Lincecum best pitcher?

[holcs50]

I've always liked the giants and have been keeping up closely with lincecum the last few years. Gotta say he's f'ing amazing how at that size he generates that much torque and power. I would say his pitching over last year and this year so far could warrant him the best pitcher right now. My list would probably be

Lincecum
Halladay
Haren
Santana
Greinke
bunch like beckett, cain, verlander, carpenter

[ducks]

haren is better except for wins and strikeouts this year
be intersting to see if haren does not get worse the second half like he did last year

[JamStone]

Tough call between Lincecum and Haren this season.

I might go with Haren though.

[holcs50]

haren is better except for wins and strikeouts this year
be intersting to see if haren does not get worse the second half like he did last year

yea ducks haren is better numbers wise like era, and whip, but its very close. I mean do you watch him pitch tho? All I know is I've seen haren pitch a few games and I've also seen lincecum pitch a few games this year. NO doubt lincecum throws the nastiest shit. It's just ridic what he throws, haren is awesome too, but he's got the size and the build of a "normal" great pitcher. Lincey is far from it and he still is unbelievable. We'll see at the end of the year but you gotta watch, can't go by numbers when they are that close.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Haren's entire career his production takes a serious dip after the all star break, Lincecum > Haren until Haren proves he can have a consistently dominant season.

[holcs50]

DoK your right again haren does crash. We'll see. Everyone tho this year is like haren is amazing pitching for a shit team-which i do recognize-but good lord weren't the g-men supposed to be shitty this year and they were shit last year. He still put up an amazing amount of wins last year for that shit club. If the g's can get a few bats-yikes i wouldn't want to face them as an opposing team in a 5 game series. Haren is pretty damn good tho-just think he's a notch below lincecum at this time. close.

[IronMexican]

Lincecum

[tlongII]

Felix is the best pitcher in the big leagues. No question about it.

[v2freak]

^I question that. He's good and he's young, but to call him the best pitcher in a major league that totes Halladay, Lincecum, Beckett, Lester, Haren, Greinke, Peavy, Oswalt, J Johnson etc

[holcs50]

whats funny about baseball-i cant stand watching a game unless im there, but watching lincecum is just amusing-i guess its just wondering how he's going to own the next batter and watching this little body hurle 95's consistently-more like 97s haha. BEAST

[tlongII]

^I question that. He's good and he's young, but to call him the best pitcher in a major league that totes Halladay, Lincecum, Beckett, Lester, Haren, Greinke, Peavy, Oswalt, J Johnson etc

Felix is better than all those dudes. He's unbeavable.

[La Peace]

I chose linecum for my fantasy team like oh two years ago and dude was balling for me then. Homie is straight up nasty, no one gets down like he does on a regular basis now a days.

[Fillmoe]

lincecum... easy!

[holcs50]

I chose linecum for my fantasy team like oh two years ago and dude was balling for me then. Homie is straight up nasty, no one gets down like he does on a regular basis now a days.

love this guy, lincy owns all, bow down to the 5 foot 10 98 fastball...and a wicked curve...and prob the nastiest change up this side of the sun.

[tlongII]

Lincecum got lit up in the all star game.

[ducks]

haren lowers his era to 1.96 tonight

16 out of 19 games he has not allowed 2 runs or more

3 games in may his era was 4.96
other then that he has been unreal

oh and haren's first 4 games he had like maybe 7 runs total in support

[ducks]

Lincecum got lit up in the all star game.

only reason he was the starter because he won the cy young last year
but that should not matter

[ducks]

Haren's entire career his production takes a serious dip after the all star break, Lincecum > Haren until Haren proves he can have a consistently dominant season.

I agree but the season is not over
right now haren is greater that lincecum
also first outing after allseaon was a stud

haren has 6 rbi's this year
so I think he does not suck on the plae

[symple19]

I'm a huge Giants fan that lives in the bay area and goes to games. I haven't seen him pitch yet in person but I watch all the games and the guy is ridiculous. He's learned how to pitch this year. His changeup/splitter(low 80s) has developed and his curve(high 70s) has become a 12 to 6er that he can locate.Timmy Couldn't do that last year and relied on his fastball(mid to high 90s) more often to get K's. I agree Haren's numbers are better but he doesn't dominate games like Tim does.I used to watch Haren when he was in Oakland and his greatest asset is his K/BB ratio. I give Dan a lot of credit for doing all this on a terrible team, But I have to say Lincecum is better. 'The Freak'(his nickname) also fields his position well, as evidenced by a sprinting/sliding catch he made in foul territory on the first base side the other night.He's an above average hitter(for a pitcher).Tim is an athlete, not something you can say about a lot of pitchers. His unorthodox pitching style has taken a lot of heat because of the violent motion, but he developed it with his father when he was a young boy and has never had any injury problems. We in the bay area are lucky to have him. GO GIANTS!!!!

[gaKNOW!blee]

I agree but the season is not over
right now haren is greaten that lincecum
also first outing after allseaon was a stud

What the FUCK are you saying?


Are you retarded?

[slayermin]

I'd probably still pick Josh Beckett in a game seven over anyone mentioned.

[symple19]

I'd probably still pick Josh Beckett in a game seven over anyone mentioned.
I really like Beckett also. Love the nasty demeanor and his desire to be put in the pressure situation. Hopefully he and the rest of the Sox can keep beating the 'Evil Empire', god I hate the yankees!!

[tlongII]

In a big game I'm going to take Felix. The guy is just flat out NASTY! He's just been overpowering for the last couple of months.

[ducks]

I take webb on 4 days rest
to make sure his sinking is sinking

[KSeal]

Clayton Kershaw has been the best pitcher in the majors the past month and the guy in only 21! Just give it a year or two and he'll be the best pitcher in the major leagues.

Lincecum, Felix, please, I'll take Kershaw!!!!!

[symple19]

Clayton Kershaw has been the best pitcher in the majors the past month and the guy in only 21! Just give it a year or two and he'll be the best pitcher in the major leagues.

Lincecum, Felix, please, I'll take Kershaw!!!!!
Rofl at you elevating this dude Kershaw(he is good, but not that good) over Felix and Lincecum. I'd even take the Braves Hanson over Kershaw. There are easily 20 better starters in the league,EASILY. Let's see how he does the rest of this year going into next year and you can try that post again.

[KSeal]

Rofl at you elevating this dude Kershaw(he is good, but not that good) over Felix and Lincecum. I'd even take the Braves Hanson over Kershaw. There are easily 20 better starters in the league,EASILY. Let's see how he does the rest of this year going into next year and you can try that post again.

I was being a blind homer in honor of TLong, faggot. You thought I was being serious? :lmao I'd take Felix and Cum over Kershaw in a second, but Kershaw is pretty damn good. 5-0 in his last 7 starts with like 0.6 ERA. He's been the Dodgers best pitcher the last two months.

[gaKNOW!blee]

I was being a blind homer in honor of TLong, faggot. You thought I was being serious? :lmao I'd Cum over Kershaw in a second, but Kershaw is pretty damn good. 5-0 in his last 7 starts with like 0.6 ERA. He's been the Dodgers best pitcher the last two months.

wtf?:wow

[KSeal]

wtf?:wow

Lincecum that is :lol

[whottt]

In a big game I'm going to take Felix. The guy is just flat out NASTY! He's just been overpowering for the last couple of months.

How do you know Felix can perform at the same level in a big game? He hasn't been in one yet.

[tlongII]

How do you know Felix can perform at the same level in a big game? He hasn't been in one yet.

And Lincecum has been in how many???

[tlongII]

How do you know Felix can perform at the same level in a big game? He hasn't been in one yet.

Check out Felix's stats in games he's started after a Mariners loss.

[tlongII]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2009491738_mari18.html

CLEVELAND — The Mariners had the perfect method to sweep aside the sloppy remains of Thursday's deflating defeat.

Send Felix Hernandez to the mound.

Funny how much sharper a team looks with an overpowering ace on the mound. With Hernandez pitching excellently in his first start since working a perfect inning in Tuesday's All-Star Game, the Mariners breezed past the Indians, 6-2, at Progressive Field.

Hernandez limited the Indians to five hits and two runs in eight innings, striking out eight, to raise his record to 10-3. More tellingly, he is 9-2 after a Seattle loss.

"That's an ace. That's an All-Star," said Mariners' manager Don Wakamatsu. "We talked last night how much our starting pitching sets the tone of a ballgame. For him to go deep, into the eighth inning, and turn it over to [David] Aardsma, it gives us a confidence level that really helps this team."

Hernandez has now gone seven or more innings in his past eight starts, the longest active streak in the majors. Over his past 10 starts, he is 6-0 with a 1.30 earned-run average.

"It's exciting any time you play behind a guy with that type of stuff," said new third baseman Jack Hannahan, who is enjoying watching Hernandez from his new vantage point, rather than facing him at the plate.

"It was not very fun," he said of the latter experience. "It was the big talk in the clubhouse: 'We're facing King Felix', so it kind of riles everyone up. I'm very happy I don't have to face him anymore."

Hernandez says he relishes the challenge of revitalizing the team after a defeat, especially one as sloppy as Thursday's.

"It was important for us after the loss that I go out there [and] do my job — give the opportunity for the team to win the game," he said, as his victory music, the bouncy "El Mariachi Loco," played loudly in the background.

"They scored a couple runs and I was like, 'All right, guys, let's go.' "
Hernandez deflected praise to an unlikely offensive source, shortstop Ronny Cedeno. Since reaching rock-bottom at .117 on June 27, Cedeno's average is up to .180. He has driven in nine runs in his past 15 games.
Two of those runs batted in came Friday, each via a two-out single.

"It's good to see," said Hernandez, who grew up near Cedeno in Venezuela. "He's been really struggling, but he's a great player. At shortstop, he's unbelievable. The way he's hitting now, he just looks better. He's been hitting the ball hard and he's feeling better now."

And that comes from playing every day, as Cedeno has done since Yuniesky Betancourt went on the disabled list June 25. And now that Betancourt has been traded, Cedeno is ensconced as the everyday shortstop, at least for now.

"I'm feeling comfortable," Cedeno said. "I'm working hard every day with AC [Alan Cockrell], the hitting coach. I think it's timing. I'm trying to get my timing back. When you see more pitches, you get your timing back. Playing every day has helped a lot."

Said Wakamatsu: "As a bench player, you're constantly reminded of that number [the low batting average], and you feel you can never get over it. Now that he's playing every day, it gives him a breath of fresh air. Everything starts to exude more confidence. Some of the home runs he's hit — those will give you a little confidence in itself."

The Mariners, a day after getting throttled by Cliff Lee, gave Hernandez more than enough support. They started their scoring in the second when Franklin Gutierrez, an Indian the previous four seasons, connected off Cleveland starter David Huff for his 11th homer.

The M's mounted a two-out rally in the fourth, started by Rob Johnson's double. After Hannahan walked, Cedeno and Ichiro delivered run-scoring singles.

The bottom of the order struck again with two outs in the sixth. Hannahan drew another walk, stole second, and came home on Cedeno's single to left. Cedeno came home on an error by Cleveland pitcher Jose Veras.

Ken Griffey Jr. contributed an RBI single in the seventh, the first run he has driven in since July 1. Griffey beat the shift by grounding the ball into left-center.

Hernandez lost his shutout in the sixth when Grady Sizemore drilled a one-out triple off the top of the wall in center, barely missing a homer, and scored on Asdrubal Cabrera's sacrifice fly.

Sizemore, from Cascade High School in Everett, got to Hernandez again in the eighth, doubling off the base of the right-field wall to drive in Luis Valbuena from second.

Note

Despite Thursday's stinker of an outing, Garrett Olson will remain in the rotation and get another start Tuesday in Detroit, Wakamatsu said.

This is consistent with Wakamatsu's desire to build a comfort zone where players don't always feel like they're pitching for their baseball lives.

"Right now, we haven't even talked about it [changing pitchers]," Wakamatsu said. "Obviously it happened yesterday. But I think you get to a point where you have to be able to work through some things and not just vacate on him. We already have some depth, and we have a plan on the guys that are down there already."

[whottt]

Check out Felix's stats in games he's started after a Mariners loss.

Mariners' losses are pretty routine so starting after them is a typical, rather than big game, circumstance. Not an adequate test...certainly nothing in the league of Beckett or even Cole Hamels. Without a doubt the guy has got some nasty stuff, but to say he's big game proven is way off the mark.

[scottspurs]

he will fall apart in a couple of years.

[turiaf for president]

tlong seriously can u stop being a homer? geez. feliz is a great pitcher but hes never even been in the post season. at least lincecum has won a cy young.

its halladay, haren, or santana. proven guys who year in and year out produce. lincecum is in that discussion because of the cy young

felix is in the second tier with greinke, josh johnson, cliff lee, CC, beckett, jackson, etc.

[tlongII]

tlong seriously can u stop being a homer? geez. feliz is a great pitcher but hes never even been in the post season. at least lincecum has won a cy young.

its halladay, haren, or santana. proven guys who year in and year out produce. lincecum is in that discussion because of the cy young

felix is in the second tier with greinke, josh johnson, cliff lee, CC, beckett, jackson, etc.

Wrong. Felix is the best in the Bigs right now.

[dirk4mvp]

tlong seriously can u stop being a homer? geez. feliz is a great pitcher but hes never even been in the post season. at least lincecum has won a cy young.

its halladay, haren, or santana. proven guys who year in and year out produce. lincecum is in that discussion because of the cy young

felix is in the second tier with greinke, josh johnson, cliff lee, CC, beckett, jackson, etc.

So you make your own little class with Haren, Santana, and Halladay because they're proven and you put Beckett in the 2nd tier? Does not compute.

[Thunder Dan]

Check out Dan Haren's stats. He is the best pitcher in the majors right now. The only thing he is lacking is wins becuase his team sucks. He has a ERA under 2, has only had 1 non-quality start the whole year. Not only that, he has 137 strike outs and only 18 walks, and hitters are batting .187 vs him. That's incredible

[ducks]

thank you!

[KSeal]

Check out Dan Haren's stats. He is the best pitcher in the majors right now. The only thing he is lacking is wins becuase his team sucks. He has a ERA under 2, has only had 1 non-quality start the whole year. Not only that, he has 137 strike outs and only 18 walks, and hitters are batting .187 vs him. That's incredible

He's amazing but I'll go with Halladay who has to pitch in the best division in baseball. Going against the Sox, Yankees and Rays a ton and still putting up the numbers he does is amazing. Haren on the other hand gets to pitch to pitchers and goes against offenses like the Padres and Giants more often then offenses anywhere close to the AL East teams.

[ducks]

haren was sick last outing
aj hinch said
I wonder why he even pitched

[turiaf for president]

So you make your own little class with Haren, Santana, and Halladay because they're proven and you put Beckett in the 2nd tier? Does not compute.

only because the question is right now. beckett has been clutch in the playoffs but his numbers this year isnt quite the same.

haren santana and halladay has done it year in and year out, and the continue to do it consistently this year.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Haren's entire career his production takes a serious dip after the all star break, Lincecum > Haren until Haren proves he can have a consistently dominant season.

Looks like you might be right...



Haren was perhaps the most dominant pitcher in the NL in the first half of the season. But he has typically slumped in the second half, and he's off to a slow start since appearing in his third All-Star Game. Haren has a career post-All Star break ERA of 4.10 -- more than a run higher than his 3.08 ERA in the first half of the season. Haren has lasted only five innings in each of his first two starts since the break -- his two shortest outings.

I also really liked what he had to say about the Phillies..


"I don't know what was harder -- that [Phillies lineup] or the All-Star team lineup," Haren said.

[ducks]

last night he was not sick
the outing before he was sick

harens team last night in d did not help him out
he had to get 6 outs in the 5
and they called one of the runs earned which was horseshit


hopefully haren can get back with the program

but the phillies are one of the toughest teams in baseball
BETTER THEN THE DODGERS

[KSeal]

last night he was not sick
the outing before he was sick

harens team last night in d did not help him out
he had to get 6 outs in the 5
and they called one of the runs earned which was horseshit


hopefully haren can get back with the program

but the phillies are one of the toughest teams in baseball
BETTER THEN THE DODGERS

They're definitely better then the Dodgers. Especially right now, they've only lost like 3 games all month whereas LA has been horrible lately losing three in a row.

[holcs50]

Any arguments about this anymore? Its pretty clear timmeh is the best. Some are close like haren, carp, greinke, but to me there's a clear seperation between him and the rest.

[KSeal]

Tim pitches in the NL, where he gets to pitch to pitchers and in a pretty weak division with weak offenses like the Padres and Diamondbacks. Roy Halladay pitches to no pitchers and is in a division with the Red Sox, Yankees and Rays. Look at the stats, Roy is right there with Tim while pitching against much better offensive teams. Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball.

[ducks]

Tim pitches in the NL, where he gets to pitch to pitchers and in a pretty weak division with weak offenses like the Padres and Diamondbacks. Roy Halladay pitches to no pitchers and is in a division with the Red Sox, Yankees and Rays. Look at the stats, Roy is right there with Tim while pitching against much better offensive teams. Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball.

does that mean manny stats are against weak teams in their division also

can you prove to anyone that daren or tim could not pitch for the team halladay does and not do better

is it their fault they are in a division that does not have the big market of new york

[ducks]

Any arguments about this anymore? Its pretty clear timmeh is the best. Some are close like haren, carp, greinke, but to me there's a clear seperation between him and the rest.

season is not over 10 more starts for most of those pitchers
anything can still happen

[KSeal]

does that mean manny stats are against weak teams in their division also

can you prove to anyone that daren or tim could not pitch for the team halladay does and not do better

is it their fault they are in a division that does not have the big market of new york

This has nothing to do with the big market of New York, Roy Halladay pitches in Canada. Halladay has proven he can put up just as good of numbers going up against much much better offensive teams. He's better until Tim proves he can go over to the best league and best division and put up the same numbers he does in a weaker league and a weak division.

[ducks]

Tim proves he can go over to the best league and best division and put up the same numbers he does in a weaker league and a weak division.

so haren and tim need demand to go to Canada to face the best o team to prove to you he is just as good

[ducks]

This has nothing to do with the big market of New York, Roy Halladay pitches in Canada. Halladay has proven he can put up just as good of numbers going up against much much better offensive teams. He's better until Tim proves he can go over to the best league and best division and put up the same numbers he does in a weaker league and a weak division.

the big market teams ususally have a better o teams

[KSeal]

the big market teams ususally have a better o teams

Yeah I get what you're saying, bigger markets, more money, better teams. I didn't know what you were referring to at the time. You can think Tim and Dan are the best pitchers in the game, they're amazing pitchers but for me I'll go with the guys putting up similar numbers in a much tougher league and division, that's just me.