We got lucky Sheed signed with Boston!

[lotr1trekkie]

Working on the assumption that Rasheed was the Spur's first option but we got jilted, I think the Spurs' FO will come up smelling like roses at season's end by signing McDyess. I think Dice is a much[way] better fit here than Sheed would have been. His personality, playing style, temperment etc. is [way]more complimentary to Tim--- which is really the most important thing with any new player. Kind of reminds me of when a majority of my Spurs' friends were devastated that Jason Kidd didn't sign on the dotted line so we could replace that 'french kid'.

[Strike]

Two things:

1. I never wanted Jason Kidd in silver & black.

2. Do we need another thread about McDeyess/Wallace?

[JoshO501]

I wouldnt of hated rasheed coming to SA but i think Mcdyess is the better fit.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I think you are wrong. We really needed a new Rasheed/McDyess thread.

[Nathan Explosion]

I think Rasheed would have fit with the Spurs because Sheed has tremendous respect for Duncan and Pop. That can't be discounted. Having said that, does it really matter anymore?

Sheed's in Boston and McDyess is in San Antonio, and that's all there is to it.

[galvatron3000]

I'd like to have gotten both and younger on the perimeter myself. Ian and Blair are the youth on the frontline so we were already fine there. Thought I'd re think pointless thread and start participating in them instead of complaining about them or ignoring them so they can star at the top until people create new ones and frustrate everyone who hates them yet continue to read them even though in some cases you never knoe until you read them.

[bus driver]

in retrospect, me wanting the spurs to sign jason kidd was a VERY BAD PLAN. Wanting them to sign Wallace may turn out the same.
i will let the FO do what they do and hope for the best!
Go SPURS Go!

[Darkwaters]

I think you are wrong. We really needed a new Rasheed/McDyess thread.


I'm going to have to disagree. We haven't discussed Blair's ACLs (or lack thereof) enough.

[Seventyniner]

I'm going to have to disagree. We haven't discussed Blair's ACLs (or lack thereof) enough.

C'mon now, don't shortchange the "Bonner + Finley for _____________", "Odom may/may not sign with LA", and "bring back Bowen" threads!

[completely deck]

where are all the trade tim duncan or fire pop threads. i miss ignoring more threads

[DAF86]

We needed:

-a true bigman (6'11''- 7'0''): Sheed 6'11'' - Dice 6'9''

-a shot blocker: Sheed 1.3 Blks per game - Dice 0.8 Blks per game

-a big that could spread the floor: Sheed 35% 3pt shooter- Dice can't shoot the 3

-Another player that could create on the post when Tim is resting: Sheed can do that - Dice can't.


McDyess is an improvement over Thomas and Oberto, Wallace would have been the perfect fit. The only way we got lucky is if Rasheed is trully done, Which I don't think is the case.

[cherylsteele]

I'm going to have to disagree. We haven't discussed Blair's ACLs (or lack thereof) enough.
What?!?! This is news to me:D

[z0sa]

I was and am disappointed with Sheed signing in Boston. Personality wise, it is true McDyess is a much better fit. Yet Sheed still seems the superior defender and scorer, head issues be damned. His skillset fit like a glove for what we need right now (big man in the paint who can spread the floor for Timmy); McDyess, not so much.

That said, Dyess is no slouch, and the more motivated player. We'll see what he can bring to the table, yet I fear it may not be enough of what the Spurs need.

[Dr Cox]

We needed:

-a true bigman (6'11''- 7'0''): Sheed 6'11'' - Dice 6'9''

-a shot blocker: Sheed 1.3 Blks per game - Dice 0.8 Blks per game

-a big that could spread the floor: Sheed 35% 3pt shooter- Dice can't shoot the 3- its not all about 3's mcdyess still spreads the floor for duncan he is a better version of kurt thomas, opend the lane for duncan as well, bonner is our big with the 3 ball

-Another player that could create on the post when Tim is resting: Sheed can do that - Dice can't.


McDyess is an improvement over Thomas and Oberto, Wallace would have been the perfect fit. The only way we got lucky is if Rasheed is trully done, Which I don't think is the case.

[JamStone]

I would have loved to see Rasheed and Tim play alongside on both ends of the court. Perfect high-and-low power combination. And, interchangeable defensively. Neither that fleet of foot or athletic as they once were so defending mobile bigs would be a little bit of an issue, but both still great, great low post man defenders. I used to love to see Tim and Rasheed defend each other when they were matched up. I would have loved to see how they would have played together.

Also, while McDyess' personality might have fit better with the Spurs, it would have been awesome to see a personality like Rasheed's on the Spurs team. It would have brought a different layer of character to the team on the court, a kind of swagga that would have been fun to watch. Maybe that's not this team's style or how Pop would have it, but for me, I would have enjoyed seeing how Rasheed would have added to the character of the Spurs team. I don't think it would have been a negative thing at all. As mentioned, he has tremendous respect for Pop and Tim. He would get out of hand with the refs every once in a while, but he would be a great teammate. And, hey, Tim does that wit officials also, just less contemptuously.

My first choice for Rasheed was Orlando, but I still would have enjoyed watching him play for the Spurs too.

[bdictjames]

Let's hope McDyess, Ratliff, Blair and Ian stay healthy throughout the course of the season. We have a pretty awesome frontcourt, the first time in years.

[all_heart]

Working on the assumption that Rasheed was the Spur's first option but we got jilted, I think the Spurs' FO will come up smelling like roses at season's end by signing McDyess. I think Dice is a much[way] better fit here than Sheed would have been. His personality, playing style, temperment etc. is [way]more complimentary to Tim--- which is really the most important thing with any new player. Kind of reminds me of when a majority of my Spurs' friends were devastated that Jason Kidd didn't sign on the dotted line so we could replace that 'french kid'.

+1
BTW, I think a thread in regards to other threads is in order..:toast

[Dr Cox]

Let's hope McDyess, Ratliff, Blair and Ian stay healthy throughout the course of the season. We have a pretty awesome frontcourt, the first time in years.- i hope one more big stays healthy, hes not as important as the others but....tim duncan :lmao





...and bonner :bang

[timtonymanu]

well the only thing that will worry me if we had gotten sheed are his techs, but whatever he's not here. I just want Dice to get that ring.

[urunobili]

:tu

While on paper Sheed still looks better... i always wanted Dice on top of him to reinforce the frontcourt...

[superbigtime]

I think McDyess will be fine, but Rasheed would really have made problems for other teams (LAL). If we would have gotten him though, no doubt Spurs would have vaulted themselves into all time complainers and whiners. I hate his tantrums and meltdowns. If they happened with Larry Brown and Chauncey, it would have happened in SA too. But he really improves Boston.

[45 bank shot]

IF Spurs had Kidd, they win the 2004 title

doubt it

[024]

We needed:

-a true bigman (6'11''- 7'0''): Sheed 6'11'' - Dice 6'9''

-a shot blocker: Sheed 1.3 Blks per game - Dice 0.8 Blks per game

-a big that could spread the floor: Sheed 35% 3pt shooter- Dice can't shoot the 3

-Another player that could create on the post when Tim is resting: Sheed can do that - Dice can't.


McDyess is an improvement over Thomas and Oberto, Wallace would have been the perfect fit. The only way we got lucky is if Rasheed is trully done, Which I don't think is the case.
mcdyess is actually only .25 inches shorter than wallace. i do agree though, that wallace provides legitimate shotblocking. i might rather have mcydess's highly consistent jumpshot than wallace's 42% FG. with a newly formed big four, spurs need efficient scorers not a low percentage scorer. mcdyess also seems to have more left in the tank than wallace. a wallace 3-4 years ago with duncan would have been unstoppable though.

[sabar]

We already have a big that can spread the floor. The comparisons are pointless as we rotate more than one big man.

This whole argument is moot until we see how Rasheed is doing when the games start back up. He could fall off the earth like Horry did.

[anjlbitz]

What I love the most about getting McDyess is that we got him and DJBlair with the MLE. 'Sheed I think would have demanded the full MLE

[Spurs Brazil]

I need to admit that I wanted Sheed but so far I very happy we got McDyess.

Sheed is shooting triples like crazy and in a very low percentage.

Dice shoot much less and high percentages Js.

So far I'm very happy we got Dice and not Sheed

[lennyalderette]

yes sheed is a better defender if he feels like running down the court on that particular play. man i was watching dice run yesterday, and he can still run really fast , thats why you never see him give up on the play. when sheeds tired that guy will stop at half court and wait to see what happens, ive seen him do that alot. all last year and most of this year, and yeah sheed can shoot the three at 30 something percent but ill bet his reg field goal % is lower than dices perimeter shooting. i couldnt be happier with who we got

[EP Money Man]

Sheed is lazy. Dice is mo betta. Besides we already have Bonner for threes so Dice shooting mid-rangers fits us better. The only upside about having Sheed is that he is taller and longer that Dice, but he is still a power forward, not the center we (still) need.

[HarlemHeat37]

McDyess has looked really good the last few games..he's definitely developing into a nice compliment to Duncan..his defense the last few games has surprised me..

[angelbelow]

I really like the way Dice has played the last few games. Hes definitely a great fit IMO.

[TD 21]

The Spurs first option was McDyess. If you swtich Sheed's and McDyess's personalities then the Spurs would have switched primary options.

Do you have this on good authority from your source(s)? Because I heard some rumblings of this being true after Wallace signed with the Celtics.

[Hooks]

Dice is a way better fit than Sheed.


His defense is very good on athletic bigs, he showed it when he was guarding Nowtizki and Bosh. Although Dirk lit us up, Dice's D was awesome, he didn't really fall for any fakes, stayed in front of his guy, and made him take extremely tough shots.

He's the type of guy who can guard someone like Odom, and other athletic bigs. Not to mention that jumper is smooth. Glad we got him instead of Sheed.

I hope we get one more big though, I know Ratliff isn't going to have success guarding guys like Bynum.

[urunobili]

let's wait for the playoffs to be able to call this appropriately...:wakeup

[Johnny RIngo]

People are gonna regret making this topic, come playoff time, when Bonner blows his defensive assignments and misses all his threes. It would have been nice to have a guy like Sheed just so we never have to see Bonner on the court again.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Sheed is playing horribly.

Dice is growing into his role and will end up a perfect fit.

TOLD YOU SO (go and find the threads about Sheed vs Dice from July and before if you like).

:D

[Danny.Zhu]

I really really want to have both of them...

[Blackjack]

Sheed is playing horribly.

Dice is growing into his role and will end up a perfect fit.

TOLD YOU SO (go and find the threads about Sheed vs Dice from July and before if you like).

:D

Little premature, Ruff; little premature.. :lol

'Sheed was the best-case scenario, in terms of skill set, for the Spurs; he's a much better option against the bigger front lines and he's the more talented player.

Now, it's also true that he's nowhere near the professional that 'Dyess is. The guy's probably a good 15 lbs. overweight at the moment and he's using the season to get into shape.

You can tell me you told me so if he never rounds into shape and 'Dyess proves capable of holding up against the West's front lines, though.

There's no doubt that 'Dyess is the definition of a Spur and that they've been after him for years; there's no denying it. Maybe him being more cut from the Spurs' cloth actually did make him the number-one target. It's possible; the fact that their MLE netted them both 'Dyess and Blair makes the signing look even better in hindsight.

I've liked what I've seen from 'Dyess recently, as he seems to be getting into game-shape and recapturing his form, but it's a long season and the jury's still out.

I really hope he does end up being the better player for the Spurs; always liked the guy.

I just hope it's because of his ability to truly help the Spurs compete against the elite front lines in the league, and not because 'Sheed ends up being a flop with the Celtics.

[raspsa]

Sheed is longer and talented but Dice is more consistent and mentally stronger and IMO more dependable. Dice all the way.

Sheed is a good guy but can be very emotional has the potential to be a distraction. Antonio is an equally good guy, a blue-collar worker with zero attitude. Dice was born to be a Spur.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Little premature, Ruff; little premature.. :lol

'Sheed was the best-case scenario, in terms of skill set, for the Spurs; he's a much better option against the bigger front lines and he's the more talented player.

Now, it's also true that he's nowhere near the professional that 'Dyess is. The guy's probably a good 15 lbs. overweight at the moment and he's using the season to get into shape.

You can tell me you told me so if he never rounds into shape and 'Dyess proves capable of holding up against the West's front lines, though.

There's no doubt that 'Dyess is the definition of a Spur and that they've been after him for years; there's no denying it. Maybe him being more cut from the Spurs' cloth actually did make him the number-one target. It's possible; the fact that their MLE netted them both 'Dyess and Blair makes the signing look even better in hindsight.

I've liked what I've seen from 'Dyess recently, as he seems to be getting into game-shape and recapturing his form, but it's a long season and the jury's still out.

I really hope he does end up being the better player for the Spurs; always liked the guy.

I just hope it's because of his ability to truly help the Spurs compete against the elite front lines in the league, and not because 'Sheed ends up being a flop with the Celtics.

Look, Dice ain't there yet, that I concede, but he's clearly growing into his role and his team defence has improved VASTLY since the first few games. I want to see more of the tenacious rebounding he brought to the Pistons, and more one-on-one defensive games like he had on Dirk, but he's on track IMHO. By game 40 I expect him to be the force he was in Detroit.

By contrast, all Sheed is doing is hauling 3s and hurting his team. ESPN describe it perfectly:


Sheed jacked up six shots Sunday, missing them all, went 0-for-3 from 3-point range and picked up his league-leading fifth technical foul. Coach Doc Rivers yanked him with 7:46 left in the fourth quarter and didn't re-insert him until 9.3 seconds remained in overtime. Wallace has now attempted 128 shots this season, an astounding 81 of which have come from behind the arc. He's shooting 36 percent overall, but just .271 from behind the arc, ranking him 183rd league-wide in 3-point accuracy. Only Trevor Ariza (99), Danny Granger (88), Peja Stojakovic (86), Danilo Gallinari (84) and Channing Frye (83) have attempted more.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=celtics-091122

I saw Sheed's decline last year and posted about it at the end of last season. A few agreed with my assessment, but most were oblivious to it, instead supporting the Sheed brand (ie. his rep).

We are much better off with Dice than Sheed, and I think that will continue to be borne out as the season continues and Sheed's TO count rises.

[CGD]

Must say I love Dice, but I tend to agree with most of this.


We needed:

-a true bigman (6'11''- 7'0''): Sheed 6'11'' - Dice 6'9''

-a shot blocker: Sheed 1.3 Blks per game - Dice 0.8 Blks per game

-a big that could spread the floor: Sheed 35% 3pt shooter- Dice can't shoot the 3

-Another player that could create on the post when Tim is resting: Sheed can do that - Dice can't.


McDyess is an improvement over Thomas and Oberto, Wallace would have been the perfect fit. The only way we got lucky is if Rasheed is trully done, Which I don't think is the case.

[Muser]

This spread the floor bullshit is stupid, Sheed is not a consistent 3 point shooter..McDyess however is money with his jumpshot which will draw a defender out of the paint.

Also Sheeds already has 5 technical fouls, do you really think Pop would play him when he's doing this shit?

[hater]

Sheed is a 3pt jacking machine this season. while Dyess is actually playing D and draining 2pts.

:tu :tu

[SenorSpur]

Just read a recent a piece a few days ago, where Sheed admitted that he "can't jump anymore and can't keep guys in front of me anymore." He admitted that at this point in his career, he basically must play more of a "mental game".

Doc Rivers chimed in on how Sheed's production has not been what they expected mainly because he's not in shape. He went onto say that because Sheed is an older player, in a young man's game, that it's vital for him to be in top playing condition - which he's not.

Spurs should probably count their blessings that he spurned them.

[Mel_13]

Sheed is a 3pt jacking machine this season. while Dyess is actually playing D and draining 2pts.

:tu :tu

81 of 128 shots are 3 pointers and he's only making 27%. To top that off, his rebounding rates are not only below Dice's, they're below Bonner's.

[TJastal]

Height wise they are almost the same. I'm not sure why people keep saying otherwise, but its a myth that somehow got started. They are both roughly 6-10. Quit perpetuating this "Sheed is 6'11 Dice 6'9" phony bullshit

Wallace has a bit more length with his arms to help in the low block, McDyess is much quicker out on the perimeter defending the pick n roll. Pick your poison there. I prefer having the quicker defender.

Wallace may have longer range on his shot but if they don't go in he's useless. He's only shooting 27% so far this year from long range with recent games of 0-3, 0-8, & 2-6. He's shooting a whopping 36% from the field so far for the celtics. He's already shot the celtics out of 2 games this year and it's only 10 games into this season.

McDyess has given the spurs numerous second chance opportunites already this year by lurking nearer the basket getting offensive rebounds and tap outs. He's scoring at an efficient rate, shooting a healthy 53%. He's almost automatic from a 15-18 feet.

Come playoff time we'll see who shows up. If history proves reliable, my money is on Dice. When Wallace shoots the celtics out of the playoffs I'm going to be laughing my ass off at all the people jocking him.

[Blackjack]

Look, Dice ain't there yet, that I concede, but he's clearly growing into his role and his team defence has improved VASTLY since the first few games. I want to see more of the tenacious rebounding he brought to the Pistons, and more one-on-one defensive games like he had on Dirk, but he's on track IMHO. By game 40 I expect him to be the force he was in Detroit.

Given the benefit of good health, (knock on wood) I'd agree on all counts.:tu

My argument this summer was pro-'Sheed, not anti-'Dyess.


I saw Sheed's decline last year and posted about it at the end of last season. A few agreed with my assessment, but most were oblivious to it, instead supporting the Sheed brand (ie. his rep).

We are much better off with Dice than Sheed, and I think that will continue to be borne out as the season continues and Sheed's TO count rises.

I'd gladly be willing to concede the argument if the trends remain the same; it's not so bad when you lose an argument that benefits you in the end.;)

There's no way in hell I'd defend the 'Sheed we've seen to start the season. As I said before, he's a good 15 lbs. overweight and he's looked as if the post has been affected with the Ebola virus; I saw him walk to the bench the other day and that body was looking like a stretched out Chuckster.. :lol

Having said that, the reason I wanted 'Sheed more was because his ceiling was higher and the reward was greater. If he comes into camp in shape and motivated to the degree 'Dyess has shown, he's just a better fit in terms of skill set and team need. Even out of shape the guy can still defend the post as good as just about anyone; D. Howard can attest.

'Dyess is everything you'd expect a Spur to be and there was never a question on my part of him fitting seamlessly. He's a pro's pro and he's definitely an upgrade, in overall play, to the likes of Thomas and Oberto.

My only question was, would he be able to help put the Spurs over the top with the front lines they'd have to face, not if he'd be able to do a solid job and contribute to a winning ball club.

With 'Sheed you weren't sure what you'd get on a consistent basis because of what's between the ears, but you knew how beneficial he would be if he was right.

With 'Dyess you knew you were getting a solid human being and player that you could depend upon, but you weren't quite sure if it'd be enough in the end.

I hope 'Dyess is enough in the end, but I guess you've also got to leave open the possibility of the Spurs acquiring some more size to help in the post as well.

In which case, 'Dyess looks to be an even better signing.



Height wise they are almost the same. I'm not sure why people keep saying otherwise, but its a myth that somehow got started. They are both roughly 6-10. Quit perpetuating this "Sheed is 6'11 Dice 6'9" phony bullshit.

I don't have any problem with those making arguments on the basis of what they feel each individual has left in the tank or on character, but I've seen this posted on more than on occasion.

You can look at listings of their height all you want but 'Sheed is virtually the same size as Tim. If you're going to tell me 'Dyess and Tim look to be the same size, than we're going to have to agree to disagree.

[Ryvin1]

OP was right on this one, I don't think we'd be playing as well is Rasheed was on the team instead of Mcdyess. I think Dyess's value is really showing here during the playoffs and if Sheed was the first option we lucked into the better fit.

[tuncaboylu]

Watching McDyess next to Duncan was my dream, after Admiral leaves us. 7 years passed, McDyess far away from that days and Duncan is not the most dominant player of the game at the moment. But it's nice to see that they're stil contributing very well in our front court and turning our 3 seconds lane to hell for Dallas centers. I can't imagine what would happen if my dream was realized 7 years ago...

[TDMVPDPOY]

wallace could be good replacement for bonner...

[MaNu4Tres]

Props to Ruff and OP...

I was wrong in this instance, I thought a motivated Sheed would be a better fit than McDyess. Boy am I happy I was wrong.

[NFGIII]

Boy did we dodge a bullet on this one. I was watching the Celtics-Heat game and his numbers for the first three games were terrible. The only double digit anything had to be minutes since I didn't see any rebounds or points over 6. Then I had a flashback to the thread about him and the Simmons article. That article really made Sheed look pretty bad and it seems that he is on his way out. For a player that I thought had a lot of talent it was a sad commentary. Once again the ego got in the way.

[tuncaboylu]

Check the Sheed's +/- last night. -20 in only 11 minutes, what was this guy doing during this period, digging a hole?

[TJastal]

Two things:

1. I never wanted Jason Kidd in silver & black.

2. Do we need another thread about McDeyess/Wallace?

1. cool story, bro
2. yes

[TJastal]

Check the Sheed's +/- last night. -20 in only 11 minutes, what was this guy doing during this period, digging a hole?

Well ya gotta remember now he's got Fin-lay dragging his already sorry as down the tube even furthur.

Still can't believe 99% of the board was so nuts over this signing this guy.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Look, Dice ain't there yet, that I concede, but he's clearly growing into his role and his team defence has improved VASTLY since the first few games. I want to see more of the tenacious rebounding he brought to the Pistons, and more one-on-one defensive games like he had on Dirk, but he's on track IMHO. By game 40 I expect him to be the force he was in Detroit.

By contrast, all Sheed is doing is hauling 3s and hurting his team. ESPN describe it perfectly:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=celtics-091122

I saw Sheed's decline last year and posted about it at the end of last season. A few agreed with my assessment, but most were oblivious to it, instead supporting the Sheed brand (ie. his rep).

We are much better off with Dice than Sheed, and I think that will continue to be borne out as the season continues and Sheed's TO count rises.

Check out that foretelling and prognostication! Nailed that shit back on 23-11-09! :lol

Actually, I was very disappointed with Dice's play for most of the season, although as is his habit he has come on strong near the end of the season. Just think of him as a poor man's Big Shot Rob... now I just hope he keeps it up.


Props to Ruff and OP...

I was wrong in this instance, I thought a motivated Sheed would be a better fit than McDyess. Boy am I happy I was wrong.

Thanks, mate. It's nice to be vindicated once in a while, and even nicer that another poster would notice and bump it. :tu :)