old 6th man role, which basically puts the onus on him to carry the offense.

Slippy

07-09-2009, 06:29 AM

Manu off the bench would probably suit Manu and the team better but if you want to concerve Manu for the play-offs it wouldn't hurt to start him. With Jefferson on board Pop is going to be ultra-conservative in his approach to Manu than previous seasons.

TJastal

07-09-2009, 06:30 AM

Solid D

07-09-2009, 06:57 AM

As a fan, I don't care if Manu starts the game. I just don't want to be on the phone or getting refreshments or away taking a bio-break and miss any action when Manu is IN THE GAME!!!

Spursmania

07-09-2009, 07:26 AM

beirmeistr

07-09-2009, 07:35 AM

I never understood this line of reasoning... For the same number of minutes played, it is more stressful on his body to come off the bench. I have explained this ad nauseum for many years.

In any case, the main drawback of coming off the bench with the rotation that Pop uses is the little playing time overlap with Duncan. They (TD and Manu) were for many years one of the most productive combos in the NBA, until the rotation split them apart. Statistically, the synergy of both playing together was unmatched.

I agree. His effectiveness off the bench can be nullified by double-teaming him, which might lead to extra effort on his part that could cause an injury.
Let's quit using Gino as a linus blanket because we don't trust our bench and let's start our best five players.

urunobili

07-09-2009, 08:14 AM

I think he'll start until he gets used to paying with RJ and Dice in the lineup... then.. Pop will take him back to the bench... it'll take like 20, 25 games before he is totally comfortable with them...

Dr. Gonzo

07-09-2009, 08:14 AM

As long as Finley doesn't start, I don't care.

ElNono

07-09-2009, 08:21 AM

Pop has always said the reason he didn't start him is that we didn't have enough punch off the bench. I think he will begin the season as a starter, then, depending how our bench produces, he'll either be moved back to the bench or be solidified as a starter.

coyotes_geek

07-09-2009, 08:21 AM

Makes no difference to me. As long as we've got at least 2 of the big 4 on the court at all times everything else will work itself out.

RuffnReadyOzStyle

07-09-2009, 08:29 AM

As a fan, I don't care if Manu starts the game. I just don't want to be on the phone or getting refreshments or away taking a bio-break and miss any action when Manu is IN THE GAME!!!

Well said, sir! :tu

I miss the halcyon days of 2004-07 when it always seemed to be Manu-time... :depressed

Bukefal

07-09-2009, 08:32 AM

he'll be coming of the bench for sure. And I dont mind that. I still think he should have been traded, but i dont see it coming. We had a good offseason so far.

phyzik

07-09-2009, 08:39 AM

When are Spurs fans going to learn that Ginobili off the bench is what makes us so god damn dangerous?

Bolded and Italicized for emphasis.

spurs_fan_in_exile

07-09-2009, 08:48 AM

RJ gives the Spurs enough scoring in the starting line up that Manu can come off the bench and be a playmaker. The way the second unit is shaping up there are guys that can't get their own shot, but with a guy who can demand double teams and generally create havoc like Manu they could be elevated into Bum Rush Crew '09-10. The role players on this team are looking very versatile and Manu is the x-factor that can make the whole thing run. You could put him out there with shooters like Bonner, Finley, and McClinton and let him attack the hoop and kick out to the open man. Being able to get into the paint and unbalance an offense could give room for Blair to operate and get put backs or catch the occasional dump off pass a la Oberto. Or find athletes like Hill and Mahinmi cutting to the hoop. Or just score a billion points in 5 minutes like he does sometimes.

Bottom line, putting the ball in Manu's hands usually leads to good things. Putting the ball in Manu's hands when there are three other legit scoring options on the floor is not the most efficient way to use him when he can't do more than 25-30 minutes a night.

Extra Stout

07-09-2009, 09:00 AM

I think the decision whether or not to start Ginobili only affects the first-half rotation. In the second-half, Ginobili is going to get the bulk of his minutes and is going to finish out the game with the Spurs' best players regardless.

So, the choices:

1) Spurs start Parker-Ginobili-Jefferson and sub out for a Hill-Mason-Finley lineup late in the first. Ginobili comes back in in the middle of the second quarter, plays a few minutes, then Mason comes back in and finishes the half.

2) Spurs start Parker-Mason-Jefferson and sub out for a Hill-Ginobili-Finley lineup. Ginobili is the focal point of the offense during his first shift. He sits down for a few minutes in the second, then comes back in with the big guns to finish the half.

symple19

07-09-2009, 09:09 AM

I agree - Start him - but no way pop let's it happen

coyotes_geek

07-09-2009, 09:22 AM

Whether Manu starts or not I think the plan has to be for Manu to get most of his minutes paired with Jefferson and three guys from the backup unit. Tim and Tony work so well together so you want to maximize the time they share the court, which also means they'll be on the bench together. When they're taking their breathers a group led by Manu and Jefferson, with say Hill, Blair and Haislip/Bonner is still going to be a solid offensive group.

TMTTRIO

07-09-2009, 09:45 AM

I think it's time for Manu to start. We need to stop relying on him to do everything off the bench. I think he needs to start playing with Tim, Tony, and Richard so that there's not much pressure on him to produce right away. I know I've heard Manu and some other guys say it's a lot of pressure to come off the bench and produce right away in the small amount of time that your out there. I'd just rather have him start with our other Big 3 so that he doesn't feel the need to produce right away and put his health at risk. I really think with a year under his belt George Hill could be a great Sixth man plus a lot of the youngsters. Eventually we're going to have to stop relying on Manu always being our Sixth Man. What's going to happen when he leaves?

tmtcsc

07-09-2009, 10:14 AM

The only reason Gino came off the bench was because he had to. Other players sucked if they didn't start but not Manu. He could do both. I think we have some new blood that can give us a spark when they come in OR maintain the lead that this line up:

Duncan
Dice
Parker
Ginobili
Jefferson

can provide for us.

Once the game gets going, Pop will find a way to substitute that keeps a stud on the floor at all times. This should be a really effective roster this year. We have some youth, injury insurance and just flat out better players.

If everyone stays healthy, this thing is between us and the Lakers. I'd still like to see if we can get another healthy Center on the roster. Splitter is a LONG shot and I just don't have faith in Mahinmi. Even before all the injury problems, Ian wasn't that impressive. If he finds a way to become a defensive force and a rebounder then he might have a good career. Otherwise, his offensive game is brutal.

thOOdee

07-09-2009, 10:14 AM

i disagree, imagine the line up.

gino
hill/jack
gist/hairston
marcus/blair
ian/bonner

his experience will really help that second unit of YOUTH!!

i am so happy to say youth and spurs in the same sentence again. i really hope gino runs the unit though. MASON SUCKED AT POINT and although hill showed some glimpses i still don't trust his decisions all the time. gino taking the reigns would just dominate. "ALLEY TO GIST,,,,,BOOM SHAKALAKA!"

plus w oberto gone i could see blair filling in that dish and layup position w his 7"2 wingspan.