Gooden vs Bonner and Varejao [Archive]

nikegirl

07-19-2009, 01:47 AM

It pains me to see that Gooden will probably get a smaller contract than the super duper overpaid Varejao. I know that one can argue that Varejao is more valuable but to me, it just doesn't make sense how someone like Varejao can get such a contract while Gooden is still awaiting a contract that is probably just half of what this joke of a player is getting.

Also, hypothetically, how many of you will instantly drop Bonner and get Gooden if it was a possibility?

/rant

slick'81

07-19-2009, 01:48 AM

Id drop bonner for about damn near ne1 lmao

nikegirl

07-19-2009, 01:49 AM

Haha well, I agree with you.

SamoanTD

07-19-2009, 02:51 AM

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm im proally half in half on this one i like to see wat bonner can do now dat hes nt forced into a role where he has to do MORE than he wuz suppose to nw with mcdyess and blair comin in bonner is definately nt gna be playin starter minutes so now with him comin off the bench he might be a great asset nw instead of a big red loser lol bt rite nw i like bonner becuz he stretch the d and hes the only 3 point shooting big we got and hes nt to shabby i think he'll be good this season bt i like gooden hes a pretty good big bt we got bruisers nw wit mcdyess, blair, and even mahinmi comin in

nikegirl

07-19-2009, 04:32 AM

More unjust hate for Bonner? That's pretty surprising, I guess. Really, who would want a 6'10" player that can shoot the 3 as well as anyone in the league, rebound adequately and put the ball on the floor.

Hmm I do not hate him but I hate the minutes he gets just like Finley. And I do feel Gooden is a better player than him which is a fair assessment.

Darkwaters

07-19-2009, 06:08 AM

Bonner will be getting significantly fewer minutes this season with the additions of McDyess and Blair (and maybe fewer if Mahinmi or Haislip can challenge him). But considering his new reduced role I value what he brings. He was one of the best 3 pt shooters in the league last year and therefore has tremedous value. Hes just not a guy you can lean on with any regularity to carry a team.

That being said, if I could do a 1 for 1 swap and take Gooden for the same contract I'd do it in a heartbeat. Gooden is absolutely the better talent and as a reserve in the same role that Bonner will play next season he would be absolutely dynamic.

spursfan1000

07-19-2009, 07:36 AM

Id drop Boner for Gooden anyday any time.

45 bank shot

07-19-2009, 08:42 AM

I'd take neither of Gooden nor BOnner

Danny.Zhu

07-19-2009, 09:03 AM

Gooden>Varejao>Bonner

nikegirl

07-19-2009, 09:15 AM

Gooden>Varejao>Bonner
I agree with this.

buttsR4rebounding

07-19-2009, 09:47 AM

The incredible lack of understanding about putting a team together by some on this board amazes me. Bonner serves a valuable role on this team. This team NEEDS a 4 that can shoot the 3 ball. Neither Gooden or Varejao can do that. Haislip may take that role from Bonner, but that remains to be seen. Bonner played better defense than Gooden last year as well. No he wasn't Robert Horry, but he shot a higher percentage from 3 point range than Horry ever did in his career. He will be a valuable part of the Spurs "Run for the One for the Thumb" this year probably averaging about 8 to 12 minutes a game. His 3 million dollar salary is a very good value for that. The Spurs don't need a guy who would be unhappy getting few minutes which I would bet would be the case with both Gooden and Varejao.

nikegirl

07-19-2009, 09:55 AM

The incredible lack of understanding about putting a team together amazes me. Bonner serves a valuable role on this team. This team NEEDS a 4 that can shoot the 3 ball. Neither Gooden or Varejao can do that. Haislip may take that role from Bonner, but that remains to be seen. Bonner played better defense than Gooden last year as well. No he wasn't Robert Horry, but he shot a higher percentage from 3 point range than Horry ever did in his career. He will be a valuable part of the Spurs "Run for the One for the Thumb" this year probably averaging about 8 to 12 minutes a game. His 3 million dollar salary is a very good value for that. The Spurs don't need a guy who would be unhappy getting few minutes which I would bet would be the case with both Gooden and Varejao.

I dunno about needing another player who can shoot 3 pointers, I feel we have enough already. I'd rather have someone who can rebound and who can produce more in limited minutes which Gooden has done. But that's just me, and theres no need to insult people's understanding abilities just because they do not agree with you. It's not like what we're saying isn't valid.

buttsR4rebounding

07-19-2009, 10:05 AM

I dunno about needing another player who can shoot 3 pointers, I feel we have enough already. I'd rather have someone who can rebound and who can produce more in limited minutes which Gooden has done. But that's just me, and theres no need to insult people's understanding abilities just because they do not agree with you. It's not like what we're saying isn't valid.

The need for a 4 who can shoot the 3 pointer should not even be in dispute. The Spurs have had that type of player on the for their last 3 championships. They have designed many of their offensive schemes with that in mind. It is not me who says that, it the Spurs coaching staff who has moved in that direction. As far as being able to "produce more in limited minutes which Gooden has done" that may have been true before we drafted Blair, signed McDyess and had Ian coming back. I, too, applauded the pick up of Gooden last year because those comments were valid then, but we are talking about what to do now and the Spurs have addressed the needs that Gooden filled in other ways already.

MaNu4Tres

07-19-2009, 10:12 AM

Same reason why Bruce Bowen was more valuable than Ricky Davis the last 5 years.

nikegirl

07-19-2009, 10:12 AM

The need for a 4 who can shoot the 3 pointer should not even be in dispute. The Spurs have had that type of player on the for their last 3 championships. They have designed many of their offensive schemes with that in mind. It is not me who says that, it the Spurs coaching staff who has moved in that direction. As far as being able to "produce more in limited minutes which Gooden has done" that may have been true before we drafted Blair, signed McDyess and had Ian coming back. I, too, applauded the pick up of Gooden last year because those comments were valid then, but we are talking about what to do now and the Spurs have addressed the needs that Gooden filled in other ways already.

Horry was a different breed, even if Bonner can shoot 3s better than him, he's still far from the smarts and savvy play of Horry, to be honest, Horry is very hard to replace, Rasheed would've been a good option but he didnt choose us.
We've never had this many 3pt weapons in years that's why I do not think another 3pt shooter is what we need. We already have RJ, Mason, Manu, Finley and even Tony. We already have three good slashers with RJ, Manu and Tony to open up the inside for Timmy, so although I do think that having a 3pt shooting big man would help, it's not as needed now as before. I think there's a more pressing need for rebounding. Two rookies arent a guarantee (although I'm banking on Blair) so it's a good idea to get a veteran. But yeah this is all hypothetical.

nikegirl

07-19-2009, 10:16 AM

Oh and I think too much dependence on the three-ball has been the cause of our team's demise. I really want a big who can fish for fouls and create plays from the inside.

Death In June

07-19-2009, 10:34 AM

More unjust hate for Bonner? That's pretty surprising, I guess. Really, who would want a 6'10" player that can shoot the 3 as well as anyone in the league, rebound adequately and put the ball on the floor.More Bonner banana riding? I guess everyone forgot how useless he was once his three ball stopped falling, which was often the case.

buttsR4rebounding

07-19-2009, 10:37 AM

Horry was a different breed, even if Bonner can shoot 3s better than him, he's still far from the smarts and savvy play of Horry, to be honest, Horry is very hard to replace, Rasheed would've been a good option but he didnt choose us.
We've never had this many 3pt weapons in years that's why I do not think another 3pt shooter is what we need. We already have RJ, Mason, Manu, Finley and even Tony. We already have three good slashers with RJ, Manu and Tony to open up the inside for Timmy, so although I do think that having a 3pt shooting big man would help, it's not as needed now as before. I think there's a more pressing need for rebounding. Two rookies arent a guarantee (although I'm banking on Blair) so it's a good idea to get a veteran. But yeah this is all hypothetical.

While it is true that RJ, Manu, Finley and Parker can shoot the 3 as well as Hill I would say, none of them play the 4. One of the Spurs favorite sets is to have 4 guys around the perimeter w/ Duncan in the post. You need a 3 point shooting 4 (or 5). Neither Gooden or Varejoa could do that.

Oh and I think too much dependence on the three-ball has been our team's demise. I really want a big who can fish for fouls and create plays from the inside.

Whether we think that the Spurs shoot too many 3's or not isn't too relevant since they have become a 3 point shooting team--one of the best in the league as a matter of fact. As far as bigs who can finish around the rim and draw fouls--Duncan, McDyess, Blair and even Mahimni has shown the ability to get to the line in D-League and Summer League (so it may translate to the NBA). You combine that with the fact that we will have at least 3 others that are excellent at driving to the basket in Parker, Manu and RJ the Spurs will score lots of points in the paint. And by the way, I do enjoy the give-and-take even if I don't agree with you.

Darkwaters

07-19-2009, 10:37 AM

Oh and I think too much dependence on the three-ball has been the cause of our team's demise. I really want a big who can fish for fouls and create plays from the inside.

Players like Mahinmi, Haislip, and Blair seem to all be of that mold. Not to mention Duncan.

coyotes_geek

07-19-2009, 10:37 AM

More Bonner banana riding? I guess everyone forgot how useless he was once his three ball stopped falling, which was often the case.

Fortunately for the Spurs, they're now a deeper team and don't have to use Bonner when his shots aren't falling. But there are going to be plenty of times when his shots are falling, and in those periods he's going to be a very valuable piece to have on the floor.

buttsR4rebounding

07-19-2009, 10:39 AM

fortunately for the spurs, they're now a deeper team and don't have to use bonner when his shots aren't falling. But there are going to be plenty of times when his shots are falling, and in those periods he's going to be a very valuable piece to have on the floor.

+1

nikegirl

07-19-2009, 10:44 AM

Players like Mahinmi, Haislip, and Blair seem to all be of that mold. Not to mention Duncan.

Again, even if I'm high on Blair, the other two guys are unproven. Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining with everything the FO has done. All I'm saying is I would much rather have a proven rebounder and veteran over a 3 pt shooting PF especially one who cannot play defense to save his life. Remember Sheed's words? "Give the ball to whoever Bonner's guarding!" :lol

nikegirl

07-19-2009, 10:49 AM

Fortunately for the Spurs, they're now a deeper team and don't have to use Bonner when his shots aren't falling. But there are going to be plenty of times when his shots are falling, and in those periods he's going to be a very valuable piece to have on the floor.

I sure hope his shots falling in plenty of times is a sure thing. That would be such a luxury and a good thing to have, though not for the amount he's getting paid for.

Darkwaters

07-19-2009, 10:50 AM

Again, even if I'm high on Blair, the other two guys are unproven. Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining with everything the FO has done. All I'm saying is I would much rather have a proven rebounder and veteran over a 3 pt shooting PF especially one who cannot play defense to save his life. Remember Sheed's words? "Give the ball to whoever Bonner's guarding!" :lol

Enter McDyess.

The reality is that we have a limited amount of cash to spend on guys...and bigs are just expensive. But youngs usually allow you to get more bang for your buck BECAUSE they are unproven.

Bonner kind of plays the role of a safety valve though. Hes not a sexy pick or one that will strike fear in opponents, but hes proven that he can contribute. So if we strike out on all the youth (or 2 of the 3) then we still have Bonner that can play a significant role if needed.

Spurs_210

07-19-2009, 11:15 AM

More Bonner banana riding? I guess everyone forgot how useless he was once his three ball stopped falling, which was often the case.
Which was more often than not. In limited minutes Bonner can provide very useful. When his 3 is falling he can spread the floor thus opening the paint. Bonner is a good role player who was being asked to be a starter.

buttsR4rebounding

07-19-2009, 12:36 PM

He was 8th in the league in 3 pt % and if he had enough attempts would have been 6th in the league in FG%. I hated him as a starter, but as a role player making 60% of the average league salary he is a very good for the Spurs. Having said that I hope that Haislip can duplicate his scoring because I think his athleticism adds other things of value. If Bonner ends up as our 6th best big...:lobt2:.

Flux451

07-19-2009, 01:06 PM

keep bonner, let him get some threes this year, he knows the system, knows his role. he just isn't a starter, we shouldn't have to worry about that anymore

BackHome

07-19-2009, 02:43 PM

More Bonner banana riding? I guess everyone forgot how useless he was once his three ball stopped falling, which was often the case.

That will be the reason he only plays ten to fifteen minutes a game if he is hitting the shots he plays until he goes cold but if he is hot you keep him in. With Blair you don't need someone like Gooden you have a player who is cheaper and will be better for us then Gooden and then you have a guy who can come in and spread the floor when needed.......Pefect Match.......Blair/Bonner

SequSpur

07-19-2009, 03:53 PM

If Bonner plays one more minute as a spur, I will never go to a game again.

Taking it to the Hole

07-19-2009, 04:06 PM

If Bonner plays one more minute as a spur, I will never go to a game again.

Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me! :lol

dbestpro

07-19-2009, 05:01 PM

Several fans complain that Bonner gets no love. That is because the majority of Spur fans know the real season does not start until the playoffs. Bonner showed a little game during the regular season but disappeared during the real season. Watching Tim and Tony bust their ass while Bonner missed shot after shot is too much for the average Spur fan to accept. starting or coming from the bench has no affect on missing an open jumper. We know its about the playoffs and Bonner is too weak mentally to be a Spur during the playoffs.

VivaPopovich

07-19-2009, 05:37 PM

Also, hypothetically, how many of you will instantly drop Bonner and get Gooden if it was a possibility?

I. Wouldn't take that much.

coyotes_geek

07-19-2009, 05:41 PM

dbestpro

07-19-2009, 06:04 PM

The Spurs playoff run consisted all of 5 games. Anyone writing off guys like Bonner and Mason because they didn't perform over a 5 game stretch where the Spurs were horribly outmanned is a moron.

You must be new to playoff basketball and the way the Spurs do things. I suspect you must have been a Clipper or Memphis fan and are now jumping on the wagon.

FYI If you do not show up for the first series of basketball their is no second series. As Spur fans we have no time to waste on mental midgets like Bonner and yourself who do not show up when it counts. If you would like to know more about the Spurs history and how playoff basketball is formatted I suggest you spend a few hours in nba.com. There still may be hope for you.
Other wise I suggest you follow Bonner out the door.

Spurs16212

07-19-2009, 07:26 PM

Bonner and Gooden are two different types of post players and bring different tangibles to the game.

Right now as it stands, we have McDyess, Duncan, Blair, and Mahimni whom are bangers inside which does not require the services of Gooden.

Now with that said, there are moments in the game that Bonner could be utilized to spread the defense out with his outside shooting which is why the Spurs may keep him around.

In my opinion, Gooden brings more to the table than Bonner and I agree that Varejo's new contract is bloated but that is the franchise's way of appreciating his hard work. A prime example of this is when the Spurs signed Malik Rose to that $42 million dollar contract years back. Malik was definitely overpaid but the Spurs rewarded him but again, there are alot of players overpaid at this point.

DJB

07-19-2009, 08:11 PM

coyotes_geek

07-19-2009, 09:12 PM

You must be new to playoff basketball and the way the Spurs do things. I suspect you must have been a Clipper or Memphis fan and are now jumping on the wagon.

FYI If you do not show up for the first series of basketball their is no second series. As Spur fans we have no time to waste on mental midgets like Bonner and yourself who do not show up when it counts. If you would like to know more about the Spurs history and how playoff basketball is formatted I suggest you spend a few hours in nba.com. There still may be hope for you.
Other wise I suggest you follow Bonner out the door.

:rollin

Quit being a dumbass. How a player performs in one five game playoff series is hardly a guarantee of how that player will perform in every other playoff series he'll ever play in. Take a look at Hedo Turkoglu. Take a look at Jarren Jackson. Hell, you can even go look at Robert Horry. There's plenty of examples of guys having vastly different playoff experiences in different seasons and different situations. A few hours at nba.com would help you realize that.

You want to show Bonner the door? Okay smart guy. Tell me who you're going to replace him with?

dbestpro

07-19-2009, 10:31 PM

:rollin

Quit being a dumbass. How a player performs in one five game playoff series is hardly a guarantee of how that player will perform in every other playoff series he'll ever play in. Take a look at Hedo Turkoglu. Take a look at Jarren Jackson. Hell, you can even go look at Robert Horry. There's plenty of examples of guys having vastly different playoff experiences in different seasons and different situations. A few hours at nba.com would help you realize that.

You want to show Bonner the door? Okay smart guy. Tell me who you're going to replace him with?

I would venture to say that even a basketball novice such as yourself could miss as many shots as Bonner did in the playoffs. So ,lets replace him with a geeky coyote. If you are not available then how about the other 5 bigs on the team or as this thread first suggested who would you rather have? Gooden or Bonner.

coyotes_geek

07-19-2009, 10:45 PM

Since we can't get Gooden for the money we have left it doesn't matter who you or I or anyone else would rather have. Bonner is here, Gooden is not. If the Spurs can trade Bonner for a better player, they will. If the Spurs have someone on the roster who performs better than Bonner then they'll play him. But they're not going to run Bonner out of town just because he had a bad playoff series. That would be stupid.