Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

[50 cent]

It fucking better after A.J.'s was retired.

[FkLA]

AJ was our general and hit the title-clinching shot in our first run, that title team got things rolling...he deserves to have his retired.

As for Bowen, I say no. Give him a tribute but having his jersey retired is too much for a player that although contributed was nothing out of this world.

[PeterBurns]

Yep...No question about it.
With all the $ the Front office is spending, you think they would miss a chance to pack the house again for that ceremony. I kid, I kid

Vital to all 3 rings.

We are witnessing history this last decade.
Duncan, Parker, Manu, Robinson, Avery, Bruce, Sean. All should be.

[SonOfAGun]

It should take A.J.'s jersey spot imfo.

[jay014]

No.

[FkLA]

Bruce getting his jersey retired would honestly be ridiculous, it would completely cheapen the retiring of jerseys. Malik was vital in what 3? of our title teams as well, was the embodiment of a Spur, was just as big a part of the community as Bruce, loved the city just as much, etc.

Honor both of these guys with a tribute but thats it, cant believe some of u guys are actually in favor of retiring his jersey.

[Nathan Explosion]

AJ was our general and hit the title-clinching shot in our first run, that title team got things rolling...he deserves to have his retired.

As for Bowen, I say no. Give him a tribute but having his jersey retired is too much for a player that although contributed was nothing out of this world.

You mean other than playing the best perimeter defense in the NBA for how many seasons now? If you need a reminder about how great Bowen was defensively, just take a look at the 2007 Finals again. Bowen was amazing guarding Lebron.

Bowen deserves to have his jersey retired because his defense was a HUGE reason the Spurs won 3 titles. Not to mention how many timely shots he hit in the playoffs.

[FkLA]

You mean other than playing the best perimeter defense in the NBA for how many seasons now? If you need a reminder about how great Bowen was defensively, just take a look at the 2007 Finals again. Bowen was amazing guarding Lebron.

Bowen deserves to have his jersey retired because his defense was a HUGE reason the Spurs won 3 titles. Not to mention how many timely shots he hit in the playoffs.

I know what he did, it was vital yes...just as Malik's play off the bench was vital in our other title yrs. But he was average on the offensive end, sometimes even a liability. And as much as I love Bruce, he wasnt a stopper cause guys like Kobe always got their points...he made them work hard yes and probably played them better than anyone else. But those guys got their points regardless.

Should Malik have his jersey retired?

[EricB]

Bruce getting his jersey retired would honestly be ridiculous, it would completely cheapen the retiring of jerseys. Malik was vital in what 3? of our title teams as well, was the embodiment of a Spur, was just as big a part of the community as Bruce, loved the city just as much, etc.

Honor both of these guys with a tribute but thats it, cant believe some of u guys are actually in favor of retiring his jersey.

Well Malik only played on 2 so I don't know how he would be vital to three...


Typical Bruce Bowen hater who never saw what he brought to the team or what he did FOR the team.

Recockulas indeed.

[Kori Ellis]

Without question. I don't even think it will really be debated within the organization.

[Texas_Ranger]

yes!!

[spurspf]

Bruce getting his jersey retired would honestly be ridiculous, it would completely cheapen the retiring of jerseys. Malik was vital in what 3? of our title teams as well, was the embodiment of a Spur, was just as big a part of the community as Bruce, loved the city just as much, etc.

Honor both of these guys with a tribute but thats it, cant believe some of u guys are actually in favor of retiring his jersey.


Seriously, really? It will be up there, as it should. I can't believe people who even question this.

[DMX7]

You mean other than playing the best perimeter defense in the NBA for how many seasons now? If you need a reminder about how great Bowen was defensively, just take a look at the 2007 Finals again. Bowen was amazing guarding Lebron.

Bowen deserves to have his jersey retired because his defense was a HUGE reason the Spurs won 3 titles. Not to mention how many timely shots he hit in the playoffs.

Yeah, and Rodman and Steve Kerr should have their jersey hanging from the roof of the United Center.

[spurzzzz]

Without a doubt. Bowen's defense is what made spurs basketball for the past 8 years.

[FkLA]

Well Malik only played on 2 so I don't know how he would be vital to three...


Typical Bruce Bowen hater who never saw what he brought to the team or what he did FOR the team.

Recockulas indeed.

I dont hate Bruce homie. I appreciate what he did, but retiring the jersey of a one-dimensional player is ridiculous...he made the stars work harder for their points than anybody else did but at the end of the day the stars still got their points.


Yeah, and Rodman and Steve Kerr should have their jersey hanging from the roof of the United Center.

Exactly. Bruce was a role player, a good one but a role player nontheless.

[Spurs Brazil]

Bruce is a lock.

[JWest596]

It's a lock and IMHO, a waste of bandwidth to even think and discuss differently.

[galvatron3000]

AJ was our general and hit the title-clinching shot in our first run, that title team got things rolling...he deserves to have his retired.

As for Bowen, I say no. Give him a tribute but having his jersey retired is too much for a player that although contributed was nothing out of this world.

If AJ's game winner is a good enough reason alone to retire a jersey in SA then surely with the 3 prior Championships you have to give Bowen credit for holding down the defense on the perimeter and his defense against Kobe and Billups secured a few championship especially when Paker almost single handedly blew the 2005 in game 7's final minutes

[Nathan Explosion]

Bowen played a much bigger role for the franchise than Avery did. Bowen was a major cog on 3 title teams, while Avery played on 1 team. To claim that Avery belongs because of one shot while Bowen doesn't is just ridiculous.

Bowen's perimeter defense, along with Duncan's interior defense, helped fuel one of the best defensive teams year after year.

Bowen chased around players like Kobe, Lebron, Nash, Billups, Ray Allen, Dirk and many others.

Think about how different each player's style is and how Bowen adapted to each situation and excelled.

For people to ignore that is foolish.

[FkLA]

Without a doubt. Bowen's defense is what made spurs basketball for the past 8 years.

Bowen wasnt even the best defender on his team the past 8 yrs.

[MarHill]

Yes and it will be!!!

[FkLA]

If AJ's game winner is a good enough reason alone to retire a jersey in SA then surely with the 3 prior Championships you have to give Bowen credit for holding down the defense on the perimeter and his defense against Kobe and Billups secured a few championship especially when Paker almost single handedly blew the 2005 in game 7's final minutes

I only agree with AJs jersey retirement for the simple fact that it was the first title and it got the ball rolling...without that first title who knows how things play out. If AJ wouldve done what he did in any other title year I wouldnt be in favor of his jersey retirement because there's no disputing that he was an average player.

Bowen was great for us, but at the end of the day still a one-dimensional role player. Malike played a vital role in some of our other runs as well, that doesnt mean he should get his jersey retired.

I honeslty hope the Spurs dont decide to retire Bowen's jersey. It would completely cheapen the retirement of jerseys.

[gospursgojas]

not even a question...

YES

He had as much to do with winning 3 'ships as Sean and AJ did in winning 1.

Anyone who says he didn't contribute anything extraordinary needs to stop watching Lebron highlight dunks and pay attention to other aspects of the game.

[afireinside20]

Most definetely, sure he wasn't great offensively but his defense was superb. He relished at the chances of gurading Kobe,Allen and LeBron. He's was very tenacious on D, and who can forget his timely 3 point shooting in the playoffs. He was one of the few guys we had that could help out the Big 3 and bring it every game. Especially his 3point shooting in the classic playoff series against the Lakers in 2003, when I believe he hit like 7 treys in one game. I think he deserves to have his jersey up there.

[FkLA]

So should the Bulls retire Rodman's jersey? The Lakers Fisher's or Fox's?

Come on man, I love Bruce too...but open your damn eyes he was a one-dimensional role player. Great organizations dont just retire the jerseys of everyone that plays a role in a title. This is completely stupid and people are being blinded by the love they have for Bruce.

[Nathan Explosion]

To say that Malik played a bigger role than Bowen is ludicrous. Malik was a spark player while Bowen was a starter that wreaked havoc on the defensive end.

However, I will say that Malik did contribute to 3 title teams. He won two with the Spurs and helped bring Nazr over in 2005. ;)

[Nathan Explosion]

So should the Bulls retire Rodman's jersey? The Lakers Fisher's or Fox's?

Come on man, I love Bruce too...but open your damn eyes he was a one-dimensional role player. Great organizations dont just retire the jerseys of everyone that plays a role in a title. This is completely stupid and people are being blinded by the love they have for Bruce.

If anyone is being blinded, it is you. You claim that Bruce "only" played defense, ignoring the fact that he was arguably the best defender in the league during the 3 titles run. He was just any defender, he was the premier defender in the league.

The Spurs had Duncan and Bowen anchoring the defense, and while Duncan is a great, defender, this year we saw what happens when you don't have a perimeter defender to cause trouble for opposing teams best players.

[spursncowboys]

Yes
We wouldn't have gotten any of the last three rings without him locking down the best opposing player night in and night out!!

[Das Texan]

No Bowen = at least one less title.

[FkLA]

To say that Malik played a bigger role than Bowen is ludicrous. Malik was a spark player while Bowen was a starter that wreaked havoc on the defensive end.

However, I will say that Malik did contribute to 3 title teams. He won two with the Spurs and helped bring Nazr over in 2005. ;)

Not a bigger role, but an equal role or at the very least very close to an equal role...people praise Bowen for guarding players as small and quick as Nash than the next series guarding players as big and explosive as Lebron. Are u guys forgetting some of the players Malik D'd up? The dude would stand his ground against fucken Shaq, who had like 5 inches and who knows how many pounds on him. Than go out and guard guys like Dirk out on the perimeter the next series. He was also a much more polished offensive player than Bowen ever was, u bring up his 7 treys against LA in 2003 and I remind u of Malik's 20+ points off the bench against the Nets that same year. I think people forget how important Malik was as well.

Malik deserves a huge tribute, as does Bruce but thats it. Having the Spurs retire Bruce's jersey would be the equivalent of the Lakers retiring Fisher's or Rick Fox's...its laughable.


If anyone is being blinded, it is you. You claim that Bruce "only" played defense, ignoring the fact that he was arguably the best defender in the league during the 3 titles run. He was just any defender, he was the premier defender in the league.

The Spurs had Duncan and Bowen anchoring the defense, and while Duncan is a great, defender, this year we saw what happens when you don't have a perimeter defender to cause trouble for opposing teams best players.

Are the Bulls's retiring Rodman's jersey?

[I. Hustle]

http://www.hiphoparchive.org/files/images/mos%20def.jpg

[El Jefe]

I think it should possibly be retired for the 2005 run by itself. Made AI put up lousy numbers in round one, made Ray Allen cry in round 2, made Shawn Marion flat DISAPPEAR in the WCF, and then did a very credible job on Rip Hamilton before being switched onto Billups (who was murdering the Spurs up to that point) which was probably the key adjustment to winning the Finals.

If they handed out MVP's for the entire playoff run and not just the Finals, he might have gotten my vote that year. Throw in the defense he's played night in and night out, the big shots he's hit in the playoffs, and his dedication to the team as well as being a model for what it means to be a Spur, I don't see how this is up for debate.

[Das Texan]

I think it should possibly be retired for the 2005 run by itself. Made AI put up lousy numbers in round one, made Ray Allen cry in round 2, made Shawn Marion flat DISAPPEAR in the WCF, and then did a very credible job on Rip Hamilton before being switched onto Billups (who was murdering the Spurs up to that point) which was probably the key adjustment to winning the Finals.

If they handed out MVP's for the entire playoff run and not just the Finals, he might have gotten my vote that year. Throw in the defense he's played night in and night out, the big shots he's hit in the playoffs, and his dedication to the team as well as being a model for what it means to be a Spur, I don't see how this is up for debate.

dont forget the run he had in the 2007 finals on Lebron.

[Da Spurs]

The mistake came when they retired Johnny Moore's number. Then when Avery took over the assist leadership, they had to put his up there as well. Second mistake. The third mistake would be adding Bowen up there.

It should be reserved for only the very best. On the current team, we'll add the big 3. That's plenty for one era. Besides, we have to save some room for a couple more championships.

[spursnatic]

I know what he did, it was vital yes...just as Malik's play off the bench was vital in our other title yrs. But he was average on the offensive end, sometimes even a liability. And as much as I love Bruce, he wasnt a stopper cause guys like Kobe always got their points...he made them work hard yes and probably played them better than anyone else. But those guys got their points regardless.

Should Malik have his jersey retired?You tell me one person that Kobe can't get points on?...He was a huge part of why the Team played great D all of those years...I say definately retire his number here...That would be a huge slap in the face not too?...

[scottspurs]

Yes.

[spursncowboys]

I think it should possibly be retired for the 2005 run by itself. Made AI put up lousy numbers in round one, made Ray Allen cry in round 2, made Shawn Marion flat DISAPPEAR in the WCF, and then did a very credible job on Rip Hamilton before being switched onto Billups (who was murdering the Spurs up to that point) which was probably the key adjustment to winning the Finals.

If they handed out MVP's for the entire playoff run and not just the Finals, he might have gotten my vote that year. Throw in the defense he's played night in and night out, the big shots he's hit in the playoffs, and his dedication to the team as well as being a model for what it means to be a Spur, I don't see how this is up for debate.
:toast

[spursnatic]

The mistake came when they retired Johnny Moore's number. Then when Avery took over the assist leadership, they had to put his up there as well. Second mistake. The third mistake would be adding Bowen up there.

It should be reserved for only the very best. On the current team, we'll add the big 3. That's plenty for one era. Besides, we have to save some room for a couple more championships.Last time I checked it takes a team to win championships?...So being a mistake would be stupid to say?....He deserves it....

[FkLA]

How hilarious would it be if the Lakers retired Fisher's jersey?

That is exactly how idiotic it would be to retire Bowen's. Spurs would and should get ridiculed for it.

[gospursgojas]

The mistake came when they retired Johnny Moore's number. Then when Avery took over the assist leadership, they had to put his up there as well. Second mistake. The third mistake would be adding Bowen up there.

It should be reserved for only the very best. On the current team, we'll add the big 3. That's plenty for one era. Besides, we have to save some room for a couple more championships.

The celtics have like 22 numbers retired.

You're telling me all of those players scored 20+ a night.

Bruce was the part of the very best.

[Kori Ellis]

Playoffs 2005

Carmelo Anthony
Against Spurs, 19.2 ppg on 42%.

Ray Allen
Against Spurs, 21.5 ppg on 43%. (In the first round he had averaged 32ppg)

Shawn Marion
Against Spurs, 7.8 ppg on 39%. (Over the first two rounds he had averaged over 22ppg on over 50% shooting)

Rip Hamilton
Against Spurs, 16.7 ppg on 39%. (Over the first three rounds he had averaged over 20ppg on nearly 50% shooting)


Here's an old post of mine about Bowen. It still applies:



It's about games like .. when Zach Randolph or Chris Bosh were going off on the Spurs this season, Bowen was switched onto them and rendered them useless (I don't think either one of them scored when he was on them). It's about going into the playoffs and being ready to guard anyone and everyone. From shutting down Shawn Marion and making him look like a 7th grader to chasing Rip through screens all day and then switching over to Chauncey in the 4th and getting a game sealing block.

There is absolutely nothing anyone can learn about Bruce Bowen by sitting and compiling stats. But if you watch this guy 82 games a year and see this ~6'6, under 200 pound guy doing whatever it takes and whatever you ask of him, night in and night out, you'll really appreciate him.

[pkbpkb81]

if bowen goes up than horry dose and if horry dose that rose dose and if that happenes lets put the whole 03 team up there for drob a title his last year

stephen jackson was crazy good one year and so was jarren jackson so let's get them up ther too


damn i forgot nazi the spurs don't win in 05 with out him

fuck when dose it stop

[gospursgojas]

How hilarious would it be if the Lakers retired Fisher's jersey?

That is exactly how idiotic it would be to retire Bowen's. Spurs would and should get ridiculed for it.

Who cares if they get ridiculed for it.

That's comes along with being a Spur...not caring or responding to what critics say.

Appreciating what a player can do other than scoring is in the fabric of the Spurs. So maybe in LA they wouldn't see being the best lock down defender of his time worthy of a distinguishment like a jersey retirment, but in the Spurs organization it is.

I belive if Fish did for the Spurs what he has done for the Lakers he would be getting his # retired

[gospursgojas]

There is absolutely nothing anyone can learn about Bruce Bowen by sitting and compiling stats. But if you watch this guy 82 games a year and see this ~6'6, under 200 pound guy doing whatever it takes and whatever you ask of him, night in and night out, you'll really appreciate him.

+1 :tu Kori

[Kori Ellis]

if bowen goes up than horry dose and if horry dose that rose dose and if that happenes lets put the whole 03 team up there for drob a title his last year

stephen jackson was crazy good one year and so was jarren jackson so let's get them up ther too


damn i forgot nazi the spurs don't win in 05 with out him

fuck when dose it stop

That makes no sense whatsoever. Bowen was on the Spurs team for EIGHT years. Every guy in the locker room will attest to huge part in those titles.

Don't start talking about players with one good year. And it's "does" not "dose."

[mrcoon29]

I don't think everyone from 03 should go up, but I don't believe the team would have advanced without Bowen's in-your-shorts defense and I don't mean advanced just thru the finals - I mean year after year he flat out helped. His hard work has EARNED his # being up in the rafters, I believe.

[Da Spurs]

The celtics have like 22 numbers retired.

You're telling me all of those players scored 20+ a night.

Bruce was the part of the very best.

Well, two are non-players and most of the rest are in the Hall of Fame. Oh, by the way, they've been around since 1946.

[jay014]

The celtics have like 22 numbers retired.

You're telling me all of those players scored 20+ a night.

Bruce was the part of the very best.

http://www.nba.com/celtics/history/RetiredNumbers.html

[Nathan Explosion]

In this current Spurs era, if you could choose a player not named Tim Duncan to be the embodiment of the Spurs, Bowen's name would pop up more than a few times.

Bowen did whatever it took to win. He wasn't stylish and didn't make SportsCenter, but he was a professional through and through. Night in and night out he did the dirty work needed to slow down elite players.

Kobe may have scored points on Bruce, but he scored at a clip of a point a shot, which is not a good percentage. The more shots an elite player takes, the less he's getting his team involved and is actually hurting the team's cause. That was Bowen's job.

Bowen's game is never going to show up in the numbers. Bowen's game was about winning, not stats, and in that, he was up there with some of the Spurs greats.

BTW, the Lakers equivelant of retiring Bowen's number would probably be Horry. Horry hit countless big shots, but the underrated part of his game was doing whatever it took to win, especially defensively.

Horry and Bowen are smart, smart players who win games without showing up in the boxscore.

[spursfan1000]

There should be no doubt that his jersey get retired. He was a very big help in our latest championships on his defense that guarded the top players on the oposing team. Hopefully he returns back to the Spurs though.

[FkLA]

In this current Spurs era, if you could choose a player not named Tim Duncan to be the embodiment of the Spurs, Bowen's name would pop up more than a few times.

Bowen did whatever it took to win. He wasn't stylish and didn't make SportsCenter, but he was a professional through and through. Night in and night out he did the dirty work needed to slow down elite players.

Kobe may have scored points on Bruce, but he scored at a clip of a point a shot, which is not a good percentage. The more shots an elite player takes, the less he's getting his team involved and is actually hurting the team's cause. That was Bowen's job.

Bowen's game is never going to show up in the numbers. Bowen's game was about winning, not stats, and in that, he was up there with some of the Spurs greats.

BTW, the Lakers equivelant of retiring Bowen's number would probably be Horry. Horry hit countless big shots, but the underrated part of his game was doing whatever it took to win, especially defensively.

Horry and Bowen are smart, smart players who win games without showing up in the boxscore.

Well guess what? Lakers arent retiring Horry's number...they love the guy to death for what he did, he will always be remembered, and will likely get some type of tribute but he wont get his number retired. Also Rodman was the best defensive player of his time, best rebounder, etc and he has yet to have his number retired by the Bulls and it appears that it will never happen. IMO Rodman is even more deserving of the Bulls retiring his jersey than Bowen having the Spurs retire his.

Bowen was a huge part of our teams, no doubt...just like Horry was for the Lakers and Rodman was for the Bulls but at the end of the day they are still simply very good role players. Retiring their jerseys completely cheapens the act itself.

[baseline bum]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200305070SAS.html

[Vic Petro]

Abso fucking lutely.

His jersey will be retired and should be retired. Some people are posting on here like we was a hired gun Pop used to get the team over the hump for two years. Have you guys not been watching the past 8 years?

There is such a thing as intangibles.

[DMX7]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200305070SAS.html

lol, 7-8 from 3-point range. More proof he doesn't belong, let's see if he gets that without Duncan sucking up his defender nearly ever possession.

[DMX7]

Bowen was a huge part of our teams, no doubt...just like Horry was for the Lakers and Rodman was for the Bulls but at the end of the day they are still simply very good role players. Retiring their jerseys completely cheapens the act itself.

+1,000,000

You retire the jersey of franchise level players not role players who gave you 6 seasons of great defense and 7 points and 2 rebounds per game.

[BuzzerBeater]

Bowen's impact on the game AS A SPUR is incalculable, defense prowess then in early millenium years was not sexy, you can't dismiss the years when the Spurs success was predicated on defense first and offense second. Bowen led the parade. Bruce's All Defensive NBA team honors, how he was the call guy for lockdown late game assignments, Pop would Trust In Bruce and let loose the dog of war. Where's the ladder, hooks and rope, I'll put his jersey up there myself.

[pkbpkb81]

I understand why everyone loves him but he wasn't great just very good so I don't think he belongs



Take a.j down to

[baseline bum]

lol, 7-8 from 3-point range. More proof he doesn't belong, let's see if he gets that without Duncan sucking up his defender nearly ever possession.

Yeah... 3 point shooting = bad.

[phyzik]

Everyone who thinks Bruce's jersey should NOT be retired here needs to be immediately fucking pinked.

I cant BELIEVE some supposed Spurs fans would argue against it just because of stats. The dude brought WAAAAAAYYY fucking more than just numbers. The guy was robbed 3 years out of DPOY nevermind his community contributions which supposedly was a major factor in A.J.'s jersey retirement.

bottom line, fuck you assholes who think his jersey shouldnt be retired... FUCK. YOU.

[El Jefe]

Playoffs 2005

Carmelo Anthony
Against Spurs, 19.2 ppg on 42%.

Ray Allen
Against Spurs, 21.5 ppg on 43%. (In the first round he had averaged 32ppg)

Shawn Marion
Against Spurs, 7.8 ppg on 39%. (Over the first two rounds he had averaged over 22ppg on over 50% shooting)

Rip Hamilton
Against Spurs, 16.7 ppg on 39%. (Over the first three rounds he had averaged over 20ppg on nearly 50% shooting)


Thank you for that. I knew that was my recollection that Bowen did some major work in that run, but it's nice to see the actual numbers. And the ownage of Shawn Marion was actually even worse than I thought!

As for everyone saying it would "cheapen the act of retiring a jersey", what does that even mean? There is no criteria for retiring one, no set of regulations. You do it for the players that meant the most to your team. I don't see how honoring a guy who was a CRITICAL part of 3 championships teams is in anyway cheap. Maybe other franchises wouldn't do it, but the Spurs won 4 titles doing a lot of things other franchises wouldn't do. Bruce may very well be the embodiment of that mindset right there. It's a crime if his jersey doesn't get raised.

[pkbpkb81]

Everyone who thinks Bruce's jersey should NOT be retired here needs to be immediately fucking pinked.

I cant BELIEVE some supposed Spurs fans would argue against it just because of stats. The dude brought WAAAAAAYYY fucking more than just numbers. The guy was robbed 3 years out of DPOY nevermind his community contributions which supposedly was a major factor in A.J.'s jersey retirement.

bottom line, fuck you assholes who think his jersey shouldnt be retired... FUCK. YOU.

no fuck you ok so you want us pinked becuse we don't agree with you what the fuck is this spursreport

[FkLA]

Everyone who thinks Bruce's jersey should NOT be retired here needs to be immediately fucking pinked.

I cant BELIEVE some supposed Spurs fans would argue against it just because of stats. The dude brought WAAAAAAYYY fucking more than just numbers. The guy was robbed 3 years out of DPOY nevermind his community contributions which supposedly was a major factor in A.J.'s jersey retirement.

bottom line, fuck you assholes who think his jersey shouldnt be retired... FUCK. YOU.

Spurs are the 4th most winningnest franchise in basketball in regards to titles...behind the Celtics, Lakers, and Bulls. There are standards for retiring jerseys and even moreso if you are one of the best franchises in the NBA's history. We cant just be retiring every single great role player's, that shit is ridiculous and cheapens the act.

You think the Lakers are retiring Fisher's and Horry's? You think the Bulls are retiring Kerr's or Rodman's? Those player played just as huge of roles on their respective teams as did Bowen on the Spurs. We should thank Bruce, always remember him, and tribute him but thats it. He does not deserve to have his jersey retired.

[Nathan Explosion]

lol, 7-8 from 3-point range. More proof he doesn't belong, let's see if he gets that without Duncan sucking up his defender nearly ever possession.

Check out Kobe's shooting percentage for that game as well. Bowen was a ridiculous .833 from the field. That's a fluke.

However, what wasn't a fluke was Kobe's shooting percentage, 27 points, 9 for 24 from the field, .333 FG percentage.

[spursfan1000]

no fuck you ok so you want us pinked becuse we don't agree with you what the fuck is this spursreport

He does have a point, whoever dosent think Bowen shouldent get his number retired is stupid :lol

[Kori Ellis]

As for everyone saying it would "cheapen the act of retiring a jersey", what does that even mean? There is no criteria for retiring one, no set of regulations. You do it for the players that meant the most to your team. I don't see how honoring a guy who was a CRITICAL part of 3 championships teams is in anyway cheap. Maybe other franchises wouldn't do it, but the Spurs won 4 titles doing a lot of things other franchises wouldn't do. Bruce may very well be the embodiment of that mindset right there. It's a crime if his jersey doesn't get raised.

Exactly.

Malik Sealy is retired in Minny and Bobby Phills retired in N.O. just because they died. (No offense .. RIP) The Magic have number 6 retired as "Fans Sixth Man". There's no rules. If the Spurs just had David and Iceman up.. then I could see arguing that Timmy would be the only other to go up (relatively) soon. But with Sean, AJ etc in the rafters, I don't doubt for a second that Bowen is in their plans.

[phyzik]

no fuck you ok so you want us pinked becuse we don't agree with you what the fuck is this spursreport

What Im saying is if A.J.'s jersey is retired there is NO FUCKING EXCUSE to NOT retire Bruce's jersey. He brought WAY more than that scrub who got 1 lucky shot in.

[Rebounds]

Bowen's impact on the game AS A SPUR is incalculable, defense prowess then in early millenium years was not sexy, you can't dismiss the years when the Spurs success was predicated on defense first and offense second. Bowen led the parade. Bruce's All Defensive NBA team honors, how he was the call guy for lockdown late game assignments, Pop would Trust In Bruce and let loose the dog of war. Where's the ladder, hooks and rope, I'll put his jersey up there myself.

TRUE DAT !!! What he said ^
I'll hold the ladder for you.

[Nathan Explosion]

Spurs are the 4th most winningnest franchise in basketball in regards to titles...behind the Celtics, Lakers, and Bulls.


As far as winning percentage is concerned, the Spurs are #3. FYI.

[El Jefe]

There are standards for retiring jerseys and even moreso if you are one of the best franchises in the NBA's history.

No, there really aren't.

[phyzik]

Spurs are the 4th most winningnest franchise in basketball in regards to titles...behind the Celtics, Lakers, and Bulls. There are standards for retiring jerseys and even moreso if you are one of the best franchises in the NBA's history. We cant just be retiring every single great role player's, that shit is ridiculous and cheapens the act.

You think the Lakers are retiring Fisher's and Horry's? You think the Bulls are retiring Kerr's or Rodman's? Those player played just as huge of roles on their respective teams as did Bowen on the Spurs. We should thank Bruce, always remember him, and tribute him but thats it. He does not deserve to have his jersey retired.

No, there are no "standards". Its not about Stats and being "the man". Just look up in the rafters and look at A.J.'s jersey for proof.

For the Spurs its about how they contributed to the team, regardless of stats, as well as how they contributed to the community.

If ANYONE fits those standards, its Bruce motherfucking Bowen.

[El Jefe]

Exactly.

Malik Sealy is retired in Minny and Bobby Phills retired in N.O. just because they died. (No offense .. RIP) The Magic have number 6 retired as "Fans Sixth Man". There's no rules. If the Spurs just had David and Iceman up.. then I could see arguing that Timmy would be the only other to go up (relatively) soon. But with Sean, AJ etc in the rafters, I don't doubt for a second that Bowen is in their plans.

Don't forget, Jordan's 23 is retired in Miami. If there were rules for this sort of thing, I'm pretty sure "Only players who have been on your roster" would be #1

[SenorSpur]

You mean other than playing the best perimeter defense in the NBA for how many seasons now? If you need a reminder about how great Bowen was defensively, just take a look at the 2007 Finals again. Bowen was amazing guarding Lebron.
And if you need further proof of Bowen's superior defensive excellence, check out the waning moments of Game 7 of the 2005 NBA Finals versus the Pistons, when Bowen, out of a timeout, blocked Chauncey Billiups' game-ending shot at the buzzer.

Bowen deserves to have his jersey retired because his defense was a HUGE reason the Spurs won 3 titles. Not to mention how many timely shots he hit in the playoffs.
Bowen was THE elite, perimeter defender of his era and a perennial DPOY candidate - even thoiugh he never won the award. The Spurs entire defensive philosophy started with him. There's no doubt he deserves to have his number retired.

[Nathan Explosion]

As of late, the recent Spurs aren't your typical franchise. The Spurs just did what it took to win. Substance over style.

Bowen was the epitome of substance over style. Hence why he WILL get his number retired, regardless of what some people here think.

[pkbpkb81]

What Im saying is if A.J.'s jersey is retired there is NO FUCKING EXCUSE to NOT retire Bruce's jersey. He brought WAY more than that scrub who got 1 lucky shot in.

ok i see your point let's take a.j.'s down

[FkLA]

As far as winning percentage is concerned, the Spurs are #3. FYI.

Which is why I clearly said in regards to titles...Bulls have 6 fyi.


No, there are no "standards". Its not about Stats and being "the man". Just look up in the rafters and look at A.J.'s jersey for proof.

For the Spurs its about how they contributed to the team, regardless of stats, as well as how they contributed to the community.

AJ was the general of the 99' team homie, he was the point guard and ran the show...he wasnt just some 'scrub that hit a lucky shot'. With that said he was indeed an average player and I would be against his jersey retirement if it wasnt for the fact that he played a huge role in our very FIRST title. Winning the first title got the ball rolling for us, if we dont win that one who knows how things play out. The first of everything is usually very sentimental for everyone that is the only reason AJ's number is up there.

Again I ask u...Rodman and Kerr were equally as importan to the Bulls as Bowen to us, Fisher and Horry equally as important as Bowen to us. They arent getting their jerseys retired by those team, why should we? Look Bowen was great for the Spurs and he deserves tons of recognition noone is denying that, retiring a jersey though signifies alot though. And role players, regardless of how good they are do not deserve such a recognition.

[phyzik]

ok i see your point let's take a.j.'s down

I felt that way back when his Jersey was retired, just look up my posts, it shouldnt have been done. But if his is up there, there is no WAY you dont retire Bruce's Jersey.

[jay014]

fuck you assholes who think his jersey shouldnt be retired... FUCK. YOU.

if there's a ceremonyhttp://oblivio.com/media/motherfucker.jpg .Without Bruce we will still have 4 titles. Lets retire #34

[Nathan Explosion]

Don't forget, Jordan's 23 is retired in Miami. If there were rules for this sort of thing, I'm pretty sure "Only players who have been on your roster" would be #1

I actually agree with Pat Riley on this one. He states that Jordan was so transcendent that his number should have been retired by every team, so he took that step and retired 23 in honor of Jordan.

One of the few problems I have with Lebron is that he wears 23 because of Jordan. I've done a complete 180 on Lebron since he's come into the league and feel that he should have a different number in the interest of starting his own legacy.

If Lebron were to be the greatest of all time, he'd do it wearing Jordan's number still.

However, let's say he wore 15 or something like that, how many kids for years to come would wear that 15 jersey in honor of the greatest of all time (should he achieve that many years down the line)?

[Nathan Explosion]

Which is why I clearly said in regards to titles...Bulls have 6 fyi.

I know, I actually saw them win all 6. However, as ESPN argued, the Spurs are the 3 greatest franchise because of the consistency shown over the years by the franchise.

The Bulls have a great 90s run and that's it. The Spurs have been very successful throughout the history of the franchise, save for the 80s teams.

Anyway, regardless of what you think or feel, Bowen was a major cog in the Spurs' championship teams, and his number will be retired.

[Horse]

I only agree with AJs jersey retirement for the simple fact that it was the first title and it got the ball rolling...without that first title who knows how things play out. If AJ wouldve done what he did in any other title year I wouldnt be in favor of his jersey retirement because there's no disputing that he was an average player.

Bowen was great for us, but at the end of the day still a one-dimensional role player. Malike played a vital role in some of our other runs as well, that doesnt mean he should get his jersey retired.

I honeslty hope the Spurs dont decide to retire Bowen's jersey. It would completely cheapen the retirement of jerseys.
How about all the clutch 3's year after year. The smart play and ofcourse the D.

[Da Spurs]

Gee, if you do that, then let's just add a bunch more good Spurs. Larry Kenon, Terry Cummings, Mike Mitchell were either the 2nd or 3rd best player on their teams. These guys were great players in their own rights, had great Spurs careers and averaged more points, rebounds, etc. than Bruce Bowen ever thought about. We didn't win the championships because of Bruce Bowen. We won them because of Tim freakin Duncan.

[will_spurs]

Ok so there are 2 types of posters in this thread:
- people who watch and understand what basketball is about and think Bowen's jersey should be retired
- others

[gospursgojas]

Ok so there are 2 types of posters in this thread:
- people who watch and understand what basketball is about and think Bowen's jersey should be retired
- others

Others being lets use the Lakers criteria for retiring jerseys

[El Jefe]

AJ was the general of the 99' team homie, he was the point guard and ran the show...he wasnt just some 'scrub that hit a lucky shot'. With that said he was indeed an average player and I would be against his jersey retirement if it wasnt for the fact that he played a huge role in our very FIRST title. Winning the first title got the ball rolling for us, if we dont win that one who knows how things play out. The first of everything is usually very sentimental for everyone that is the only reason AJ's number is up there.


Wait, so you're ok with AJ's jersey being retired, but not with Bowen's? Surely I'm just misinterpreting something here.

And you keep bringing up Chicago not retiring Rodman or Kerr. I don't see how it's relevant to the argument. Nor Fisher with LA. Should the Spurs sit around and wait to see what Chicago or LA do before deciding how to honor any more of their own players? Do they need permission? (BTW I wouldn't see a problem with LA retiring Fish's number. I'm not sure they would, and I'll never forgive the little turd for .4, but it wouldn't be absurd to me if they went that route)

Every franchise is a little different. The Spurs valued teamwork, defense, and desire to win over statistics for many years. It won them 4 titles. I'd like to see them honor those values by raising Bowen's jersey. I understand you seem to think it's a little much, I just don't buy either the "it cheapens the gesture" argument, nor do I buy the slippery slope argument (Andrew Gaze, up to the rafters with you!) If the Spurs decide it's the appropriate response, then I'd love to be there that night to cheer Bowen one more time.

[spurzzzz]

Ok so there are 2 types of posters in this thread:
- people who watch and understand what basketball is about and think Bowen's jersey should be retired
- others

True.

[El Jefe]

Gee, if you do that, then let's just add a bunch more good Spurs. Larry Kenon, Terry Cummings, Mike Mitchell were either the 2nd or 3rd best player on their teams. These guys were great players in their own rights, had great Spurs careers and averaged more points, rebounds, etc. than Bruce Bowen ever thought about. We didn't win the championships because of Bruce Bowen. We won them because of Tim freakin Duncan.

Was Duncan the foundation of the championship teams? Of course, and that's why his jersey will be in the rafters the SECOND he's available to attend the ceremony.

But it's disingenuous to say he won them on his own. No one can, and if someone DID think he single handedly won titles, they don't understand how basketball is played.

The core of the 99 team (sans Duncan) is already up in the rafters. The core of 03, 05 and 07 are all still playing. Duncan, Parker and Ginobili are given, and if anyone can conjure up a coherent argument for leaving the last two off, I'll be shocked.

There is one other player who played on all 3 teams, who started, logged 30+ minutes every night, who routinely did everything to win and stepped up time and time again in playoff situations. How anyone doesn't include Bowen in the core of those 3 title teams is beyond me.

[J.T.]

The only Spur in danger of not having his number retired out of this group is Manu. Dude needs to turn in one more awesome 2005-style playoff run capped off with a championship and maybe even challenge for the Finals MVP again. Right now he's more famous for his bald spot than his game and that needs to change immediately.

[Da Spurs]

But it's disingenuous to say he won them on his own. No one can, and if someone DID think he single handedly won titles, they don't understand how basketball is played.

I never said he single handedly won titles. I said we won titles because of him. Take him off our team and we would have won ZERO FUCKING TITLES! Much like Chicago would have won ZERO FUCKING TITLES without MJ.

Sure you need a team and the big 3 are locks to be in the rafters. Bowen? Not so sure.

[SouthTexasRancher]

It fucking better after A.J.'s was retired.


Consider it done!!!

[bishopospurs]

I know, I actually saw them win all 6. However, as ESPN argued, the Spurs are the 3 greatest franchise because of the consistency shown over the years by the franchise.

The Bulls have a great 90s run and that's it. The Spurs have been very successful throughout the history of the franchise, save for the 80s teams.

Anyway, regardless of what you think or feel, Bowen was a major cog in the Spurs' championship teams, and his number will be retired.
We had some good teams in the early eighties, 83 western conference finals team, after we traded the Iceman it went downhill for 5 years or so. Not bad for rebuilding till D Rob came to town.

I am on the fence on Bowen's jersey, I am leaning to no. There is definitely going to be 3 going to the rafters soon, but Avery makes it seem like the door is open. I kind of feel like it would Chicago retiring Kukoc's number, is it necessary?

[2pac]

I hope Bowen's jersey is hung in a way to box out our view of the Avery Johnson jersey.

[Da Spurs]

The only Spur in danger of not having his number retired out of this group is Manu. Dude needs to turn in one more awesome 2005-style playoff run capped off with a championship and maybe even challenge for the Finals MVP again. Right now he's more famous for his bald spot than his game and that needs to change immediately.

That would be a first. To have a future Hall of Famer on your team who doesn't get his jersey retired.
:lol:lol:lol

And don't think he isn't a HOF'er with his international achievements as well.

[sabar]

Ok so there are 2 types of posters in this thread:
- people who watch and understand what basketball is about and think Bowen's jersey should be retired
- others

Pretty much.

Anyone that discredits Bowen by bringing up stats loses spur fan status by default.

[50 cent]

Those of you that keep justifying Avery because he hit the shot that sealed the first championship are ridiculous.

It was game fucking 5 and we were dominant that offseason. We weren't going to lose 3 games in a row.

Bowen's block on Billups' 3 late in Game 7 in 2005 was much more important than Avery's shot in game 5.

[Da Spurs]

Avery was the career assist leader. It wasn't just the one shot. Of course, we were all used to him missing them.

[urunobili]

http://www.gnr8.biz/images/blue_lock%20main.jpg

[timtonymanu]

Bowen deserves to have his jersey retired period. And those few nonbelievers need to stop their bullshit about Bowen being a "role" player. Just because he wasn't an all-star player doesn't mean that he hasn't earned a jersey retirement. He was very important to the Spurs title run in 03. His defense on Kobe was superb. And remember the 6 3 pointers he made one game. No Bowen in 03 = Lakers 4peat. 05, Bowen completely harassed Ray Allen and Shawn Marion and did an excellent job against Rip. He did the clutch block on Billups. 07, Bowen made LeBron disappear. He also did great at defending Nash. Bruce has also done alot for the community. He is a true Spur at heart. Right now, so many Spurs fans want him back even if he's old as hell.

And fkla, you're an idiot if you think Avery deserves a jersey retirement over Bruce. So one winning shot > defense that lead to three titles. Btw, i think Elliott's shot did it for the Spurs in 99. Anyways, Tim, Manu, Tony, and Bruce all deserve a jersey retirement. If Bowen was just a "role" player, he would have been gone a long time ago. But he was worth so much that his jersey should be raised. No question.

[S_A_Longhorn]

Yes.

Nothing else to discuss

[ambchang]

Bowen represented what the Spurs was about the last 8 years by working hard, playing the best perimeter defense in the league, and valuing teamwork.

To compare his contributions to those of Malik Rose, Steve Kerr and Dennis Rodman is absolutely retarded, and shows little to no understanding of basketball.

Bowen was more influential on the Spurs 3 championships than Avery Johnson was on the 99 title.

[Spurlady]

Well guess what? Lakers arent retiring Horry's number...they love the guy to death for what he did, he will always be remembered, and will likely get some type of tribute but he wont get his number retired. Also Rodman was the best defensive player of his time, best rebounder, etc and he has yet to have his number retired by the Bulls and it appears that it will never happen. IMO Rodman is even more deserving of the Bulls retiring his jersey than Bowen having the Spurs retire his.

Bowen was a huge part of our teams, no doubt...just like Horry was for the Lakers and Rodman was for the Bulls but at the end of the day they are still simply very good role players. Retiring their jerseys completely cheapens the act itself.

Who cares how other teams decide whose jersey gets retired. This is about the Spurs and how they decide. I think that Bowen's contributions to the Spurs and to the community over the past 8 years justify his jersey retirement, as do most posters.

[jb4g]

The Spurs already set the precedent by retiring Avery's #, so you really cant deny Bruce at this point.

IMO neither should have been retired.

[Drachen]

Don't forget, Jordan's 23 is retired in Miami. If there were rules for this sort of thing, I'm pretty sure "Only players who have been on your roster" would be #1

No, that rule would be #2, the #1 rule would come from the same team though. The only other player's number that they have retired is . . . . . . . . Dan Marino's number. So the #1 rule would be "Only players who play the sport of basketball . . ."

[Agloco]

AJ was our general and hit the title-clinching shot in our first run, that title team got things rolling...he deserves to have his retired.

As for Bowen, I say no. Give him a tribute but having his jersey retired is too much for a player that although contributed was nothing out of this world.


Bruce getting his jersey retired would honestly be ridiculous, it would completely cheapen the retiring of jerseys. Malik was vital in what 3? of our title teams as well, was the embodiment of a Spur, was just as big a part of the community as Bruce, loved the city just as much, etc.

Honor both of these guys with a tribute but thats it, cant believe some of u guys are actually in favor of retiring his jersey.

:lmao:lmao

lmao at Avery :tu but Bruce :td

[rayray2k8]

Once he retires, he should be considered having his jersey being hung up in the rafters.

[FkLA]

Bowen deserves to have his jersey retired period. And those few nonbelievers need to stop their bullshit about Bowen being a "role" player. Just because he wasn't an all-star player doesn't mean that he hasn't earned a jersey retirement. He was very important to the Spurs title run in 03. His defense on Kobe was superb. And remember the 6 3 pointers he made one game. No Bowen in 03 = Lakers 4peat. 05, Bowen completely harassed Ray Allen and Shawn Marion and did an excellent job against Rip. He did the clutch block on Billups. 07, Bowen made LeBron disappear. He also did great at defending Nash. Bruce has also done alot for the community. He is a true Spur at heart. Right now, so many Spurs fans want him back even if he's old as hell.

And fkla, you're an idiot if you think Avery deserves a jersey retirement over Bruce. So one winning shot > defense that lead to three titles. Btw, i think Elliott's shot did it for the Spurs in 99. Anyways, Tim, Manu, Tony, and Bruce all deserve a jersey retirement. If Bowen was just a "role" player, he would have been gone a long time ago. But he was worth so much that his jersey should be raised. No question.

Could u be any more biased against AJ? I dont know if people are pissed off that he coached the Mavs for a while or what, but are yall forgetting that AJ holds the Spurs all-time assist record?Sure he was nothing special in every other aspect of the game, but thats pretty much Bowen as well...great at defense but sorry at everything else. But to be honest the only reason I agree with AJ being up there is because he was first and foremost the general of our FIRST title team, the fact that he hit the clinching shot is just even more reason and not the sole reason. The first of everything always holds sentimental value, it got the ball rolling...if we dont win the first one who knows how things play out. Just recently there have been great teams that never won a title (Utah Jazz, Kings, Mavs of a couple of yrs ago, etc). Also u want to talk about Bowen's involvement in the community, which I completely agree was awesome...AJ was right up there as well.

As for Bruce's contributions, noone is denying that...of course he played a role in our titles noone is denying that. But than again so did Malik in our early titles, very versatile defender as well and an even more polished offensive player. Great with the community as well...I'll remember these guys for what they did and appreciate it but I dont think theyre deserving of a jersey retirement. Like I said Kerr and Rodman were huge for the Bulls, Horry and Fisher huge for the Lakers and none of those four players are getting their jersey's retired. Retiring a jersey is not something u do to honor every single role player that played a big part in your sucess...the act should be reserved for players that are the big reason your team had sucess (Duncan, Parker, Manu).

[ambchang]

You kept bringing up Kerr on the Bulls, but he played an average of around 23 mpg in the regular season, and about 19 in the playoffs. While he was great at his role as a 3 pt shooter, he wasn't vital the Bulls' success. Bowen played heavy minutes on the Spurs, averaging over 30 a game. His defense on Richard Jefferson in 03, Nash and Lebron James in 07, and Ray Allen, Nash and Chauncey Billups in 05 allowed the Spurs to beat these teams. Bowen didn't just contribute, he was vital to the success. If you haven't already done so, I suggest you rewatch all those playoff games with Bowen essentially shutting down the oppositions offense.

Malik Rose can't even be compared to Bruce Bowen on the defensive end. Was he ever 1st defensive team? Forget it, how about 2nd team? Was he ever in place to stop players like Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Richard Jefferson, Jason Kidd, Lebron James? In other words, was Malik Rose ever counted on to put the clamps on the player responsible for the other team's offense?

Rodman was a nutcase, and one of the major reasons his number wasn't retired.

You ragged on Bowen about doing one thing and only one thing well, and that was defense. First off, it's wrong, Bowen was a fantastic 3 pt shooter and plays very well within the constructs of the offense. Second, Avery Johnson was about as one-dimensional as Bowen.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Bruce was a key part of the core group of players from the greatest years in the history of the franchise.

His jersey retirement is a no-brainer.


Next.

:cooldevil

[FkLA]

You kept bringing up Kerr on the Bulls, but he played an average of around 23 mpg in the regular season, and about 19 in the playoffs. While he was great at his role as a 3 pt shooter, he wasn't vital the Bulls' success. Bowen played heavy minutes on the Spurs, averaging over 30 a game. His defense on Richard Jefferson in 03, Nash and Lebron James in 07, and Ray Allen, Nash and Chauncey Billups in 05 allowed the Spurs to beat these teams. Bowen didn't just contribute, he was vital to the success. If you haven't already done so, I suggest you rewatch all those playoff games with Bowen essentially shutting down the oppositions offense.

Yea Kerr was a great shooter for them and nothing special in every other aspect, same with Bowen...great on defense nothing special in everything else. But whatever if u want to scratch Kerr of the list because of his minutes than go ahead...the Horry, Fisher, and Rodman comparisons are still there and are a very valid point.

And Ive watched every single game from the Spurs over the last 15 yrs, I saw what Bowen has done...how he contained, not shut down, some huge stars. Im not discrediting what he did simply saying that that doesnt warrant his jersey being retired.


Malik Rose can't even be compared to Bruce Bowen on the defensive end. Was he ever 1st defensive team? Forget it, how about 2nd team? Was he ever in place to stop players like Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Richard Jefferson, Jason Kidd, Lebron James? In other words, was Malik Rose ever counted on to put the clamps on the player responsible for the other team's offense?

Im not comparing him, just saying that Malik was a very versatile defender as well...dude could D up Shaq one series and Dirk out on the perimeter the next. And he was much more polished offensively, Bruce was exclusively a corner 3-point shooter and was a liability with his FT shooting. Malik was a huge part of our first two titles especially 2003.


Rodman was a nutcase, and one of the major reasons his number wasn't retired.

You ragged on Bowen about doing one thing and only one thing well, and that was defense. First off, it's wrong, Bowen was a fantastic 3 pt shooter and plays very well within the constructs of the offense. Second, Avery Johnson was about as one-dimensional as Bowen.

Thats simply specualtion on your part, personally I think it has more to do with the fact that unlike u guys they actually value what retiring a jersey signifies...Jordan and Pippen will have theirs hung up. Why? Because although Rodman was a vital part of that team, just like Bowen was for the Spurs, Jordan and Pippen were what made the sucess possible just like Tim, Tony, and Manu made it possible for the Spurs.

A fantastic corner 3-pt shooter, that was often times a liability on offense with his lack of handles and poor FT shooting...and yes I agree that AJ was one-dimensional. Did you need read my previous post as to why I agree AJ's jersey should be hung up there?

[z0sa]

Bruce was a key part of the core group of players from the greatest years in the history of the franchise.

His jersey retirement is a no-brainer.


Next.

:cooldevil


:repost:

[slick'81]

yeah if aj/elliott can get in soo can bowen. their all spurs for life and were vital on the floor to championship teams and in the community.

im not going to nit pic and say only gervin,timmy and dave belong each case is unique

[honestfool84]

Bruce getting his jersey retired would honestly be ridiculous, it would completely cheapen the retiring of jerseys. Malik was vital in what 3? of our title teams as well, was the embodiment of a Spur, was just as big a part of the community as Bruce, loved the city just as much, etc.

Honor both of these guys with a tribute but thats it, cant believe some of u guys are actually in favor of retiring his jersey.


I know what he did, it was vital yes...just as Malik's play off the bench was vital in our other title yrs. But he was average on the offensive end, sometimes even a liability. And as much as I love Bruce, he wasnt a stopper cause guys like Kobe always got their points...he made them work hard yes and probably played them better than anyone else. But those guys got their points regardless.

Should Malik have his jersey retired?


Bowen wasnt even the best defender on his team the past 8 yrs.


I only agree with AJs jersey retirement for the simple fact that it was the first title and it got the ball rolling...without that first title who knows how things play out. If AJ wouldve done what he did in any other title year I wouldnt be in favor of his jersey retirement because there's no disputing that he was an average player.

Bowen was great for us, but at the end of the day still a one-dimensional role player. Malike played a vital role in some of our other runs as well, that doesnt mean he should get his jersey retired.

I honeslty hope the Spurs dont decide to retire Bowen's jersey. It would completely cheapen the retirement of jerseys.


So should the Bulls retire Rodman's jersey? The Lakers Fisher's or Fox's?

Come on man, I love Bruce too...but open your damn eyes he was a one-dimensional role player. Great organizations dont just retire the jerseys of everyone that plays a role in a title. This is completely stupid and people are being blinded by the love they have for Bruce.


Bruce getting his jersey retired would honestly be ridiculous, it would completely cheapen the retiring of jerseys. Malik was vital in what 3? of our title teams as well, was the embodiment of a Spur, was just as big a part of the community as Bruce, loved the city just as much, etc.

Honor both of these guys with a tribute but thats it, cant believe some of u guys are actually in favor of retiring his jersey.


I know what he did, it was vital yes...just as Malik's play off the bench was vital in our other title yrs. But he was average on the offensive end, sometimes even a liability. And as much as I love Bruce, he wasnt a stopper cause guys like Kobe always got their points...he made them work hard yes and probably played them better than anyone else. But those guys got their points regardless.

Should Malik have his jersey retired?


Bowen wasnt even the best defender on his team the past 8 yrs.


I only agree with AJs jersey retirement for the simple fact that it was the first title and it got the ball rolling...without that first title who knows how things play out. If AJ wouldve done what he did in any other title year I wouldnt be in favor of his jersey retirement because there's no disputing that he was an average player.

Bowen was great for us, but at the end of the day still a one-dimensional role player. Malike played a vital role in some of our other runs as well, that doesnt mean he should get his jersey retired.

I honeslty hope the Spurs dont decide to retire Bowen's jersey. It would completely cheapen the retirement of jerseys.


Not a bigger role, but an equal role or at the very least very close to an equal role...people praise Bowen for guarding players as small and quick as Nash than the next series guarding players as big and explosive as Lebron. Are u guys forgetting some of the players Malik D'd up? The dude would stand his ground against fucken Shaq, who had like 5 inches and who knows how many pounds on him. Than go out and guard guys like Dirk out on the perimeter the next series. He was also a much more polished offensive player than Bowen ever was, u bring up his 7 treys against LA in 2003 and I remind u of Malik's 20+ points off the bench against the Nets that same year. I think people forget how important Malik was as well.

Malik deserves a huge tribute, as does Bruce but thats it. Having the Spurs retire Bruce's jersey would be the equivalent of the Lakers retiring Fisher's or Rick Fox's...its laughable.



Are the Bulls's retiring Rodman's jersey?


How hilarious would it be if the Lakers retired Fisher's jersey?

That is exactly how idiotic it would be to retire Bowen's. Spurs would and should get ridiculed for it.


Well guess what? Lakers arent retiring Horry's number...they love the guy to death for what he did, he will always be remembered, and will likely get some type of tribute but he wont get his number retired. Also Rodman was the best defensive player of his time, best rebounder, etc and he has yet to have his number retired by the Bulls and it appears that it will never happen. IMO Rodman is even more deserving of the Bulls retiring his jersey than Bowen having the Spurs retire his.

Bowen was a huge part of our teams, no doubt...just like Horry was for the Lakers and Rodman was for the Bulls but at the end of the day they are still simply very good role players. Retiring their jerseys completely cheapens the act itself.



Bruce getting his jersey retired would honestly be ridiculous, it would completely cheapen the retiring of jerseys. Malik was vital in what 3? of our title teams as well, was the embodiment of a Spur, was just as big a part of the community as Bruce, loved the city just as much, etc.

Honor both of these guys with a tribute but thats it, cant believe some of u guys are actually in favor of retiring his jersey.


I know what he did, it was vital yes...just as Malik's play off the bench was vital in our other title yrs. But he was average on the offensive end, sometimes even a liability. And as much as I love Bruce, he wasnt a stopper cause guys like Kobe always got their points...he made them work hard yes and probably played them better than anyone else. But those guys got their points regardless.

Should Malik have his jersey retired?


Bowen wasnt even the best defender on his team the past 8 yrs.


I only agree with AJs jersey retirement for the simple fact that it was the first title and it got the ball rolling...without that first title who knows how things play out. If AJ wouldve done what he did in any other title year I wouldnt be in favor of his jersey retirement because there's no disputing that he was an average player.

Bowen was great for us, but at the end of the day still a one-dimensional role player. Malike played a vital role in some of our other runs as well, that doesnt mean he should get his jersey retired.

I honeslty hope the Spurs dont decide to retire Bowen's jersey. It would completely cheapen the retirement of jerseys.


Not a bigger role, but an equal role or at the very least very close to an equal role...people praise Bowen for guarding players as small and quick as Nash than the next series guarding players as big and explosive as Lebron. Are u guys forgetting some of the players Malik D'd up? The dude would stand his ground against fucken Shaq, who had like 5 inches and who knows how many pounds on him. Than go out and guard guys like Dirk out on the perimeter the next series. He was also a much more polished offensive player than Bowen ever was, u bring up his 7 treys against LA in 2003 and I remind u of Malik's 20+ points off the bench against the Nets that same year. I think people forget how important Malik was as well.

Malik deserves a huge tribute, as does Bruce but thats it. Having the Spurs retire Bruce's jersey would be the equivalent of the Lakers retiring Fisher's or Rick Fox's...its laughable.



Are the Bulls's retiring Rodman's jersey?


How hilarious would it be if the Lakers retired Fisher's jersey?

That is exactly how idiotic it would be to retire Bowen's. Spurs would and should get ridiculed for it.


Spurs are the 4th most winningnest franchise in basketball in regards to titles...behind the Celtics, Lakers, and Bulls. There are standards for retiring jerseys and even moreso if you are one of the best franchises in the NBA's history. We cant just be retiring every single great role player's, that shit is ridiculous and cheapens the act.

You think the Lakers are retiring Fisher's and Horry's? You think the Bulls are retiring Kerr's or Rodman's? Those player played just as huge of roles on their respective teams as did Bowen on the Spurs. We should thank Bruce, always remember him, and tribute him but thats it. He does not deserve to have his jersey retired.


Which is why I clearly said in regards to titles...Bulls have 6 fyi.



AJ was the general of the 99' team homie, he was the point guard and ran the show...he wasnt just some 'scrub that hit a lucky shot'. With that said he was indeed an average player and I would be against his jersey retirement if it wasnt for the fact that he played a huge role in our very FIRST title. Winning the first title got the ball rolling for us, if we dont win that one who knows how things play out. The first of everything is usually very sentimental for everyone that is the only reason AJ's number is up there.

Again I ask u...Rodman and Kerr were equally as importan to the Bulls as Bowen to us, Fisher and Horry equally as important as Bowen to us. They arent getting their jerseys retired by those team, why should we? Look Bowen was great for the Spurs and he deserves tons of recognition noone is denying that, retiring a jersey though signifies alot though. And role players, regardless of how good they are do not deserve such a recognition.



Bruce getting his jersey retired would honestly be ridiculous, it would completely cheapen the retiring of jerseys. Malik was vital in what 3? of our title teams as well, was the embodiment of a Spur, was just as big a part of the community as Bruce, loved the city just as much, etc.

Honor both of these guys with a tribute but thats it, cant believe some of u guys are actually in favor of retiring his jersey.


I know what he did, it was vital yes...just as Malik's play off the bench was vital in our other title yrs. But he was average on the offensive end, sometimes even a liability. And as much as I love Bruce, he wasnt a stopper cause guys like Kobe always got their points...he made them work hard yes and probably played them better than anyone else. But those guys got their points regardless.

Should Malik have his jersey retired?


Bowen wasnt even the best defender on his team the past 8 yrs.


I only agree with AJs jersey retirement for the simple fact that it was the first title and it got the ball rolling...without that first title who knows how things play out. If AJ wouldve done what he did in any other title year I wouldnt be in favor of his jersey retirement because there's no disputing that he was an average player.

Bowen was great for us, but at the end of the day still a one-dimensional role player. Malike played a vital role in some of our other runs as well, that doesnt mean he should get his jersey retired.

I honeslty hope the Spurs dont decide to retire Bowen's jersey. It would completely cheapen the retirement of jerseys.


Not a bigger role, but an equal role or at the very least very close to an equal role...people praise Bowen for guarding players as small and quick as Nash than the next series guarding players as big and explosive as Lebron. Are u guys forgetting some of the players Malik D'd up? The dude would stand his ground against fucken Shaq, who had like 5 inches and who knows how many pounds on him. Than go out and guard guys like Dirk out on the perimeter the next series. He was also a much more polished offensive player than Bowen ever was, u bring up his 7 treys against LA in 2003 and I remind u of Malik's 20+ points off the bench against the Nets that same year. I think people forget how important Malik was as well.

Malik deserves a huge tribute, as does Bruce but thats it. Having the Spurs retire Bruce's jersey would be the equivalent of the Lakers retiring Fisher's or Rick Fox's...its laughable.



Are the Bulls's retiring Rodman's jersey?


How hilarious would it be if the Lakers retired Fisher's jersey?

That is exactly how idiotic it would be to retire Bowen's. Spurs would and should get ridiculed for it.


Spurs are the 4th most winningnest franchise in basketball in regards to titles...behind the Celtics, Lakers, and Bulls. There are standards for retiring jerseys and even moreso if you are one of the best franchises in the NBA's history. We cant just be retiring every single great role player's, that shit is ridiculous and cheapens the act.

You think the Lakers are retiring Fisher's and Horry's? You think the Bulls are retiring Kerr's or Rodman's? Those player played just as huge of roles on their respective teams as did Bowen on the Spurs. We should thank Bruce, always remember him, and tribute him but thats it. He does not deserve to have his jersey retired.


Could u be any more biased against AJ? I dont know if people are pissed off that he coached the Mavs for a while or what, but are yall forgetting that AJ holds the Spurs all-time assist record?Sure he was nothing special in every other aspect of the game, but thats pretty much Bowen as well...great at defense but sorry at everything else. But to be honest the only reason I agree with AJ being up there is because he was first and foremost the general of our FIRST title team, the fact that he hit the clinching shot is just even more reason and not the sole reason. The first of everything always holds sentimental value, it got the ball rolling...if we dont win the first one who knows how things play out. Just recently there have been great teams that never won a title (Utah Jazz, Kings, Mavs of a couple of yrs ago, etc). Also u want to talk about Bowen's involvement in the community, which I completely agree was awesome...AJ was right up there as well.

As for Bruce's contributions, noone is denying that...of course he played a role in our titles noone is denying that. But than again so did Malik in our early titles, very versatile defender as well and an even more polished offensive player. Great with the community as well...I'll remember these guys for what they did and appreciate it but I dont think theyre deserving of a jersey retirement. Like I said Kerr and Rodman were huge for the Bulls, Horry and Fisher huge for the Lakers and none of those four players are getting their jersey's retired. Retiring a jersey is not something u do to honor every single role player that played a big part in your sucess...the act should be reserved for players that are the big reason your team had sucess (Duncan, Parker, Manu).


Yea Kerr was a great shooter for them and nothing special in every other aspect, same with Bowen...great on defense nothing special in everything else. But whatever if u want to scratch Kerr of the list because of his minutes than go ahead...the Horry, Fisher, and Rodman comparisons are still there and are a very valid point.

And Ive watched every single game from the Spurs over the last 15 yrs, I saw what Bowen has done...how he contained, not shut down, some huge stars. Im not discrediting what he did simply saying that that doesnt warrant his jersey being retired.



Im not comparing him, just saying that Malik was a very versatile defender as well...dude could D up Shaq one series and Dirk out on the perimeter the next. And he was much more polished offensively, Bruce was exclusively a corner 3-point shooter and was a liability with his FT shooting. Malik was a huge part of our first two titles especially 2003.



Thats simply specualtion on your part, personally I think it has more to do with the fact that unlike u guys they actually value what retiring a jersey signifies...Jordan and Pippen will have theirs hung up. Why? Because although Rodman was a vital part of that team, just like Bowen was for the Spurs, Jordan and Pippen were what made the sucess possible just like Tim, Tony, and Manu made it possible for the Spurs.

A fantastic corner 3-pt shooter, that was often times a liability on offense with his lack of handles and poor FT shooting...and yes I agree that AJ was one-dimensional. Did you need read my previous post as to why I agree AJ's jersey should be hung up there?


FkLA: all your stupid posts, all bunched together.

im pretty sure you repeated yourself in every single post.

the beautiful thing is, that no matter what you think, bowen's jersey WILL be retired.

[Seventyniner]

This *is* a forum for opinions, after all.

I suppose I'm a hardass, but I wouldn't have retired AJ's jersey, thought twice about Elliott, and definitely wouldn't retire Bowen's. But since Elliott and AJ already have their jerseys in the rafters, #12 will join them in the next few years.

As obnoxious and over-opinionated as FkLa is, I agree that retiring Bowen's jersey is like the Lakers retiring Fisher's jersey.

[Agloco]

Which is why I clearly said in regards to titles...Bulls have 6 fyi.



AJ was the general of the 99' team homie, he was the point guard and ran the show...he wasnt just some 'scrub that hit a lucky shot'. With that said he was indeed an average player and I would be against his jersey retirement if it wasnt for the fact that he played a huge role in our very FIRST title. Winning the first title got the ball rolling for us, if we dont win that one who knows how things play out. The first of everything is usually very sentimental for everyone that is the only reason AJ's number is up there.

Again I ask u...Rodman and Kerr were equally as importan to the Bulls as Bowen to us, Fisher and Horry equally as important as Bowen to us. They arent getting their jerseys retired by those team, why should we? Look Bowen was great for the Spurs and he deserves tons of recognition noone is denying that, retiring a jersey though signifies alot though. And role players, regardless of how good they are do not deserve such a recognition.

With the Spurs going for #4 this year.....

I'm having a really hard time with your logic when you say the first one got the ball rolling. The 2003 team was vastly different than the 99 team. Add in the fact that some other team 3-peated in between.....

Clarify why you think the first one "got the ball rolling".

[FkLA]

Bro u quoted each of my posts like 5 times, wtf haha.

And Im aware the decision isnt up to me, just as it isnt up to u...Im just hoping the Spurs arent actually stupid enough to do it. It would be idiotic.


With the Spurs going for #4 this year.....

I'm having a really hard time with your logic when you say the first one got the ball rolling. The 2003 team was vastly different than the 99 team. Add in the fact that some other team 3-peated in between.....

Clarify why you think the first one "got the ball rolling".

Kings, Jazz, Mavs from a few years ago...great teams that were never able to get over the hump and win a title. Getting the first one is always the hardest thing to do.

[Old School 44]

Bowen's a lock.
Personally though, I only think two should be retired, the Iceman & D-Rob...and then later Duncan, Ginobili and Parker.

[spursjustice]

He played a major role in 3 of our championships. He always drew the opposing team's best perimeter threat. He was the best defender on the best defensive team.

There's no doubt he'll get his jersey retired.

[HarlemHeat37]

LOL @ these arguments..

How is Bowen getting retired the same as Fisher getting his jersey retired?!..apparently the anti-Bowen people didn't watch basketball outside of the Spurs..Bowen wasn't some guy that had the same effect as other random role players on other title teams, he was a league-wide elite defender..

Bowen was widely recognized as one of the best defenders, if not the best, in the entire NBA..I can't say the same for guys like Rick Fox and Derek Fisher, who have been mentioned, which is ridiculous..he was easily the best perimeter defender of the post-Jordan era..

all-NBA defensive 1st teams: 5, all in a row..
all-NBA defensive 2nd teams: 3, all in a row..
DPOY voting: 7th, 4th, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 4th..

Is there really any doubt?!..LOL..sad, really..

this isn't arguing about going into the HOF, it's about getting his jersey retired for his team..it's a no-brainer when he had a huge part in 3 rings, all while being the best perimeter defender in the NBA..

[Gervin44Silas13]

Bruce getting his jersey retired would honestly be ridiculous, it would completely cheapen the retiring of jerseys. Malik was vital in what 3? of our title teams as well, was the embodiment of a Spur, was just as big a part of the community as Bruce, loved the city just as much, etc.

Honor both of these guys with a tribute but thats it, cant believe some of u guys are actually in favor of retiring his jersey.

Malik only won 2 offically he wasn't in the post season roster of 2005 he was traded that year


Bowen.... yes retire his jersey 3 things stand out

The Kobe stoper in 2003

the crucial block on Billups in Game 7 sealed out 3rd
and was on Lebron jock strap all in the 2007 series to seal our 4th

if the NBA doesn't want to give him the props for DPOY then screw em....at least the franchise will

[raspsa]

I think he was the "face"of the Spurs defensively in the years he played. He embodied the underdog who won out against the odds to grab the ultimate prize.. no doubt in my mind his number gets retired at some poiunt.

[Solid D]

No doubt in my mind that #12 will be retired. Bruce was the Spurs' KC Jones. KC and Bruce played different positions, their personalities are almost polar opposities, but their contributions were a key part of their team's defensive prowess and identity.

There aren't many players who could average 7 ppg and have their numbers retired, unless you are KC Jones and Bruce Bowen. They helped slow down the opposition's perimeter scorers who are, or will be, hall of fame players. They won rings. Jones' #25 justifiably hangs in the rafters, as should Bruce's #12.

http://product.images.fansedge.com/35-88/35-88389-F.jpg

[ambchang]

Yea Kerr was a great shooter for them and nothing special in every other aspect, same with Bowen...great on defense nothing special in everything else. But whatever if u want to scratch Kerr of the list because of his minutes than go ahead...the Horry, Fisher, and Rodman comparisons are still there and are a very valid point.
Defense is not in the same category as shooting. Defense is comparable to offense, while shooting is only one aspect of shooting. You would have to equate one aspect of defense, say, boxing out, or fighting through screens, to shooting.
One thing you continue to harp on is that defense is all but a minor part of the game, something equivalent to shooting, or even as ridiculously as making one shot in the NBA finals. It is not. Defense is half the game. Bowen being exceptional on defense is equivalent to someone being exceptional in offense relative to their contributions on the court.

And Ive watched every single game from the Spurs over the last 15 yrs, I saw what Bowen has done...how he contained, not shut down, some huge stars. Im not discrediting what he did simply saying that that doesnt warrant his jersey being retired.
And Avery Johnson deserved to have his jersey retired because of one shot?
I am also surprised that after watching more than 1300 games that you can’t see how Bowen’s single coverage of perimeter superstars allow the Spurs not to double team and let the team rotate on defense well while not getting lit up for 40 points a game.

Im not comparing him, just saying that Malik was a very versatile defender as well...dude could D up Shaq one series and Dirk out on the perimeter the next. And he was much more polished offensively, Bruce was exclusively a corner 3-point shooter and was a liability with his FT shooting. Malik was a huge part of our first two titles especially 2003.
And Shaq and Dirk ate him alive. Besides, Robinson was the one guarding Shaq, and Bowen was the main guy guarding Dirk. The fact that Bowen couldn’t guard Dirk and Howard at the same time meant that the Spurs match up with the Mavs poorly. Shawn Marion can D up on point guards up to PFs, but I am never going to say that he is a great defender because of that. Being versatile and good are two different things. Bowen was versatile AND great.

Thats simply specualtion on your part, personally I think it has more to do with the fact that unlike u guys they actually value what retiring a jersey signifies...Jordan and Pippen will have theirs hung up. Why? Because although Rodman was a vital part of that team, just like Bowen was for the Spurs, Jordan and Pippen were what made the sucess possible just like Tim, Tony, and Manu made it possible for the Spurs.
And yours wasn’t speculation? How is it that yours is fact and mine is “simply speculation”?


A fantastic corner 3-pt shooter, that was often times a liability on offense with his lack of handles and poor FT shooting...and yes I agree that AJ was one-dimensional. Did you need read my previous post as to why I agree AJ's jersey should be hung up there?
Because of one shot. Bowen also had championship winning stops on Chauncey Billups in game 5 of the 05 finals. Hey, Parker stopped Hamilton from hitting the Game 5 shot. Let’s retire Parker’s number because of that shot and not what he embodied and produced his entire career.
Let’s also retire Horry’s number as well. Hey, he had a whole solid quarter and 2 minutes in Game 5 of the 05 finals AND hit the game winning shot. Oh, sorry, I forgot, it wasn’t the first championship, so it’s worthless.

[doobs]

Bruce Bowen is proof positive that stats are overrated. His impact was huge.

The Spurs had a Big 4, not a Big 3.

[bus driver]

without question. I don't even think it will really be debated within the organization.

+1

[45 bank shot]

no doubt, he deserves it

[howbouthemspurs]

Without Bruce Bowen the spurs would still only have one championship... He deserves to have his jersey retired as much as anyone else. No he didnt have the stats but he is still one of the most valuable player the spurs ever had and no one can deny that. If you dont believe his number should be retired then you dont know basketball at all.

[barbacoataco]

Yes. Bowen should have his # retired.

[rasho8]

hell yeah Bruce belongs up there. Calss and poise and great defense all game every game when he was called upon.

#12 in the Rafters in the next few years.

[Darkwaters]

I remember a few seasons ago we were asking the question, "will Horry get his jersey retired?" The consensus at that time seemed to be, "No, but Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and Bowen all will." Everybody seemed to be ok with that too.

[bigfan]

You can retire Bowen's number right after you retire Mike Mitchell's.

[slick'81]

can the hardcore or older fans tell me about james silas?!?!i wasnt old enough to have watched him play.My pops used to tell me how clutch he was, what is ne ones thoughts?!?!?

[FkLA]

Defense is not in the same category as shooting. Defense is comparable to offense, while shooting is only one aspect of shooting. You would have to equate one aspect of defense, say, boxing out, or fighting through screens, to shooting.
One thing you continue to harp on is that defense is all but a minor part of the game, something equivalent to shooting, or even as ridiculously as making one shot in the NBA finals. It is not. Defense is half the game. Bowen being exceptional on defense is equivalent to someone being exceptional in offense relative to their contributions on the court.

There are also other aspect of defense u know? Shot blocking, rebounding, post-defense, etc...Bowen was great at perimeter defense and everything else that comes with that (fighting through screens). Im not trying to discredit Bowen but there are aspects on defense in which he was nothing special.


And Avery Johnson deserved to have his jersey retired because of one shot?
I am also surprised that after watching more than 1300 games that you can’t see how Bowen’s single coverage of perimeter superstars allow the Spurs not to double team and let the team rotate on defense well while not getting lit up for 40 points a game.

No, re-read my posts...it was not because of one shot. It was first and foremost because he was the general of that first title team, he ran the show. The fact that he made the title-clinching shot and is our all-time leader in assists is even more reason. Do you have any idea how tough it is to win the first one? Ask the Jazz of the late 90s, the Kings of the early 2000s, or even the Mavs of a few yrs ago. All great teams that never won a title.

I am aware of what Bruce brought to the table, it was great defense indeed...but I dont think that warrants his jersey retirement. He was a role player, a very vital one, but a role player nontheless. He played a big role in our titles noone is denying that. But so did Rodman and Kerr for the Bulls and Fisher and Horry for the Lakers, stars need role players and its great when they step up. The role players deserve praise but ultimately what make these championships possible are the stars (MJ, Pipp, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Parker, Manu).I dont see why the Spurs should have such low standards for jersey retirements compared to other teams.


And Shaq and Dirk ate him alive. Besides, Robinson was the one guarding Shaq, and Bowen was the main guy guarding Dirk. The fact that Bowen couldn’t guard Dirk and Howard at the same time meant that the Spurs match up with the Mavs poorly. Shawn Marion can D up on point guards up to PFs, but I am never going to say that he is a great defender because of that. Being versatile and good are two different things. Bowen was versatile AND great.

Shaq was the most dominant big man during that time, Dirk has always been unstoppable...what do u expect Malik to shut them down? No, he didnt because that is pretty much impossible. The best u can hope for is to make those superstars work hard which Malik did. Bowen never stopped Kobe or anyone of his caliber, cause guys like that get their points regardless of who is guarding them. Bruce simply made him work hard.


And yours wasn’t speculation? How is it that yours is fact and mine is “simply speculation”?

Just take a look at the players' whose number the Bulls have retired, I think my speculation has a lot more basis...they dont retire just any players jersey.



Because of one shot. Bowen also had championship winning stops on Chauncey Billups in game 5 of the 05 finals. Hey, Parker stopped Hamilton from hitting the Game 5 shot. Let’s retire Parker’s number because of that shot and not what he embodied and produced his entire career.
Let’s also retire Horry’s number as well. Hey, he had a whole solid quarter and 2 minutes in Game 5 of the 05 finals AND hit the game winning shot. Oh, sorry, I forgot, it wasn’t the first championship, so it’s worthless.

No not because of one shot, I explained this earlier in the post. Your comparisons are completely idiotic.

[FilSpursFan]

Yes they should! Bruce was vital in our championship runs. Without him I don't think we got that last 3...

http://pictopia.com/perl/get_image?provider_id=202&size=550x550_mb&ptp_photo_id=1445182

[jay014]

Without him I don't think we got that last 3...

http://pictopia.com/perl/get_image?provider_id=202&size=550x550_mb&ptp_photo_id=1445182

Bullshit! without any of these 3 we don't win.
http://www.nbaloud.com/images/manu-ginoibili-gregg-popovich-tim-duncan-and-tony-1.jpg

[Spursone]

ABSOLUTELY,

Many out there mention he is a one dimensional player, he mostly is, but he was a KEY player and his defensive skill and intensity put SA on the map. Just think for the last couple of years how many have said - Who will take his place? That in itself is a testimant to his impact on this team. Not to mention his outreach in our community. No offense to Avery, but if Avery get's his, you damn well know Bowen will get his also!

GO SPURS GO! :lobt2:

[Fermixalot]

Guarded Lebron, Kobe, and every other elite scorer, making their lives harder than any other defender would

Guarded Dirk when he gave up nearly 1/2 a foot and nearly helped us pull out that series in 06.

And if you want to say that Avery's shot wins him a spot, then Bruce's block of Billups is enough alone to put him in that category.

Definitely in the rafters. All-Spurs guy, and an All-San Antonio guy. He was great for our community and I hope to hell they bring him back.

[jay014]

No offense to Avery, but if Avery get's his, you damn well know Bowen will get his also!

GO SPURS GO! :lobt2:

Wasn't part of the Spurs plans. Remember Ginobilis press conference. #20 was his 3rd choice. Do enough crying and his # will be retired.

[will_spurs]

Bullshit! without any of these 3 we don't win.

Even without any of these 4...

It looks like Pop is wearing sneakers with 4-inches soles on this pic. Is he really taller than Parker?

[thOOdee]

if avery did than bruce def does!

[barbacoataco]

Whenever I was down on the floor real close it was always Bowen I enjoyed watching the most even over Ginobili and Duncan. The way he could shut down a guy who was hot and change a game' direction. Any of you down-playing Bowen as a great player don't know how basketball works.

Championships are won and lost every year because of having a player like Bowen who can guard the elite Kobe, Lebron type player.

Plus Bowen was a clutch shooter. He always shot over 40% 3pt in the playoffs and hit so many big dagger shots.

Many times 1st Team All Defense. Should have been DOP at least once. The only reason he didn't was that Bowen/Duncan always split the Spurs vote, so neither one ever won.

Bowen, no-brainer jersey retire. Border-line HOF'er. (in a perfect world)

[FkLA]

Bowen a borderline HOFer? Thats ridiculous even in a perfect world.

You guys dont understand, Bowen was a ROLE PLAYER....role players will contribute no doubt and they will play a huge role in teams but ultimately the stars are what make the sucess happen. 2003 we won first and foremost because Tim put us on his back and the last two we won first and foremost because of our Big Three. Bowen was a part of the reason as well, Horry was too, as were a couple of other players. Im not saying Bowen didnt contribute, Im not saying he was irrelevant, but he is far from being the main reason we won.

Horry and Fisher contributed to the Lakers 3-peat just as much as Bowen did to our titles, Rodman/Kerr/Kukoc just as much to the Bulls...guess what players jerseys those teams will retire? None. Just MJ's and Pipp's (which are already retired) and Kobe's and probably Shaq's (who knows with the rift they had though). Spurs need to retire the Big 3's and thats it. I dont hate Bowen, I appreciate what he did....give him a tribute and one to Malik as well but he just doesnt deserve to have his jersey retired.

[barbacoataco]

The Spurs have set a certain standard based on the #'s they've retired. If they had only retired Gervin and DRob then it would be a different standard. Each team gets to choose how they retire #'s. If you look in basketball and baseball there is great difference in how selective teams are. Some only retire the reall all-time HOF type players, but most retire #'s of players who had long careers, won championships as one of the top 3-4 players on champion teams. Bowen meets those criteria.

[YODA]

can the hardcore or older fans tell me about james silas?!?!i wasnt old enough to have watched him play.My pops used to tell me how clutch he was, what is ne ones thoughts?!?!?


Silas was Clutch. I was a kid during his time.Kinda like a Manu in that he never gave up. always trying to the end. His stats dont show much, but he was known for taking big shots.
does he really deserve to have # retired? not really.

Stats alone and its basically TIm Gervin,and David. Cummings, Moore, Mitchell all had decent numbers too.

Yes Bowen was a role players.
Yes Bowen was used little on offence.
Yes If AJ and Elliott are in,,Bowen should be too

To me Bowen is the Bill bate of the cowboys. did all the dirty work that gets so little credit, but wonders in the lockerroom.

I understand the points why people say no, but in my book he is in.

On another note. I wonder how many Spurs players have played over 7 years with the Spurs??? Im sure there is more then this list.
Tim
David
AJ
Sean
Gervin
Moore?
Silas?
Bowen. Something to think about

[FkLA]

Fuck that excuse, re-up that standard than...we're the franchise with the 4th most titles in the league and the 3rd winningnest in terms of percentage. Retiring role players jerseys is a damn joke.

I give AJ a pass for the reasons that I have already mentioned, but if his jersey wasnt up there I wouldnt be whining or anything because he was indeed an average player. Elliott deserves his jersey up there, he was an all-star or borderline all-star for a good portion of his career here. D-Rob and Gervin are no brainers, and Silas and Moore I dont know enough about although I did hear one of them was nothing special. If we continue to use this 'if AJ is up there so should Bowen' logic, in a couple of decades the AT&T Center will have 5-10 role players jerseys up there.

[YODA]

http://nbahoopsonline.com/teams/SanAntonioSpurs/Articles/top20.html

Hoops has him as #15 all time spurs. He is only one on this list who won a championship who has not gotton his number retired.

Tim and Tony and Manu are already locks.

[FkLA]

He still doesnt belong up there.

[jimo2305]

retiring jerseys is a little far fetched..

IMO.. retiring jerseys is one cut below being a HOF'er.. jerseys shouldnt be retired loosely..

[mowgli]

Not to take anything away from Bowen, but he's not that worthy. Parker and Manu, whether they make the HOF or not, deserve the honor -- and even now, I would pause before saying yes for Tony.

Like the poster above implied, it should be very very exclusive.

As for Bowen, think about whether the Lakers would retire Derek Fisher's jersey.

[Chieflion]

Not to take anything away from Bowen, but he's not that worthy. Parker and Manu, whether they make the HOF or not, deserve the honor -- and even now, I would pause before saying yes for Tony.

Like the poster above implied, it should be very very exclusive.

As for Bowen, think about whether the Lakers would retire Derek Fisher's jersey.
I would pause for Manu, not Parker who won the finals mvp in 2007.

[barbacoataco]

this thread id LOL. You're telling me Manu is a ? when Silas and AJ have their # retired?

[gm5k]

this thread id LOL. You're telling me Manu is a ? when Silas and AJ have their # retired?

seriously. I can't believe some of the things being said in this thread. Bruce, Tony, and Manu are all absolute locks. Anyone who's watched the Spurs faithfully through this dynasty should know this.

love it when people say Bowen's "only" good at defense trying to marginalize his worth. well guess what, defense is half of the game(and in the Spurs' case more!) Bowen's value to this dynasty is immeasurable.

[Lackluster]

love it when people say Bowen's "only" good at defense trying to marginalize his worth. well guess what, defense is half of the game(and in the Spurs' case more!) Bowen's value to this dynasty is immeasurable.

exactly! especially on a team who's success is predicated on a culture of defense.

we're not talking about raja bell playing great defense on the suns, or ariza being a great defender for the lakers. these are role players. bruce was a major cog in what the spurs focused on the most night in and night out.

we're talking about a situation paramount to dumars or ben wallace on the pistons. (although dumars was a great offensive talent too i know, but still...).

[gm5k]

we're talking about a situation paramount to dumars or ben wallace

yep. the people that are arguing against his jersey retirement wouldn't even try if Bowen had gotten a DPOY award or 2 like he deserved.

[spursjustice]

Manu will get his jersey retired. There shouldn't even be a debate for that one.

It's understandable that some people don't think Bruce is deserving of a jersey retirement because he was a role player. However, I can't help but think most who don't think Bruce should have his jersey retired make this choice subconsciously because defense is not as glamourous as offense.

Fact shows Bruce was a NBA elite defender - capable of shutting (or at very least) slowing down the Kobe Bryants and Lebron James' of the NBA during the playoffs. He was also a better than average 3pt shooter. How is he just a role player?

One player I like to liken Bruce with is Michael Cooper. He was a role player for the showtime Lakers in the 80s. He helped them to 5 championships. Along the way he collected 5 NBA All-Defensive First Team and 3 NBA All-Defensive Second Team selections. From memory, he also shot the 3 ball pretty well. Despite all that, he's still classified as a role player? I don't know much about the Lakers but their game was revolved around a high octane offense during that time and whether Cooper gets his jersey retired is something I am not interested in.

However, Bruce played for the Spurs for 8 seasons. Of those 8 seasons, the Spurs were an elite defensive team for 7 seasons. Tim Duncan & Bruce Bowen were the mains reasons for this.

Bruce is definitely no Tim Duncan, but he sure is no Jaren Jackson, Malik Rose, Speedy Claxton or Nazr Mohammed. I hope Bruce gets his jersey retired.

[Mark in Austin]

I don't think anybody who dismisses Bowen's defensive presence as something a role-player can do truly understands Spurs basketball.

Bowen set the tone defensively - he was Pop on the floor. Bowen's defensive abilities were what allowed the Spurs to deploy the schemes they did. Without Bowen, it would not have worked. Bruce was the player that allowed the Spurs to transition from a post-post defensive scheme to a post-wing defensive scheme without missing a beat. Do you realize how hard that is?

Tim, Tony, Manu and Bruce were all vital parts of those championship teams - take any one of those players away in a given year and the Spurs would not have won that title. All their jerseys will be in the rafters.

[Mark in Austin]

http://nbahoopsonline.com/teams/SanAntonioSpurs/Articles/top20.html

Hoops has him as #15 all time spurs. He is only one on this list who won a championship who has not gotton his number retired.

Tim and Tony and Manu are already locks.

:lol This statement from that website on Parker:

"Parker is a pass first point guard who is on pace to become the teams all-time leader in assists."

tells me all I need to know about their level of Spurs knowledge.

[sprrs]

Elliott deserves his jersey up there, he was an all-star or borderline all-star for a good portion of his career here.

If we're using accomplishments to justify retiring a jersey, Bowen was a Borderline DPOY three or four years in a row, and is still a perennial all-defense first and second team.

[Nathan Explosion]

Bowen is going to have his jersey retired. We all know it's going to happen. Why is this still an issue 7 pages later?

[jay014]

http://www.beckett.com/images/pgitems/28430801.jpg

[YODA]

Mike Mitchell was the guy I loved as a kid. Guy never got much air time or publicity, but you could always count on him.

Bowen=yes

[bigfan]

http://www.beckett.com/images/pgitems/28430801.jpg

One of the best to ever play for the Spurs. The forgotten ace.

[wijayas]

It fucking better after A.J.'s was retired.

:toast

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Hell freakin YES.

Big 4 FTW. Couldn't have done it with out Bruce.

[Brutalis]

Bowen will be retired. I don't know why this went 7 pages nor care to read it. It'll be in the rafters by 2014 is my guess.

[hsxvvd]

Absolutely worthy.

Duncan, Manu, Bowen and then Parker in my opinion... based on what they have already done.

In a stretch of four/five? titles... there's good reason to lift some jerseys.

[FkLA]

If we're using accomplishments to justify retiring a jersey, Bowen was a Borderline DPOY three or four years in a row, and is still a perennial all-defense first and second team.

Dont even compare Bruce to Elliott...Sean was a very good player on both sides of the ball and dude played on one damn kidney for that 99' run. Thats just a dumb comparison.

And Im not dissing Bowen's defense...its stupid how people here assume I dont understand defense, dont appreciate what he did, or somehow dislike Bowen. None of that shit is true, I know what Bruce did was vital and I appreciate what he did. Which is why like Ive been saying this whole time give him a nice tribute. Jersey retirements however are for the stars that make the sucess possible, not for role players that help these stars out.

Also dont make it seem like Bruce was great at one entire half of the game (defense)...dude was a great perimeter defender no doubt but there are other aspects of defense in which he was nothing special. Also the fact that he was a good corner 3-point shooter does not negate the fact that he was a bad offensive player, sometimes even a liability. Also whats this Big Four crap? Its the Big Three, Bruce always has been and always will be a role player. An important one but a role player nontheless. I like the guy but I will fucken vomit if he gets his jersey retired.


Absolutely worthy.

Duncan, Manu, Bowen and then Parker in my opinion... based on what they have already done.

In a stretch of four/five? titles... there's good reason to lift some jerseys.

Bowen before Parker? Even if it is just now, it is still an idiotic statement. Parker is way more vital to our sucess than Bowen ever was.

[El Jefe]

Also dont make it seem like Bruce was great at one entire half of the game (defense)...dude was a great perimeter defender no doubt but there are other aspects of defense in which he was nothing special.

Que?

What other aspects of defense was he "nothing special?" There is ONE aspect to defense, and that is making the other team score less efficiently than they normally do. At his peak, Bowen could guard 3 positions on the floor (With the right matchup, it was 4 positions,) and universally made them less efficient at scoring by a significant amount. An amount that wins ball games.

People scored less when he was guarding them. Anything else is over thinking (or possibly under thinking) the equation.

[sabar]

Jersey retirements however are for the stars that make the sucess possible, not for role players that help these stars out.

Wrong

/thread

[Mark in Austin]

And Im not dissing Bowen's defense...its stupid how people here assume I dont understand defense, dont appreciate what he did, or somehow dislike Bowen. None of that shit is true, I know what Bruce did was vital and I appreciate what he did. Which is why like Ive been saying this whole time give him a nice tribute. Jersey retirements however are for the stars that make the sucess possible, not for role players that help these stars out.

And yet, you still call him a role player. If Bruce was a role player how come the Spurs have been trying to find his eventual successor for 4 seasons now with no luck? Role players are a dime a dozen - take one out and plug another one in.

In terms of team success and the contributions a player made to it, Bowen is ahead off all the current retired jerseys except Gervin and Robinson.

[Mel_13]

can the hardcore or older fans tell me about james silas?!?!i wasnt old enough to have watched him play.My pops used to tell me how clutch he was, what is ne ones thoughts?!?!?

This is a very good article from 2005 about Silas. Includes quotes from Silas and from coaches and players of his era.

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/2009/07/james-captain-late-silas-commanded.html

Silas offers this scouting report: "Take Sam Cassell and combine him with Baron Davis--the strength and quickness of Davis combined with Sam's ability to get off any kind of shot. I really think that those two guys are closer to the way I played than anybody else that I’ve seen play in the league."

[Mel_13]

...we're the franchise with the 4th most titles in the league and the 3rd winningnest in terms of percentage. Retiring role players jerseys is a damn joke.

The team with most NBA titles disagrees:

http://www.mitchellandness.com/images/products/medium/CELBANRN-20_W.jpg

Many roles players on that banner.

[bugoy]

i say no

[superbigtime]

I think Bruce's number has to be retired since Avery Johnson's is. Avery set the bar pretty low.

[HarlemHeat37]

I'd retire Bowen, even if Avery didn't get retired..what's wrong with some of you?..look at all the defensive teams and DPOY voting..the guy was a top 5 defender in the entire league, and the best perimeter defender in the entire league for most of his time as a Spur..he had a huge part in 3 titles..what else can he do?..

There's just so many things in his favor in this argument..if players get in for strictly offense, then Bowen should get in for strictly defense, especially since we are a defense-first team..

[Solid D]

Over the course of 8 straight seasons (7 as a Spur), Bruce Bowen shared a list with star players decided by the 30 NBA Head Coaches.

2007-08
FIRST TEAM..................SECOND TEAM
Kevin Garnett, Boston.....Shane Battier, Houston
Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers...Chris Paul, New Orleans
Marcus Camby, Denver...Dwight Howard, Orlando
Bruce Bowen, San Antonio...Tayshaun Prince, Detroit
Tim Duncan, San Antonio..Raja Bell, Phoenix

2006-07
FIRST TEAM..................SECOND TEAM
Bruce Bowen, San Antonio..Ben Wallace, Chicago
Tim Duncan, San Antonio..Kirk Hinrich, Chicago
Marcus Camby, Denver.....Jason Kidd, New Jersey
Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers....Tayshaun Prince, Detroit
Raja Bell, Phoenix............Kevin Garnett, Minnesota

2005-06
FIRST TEAM..................SECOND TEAM
Bruce Bowen, San Antonio..Tim Duncan, San Antonio
Ben Wallace, Detroit...........Chauncey Billups, Detroit
Andrei Kirilenko, Utah..........Kevin Garnett, Minnesota
Ron Artest, Indiana.............Marcus Camby, Denver
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers.....Tayshaun Prince, Detroit
Jason Kidd, New Jersey

2004-05
FIRST TEAM..................SECOND TEAM
Ben Wallace, Detroit............Tayshaun Prince, Detroit
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota.....Marcus Camby, Denver
Bruce Bowen, San Antonio..Chauncey Billups, Detroit
Tim Duncan, San Antonio.....Andrei Kirilenko, Utah
Larry Hughes, Washington....Jason Kidd, NJ
.......................................Dwyane Wade, Miami

2003-04
FIRST TEAM..................SECOND TEAM
Ron Artest, Indiana.............Andrei Kirilenko, Utah
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota.....Tim Duncan, San Antonio
Ben Wallace, Detroit...........Theo Ratliff, Portland
Bruce Bowen, San Antonio...Doug Christie, Sacramento
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers.....Jason Kidd, New Jersey

2002-03
FIRST TEAM..................SECOND TEAM
Tim Duncan, San Antonio......Ron Artest, Indiana
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota......Bruce Bowen, San Antonio
Ben Wallace, Detroit............Shaquille O'Neal, L.A. Lakers
Doug Christie, Sacramento....Jason Kidd, New Jersey
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers......Eric Snow, Philadelphia

2001-02
FIRST TEAM..................SECOND TEAM
Tim Duncan, San Antonio......Bruce Bowen, San Antonio
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota......Clifford Robinson, Detroit
Ben Wallace, Detroit............Dikembe Mutombo, Philadelphia
Gary Payton, Seattle...........Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers
Jason Kidd, New Jersey........Doug Christie, Sacamento

2000-01
FIRST TEAM..................SECOND TEAM
Tim Duncan, San Antonio...... Bruce Bowen, Miami
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota......P.J. Brown, Charlotte
Dikembe Mutombo, Phil-Atl....Shaquille O'Neal, L.A. Lakers
Gary Payton, Seattle............Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers
Jason Kidd, Phoenix..............Doug Christie, Sacamento

[jay014]

Avery set the bar pretty low.

According to Ginobili it as fans who supported A.J.

http://www.nba.com/spurs/features/behind_the_numbers.html

[superbigtime]

According to Ginobili it as fans who supported A.J.

http://www.nba.com/spurs/features/behind_the_numbers.html

Huh? Nice article there, but that doesn't have anything to do with Avery's number being retired. There were gobs of fans who disagreed with AJ's number retirement and who still dislike it. I think it was Pop who really pushed for it, and his reasons are not without merit. Anyway, this is getting off topic a bit. I think Bruce is very worthy of having his number up in the rafters, regardless of whether AJ is already up there. In a couple of years. Maybe retire some other numbers first. I'm just saying, if AJ is up there, there is less argument against retiring BB, IMO.

[superbigtime]

Over the course of 8 straight seasons (7 as a Spur), Bruce Bowen shared a list with star players decided by the 30 NBA Head Coaches.

Couldn't help but notice how many times Kobe is on those all defensive teams. yech

[Solid D]

Couldn't help but notice how many times Kobe is on those all defensive teams. yech

Yep...and Tim Duncan and KG are on it every year.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

http://nbahoopsonline.com/teams/SanAntonioSpurs/Articles/top20.html

Hoops has him as #15 all time spurs. He is only one on this list who won a championship who has not gotton his number retired.

Tim and Tony and Manu are already locks.

That site has no No. 16 and spelled it "Colby Deitrick."

Whatever it says can't be taken seriously.

[jay014]

#16 Mike Gale.Combined with Bowen

[arkeen3]

Love Bruce but NO. He was/is a defensive specialist. He was a good three point shooter because he was so poor an offensive player other teams left him alone more often than not. He is not high profile outside of San Antonio but Avery became that with his stint in Dallas. I don't agree that AJ should be so honored and I don't think Bruce should be either. One wrong doesn't justify another.

[Solid D]

Love Bruce but NO. He was/is a defensive specialist. He was a good three point shooter because he was so poor an offensive player other teams left him alone more often than not. He is not high profile outside of San Antonio but Avery became that with his stint in Dallas. I don't agree that AJ should be so honored and I don't think Bruce should be either. One wrong doesn't justify another.

Should a player that averaged 9.4 ppg, 7.4 apg, and 3 rpg and no championships and virtually no profile outside of San Antonio have his Spurs' number retired?

[jay014]

Should a player that averaged 6.5 ppg 3rpg 1.5 apg that rode along for 3 championships. He was a great defender on a great defensive team. To say without Bruce we only have one championship or one less is bullshit. Maybe Detroit doesn't win without Ben Wallace.

What would've happened had the Spurs kept Stephen Jackson? i'm not saying instead of Bowen but starting

[HarlemHeat37]

So you guys really think that players that ONLY play offense should get their numbers retired, but players that only play defense shouldn't?..it really doesn't make any sense when you consider the level of the defensive player we're talking about here..

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Should a player that averaged 6.5 ppg 3rpg 1.5 apg that rode along for 3 championships. He was a great defender on a great defensive team. To say without Bruce we only have one championship or one less is bullshit. Maybe Detroit doesn't win without Ben Wallace.

What would've happened had the Spurs kept Stephen Jackson? i'm not saying instead of Bowen but starting

Rode along? You clearly haven't watched him play. Damn. Without Bruce we don't win in 2005 and 2007.

[jay014]

So you guys really think that players that ONLY play offense should get their numbers retired, but players that only play defense shouldn't?..it really doesn't make any sense when you consider the level of the defensive player we're talking about here..
Defensive players whose jerseys aren't retired

Dennis Rodman Pistons? Back to back defensive player of the year along with nba titles.

Michael Cooper Lakers? Defensive player of the year 5x nba champion

[jay014]

Rode along? I know wrong choice

Without Bruce we don't win in 2005 and 2007.Bullshit! :lobt::lobt: regardless

[sprrs]

Dont even compare Bruce to Elliott...Sean was a very good player on both sides of the ball and dude played on one damn kidney for that 99' run. Thats just a dumb comparison.

You made the comparison not me. I just stated his accomplishments. Which are many. Very many.

[ambchang]

There are also other aspect of defense u know? Shot blocking, rebounding, post-defense, etc...Bowen was great at perimeter defense and everything else that comes with that (fighting through screens). Im not trying to discredit Bowen but there are aspects on defense in which he was nothing special.
Did I ever say that Bowen was great at all aspects of defense? It is simply a ridiculous assumption to say that one person is great at every single aspect of defense. As great as Robinson and Olajuwon was at defense, they were not great at every single aspect of defense.
And I find it curious that you listed the big man aspects of defense when you are evaluating a rail thin 6’7” small forward. That is like saying Tim Duncan is not a good 3 pt shooter, and there are aspects on offense in which Duncan was nothing special at.

No, re-read my posts...it was not because of one shot. It was first and foremost because he was the general of that first title team, he ran the show. The fact that he made the title-clinching shot and is our all-time leader in assists is even more reason. Do you have any idea how tough it is to win the first one? Ask the Jazz of the late 90s, the Kings of the early 2000s, or even the Mavs of a few yrs ago. All great teams that never won a title.
Seriously, I don’t. I would imagine it is very very hard, but I don’t. I would also imagine winning the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th are also very hard. Are you trying to say that winning the 2003, 2005 and 2007 championships are somehow less difficult than the 99 championship?
And why would I ask teams who couldn’t win a championship how hard it is to win a championship? They probably don’t know either.
Finally, you are basically saying that Avery Johnson deserves it because he was the starting point guard. What does that have to do with it? Watch the 99 team, the offense goes through the twin towers. The leadership was shared by Avery Johnson and David Robinson (as captains), Mario Elie brought the fire. To say that Avery Johnson ran the show on the 99 team was misleading at the very least.

I am aware of what Bruce brought to the table, it was great defense indeed...but I dont think that warrants his jersey retirement. He was a role player, a very vital one, but a role player nontheless. He played a big role in our titles noone is denying that. But so did Rodman and Kerr for the Bulls and Fisher and Horry for the Lakers, stars need role players and its great when they step up. The role players deserve praise but ultimately what make these championships possible are the stars (MJ, Pipp, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Parker, Manu).I dont see why the Spurs should have such low standards for jersey retirements compared to other teams.
Avery Johnson was a role player too. Did you mistook him for a superstar?
And saying that players are the same because they are role players is just blind. Take the 2003 team, Stephen Jackson was a role player on that team. Compare him, to say Kevin Willis, who was also a role player. Their contributions were certainly quite different.



Shaq was the most dominant big man during that time, Dirk has always been unstoppable...what do u expect Malik to shut them down? No, he didnt because that is pretty much impossible. The best u can hope for is to make those superstars work hard which Malik did. Bowen never stopped Kobe or anyone of his caliber, cause guys like that get their points regardless of who is guarding them. Bruce simply made him work hard.
Comparing Rose’s defense on Shaq and Dirk to the defense Bowen played on Kobe is simply laughable. Bowen was the primary defender on Kobe Bryant almost every time, Malik, was at best, a bit defender on Shaq and Dirk, and most time as the double teamer.
I took Kobe Bryant's stats vs. Bowen since the 2002-03 season, because they played more head to head games since due to Bowen being on the Spurs and playing each other more during the playoffs.
Kobe Bryant scores 27.2 ppg and shot 42.6%, 6.9 FTA and only 28.6% from 3 pt land against Bowen.

Between 2002 and 2009, Kobe Bryant scored an average of 28.73 points on 45.46% from the field, with 8.78 FTA and 32.5% from 3 pt land. Bryant shot a lower % with less FTA against Bowen, who, from 2002 to at least 2004, was only single covering Bryant, while Bryant scored more points, at a better %, with more FTA against other teams, who mostly double or even triple teams him. And you are trying to argue Bowen defense on Bryant had minimal results and simply made him work hard?


Just take a look at the players' whose number the Bulls have retired, I think my speculation has a lot more basis...they dont retire just any players jersey.
I don’t think the Bulls are retiring Bowen’s numbers either, I don’t think Bowen deserves that.
EDIT: Do you know why Jerry Sloan had his # retired?

No not because of one shot, I explained this earlier in the post. Your comparisons are completely idiotic.
Why is that? You put such ridiculously high value on one shot by Avery Johnson. Why are last minute championship winning defensive plays not important?