State of the Economy

[Wild Cobra]

Well, we are still in for a rough ride I think. May's consumer confidence was 49.3, and July dropped to 46.6 (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_ECONOMY?SITE=TXDAM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=HOME.html&CTIME=2009-07-28-11-30-31). Consumer confidence play a big role in recovery. People get tight with unnecessary spending when they are not optimistic of the future. This is one reason why I blame democrats for the mess we are in. Years ago, pundits kept telling us how the economy was bad. That hurts consumer confidence.

http://images.forbes.com/media/2009/03/18/consumer-confidence.gif

We had a declining economy after Y2K. The tech and internet markets bubbles popped. We had 9/11. Republicans and congress gave us a tax cuts, and the economy started to soar again. Then the leftists pundits did all they could to kill consumer confidence, and they finally seceded with help of the housing market bubble popping. Now, with all the record social deficit spending, consumer confidence may never be that same. People realize that social programs, once implemented, don't go away like war time spending.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Misc/CoppockguideSandP500-marked.jpg

Warning... The above is my opinion based on absorbed information and the Forbes article Buying Opportunity Of A Lifetime (http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/18/sentiment-relative-strength-personal-finance-investing-ideas-bear-market.html?feed=rss_personalfinance_guruinsights) .

Anyone else go "Bottom Fishing" in the stock markets? Several experts say the stock markets will return long before the jobs here do. Maybe we will have good consumer confidence in a couple years, but not if Nobama and the demonrats gets their way.

Here's another example:

http://jutiagroup.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/consumer_confidence_index_historical.jpg (http://jutiagroup.com/2009/01/14/is-the-consumer-confident/)

I hope you "Bush Bashers" notice that consumer confidence started dropping a year before president Bush was in office. That's because the recession was not his fault! It was the end of the Y2K scare. Now if leftist pundits didn't continue to lie, saying the economy was bad when we actually had growth and consumer confident, then I wouldn't give president Bush a break. The truth is, the confidence was thwarted. Impossible to say to what degree, but it was. The housing market bubble bursting only affected the idiots who invested for profit. Without the scare of the economy already in progress, I will contend that it would not have cased the panic it did.

Here's an interesting explaination of Consumer Confidence:

What You Should Know about the Consumer Confidence Index (http://stocks.about.com/od/marketnews/a/ConsumIn122804.htm)

[clambake]

bush's bailout is the only competent thing he did.

[Wild Cobra]

bush's bailout is the only competent thing he did.
How can you be a business owner and want to pay higher taxes?

[clambake]

How can you be a business owner and want to pay higher taxes?

you don't realize that it's bush conservatives and giant corps that have kicked you in the balls, all the way to today.

the last thing you should do is jump on bush for the bailouts. he had to. it's the only thing he ever did right.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

i heard on the news that many economists say the recession is almost over or is over.

[ChumpDumper]

with help of the housing market bubble popping.:rollin :rollin :rollin

[Viva Las Espuelas]

you don't realize that it's bush conservatives and giant corps that have kicked you in the balls, all the way to today.

the last thing you should do is jump on bush for the bailouts. he had to. it's the only thing he ever did right.
not an answer to the question in sight.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

actually i would like for clambake to answer that. i always like hearing from people that are going to be affected.

[ElNono]

:blah

The problem with your exposition is that you cloud it with partisan cheerleading. You try to force your hand and opinion instead of letting the readers reach their own conclusions.

[Wild Cobra]

you don't realize that it's bush conservatives and giant corps that have kicked you in the balls, all the way to today.

the last thing you should do is jump on bush for the bailouts. he had to. it's the only thing he ever did right.
I honestly fear the big corporations. Still, the way we regulate them is wrong. I think we should tell them, they cannot buy competitors if it gives them more than a 20% (or some other reasonable number) market share. I say that corporation that grow to 33% (or some other reasonable number) market share, must be broken up, like AT&T was in the past.

This idea of "Too large to fail" is really troublesome to me. I wanted to see this fat-ass companies fall on their knees. There were plenty of smaller companies to take their place, who had practical business models, and didn't get in trouble. The extent of my idea of a bailout was to guarantee financial backing to the companies that did it right, so consumers could still get loans.

I say this was the worse decision president Bush made.

[Wild Cobra]

actually i would like for clambake to answer that. i always like hearing from people that are going to be affected.
I like to also, but because of the nature of his past posts, I think being a business owner, and driving a nice Mercedes is in his dreams, and not reality.

Yes Clam, I could be wrong, and I apologize if I am. I just don't buy it.

[ChumpDumper]

Tell me which pundits derailed the economy and how.

[Wild Cobra]

Tell me which pundits derailed the economy and how.
Were you asleep?

It was everywhere a few years ago. My recall of names and association is not good. Look it up yourself if you want that answer.

[ChumpDumper]

Were you asleep?

It was everywhere a few years ago. My recall of names and association is not good. Look it up yourself if you want that answer.Not good enough.

You made a fucking graph with your contention that pundits ruined the economy, now prove it.

[ElNono]

How can you be a business owner and want to pay higher taxes?

Perhaps higher taxes will improve security in my community, thereby increasing my business's appeal and accessibility...

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I say this was the worse decision president Bush made.i honestly think president bush did this strictly to save face. i don't think he honestly felt it was the right thing to do, but did 'cause obama wanted it. he'd been crapped on for almost both his terms and just wanted to gain some people's "respect" or decrease the hatred towards him. i really don't blame him for feeling that way. he looked very tired towards the end of his presidency.

[ElNono]

i honestly think president bush did this strictly to save face. i don't think he honestly felt it was the right thing to do, but did 'cause obama wanted it. he'd been crapped on for almost both his terms and just wanted to gain some people's "respect" or decrease the hatred towards him. i really don't blame him for feeling that way. he looked very tired towards the end of his presidency.

:rolleyes

Oh please. The reasons are pretty simple. He did it because his party wouldn't have EVER recovered from a complete collapse of the financial system.
There are real world example of what happens to parties when they're part of such a violent collapse.

[ChumpDumper]

i honestly think president bush did this strictly to save face. i don't think he honestly felt it was the right thing to do, but did 'cause obama wanted it. he'd been crapped on for almost both his terms and just wanted to gain some people's "respect" or decrease the hatred towards him. i really don't blame him for feeling that way. he looked very tired towards the end of his presidency.I think his Ayn Rand disciple economic advisers and cabinet members shit their pants and the thought of what would happen if the government did not intervene in a big way and relayed that information to Bush, who acted accordingly.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Perhaps higher taxes will improve security in my community, thereby increasing my business's appeal and accessibility...
taxes improve security?
how do you mean?

[ElNono]

taxes improve security?
how do you mean?

Better funding to the local police?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Better funding to the local police?
???????
so higher taxes on a business owner is good 'cause policemen will be well funded and that, in turn, will bring more business.....

is that what you're saying?

[Wild Cobra]

???????
so higher taxes on a business owner is good 'cause policemen will be well funded and that, in turn, will bring more business.....

is that what you're saying?
It's ElNono's communist mentality. If he wanted to increase local security, he could donate to the police department, enough to hire another police officer, and specify there is always a minimum level of police presence in the community.

Communists and socialists believe in doing things with "other people's money" rather than putting their money where their mouth is.

[ElNono]

???????
so higher taxes on a business owner is good 'cause policemen will be well funded and that, in turn, will bring more business.....

is that what you're saying?

Sure. Better funded police, lower crime, better community, more appeal to businesses. Look no further than 42nd street in New York City for a working example.
It's ONE scenario where it would actually be beneficial for the business owner.
That said, I don't claim it applies to EVERY scenario, but it certainly satisfies the OP's question.

[ChumpDumper]

You're expecting ElNono to donate $40,000 a year to the police?

[ElNono]

It's ElNono's communist mentality. If he wanted to increase local security, he could donate to the police department, enough to hire another police officer, and specify there is always a minimum level of police presence in the community.

Communists and socialists believe in doing things with "other people's money" rather than putting their money where their mouth is.

So you don't expect to receive state services for the taxes you pay??? Why do you pay taxes in the first place?
Why don't you take justice in your own hands, and see how that works out for you?

[Wild Cobra]

So you don't expect to receive state services for the taxes you pay??? Why do you pay taxes in the first place?
Why don't you take justice in your own hands, and see how that works out for you?
No, your assessment assumes that there will be en equal reimbursement to the community by taxes paid. I'm talking about federal tax rates, and you bring up the non sequitur of of community funding.

Please pay attention.

[clambake]

I like to also, but because of the nature of his past posts, I think being a business owner, and driving a nice Mercedes is in his dreams, and not reality.

Yes Clam, I could be wrong, and I apologize if I am. I just don't buy it.

you seem to think that big business runs on profit as opposed to having a factor to answer to.

bush had to bail it out or face catastrophic collapse.

still, the banks aren't doing enough. i'm not sure what obama can do about that. he needs to lean on them with some heavy threats.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Sure. Better funded police, lower crime, better community, more appeal to businesses. Look no further than 42nd street in New York City for a working example.
It's ONE scenario where it would actually be beneficial for the business owner.
That said, I don't claim it applies to EVERY scenario, but it certainly satisfies the OP's question.


hmmm. so businesses don't last in bad neighborhoods?

[Wild Cobra]

you seem to think that big business runs on profit as opposed to having a factor to answer to.
No, I just don't understand how you can support higher taxes under the manner that the feds abuse the money they spend.

bush had to bail it out or face catastrophic collapse.
We disagree.

still, the banks aren't doing enough. i'm not sure what obama can do about that. he needs to lean on them with some heavy threats.
He cannot do shit when he rewards bad behavior. He's making it worse, not better.

What can we do? OK, I'll go for bailout money. But not to reward losing business tactics. Use it to guarantee loans with banks who did not fall on their asses.

[Wild Cobra]

hmmm. so businesses don't last in bad neighborhoods?
LOL...

Go figure. Is that another reason why liberals are not tough on crime?

I swear, just about everything I see, about liberal ideals, are a means to the destruction of this nation.

[ChumpDumper]

LOL...

Conservatives are for bad neighborhoods. Go figure.

[Wild Cobra]

LOL...

Conservatives are for bad neighborhoods. Go figure.
???

How do you extrapolate that? Maxwell, you're twisted.

[clambake]

No, I just don't understand how you can support higher taxes under the manner that the feds abuse the money they spend.
i say you give them some time to stabilize this crisis. you guys owe them that.


We disagree.
because you can't fathom the magnitude of what true financial collapse they averted.


He cannot do shit when he rewards bad behavior. He's making it worse, not better.
bush and obama didn't reward, they rescued. your ass included. you just can't see it.


What can we do? OK, I'll go for bailout money. But not to reward losing business tactics. Use it to guarantee loans with banks who did not fall on their asses.
don't begin to think it's over. the weak will get slaughtered.

[ChumpDumper]

???

How do you extrapolate that? Maxwell, you're twisted.Well, you aren't for making neighborhoods better, so you are for keeping them bad.

[Wild Cobra]

Well, you aren't for making neighborhoods better, so you are for keeping them bad.
Non sequitur.

We are discussing federal spending. Not local spending.

Buy a clue please Maxwell.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

chump, still putting words in people's mouths.

[Yonivore]

chump, still putting words in people's mouths.
That should be his slogan.

"ChumpDumper, building strawmen and putting words in peoples' mouths since 1997." (Start date based on assumed age of 12)

[ChumpDumper]

Non sequitur.

We are discussing federal spending. Not local spending.

Buy a clue please Maxwell.Sorry, you followed him into the police funding discussion. And there have definitely been federal funds spent on hiring new local police.


chump, still putting words in people's mouths.Nah, just showing how people post stupid shit without realizing what it means.

[ChumpDumper]

That should be his slogan.

"ChumpDumper, building strawmen and putting words in peoples' mouths since 1997." (Start date based on assumed age of 12)Yoni, lying his entire life to make up for his lower than average intelligence.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Nah, just showing how people post stupid shit without realizing what it means.
:lmao

only you realize what you mean.
i'd like for you to point out who said "conservatives are for bad neighborhoods".

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao

only you realize what you mean.
i'd like for you to point out who said "conservatives are for bad neighborhoods".Wild Cobra.

And you think businesses can't be hurt by bad neighborhoods.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

i'd like for you to point out who said "conservatives are for bad neighborhoods".


Wild Cobra.


i know that's hard for you to understand being that you never have one, but please quote who said that.



And you think businesses can't be hurt by bad neighborhoods.
did i say i thought that? i'm asking el nono if he thinks that. i'm trying to see where he's coming from with one of his statements. geez, you're dumb.


to quote jeffrey lebowski:
"are you employed, sir?"

[ChumpDumper]

i know that's hard for you to understand being that you never have one, but please quote who said that. I know it's hard for you to read.



did i say i thought that? i'm asking el nono if he thinks that. i'm trying to see where he's coming from with one of his statements. geez, you're dumb. are you employed?Yes, I am employed. Thank you for your continued interest in my life.

Do you personally believe that bad neighborhoods could hurt businesses?

[Yonivore]

Yoni, lying his entire life to make up for his lower than average intelligence.
Nah, doesn't work...lacks veracity.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I know it's hard for you to read.


Yes, I am employed. Thank you for your continued interest in my life.

Do you personally believe that bad neighborhoods could hurt businesses?
on behalf of planet earth, please don't breed.

[ChumpDumper]

Nah, doesn't work...lacks veracity.You lie and you aren't intelligent.

It works.

[ChumpDumper]

on behalf of planet earth, please don't breed.Thank you for your continued interest in my personal life.

[ElNono]

No, your assessment assumes that there will be en equal reimbursement to the community by taxes paid.

I didn't claim such a thing. However, I don't deny that part of my taxes do fund local law enforcement. If there was a proposition to raise taxes to fund them better, then I might me inclined to support it. I don't think my proposition is irrational at all.



I'm talking about federal tax rates, and you bring up the non sequitur of of community funding.

Please pay attention.

LOL, it wasn't non sequitur when you called me a communist because I expect to receive the services I pay taxes for.
It also wasn't non sequitur when you came up with the retarded proposition that I directly fund the police budget out of pocket and got called out for it.

But NOW it's a non sequitur? :lmao

Your question as presented did not discriminate between state and federal taxes. Maybe you just need to pay more attention before posting your generic questions.

And FWIW, my local police force is Fort Monmouth Police, which not surprisingly is federally funded...

[ElNono]

hmmm. so businesses don't last in bad neighborhoods?

Depends on the nature of the business.

[ChumpDumper]

And FWIW, my local police force is Fort Monmouth Police, which not surprisingly is federally funded...I'd be willing to bet that some cops in the area were hired with federal grant money.

[Wild Cobra]

It also wasn't non sequitur when you came up with the retarded proposition that I directly fund the police budget out of pocket and got called out for it.

OK, I went back and see I misread something. I was speaking of Clambake wanting higher taxes, and him claiming to be a business owner. Your statement:
Perhaps higher taxes will improve security in my community, thereby increasing my business's appeal and accessibility...I misread it as:
Perhaps higher taxes will improve security in his community, thereby increasing his business's appeal and accessibility...Your jumping in that conversation got me confused a bit. Are you also a business owner?

[clambake]

nobody wants higher taxes. stop being an idiot.

[Wild Cobra]

nobody wants higher taxes. stop being an idiot.Then why do you advocate things that will cause higher taxation?

Are you for the expiration of the Bush tax cuts?

Are you for this health care plan that will perhaps add a trillion dollars annually to the deficit?

Maybe I'm wrong, but all the issues I remember you advocating cause higher government expenditures. Not less. Where will that money come from?

[clambake]

Then why do you advocate things that will cause higher taxation?

Are you for the expiration of the Bush tax cuts?

Are you for this health care plan that will perhaps add a trillion dollars annually to the deficit?

Maybe I'm wrong, but all the issues I remember you advocating cause higher government expenditures. Not less. Where will that money come from?

every single one of these has to be tackled. just face it like a man.

[ElNono]

Are you also a business owner?

Yes.