Obama/Gates/Police fiasco.... [Archive] - Page 2

sam1617

07-24-2009, 03:19 PM

I don't agree with what Gates thinks.

Not all police are bad.

It was a stupid arrest.

Do you agree that it was a legal arrest though?

The situation should never have happened. Gates overreacted, and then made the stupid mistake of going outside... Common sense, don't go outside with cops. Don't let them inside. Have them stand on your porch, you stand inside your door, with the door open. If they have to come in, let them, but don't follow them outside and yell at them.

If it really was because Gates was black, he could have just gotten the guys name, called the Chief of Police and handled it in a reasonable manner.

Spursmania

07-24-2009, 03:19 PM

That if you behave like a jackass to cops, they will arrest you.

:tu

DarrinS

07-24-2009, 03:20 PM

That if you behave like a jackass to cops, they will arrest you.

I agree. At least, that has been my own personal experience.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this officer, who was hand-picked by a black officer to teach a race profiling class (as in, how NOT to), suddenly turned into a raging hate monger and thought the perfect night cap for a good days' work was to arrest himself a negra.

Marcus Bryant

07-24-2009, 03:21 PM

Do you have examples of self-described conservatives whining about the fascist state?

Fascist is usually the cry of liberals bitching about things like The Patriot Act, e.g. see Countdown with Keith Olbermann

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108089
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2853437&postcount=20

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 03:21 PM

Do you agree that it was a legal arrest though? It was a stupid legal arrest. The ability to make an arrest is not the obligation to make an arrest.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 03:22 PM

I agree. At least, that has been my own personal experience.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this officer, who was hand-picked by a black officer to teach a race profiling class (as in, how NOT to), suddenly turned into a raging hate monger and thought the perfect night cap for a good days' work was to arrest himself a negra.He didn't have to be racist to make a stupid arrest.

Viva Las Espuelas

07-24-2009, 03:22 PM

No, I'm asking YOU why YOU think just leaving was not an option.

BtB has already provided examples of police just leaving in a similar situation.

Tell us all why it was decidedly not an option in this case.
he was leaving and in fact he left his house
http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF

Crookshanks

07-24-2009, 03:23 PM

The police were not wrong in this case. Gates was hostile from the get-go. Officer Crowley asked him to step outside because he didn't know if there was someone else in the house who posed a danger to him. For instance, what if someone had broken in and was standing around the corner with a gun on Gates - and Officer Crowley walks right into a dangerous situation.

Another fact here - the house DID NOT belong to Gates. The house is owned by Harvard and Gates was just the tenant. Gates has an enormous ego and I think he was furious that the white cop didn't recognize him (after all he's a friend of Obama and has been on Oprah) and "dared" to ask him for ID.

Gates started screaming the cop was racist as soon as he opened the door. He was the one who kept screaming at the cops and all the neighbors gathered around that "this is what happens if you're a black man in America".

The whole situation could have been resolved if the Professor had just showed his ID, explained what had happened and thanked Officer Crowley for making sure there WASN'T a burglary in progress - after all, that residence had been broken into before.

mookie2001

07-24-2009, 03:23 PM

Fascist is usually the cry of liberals bitching about things like The Patriot Act,
fuck you

doobs

07-24-2009, 03:23 PM

I agree. At least, that has been my own personal experience.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this officer, who was hand-picked by a black officer to teach a race profiling class (as in, how NOT to), suddenly turned into a raging hate monger and thought the perfect night cap for a good days' work was to arrest himself a negra.

Ah, but who better to racially profile and get away with it than an expert in racial profiling?

D'uh.

DarrinS

07-24-2009, 03:24 PM

So you understand it was an option.

Esfailas insists it was not.

I am asking for an explanation why it was not an option in this case.

See how I am asking him?

Maybe both of these guys just got into a battle of ego's?

Gates was probably being a prick and the officer just trumped him by being a dick himself.

Still don't think it was racial -- probably more of a power trip, by both parties involved. Both thought they were being disrespected by the other.

BacktoBasics

07-24-2009, 03:25 PM

Spursmania

07-24-2009, 03:25 PM

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108089
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2853437&postcount=20

Wow-just Wow. That thread is revealing. To be honest, I thought people were crazy when they would talk about redistribution of wealth and that Obama is a socialist. But daaaammmnnn, they were right, much to my chagrine.

Viva Las Espuelas

07-24-2009, 03:27 PM

and how is this going to affect police officers of america. both how they approach every call, handle them, and how the public's attitude towards them.

Viva Las Espuelas

07-24-2009, 03:27 PM

Someone jump in if I'm wrong but he's not required by law to step outside.
the jackass professor followed him outside.

DarrinS

07-24-2009, 03:28 PM

fuck you

7MaJLbJDuAc

DarrinS

07-24-2009, 03:30 PM

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108089
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2853437&postcount=20

:lmao at the 2nd one.

DarrinS

07-24-2009, 03:31 PM

He didn't have to be racist to make a stupid arrest.

true

Marcus Bryant

07-24-2009, 03:32 PM

and how is this going to affect police officers of america. both how they approach every call, handle them, and how the public's attitude towards them.

Good.

Winehole23

07-24-2009, 03:33 PM

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 03:35 PM

he was leaving and in fact he left his house
http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDFI know.

So what?

The police could still just leave.

sam1617

07-24-2009, 03:36 PM

I know.

So what?

The police could still just leave.

And Gates could have gone inside. Its getting circular now isn't it. Shared blame, but Gates made the biggest mistake, he broke a law, even if it is a vague law.

Marcus Bryant

07-24-2009, 03:36 PM

They'll base whatever they do from now on, on this case and this case only. Without any doubt. What else can they do?

Dr. Gates has emboldened dicks everywhere.

By dismissing the charges against him, so has the Cambridge PD! :lol

Hey, the Constitution applies to "dicks" like Gates and boot licking pussies like Cobra Commander as well.

BacktoBasics

07-24-2009, 03:36 PM

the jackass professor followed him outside.
After he provided ID. Yeah he followed him to give him a sizable piece of his mind. He shouldn't have done that but all the officer had to do was get in car and leave. He chose to stay and allow the situation to worsen.

Viva Las Espuelas

07-24-2009, 03:36 PM

Dr. Gates has emboldened dicks everywhere.

By dismissing the charges against him, so has the Cambridge PD! :lol

black dicks or dicks in general?

and yeah, dismissing the charges was a "bad" move, but disorderly conducts are normally handled that way for first time offenders.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 03:38 PM

The police were not wrong in this case. Gates was hostile from the get-go. Officer Crowley asked him to step outside because he didn't know if there was someone else in the house who posed a danger to him. For instance, what if someone had broken in and was standing around the corner with a gun on Gates - and Officer Crowley walks right into a dangerous situation.Why are you talking about what didn't happen. Thanks for admitting he had to make assumptions anyway.

Another fact here - the house DID NOT belong to Gates. The house is owned by Harvard and Gates was just the tenant. Gates has an enormous ego and I think he was furious that the white cop didn't recognize him (after all he's a friend of Obama and has been on Oprah) and "dared" to ask him for ID.Seriously. When you have a hotel room, don't you call it your room?

Gates started screaming the cop was racist as soon as he opened the door. He was the one who kept screaming at the cops and all the neighbors gathered around that "this is what happens if you're a black man in America".So what? He's a blowhard.

The whole situation could have been resolved if the Professor had just showed his ID, explained what had happened and thanked Officer Crowley for making sure there WASN'T a burglary in progress - after all, that residence had been broken into before.Were the police under the obligation to arrest him exclusive of any other course of action?

Yes or no.

Viva Las Espuelas

07-24-2009, 03:45 PM

I know.

So what?

The police could still just leave.

After he provided ID. Yeah he followed him to give him a sizable piece of his mind. He shouldn't have done that but all the officer had to do was get in car and leave. He chose to stay and allow the situation to worsen.

professor jackass chose to make this worse. do you know that whenever you are reprimanded/stopped/questioned by an officer you are technically arrested and must follow them. he was leaving. he was on the damn sidewalk and professor jackass decided to make a spectacle of himself. the cop warned him. professor jackass ignored him. he was arrested. job well done.

sam1617

07-24-2009, 03:45 PM

Were the police under the obligation to arrest him exclusive of any other course of action?

Yes or no.

No.

Was Gates under any obligation to follow the laws and ordinances of the city that he lives in?

Yes or no.

Winehole23

07-24-2009, 03:48 PM

Hey, the Constitution applies to "dicks" like Gates and boot licking pussies like Cobra Commander as well.Agree 100%. That's where my argument started out.

Self-styled conservatives on this board seem to think being a dick is illegal, when in fact it is neither immoral nor even unethical.

Unless it is accompanied by unruly or dangerous conduct, the mere fact of acting like a dick is free expression, not a crime.

That police tend to overlook this and make arrests based on bad words and hurt feelings, rather than actual complaints of public disorder, shows their contempt for the traditional liberty we are supposed to enjoy, at the very least at our own homes.

Marcus Bryant

07-24-2009, 04:09 PM

Agree 100%. That's where my argument started out.

Self-styled conservatives on this board seem to think being a dick is illegal, when in fact it is neither immoral nor even unethical.

Unless it is accompanied by unruly or dangerous conduct, the mere fact of acting like a dick is free expression, not a crime.

That police tend to overlook this and make arrests based on bad words and hurt feelings, rather than actual complaints of public disorder, shows their contempt for the traditional liberty we are supposed to enjoy, at the very least at our own homes.

And naturally "conservatives" who crow about the end of the Constitution or "America" when the specter of national health care looms are perfectly content to read the Constitution as one which favors the state over the individual, as well as one which protects your rights so long as you worship the state's agents properly. It's no surprise that Yanni and Cobra Commander would fall for the unitary executive theory.

sam1617

07-24-2009, 04:13 PM

And naturally "conservatives" who crow about the end of the Constitution or "America" when the specter of national health care looms are perfectly content to read the Constitution as one which favors the state over the individual, as well as one which protects your rights so long as you worship the state's agents properly. It's no surprise that Yanni and Cobra Commander would fall for the unitary executive theory.

Expecting people to obey established laws created by the community and state they live in, while wanting to avoid creating new, even more controlling laws and programs at the federal level, is bad?

You may be getting confused here, local laws are fine, as long as they don't violate the constitution or federal laws. Federal programs that do things not expressly stated as a power of the federal government by the constitution is bad.

clambake

07-24-2009, 04:16 PM

if you just change the color of his skin, it wouldn't have happened.

just do that and there's not even a call to 911.

hell, the caller said there were 2 black men.

Marcus Bryant

07-24-2009, 04:17 PM

Americans, circa 1776:
"Give me liberty or give me death!"

Americans, circa now:
"Keep your mouth shut and obey the authority."

Stringer_Bell

07-24-2009, 04:17 PM

I can't believe 12 pages of discussion appeared over night. >.>

Can someone tell me why it is so hard for an educated person to understand the the police officer's initial concern over the situation? From reading the police report, I feel that there was nothing strange about the officer's requests. I'm sure there are recorded audio of the 911 call about the two black dudes with backpacks (yea, maybe some racial bias, but who isn't more afraid of 2 black guys with backpacks than 2 white guys loitering outside a house?), and the officer's conversation with Gates. If something wrong was done on the part of the police officer and the OTHER units that responded...it will come to light and justice will be served.

Always cooperate with the police officer, it's simple. The officer told him to stop making a scene, brotha man kept making a scene and got arrested. Yea, maybe it was a little overboard to take him to jail, but INTENT to antagonize the police officer and disturb the peace was there. Like someone else said, job well done to the officer.

I can't wait for Obama and the cop to grab a Blue Moon together and sort this whole mess out. :)

Wild Cobra

07-24-2009, 04:19 PM

hell, the caller said there were 2 black men.
Yes, the driver that dropped him off from the airport had already left by the time the police arrived.

clambake

07-24-2009, 04:19 PM

Viva Las Espuelas

07-24-2009, 04:19 PM

Americans, circa 1776:
"Give me liberty or give me death!"

Americans, circa now:
"Keep your mouth shut and obey the authority."
keeping your mouth shut and not being a jackass are two different things.

doobs

07-24-2009, 04:21 PM

Americans, circa 1776:
"Give me liberty or give me death!"

Americans, circa now:
"Keep your mouth shut and obey the authority."

Or . . . "Don't be a douchebag and follow a cop outside and loudly berate him in public when he's already leaving you alone."

clambake

07-24-2009, 04:21 PM

Yes, the driver that dropped him off from the airport had already left by the time the police arrived.

he already left? :lol

see, if they had been white, there wouldn't have been a call at all.

Winehole23

07-24-2009, 04:21 PM

This country used to be safer for jackasses. I miss it.

Marcus Bryant

07-24-2009, 04:22 PM

Expecting people to obey established laws created by the community and state they live in, while wanting to avoid creating new, even more controlling laws and programs at the federal level, is bad?

You may be getting confused here, local laws are fine, as long as they don't violate the constitution or federal laws. Federal programs that do things not expressly stated as a power of the federal government by the constitution is bad.

Oh, no confusion here.

Wild Cobra

07-24-2009, 04:23 PM

he already left? :lol

see, if they had been white, there wouldn't have been a call at all.
You think?

His door didn't work right, and was actually braking in to his own house. It was suspicious. It was called in. Are you saying that a concerned citizen would ignore what looks like a white man breaking in to a house?

clambake

07-24-2009, 04:25 PM

You think?

His door didn't work right, and was actually braking in to his own house. It was suspicious. It was called in. Are you saying that a concerned citizen would ignore what looks like a white man breaking in to a house?

you know what's suspicious? the call said 2 black men......not one old black man that has to use a cane.

mrsmaalox

07-24-2009, 04:26 PM

Agree 100%. That's where my argument started out.

Self-styled conservatives on this board seem to think being a dick is illegal, when in fact it is neither immoral nor even unethical.

Unless it is accompanied by unruly or dangerous conduct, the mere fact of acting like a dick is free expression, not a crime.

That police tend to overlook this and make arrests based on bad words and hurt feelings, rather than actual complaints of public disorder, shows their contempt for the traditional liberty we are supposed to enjoy, at the very least at our own homes.

True it's not illegal to behave like a dick. So that would make all dick like actions legal, why do we even have cops? My background is not in law enforcement, it's in healthcare. And in my field dangerous conduct is not limited to actual physical behavior. Irrational behavior (beligerence, extreme reactions, etc) are symptoms of an irrational person who might pose a danger to himself or others. We as citizens have a responsibility to behave rationally. Just because it's not in the constitution is not an excuse. Yep it's all judgement calls, good or bad; but is there any real way to get around that?

clambake

07-24-2009, 04:26 PM

i just heard gates interview.........this guy knew the cop was jacking him up.

Oh, Gee!!

07-24-2009, 04:26 PM

you know what's suspicious? the call said 2 black men......not one old black man that has to use a cane.

I'll respond for you, WC. "It coulda been a rifle for all she knew."

clambake

07-24-2009, 04:28 PM

I'll respond for you, WC. "It coulda been a rifle for all she knew."

:lol

Winehole23

07-24-2009, 04:29 PM

Or . . . "Don't be a douchebag and follow a cop outside and loudly berate him in public when he's already leaving you alone."Yeah, Gates blew it.

Silly Profe, thinking he had any right in his own front yard, to continue to criticize cops who investigated him in his own house, based on erroneous information.

sabar

07-24-2009, 04:34 PM

The guy that posted earlier got it right, it was a display of power and a hint of racial superiority, nothing more.

When the dude in the house said 'do you know who I am?' and 'arresting me cause im black' the cop decided to show who really had the power through the arrest. It had nothing to do with him being loud, I bet that comment made the cop think 'oh no you didnt'.

I also find it laughable that you can arrest someone in their own house for anything outside assault/murder/theft, regardless of what law says.

Edit: these threads always remind me of that guy that liked cops searching cars for any reason :lmao

doobs

07-24-2009, 04:35 PM

Yeah, Gates blew it.

Silly Profe, thinking he had any right in his own front yard, to continue to criticize cops who investigated him in his own house, based on erroneous information.

Yeah, "criticize" is a nice way of putting it. Do you now concede that he didn't have to follow the cop outside, and he only did so to scream at him and generally make a scene?

And your front yard is not your castle. Neither is your house. The law applies everywhere. If you break the law, tough shit.

clambake

07-24-2009, 04:35 PM

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 04:36 PM

No.

Was Gates under any obligation to follow the laws and ordinances of the city that he lives in?

Yes or no.No.

There is no obligation to follow laws and ordinances. There are possible consequences if you don't, but that goes back to the officer's discretion.

clambake

07-24-2009, 04:37 PM

Yeah, "criticize" is a nice way of putting it. Do you now concede that he didn't have to follow the cop outside, and he only did so to scream at him and generally make a scene?

And your front yard is not your castle. Neither is your house. The law applies everywhere. If you break the law, tough shit.

wouldn't have happened to a white professor gates.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 04:37 PM

Yeah, Gates blew it.

Silly Profe, thinking he had any right in his own front yard, to continue to criticize cops who investigated him in his own house, based on erroneous information.
1) How was the officer supposed to know the person he viewed through the front door was the rightful resident?

2) If you create a disturbance and draw a crowd and, then, commit acts that could reasonably be construed to be offensive or disturbing to that assembled crowd, you can be arrested for disorderly conduct...even in your own front yard.

Professor Gates should have cooperated with the police, politely demonstrated he was in the house rightfully, let the police satisfy themselves there was nothing untoward occurring, thanked them, and let them go about their business.

So, this asshole is claiming "racial profiling." Would someone please explain to me exactly when that occurred?

I can't wait for the 911 and radio transmission tape to be released. It's going to be pretty embarrassing for Professor Gates.

sam1617

07-24-2009, 04:37 PM

No.

There is no obligation to follow laws and ordinances. There are possible consequences if you don't, but that goes back to the officer's discretion.

Fair enough, we aren't obligated to follow laws. People shouldn't be so damned upset about the consequences of failing to follow those laws :)

Winehole23

07-24-2009, 04:38 PM

True it's not illegal to behave like a dick. So that would make all dick like actions legal, why do we even have cops? My background is not in law enforcement, it's in healthcare. And in my field dangerous conduct is not limited to actual physical behavior. Irrational behavior (beligerence, extreme reactions, etc) are symptoms of an irrational person who might pose a danger to himself or others. We as citizens have a responsibility to behave rationally. Just because it's not in the constitution is not an excuse. Yep it's all judgement calls, good or bad; but is there any real way to get around that?Makes sense to me, but this is not the case here IMO. Getting too abstract is a danger.

Was Mr. Gates, based on your viewing of the video, a danger to himself or others?

Can you point to specific language/actions by Mr Gates that support your view, mrsm?

sabar

07-24-2009, 04:39 PM

The law applies everywhere. If you break the law, tough shit.

Guess the cops better start putting up cameras in my rooms and wiretap all my lines so they can bust me on the hundreds of dollars of software I copy each week in my own house. Plus I might do something outrageous like plant an illegal drug in a small pot, we don't want that.

clambake

07-24-2009, 04:39 PM

1) How was the officer supposed to know the person he viewed through the front door was the rightful resident?

2) If you create a disturbance and draw a crowd and, then, commit acts that could reasonably be construed to be offensive or disturbing to that assembled crowd, you can be arrested for disorderly conduct...even in your own front yard.

Professor Gates should have cooperated with the police, politely demonstrated he was in the house rightfully, let the police satisfy themselves there was nothing untoward occurring, thanked them, and let them go about their business.

So, this asshole is claiming "racial profiling." Would someone please explain to me exactly when that occurred?

I can't wait for the 911 and radio transmission tape to be released. It's going to be pretty embarrassing for Professor Gates.

listen, i think you're too biased to post in this thread.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 04:39 PM

wouldn't have happened to a white professor gates.
Why do you say that?

If a police officer responds to a reported burglary in progress and views a person through the door who a) refuses to identify themselves, b) refuses to meet the officer in a safe environment (outside the house) to discuss the matter, and c) immediately launches into a tirade (over race or anything else), what would you expect the officer to do?

Viva Las Espuelas

07-24-2009, 04:40 PM

i just heard gates interview.........this guy knew the cop was jacking him up.
rapists confirm their innocence.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 04:40 PM

professor jackass chose to make this worse. do you know that whenever you are reprimanded/stopped/questioned by an officer you are technically arrested and must follow them.Really?

Do officers technically read you your rights when that happens?

Are you technically provided an attorney if you ask for one then?

he was leaving. he was on the damn sidewalk and professor jackass decided to make a spectacle of himself. the cop warned him. professor jackass ignored him. he was arrested. job well done.So he could have just continued leaving, right?

That would have been a job better done.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 04:40 PM

listen, i think you're too biased to post in this thread.
Luckily, what you think carries no weight.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 04:41 PM

Why do you say that?

If a police officer responds to a reported burglary in progress and views a person through the door who a) refuses to identify themselves, b) refuses to meet the officer in a safe environment (outside the house) to discuss the matter, and c) immediately launches into a tirade (over race or anything else), what would you expect the officer to do?Why was the inside of his house unsafe?

Was is acoustically unsafe?

sabar

07-24-2009, 04:41 PM

Why do you say that?

If a police officer responds to a reported burglary in progress and views a person through the door who a) refuses to identify themselves, b) refuses to meet the officer in a safe environment (outside the house) to discuss the matter, and c) immediately launches into a tirade (over race or anything else), what would you expect the officer to do?

Maybe I'm silly, but I would expect that if a cop suspected a burglary he would have his gun raised and be forcing the guy to the floor, not walking up and asking questions.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 04:42 PM

Fair enough, we aren't obligated to follow laws. People shouldn't be so damned upset about the consequences of failing to follow those laws :)There were no legal consequences since the charges were dropped.

It was a stupid arrest. :)

Viva Las Espuelas

07-24-2009, 04:43 PM

Really?

Do officers technically read you your rights when that happens?

arrested and in custody are two different things.

clambake

07-24-2009, 04:43 PM

Luckily, what you think carries no weight.

i don't think anyone here is going to forget your position on all things black.

listen, i just think you can't help yourself. it's something you can't control.

it controls you.

just trying to help.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 04:43 PM

There were no legal consequences since the charges were dropped.

It was a stupid arrest. :)
Professor Gates' response to the police was the principle stupidity.

doobs

07-24-2009, 04:43 PM

Guess the cops better start putting up cameras in my rooms and wiretap all my lines so they can bust me on the hundreds of dollars of software I copy each week in my own house. Plus I might do something outrageous like plant an illegal drug in a small pot, we don't want that.

So you don't think the law applies everywhere?

I'm not sure what you're saying.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 04:44 PM

i don't think anyone here is going to forget your position on all things black.
And, what would that be?

listen, i just think you can't help yourself. it's something you can't control.

it controls you.

just trying to help.
So, at what point was Professor Gates racially profiled?

Winehole23

07-24-2009, 04:45 PM

1) How was the officer supposed to know the person he viewed through the front door was the rightful resident?

When Gates finally produced an ID, it should've been all over.

2) If you create a disturbance and draw a crowd and, then, commit acts that could reasonably be construed to be offensive or disturbing to that assembled crowd, you can be arrested for disorderly conduct...even in your own front yard.There's discretion too. Dropped charges suggest the arresting officers made the wrong call, or at the very least, that the charges stood little chance of standing up in court.

Professor Gates should have cooperated with the police, politely demonstrated he was in the house rightfully, let the police satisfy themselves there was nothing untoward occurring, thanked them, and let them go about their business.I can forgive his impoliteness; you and the Cambridge PD it seems, cannot.

Viva Las Espuelas

07-24-2009, 04:49 PM

This country used to be safer for jackasses. I miss it.
that's very apparent

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 04:50 PM

When Gates finally produced an ID, it should've been all over.
Really? Are you aware of the relationship between Gates and his spouse? Why was he breaking into the house? Was there a restraining order against him restricting him from being on that property? Where was the second guy seen breaking into the house?

There were a lot of unanswered questions.

There's discretion too. Dropped charges suggest the arresting officers made the wrong call, or at the very least, that the charges stood little chance of standing up in court.
Dropped charges could also mean political pressure was brought to bear.

I can forgive his impoliteness; you and the Cambridge PD it seems, cannot.
In the opinion of the officer and his peers, Professor Gates' behavior was beyond impolite. It created a disturbance and rose to the level of disorderly conduct.

Winehole23

07-24-2009, 04:53 PM

Ji-cT58rgNc

Viva Las Espuelas

07-24-2009, 04:56 PM

When Gates finally produced an ID, it should've been all over.

it was. professor jackass decided to prolong it. oh and disorderly conducts, especially for first time offenders, are normally dropped. posted it twice, so there's no water in that argument.

Winehole23

07-24-2009, 04:57 PM

Really? Are you aware of the relationship between Gates and his spouse? Why was he breaking into the house? Was there a restraining order against him restricting him from being on that property? Where was the second guy seen breaking into the house?

There were a lot of unanswered questions.You'll have to reveal the underlying crime yourself, Yoni.

Good luck!:hat

Dropped charges could also mean political pressure was brought to bear.Rather than support bona fide charges, Cambridge PD caves to political pressure. What pussies.

In the opinion of the officer and his peers, Professor Gates' behavior was beyond impolite. It created a disturbance and rose to the level of disorderly conduct.Actually, it didn't. The charges were dropped. Mr. Gates is guilty of acting like an ass, nothing more.

clambake

07-24-2009, 04:58 PM

it was. professor jackass decided to prolong it. oh and disorderly conducts, especially for first time offenders, are normally dropped. posted it twice, so there's no water in that argument.

where does it say on the arrest report that these charges are normally dropped?

sabar

07-24-2009, 04:59 PM

So you don't think the law applies everywhere?

I know it doesn't, especially in concerns to personal/private property in which it is your right to deny access to individuals. It is why self-defense doesn't constitute homicide or manslaughter. The law clearly doesn't apply everywhere. Delivering hate speech in my house or slander in my house clearly will never apply.

This doesn't even touch on things that are illegal in your home that shouldn't be on principle (growing weed, violating copyright).

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 05:00 PM

where does it say on the arrest report that these charges are normally dropped?"I explained to Mr. Gates that the charges would be dropped and this this was a completely unnecessary and pointless arrest."

doobs

07-24-2009, 05:01 PM

I know it doesn't, especially in concerns to personal/private property in which it is your right to deny access to individuals. It is why self-defense doesn't constitute homicide or manslaughter. The law clearly doesn't apply everywhere. Delivering hate speech in my house or slander in my house clearly will never apply.

This doesn't even touch on things that are illegal in your home that shouldn't be on principle (growing weed, violating copyright).

You're wrong. The law still applies. Everywhere.

Your right to self-defense, for instance, is enshrined in the law.

sabar

07-24-2009, 05:01 PM

Are people still defending a disorderly conduct charge on your own property?

This is great example of the law not being universal.

DarrinS

07-24-2009, 05:02 PM

Can one become a professor of Anglo-American Studies?

Does such a field even exist?

Winehole23

07-24-2009, 05:03 PM

It's called the English Department. :rollin

DarrinS

07-24-2009, 05:04 PM

It's called the English Department.

Got it. :toast

clambake

07-24-2009, 05:04 PM

Can one become a professor of Anglo-American Studies?

you don't want to do that. conservatives hate college professors.

Viva Las Espuelas

07-24-2009, 05:06 PM

where does it say on the arrest report that these charges are normally dropped?
i never said it was in the report. read it again. i said i posted it twice. i've posted the link to the report numerous times on account of chump's stupidity.

DarrinS

07-24-2009, 05:08 PM

Damn, look at this guy's wiki page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Louis_Gates,_Jr.#Career

He was just waiting for some shit like this to happen to him.

DarrinS

07-24-2009, 05:08 PM

you don't want to do that. conservatives hate college professors.

just the liberal farts profs

mrsmaalox

07-24-2009, 05:12 PM

Makes sense to me, but this is not the case here IMO. Getting too abstract is a danger.

Was Mr. Gates, based on your viewing of the video, a danger to himself or others?

Can you point to specific language/actions by Mr Gates that support your view, mrsm?

I have to honestly say I can't remember all the specifics of the recording. But I do remember vividly the person I was listening with make a comment like "Man that old guy is going all George Jefferson on that cop". Indictment enough I suppose! :lol j/k

But really I mostly based my opinion on a personal experience I had a few years ago. I lived in El Paso until about 15 years ago. I owned a house that had a security system that was malfunctioning and unbeknown to me was calling in to the security company. One evening the security company was called, and supposedly they phoned my house to check up. For whatever reason I wasn't aware of the call, didn't answer and they notified the El Paso PD. 2 officers came to my door explained they recieved a call. I told them I was the home owner and wasn't aware of any problems. They asked for my ID, I tried to hand it thru the door but they insisted I step outside. They asked if I was the only person in the house and I said yes, then they asked "are you sure"? I thought that was kind of ridiculous at the time. I was telling the story to my cousin, an EPPD officer, and made it a point to say I couldn't believe they wanted me to step outside of my own house!! She said "He just wanted to be sure there wasn't anyone standing behind the door holding a gun to your head, making you give all the right answers". Seemed fair enough to me. :) I suppose I could have freaked out about being a hispanic woman being discriminated in my home, but being as I believe in behaving in a rational manner that would have been a bit silly I think. ;)

clambake

07-24-2009, 05:15 PM

I have to honestly say I can't remember all the specifics of the recording. But I do remember vividly the person I was listening with make a comment like "Man that old guy is going all George Jefferson on that cop". Indictment enough I suppose! :lol j/k

But really I mostly based my opinion on a personal experience I had a few years ago. I lived in El Paso until about 15 years ago. I owned a house that had a security system that was malfunctioning and unbeknown to me was calling in to the security company. One evening the security company was called, and supposedly they phoned my house to check up. For whatever reason I wasn't aware of the call, didn't answer and they notified the El Paso PD. 2 officers came to my door explained they recieved a call. I told them I was the home owner and wasn't aware of any problems. They asked for my ID, I tried to hand it thru the door but they insisted I step outside. They asked if I was the only person in the house and I said yes, then they asked "are you sure"? I thought that was kind of ridiculous at the time. I was telling the story to my cousin, an EPPD officer, and made it a point to say I couldn't believe they wanted me to step outside of my own house!! She said "He just wanted to be sure there wasn't anyone standing behind the door holding a gun to your head, making you give all the right answers". Seemed fair enough to me. :) I suppose I could have freaked out about being a hispanic woman being discriminated in my home, but being as I believe in behaving in a rational manner that would have been a bit silly I think. ;)

thats a nice story, but the cop followed gates into his kitchen.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 05:16 PM

thats a nice story, but the cop followed gates into his kitchen.
The acoustically dangerous kitchen.

clambake

07-24-2009, 05:17 PM

:lol

sabar

07-24-2009, 05:20 PM

You're wrong. The law still applies. Everywhere.

Your right to self-defense, for instance, is enshrined in the law.

Self-defense isnot enshrined in law outside of the castle doctrine in some areas. It must be proven in court as a legal defense if you are charged with homicide. It is only a right in theoretical texts. Likewise, homicide and manslaughter have no addendum pertaining to self-defense.

The most you can say is that it is case law. Common law provides for the castle doctrine. I haven't seen a case that determined self-defense as this is a common sense scenario where the law is not universal.

mrsmaalox

07-24-2009, 05:20 PM

thats a nice story, but the cop followed gates into his kitchen.

Yes i know. But I wasn't explaining why the cop did what he did. I was explaining why I had the opinion I expressed.

clambake

07-24-2009, 05:22 PM

Yes i know. But I wasn't explaining why the cop did what he did. I was explaining why I had the opinion I expressed.

you know, i spent a month in el paso one day.

doobs

07-24-2009, 05:24 PM

Self-defense isnot enshrined in law outside of the castle doctrine in some areas. It must be proven in court as a legal defense if you are charged with homicide. It is only a right in theoretical texts. Likewise, homicide and manslaughter have no addendum pertaining to self-defense.

The most you can say is that it is case law. Common law provides for the castle doctrine. I haven't seen a case that determined self-defense as this is a common sense scenario where the law is not universal.

You're not understanding. The law is the law. Whether the law provides for a certain defense of justification or carves out certain exception is a different matter altogether.

Your house is not the United States of Sabar. You are subject to the laws and jurisdiction of---I'm guessing---the United States and the State of Texas.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 05:27 PM

You'll have to reveal the underlying crime yourself, Yoni.

Good luck!:hat
No one said there was a crime.

Rather than support bona fide charges, Cambridge PD caves to political pressure. What pussies.
Pussy prosecutors. Cambridge is a hotbed for liberal pussies.

Actually, it didn't. The charges were dropped. Mr. Gates is guilty of acting like an ass, nothing more.
Sgt. Crowley and his commanders still contend he acted appropriately. I would assume that includes the arrest.

Crookshanks

07-24-2009, 05:40 PM

Well, well, well - the BLACK officer who also responded to the call said Officer Crowley did nothing wrong. It's not just the Cambrige PD who are standing behind Crowley, but Police all across the nation. Of course, the brilliant Robert Gates said it was no surprise that other officers are supporting Crowley because (gasp) the FOP endorsed John McCain.

Bottom line - Obama should've just kept his mouth shut and the story would've died quietly. But he never knows when to shut up - so now we have this huge fiasco.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 05:42 PM

rjv

07-24-2009, 05:42 PM

why did the reporter even feel compelled to ask obama about the incident? would have a white president ever been asked this question?

clambake

07-24-2009, 05:44 PM

Well, well, well - the BLACK officer who also responded to the call said Officer Crowley did nothing wrong. It's not just the Cambrige PD who are standing behind Crowley, but Police all across the nation. Of course, the brilliant Robert Gates said it was no surprise that other officers are supporting Crowley because (gasp) the FOP endorsed John McCain.
you mean cops support cops? what a brilliant observation! are you a detective?

Bottom line - Obama should've just kept his mouth shut and the story would've died quietly. But he never knows when to shut up - so now we have this huge fiasco.
not that huge. wouldn't have happened at all if gates was white.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 05:44 PM

why did the reporter even feel compelled to ask obama about the incident? would have a white president ever been asked this question?
Because the press conference to that point was putting everyone to sleep and she wanted to bait him into a controversy.

Worked.

Crookshanks

07-24-2009, 05:45 PM

why did the reporter even feel compelled to ask obama about the incident? would have a white president ever been asked this question?

Ding ding ding - we have a winner

rjv

07-24-2009, 05:46 PM

actually i think all unions support union members. just take a look at how the baseball players union appeals a suspension whenever a player tests positive for a banned substance. it is just union reflex to always defend its members.

clambake

07-24-2009, 05:46 PM

Ding ding ding - we have a winner

so it is about black or white. thanks for clearing that up.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 05:47 PM

you mean cops support cops? what a brilliant observation! are you a detective?
Black cops don't support racist white cops.

not that huge. wouldn't have happened at all if gates was white.
Well, I doubt a white Harvard professor would have accused the officer of racial profiling but, there's no guarantee he wouldn't have been just as much of an asshole as this Gates guy...and, thus, no guarantee it wouldn't have happened if he was white.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 05:48 PM

Black cops don't support racist white cops.There appears to be no racial motivation to this stupid arrest.

Spursmania

07-24-2009, 05:50 PM

Yes i know. But I wasn't explaining why the cop did what he did. I was explaining why I had the opinion I expressed.

I lived in El Paso for a short stint when I was a prosecutor for the DA's office. I was glad to leave El Paso :lol

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 05:51 PM

There appears to be no racial motivation to this stupid arrest.
I agree.

But, apparently, that position isn't universal. Professor Gates, for instance, disagrees with both you and I.

The question, then, is, did Professor Gates commit disorderly conduct. It's certainly debatable. I think the officer made a compelling argument that he did. His peers support that assertion. Mr. Gates, and others who weren't there, disagree.

clambake

07-24-2009, 05:53 PM

Black cops don't support racist white cops.
like i said yoni, not the thread for you.

Well, I doubt a white Harvard professor would have accused the officer of racial profiling but, there's no guarantee he wouldn't have been just as much of an asshole as this Gates guy...and, thus, no guarantee it wouldn't have happened if he was white.
your right. it would have been more like "let me help you with this door, mr. gates.....thats what you said your name was, right?"

"i can see you're having a hard time walking with that cane, why don't you sit down and relax while i have a look at this door."

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 05:54 PM

I agree.

But, apparently, that position isn't universal. Professor Gates, for instance, disagrees with both you and I.

The question, then, is, did Professor Gates commit disorderly conduct. It's certainly debatable. I think the officer made a compelling argument that he did. His peers support that assertion. Mr. Gates, and others who weren't there, disagree.I think there was no need to arrest Gates. All they had to do was leave.

doobs

07-24-2009, 05:54 PM

Can we all agree, at least, that Obama acted stupidly?

I think we can.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 05:55 PM

like i said yoni, not the thread for you.
You're not making sense.

your right. it would have been more like "let me help you with this door, mr. gates.....thats what you said your name was, right?"

"i can see you're having a hard time walking with that cane, why don't you sit down and relax while i have a look at this door."
Now who's profiling?

Your scenario suggests a cooperative white Professor Gates.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 05:56 PM

Can we all agree, at least, that Obama acted stupidly?

I think we can.
Si, se puede!

MannyIsGod

07-24-2009, 05:59 PM

I think its pretty funny that the only ones bringing up race here are the ones against Gates. No one else in this thread is saying it was racially motivated. Of course they want to paint this as a situation where the race card is being drawn because its obviously not a racist situation.

We agree there was no racial motivation here so you can stop trying to make it an issue of contention.

MannyIsGod

07-24-2009, 05:59 PM

Can we all agree, at least, that Obama acted stupidly?

I think we can.

Yup.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 06:05 PM

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 06:06 PM

They are not posting on this board.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 06:08 PM

They are not posting on this board.
Doesn't mean their making it a race issue isn't a valid point of discussion. In fact, if they hadn't, this incident wouldn't be a topic at all.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 06:09 PM

Doesn't mean their making it a race issue isn't a valid point of discussion. In fact, if they hadn't, this incident wouldn't be a topic at all.So you want to make it a racial issue because some liberals wanted to make it a racial issue.

You're quite a good little follower, aren't you?

clambake

07-24-2009, 06:10 PM

no, if gates had been white, none of this would have happened. none of it.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 06:11 PM

no, if gates had been white, none of this would have happened. none of it.
Again, it depends on if the white Professor was as much of an asshole as Gates.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 06:12 PM

So you want to make it a racial issue because some liberals wanted to make it a racial issue.

You're quite a good little follower, aren't you?
If not for the racial aspect of this incident, raised by Gates and inflamed by Obama, there'd be nothing to discuss.

clambake

07-24-2009, 06:13 PM

Again, it depends on if the white Professor was as much of an asshole as Gates.

you still don't get it. not the thread for you. i know you can't help it.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 06:13 PM

you still don't get it. not the thread for you. i know you can't help it.
It's you that doesn't get it.

rjv

07-24-2009, 06:14 PM

just a question but what exactly did obama say that is causing people to infer he made it a racial issue?

clambake

07-24-2009, 06:15 PM

i know you can't help it.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 06:16 PM

If not for the racial aspect of this incident, raised by Gates and inflamed by Obama, there'd be nothing to discuss.We have been discussing the other issues at length, yourself included.

You are pretty stupid to not know that.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 06:19 PM

just a question but what exactly did obama say that is causing people to infer he made it a racial issue?He explicitly said he didn't know if there was any racial component to this occurrence, but he did start talking about racial profiling in his answer to the question. It was a dumb thing to do since people like Yoni can't wait to pick up a racial argument.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 06:24 PM

He explicitly said he didn't know if there was any racial component to this occurrence, but he did start talking about racial profiling in his answer to the question. It was a dumb thing to do since people like Yoni can't wait to pick up a racial argument.
Again, Gates started the argument and Obama carried it forward on a national scale.

He could have said that since he doesn't know if there was a racial component, it would be stupid to make any statement on what the incident says about race relations.

He could have done that. But, no, he had to discuss the incident in the context of race relations.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 06:27 PM

Again, Gates started the argument and Obama carried it forward on a national scale.Except he didn't. Gates said he was racially profiled. Obama said racial profiling exists. It wasn't an argument.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 06:29 PM

Except he didn't. Gates said he was racially profiled. Obama said racial profiling exists. It wasn't an argument.
Thus validating, implicitly, that Gates' claim was reasonable. He should have never attached the two issues...even if they were asked in the context of the same idiotic question from a reporter.

Nevermind there was nothing, whatsoever, to support the claim Gates was profiled.

rjv

07-24-2009, 06:29 PM

i guess i will have to go and read more fully what he exactly stated

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 06:32 PM

Thus validating, implicitly, that Gates' claim was reasonable.No, you and other idiots inferred that erroneously. That's why it was dumb of Obama to talk about it.

Nevermind there was nothing, whatsoever, to support the claim Gates was profiled.You would prefer to nevermind that it does exist.

xrayzebra

07-24-2009, 06:40 PM

clambake

07-24-2009, 06:45 PM

what are you doing in here, ray?

this ain't a thread about fagz.

rjv

07-24-2009, 06:47 PM

Well I see nothing much ever changes in here. Same dumbass arguments from the
same dumbass liberals.

Obama never wrong, except most of the time he is. You know like his stupid remark:

""And I could have calibrated those words differently.""

How the hell do you calibrate words? Only the lefties know. Special meter I guess.

Yep Obama you sure could have. And you could also apologize in public like you
called the police stupid in public instead of inviting the policeman to the WH for a
beer and apoligizing in private.

But then he is God isn't he? Stupid neighborhood organizer. Always was and always
will be.

truthfully, obama endorses the same neoliberal policies that started with carter and took off with reagan. the minute differences or just what the politicos feed the masses so as to create the mythology we have regarding the current political landscape (i.e., we have a truly dichotomous 2 party system). thus, rather than addressing the need for true reform we continue to argue over the more trivial topics (such as this thread) instead of the meat and potatoes.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 06:55 PM

No, you and other idiots inferred that erroneously. That's why it was dumb of Obama to talk about it.
Nothing to infer.

Thank you, Mr. President. Recently Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. was arrested at his home in Cambridge. What does that incident say to you and what does it say about race relations in America?

Well, I should say at the outset that "Skip" Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. I don't know all the facts. What's been reported, though, is that the guy forgot his keys, jimmied his way to get into the house, there was a report called into the police station that there might be a burglary taking place -- so far, so good, right? I mean, if I was trying to jigger into -- well, I guess this is my house now so -- (laughter) -- it probably wouldn't happen. But let's say my old house in Chicago -- (laughter) -- here I'd get shot. (Laughter.)

But so far, so good. They're reporting -- the police are doing what they should. There's a call, they go investigate what happens. My understanding is at that point Professor Gates is already in his house. The police officer comes in, I'm sure there's some exchange of words, but my understanding is, is that Professor Gates then shows his ID to show that this is his house. And at that point, he gets arrested for disorderly conduct -- charges which are later dropped.

Now, I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that, but I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge Police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home; and number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there is a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact.

As you know, Lynn, when I was in the state legislature in Illinois, we worked on a racial profiling bill because there was indisputable evidence that blacks and Hispanics were being stopped disproportionately. And that is a sign, an example of how, you know, race remains a factor in this society. That doesn't lessen the incredible progress that has been made. I am standing here as testimony to the progress that's been made.

And yet the fact of the matter is, is that this still haunts us. And even when there are honest misunderstandings, the fact that blacks and Hispanics are picked up more frequently and oftentime for no cause casts suspicion even when there is good cause. And that's why I think the more that we're working with local law enforcement to improve policing techniques so that we're eliminating potential bias, the safer everybody is going to be.
He conflated the two topics instead of separating them.

You would prefer to nevermind that it does exist.
It didn't exist in this case and that is the point of discussion.

Marcus Bryant

07-24-2009, 06:58 PM

truthfully, obama endorses the same neoliberal policies that started with carter and took off with reagan. the minute differences or just what the politicos feed the masses so as to create the mythology we have regarding the current political landscape (i.e., we have a truly dichotomous 2 party system). thus, rather than addressing the need for true reform we continue to argue over the more trivial topics (such as this thread) instead of the meat and potatoes.

Yes, both parties are more alike than they are apart. Both are neoprogressive parties, with the Democrat flavor more attuned to multiculturalism and social welfare programs, while the Republican flavor offers traditionalism and an emphasis on the military. The Mommy and Daddy sides of the omniscient, omnipresent American state.

Marcus Bryant

07-24-2009, 06:59 PM

Naturally Yanni would be in favor of an agent of the state showing up at your house, demanding you come outside, and then arresting you if you don't comply.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 06:59 PM

Nothing to infer.

He conflated the two topics instead of separating them.
I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there is a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact.The word "separate" is used to separate racial profiling from this incident. :lol

As I said, it's easy for those who don't care to pay any attention to let their biases lead them to whatever conclusion they wish.

It didn't exist in this case and that is the point of discussion.The point is you didn't get it, so you want to make it about race as much as possible now. You are as bad as Gates.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 07:04 PM

The word "separate" is used to separate racial profiling from this incident. :lol

As I said, it's easy for those who don't care to pay any attention to let their biases lead them to whatever conclusion they wish.

The point is you didn't get it, so you want to make it about race as much as possible now. You are as bad as Gates.
Obama is an idiot for even stepping into the issue. That's the real point...our President is stupid.

Def Rowe

07-24-2009, 07:07 PM

My god, are people here really offended by the Presidents comments? They were completely innocuous.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 07:08 PM

My god, are people here really offended by the Presidents comments? They were completely innocuous.
Tell that to the Cambridge Police Officer he maligned.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 07:11 PM

Tell that to the Cambridge Police Officer he maligned.He said he acted stupidly.

I agree.

It was a stupid arrest.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 07:15 PM

He said he acted stupidly.

I agree.
Obama retracted the statement you're standing by.

It was a stupid arrest.
The only person, present at the scene, that says Gates wasn't being disorderly is Gates. His neighbors are even saying he was being a jackass. But, until they release the tapes, we just won't know how much of an asshole he was being. But, it's quite possible the tapes will reveal behavior that violate Massachusetts statutes regarding disorderly conduct.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 07:25 PM

Obama retracted the statement you're standing by.I have my own statement.

It was a stupid arrest.

The only person, present at the scene, that says Gates wasn't being disorderly is Gates. His neighbors are even saying he was being a jackass. But, until they release the tapes, we just won't know how much of an asshole he was being. But, it's quite possible the tapes will reveal behavior that violate Massachusetts statutes regarding disorderly conduct.I wouldn't doubt that.

They still could have just left.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 07:31 PM

I have my own statement.

It was a stupid arrest.
Just as it was stupid for Obama to make that statement without all the facts, it is equally stupid for you.

I wouldn't doubt that.

They still could have just left.
And, they could have arrested him...which they did.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 07:33 PM

Just as it was stupid for Obama to make that statement without all the facts, it is equally stupid for you.I have the police report. Are you accusing them of leaving something out?

And, they could have arrested him...which they did.Which was stupid.

clambake

07-24-2009, 07:34 PM

so, they arrested a guy when they didn't need to, and made a cop stick around just to watch a guy repair a door?

see yoni, you shouldn't be in these threads.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 07:40 PM

so, they arrested a guy when they didn't need to, and made a cop stick around just to watch a guy repair a door?Because there were still potentially burglars inside and it was dangerous.[/yoni]

clambake

07-24-2009, 07:42 PM

they did a disservice by not continuing the search for the other dangerous black man.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 07:43 PM

they did a disservice by not continuing the search for the other dangerous black man.That's what Yoni says.

clambake

07-24-2009, 07:46 PM

why hasn't yoni volunteered to go search for the other dangerous black man?

is it kinda like the yoni wanting to go to iraq thing?

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 07:51 PM

Well according to the yoni, the police got out of the house because they believed it to be dangerous, but left the homeowner inside to his own devices, only offering to answer questions outside if he chose to follow.

Once the policeman was safely outside he was convinced by the homeowner that the home was safe. It must have been when he said something about his mama.

clambake

07-24-2009, 07:54 PM

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 08:11 PM

Okay, for the slow people on the board.

911 call stated ther were two black males breaking in a house.

Sgt. Crowley responded.

Contacts the complaintant.

Approaches the house.

Sees a black male through the door.

Asks black male to come outside.

Black male refuses.

Officer enters the house and asks for ID.

Black male refuses but, apparently, eventually gives him his Harvard ID during a litany of accusing the officer of racial profiling.

Sometime in here the officer determines there's no burglary, just an asshole of an old man.

Officer is trying to verify the identity by radioing the dispatcher.

Can't hear himself talk so, he starts to go outside.

Asshole follows him, screaming and yelling about how the officer is a racist pig the whole way...says something about his mother.

Officer warns the subject to stop creating a disturbance, listing in the report the elements of disorderly conduct the man is violating, or he will be arrested.

Subject doesn't. Pretty much everyone at the scene says so.

Subject is arrested.

Officer helps the arrested subject get his house secured.

Officer takes him to the station.

Four hours later the charges are dropped and he is released.

What'd I miss? At what point was the officer unreasonable?

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 08:15 PM

What'd I miss?You contradicted your earlier assertion that the officer left the house because it was dangerous.

You know, the shit you made up.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 08:15 PM

Black officer at Gates home during arrest said scholar acted strange, supports arrest (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-ap-us-harvard-scholar-arresting-officer,0,4731766.story)

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (AP) — A black police officer who was at Henry Louis Gates Jr.'s home when the black Harvard scholar was arrested says he fully supports how his white fellow officer handled the situation.

Sgt. Leon Lashley says Gates was probably tired and surprised when Sgt. James Crowley demanded identification from him as officers investigated a report of a burglary. Lashley says Gates' reaction to Crowley was "a little bit stranger than it should have been."

Asked if Gates should have been arrested, Lashley said supported Crowley "100 percent."

Gates has said he was the victim of racial profiling.

mookie2001

07-24-2009, 08:15 PM

Officer enters the house and asks for ID

Subject is arrested.

Officer helps the arrested subject get his house secured

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 08:16 PM

Something that's being overlooked is that this is just another example of racist company Obama keeps.

Gates is in the mold of Jeremiah Wright.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 08:16 PM

So people should now be arrested for acting strange on their porches.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 08:18 PM

You contradicted your earlier assertion that the officer left the house because it was dangerous.

You know, the shit you made up.
The officer has stated he originally wanted Gates out of the house for safety reasons.

I know I said that he wanted to leave the house because of safety reasons, I was wrong. I misspoke. Me being mistaken doesn't change what the officer said, though.

I think my last post pretty much describes the sequence of events though. Unless I missed something or you want to obsess on my earlier mistake.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 08:18 PM

Something that's being overlookedOh no, you are injecting race into the discussion every chance you get.

mookie2001

07-24-2009, 08:19 PM

this has nothing to do with obama

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 08:19 PM

So people should now be arrested for acting strange on their porches.
I think the officer description of "strange" will be more evident once the tapes are heard.

If he supports the arrest 100% it means he believes the elements of the charge were present.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 08:20 PM

this has nothing to do with obama
That would be true if Obama had left the matter alone...but, he's an idiot.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 08:20 PM

The officer has stated he originally wanted Gates out of the house for safety reasons.You THE OFFICER wanted to leave for safety reasons.

I know I said that he wanted to leave the house because of safety reasons, I was wrong. I misspoke. Me being mistaken doesn't change what the officer said, though.Your making shit up makes you worthless on a discussion board.

I think my last post pretty much describes the sequence of events though. Unless I missed something or you want to obsess on my earlier mistake.I only point out that you make shit up because you make shit up so often.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 08:20 PM

Oh no, you are injecting race into the discussion every chance you get.
Well, there's a pattern and, if it weren't for the racial elements of this story, there wouldn't be a story.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 08:22 PM

Well, there's a pattern.Yes, there is a pattern of your attempting to make just about every political issue about race on some level.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 08:23 PM

You THE OFFICER wanted to leave for safety reasons.
The officer has said, in interviews, that when he arrived at the scene and observed the subject in the house, he asked him to step outside because he didn't know what was going on in the house and he was concerned for his safety.

You're not following the story very closely.

Your making shit up makes you worthless on a discussion board.

I only point out that you make shit up because you make shit up so often.
Let me know when you reach High School.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 08:24 PM

Yes, there is a pattern of your attempting to make just about every political issue about race on some level.
This story is about race. Professor Gates and President Obama made it so. If it weren't for the racial element, we wouldn't be talking about it at all.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 08:25 PM

The officer has said, in interviews, that when he arrived at the scene and observed the subject in the house, he asked him to step outside because he didn't know what was going on in the house and he was concerned for his safety.

You're not following the story very closely.Actually I followed your story more closely than you wanted.

Sorry your made up shit sucks, dude.

Let me know when you reach High School.Let me know when you stop making shit up.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 08:27 PM

This story is about race.And boy you are all over it, aren't you.

To such an extent that you will make up shit to try to make a point that has nothing to do with race.

mookie2001

07-24-2009, 08:28 PM

obama learned all that shit in the madrasa he went to

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 08:36 PM

And boy you are all over it, aren't you.
Because I was told this would be a post-racial presidency and it's been anything but.

To such an extent that you will make up shit to try to make a point that has nothing to do with race.
I didn't make it up, I was wrong. The record clearly disputes what I said. I've said I was wrong, I've corrected it here...what more do you want?

Further, the next time anyone claims I never admit when I'm wrong, you can shut the fuck up.

The fact remains, Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct and, until we have a clear picture of how bad was his conduct, neither of us can say, for certain, the arrest was or wasn't warranted.

What I can say, however, is that everyone at the scene, cop, non-cop, black, white or yellow (with the glaring example of Gates) says he was belligerent, or otherwise exhibiting behavior seemingly not congruent with the incident.

Having been in that environment on many, many occassions, with white, black, hispanic, and vietnamese assholes...I can see where the officer made the right call.

Now, you can go on and make this argument about what I did or didn't say or, you can get back to the incident...your choice.

hope4dopes

07-24-2009, 09:16 PM

Obama is a racist. What a surprise, and nominated another racist to the supreme court. The whole fiasco was embraced by the white house for one simple reason...it knocked the story that obamacare was being exposed as bullshit and that democrats were jumping ship. It gave the whitehouse time to regroup repackage,and strong arm the apostates without to much light being shined upon them.Red Herring.

Marcus Bryant

07-24-2009, 09:43 PM

Leave it to Yanni to find a way to make a black man out to be guilty, dangerous, communist, uncouth, and devoid of any civil rights. Your shit is boring and predictable, Bull Connor. GTFO.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 10:03 PM

You guys should really start a "Yonivore is a prick" thread and have at it.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 10:13 PM

Because I was told this would be a post-racial presidency and it's been anything but.

I didn't make it up, I was wrong. The record clearly disputes what I said. I've said I was wrong, I've corrected it here...what more do you want?

Further, the next time anyone claims I never admit when I'm wrong, you can shut the fuck up.

The fact remains, Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct and, until we have a clear picture of how bad was his conduct, neither of us can say, for certain, the arrest was or wasn't warranted.

What I can say, however, is that everyone at the scene, cop, non-cop, black, white or yellow (with the glaring example of Gates) says he was belligerent, or otherwise exhibiting behavior seemingly not congruent with the incident.

Having been in that environment on many, many occassions, with white, black, hispanic, and vietnamese assholes...I can see where the officer made the right call.

Now, you can go on and make this argument about what I did or didn't say or, you can get back to the incident...your choice.I already did. You just never did anything to prove me wrong so you just started being wrong about dangerous acoustic kitchens.

There was no real reason to arrest Gates. They should have just left.

You have done nothing to show why he should have been arrested, cuffed, booked, and jailed for any amount of time.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 10:18 PM

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 10:26 PM

Seriously, if he was yelling "These cops are awesome --especially the white guy! I would like to thank his mama!" from the porch at the same volume for the same amount of time, would they have arrested, transported, booked and jailed him?
I'm waiting for the release of the tapes. I'm betting his conduct met the elements for the crime for which he was arrested.

Neither of us will know until we hear it for ourselves...but, again, everyone else at the scene -- other police officers included -- tend to agree he was acting in a manner that did not match the circumstances and that it was belligerent and over the top.

I don't think you and I are going to advance the argument either way from here.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 10:28 PM

I'm waiting for the release of the tapes. I'm betting his conduct met the elements for the crime for which he was arrested.So what if it did? The police didn't have to arrest, cuff, transport, book and jail him. Nothing good came from it.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 10:36 PM

So what if it did? The police didn't have to arrest, cuff, transport, book and jail him. Nothing good came from it.
The incident ended and peace was restored to the neighborhood. That's good.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 10:37 PM

The incident ended. That's good.It could have ended with no arrest had they just left.

That would have been better.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 10:38 PM

It could have ended with no arrest had they just left.

That would have been better.
The officer -- now supported by other officers on the scene -- decided otherwise.

You weren't there.

And, you don't know what might have happened if he hadn't been arrested. Unreasonable people do unreasonable things that sometime result in unexpected consequences.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 10:42 PM

The officer -- now supported by other officers on the scene -- decided otherwise.

You weren't there.

And, you don't know what might have happened if he hadn't been arrested. Unreasonable people do unreasonable things that sometime result in unexpected consequences.Right, The disabled old man could have gone nuts and killed everyone.

An old man is yelling from his porch.

He must be stopped at all costs.

It's a matter of survival.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 10:50 PM

Right, The disabled old man could have gone nuts and killed everyone.

An old man is yelling from his porch.

He must be stopped at all costs.

It's a matter of survival.
Well, counter to your hyperbolizing, he was merely charged with disorderly conduct -- a crime that could be committed without going nuts and killing everyone and not necessarily a matter of survival.

I'm not sure what you believe about law and order but, not every arrest is made on the premise it is preventing all out carnage. Sometimes, people breech the peace and, in doing so, they commit a crime known as disorderly conduct. This officer -- supported by others at the scene -- made a judgment to arrest Professor Gates for that crime.

Reasonable people disagree on whether or not the arrest was warranted. Ultimately, charges were dropped. However, no one (except Gates) is accusing the officer of exceeding his authority, making a false arrest, or anything else of an ethical or criminal nature.

You obviously disagree with the arrest. I don't think either of us have enough information on which to make that judgment; however, other police officers at the scene agree with the Sgt. and believe the arrest was justified.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 10:53 PM

Further, if Gates weren't a personal friend of the President's; hadn't made the ludicrous allegation of racial profiling; and, had the president not stepped into the fray uninformed, making idiotic statements about the actions of the police -- we wouldn't be talking about this at all.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 10:56 PM

Well, counter to your hyperbolizing, he was merely charged with disorderly conduct -- a crime that could be committed without going nuts and killing everyone and not necessarily a matter of survival.But you were saying it was such a dangerous situation that no one could tell what could happen unless he was stopped.

I'm not sure what you believe about law and order but, not every arrest is made on the premise it is preventing all out carnage. Sometimes, people breech the peace and, in doing so, they commit a crime known as disorderly conduct. This officer -- supported by others at the scene -- made a judgment to arrest Professor Gates for that crime.Of course they did. Everyone could have died according to you.

Reasonable people disagree on whether or not the arrest was warranted. Ultimately, charges were dropped. However, no one (except Gates) is accusing the officer of exceeding his authority, making a false arrest, or anything else of an ethical or criminal nature.He shouldn't have been arrested.

You obviously disagree with the arrest. I don't think either of us have enough information on which to make that judgment; however, other police officers at the scene agree with the Sgt. and believe the arrest was justified.You obviously agree with the arrest. You took the police side because they said so and you thought everyone was going to die.

If you don't want your hyperbole thrown back at you, don't use it yourself.

Seriously, what would have happened had they not arrested him?

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 10:58 PM

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 11:02 PM

But you were saying it was such a dangerous situation that no one could tell what could happen unless he was stopped.
No, I didn't. I said the potential was there that, being an unreasonable person acting unreasonably, there was a chance of an unfortunate consequence.

Of course they did. Everyone could have died according to you.
Nope. Never said that either.

He shouldn't have been arrested.
You disagree, perfectly reasonable. None of the trained, certified, qualified, and informed police officers on the scene agree with you. You'll forgive me if I don't give your opinion much weight.

You obviously agree with the arrest. You took the police side because they said so...
Yep, none of them have any reason to lie about the circumstances.

...and you thought everyone was going to die.
Nope; never said that.

If you don't want your hyperbole thrown back at you, don't use it yourself.
Who's making stuff up now? I never said anything about everyone dying.

Seriously, what would have happened had they not arrested him?
Seriously, neither you nor I know. The police officer making the arrest, and others on the scene agree, decided the arrest was the proper course of action. Who are we to second guess them?

I do know that, as a result of the arrest, the nonsense stopped and no one was harmed.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 11:04 PM

Had he not been arrested, we wouldn't be talking about this at all.
We wouldn't be talking about this even if he had been arrested but, decided not to make it a race issue and had the president not insinuated himself into the argument.

Trust me, there were a bunch of people arrested for disorderly conduct that day. His only made the news because of who he was and what he alleged...the president inflamed the issue with his stupid remark.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 11:07 PM

No, I didn't. I said the potential was there that, being an unreasonable person acting unreasonably, there was a chance of an unfortunate consequence.What unfortunate consequence? Spit it out.

You disagree, perfectly reasonable. None of the trained, certified, qualified, and informed police officers on the scene agree with you. You'll forgive me if I don't give your opinion much weight.I woiuld never expect a cop to admit fault or voluntarily curtail his or her ability to arrest people. Forgive me if I know you could never consider anything like that.

Yep, none of them have any reason to lie about the circumstances.Then why did you accuse them of lying in their report?

I do know that, as a result of the arrest, the nonsense stopped and no one was harmed.So now there was the threat of harm?

Funny, that's not in the report. I guess you can call the police liars again if you want to argue there was a chance of harm.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 11:08 PM

We wouldn't be talking about this even if he had been arrested but, decided not to make it a race issue and had the president not insinuated himself into the argument.

Trust me, there were a bunch of people arrested for disorderly conduct that day. His only made the news because of who he was and what he alleged...the president inflamed the issue with his stupid remark.Trust me, had they not arrested him we wouldn't be talking about it.

And no one would have been harmed.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 11:11 PM

What unfortunate consequence? Spit it out.
I have no idea. Maybe nothing...maybe something very unfortunate.

I woiuld never expect a cop to admit fault or voluntarily curtail his or her ability to arrest people. Forgive me if I know you could never consider anything like that.
I don't hear anyone demanding the officer be charged with false arrest.

Then why did you accuse them of lying in their report?
Okay, what else did I get wrong?

So now there was the threat of harm?
There's always the threat of harm when people are acting unreasonable in a highly emotionally charged situation. Sure.

Funny, that's not in the report. I guess you can call the police liars again if you want to argue there was a chance of harm.
They don't normally report things that didn't happen.

Marcus Bryant

07-24-2009, 11:14 PM

Right, The disabled old man could have gone nuts and killed everyone.

An old man is yelling from his porch.

He must be stopped at all costs.

It's a matter of survival.

And the reason he was agitated was because a cop showed up on his property and was ordering him around. It's amusing how Yanni likes to pretend that Gates was just flipping out on his own. Actually, quite amusing considering that in any other similar scenario not involving a black man (who Yanni is scared of) and the current president, Yanni would be pontificating on the Texas castle doctrine, the importance of our constitutional liberties, and the components of his gun cabinet.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 11:16 PM

I have no idea. Maybe nothing...maybe something very unfortunate.Maybe what?

Spit it out.

I don't hear anyone demanding the officer be charged with false arrest.Quality straw man construction.

Okay, what else did I get wrong?You made up the fears of the policemen. Completely made them up. More than once.

There's always the threat of harm when people are acting unreasonable in a highly emotionally charged situation. Sure.Like what?

They don't normally report things that didn't happen.They would have reported if they thought he was a threat to anyone.

They didn't. You are making that up.

Marcus Bryant

07-24-2009, 11:19 PM

Remember the old man who flipped out and shot a couple of illegals who robbed his neighbor's house in Houston a year or so ago? I don't believe Yanni was that dismissive of his civil rights...and that was his neighbor's house. Of course, it was two browns that old man bagged, so he was just a law abiding citizen. Shoot a darkie, you're a hero. Yell at a cop while being black on your property and you're a criminal.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 11:19 PM

And the reason he was agitated was because a cop showed up on his property and was ordering him around.
The officer responded to a burglary in progress call and observed a person in the house. How was he to know if the person was there legitimately or not?

It's amusing how Yanni likes to pretend that Gates was just flipping out on his own.
The man refused to come out of the house and, initially, refused to identify himself. This officer was merely trying to determine whether or not a crime was being committed and Professor Gates started the whole interaction in a confrontational manner.

Actually, quite amusing considering that in any other similar scenario not involving a black man (who Yanni is scared of) and the current president, Yanni would be pontificating on the Texas castle doctrine, the importance of our constitutional liberties, and the components of his gun cabinet.
Actually, no. I wouldn't care what race the asshole was. He responded to the officer, merely doing his job, in a manner that inflamed the situation and -- eventually -- led to his arrest.

The guy had a neighbor, concerned for his property, call the police about suspicious activity. The police responded. The Professor met the police with insults and a lack of cooperation. What was his problem? I would think he should be grateful to the neighbor and the police but, instead, he flies off the handle.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 11:20 PM

So far we have a black man standing on his porch yelling.

That's it.

No threat of anything else. No hint of it.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 11:22 PM

The man refused to come out of the house and, initially, refused to identify himself. This officer was merely trying to determine whether or not a crime was being committed and Professor Gates started the whole interaction in a confrontational manner.So what?

He was done.

He should have just left.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 11:23 PM

Maybe what?

Spit it out.
How the hell should I know? I'm not inside that goofballl's head.

Quality straw man construction.
Just merely pointing out that no one is suggesting the arrest wasn't legitimate...just unwarranted.

You made up the fears of the policemen. Completely made them up. More than once.
No, I didn't. Sgt. Crowley stated in interviews that he wanted the man to come outside because he was concerned with his own safety.

Like what?
Again, hell if I know. People have done all sorts of crazy shit -- intentionally and accidentally -- when they're in an unreasonably agitated state.

They would have reported if they thought he was a threat to anyone.

They didn't. You are making that up.
They arrested him instead.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 11:25 PM

So what?

He was done.

He should have just left.
At that point, the contact had just been initiated. So, you're suggesting that Professor Gates behavior should have convinced the officer that everything was just peachy?

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 11:26 PM

So far we have a black man standing on his porch yelling.

That's it.

No threat of anything else. No hint of it.
Again, disorderly conduct doesn't contain an element of threat...that would be a more serious charge.

Marcus Bryant

07-24-2009, 11:28 PM

The officer responded to a burglary in progress call and observed a person in the house. How was he to know if the person was there legitimately or not?

It's probably too much to ask for the cop to explain why he's there. That probably would've diffused the situation to begin with. At a minimum, it should have been obvious that he was talking to an older gentleman instead of a teenager. In any event, once he found out that it was Gates' property, he should've apologized and explained what happened. Ordering people around on their own property isn't conducive to cooperation.

The man refused to come out of the house and, initially, refused to identify himself. This officer was merely trying to determine whether or not a crime was being committed and Professor Gates started the whole interaction in a confrontational manner.

This is the United States of America. You can resist being told to get out of your own damn house by the authorities if you have done nothing wrong. Naturally a bootlicker like you would think you obey the cop.

Actually, no. I wouldn't care what race the asshole was. He responded to the officer, merely doing his job, in a manner that inflamed the situation and -- eventually -- led to his arrest.

The guy had a neighbor, concerned for his property, call the police about suspicious activity. The police responded. The Professor met the police with insults and a lack of cooperation. What was his problem? I would think he should be grateful to the neighbor and the police but, instead, he flies off the handle.

He should be "grateful" because a cop shows up at his house demanding to see his papers? This isn't the former USSR.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 11:28 PM

At that point, the contact had just been initiated. So, you're suggesting that Professor Gates behavior should have convinced the officer that everything was just peachy?Since he left without doing anything else regarding a burglary, he was indeed convinced everything was just peachy.

Unless you are calling him a liar again.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 11:29 PM

Again, disorderly conduct doesn't contain an element of threat...that would be a more serious charge.So all that stuff about getting hurt was something you just made up.

Marcus Bryant

07-24-2009, 11:31 PM

So all that stuff about getting hurt was something you just made up.

Well, he is a black man and they are scary per Yanni's experience.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 11:33 PM

It's probably too much to ask for the cop to explain why he's there. That probably would've diffused the situation to begin with. At a minimum, it should have been obvious that he was talking to an older gentleman instead of a teenager. In any event, once he found out that it was Gates' property, he should've apologized and explained what happened. Ordering people around on their own property isn't conducive to cooperation.
Old people commit burglaries too. And, at the time, the officer had more that the one person he could see to worry about. At the time, he didn't know it was the person's property.

And, why, under any circumstances would the police officer need to apologize for responding to a call and protecting that idiot's property. If anything, Gates needed to apologize for being an insufferable asshole to a man trying to do his job.

This is the United States of America. You can resist being told to get out of your own damn house by the authorities if you have done nothing wrong. Naturally a bootlicker like you would think you obey the cop.
I'll be anxious to hear the tapes to see how that first interaction with Mr. Gates went. This is a guy that just got through breaking into his own house. Is it unreasonable to expect him to think, gee, I guess that could have looked suspicious to the neighbors.

He should be "grateful" because a cop shows up at his house demanding to see his papers? This isn't the former USSR.
He should be grateful the cops responded to a call that his house was being burglarized.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 11:33 PM

How the hell should I know? I'm not inside that goofballl's head.You are claiming to be inside the police officers; heads since you are rewriting their statements for them.

Just merely pointing out that no one is suggesting the arrest wasn't legitimate...just unwarranted.Just making up what other people said again. Nothing new for you.

No, I didn't. Sgt. Crowley stated in interviews that he wanted the man to come outside because he was concerned with his own safety.Wrong, you said the sergeant left the house for safety reasons.

Again, hell if I know. People have done all sorts of crazy shit -- intentionally and accidentally -- when they're in an unreasonably agitated state.The police sure didn't express any such concern. Why are you making uo the assertion they did?

They arrested him instead.Which was stupid.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 11:34 PM

Since he left without doing anything else regarding a burglary, he was indeed convinced everything was just peachy.

Unless you are calling him a liar again.
I've said that it became obvious, during his contact with Mr. Gates, that there was no burglary.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 11:34 PM

So all that stuff about getting hurt was something you just made up.
Nope. Shit happens.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 11:35 PM

I've said that it became obvious, during his contact with Mr. Gates, that there was no burglary.So he was done and could have just left.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 11:36 PM

Nope. Shit happens.Yes, you made it up. None of the cops were worried about that. You tried to make them out to be scared and incompetent.

Marcus Bryant

07-24-2009, 11:39 PM

Old people commit burglaries too. And, at the time, the officer had more that the one person he could see to worry about. At the time, he didn't know it was the person's property.

Odds are that if the guy inside is telling the cop to get off his property, it is his property. The initial report was about two teenagers breaking in, anyways. A cop shows up at my house and tells me to get out, without a warrant, without anything and I'm supposed to thank him? Fuck that, this is the land of the free.

And, why, under any circumstances would the police officer need to apologize for responding to a call and protecting that idiot's property. If anything, Gates needed to apologize for being an insufferable asshole to a man trying to do his job.

I guess you're right. Why should the police ever have to apologize to an inferior negro? Seriously, a cop just ordered a homeowner out of his house, arrested him, and then found out that, hey, that was actually the homeowner. If you can't figure out why a cop should apologize for that you are a greater idiot than you already appear.

I'll be anxious to hear the tapes to see how that first interaction with Mr. Gates went. This is a guy that just got through breaking into his own house. Is it unreasonable to expect him to think, gee, I guess that could have looked suspicious to the neighbors.

He should be grateful the cops responded to a call that his house was being burglarized.

LOL. What twisted stupid fucking logic. That's like you saying we should be glad that Bush gave us the Iraq fiasco because it was based on faulty evidence which he believed was real...oh, wait.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 11:40 PM

You are claiming to be inside the police officers; heads since you are rewriting their statements for them.
No, I'm not...just listening to what they're saying.

Just making up what other people said again. Nothing new for you.
So, was it a false arrest?

Wrong, you said the sergeant left the house for safety reasons.
And, I've already admitted I was wrong. But, the Sgt. did state that he initially wanted the man to come out of the house for safety reasons.

The police sure didn't express any such concern. Why are you making uo the assertion they did?
Show me where I say they make that assertion. I made that assertion based on long career in law enforcement and emergency medicine. Unreasonable people do unreasonable things that sometime lead to unfortunate consequences. Arresting him for disorderly conduct precluded that possibility.

I don't know if anything would have happened.

Which was stupid.
In your stupid, uninformed, Obama-like opinion.

Marcus Bryant

07-24-2009, 11:45 PM

It's amusing how we are to be credulous, sycophantic worshipers of the state when it's military or law enforcement action, but otherwise we're supposed to be scared when the Congress votes for yet another social welfare program (unless it was one rammed through the Congress by Our Lord, Our Savior, George W. Christ).

We get it, Yanni. You hate black people.

ChumpDumper

07-24-2009, 11:45 PM

No, I'm not...just listening to what they're saying.What are they saying. Where is the link saying they feared someone would get hurt.

So, was it a false arrest?So, is that a straw man?

And, I've already admitted I was wrong. But, the Sgt. did state that he initially wanted the man to come out of the house for safety reasons.You already said you were wrong. That second sentence doesn't make you right.

Show me where I say they make that assertion. I made that assertion based on long career in law enforcement and emergency medicine. Unreasonable people do unreasonable things that sometime lead to unfortunate consequences. Arresting him for disorderly conduct precluded that possibility.There you go making up their minds for them. I don't know why you are calling them liars after your long career in law enforcement.

I don't know if anything would have happened.You say you know exactly what they think and say they are lying when they don't say what you say they are thinking.

In your stupid, uninformed, Obama-like opinion.How many old men yelling from their porches did you jail for disorderly conduct in your long career in law enforcement?

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 11:48 PM

Odds are that if the guy inside is telling the cop to get off his property, it is his property.
There's also the possibility there was a burglar, out of view, holding a gun on Professor Gates telling him to tell the cops to get off his property.

You have the luxury of never having been faced with the uncertainty of rolling up on a possible crime and having to make split-second decisions on what the fuck is going on.

The initial report was about two teenagers breaking in, anyways.
I've never seen the term "teenager" used. The reports I saw, were either two men or two black men. And, as an officer arriving at the scene, wouldn't it be nice to know where the other guy is or even if the guy you're looking at is one of the guys? Hell, for all the officer knew, Professor Gates just got home and was unaware that someone had broken into his house -- maybe there were two guys in there with him.

A cop shows up at my house and tells me to get out, without a warrant, without anything and I'm supposed to thank him? Fuck that, this is the land of the free.
Again, I'm willing to bet there is a whole lot more to the conversation that took place while Sgt. Crowley was outside and Professor Gates was inside than is being reported.

You should give your address to the local police and ask them not to respond to any property crimes. God forbid a concerned neighbor try to save you from losing your worldly possessions and you have to convince the police -- who don't know who the fuck you are -- that you're in the house rightfully.

I guess you're right. Why should the police ever have to apologize to an inferior negro? Seriously, a cop just ordered a homeowner out of his house, arrested him, and then found out that, hey, that was actually the homeowner. If you can't figure out why a cop should apologize for that you are a greater idiot than you already appear.
They knew he was the home (renter) before they arrested him and it had nothing to do with the original call or him being black...at least, according to the black officer on the scene.

That's quite a big chip on your shoulder.

LOL. What twisted stupid fucking logic. That's like you saying we should be glad that Bush gave us the Iraq fiasco because it was based on faulty evidence which he believed was real...oh, wait.
Bad analogy. I guess you just couldn't get through the thread without invoking Bush hatred.

He should be grateful...He should have been grateful before he wigged out and got himself arrested.

Winehole23

07-24-2009, 11:49 PM

Yeah, "criticize" is a nice way of putting it. Do you now concede that he didn't have to follow the cop outside...I did so hours ago. Maybe you didn't notice.

... and he only did so to scream at him and generally make a scene?Tough shit for the cops. They made a mistake. Can't they take a little shit when they make an honest mistake? I guess not.

Apparently there's a compelling state interest in regulating our civility in our own front yards, when the police investigate faulty complaints against us.

And your front yard is not your castle. Neither is your house. That's news to me. I thought LE was unwelcome to monitor our behavior at home once they determine there's no criminal activity underway, and no other outstanding complaint. My bad, doobs.:rolleyes

The law applies everywhere. If you break the law, tough shit.Gates didn't break the law. The charges didn't stick. The police didn't need to arrest him and they admitted it afterward.

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 11:50 PM

Yonivore

07-24-2009, 11:59 PM

What are they saying. Where is the link saying they feared someone would get hurt.
Crowley Disappointed Obama 'Waded Into Local Issue' (http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/20154182/detail.html)

Crowley said when he first encountered Gates on the day of the arrest, he asked Gates to step outside of the home because a witness reported seeing more than one person trying to gain access to the home and that he feared for his safety.

"I have to go home at night. I have three beautiful children and a wife who depend on me," Crowley said.

Crowley said that Gates refused to step outside the home, so he then asked Gates if there was anyone else in the home.

"I wanted to know if there was anyone else there. 'Are you there by yourself?'" Crowley said.

The officer said that Gates did not look like a person who would break into a home, but the tone of his voice was "peculiar" as he was responding to Crowley's questions.

So, is that a straw man?
It's called a question.

You already said you were wrong. That second sentence doesn't make you right.
See above.

There you go making up their minds for them. I don't know why you are calling them liars after your long career in law enforcement.
Where do I call them liars?

You say you know exactly what they think and say they are lying when they don't say what you say they are thinking.
No, I don't.

How many old men yelling from their porches did you jail for disorderly conduct in your long career in law enforcement?
A few.

Winehole23

07-25-2009, 12:03 AM

No one said there was a crime.You suggested it. You said *questions* were unanswered. Marital status, restraining orders. All things easily checkable within a few minutes by LE. Why were you wondering about them?

To establish an LE state of mind easily dispelled in a few minutes by checking Dr. Gates *rap sheet*, perhaps?

Basically, you argued that the PD's completely speculative (and easily checkable) concerns about Gates might justify their treating him like a criminal in his own home. Weak.

Sgt. Crowley and his commanders still contend he acted appropriately. I would assume that includes the arrest.Why would he say anything else?

The decision to dismiss rings truer to my ear than any faint protestations of propriety after admitting the the arrest was *completely unnecessary.*

ChumpDumper

07-25-2009, 12:05 AM

Crowley Disappointed Obama 'Waded Into Local Issue' (http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/20154182/detail.html)Too bad we were talking about the arrest for disorderly conduct. He never said he was afraid for his children when the old man was on the porch yelling.

It's called a question.So was mine.

See above.Yes, I saw you were wrong above.

Where do I call them liars?When you say they feared someone would get hurt because a man was on his porch yelling.

No, I don't.Of course you don't, but you claimed you did.

A few.Really?

How many. Tell us about them.

Did you work as a deputy or a policeman or a constable?

Yonivore

07-25-2009, 12:10 AM

Too bad we were talking about the arrest for disorderly conduct.
I wasn't.

So was mine.
Yeah, I know. I answered..."It's called a question." Remember? << Another question.

Yes, I saw you were wrong above.
No, I wasn't.

When you say they feared someone would get hurt because a man was on his porch yelling.
I never put those words in their mouths. I suggested that unreasonable people do unreasonable things that sometime lead to unfortunate consequences. That's my opinion. I don't know if it occurred to the officers there or not. However, I'm betting it crossed at least one of their minds.

Of course you don't, but you claimed you did.
No, I didn't.

Really?

How many. Tell us about them.
Nah, not into war story-telling.

Did you work as a deputy or a policeman or a constable?
Yes. One of those.

ChumpDumper

07-25-2009, 12:16 AM

I wasn't.Not my problem you can follow the argument.

Yeah, I know. I answered..."It's called a question." Remember? << Another question.The only person who has brought up false arrest is you. No one ever said anything about false arrest. You are making up other people's arguments now.

No, I wasn't.You just said you were wrong, so you were wrong or you were wrong about being wrong. Either way you were wrong.

I never put those words in their mouths. I suggested that unreasonable people do unreasonable things that sometime lead to unfortunate consequences. That's my opinion. I don't know if it occurred to the officers there or not. However, I'm betting it crossed at least one of their minds.Except no one said that at all.

No, I didn't.Yes you did.

Nah, not into war story-telling.So it's safe to assume you never actually arrested and old man for yelling on his porch after you mistook him for a burglar in his own house.

Yonivore

07-25-2009, 12:22 AM

Not my problem you can follow the argument.
I'm following it fine, thanks.

The only person who has brought up false arrest is you. No one ever said anything about false arrest. You are making up other people's arguments now.
I wonder if you believe the officer is guilty of making a false arrest.

You just said you were wrong, so you were wrong or you were wrong about being wrong. Either way you were wrong.
Nope, you're wrong again.

Except no one said that at all.
And, I never claimed they did.

Yes you did.
Show me where.

So it's safe to assume you never actually arrested and old man for yelling on his porch after you mistook him for a burglar in his own house.
No, I don't recall every arresting a person for disorderly conduct after responding to their house for a burglary in progress call. But, I did arrest a 60 some-odd year old for disorderly conduct after responding to his house after he called the police and complained that his son was stealing from him. Does that qualify? Is that close enough?

ChumpDumper

07-25-2009, 12:28 AM

I'm following it fine, thanks.No, you aren't. No one questioned that he had to make assumptions when he first entered the home. You think he was afraid for his children when the old man was on the porch yelling.

I wonder if you believe the officer is guilty of making a false arrest.Since in have said that the arrest was legal, what don't you understand about my belief here?

Nope, you're wrong again.Seriously, you said you were wrong. So you were wrong.

And, I never claimed they did.You explicitly said at least one of them thought that.

Show me where.Read your own posts.

No, I don't recall every arresting a person for disorderly conduct after responding to their house for a burglary in progress call. But, I did arrest a 60 some-odd year old for disorderly conduct after responding to his house after he called the police and complained that his son was stealing from him. Does that qualify? Is that close enough?So what was he doing that warranted your decisive police action?

Yonivore

07-25-2009, 12:38 AM

No, you aren't. No one questioned that he had to make assumptions when he first entered the home. You think he was afraid for his children when the old man was on the porch yelling.
No, I don't.

Since in have said that the arrest was legal, what don't you understand about my belief here?
Sorry, I don't hang on your every word. I didn't recall. So we merely disagree on whether or not the arrest was warranted. I'm cool with that.

Your suggesting that Gates was arrested for merely yelling from his porch doesn't indicate you agree the arrest was legal, though. Because, merely yelling from your porch doesn't rise to the level of disorderly conduct.

Seriously, you said you were wrong. So you were wrong.
I was wrong about Sgt. Crowley wanting to leave the house for reasons of safety but not about Sgt. Crowley initially wanting Professor Gates to come out of the house for reasons of safety.

Clear that up for you?

You explicitly said at least one of them thought that.
Show me and I'll retract it. I'm saying now that unreasonable people (which it sounds like Professor Gates was) do unreasonable things (which certainly didn't appear to be beyond the realm of possibilities) that sometime result in unfortunate consequences. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the officers wasn't considering that possibility with this raving lunatic but, if I "explicitly" said one of them thought that, I take it back. I have no way of know what anyone at that house was thinking.

Read your won posts.
I wrote them and I don't recall putting words or thoughts in anyone's head. You're making the accusation I did.

So what was he doing that warranted your decisive police action?
He was acting like a lunatic, drawing a crowd of neighbors and attempting to incite them against the us (because we weren't resolving his issue to his satisfaction) and he led me to believe he would continue to breach the peace after we left. So, I arrested him...on his front porch...for disorderly conduct.

ChumpDumper

07-25-2009, 12:46 AM

No, I don't.Yes you do. Everyone was going to die.

Sorry, I don't hang on your every word. I didn't recall. So we merely disagree on whether or not the arrest was warranted. I'm cool with that.No one claimed it was a false arrest. It was a straw man you made up.

Your suggesting that Gates was arrested for merely yelling from his porch doesn't indicate you agree the arrest was legal, though. Because, merely yelling from your porch doesn't rise to the level of disorderly conduct.But that's all he did according to the police report.

I was wrong

Clear that up for you?I was always clear that you were wrong.

Show me and I'll retract it. I'm saying now that unreasonable people (which it sounds like Professor Gates was) do unreasonable things (which certainly didn't appear to be beyond the realm of possibilities) that sometime result in unfortunate consequences. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the officers wasn't considering that possibility with this raving lunatic but, if I "explicitly" said one of them thought that, I take it back. I have no way of know what anyone at that house was thinking.Thanks for finally admitting that. Don't pretend to in the future.

He was acting like a lunatic, drawing a crowd of neighbors and attempting to incite them against the us (because we weren't resolving his issue to his satisfaction) and he led me to believe he would continue to breach the peace after we left. So, I arrested him...on his front porch...for disorderly conduct.How did he attempt to "incite" them against you?

Yonivore

07-25-2009, 12:55 AM

Yes you do. Everyone was going to die.
Never said that.

No one claimed it was a false arrest. It was a straw man you made up.
Based on your arguments I thought you believed it was a false arrest. I, later, pointed asked the question. You've answered it. I agree that we merely disagree on whether or not the officer's decision to make a legal arrest was the right or wrong decisions. Again, I'm good with that...you and I disagree on a whole lot of stuff.

But that's all he did according to the police report.
No, it's not. The officer specifically mentions the elements of disorderly conduct on which he based the arrest. I think "tumultuous behavior" is one element he was sure to put in the report.

I was always clear that you were wrong.
Yeah, you were just wrong about what we were discussing at the time. That's cool.

Thanks for finally admitting that. Don't pretend to in the future.
I didn't admit anything...pony up the evidence I did what you said. I want to see the post.

How did he attempt to "incite" them against you?Not relevant to the discussion. Go get a career in law enforcement and accrue your own stories.

He was arrested, convicted, and paid a fine.

ChumpDumper

07-25-2009, 01:01 AM

No, it's not. The officer specifically mentions the elements of disorderly conduct on which he based the arrest. I think "tumultuous behavior" is one element he was sure to put in the report.I know he included that because it's in the statue and it looks impressive, but what does that mean specifically? The only thing anyone specifically said he did was yell. That could be part of the tumultuous behavior, or all of the tumultuous behavior.

Yeah, you were just wrong about what we were discussing at the time. That's cool.Except I wasn't. You were the one who got lost.

I didn't admit anything...pony up the evidence I did what you said. I want to see the post.It's in the thread. Knock yourself out.

Not relevant to the discussion. Go get a career in law enforcement and accrue your own storiesSure it is relevant since we are talking about the same charge in this case. Tell us what he did to incite the others against you.[/QUOTE]

Yonivore

07-25-2009, 01:06 AM

I know he included that because it's in the statue and it looks impressive, but what does that mean specifically? The only thing anyone specifically said he did was yell. That could be part of the tumultuous behavior, or all of the tumultuous behavior.
I'm not familiar with Massachusetts law. What we do know is the other police officers on the scene support Sgt. Crowley's decision to arrest Gates for disorderly conduct so, they must think it met the elements of the offense as well.

Except I wasn't. You were the one who got lost.
I don't think so but, you quibble.

It's in the thread. Knock yourself out.
I'm not interested in proving your unsubstantiated allegations. You made them...you prove them.

Sure it is relevant since we are talking about the same charge in this case. Tell us what he did to incite the others against you.
It's no more relevant than any other arrest I've made. The circumstances are all different.

manufan10

07-25-2009, 01:08 AM

:wow

I just read all of the pages.. arguments ran in circles.. :lol

Everyone in the situation acted stupidly. Gates could have been more grateful for the police looking out for his well being. Police for arresting Gates over "disorderly conduct." Obama should have just responded with a "I don't know enough information," and moved on to the next question.

Winehole23

07-25-2009, 01:15 AM

.Except I wasn't. You were the one who got lost.Yoni started out lost. He didn't even read the OP. He's probably only pretending to have read it now. The amount of purely invented detail in his posts is a tell.

Yonivore

07-25-2009, 01:20 AM

Yoni started out lost. He didn't even read the OP. He's probably only pretending to have read it now. The amount of purely invented detail in his posts is a tell.
Nope, I still haven't read any posts prior to my entering the discussion. What detail have I invented?

And, I just got through re-reading the police report a second time.

Sgt. Crowley did advise Mr. Gates why he was there when he initially asked him to step outside.

Sgt. Crowley also warned him twice that he was being disorderly before arresting him.

I think, under the circumstances, Sgt. Crowley demonstrated remarkable restraint.

Winehole23

07-25-2009, 01:22 AM

Everyone in the situation acted stupidly. Gates could have been more grateful for the police looking out for his well being. Police for arresting Gates over "disorderly conduct." Obama should have just responded with a "I don't know enough information," and moved on to the next question.Yep.

Around here, people generally assume if A is wrong, his antagonist B must be correct. This is a fallacy.

As you have just pointed out, manufan10, there is no rule against everybody being wrong. None at all, in fact.

If A and B happen to contradict, the possibility that both are mistaken cannot be ruled out in advance; still less is it certain that one of them must be right. Everybody can be wrong, all at once.

In fact, this is one of the likelier results.

There is a bit of that in this case, though admittedly my own sympathies go to the irate man whom LE treats as a criminal in his own home b/c of an honest mistake. Arresting a man just for being irate about the hassle and the mistake is a bit much IMO.

ChumpDumper

07-25-2009, 01:26 AM

I think, under the circumstances, Sgt. Crowley demonstrated remarkable restraint.In what way? What actions by his that would have shown less restraint were justified in your mind?

And tell me what "tumultuous behavior" occurred in this case besides yelling.

Yonivore

07-25-2009, 01:32 AM

In what way? What actions by his that would have shown less restraint were justified in your mind?
Well, initially, he could have forced Gates to exit the home at gun point. After all, it was still unclear if a crime was being committed.

Nothing in any report, article or even the words of Gates suggest Sgt. Crowley was ever unprofessional, discourteous, or loud himself. Sounds like he kept his cool throughout the ordeal.

Maybe restraint was the wrong word. Composure would be more like it. Under the circumstances, Sgt. Crowley remained remarkably composed.

And tell me what "tumultuous behavior" occurred in this case besides yelling.
I don't know, I wasn't there.

ChumpDumper

07-25-2009, 01:39 AM

Well, initially, he could have forced Gates to exit the home at gun point. After all, it was still unclear if a crime was being committed.:lmao Yes, he showed remarkable restraint not pulling a gun on an old man sitting in a house not robbing it.

Nothing in any report, article or even the words of Gates suggest Sgt. Crowley was ever unprofessional, discourteous, or loud himself. Sounds like he kept his cool throughout the ordeal.That wasn't my question.

Maybe restraint was the wrong word. Composure would be more like it. Under the circumstances, Sgt. Crowley remained remarkably composed.So a loss of compsure would have been justified to you?

I don't know, I wasn't there.You have read the report. You have read the interviews. All the pertinent information for a prosecution would have been in those.

What was the tumultuous behavior if it was something other than yelling?