The democrats have reduced taxes!

[Wild Cobra]

Yep, that's right. In some cases people no longer pay taxes!

You know why... People are now working lower paying jobs, or are unemployed. So many people now pay far less in taxes, and no taxes in some cases.

Congratulations democrats. You did it. You reduced taxes!

Tax relief democrat style...

[spurster]

Wow! They don't pay sales tax, SS taxes, gas taxes, phone fees, or license fees either?

[ElNono]

:cheer Republicans Good, Democrats Bad :cheer

[DarkReign]

:cheer Republicans Good, Democrats Bad :cheer

...long and short of it there.

I am surprised Obama can be saddled with so much blame 6 months into his Presidency.

[DarkReign]

For what its worth, the next President will have to deal with Obama's decisions in the same manner. I personally think Obama and his Democratic Congress are making things far worse for future Americans, but I cant look at this economy and say with a straight face "Oh yeah, this is alllll the Dems faults. Stupid libruls."

[jacobdrj]

I don't buy the 'for future american's' crap. It is what he does now for now that has my attention, just as it was with the Bush administration.

Again, long term financial problems amount to the treasure declaring bankruptcy. It would suck, but is doable. Nobody wants that.

It is whether he can solve the corruption/ignorance problems of the previous administration that has my interest.

Bush administration wanted their cake and to eat it too... Deregulation while pushing things like home ownership rights and a huge military budget with a conflict of interest that went as high as the vice presidency. You can have 1, but not both.

I am not entirely sure the Obama administration is focusing on the issues I deem relevant. But it really has been only 6 months.

[jacobdrj]

mispost

[George Gervin's Afro]

Yep, that's right. In some cases people no longer pay taxes!

You know why... People are now working lower paying jobs, or are unemployed. So many people now pay far less in taxes, and no taxes in some cases.

Congratulations democrats. You did it. You reduced taxes!

Tax relief democrat style...

were you posting drunk again?

[Wild Cobra]

...long and short of it there.

I am surprised Obama can be saddled with so much blame 6 months into his Presidency.
Well, I am a firm believer that the economy would be on the rise without the democrats in power. Also, don't forget, the demonrats have been making policy decisions ion congress for 2-1/2 years now.

were you posting drunk again?
Ha. Ha... I was making lite of the reality. Unemployment keeps rising. Wasn't it suppose to stop and 8% and weren't we already suppose to be in recovery? Now there's talk of another bailout... That will cause a deeper repression of the economy, or job losses, less tax paying citizens. In other words, more people paying less taxes. The Demonrats version of tax cuts. More people looking now to government for a bailout. More people to become voters for demonrats believing their empty promises.

[DarkReign]

Well, I am a firm believer that the economy would be on the rise without the democrats in power. Also, don't forget, the democrtas have beem making policy decisions ion congress for 2-1/2 years now.

Are you disingenuous on purpose?

[DarkReign]

I don't buy the 'for future american's' crap. It is what he does now for now that has my attention, just as it was with the Bush administration.

Again, long term financial problems amount to the treasure declaring bankruptcy. It would suck, but is doable. Nobody wants that.

That thinking is exactly what leads to the mess we find ourselves in now. Its good to know you share the same opinion as the last 40 years of economically deficient politicians to hold office, I guess.

[Wild Cobra]

Are you disingenuous on purpose?
How do you mean?

Are you disputing that the democrats were in control of the 110th congress, from January 3, 2007 – January 3, 2009? When did the economy start taking a dive? Wasn't it mid 2007, after the democrats scared business and consumers with their normal spiel? So what if I went farther than just Obama. We had no such problems when the republicans controlled congress, and it did not start with them. Remember, many of them tried to stop the housing crisis.

How about jobs:

http://forecasts.org/images/leading-indicator/gnp.gif (http://forecasts.org/gnp.htm)

And I would disagree with the jobs losses bottoming out as soon as the graph shows.

[DarkReign]

Man, if youre...you know....

I watch other people here do this with you and I dont find it as amusing as they do. I find it be quite pathetic that a person with your intellect and formulated opinions would so blindly follow your chosen consonant with such vigor and regard.

For all your advances in life and business, youre still just as ignorant and unassuming as those whom you think are below you on the political think chart.

Case in point:

No legislation goes into law in this country without a Presidential signature. That you could blame this entire fiasco on Dems, while a Republican President was presiding, is beyond me.

Did he not have veto power? Or is that myth? Did he have to trade his signature on this legislation so he could get Congress' support on another? Maybe...but thems' the breaks, kid.

You should know this by now, you should know the entire scope of employment, dollar value, banking legitmacy and housing prices arent solely the fault of anyone or any party. They are a confluence of events that have been in the making for 40 years by various individuals and corporations (who are legally, individuals) in attempt to prolong a lifestyle that is unsustainable.

The American Lifestyle. It was a fanciful dream that your parents, you and me got to live for quite some time. But we're waking up now. You cant kick debt down the road forever, when private business thrives on increasing profits. Those smart individuals will find ways to increase that number, come hell or high water.

If they have to hire an army of lobbyists to get shit done on their behalf, they will. If they have to buy and sell politicians based on campaign donations and political connections, they will.

What people fail to realize is that politicians do not benefit much (relatively speaking) from all these wheelings and dealings, private industry does....for awhile anyway. Politicians are puppets, they wear out and have to be replaced. You chew em up and spit em out, regardless of their chosen affiliation.

Get an idealogical one? Support his opponent en masse.
Wont sign this legislation like a good boy? Marginalize him/her amongst their peers and watch them rot on the vine for their one term.

I wish it was as easy as you think its, that blame could be so easily laid at the feet of the nearest target, but it just isnt that simple.

It isnt meant to be simple. Thats the beauty of a bureaucracy.

[Wild Cobra]

Case in point:

No legislation goes into law in this country without a Presidential signature. That you could blame this entire fiasco on Dems, while a Republican President was presiding, is beyond me.

I know that. In the case of the last 2 years of President Bush's administration, the down talking the democrats did about a slow growing economy caused more harm than any legislation. People plan their investments and purchases on the futures outlook. All the downplay of a weak, but growing economy sent us into this repression. Then it worsened with the housing bubble bursting, which was clearly foreseen by anyone with investing experience. Now the bailouts are repressing us worse.


Did he not have veto power? Or is that myth? Did he have to trade his signature on this legislation so he could get Congress' support on another? Maybe...but thems' the breaks, kid.

I never said President Bush held no fault. He should have never signed the first bailout.


You should know this by now, you should know the entire scope of employment, dollar value, banking legitmacy and housing prices arent solely the fault of anyone or any party. They are a confluence of events that have been in the making for 40 years by various individuals and corporations (who are legally, individuals) in attempt to prolong a lifestyle that is unsustainable.

I agree. Both parties are at fault. I simply blame democrats far more than republicans. There is ample evidence that many republicans tried to stop this from happening several years ago. I don't know of any democrats foreseeing what happened.


The American Lifestyle. It was a fanciful dream that your parents, you and me got to live for quite some time. But we're waking up now. You cant kick debt down the road forever, when private business thrives on increasing profits. Those smart individuals will find ways to increase that number, come hell or high water.

Why are we poorly regulating rather than returning good competition and the free market?

Agreed, so why are the democrats insisting on more spending?

Why are they budgeting to spend so much money for so many years when hiostorical statistics limit federal revenue to a little over 18% GNP?


If they have to hire an army of lobbyists to get shit done on their behalf, they will. If they have to buy and sell politicians based on campaign donations and political connections, they will.

Yep. So why are voters so stipid they cannot see this and vote those who take these bribes voted out?

Because of the three wolves and one lamb, taking the vote as for what's for dinner. People today are unpatriotic without realizing it. They fore with the "ME" attitude rather than what's best for this nation. They vote in those who bring them the pork. That's what we need to stop somehow.


What people fail to realize is that politicians do not benefit much (relatively speaking) from all these wheelings and dealings, private industry does....for awhile anyway. Politicians are puppets, they wear out and have to be replaced. You chew em up and spit em out, regardless of their chosen affiliation.

Get an idealogical one? Support his opponent en masse.
Wont sign this legislation like a good boy? Marginalize him/her amongst their peers and watch them rot on the vine for their one term.
I agree, most are. The good ones get slandered to death.


I wish it was as easy as you think its, that blame could be so easily laid at the feet of the nearest target, but it just isnt that simple.

It isnt meant to be simple. Thats the beauty of a bureaucracy.

I know it's not simple.

Tell me, how often do you see me not go to a root problem rather than a symptom?

[LnGrrrR]

WC,

You think our economy is predicated on the predictions of people 'in the know' as it were?

So do you think our magical economy would get better if everyone in the know just said it was getting better?

Is this a Peter Pan economy, where, if we just believe, we can fly, we can fly, we can fly?

[Wild Cobra]

WC,

You think our economy is predicated on the predictions of people 'in the know' as it were?

So do you think our magical economy would get better if everyone in the know just said it was getting better?

Is this a Peter Pan economy, where, if we just believe, we can fly, we can fly, we can fly?
There is some truth to both positive and negative thinking. I would contend it's easier for negative ideas to cause problems than it is for positive ideas to fix them.

[jacobdrj]

That thinking is exactly what leads to the mess we find ourselves in now. Its good to know you share the same opinion as the last 40 years of economically deficient politicians to hold office, I guess.

What happens in the private sector is different from what happens in the public center. Our current financial situation is a result of lax regulation enforcement and a push by the government to make bad financial decisions at the same time. The government and country would have been better off letting all those bad banks fail, paying out appropriate FDIC insurance claims, and letting the healthy banks take their places.

[SnakeBoy]

There is some truth to both positive and negative thinking. I would contend it's easier for negative ideas to cause problems than it is for positive ideas to fix them.

The malaise is back.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=482209

[Winehole23]

The malaise is backIt never left. We just ignored it. We can't ignore it much longer.

[Winehole23]

If we don't change, economically and spiritually -- tout suite -- we'll keep swirling downward. Carter's policy may have been mistaken, but the diagnosis wasn't.

[LnGrrrR]

There is some truth to both positive and negative thinking. I would contend it's easier for negative ideas to cause problems than it is for positive ideas to fix them.

Then shouldn't you only be praising the Democrats plans? Cmon WC! Help out our economy! Do your part!

[Winehole23]

*All these conservative nutters are talking the economy down and giving aid and comfort to our enemies. Traitors!*

[Wild Cobra]

Then shouldn't you only be praising the Democrats plans? Cmon WC! Help out our economy! Do your part!
My voice isn't heard by millions, like what you hear on the Main Scream Media. Besides, the truth is one thing, lies is another.

[Spursmania]

Yep, that's right. In some cases people no longer pay taxes!

You know why... People are now working lower paying jobs, or are unemployed. So many people now pay far less in taxes, and no taxes in some cases.

Congratulations democrats. You did it. You reduced taxes!

Tax relief democrat style...

Exactly. Wealth redistribution here we come.

Who's not going to want free health care paid for them by the people who are successful and wealthy.

Yep, looks like I'll be paying for hundreds of people's health care. Socialist health care here we come! There are limited amount of doctors in this country, and to believe that health care won't be rationed after this partisan socialist bill passes is simply naive.

My spouses' colleagues are already talking about cutting their hours, since they will be getting taxed to death, and paying for the health care.

Rationing here we come, and if you don't think it's true good luck when you have a serious illness and you have to wait in line to see a Doctor who (based on their pay cuts, medicare cuts, and the new health care tax) will not be staying late to see you.

Welcome to Obamacare where the rich get plowed for being successful and the rest applaud free healthcare --that will be nowhere near the quality they were used too. :lmao

[Marcus Bryant]

http://www.taxfoundation.org/UserFiles/Image/Tax-Freedom-Day/TFD-graph-large.jpg


America Celebrates Tax Freedom Day®

Read the full Tax Freedom Day report here. (http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/93.html)

America Will Work 8 Days Less to Pay Taxes in 2009 than in 2008; Recession, Stimulus Package Push Date of Celebration Up

Washington, DC, March 31, 2009 - Tax Freedom Day will arrive on April 13 this year, according to the Tax Foundation's annual calculation using the latest government data on income and taxes.

This is eight days earlier than in 2008, and a full two weeks earlier than in 2007, for two reasons: (1) the recession has reduced tax collections even faster than it has reduced income, and (2) the stimulus package includes large temporary tax cuts for 2009 and 2010. Nevertheless, Americans will pay more in taxes than they will spend on food, clothing and housing combined.


Which Taxes Are the Biggest?

Five major categories of tax dominate the tax burden. Individual income taxes, both federal and state, require 38 days' work. Payroll taxes take another 27 days' work. Sales and excise taxes, mostly state and local, take 15 days to pay off. Corporate income taxes take 6 days, and property taxes take 12. Americans will log 4 more days to pay other miscellaneous taxes, most notably including motor vehicle license taxes and severance taxes, and about 1 day for estate taxes.

source (http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxfreedomday/)

[DMX7]

My voice isn't heard by millions, like what you hear on the Main Scream Media. Besides, the truth is one thing, lies is another.

Your "argument" is weak and your logic stretched.

What I do know, however, is that you're either with America... or you're with the terrorists.

[Wild Cobra]

Well, when you have so many people making lower wages and unemployed, it skews the numbers. I wonder what the numbers would be, broken down by income category.

[Wild Cobra]

OK, I understand:

Calculation of Tax Freedom Day (http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/23039.html)

They use CBO projections.

I wonder how wrong that will be after reconciliation of the numbers?