Have the elite teams ever been this far ahead of the competition?

[holcs50]

There have been teams like the bulls, lakers, celts in the past that were just head and shoulders better than other teams but there is clearly 6 teams that are just a lot better than all the other teams. Every one of them has improved themselves dramatically in the off-season while other teams have gotten worse or stayed the same.

-Cleveland upgraded with snaq, and moon
-magic upgraded with vc over turk and keeping gortat, bass, and healthy jameer coming back (some say they might have gotten worse-i don't see it)
-Boston got sheed and daniels, kg coming back
-Fakers got artest (if they lose odom they are still very good, but don't see it as a successful off-season, with odom back though very good move imo)
-Dallas added marion
-Spurs got jefferson, manu coming back, dice, blair

All these teams imo are just way above the rest of the league-some could say portland and Denver are right there but I think with the moves other teams made they have left them in the dust

[Nahtanoj]

Yes to Regular Season records - no to Playoffs.

LA, Denver or San Antonio are still coming out of the West.

Boston or "Small Pond" Orlando coming out of the East.

[holcs50]

Yes to Regular Season records - no to Playoffs.

LA, Denver or San Antonio are still coming out of the West.

Boston or "Small Pond" Orlando coming out of the East.

Idstay u gotta throw in the cavs in the east and mavs in west. Will be interesting because all the teams changed and the one that wins will be the team that can click the best with its new parts. Hard to predict how things will go down

[Ghazi]

Dallas as it is, regrettably, is probably in the same class of teams as Denver/Portland... good teams, but not really contenders... probably a notch below the other 5 teams. Our guys in blue can change that though with 1 or 2 more solid additions, preferably a superior center and a solid wing player.

Not sure what to make of the Marion upgrade though... it could be marginal or it could change the entire dynamic of the team, adding a 2 way player, improving the defense, and moving Howard to the 2 guard by virtue of the fact that Wright was horrible, even if Howard isn't really a 2 guard, may be a huge upgrade... plus J-Ho may be playing for contract etc.

[Ghazi]

Gap between the top teams and the rest of the league starting to some extent last year IMO... with two teams winning 65+ and 4 teams winning 60 (rare that that occurs)... I guess it happens with so many teams in cost cutting mode and a select few contenders exploiting it. Although there is parity to some extent, especially 5-14 in the East being separated by 13 games or so.

[redzero]

All the Mavericks did was add an aging loser past his prime.

[Ghazi]

All the Hornets did was stand pat on a team that lost by 60 on its home court :lol

[redzero]

All the Hornets did was stand pat on a team that lost by 60 on its home court :lol

And? The Hornets were injured, faggot. Enjoy your aging 7-foot shooting guard.

[holcs50]

-spurs,lakers,denver,portland, and dallas are all better than the hornets-no question. i can't believe they just have stood by and done jack shit while a lot of teams have put cash flow out there to get better. Sorry paul can't do it all himself-west is damn good too but that's about all that team has. Old peja sucks, posey really isn't a game changer for them, they're just not that good.

[redzero]

-spurs,lakers,denver,portland, and dallas are all better than the hornets-no question. i can't believe they just have stood by and done jack shit while a lot of teams have put cash flow out there to get better. Sorry paul can't do it all himself-west is damn good too but that's about all that team has. Old peja sucks, posey really isn't a game changer for them, they're just not that good.

If either of the Hornets' draft picks pan out, they will be right back where they were two seasons ago. If you actually watched the Hornets this year, you would have realized that many players were injured throughout the season, and that West and Paul were playing 40+ minutes per game trying to win against bad opponents. If the bench players step up, then the starters won't have to play 40 minutes a game.

[spursfan1000]

Cleveland also added Anthony Parker...

[holcs50]

red, man i know your fightin for your team, but dude it's just painfully obvious the lakes, spurs, and mavs are above the hornets. Hornets I guess if fully healthy could be in the trailblazers denver level. I'd still put them below those two teams. Now if they make a trade or get a decent FA that's left they might come into play but as of right now no way. In fact I do think they'll make the playoffs but I wouldn't be suprised if say a clippers team moved up, suns if healthy moved up, and a few other teams could push them out. I don't think that will happen but they just aren't deep....at all

[redzero]

red, man i know your fightin for your team, but dude it's just painfully obvious the lakes, spurs, and mavs are above the hornets. Hornets I guess if fully healthy could be in the trailblazers denver level. I'd still put them below those two teams. Now if they make a trade or get a decent FA that's left they might come into play but as of right now no way. In fact I do think they'll make the playoffs but I wouldn't be suprised if say a clippers team moved up, suns if healthy moved up, and a few other teams could push them out. I don't think that will happen but they just aren't deep....at all

The Lakers and the Spurs are better, but the Mavericks didn't get better at all. Shawn Marion is washed up, and the Mavericks are only getting older.

[holcs50]

this is true but remember they do have a pretty solid team b4 marion...dirk, howard, kidd(i know he's old but he's still a difference maker...sometimes, ha), and people forget terry-the guy is a legit, damn good player. Now marion which will help with athleticism, boards. IDK i mean hornets as currently constructed can still play some good games, i just think they need to definitely make a trade or get a quality FA. Peja is so overrated its not even funny...he is nothing like he was on the kings 5/6 years ago. I think you'll admit to that-he dissappears completely some games, can't have that as your 3rd scoring option.

[redzero]

this is true but remember they do have a pretty solid team b4 marion...dirk, howard, kidd(i know he's old but he's still a difference maker...sometimes, ha), and people forget terry-the guy is a legit, damn good player. Now marion which will help with athleticism, boards. IDK i mean hornets as currently constructed can still play some good games, i just think they need to definitely make a trade or get a quality FA. Peja is so overrated its not even funny...he is nothing like he was on the kings 5/6 years ago. I think you'll admit to that-he dissappears completely some games, can't have that as your 3rd scoring option.

Peja is overpaid not overrated. People forget that he missed a quarter of the season and that Chandler missed half of the season. The Hornets got 49 wins even with all those injuries. At worst, they would get 49 wins again this upcoming season.

I'm not claiming that they are in the title hunt; I'm just saying that they got better during the offseason.

[holcs50]

Peja is overpaid not overrated. People forget that he missed a quarter of the season and that Chandler missed half of the season. The Hornets got 49 wins even with all those injuries. At worst, they would get 49 wins again this upcoming season.

I'm not claiming that they are in the title hunt; I'm just saying that they got better during the offseason.

how i mean -healthier yes-just like yhe spurs and celts being healthy will help a lot but as far as additions what have they done that would make a difference? i just dont see it

[redzero]

how i mean -healthier yes-just like yhe spurs and celts being healthy will help a lot but as far as additions what have they done that would make a difference? i just dont see it

Darren Collison and Marcus Thorton. If they actually provide help off the bench, the Hornets will automatically become better.

[holcs50]

Yes collison i could see giving you guys some depth-he will be good-i watched him a lot and he's a smart player and maybe thornton...im just saying those aren't game changing moves. Look lakes added an all star and arguably one of the best defender in artest-him and kobe together at wings is just nasty-dallas added marion who some say isn't that good but he gives them quite a bit of athleticism and d/board help, spurs added jefferson, an athletic tall wing who can get the team fired up with dunks and has the ability to play good d, and hit treys. Its like bruce bowen though a LOT better (love bruce but jeff is just way better overall-bruce d though-wow). He gives the spurs at least 15 ppg and boards! And he's in his prime, and he went to UofA, ha. I digress, these are all players that make big differences. If the hornets can add a really good wing 2 or 3 then I will bump them up but now no way. just my opinion tho

[JamStone]

If it were 2 or 3 teams ahead of every other team in the league, I can see how you'd ask this. But you're talking about 20% of the league. That's like most seasons. There are a handful of teams that have a legitimate chance to win it all, a bunch of mediocre teams, and then the bottom dwellers. There's definitely a gap, but I think the distance between those elite teams to the rest of the league is based much more on perception. Many of the major additions these elite teams are adding are old and past their primes. Shaq, Rasheed, Marion, Dice, even Vince. And, then you have to wait to find out if they actually do make those teams better in terms of chemistry and gelling. I'd say of those 6 teams, it's still about the Lakers and the Celtics and they're clearly better than the other 4, with San Antonio not as far behind as the other 3. I wouldn't lump Cleveland, Orlando, or Dallas up with Boston and LA. Especially with Orlando and Dallas, I don't think there's a huge gap between them and teams like Denver, Portland, even Atlanta.

On paper, there are probably 2-3 teams to beat if everyone stays healthy. After that, another handful of teams that are pretty good and could challenge if everything works out perfectly. Then the rest of the league. I don't think it's 6 elite teams and everyone else.

[sribb43]

And? The Hornets were injured, faggot. Enjoy your aging 7-foot shooting guard.

and the mavs played with a Josh Howard who had to jacked up ankles and an f'ed up wrist.....injuries are apart of it. At least the Spurs tried to beat the Mavs. It shows how much character, heart and fight your team and coach have. A D-III school wouldnt have gotten ran on their home floor by the Nuggets by 60 like the Hornets did in a crcuial playoff game:lol

[Shank]

Why do the Spurs get to add Blair onto their list but other teams don't have their rookies mentioned?

[sribb43]

Why do the Spurs get to add Blair onto their list but other teams don't have their rookies mentioned?

because Pop drafted him

[Brazil]

Dallas as it is, regrettably, is probably in the same class of teams as Denver/Portland... good teams, but not really contenders... probably a notch below the other 5 teams. Our guys in blue can change that though with 1 or 2 more solid additions, preferably a superior center and a solid wing player.

Not sure what to make of the Marion upgrade though... it could be marginal or it could change the entire dynamic of the team, adding a 2 way player, improving the defense, and moving Howard to the 2 guard by virtue of the fact that Wright was horrible, even if Howard isn't really a 2 guard, may be a huge upgrade... plus J-Ho may be playing for contract etc.

For once I disagree with a mav fan in a good way for the mavs. IMO Marion is a really good addition, I see the mavs better than Denver / Portland, I think Gortat would have put Dallas in the bottom of the elite teams but still on the elite teams.

[Extra Stout]

I think it has been this way for years in the NBA. You almost never have a season where 10 teams have a legitimate shot at a title.

[Cry Havoc]

If it were 2 or 3 teams ahead of every other team in the league, I can see how you'd ask this. But you're talking about 20% of the league. That's like most seasons. There are a handful of teams that have a legitimate chance to win it all, a bunch of mediocre teams, and then the bottom dwellers. There's definitely a gap, but I think the distance between those elite teams to the rest of the league is based much more on perception. Many of the major additions these elite teams are adding are old and past their primes. Shaq, Rasheed, Marion, Dice, even Vince. And, then you have to wait to find out if they actually do make those teams better in terms of chemistry and gelling. I'd say of those 6 teams, it's still about the Lakers and the Celtics and they're clearly better than the other 4, with San Antonio not as far behind as the other 3. I wouldn't lump Cleveland, Orlando, or Dallas up with Boston and LA. Especially with Orlando and Dallas, I don't think there's a huge gap between them and teams like Denver, Portland, even Atlanta.

On paper, there are probably 2-3 teams to beat if everyone stays healthy. After that, another handful of teams that are pretty good and could challenge if everything works out perfectly. Then the rest of the league. I don't think it's 6 elite teams and everyone else.

Do you still say this if the Lakers lose Odom?

[JamStone]

Lakers would still be up there as one of the top 3-4 teams in the league without Odom. They would no longer "clearly" be one of the top 2 teams, only arguably so. Without Odom back with the Lakers, I think Boston alone would be the clear favorites if all teams stay healthy. Then it's the Lakers and Spurs. Then the next group of Cleveland, Orlando, maybe Denver. But teams like Dallas, Portland not far behind that second group.

Losing Odom will hurt the Lakers, but the difference would be clear favorites to one of the favorites.

[SonOfAGun]

6 is actually a lot to be in contention.

During the Spurs run there was like 2 or 3.

[rjv]

back in the 80's this was the case as it was always the lakers and celtics or at least that is what i remember always seeing when i was growing up.

[lil_penny]

:lol

The first round Blazers stood pat as well. They lost their back-up power foward as well. Denver lost their starting two guard. Dont expect either of those teams to do well this year.

Channing frye was our back ups back up, outlaw was the back up pf most of last year havnt lost him yet.

[tlongII]

Channing frye was our back ups back up, outlaw was the back up pf most of last year havnt lost him yet.

Not to mention that Channing Frye sucks ass. Anybody that thinks the Blazers aren't an elite team this year is in for a rude awakening. The Lakers are the only team in the West that can compete with us now.

[Cry Havoc]

Not to mention that Channing Frye sucks ass. Anybody that thinks the Blazers aren't an elite team this year is in for a rude awakening. The Lakers are the only team in the West that can compete with us now.

:lmao

You sound like a Cubs fan.

/is a Cubs fan.

[LnGrrrR]

back in the 80's this was the case as it was always the lakers and celtics or at least that is what i remember always seeing when i was growing up.

Rockets and Pistons were good too, as were the Sixers IIRC.

[Morg1411]

Not to mention that Channing Frye sucks ass. Anybody that thinks the Blazers aren't an elite team this year is in for a rude awakening. The Lakers are the only team in the West that can compete with us now.

You're a riot.

[ElNono]

Not to mention that Channing Frye sucks ass. Anybody that thinks the Blazers aren't an elite team this year is in for a rude awakening. The Lakers are the only team in the West that can compete with us now.

LOL Blazers...
LOL Tshclong...

[kingmalaki]

What we see now has nothing on the superteams of the 80's....when 3 squads had at least 3 HOF players on it (LA, Boston, Philly)....and even Detroit had two and hella depth. Now those teams were stacked compared to the rest of the league.

[pauls931]

6 seems liek a lot of teams competing. man growing up it was always celtics lakers, then pistons bulls. I remember many years when it was clear it was coming down to 2 teams except a couple bulls years where no one was remotely close.

[j-money24]

I think the Clippers are going to be better than the Hornets:lol

[Darthkiller]

how the fuck is jefferson past his prime.

[Ghazi]

how the fuck is jefferson past his prime.

He isn't. he just tricks you into thinking he is since he was never that good to begin w/ :lol


lol homosexual w/ no eyebrows

[redzero]

At least Jefferson isn't a washed up choker who dates criminals.

[Ghazi]

121-63

[BUMP]

It seems like lately there have always been about 3 or 4 team that you'd expect to win it all

Early 2000's
-Lakers
-Kings
-Spurs

Middle 2000's
-Suns
-Spurs
-Mavs
-Pistons

Later 2000's
-Boston
-LA
-Orlando
-Cleveland

This year it has grown because of the economy

-Spurs
-Lakers
-Cleveland
-Boston
-Orlando
-Denver

[jag]

later 2000's
-boston
-la
-orlando
-cleveland



2007?

[spursncowboys]

There have been teams like the bulls, lakers, celts in the past that were just head and shoulders better than other teams but there is clearly 6 teams that are just a lot better than all the other teams. Every one of them has improved themselves dramatically in the off-season while other teams have gotten worse or stayed the same.

-Cleveland upgraded with snaq, and moon
-magic upgraded with vc over turk and keeping gortat, bass, and healthy jameer coming back (some say they might have gotten worse-i don't see it)
-Boston got sheed and daniels, kg coming back
-Fakers got artest (if they lose odom they are still very good, but don't see it as a successful off-season, with odom back though very good move imo)
-Dallas added marion
-Spurs got jefferson, manu coming back, dice, blair

All these teams imo are just way above the rest of the league-some could say portland and Denver are right there but I think with the moves other teams made they have left them in the dust

Dallas lost Wright- so their offseason has them worse. Plus they aren't really an elite team anyway.

[spursncowboys]

Spurs added two losers past their primes, and a guy with no knee caps. Im just saying...
Fisher is another year older and his backup is Farmar. Im just saying.

[peskypesky]

how the fuck is jefferson past his prime.

he's not.

[SamoanTD]

This is true, but unlike Jefferson and Dyse, Fish is far from a loser. RJ is not no better than Marion, and Dirk is going to make Dyse and the guy with no knee caps want to retire.

jefferson is instant offense my friend and he is ok on defense unlike fisher who is ok at shooting that 3 and just damn horrible at defence and dyse mite be a old man bt he hustles everygame even when he knws hes on the losing side nw thats heart to me dyes hasnt lost a step did u see him in this years playoffs even though detroit got the boot he still played his ass off and dnt even get me started with blair he is gna be a flat out stud book it

[DrHouse]

We do this EVERY offseason and the reality is half of the offseason additions don't pan out the way we thought they would.

[Ghazi]

Dallas lost Wright- so their offseason has them worse. Plus they aren't really an elite team anyway.

:lol

[SouthTexasRancher]

Dallas as it is, regrettably, is probably in the same class of teams as Denver/Portland... good teams, but not really contenders... probably a notch below the other 5 teams. Our guys in blue can change that though with 1 or 2 more solid additions, preferably a superior center and a solid wing player.

Not sure what to make of the Marion upgrade though... it could be marginal or it could change the entire dynamic of the team, adding a 2 way player, improving the defense, and moving Howard to the 2 guard by virtue of the fact that Wright was horrible, even if Howard isn't really a 2 guard, may be a huge upgrade... plus J-Ho may be playing for contract etc.


Damn, Ghazi, that was a really nice and honest post. I congratulate you! As much as I hate to admit it, the Mavs will be in the thick of it come playoff time. I still think they are one 'real' center away from going all the way.

[BUMP]

Wasn't Roger Mason anointed the next Robert Horry before the playoffs even started?

[ElNono]

Wasn't Roger Mason anointed the next Robert Horry before the playoffs even started?

No, that was Matt Bonner...

[Rogue]

Dallas lost Wright- so their offseason has them worse. Plus they aren't really an elite team anyway.
Mavs lost Dickbreath as well, so that trade wasn't bad at all, even though Donnie's work is not pretty satisfying and he still has pretty much work to do this off-season.

[NugzFan]

:lol

The first round Blazers stood pat as well. They lost their back-up power foward as well. Denver lost their starting two guard. Dont expect either of those teams to do well this year.

and replaced him with someone just as good (and cheaper).

[Killakobe81]

jefferson is instant offense my friend and he is ok on defense unlike fisher who is ok at shooting that 3 and just damn horrible at defence and dyse mite be a old man bt he hustles everygame even when he knws hes on the losing side nw thats heart to me dyes hasnt lost a step did u see him in this years playoffs even though detroit got the boot he still played his ass off and dnt even get me started with blair he is gna be a flat out stud book it


I would think of ALL NBA teams the Sprs and their fans would repect his gangsta ...You dont have to like him but you dams sure as hell better respect and fear hist "clutch".
Let's take a trip down memory lane:
2001 unleashes a barrage of 3's shooting almost 75% from 3point land
2004 .4 'nuff said
2008 The great defense on Barry's shot in game 4 ...

Dfish is the spurs kryptonite more time than not (yall did make him cry in 2003)

[wijayas]

The Lakers and the Spurs are better, but the Mavericks didn't get better at all. Shawn Marion is washed up, and the Mavericks are only getting older.

With Kidd distributing the ball, Shawn Marion's career may have zoomed up again a la his time with Nash in Phoenix. Dallas matches up well with the Spurs and remains a dangerous opponent.

[Killakobe81]

theer is a gap not the Lakers/Celst mid 80's gap or the Bulls late 90's gap ...but if you look at what the Cavs, magic Celts Spurs to close the gap on the defending champs I would say that is pretty impressive Outside of that group I would say the Mavs, Nuggs Blazers are the next tier with
Mavs & nuggs a bit ahead due to experience ...
I will say it again I LOVE the Blazers talent ..but it's not agreat mix they have too many of the same type of players and could use another leader on that team besides roy and another banger ..I thought milsp woulda been a "great fit" Kidd or Hinrich as well ..i deal some of that talent and i either get a superstar or vet leader ...If oden can do a Dwight howard impersonation they could make some noise but as prently constructed ...I see regular season noise lack of post-season poise ...2nd round would be impressive

[picc84]

Shawn Marion is a good pickup for Dallas simply because of Jason Kidd. He excels when playing with great pass-first point guards. If Dallas had an equally good shoot-first point guard it wouldnt be as solid a signing.

Only problem is that from what i've seen of Mavs games, Kidd doesn't have the ball in his hands and run the offense as much as he and Nash did in Phoenix. So thats going to reduce the PG/Marion effectiveness somewhat. Still, he'll improve their rebounding and team defense and present another athletic option on fast breaks.

Dont see them in the first tier of teams with SA/LA/Boston/Cleveland/Orlando though. More second tier with Portland and Denver.

[Red Hawk #21]

All the Hornets did was stand pat on a team that lost by 60 on its home court :lol

:lmao