Why Do The Spurs Insist On Listing Duncan as a PF?

[ZB 512]

just curious

everyone knows he is a center

[ChumpDumper]

I'll let mookie field this one.

[Parker2112]

If you think about the true centers in the NBA, he actually plays like a PF. He is not relegated to playing the paint...he has game from both wings and a jumper from the top of the key...he's also mobile around the paint. Much more versatile than Shaq, Howard, Yao, Nene, Dampier, Illgauskas, etc.

For all those reasons, I think that's also why he insists on being called a PF (which is why the Spurs list him as such).

Thread closing in 3,2,1...

[ducks]

just curious

everyone knows he is a center

just curious why mav fan post on spur board

[J.T.]

Tim Duncan only plays center because the Spurs have had dick for centers on the roster since Robinson retired.

[duncan228]

The most recent conversation about this. There are lots more if you search.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131546

[z0sa]

Tim Duncan is listed at power forward because Tim wants to be listed at power forward. And whatever Tim wants, happens. In part thanks to Merlin, sure, but he has his own magic at work constantly.

[ZB 512]

If you think about the true centers in the NBA, he actually plays like a PF. He is not relegated to playing the paint...he has game from both wings and a jumper from the top of the key...he's also mobile around the paint. Much more versatile than Shaq, Howard, Yao, Nene, Dampier, Illgauskas, etc.

For all those reasons, I think that's also why he insists on being called a PF (which is why the Spurs list him as such).

Thread closing in 3,2,1...

He plays more like a traditional post than a PF imo, but I see what your saying

thx for answer

[sonic21]

coz Bonner is our starting C

[spursfaninla]

1) duncan can play either position, so he should get to choose.

2) Duncan spends time at both positions as a player, now and over his career.

3) duncan can be Best PF of all time, whereas he (realistically) cant be best C of all time, so it benefits his legacy to be a pf.

Pick, all or some of the above.

[ZB 512]

just curious why mav fan post on spur board

lol best place to get an answer to this question?

[ChumpDumper]

lol best place to get an answer to this question?You should send a private message to mookie2001.

Give him your projected depth chart while you are at it.

[ZB 512]

You should send a private message to mookie2001.

Give him your projected depth chart while you are at it.

ha so friendly. I live in Austin currently and go to quite a few Spurs games every year...Spurs folks are usually more friendly

[ChumpDumper]

mookie is a friend to all who seek knowledge.

[bigdog]

ha so friendly. I live in Austin currently and go to quite a few Spurs games every year...Spurs folks are usually more friendly

It's a joke about mookie2001, because he's been complaining that people keep posting their projected roster for the Spurs this upcoming season.

[024]

there is no PF or center position on the spurs. it's just tim duncan and the bigman that plays next to him. duncan is so great and versatile that he can play next to power forwards like matt bonner to true centers like rasho and david robinson.

[Xevious]

Because Yao would get more votes for the starting C allstar position.

[ZB 512]

1) duncan can play either position, so he should get to choose.

2) Duncan spends time at both positions as a player, now and over his career.

3) duncan can be Best PF of all time, whereas he (realistically) cant be best C of all time, so it benefits his legacy to be a pf.

Pick, all or some of the above.

yea he's certainly one of the greatest posts of all time, whether he's listed at C or PF

are they going to list McDyess as the center next season?

[cornbread]

I've been wondering about this for years. I'm glad somebody finally started a thread about it.

[coyotes_geek]

Because Yao would get more votes for the starting C allstar position.

Winner.

[Knoxxx]

Come on guys, obvious baiting by a "troll", let the thread drop down and die. I know it's hard...

[ZB 512]

Come on guys, obvious baiting by a "troll", let the thread drop down and die. I know it's hard...

LOL so sensitive

it's not a flame man. Either Duncan is one of the greatest PFs of all time or he is one of the greatest Cs of all time, either way he's great.

Ive just always been curious about this, and im getting quite a few good answers here

[ZB 512]

there is no PF or center position on the spurs. it's just tim duncan and the bigman that plays next to him. duncan is so great and versatile that he can play next to power forwards like matt bonner to true centers like rasho and david robinson.

I can understand that. There is often not much difference in positions. It's like people getting hung up on Josh Howard playing "SG" now that we got Marion. Both players are wings in the Mavs' offense with Kidd, whether you want to label them "SG" or "SF".

im just curious why they would prefer Duncan be called a "PF" instead of a "C"...and if the Spurs are going to list McDyess as a C next season because Duncan wants to be called a PF.

[Knoxxx]

LOL so sensitive

it's not a flame man. Either Duncan is one of the greatest PFs of all time or he is one of the greatest Cs of all time, either way he's great.

Ive just always been curious about this, and im getting quite a few good answers here

Now you are insulting our intelligence with an obvious flattery ruse. Get him guys!

(In seriousness, this is a much discussed topic and those don't normally go over well here, good luck).

[ZB 512]

Because Yao would get more votes for the starting C allstar position.

lol good point...wont have to worry about that this next season though

but Duncan was a "PF" before Yao was drafted into the league

[Parker2112]

Come on guys, obvious baiting by a "troll", let the thread drop down and die. I know it's hard...

Spurstalk is full of paranoid thread police. Everyone is a troll these days...

You gotta figure, yeah this topic has been discussed about 150 times, but who the hell is going to go back and search for that shit...I know some of you read every thread every day every week of every month, but this board has taken on quite a few new users lately...why be a dick to newcomers? It's the biggest problem with this board...too many people own the rights

If you've had the discussion in the past, why bother with this new thread? Why not just move along and let others discuss? If it gets moved it gets moved. This is a meeting place to discuss the spurs, is it not? Who the hell wants to be subjected to a dick with a "spurstalk badge" coming along every chance he gets and telling others to dispurse...:wow

[samikeyp]

Because he is one.

[samikeyp]

just curious

everyone knows he is a center

Why, because you say so?

[Knoxxx]

Spurstalk is full of paranoid thread police. Everyone is a troll these days...

You gotta figure, yeah this topic has been discussed about 150 times, but who the hell is going to go back and search for that shit...I know some of you read every thread every day every week of every month, but this board has taken on quite a few new users lately...why be a dick to newcomers? It's the biggest problem with this board...too many people own the rights

If you've had the discussion in the past, why bother with this new thread? Why not just move along and let others discuss? If it gets moved it gets moved. This is a meeting place to discuss the spurs, is it not? Who the hell wants to be subjected to a dick with a "spurstalk badge" coming along every chance he gets and telling others to dispurse...:wow

You should know that was tongue in cheek, I am in 100% agreement on this issue with you. Still this is a BAD thread by even my lenient standards due to the tiredness and redudancy of the topic. Check my S jax thread to see how I have been attacked over that one though. Agree 100%, too many "spurs cops" that need to chill.

[coyotes_geek]

but Duncan was a "PF" before Yao was drafted into the league

That's because David Robinson was a C before Duncan got drafted into the league. So Duncan became the PF next to DRob and when DRob hung it up, Yao was there.

[ZB 512]

Because he is one.

well he's listed at one, so I guess he is one

but Duncan certainly fits the profile of a traditional "center" moreso than a "power forward" imo

look at who he usually guards on defense and look who usually guards him on offense

[samikeyp]

well he's listed at one, so I guess he is one

but Duncan certainly fits the profile of a traditional "center" moreso than a "power forward" imo

look at who he usually guards on defense and look who usually guards him on offense

In your opinion, sure. Doesn't make it fact though...its just that...an opinion.

[ZB 512]

In your opinion, sure. Doesn't make it fact though...its just that...an opinion.

true, it's my opinion. You can have change back on those 2 cents if you want

so who is the Spurs' "center"? McDyess?

[samikeyp]

true, it's my opinion. You can have change back on those 2 cents if you want

so who is the SPurs "center"? McDyess? Bonner? Blair?

If its your opinion...why the whole "everyone knows..." thing?


Bonner was last year. He probably will be this year too as well as Dice.

[Parker2112]

You should know that was tongue in cheek, I am in 100% agreement on this issue with you. Still this is a BAD thread by even my lenient standards due to the tiredness and redudancy of the topic. Check my S jax thread to see how I have been attacked over that one though. Agree 100%, too many "spurs cops" that need to chill.

My bad, last thing I want to do is add to the problem.

I'll start a thread on it :downspin:

[Parker2112]

true, it's my opinion. You can have change back on those 2 cents if you want

so who is the Spurs' "center"? McDyess?

Cause we needed a name?

[Knoxxx]

My bad, last thing I want to do is add to the problem.

I'll start a thread on it :downspin:

Cool, I'll check out of the conversation due to lack of interest. I seriously thought that this thread was a setup though, anyone else?

[coyotes_geek]

so who is the Spurs' "center"? McDyess?

If the Spurs can call Matt Bonner one, they can call McDyess one.

[ZB 512]

If its your opinion...why the whole "everyone knows..." thing?


Bonner was last year. He probably will be this year too as well as Dice.

I exaggerated with the "everyone knows" statement....but yes in my opinion, most people outside of Spurs nation probably look at Duncan as fitting the role moreso of a traditional post than of a power forward...and I doubt there are many people who look at McDyess or Bonner as "centers".

I would start a poll but it might be somewhat slanted...and ive already irritated enough people by starting this thread :)

[ZB 512]

Cool, I'll check out of the conversation due to lack of interest. I seriously thought that this thread was a setup though, anyone else?

lol setup for what?

[ZB 512]

If the Spurs can call Matt Bonner one, they can call McDyess one.

well I would bet you it will be the first time McDyess has been called a "center" since high school

[JGrice02]

It can easily be argued that Dirk is a Small Forward before Duncan is a Center. Both play the Four position in their respective systems but only Duncan has the skill set of a prototypical power forward. There are only a handful of teams that have true centers nowadays. A guy like Duncan is listed at PF while Amare Stoudamire is listed at C but a better term for both would simply be a post player.

[coyotes_geek]

well I would bet you it will be the first time McDyess has been called a "center" since high school

Depends on who you considered to be Detroit's starting center the last couple of years.

[ZB 512]

That's because David Robinson was a C before Duncan got drafted into the league. So Duncan became the PF next to DRob and when DRob hung it up, Yao was there.

yes good point. The Spurs had two centers in the twin towers, but they had to label one of them a "PF". I guess Duncan liked that label so he kept it after DRob retired

[samikeyp]

the Spurs had two centers in the twin towers, but I guess Duncan liked the "power forward" label

No, the Spurs had one center, Robinson, and one power forward, Duncan.

[ZB 512]

No, the Spurs had one center, Robinson, and one power forward, Duncan.

they were called "the twin towers" because they were both centers essentially

if Duncan had been drafted by another team, he would have been labeled a "center"

[samikeyp]

they were called "the twin towers" because they were both centers

Actually no one actually knows why they got that name...including you.

IMO, They were called twin towers because they were of similar height..position was irrelevant.


if Duncan had been drafted by another team, he would have been labeled a "center

proof, please.

[Parker2112]

they were called "the twin towers" because they were both centers essentially

if Duncan had been drafted by another team, he would have been labeled a "center"

Actually, they were both power forwards:nope

[ZB 512]

proof, please.

lol only after you provide proof of YOUR opinion

Neither of us have "proof". Debating is not your thing I take it?

[coyotes_geek]

yes good point. The Spurs had two centers in the twin towers, but they had to label one of them a "PF". I guess Duncan liked that label so he kept it after DRob retired

I truthfully don't think Duncan cares one way or the other. I don't think he cares about anything but championships. I'd say this is more about what the Spurs and the fans want than what Duncan wants.

[coyotes_geek]

Actually, they were both power forwards:nope

Come on. David Robinson was never a power forward. Tim Duncan was never a power forward until he had to play next to David Robinson.

[samikeyp]

lol only after you provide proof of your opinion

Neither of us have "proof". Debating is not your thing, I take it?

I was giving an opinion, its neither right nor wrong so proof isn't necessary.

You stated "if Duncan had been drafted by another team, he would have been labeled a "center" You presented it as fact...facts require proof to back them up.

[samikeyp]

Come on. David Robinson was never a power forward. Tim Duncan was never a power forward until he had to play next to David Robinson.

Duncan has played center and because of that, you say he is a center, Robinson did, on brief occasions, play the power forward so by that same logic, he could be called a power forward.

[ZB 512]

I was giving an opinion, its neither right nor wrong so proof isn't necessary.

You stated "if Duncan had been drafted by another team, he would have been labeled a "center" You presented it as fact...facts require proof to back them up.

lol I never stated anything as fact. Both of us were stating our opinions

I guess I need to put "imo" after every sentence I type when Im having a discussion with you

[coyotes_geek]

Duncan has played center and because of that, you say he is a center, Robinson did, on brief occasions, play the power forward so by that same logic, he could be called a power forward.

Pop could play Tim Duncan at point guard on brief occasions if he wanted to. That doesn't make him one.

[samikeyp]

lol I never stated anything as fact. Both of us were stating our opinions

I guess I need to put "imo" after every sentence I type when Im having a discussion with you

So you say now. :)

[samikeyp]

Pop could play Tim Duncan at point guard on brief occasions if he wanted to. That doesn't make him one.

Exactly.

Just because Duncan can play C and has done so on occasion doesn't make him one.

[Parker2112]

Come on. David Robinson was never a power forward. Tim Duncan was never a power forward until he had to play next to David Robinson.

I agree in theory, but you have to agree that Robinson could move/run the court as well as any PF. He just happened to be 7 foot.

[coyotes_geek]

Exactly.

Just because Duncan can play C and has done so on occasion doesn't make him one.

Duncan has been our center for several years now. That's not just playing the position on occasion. For all practical purposes Duncan has been our full time center since Rasho left. Only we still call him a PF because that's what we like to think of him as. And I'm more than fine with that. It's just a testament to how great a player Duncan is, that he can dominate at either position. There's no need to get defensive here. It's not an insult to call him one, nor is it going to somehow tarnish his legacy. Even if Duncan is a center, he's still going to go down in history as the guy who played the power forward position better than anyone.

[coyotes_geek]

I agree in theory, but you have to agree that Robinson could move/run the court as well as any PF. He just happened to be 7 foot.

David Robinson could run the court as well as any SG. But he was still a center.

[Parker2112]

Now Tony Massenburg, that guy was all center. Same with K. Willis

[samikeyp]

Duncan has been our center for several years now. That's not just playing the position on occasion. For all practical purposes Duncan has been our full time center since Rasho left. Only we still call him a PF because that's what we like to think of him as. And I'm more than fine with that. It's just a testament to how great a player Duncan is, that he can dominate at either position. There's no need to get defensive here. It's not an insult to call him one, nor is it going to somehow tarnish his legacy. Even if Duncan is a center, he's still going to go down in history as the guy who played the power forward position better than anyone.

I'm not being defensive...if you were referring to me, I was having good debate and fun at a Mavs fan expense. :) Dude wants to call himself a PF...who am I to dispute that?

Personally as long as Duncan can help bring some more of these :lobt: :lobt: I could care less what his position is. :toast

[coyotes_geek]

This whole PF/C mess is just the same debate we can have about any number of superstar players. Is Kobe a SG or a SF? Is Wade a PG or a SG? One of the things that makes the great ones great is that they do have a combination of size, skill and athleticism that makes them able to play different positions.

[samikeyp]

This whole PF/C mess is just the same debate we can have about any number of superstar players. Is Kobe a SG or a SF? Is Wade a PG or a SG? One of the things that makes the great ones great is that they do have a combination of size, skill and athleticism that makes them able to play different positions.

I would agree. To me they have morphed into one another so much that it should just be called FC for "front court" much like a DB in football.

[coyotes_geek]

I'm not being defensive...if you were referring to me, I was having good debate and fun at a Mavs fan expense. :) Dude wants to call himself a PF...who am I to dispute that?

Personally as long as Duncan can help bring some more of these :lobt: :lobt: I could care less what his position is. :toast

I meant that there's no reason for Spurs fans to get defensive. Didn't mean to sound like I was referring to you personally. And it is a good debate. :toast

[Parker2112]

One of the things that makes the great ones great is that they do have a combination of size, skill and athleticism that makes them able to play different positions.

Not so much for Willis and TMass

[samikeyp]

I meant that there's no reason for Spurs fans to get defensive. Didn't mean to sound like I was referring to you personally. And it is a good debate. :toast

Plus its fun to mess with Mavs fans. :)

[benefactor]

just curious

everyone knows he is a center
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42309
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45341
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46023
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68753
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79789
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85615
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95036
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130082
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131357

...and that that was just a simple search. Would you like detailed instructions?

[Parker2112]

Anyone know where I can pick up KWillis elbow pads?

[Kori Ellis]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42309
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45341
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46023
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68753
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79789
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85615
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95036
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130082
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131357

...and that that was just a simple search. Would you like detailed instructions?


And these two threads, same subject as this one that were both started in the last few days:
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131546
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131741

One trolling, one not.

This topic has been beaten to death. That's why some people are sick of it and thinking the topic started is just trolling.

The Spurs list Duncan as PF because Duncan wants to be listed at PF. Bottomline.

And Tim doesn't ask for much. So maybe we should all just leave it at that.

[benefactor]

And these two threads, same subject as this one that were both started in the last few days:
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131546
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131741

One trolling, one not.

This topic has been beaten to death. That's why some people are sick of it and thinking the topic started is just trolling.

The Spurs list Duncan as PF because Duncan wants to be listed at PF. Bottomline.

And Tim doesn't ask for much. So maybe we should all just leave it at that.
:tu

[FireDavidStern]

For most teams (unless playing small ball) the real breakdown isn't PG, SG, SF, PF, C its PG, 2 Wings, 2 Bigs, especially from the defensive end. Once you realize this it doesn't really matter what you call someone. Duncan could guard those more mobile 4s like every love to criticize him for not doing, however the team has decide it is better for the team for Duncan to guard the less mobile C as they are less likely to get Duncan in foul trouble letting him stay on the court.

[JustinJDW]

Because he plays like a Power Forward, that is why he is a Power Forward?

I don't understand why Tim Duncan is the only person criticized for being a PF. Garnett is a PF, Dirk is a PF and Gasol is a PF, and nobody complains about them being PF's rather than Centers. So what's the big deal?

[carib]

:tu

Its always a good topic and what other good news is out there to talk about the Spurs, this week or this summer.

[carib]

Anyone know where I can pick up KWillis elbow pads?

or there can be a new thread started on this

[iggypop123]

his career would lose respect if he was considered a C. as a Center he is on the fence as a top 5 center. as a PF he is the best of all time no discussion. im sure he lets the league know never to change it

[ZB 512]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42309
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45341
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46023
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68753
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79789
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85615
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95036
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130082
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131357

...and that that was just a simple search. Would you like detailed instructions?

LOL wow you searched all the way back to 2006...Ok, next time I want to post a question on this board, ill ask your permission mr. message board etiquette guy...sound good?

[ZB 512]

his career would lose respect if he was considered a C. as a Center he is on the fence as a top 5 center. as a PF he is the best of all time no discussion. im sure he lets the league know never to change it

No way he would "lose respect" imo. Like you said, he would be in the discussion as a top 5 center of all time. The center position holds more prestige than probably any other position in the sport.

anyway, like others in this thread have stated, it just shows how great he has been....the fact that he is either the top PF of all time or a top 5 center of all time.

[ZB 512]

Because he plays like a Power Forward, that is why he is a Power Forward?

I don't understand why Tim Duncan is the only person criticized for being a PF. Garnett is a PF, Dirk is a PF and Gasol is a PF, and nobody complains about them being PF's rather than Centers. So what's the big deal?

1. He does not "play like a power forward" imo. He plays like a traditional pivot imo

2. What makes you think someone is "complaining" or "criticizing" him?

3. It's not a big deal

[Biggems]

just curious

everyone knows he is a center

Why do the Mavs insist on listing Dirk as a PF.........

everyone knows he is a 7' vagina....there is nothing power forward about him.

[Biggems]

1. He does not "play like a power forward" imo. He plays like a traditional pivot imo

2. What makes you think someone is "complaining" or "criticizing" him?

3. It's not a big deal

well your opinion is worth about as much as trying to use Monopoly money to buy a new car.

[ZB 512]

Why do the Mavs insist on listing Dirk as a PF.........

everyone knows he is a 7' vagina....there is nothing power forward about him.

Hahahahahah

Ha

so what does it mean if no one player on the Spurs has been able to contain him?

[Biggems]

it means the Spurs arent a bunch of tampons......of course Dirk was aided by the refs giving gift trips to the line all series. On almost half of his trips to the line, there was no actual foul....I mean zero contact by a Spurs player. Then, on several occasions, he was allowed to shove Spurs players out of position from behind without being called for over the back or an offensive foul, while going for rebounds.

of course Mavs fans are in complete denial about this subject matter and will get very bitter, angry, and make me out to be a whiner. The Mavs would have won the series anyway, but it sure made it way easier with the refs taking turns sucking Dirks Donk.

[ZB 512]

it means the Spurs arent a bunch of tampons......of course Dirk was aided by the refs giving gift trips to the line all series. On almost half of his trips to the line, there was no actual foul....I mean zero contact by a Spurs player.


LOL Dirk's FT attempts were as follows:

game 1: 4
game 2: 9 (Spurs win)
game 3: 4
game 4: 5 (Duncan had 18 FT attempts)
game 5: 8

I think biggems needs some tampons

[peskypesky]

Tim is listed as a PF to confuse other teams. This tactic has contributed to their 4 Championships.

[Biggems]

LOL Dirk's FT attempts were as follows:

game 1: 4
game 2: 9 (Spurs win)
game 3: 4
game 4: 5 (Duncan had 18 FT attempts)
game 5: 8

I think biggems needs some tampons

And like I said, on about half of them, he wasn't even touched. just handed the FTs. So you can throw up FT stats. I said he got away with a lot of stuff. It wasn't just the foul shots he took. He got away with over the back on rebounds...that doesnt compute in the FT column. He got away with shoving players out of bounds from behind to secure offensive rebounds and putbacks. Hell, in game 1, he shoved Bowen out of bounds 2-3 times right in front of the refs and no whistle. I am not talking about a little nudge either. Also, I know Bruce can act and overreact to contact, but these were legit shoves. Those no calls hurt, as the Mavs scored on those possessions. BTW, all 3 should have been offensive fouls.

Now, weakening my argument is the fact that Dirk did get whistled for several offensive fouls in the series. In fact, I believe about half of his total fouls in the series were on the offensive end. I dont mind the refs letting little tick tack fouls go....calling those just slows the game down to a crawl and makes it boring to watch. But when the foul is absolutely obvious and happens right in front of the baseline official....blow the damn whistle.

Here Dirk was getting to the line on phantom call after phantom call.......but his teammate Brandon Bass couldnt buy a trip to the foul line in a few of the games....I mean I saw Bass get hammered on many occasions and NO WHISTLE. I guess since he is a roll player, he doesn't get the same calls as Blondie

[spurspokesman]

I see him as both. PF/C wrapped up in one big man named Timmmay.

[sonic21]

just curious

everyone knows he is a center

it's obvious, duncan has a huge ego, he wants to be remembered as the best PF ever and wants to start at the ASG.

:stirpot:

[spursfan09]

Because he's Tim Duncan. If he wants to be called a power forward you call him a power forward. If he wants to be called Shamu you call him Shamu....