How is LA better than last year?

[vander]

09 Kobe > 10 Kobe
09 Gasol = 10 Gasol
09 Ariza = 10 Artest
09 Odom > 10 Odom
09 Fisher > 10 Fisher
09 Farmar ?=? 10 Farmar
09 Walton ?=? 10 Walton
09 Vujacic ?=? 10 Vujacic
09 Bynum ?<? 10 Bynum

I just don't see the improvement, I just don't see what all the fuss is about
Odom won't match his contract year production
Artest won't help the team anymore than Ariza did
Fisher continues to fade, and he was vital to their success last year
Kobe is no spring chicken, he's still great, but has played his best basketball already
the only way they improve is if Bynum becomes a dominant force.

meanwhile, we will be better at every single spot down the depth chart except for TP this coming year.

[DAF86]

09 Kobe > 10 Kobe
09 Gasol = 10 Gasol
09 Ariza > 10 Artest
09 Odom > 10 Odom
09 Fisher > 10 Fisher
09 Farmar ?=? 10 Farmar
09 Walton ?=? 10 Walton
09 Vujacic ?=? 10 Vujacic
09 Bynum ?<? 10 Bynum

I just don't see the improvement, I just don't see what all the fuss is about
Odom won't match his contract year production
Artest won't help the team anymore than Ariza did
Fisher continues to fade, and he was vital to their success last year
Kobe is no spring chicken, he's still great, but has played his best basketball already
the only way they improve is if Bynum becomes a dominant force.

meanwhile, we will be better at every single spot down the depth chart except for TP this coming year.

Fixed.

And no LA isn't better than last year but they still remain as the top contenders IMO.

[sonic21]

who's saying they're better?
they're still the favourites though

[IronMexican]

Bynum should vastly improve if he can stay healthy.

[DrHouse]

Improved Bynum (i.e. healthy Bynum)
More minutes for Shannon Brown
Artest > Ariza
One more year of chemistry with the core

The team will be better.

[sonic21]

adam morrison will play more, they should be a lock to win it all

[BronxCowboy]

Bottom line is they are the champs, and are bringing back essentially the same team, they are the team to beat.

[bostonguy]

They arent an old team. They now know what it takes to win it all. They will be improved within themselves. Artest >>>>> Ariza.

[nkdlunch]

Bynum should vastly improve if he can stay healthy.

:lmao

[Dr Cox]

no doubt, bringing lamar back was huge, i dont think odom will produce like last year, but he makes the lakers a matchup nightmare,

i cant wait to see shannon browns first full year in the system, he has alot of upside, but i honestally dont like the artest addition, i think he takes away from the team chemistry that phil wants to have, ron taking too many shots are not good for the lakers


should be a fun year

[NicolasBatum]

After Gasol for nothing

Richard Jefferson = $14,200,000 for the Spurs
Artest + Odom = $ 13,000,000 for the Lakers ????????

[Xolotl]

no doubt, bringing lamar back was huge, i dont think odom will produce like last year, but he makes the lakers a matchup nightmare,

i cant wait to see shannon browns first full year in the system, he has alot of upside, but i honestally dont like the artest addition, i think he takes away from the team chemistry that phil wants to have, ron taking too many shots are not good for the lakers


should be a fun year

I agree with the great Dr. Cox, Shannon Brown does have upside. Odom is damn hard to defend when he decides he feels like playing. But Ron....he's the factor I'm interested in. He has great skills but I can't wait for him to strip the ball from Gasol for an easy layup

[Fabbs]

09 Kobe > 10 Kobe

I just don't see the improvement, I just don't see what all the fuss is about
Odom won't match his contract year production
Artest won't help the team anymore than Ariza did
Fisher continues to fade, and he was vital to their success last year
Kobe is no spring chicken, he's still great, but has played his best basketball already
the only way they improve is if Bynum becomes a dominant force.

meanwhile, we will be better at every single spot down the depth chart except for TP this coming year.
09 Kobe > 10 Kobe with all the ref pampering he should at least = 09
09 Gasol = 10 Gasol gotta say he should be better. Why you say =?
09 Ariza = 10 Artest debateable. Remember Artest is being coached by Phil, he might know how to use the mega user Artest. (Kills me to say that, freaking user Artest. Larry Bird must be sick.)
09 Odom > 10 Odom Agree his contract year will show his true candy colors.
09 Fisher > 10 Fisher joke. He'll have (rigged) defenders backing up again to give him clear shots. :depressed
09 Farmar ?=? 10 Farmar Oh no Farmar will be better.
09 Walton ?=? 10 Walton Either way better then Finley or Boner.
09 Vujacic ?=? 10 Vujacic Ask a homo.
09 Bynum ?<? 10 Bynum Byns should be much better. Health.

With the Lakers usual additional lineup of Joey Crawford, Bavetta etc and the new players now knowing how to use such an advantage, its looking good for LA.

Phil J >>>>>> to the googleth power then Popped.
We can hope we don't face LA in the playoffs.

Spurs: Timmy Ds health is #1.
Popamorons lineups #2.
SuperGnobs health #3 (related to how Popped does or does not use him).

[Dr Cox]

I agree with the great Dr. Cox, Shannon Brown does have upside. Odom is damn hard to defend when he decides he feels like playing. But Ron....he's the factor I'm interested in. He has great skills but I can't wait for him to strip the ball from Gasol for an easy layup


haha thanks, like i said it should be fun to watch, they could be even better next year, but i just see artest hurting more than helping that team...but hey we will see in like 90+ days!!! cant wait!


cox out

[DrHouse]

Only on SpursTalk is a Laker team that kept the same core and added Artest worse than they were last season. You guys will rationalize anything.

[vander]

09 Kobe > 10 Kobe with all the ref pampering he should at least = 09
09 Gasol = 10 Gasol gotta say he should be better. Why you say =?
09 Ariza = 10 Artest debateable. Remember Artest is being coached by Phil, he might know how to use the mega user Artest. (Kills me to say that, freaking user Artest. Larry Bird must be sick.)
09 Odom > 10 Odom Agree his contract year will show his true candy colors.
09 Fisher > 10 Fisher joke. He'll have (rigged) defenders backing up again to give him clear shots. :depressed
09 Farmar ?=? 10 Farmar Oh no Farmar will be better.
09 Walton ?=? 10 Walton Either way better then Finley or Boner.
09 Vujacic ?=? 10 Vujacic Ask a homo.
09 Bynum ?<? 10 Bynum Byns should be much better. Health.

With the Lakers usual additional lineup of Joey Crawford, Bavetta etc and the new players now knowing how to use such an advantage, its looking good for LA.

Phil J >>>>>> to the googleth power then Popped.
We can hope we don't face LA in the playoffs.

Spurs: Timmy Ds health is #1.
Popamorons lineups #2.
SuperGnobs health #3 (related to how Popped does or does not use him).

on Kobe: no man escapes the aging process, it could be ever so slight, but guards typically start to decline somewhere around 31.

on Gasol: how should he be better? he was outstanding last year, and now they have Artest, Gasol will probably see less touches in the paint and he doesn't like that, Gasol gets better the more he gets the ball.

Artest/Ariza: that team is loaded with players that want/need the ball in their hands, Ariza was an outstanding role player on a team that needed good role players, Artest isn't going to catch and shoot 3's at the percentage Ariza did, especially at the erratic frequencies Ariza was called upon, and at this point, Ariza is probably a better defender than Artest.

also I don't see Farmar getting much better, how often do PG's significantly improve their decision-making, court-vision, and overall basketball IQ

[xtremesteven33]

Mcdyess will be the X Factor.

We know the Big 3 will perform (if healthy) and RJ is still in his prime...Can Mcdyess still perform at his advanced age??

[Kermit]

I'm not going to sit here and claim that Artest on the Lakers knocks them down a peg, but it's my opinion that retaining Ariza would've been better for the team. He should fire his agent.

[Man In Black]

For Nurse Dickhead. You support a powerful team. So do we.

Your Experienced Core is as follows:
Bean
Gasol
Odom
Fisher
Bynum (This is a reach because he's missed large parts of the past 2 seasons, if you're honest with yourself(I know most times you are blinded by P & G Blindness),you'd say he played like shit in the playoffs and was happy that Odom was there to bail him out).

Artest cannot be placed here as experienced. While he did play for 2 years in Chicago, the head coach at the time was Bill Cartwright. His triangle experience is severely limited. Since Chicago was going through a youth movement, the tri wasn't the offense they implemented. Both seasons Artest was there, that team won about 20 games. Maybe his relationship with LO helps him bridge a gap but the Tri, is not an easy system to understand. If you think it's easy for a player to come in and learn the tri, then ask yourself...why was it hard for a former perennial All-NBA player like Karl Malone to even grasp the workings of it? It's been said that during his year with LAL, the Tri looked more like an oblong. Be prepped, that can happen yet again.

Your Experienced Bench is as follows:
Luke-Great passer, unreliable shooter, as a defender...he's just 1 step higher than Casper The Friendly Ghost.

Sasha-He is pretty much Casper The Friendly Ghost. He can't make shots, He fouls a lot, he's really good a crying. He's not quite the player you guys made him out to be when Ginobili was playing with only 1 good ankle.

Shannon Brown-OK, so the throw-in player with Morrison has some value, great. We'll see if he can keep Parker in front of him. It's unlikely but I will agree that whatever he gives you defensively is better than Turnstile DFish.

Jordan Farmar-You'd think with his type of game, he'd be Parker lite. Only problem though, is the guy doesn't have it mentally. Able to effect a game in both negative and positive ways. A veritable zero when it comes to plus minus stats.

Mbenga, Powell are just roaming Gnomes. Ok not gnomes. They are role players who only play if there is crazy foul trouble or injury. You better hope for foul trouble, because if these guys are counted upon for large periods of time, well...consider the reign over.

Morrison-Something about white guys that lead the NCAA in scoring. They don't translate their game to the NBA very well. Both Redick and Morrison were college demi-gods. But in the NBA, they aren't starting material. That may change but probably not. Ammo as you call him, shoots blanks. A lot has to be said about a lottery pick playing Summer League Ball 3 years AFTER he was drafted in the 1st round. Good shooter, crappy defender. So bad that Casper gives him tips.

OK. So the Lakers have a strong team. So do the Spurs. These games aren't played on message boards or on paper, they're played on the court. I haven't seen this type of piss gold bravado since the 3peat years. I can't wait for the Silver & Black to knock the smug off your faces.

[SpurCharger]

Why Are People So Worried About the Lakers??? They Are The Champs until Someone beats Them..... Just Like In 2003 when we ended them goin for a 4 Peat..... The Spurs Made alot more Improvements This Off season then The Lakers...... We dont Need to worry about them.... Let them Worry about Us!

[Showtime24 LAKERS]

Don't forget, Farmar, Morrison will be in their contract year. they might have a break out season like ariza did to get a new deal! just saying..:lol

and i still have a tiny faith in Vajubitch that he can bounce back and be productive again.

all in all the lakers still a stacked team and the team to beat. :toast to next year!!

[IronMexican]

I liked Ariza more than Artest on the Lakers. But, if Mitch feels Artest was the better fit, so bet it.

[Kamnik]

No way Artest is better than Ariza...

I can't think of anything where Artest would be better than Ariza. Maybe only in certain defensive matchups. But in other 99 categories Ariza is a better player and a teammate.

And yes... Fisher will be a year older. If Brown can step up it maybe won't hurt them that much.

[Culburn369]

We had finite choices:

Ariza, but no Artest & Odom.

Artest & Odom, but no Ariza.

That's it.

Just thank Christ, Buss acted with extreme prejudice in rushing Ariza out of LA and inking Artest. That left Odom committed...& he did it to himself. Buss just jumped all over it.

[kwamay_brown54]

There was a reason why the lakers had to reduce their offer to Lamar, according to Ric Bucher, after Dr. Buss found out the projected salary cap numbers dude almost had a heart attack.

[Culburn369]

Odom wanted to play with Artest. That was his dream, his want above all others. Phil, Kobe & Magic signed off on it, and Buss granted Odom his dream, his want. That's the trade kicker. Bucking convention wisdom-not everything is monetarily based, not in this instance anyways.

Buss is Odom's hero, and Odom, because of his '09 Playoff performance is the hero's hero.

[cobbler]

No way Artest is better than Ariza...

I can't think of anything where Artest would be better than Ariza. Maybe only in certain defensive matchups. But in other 99 categories Ariza is a better player and a teammate.

And yes... Fisher will be a year older. If Brown can step up it maybe won't hurt them that much.

The Lakers don't need scoring. What was everyone saying last year? The Lakers have all the talent to win, they just arent tough enough.

Artest makes the Lakers tougher. And yses, he is better than Ariza. Artest has proven himself over many years playing for several teams with various levels of talent. Ariza has one good half of a year for a talented Lakers team. Let's see how that plays out over the next few years.

Ariza defense came from off ball steals and contesting the passing lanes. Kobe has been playing that role more and more as he ages. Artest is more a man to man defender and can now take on the toughest opponent and allow Kobe more roaming and give him the rest required. Artest's style of defense over Ariza's makes the team tougher inside.

I would love to see the stats you can provide in the "other 99" catagories that show Ariza is better.

[Culburn369]

Gasol got tougher. The improvement in Gasol/'08 Finals & Gasol/'09 Finals is startingly. He played Howard splendidly, never retreated, never crapped the bed like he did against Boston a year earlier. He'll continue to improve defensively as the confidence builds. He'll finally get to a point where his reliance, his crutch, his out on the officiating will cease.

[23LeBronJames23]

They wont be better cause team depends on kobe and as you can see kobe is getting older and worser...

[vander]

moved to the NBA forum? Rabble Rabble!
:madrun

[cobbler]

They wont be better cause team depends on kobe and as you can see kobe is getting older and worser...

Worser?

[23LeBronJames23]

Worser?

yes

[Amaso]

No way Artest is better than Ariza...

I can't think of anything where Artest would be better than Ariza. Maybe only in certain defensive matchups. But in other 99 categories Ariza is a better player and a teammate.


lol, just look at the contenders and who their wing scorers are:

Paul Pierce - Ron guards him better than Ariza could
Ray Allen - Ariza doesn't guard him anyway, its usually Fisher (or Brown with Ariza gone) because you don't need size to guard Ray Allen
Lebron James - Artest obviously
Tony Parker - Ariza actually guards Parker well, and Artest wouldn't have the footspeed to keep Parker in front of him
Carmelo Anthony - Artest obviously
Dirk Nowitzki - I didn't know if I should even consider the Mavs as contenders but since I added the Nuggets I guess I can, or if Nowitzki would even be guarded by Artest. But Artest would guard Nowitzki better than Ariza.

Yeah, Ariza is a really good defender, and he can somewhat hold his own against most of the players above, but the truth of the matter is Artest gaurds Paul Pierce and Lebron James really well which are probably the Lakers 2 biggest competitors.

[Spurs_210]

They wont be better cause team depends on kobe and as you can see kobe is getting older and worser...
The Cavs won't either cause Mike Brown is their head coach and a overrated SG runs the point.

[cobbler]

yes

Sorry, I don't have my Cleveland urban slang dictionary handy.

[The Franchise]

Only on SpursTalk is a Laker team that kept the same core and added Artest worse than they were last season. You guys will rationalize anything.

Trust me, by Jan. it will start to seem a lot less irrational to you as well. :lol

[La Peace]

They arent an old team. They now know what it takes to win it all. They will be improved within themselves. Artest >>>>> Ariza.

[Medvedenko]

How are they not better.......champion experience is the key. Plus adding a hungry vet in Artest with a healthy Bynum will put them in the running again.

[Allanon]

Bynum has improved every year so far, no reason to think he's done.

Artest is much more talented than Ariza.

As Lamar Odom, Bynum and Pau play together more, they're learning how to play more effectively as a unit. The Lakers frontcourt should be alot better this year.

Maybe not individually, but the Lakers as a team should be a much improved defensive team this year.

As for losing a step, Jordan didn't win his last ring until he was something like 35 years old..and he was probably still the best player in the game at that age. Kareem Abdul Jabbar played until he was like 40 years old.

[Spurs_210]

As a Spurs fan you should know after winning title they improved in the know how to win. Countless times the fact the Spurs know how win has help overcome very tough odds. Now the Lakers are a tougher team as they have a title under their belt. I'll hold my opinion on Bynum until I see him healthy all year and live up to the hype.

[TheMACHINE]

Lakers got better and crazier. Spurs got better and gayer. WCF matchup right there!

[Findog]

You can make an argument that Artest is better than Ariza or vice versa. Either way, Lakers are favorites to repeat. We'll see.

[KSeal]

Ariza was probably my favorite Laker last year, I'm going to miss him. I just hope Ron fits in and doesn't completely destroy the triangle, which could very likely happen. If he will buy into whatever role PJ gives him, like he has said he will, then I think everything will be fine. Don't know if the Lakers are really a better team from last year even if Ron does buy into his role, they're definitely a tougher team with Ron, I don't think anyone can question that.

[TheProfessor]

Ariza was probably my favorite Laker last year, I'm going to miss him. I just hope Ron fits in and doesn't completely destroy the triangle, which could very likely happen. If he will buy into whatever role PJ gives him, like he has said he will, then I think everything will be fine. Don't know if the Lakers are really a better team from last year even if Ron does buy into his role, they're definitely a tougher team with Ron, I don't think anyone can question that.
I think this is about right. Ariza had great defensive versatility and was on the upswing of his career, whereas Artest has lost a step, especially against quicker perimeter players. Ariza didn't need the ball and fit well in the triangle, while Artest breaks plays regularly and hoists ill-advised jumpshots at a low percentage. And they've just given a crazy guy his last big contract, so there's no financial incentive to stay in line if things go south. I understand the rationale to going after a player like Artest at that price, but Ariza was an exceptional fit for the Lakers, with far less risk.

[phyzik]

just stating facts.

Lakers got rid of a 6'8" 24yr old who had these numbers.

PPG 11.3 RPG 4.20 APG 2.3 EFF + 12.96

Lakers replaced him with a 6'7" 30yr old (Come November) verifiable nut case who had these numbers.

PPG 15.6 RPG 4.30 APG 4.2 EFF + 12.85


Its practically a wash. A lateral move. This Didnt make them any better or any worse unless you want to nitpick and look at age and the mental issues. Both sides (laker and Spur homers) are hoping for way to much from Ron Artest to the Lakers. Buss went this route simply for the money savings.

[Culburn369]

Hey, dummies!!!!!!!!!

If we kept Ariza---we weren't going to get Artest. And if we didn't get Artest, we ran a distinct risk of losing Odom.

Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[phyzik]

Hey, dummies!!!!!!!!!

If we kept Ariza---we weren't going to get Artest. And if we didn't get Artest, we ran a distinct risk of losing Odom.

Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

exactly, as much of an asshole troll you are, thats correct. It was strictly a money savings move.

[Culburn369]

exactly

Danka, phy.

[Laker-fan-in-SanAnto]

I thought that too, but the more I talk to my friend who is a Rockets fan (who midway through the season wanted Artest gone) the more I think there is less of a gap in who is better and even some question as to who is better.

On paper I would much rather have Artest. he shot 40% from 3 point land last season and averaged close to 20 ppg. But my friend seems to think that he would have prefered him traded for someone less of a nut job. Artest supposedly broke plays ALL the time and was not the athlete/defender he was a couple years ago.

I casually follow the Rockets because they are in the Spurs division, but my friend watches the Rockets 60+ times a year and a handful of times in person so I trust his opinion over mine on the topic.

Ask your friends this, Who was Artest playing for? The Rockets. Who is Artest going to play for? The defending champions Lakers. I hope that keeps in check. He has wanted to be a Laker for sometime and he finally got to be one. He has also wanted a ring for quite sometime. He improved his chances.

[SpursDynasty]

Someone explain how Artest > Ariza other than it's sugarcoating the worst move of the offseason in the NBA?

Ron Artest in 2009 Playoffs: 39.4% FG%, 27.7% 3-pt FG%, 4.3 RPG in the playoffs
Trevor Ariza in 2009 Playoffs: 49.7% FG%, 47.6 3-pt FG%, 4.2 RPG in the playoffs

[Double-Up]

Someone explain how Artest > Ariza other than it's sugarcoating the worst move of the offseason in the NBA?

Ron Artest in 2009 Playoffs: 39.4% FG%, 27.7% 3-pt FG%, 4.3 RPG in the playoffs
Trevor Ariza in 2009 Playoffs: 49.7% FG%, 47.6 3-pt FG%, 4.2 RPG in the playoffs

Why did you leave out PPG and AST? Always sugarcoating shit...

[Muser]

I know there is a big argument to say he was on a worse team, but 27.7% 3-pt :lmao

[BUMP]

Someone explain how Artest > Ariza other than it's sugarcoating the worst move of the offseason in the NBA?

Ron Artest in 2009 Playoffs: 39.4% FG%, 27.7% 3-pt FG%, 4.3 RPG in the playoffs
Trevor Ariza in 2009 Playoffs: 49.7% FG%, 47.6 3-pt FG%, 4.2 RPG in the playoffs

Someone explain how you're still here

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127858


I'll leave this forum for life.

I am doing this to prove to everyone how much of a non-factor the Lakers are in the playoffs. They haven't accomplished anything. They just want to come out, shoot some hoops, and BS their way to everything. Not going to get it done in the Finals. Orlando will win the championship. There are no All-Stars other than Kobe on this Laker team. Not an intimidating lineup. Just a bunch of a jump shooters who score off Kobe double teams.

[sonic21]

Bump=leonard?

[BUMP]

Bump=leonard?

try again

[Kobe™]

I find it funny that people are saying Ariza>> Artest.
Maybe I'm taking it out of context and they mean he's a "Better Fit", But a better player? No Way.

Ariza's #'s in the post-season look good because the matchups favored his style of play.
He can't play against a physical 3, He struggled against Carmelo and Kobe was needed to help him. It Would've probably gotten worse against Pierce or LeBron

So from that standpoint, we have upgraded quite a bit..Artest can check all 3 of those guys one on one and if need be play some 4. We're more flexible then ever..

As far as regarding the bench, the likes of Farmar, Sasha - all had down years... I doubt that will happen this season.

[IronMexican]

With LA getting Ron and Spurs getting RJ, the Lakers are now "tougher"

[peskypesky]

As much as I hate to say it, the Lakers will most probably be even better with Artest. No way you can equate Ariza with Artest. They're just on different levels.

And Bynum will be getting better. He's still young and relatively inexperienced, so you have to bet on him improving.

Kobe, Gasol, and Odom will be just as good. The role players will be just as good.

The only two things that MIGHT make them weaker would be the lack of hunger and possible chemistry issues with Artest. But don't count on it.

That being said, I still like the Spurs' chances.

[peskypesky]

Why did you leave out PPG and AST? Always sugarcoating shit...

Jesus Christ, who is that hottie in your signature?

[Banzai]

I find it funny that people are saying Ariza>> Artest.
Maybe I'm taking it out of context and they mean he's a "Better Fit", But a better player? No Way.

Ariza's #'s in the post-season look good because the matchups favored his style of play.
He can't play against a physical 3, He struggled against Carmelo and Kobe was needed to help him. It Would've probably gotten worse against Pierce or LeBron

So from that standpoint, we have upgraded quite a bit..Artest can check all 3 of those guys one on one and if need be play some 4. We're more flexible then ever..

As far as regarding the bench, the likes of Farmar, Sasha - all had down years... I doubt that will happen this season.

What up Freshh:hat

[kwamay_brown54]

I rewatched the Rockets series, and some people are just ingoring the game tape. For games 1-3 when a healthy yao was abusing bynum and gasol on the low block, the lakers were forced to overload their coverage and collapse on Yao virtually every possession. This would allow the Rockets to swing the ball to the other side of the floor, and let Ron or Scola go 1 on 1 for a score or to make another play. In these first three games, Ron was taking much higher quality shots within the context of the offense, and Ariza simply could not cover him 1 on 1. When Yao went down, Artest had no choice but to be the hero, and he failed miserably, but to his credit he had the nuts to take those shots anyways.

[Unforgivable]

One thing Artest does for Kobe is make it harder for teams to switch their SF onto Kobe.

In 2008, the lineup LA had on the floor in crunch time was Fisher, Kobe, Vujacic, Odom, Gasol. Boston could switch Pierce onto Kobe without having to think twice about it, but now Allen could have real problems guarding Artest who probably has 40-50 pounds on Ray Ray.

[JamStone]

I think there are legitimate questions and criticisms that can be made about Artest joining the Lakers. Individually, Artest is a better player than Ariza (even though some might try to argue otherwise). He is. Artest is a better individual player. However, one can argue that he might not fit with the Lakers as well as Ariza did last year. That's a legitimate criticism that has to be proven next year. Until they actually get on the court, it's not a ridiculous notion to question that Artest might not fit as well with the Lakers as Ariza did. Artest likes the basketball in his hands on offense a lot as well. He also likes to iso against defensive mismatches. He's not exactly the best spot-up jump shooter. He hasn't really played in a structured offense like the triangle before (although the Lakers do break off from the triangle much more than in previous seasons). Those are legitimate claims why Artest might not be the best addition to the Lakers. And, that doesn't even go into other potential issues he might cause with his personality.

Talent wise, the Lakers should be as good as last year, maybe even slightly better. But you cannot ignore chemistry on and off the court. Trevor Ariza fit well for the Lakers in both regards. Artest might, might not.

The Lakers are and should be the favorites still in the West. But it's fair to question if they're necessarily a better team than last year.

[all_heart]

A lot of good points made here for both Ariza and Artest, however I will say that while Artest will be better defensively in half-court set, Ariza gave the Lakers some speed and length, the same qualities that allowed Lakers to seal the deal on some end of game steals in the playoffs. Next year, if I'm a coach I'm going to run against the Lakers. I don't think the core group can keep up. When the subs from the weak bench come in, slow the game a little and force them to make mistakes.

[DrHouse]

I think there are legitimate questions and criticisms that can be made about Artest joining the Lakers. Individually, Artest is a better player than Ariza (even though some might try to argue otherwise). He is. Artest is a better individual player. However, one can argue that he might not fit with the Lakers as well as Ariza did last year. That's a legitimate criticism that has to be proven next year. Until they actually get on the court, it's not a ridiculous notion to question that Artest might not fit as well with the Lakers as Ariza did. Artest likes the basketball in his hands on offense a lot as well. He also likes to iso against defensive mismatches. He's not exactly the best spot-up jump shooter. He hasn't really played in a structured offense like the triangle before (although the Lakers do break off from the triangle much more than in previous seasons). Those are legitimate claims why Artest might not be the best addition to the Lakers. And, that doesn't even go into other potential issues he might cause with his personality.

Talent wise, the Lakers should be as good as last year, maybe even slightly better. But you cannot ignore chemistry on and off the court. Trevor Ariza fit well for the Lakers in both regards. Artest might, might not.

The Lakers are and should be the favorites still in the West. But it's fair to question if they're necessarily a better team than last year.

WRONG. Artest has triangle experience already.

[The Franchise]

Ask your friends this, Who was Artest playing for? The Rockets. Who is Artest going to play for? The defending champions Lakers. I hope that keeps in check. He has wanted to be a Laker for sometime and he finally got to be one. He has also wanted a ring for quite sometime. He improved his chances.

Artest has never conformed to fit in anywhere he's been, and I don't expect him to do so now. This is the man that admittedly threw his mood pills away after all. All I'm saying is approach with caution.

[kingmalaki]

Why is everyone saying Artest can handle Paul Pierce better? Did anyone actually catch the games where they matched up in the last few years? Pierce does well on Artest, similar to most other wings with skills and that aren't easily intimidated.

The Lakers are the favorites until someone knocks them off. I'm anxious for next season and hope all of the contenders are at full strength come playoff time. LA caught a lot of breaks on that area this year and I want to see how they do against a team with as much talent, like Boston. Their only challenge last year was whether they chose to bring it every night because they clearly had "more" than every team they played. That shouldn't be the case next year. Teams outside of Boston at least appear to have as much on paper.

I see LA last year as the bully that beat up on small kids. I want to see how they do against guys that will hit back.

[JamStone]

WRONG. Artest has triangle experience already.

Uhh, how much experience?

Not with the Bulls. Tim Floyd didn't run a triangle with the Bulls. Isiah and Rick Carlisle didn't run a triangle. Adelman doesn't run a triangle. Am I missing where he has triangle experience? Where? St. John's?

Being familiar with the triangle and actually having real experience playing it successfully aren't the same thing.

[Spursfan092120]

Why Are People So Worried About the Lakers??? They Are The Champs until Someone beats Them..... Just Like In 2003 when we ended them goin for a 4 Peat..... The Spurs Made alot more Improvements This Off season then The Lakers...... We dont Need to worry about them.... Let them Worry about Us!
You have GOT to learn when to use capital letters and when not to...

[TheMACHINE]

Artest will be defending the opposing teams best player...Kobe can save his energy.

Good game.

[all_heart]

Of course, you're not talking about using that Spur team to out-run the Lakewhow, are you?

Not necessarily, but perhaps a young(er) lineup of TP, GH, Blair, IM, Haislip. Shit sometimes TP is a one man fast break.. YOU know this :wow

[Culburn369]

It doesn't mean he won't be a nut next year. I would be willing to bet that we will hear some Artest stories next year now that he is in LA and the media will be following him like white on rice. Houston did a good job on keeping things underraps, but Houston was not under the same microscope that the Lakers are.

Yep, Media carries the water for the likes of Houston, San Antonio, et al, but, when it comes to the Lakers, it's tattletale time. They're like compelled.

[La Peace]

Lmao @ this thread.

[DrHouse]

The question you should be asking yourself is how can they not be better?

All core players in their primes.
Bynum will come back fully healthy and will gain another year of experience.
Shannon Brown will get another year of experience and hopefully more minutes.
Down years for Sasha and Farmar last season, they have a good shot at improving.
Added Ron Artest to the team, going to add another dimension defensively.

It seems most are banking on the possibility of Ron Artest exploding and wrecking the team from the inside out. If you want to believe that then go ahead, I just don't see it as a very likely possibility. Ron's role will be very specialized, he will not be asked to do the things he had to do in Houston. This is a man who is very motivated to win a championship and he's going to be surrounded by people he admires and respects (Kobe Bryant, Phil Jackson, and Lamar Odom).

IMHO this is the start of the next great Laker dynasty. They will win 3 more championships before all is said and done. Nobody is going to stop this team.

Derek Fisher
Kobe Bryant
Ron Artest
Pau Gasol
Andrew Bynum/Lamar Odom

[robbie380]

The question you should be asking yourself is how can they not be better?

All core players in their primes.
Bynum will come back fully healthy and will gain another year of experience.
Shannon Brown will get another year of experience and hopefully more minutes.
Down years for Sasha and Farmar last season, they have a good shot at improving.
Added Ron Artest to the team, going to add another dimension defensively.

It seems most are banking on the possibility of Ron Artest exploding and wrecking the team from the inside out. If you want to believe that then go ahead, I just don't see it as a very likely possibility. Ron's role will be very specialized, he will not be asked to do the things he had to do in Houston. This is a man who is very motivated to win a championship and he's going to be surrounded by people he admires and respects (Kobe Bryant, Phil Jackson, and Lamar Odom).

IMHO this is the start of the next great Laker dynasty. They will win 3 more championships before all is said and done. Nobody is going to stop this team.

Derek Fisher
Kobe Bryant
Ron Artest
Pau Gasol
Andrew Bynum/Lamar Odom

i disagree that artest adds another defensive dimension to your team. artest is still a top notch defensive player but the guy simply has lost a step on the perimeter due to his bum ankle with the 2 partially torn ligaments. also let's not forget that ron ron was very motivated last year to garner himself a big contract and to show he could be under control yet he still pulled his regular bullshit under a coach that he gets along with and likes. adelman and the rox did a great job of keeping ron's craziness under wraps but the bottom line is i think there is a lot more than just the running out to the bus in his underwear story. clutch from clutchfans has said that there is much more that he heard about from mgmt but would not make public. also let's not forget ron still barely shot 40% from the field in a contract year where he attempted 2 less fgs a game than his previous year.

i think ariza to ron is a lateral move for your team and i think ariza is a more efficient role player on offense for you guys. i love artest's intensity but intensity can't keep you healthy. i know you lakers fans are gonna love this stat but who do you think has played in a great percentage of games in the past 7 seasons....yao ming or ron artest? i am taking out ron's suspended year and yao has played in 83.8% of regular season games while ron ron has played in 78.2% of them.i'm jus sayin :downspin:

on offense ron certainly has the potential to be a much more versatile player than ariza but the guy is a complete black hole. sure he is a better passer than ariza but he has to have the ball in his hands for 20 seconds before he makes the pass. artest is certainly a much much better post player than ariza but the guy simply refuses to make that the bread and butter of his offensive game. if he only took maybe 2 3's a game and instead shot everything within 15 feet the guy would be an excellent offensive option but he just doesn't do it. if phil can somehow convince artest to do that this year then you guys got a steal and are a sure fire championship winner but i just can't see it happening.

anyhow i'm ready to see how this artest/ariza swap works out! :toast

[DrHouse]

i disagree that artest adds another defensive dimension to your team. artest is still a top notch defensive player but the guy simply has lost a step on the perimeter due to his bum ankle with the 2 partially torn ligaments. also let's not forget that ron ron was very motivated last year to garner himself a big contract and to show he could be under control yet he still pulled his regular bullshit under a coach that he gets along with and likes. adelman and the rox did a great job of keeping ron's craziness under wraps but the bottom line is i think there is a lot more than just the running out to the bus in his underwear story. clutch from clutchfans has said that there is much more that he heard about from mgmt but would not make public. also let's not forget ron still barely shot 40% from the field in a contract year where he attempted 2 less fgs a game than his previous year.

i think ariza to ron is a lateral move for your team and i think ariza is a more efficient role player on offense for you guys. i love artest's intensity but intensity can't keep you healthy. i know you lakers fans are gonna love this stat but who do you think has played in a great percentage of games in the past 7 seasons....yao ming or ron artest? i am taking out ron's suspended year and yao has played in 83.8% of regular season games while ron ron has played in 78.2% of them.i'm jus sayin :downspin:

on offense ron certainly has the potential to be a much more versatile player than ariza but the guy is a complete black hole. sure he is a better passer than ariza but he has to have the ball in his hands for 20 seconds before he makes the pass. artest is certainly a much much better post player than ariza but the guy simply refuses to make that the bread and butter of his offensive game. if he only took maybe 2 3's a game and instead shot everything within 15 feet the guy would be an excellent offensive option but he just doesn't do it. if phil can somehow convince artest to do that this year then you guys got a steal and are a sure fire championship winner but i just can't see it happening.

anyhow i'm ready to see how this artest/ariza swap works out! :toast

The one thing you are forgetting is the Lakers don't NEED Ron Artest to be at his best to be a dominant team.

Artest will be a 3rd/4th option at best. His responsibilities on the team will be no more than Ariza's were. Play good D, hit the open shots when they come to you.

[Kobe™]

The question you should be asking yourself is how can they not be better?

All core players in their primes.
Bynum will come back fully healthy and will gain another year of experience.
Shannon Brown will get another year of experience and hopefully more minutes.
Down years for Sasha and Farmar last season, they have a good shot at improving.
Added Ron Artest to the team, going to add another dimension defensively.

It seems most are banking on the possibility of Ron Artest exploding and wrecking the team from the inside out. If you want to believe that then go ahead, I just don't see it as a very likely possibility. Ron's role will be very specialized, he will not be asked to do the things he had to do in Houston. This is a man who is very motivated to win a championship and he's going to be surrounded by people he admires and respects (Kobe Bryant, Phil Jackson, and Lamar Odom).

IMHO this is the start of the next great Laker dynasty. They will win 3 more championships before all is said and done. Nobody is going to stop this team.

Derek Fisher
Kobe Bryant
Ron Artest
Pau Gasol
Andrew Bynum/Lamar Odom

:toast

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3513/3772677153_71d614503c_o.gif

[Scrappy Coco]

The question you should be asking yourself is how can they not be better?

All core players in their primes.
Bynum will come back fully healthy and will gain another year of experience.
Shannon Brown will get another year of experience and hopefully more minutes.
Down years for Sasha and Farmar last season, they have a good shot at improving.
Added Ron Artest to the team, going to add another dimension defensively.

It seems most are banking on the possibility of Ron Artest exploding and wrecking the team from the inside out. If you want to believe that then go ahead, I just don't see it as a very likely possibility. Ron's role will be very specialized, he will not be asked to do the things he had to do in Houston. This is a man who is very motivated to win a championship and he's going to be surrounded by people he admires and respects (Kobe Bryant, Phil Jackson, and Lamar Odom).

IMHO this is the start of the next great Laker dynasty. They will win 3 more championships before all is said and done. Nobody is going to stop this team.

Derek Fisher
Kobe Bryant
Ron Artest
Pau Gasol
Andrew Bynum/Lamar Odom

:lmao Dynasty? Lakers are gonna get stomped out by Boston next year AGAIN. Soft frontline and your leader isn't much of one. Not to mention a quitter

[angelbelow]

Chemistry is important. They have another year under their belt so I think they will be improved.

[JustBlaze]

B: They Aren't.

[robbie380]

The one thing you are forgetting is the Lakers don't NEED Ron Artest to be at his best to be a dominant team.

Artest will be a 3rd/4th option at best. His responsibilities on the team will be no more than Ariza's were. Play good D, hit the open shots when they come to you.

so you are making my case that ariza for artest was a lateral move.

[Man In Black]

WRONG. Artest has triangle experience already.
Let's see...just to show how WRONG YOU ARE AGAIN.
99-00 Chicago Coach Tim Floyd
00-01 Chicago Coach Tim Floyd
01-02 Indiana Coach Isaih Thomas
02-03 Indiana Coach Isaih Thomas
03-04 Indiana Coach Rick Carlisle
04-05 Indiana Coach Rick Carlisle
05-06 Sacramento Coach Rick Adelman
06-07 Sacramento Coach Eric Mussleman/Coach Reggie Theus
07-08 Sacramento Coach Reggie Theus
08-09 Houston Coach Rick Adelman

Not one of those coaches listed are what you call Tri-Primary coaches.
So when, Nurse...when?

[23LeBronJames23]

:toast

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3513/3772677153_71d614503c_o.gif

ddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
shes fine

[Jloyola]

They wont be better cause team depends on kobe and as you can see kobe is getting older and worser...

A product of the Cleveland school system :lol

[KSeal]

Let's see...just to show how WRONG YOU ARE AGAIN.
99-00 Chicago Coach Tim Floyd
00-01 Chicago Coach Tim Floyd
01-02 Indiana Coach Isaih Thomas
02-03 Indiana Coach Isaih Thomas
03-04 Indiana Coach Rick Carlisle
04-05 Indiana Coach Rick Carlisle
05-06 Sacramento Coach Rick Adelman
06-07 Sacramento Coach Eric Mussleman/Coach Reggie Theus
07-08 Sacramento Coach Reggie Theus
08-09 Houston Coach Rick Adelman

Not one of those coaches listed are what you call Tri-Primary coaches.
So when, Nurse...when?

I'm pretty sure House is referring to when Ron was in Chicago cause they still used the triangle there after Phil left. If what they were doing then was anything close to what Phil is using in LA now is beyond me but Ron has played some in the triangle.

[The Franchise]

I'm pretty sure House is referring to when Ron was in Chicago cause they still used the triangle there after Phil left. If what they were doing then was anything close to what Phil is using in LA now is beyond me but Ron has played some in the triangle.

He was on a team that ran Adelmans system for 3 years as well, but the dummy doesn't have any experience in the motion offense either.

[jonnybravo]

My God, the Ariza ballswinging/nuthugging has even reached Spurstalk.

Ridiculous and embarrassing to witness.

[OceaNus]

:lmao Dynasty? Lakers are gonna get stomped out by Boston next year AGAIN. Soft frontline and your leader isn't much of one. Not to mention a quitter

Boston for all intents and purposes has gotten much worse since their title. LA on the other hand has gotten better with the addition of ron artest who will not only be on paul pierce instead of luke walton or kobe, but also force pierce off kobe unless you want ray allen guarding artest.

[2Cleva]

Let's see...just to show how WRONG YOU ARE AGAIN.
99-00 Chicago Coach Tim Floyd
00-01 Chicago Coach Tim Floyd
01-02 Indiana Coach Isaih Thomas
02-03 Indiana Coach Isaih Thomas
03-04 Indiana Coach Rick Carlisle
04-05 Indiana Coach Rick Carlisle
05-06 Sacramento Coach Rick Adelman
06-07 Sacramento Coach Eric Mussleman/Coach Reggie Theus
07-08 Sacramento Coach Reggie Theus
08-09 Houston Coach Rick Adelman

Not one of those coaches listed are what you call Tri-Primary coaches.
So when, Nurse...when?

Fail.

Floyd ran it his first 2 years in Chicago, Artest being there for that 2nd year.

[Scrappy Coco]

Boston for all intents and purposes has gotten much worse since their title. LA on the other hand has gotten better with the addition of ron artest who will not only be on paul pierce instead of luke walton or kobe, but also force pierce off kobe unless you want ray allen guarding artest.
Worse? How so? Lakers frontline will still bullied by Boston and with the addition of Sheed the soft frontline will be exposed even more. Guarding Artest won't be that big of a problem as he will not win the game for the Lakers. In fact he can shoot away he's not a offensive problem like you would hope.

[JamStone]

You can pretty much throw out any notion that a player has "experience" in an offense when that team goes 15-67 and 17-65. When a team is that bad, they aren't running any offense. It's just shit. Let's be real.

[DrHouse]

You can pretty much throw out any notion that a player has "experience" in an offense when that team goes 15-67 and 17-65. When a team is that bad, they aren't running any offense. It's just shit. Let's be real.

Bullshit. You were wrong and you are too pussy to admit it. You said Ron had no triangle experience, I called you out on it because Ron does in fact have triangle experience from his early Chicago days.

[Culburn369]

Bullshit. You were wrong and you are too pussy to admit it.

The Dr., with the accurate diagnosis.

[BUMP]

:lol @ Culburn

[all_heart]

Bullshit. You were wrong and you are too pussy to admit it. You said Ron had no triangle experience, I called you out on it because Ron does in fact have triangle experience from his early Chicago days.

Why are you bringing up old shit?! That was years ago, he hasn't had to use it in forever.... he's slightly familiar at best. I got shit loads of math experience, but guess what that years ago, guess what I remember?

[Culburn369]

I got shit loads of math experience, but guess what that years ago, guess what I remember?

Your chronic inability to win 2 in-a-row?

[JamStone]

Bullshit. You were wrong and you are too pussy to admit it. You said Ron had no triangle experience, I called you out on it because Ron does in fact have triangle experience from his early Chicago days.

My initial comment:


I think there are legitimate questions and criticisms that can be made about Artest joining the Lakers. Individually, Artest is a better player than Ariza (even though some might try to argue otherwise). He is. Artest is a better individual player. However, one can argue that he might not fit with the Lakers as well as Ariza did last year. That's a legitimate criticism that has to be proven next year. Until they actually get on the court, it's not a ridiculous notion to question that Artest might not fit as well with the Lakers as Ariza did. Artest likes the basketball in his hands on offense a lot as well. He also likes to iso against defensive mismatches. He's not exactly the best spot-up jump shooter. He hasn't really played in a structured offense like the triangle before (although the Lakers do break off from the triangle much more than in previous seasons). Those are legitimate claims why Artest might not be the best addition to the Lakers. And, that doesn't even go into other potential issues he might cause with his personality.

Talent wise, the Lakers should be as good as last year, maybe even slightly better. But you cannot ignore chemistry on and off the court. Trevor Ariza fit well for the Lakers in both regards. Artest might, might not.

The Lakers are and should be the favorites still in the West. But it's fair to question if they're necessarily a better team than last year.

Are you really going to argue whatever he played in Chicago under Tim Floyd was a structured offense on 15-67 and 17-65 teams? Kindly get the fuck out of here.

[Culburn369]

Are you really going to argue whatever he played in Chicago under Tim Floyd was a structured offense on 15-67 and 17-65 teams? Kindly get the fuck out of here.


I God's, Jam, just admit yer wrong. It won't be the end of the world.

[JamStone]

Honestly tell me the 1999-2001 Chicago Bulls ran a structured offense and I'd happily be willing admit I was wrong.

[Culburn369]

"He hasn't really played in a structured offense like the triangle before"

And he has, Jam.

[tlongII]

Who cares? I certainly don't. I see the Lakers being better only if Bynum can stay healthy for the entire season. Artest isn't a concern to the Blazers. B-Roy will light him up.

[Culburn369]

Artest isn't a concern to the Blazers. B-Roy will light him up.

True, but, what will you do the other 80 games when the Lakers ain't in Portland and you (both fans & players alike) have to get off yer lazy asses?

[tlongII]

True, but, what will you do the other 80 games when the Lakers ain't in Portland and you (both fans & players alike) have to get off yer lazy asses?

:lol Dude, we won 54 games last year! We should improve by 10 games with the addition of Miller, the progression of Oden, and the return of Martell Webster. You guys are in trouble. Seriously.

[JustBlaze]

:lol Dude, we won 54 games last year! We should improve by 10 games with the addition of Miller, the progression of Oden, and the return of Martell Webster. You guys are in trouble. Seriously.
Correction: 53. That blowout rape-fest y'all handed the Nugz in their final game was a gimme. At least that's what I like to think.:depressed

[JustBlaze]

You guys are no longer a surprise team. Thirty of those wins were on teams that slept on you. You'll place around sixth this year. Be happy with that, cause you all made no improvements at all. Miller will find himself on the bench if he doesn't learn to hit that mid-rage. We're going to sag off him for sure.

Over who? That scrub Blake?:lmao:lmao

[tlongII]

You guys are no longer a surprise team. Thirty of those wins were on teams that slept on you. You'll place around sixth this year. Be happy with that, cause you all made no improvements at all. Miller will find himself on the bench if he doesn't learn to hit that mid-rage. We're going to sag off him for sure.

:lmao

Miller hits the mid-range jumper just find. He just can't hit the 3, but we have other shooters that can do that. Miller will push the tempo, drive, and drop dimes to our bigs.

[daslicer]

You guys are no longer a surprise team. Thirty of those wins were on teams that slept on you. You'll place around sixth this year. Be happy with that, cause you all made no improvements at all. Miller will find himself on the bench if he doesn't learn to hit that mid-rage. We're going to sag off him for sure.

You really are a dipshit considering they weren't really a suprise team this year. During the '07-'08 season they sneaked up on the league and won something like 16-20 in a row at one point of time. Heading into last year everybody knew they were going to fairly good and thus were able to prepare for them a lot better and they still won 54 games. They will be a thorn for the Lakers if they meet them in the playoffs much like the Mavs have always been for the spurs. Pray the Lakers don't end up playing them in the playoffs.

[Culburn369]

Dude, we won 54 games last year! We should improve by 10 games with the addition of Miller, the progression of Oden, and the return of Martell Webster. You guys are in trouble. Seriously.

But, you can't be taken seriously. Frankly, you're part of the Western Conference Kit & Kaboodle. There is the Lakers & the Spurs. And then the Kit & Kaboodle.

But, knock yerself out. You won't intrude.

Let us proceed...

[tlongII]

But, you can't be taken seriously. Frankly, you're part of the Western Conference Kit & Kaboodle. There is the Lakers & the Spurs. And then the Kit & Kaboodle.

But, knock yerself out. You won't intrude.

Let us proceed...

Dream on hosehead.

[DrHouse]

Honestly tell me the 1999-2001 Chicago Bulls ran a structured offense and I'd happily be willing admit I was wrong.

Face the fact that you are wrong, you look like a fool every time you try and change the parameters of the argument to fit your POV. You said Ron Artest has never played in a structured offense like the triangle, and you were dead wrong. He played in the triangle offense in his early Chicago days. It doesn't matter if those teams sucked shit, they still ran the triangle and thus Artest should be somewhat familiar with how it works when he comes to training camp here in LA.

[all_heart]

Face the fact that you are wrong, you look like a fool every time you try and change the parameters of the argument to fit your POV. You said Ron Artest has never played in a structured offense like the triangle, and you were dead wrong. He played in the triangle offense in his early Chicago days. It doesn't matter if those teams sucked shit, they still ran the triangle and thus Artest should be somewhat familiar with how it works when he comes to training camp here in LA.

It doesn't matter if he re-learns the triangle in a day, he's probably going to end up being a distraction one way or another next year. Kobe won't accept someone else getting all the attention so he'll probably throw him under the bus before the All-Star break. Face it Ariza was a better fit for the Lakers especially long term. Right now most Laker fans are just happy Artest won't be all up in Kobe's grill next year in the playoffs (just probably in practice).:rollin

[DrHouse]

It doesn't matter if he re-learns the triangle in a day, he's probably going to end up being a distraction one way or another next year. Kobe won't accept someone else getting all the attention so he'll probably throw him under the bus before the All-Star break. Face it Ariza was a better fit for the Lakers especially long term. Right now most Laker fans are just happy Artest won't be all up in Kobe's grill next year in the playoffs (just probably in practice).:rollin

Considering the fact that most Laker fans wanted LO traded for Artest a few summers ago I'm going to have to disagree.

The reality is legions of fans are desperately trying to convince themselves that Artest is going to be a poor fit for the Lakers. The reality is he is the exact kind of player they have been missing ever since Rick Fox and Robert Horry left.

[all_heart]

Considering the fact that most Laker fans wanted LO traded for Artest a few summers ago I'm going to have to disagree.

The reality is legions of fans are desperately trying to convince themselves that Artest is going to be a poor fit for the Lakers. The reality is he is the exact kind of player they have been missing ever since Rick Fox and Robert Horry left.

Well I used to want Sjax back a few years ago myself.. but not anymore!

What the hell do Rick Fox and Horry have in common w/Artest?!

[Culburn369]

The reality is legions of fans are desperately trying to convince themselves that Artest is going to be a poor fit for the Lakers. The reality is he is the exact kind of player they have been missing ever since Rick Fox and Robert Horry left.

The good Doctor=the voice of reason & moderation in Championship times. He's to this Board & to Laker fandom what "Jarrod Barkley" was to the "Big Valley." He's our finest Lakers fellow:

1. DrHouse
2. Luva

[all_heart]

The good Doctor=the voice of reason & moderation in Championship times. He's to this Board & to Laker fandom what "Jarrod Barkley" was to the "Big Valley." He's our finest Lakers fellow:

1. DrHouse
2. Luva

sorry don't have my senseless blabber decoder... can you lay off the dope for awhile.. it's fucking you up big time! :hat

[Culburn369]

And I'll take the "Heath Barkley" part, bastard son, spawned from the very testi's of "Tom Barkley" who is played by Dr. Buss. Jarrod & Nick/Dr. & Luva are denying me my rightful portion of the Barkley/Buss trust fund. Ipso facto, "Audra Barkley", played by ingenue Kori is fair game for her non brother Heath/Me and I'll serve as her chamber pot.

[The Franchise]

He might have triangle experience but the Bulls wanted him gone for a reason. A bad team does not offer a young athletic player like Artest for nothing unless there is a major problem.

They let him walk for the same reason the Rockets only wanted to give him a one year MLE contract. He is talented, but he is to stubborn (or dumb) to conform to anyones system. He is always going to do his own thing, and that may end up being a problem in LA. I could be wrong, but his entire career says I'm not.

[all_heart]

They let him walk for the same reason the Rockets only wanted to give him a one year MLE contract. He is talented, but he is to stubborn (or dumb) to conform to anyones system. He is always going to do his own thing, and that may end up being a problem in LA. I could be wrong, but his entire career says I'm not.

Exactly.. but all these Laker fans think "he can change".. just like a hopeless woman!

[Culburn369]

They let him walk for the same reason the Rockets only wanted to give him a one year MLE contract. He is talented, but he is to stubborn (or dumb) to conform to anyones system. He is always going to do his own thing, and that may end up being a problem in LA. I could be wrong, but his entire career says I'm not.

We had no other choice:

1. Odom had a stellar '09 Playoffs.

2. Odom recruited Artest to the Lakers.

3. Buss attained wood.

4. Buss dropped Ariza just a smidgeon East of Bakersfield.

5. Buss drove back alone to LA in the car pool lane with Ariza's agent acting as car pool lane dummy.

6. Buss made Odom say "uncle."

[Dunc n Dave]

The good Doctor=the voice of reason & moderation in Championship times. He's to this Board & to Laker fandom what "Jarrod Barkley" was to the "Big Valley." He's our finest Lakers fellow:

1. DrHouse
2. Luva

Cul, gettin his ass smoocher on...

http://lyfesimplified.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/ass.jpg

[Culburn369]

Cul, gettin his ass smoocher on...

http://lyfesimplified.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/ass.jpg

LMAO! Welcome back, Dunc!

[Dunc n Dave]

LMAO! Welcome back, Dunc!

Only until Tuesday, then I'm off the grid for a few days.
I'll be soakin up some sun at the beach with the family next week.

Enjoy your hiatus from me ...

[The Franchise]

We had no other choice:

1. Odom had a stellar '09 Playoffs.

2. Odom recruited Artest to the Lakers.

3. Buss attained wood.

4. Buss dropped Ariza just a smidgeon East of Bakersfield.

5. Buss drove back alone to LA in the car pool lane with Ariza's agent acting as car pool lane dummy.

6. Buss made Odom say "uncle."

Don't take what I'm saying the wrong way. Artest is an upgrade to Ariza, but it may not show because of his personality. Nobody is going to change who he is not Lamar, not Kobe, not Phil. I felt the same way most Laker fans do this time last season. I told myself he just needs to get on a winning team and he will sacrifice his game to win. WRONG!!! If you have the time, go check my posts starting from about January. This is around the time I started calling him Dinoboy.

The name was given because he had a bad habit of ignoring the offense to showcase Ron Ron for about six or seven plays in a row. This would all to often cause us to lose games we should have easily won. When he is in this mode if he touches the ball it stops, and he will be the one taking the shot. I have seen Yao have his man sealed four feet from the basket, and begging for the ball, and not get the pass because Ron is in the "zone". The Lakers should have signed him to a much shorter contract, and I have a feeling they will be missing Ariza sooner rather than later.

[KSeal]

Exactly.. but all these Laker fans think "he can change".. just like a hopeless woman!

The only reason some of us think that is cause he's on a team with the player he respects the most in Kobe, one of the coaches he respects the most is PJ and he has a friend he's known since he was 12 in Lamar Odom not to mention the fact he's on a team that has a chance to win a ring and he knows this is his last chance to win a ring. Wether he'll change or not, nobody really knows but looking at the situation there is a lot of hope for it. Either way it was let Ariza walk and make Luke Walton your starting SF, with Morrison his back up or sign Ron Artest. I'm much happier with the second option even with the possible risks.

[Scrappy Coco]

Considering the fact that most Laker fans wanted LO traded for Artest a few summers ago I'm going to have to disagree.

The reality is legions of fans are desperately trying to convince themselves that Artest is going to be a poor fit for the Lakers. The reality is he is the exact kind of player they have been missing ever since Rick Fox and Robert Horry left.
Yet the Lakers are still soft and will be owned by Boston again...

[cobbler]

Don't take what I'm saying the wrong way. Artest is an upgrade to Ariza, but it may not show because of his personality. Nobody is going to change who he is not Lamar, not Kobe, not Phil. I felt the same way most Laker fans do this time last season. I told myself he just needs to get on a winning team and he will sacrifice his game to win. WRONG!!! If you have the time, go check my posts starting from about January. This is around the time I started calling him Dinoboy.

The name was given because he had a bad habit of ignoring the offense to showcase Ron Ron for about six or seven plays in a row. This would all to often cause us to lose games we should have easily won. When he is in this mode if he touches the ball it stops, and he will be the one taking the shot. I have seen Yao have his man sealed four feet from the basket, and begging for the ball, and not get the pass because Ron is in the "zone". The Lakers should have signed him to a much shorter contract, and I have a feeling they will be missing Ariza sooner rather than later.

The difference is, Ron will not be the 2nd, or even 3rd best player on the Lakers. He will fill his role or he will sit. You will see him playing with the 2nd unit more than in past as he gives the lakers another person other than Lamar that can create his own shot with said unit.

What cracks me up here is how everyone thinks the Lakers need Ron to be a scorer. Everyone has the Lakers imploding because of his quirkiness.

The Lakers don't need Ron to do anything more than play within the system (PJ will have no problem getting him to do so or he will sit) and play tough D.

What was the one thing everyone said tha Lakers lacked last year even as they were on their way to the title. Toughness and attitude.

Artest brings both and that has to be seen as upgrade to the team.

I guess we will all see.... until the games are played... it's all conjecture.

[Unholy Turkey]

The only reason some of us think that is cause he's on a team with the player he respects the most in Kobe, one of the coaches he respects the most is PJ and he has a friend he's known since he was 12 in Lamar Odom not to mention the fact he's on a team that has a chance to win a ring and he knows this is his last chance to win a ring. Wether he'll change or not, nobody really knows but looking at the situation there is a lot of hope for it. Either way it was let Ariza walk and make Luke Walton your starting SF, with Morrison his back up or sign Ron Artest. I'm much happier with the second option even with the possible risks.

He was really kissing up to Rick Adelman, who is possibly his most respected coach (And the biggest reason the Artest trade last year was done.), Yao, T-Mac, Battier, and Rafer (Who was his New York homeboy.)

I had the same feelings that The Franchise had the summer we traded for him. I was jumping up and down when I heard that we got Artest. It had me thinking about crazy things. Maybe T-Mac and Yao can be healthy, or maybe Rafer can shoot above 40%! :rolleyes

If everything works out for the Lakers and Ron, then they'll be undeniably scary and the title will be theirs to lose. Their biggest weakness (Toughness) will be cured and they'll have a defensive reputation.

IF everything works out.

[OceaNus]

Don't take what I'm saying the wrong way. Artest is an upgrade to Ariza, but it may not show because of his personality. Nobody is going to change who he is not Lamar, not Kobe, not Phil. I felt the same way most Laker fans do this time last season. I told myself he just needs to get on a winning team and he will sacrifice his game to win. WRONG!!! If you have the time, go check my posts starting from about January. This is around the time I started calling him Dinoboy.

The name was given because he had a bad habit of ignoring the offense to showcase Ron Ron for about six or seven plays in a row. This would all to often cause us to lose games we should have easily won. When he is in this mode if he touches the ball it stops, and he will be the one taking the shot. I have seen Yao have his man sealed four feet from the basket, and begging for the ball, and not get the pass because Ron is in the "zone". The Lakers should have signed him to a much shorter contract, and I have a feeling they will be missing Ariza sooner rather than later.

Well you have to take into account what his team asks of him. Last season the rockets had no clear pecking order. Tmac out of the picture, and Yao would be great early but then fade late. Who gets the ball? When Yao went down he felt he could lead the team and play like he did in the first two games vs LA in the playoffs. In LA there is a very clear pecking order. Sure Artest will take some retarded shots but guess who will be in his ear the second he does and Phil will bench him if he pisses him off.

That being said, I'm excited about him coming to LA. Sure we may win less regular season games because of him, but he makes us a better team against teams that gave us trouble. Artest will force Pierce off Kobe unless they want ray being muscled around, guard melo, guard VC, and guard lebron. Not only will they have to go through him on their way to the rim, gasol/bynum/odom will be waiting for them.:king

[Scrappy Coco]

Well, I got us penciled in for the next two, with ease. Just like old days.
Why? Boston will be healthy next year and stomp the Fakers out again. Then take your mothers to a nice seafood restaurant and never call her back. That's how the Cs roll...

[OceaNus]

Why? Boston will be healthy next year and stomp the Fakers out again. Then take your mothers to a nice seafood restaurant and never call her back. That's how the Cs roll...

They're also old enough to take my grandmother out too! Pierce can't light up scrubs like luke walton again.

[KSeal]

You have no faith in your team at all.

:lmao My thoughts exactly.

[Killakobe81]

What IS missing in this analysis of numbers and PER is that effect that a GREAT defender has on the opposing team. I agree Ariza is faster a better leaper and longer ...
Ron is stronger tougher and can limit a great offensive player with FAR LESS help ...
The 3 greatest threats to the Lakers are:
1. Celts Pierce vs. Ron
2. Spurs RJ vs. Ron
3. Magic Lewis vs. Ron
4. Nuggs Melo vs. Ron
5. Cavs Lebron vs. Ron

Out of those 5 you could argue that MAYBE ariza's lenth would be better for Lewis and that is it ...team wise we take a dip help wise ...but 1 on 1 we are better ...

[Scrappy Coco]

You have no faith in your team at all.
Not a Spurs fan....

[all_heart]

I don't think one player can inspire toughness. Toughness is an attitude for the whole team to take on together. I don't see anybody "getting tough" because of Artest. Gasol, no way.. Bynum will foul out in 1st half, Lamar? Nah, he got his contract already. Vujacic? no he already bitches enough as it is? Walton, yeah right! Shannon Brown.. maybe. Kobe? it's a long season he needs to pace himself. Here's a question.. how long can Artest go w/Kobe riding the whole team's ass hard? Some people no matter what the cause, just can't handle being disciplined too hard for too long.

[Culburn369]

Some people no matter what the cause, just can't handle being disciplined too hard for too long.

You'll notice 'em right off:

* they'll blow their whole wad all over the sheets when the Lakers show up and then sleep for two weeks worth of games thereafter.

* they'll tromp that pedal hard, real hard, face 'em up and bust their ass to the rim...then locked in with their own accomplishment find they're terriby afraid & chronologically incapable of repeating it.

[Mori Chu]

Here's my two cents on Artest. He may end up being better than Ariza, may end up being worse. But we know that the Lakers as built in 08-09 were good enough to win a title. If they'd just kept Ariza, we'd still know that team was title worthy. But by swapping in Artest, now we don't really know what they are capable of. The uncertainty gets me excited. I'm so glad they didn't bring back Ariza, because now I have hope that catastrophe may occur. Seeing Phil or Kobe go ballistic because Ron-Ron broke a play for the 100th time would bring a tear to me' eye.

[TheManFromAcme]

What Artest actually brings to the table regarding playing with his new teammates is yet to be seen. With that said, Rick Adelman is NO Phil Jackson. Jackson's ability to work with loonies is well chronicled.

Assume, analyze and dissect all you want you guys in here with Crystal balls that look into the future. Phil Jackson will end up being the steady hand that keeps Ron-Ron in check and extract out of him what probably other coaches could never do.

I am confident that Artest will do just fine, flourish and surprise many people.
Lets just wait and see. :toast

[all_heart]

What Artest actually brings to the table regarding playing with his new teammates is yet to be seen. With that said, Rick Adelman is NO Phil Jackson. Jackson's ability to work with loonies is well chronicled.

Assume, analyze and dissect all you want you guys in here with Crystal balls that look into the future. Phil Jackson will end up being the steady hand that keeps Ron-Ron in check and extract out of him what probably other coaches could never do.

I am confident that Artest will do just fine, flourish and surprise many people.
Lets just wait and see. :toast

Talking about Rodman? Rodman came from a different era, the late 80's bad boy club where you had to keep in line. Artest is his own beast, each "loonie" is different. Rodmans' sole job in basketball was to rebound and defend, never looked for his own shot like Ron. So if Ron can just play D and rebound while minimizing his trigger finger, he may do alright. Also PJ is not young anymore, does he still have the patience to put up with guys like Ron? If PJ can't help, maybe some meds can! Everybody will have to wait and see..

[TheMACHINE]

Not a Spurs fan....

Your team name says otherwise. First time internet user?

[hater]

Here's my two cents on Artest. He may end up being better than Ariza, may end up being worse. But we know that the Lakers as built in 08-09 were good enough to win a title. If they'd just kept Ariza, we'd still know that team was title worthy. But by swapping in Artest, now we don't really know what they are capable of. The uncertainty gets me excited. I'm so glad they didn't bring back Ariza, because now I have hope that catastrophe may occur. Seeing Phil or Kobe go ballistic because Ron-Ron broke a play for the 100th time would bring a tear to me' eye.

they were title-worthy only because other top 2 teams had devastating injuries.

[TheManFromAcme]

Talking about Rodman? Rodman came from a different era, the late 80's bad boy club where you had to keep in line. Artest is his own beast, each "loonie" is different. Rodmans' sole job in basketball was to rebound and defend, never looked for his own shot like Ron. So if Ron can just play D and rebound while minimizing his trigger finger, he may do alright. Also PJ is not young anymore, does he still have the patience to put up with guys like Ron? If PJ can't help, maybe some meds can! Everybody will have to wait and see..

I am not sure that eras/periods/decades has anything to do with loonies. A loony is a loony no matter what year or period. (:downspin:).

I think that a "older" Phil is a much more patient Phil and more adept at working his magic on these head cases.

Besides, I am sure there is a nice padded room deep in the bowels of Staples for Ron-Ron should he pull any mental caper. :p:

[Mori Chu]

they were title-worthy only because other top 2 teams had devastating injuries.

The Celtics, yes; but the Magic? No way. I don't think the Magic can claim they had a "devastating" injury vs. the Lakers. Jameer was back on the court and played decently well for them in the minutes he was out there.

[TheMACHINE]

The Celtics, yes; but the Magic? No way. I don't think the Magic can claim they had a "devastating" injury vs. the Lakers. Jameer was back on the court and played decently well for them in the minutes he was out there.

All other fans can do is pray that Ron Ron has a melt down for thier own team to have a chance. :toast

[all_heart]

All other fans can do is pray that Ron Ron has a melt down for thier own team to have a chance. :toast

HAHA, I bet all you Laker fans are saying just the opposite for the Lakers to have another chance.. There's no way Kobe, Pau, and Lamar can take you back to the Finals with that bench!:wow

[TheManFromAcme]

HAHA, I bet all you Laker fans are saying just the opposite for the Lakers to have another chance.. There's no way Kobe, Pau, and Lamar can take you back to the Finals with that bench!:wow

Uh, besides Trevor and Sun, isn't the Lakers bench going to be pretty much the same? The LOB bunch? The Laker bench doesn't have to hit the floor having all star performances each night. I'll be the first to laugh at Sasha as far as his 2009 performance but lets not kid ourselves of what the kid is capable of doing. Put the blinders aside, put on your "purist" specs and see Sasha for what he is; a more than capable player. Roger Mason wasn't exactly Mr. consistent throughout the playoffs either. I guess all I am trying to convey here is that the Laker bench is probably not worth a second or third glance but to label them keystone cops is not accurate. I think this bench along with the scoring of Morrison and Sasha (not to mention his decent defense) will surprise some this upcoming season. Lets wait and see. :toast

[TheMACHINE]

HAHA, I bet all you Laker fans are saying just the opposite for the Lakers to have another chance.. There's no way Kobe, Pau, and Lamar can take you back to the Finals with that bench!:wow

seems like you forgot other players in the Lakers....but i dont blame you...it helps your arguement if you only list 3 players, one being a bench player in Lamar. :toast

[TheMACHINE]

Roger Mason wasn't exactly Mr. consistent throughout the playoffs either. I guess all I am trying to convey here is that the Laker bench is probably not worth a second or third glance but to label them keystone cops is not accurate. I think this bench along with the scoring of Morrison and Sasha (not to mention his decent defense) will surprise some this upcoming season. Lets wait and see. :toast

You mean the playoff in which the Spurs won one game?

[all_heart]

seems like you forgot other players in the Lakers....but i dont blame you...it helps your arguement if you only list 3 players, one being a bench player in Lamar. :toast

Lamar .. one decent bench player.. big deal. Still nothing to worry about, you need at least 3 decent players you can rely on to maybe say you have a "bench". Sasha.. yea right, Lakers will probably trade his ass away, I would. Shannon Brown is decent.. who else?

[all_heart]

You mean the playoff in which the Spurs won one game?

We spurs fans admit it, we weren't getting too far in the playoffs, even w/Manu being healthy, we were way too thin in the 4/5 positions. Mason wasn't the same once he had to play backup PG, he was taken out of his rhythm. This year he should be back in full form.. :wow

[Jacko]

We spurs fans admit it, we weren't getting too far in the playoffs, even w/Manu being healthy, we were way too thin in the 4/5 positions. Mason wasn't the same once he had to play backup PG, he was taken out of his rhythm. This year he should be back in full form.. :wow

The operative word here is *should* be. Like it or not the Spurs still have a lot of question marks. Duncan looked very unlike himself during the 2nd half of the season and Ginobili was completely MIA again. The Spurs need both of them to be at peak form to go all the way. They also need the rest of their acquisitions to fit in perfectly chemistry wise.

The Lakers don't need nearly as much work. They are bringing back the same core that won the 2009 NBA championship and adding Ron Artest. And they were the best team in the NBA last season despite your myopic rantings about injuries to the top teams. You don't win 65 games if you're a scrub team that got lucky due to other team's misfortunes. Need I remind you that LA also had a 4-0 record against both BOS and CLE? I'm not sure how much else they could have proven, they didn't get to choose who they played in the playoffs.

They now have something that should scare the rest of the league, championship mettle. And trust me, it goes a long ways. With a fully healthy core and the addition of Ron Artest the Lakers will be a better team than they were last season.

Quite frankly, it's ridiculous that we're even discussing this.

[23LeBronJames23]

All other fans can do is pray that Ron Ron has a melt down for thier own team to have a chance. :toast

lol he is a meltdown

[tlongII]

Wasn't there a team the Lakers went 2-2 against last year?

[BUMP]

Spur Fans are cool and everything but you guys are not contenders.

If Tony, Tim, Manu, and Jefferson all stay healthy and all have breakout years then they might have a shot. Actually if this team was assembled 3 years ago they would have a chance, but the league is just way too deep now with Boston, Orlando, LA, Dallas, Portland, Denver, and Cleveland are all capable of knocking them out.

Let me remind you that the chances of SA being healthy come playoff time are slim to none.

[DrHouse]

This thread just reeks of sorry grapes if you ask me.

[cobbler]

Wasn't there a team the Lakers went 2-2 against last year?

I believe there was.... Most the year the Lakers played down to the teams that were far inferior. All was proven out with the first round exits.

[cobbler]

As for all the sour grapes about injuries and how the Lakers lucked into the title... come on. If that's how its tabulated then fine. Take away last years and well take the 1989 championship where scott and magic pulled up lame in the finals and 2004 when Karl did.

16 titles baby!!!!!!!!!!!


Friggen sour grapes morons...

[TheMACHINE]

Wasn't there a team the Lakers went 2-2 against last year?

there was a team we went 0-2 against last year and we saw what happened to them at the playoffs.

[all_heart]

The operative word here is *should* be. Like it or not the Spurs still have a lot of question marks. Duncan looked very unlike himself during the 2nd half of the season and Ginobili was completely MIA again. The Spurs need both of them to be at peak form to go all the way. They also need the rest of their acquisitions to fit in perfectly chemistry wise.

The Lakers don't need nearly as much work. They are bringing back the same core that won the 2009 NBA championship and adding Ron Artest. And they were the best team in the NBA last season despite your myopic rantings about injuries to the top teams. You don't win 65 games if you're a scrub team that got lucky due to other team's misfortunes. Need I remind you that LA also had a 4-0 record against both BOS and CLE? I'm not sure how much else they could have proven, they didn't get to choose who they played in the playoffs.

They now have something that should scare the rest of the league, championship mettle. And trust me, it goes a long ways. With a fully healthy core and the addition of Ron Artest the Lakers will be a better team than they were last season.

Quite frankly, it's ridiculous that we're even discussing this.

First off, Lakers won last year fair and square, every year teams will have key players that will fall to injury. Last year was our turn.

Duncan had to shoulder the load too much last year, injuries to TP and Manu are not easily overcome. Manu was MIA, due to injury NOT performance. With our new additions, I (if I was Pop) would rest TD on at least one game of back-to-backs. Just compare our front line from last year to this year: 09 -TD, Thomas, Fab, and Bonner. 10-TD, Ian, Blair, Dice, Ratlif and Bonner. We also got Haislip too, guy says he's ready to show what he has. So an improvement huh? Not to mention we improved in ALL other areas from last year..

Every team needs to be in peak form to go all the way and no team has perfect chemistry. Winning the title takes a combination of things besides talent. Health, chemistry, peaking at the right time, leadership etc.. are all critical.

Championship mettle?! We got that too! Our core of TP, TD, and Manu knows what winning is all about. Their hearts are about as big as anybody else in the league if not bigger. So if you look at last year, yea we were way off. This year.. I LOVE our chances. It's gonna be a wild ride! :flag:

[all_heart]

As for all the sour grapes about injuries and how the Lakers lucked into the title... come on. If that's how its tabulated then fine. Take away last years and well take the 1989 championship where scott and magic pulled up lame in the finals and 2004 when Karl did.

16 titles baby!!!!!!!!!!!


Friggen sour grapes morons...

For Karl, it's called karma. That guy was a douch and never deserved to win it all. Besides the Pistons that year were just on a roll, they were way too motivated and had too much swagger to lose.

[tlongII]

there was a team we went 0-2 against last year and we saw what happened to them at the playoffs.

Too bad we didn't get to see what would have happened if you played the team you went 2-2 against in the playoffs...

[23LeBronJames23]

Too bad we didn't get to see what would have happened if you played the team you went 2-2 against in the playoffs...

i wanted Portland to play LA in the playoffs.
Would of been imteresting to watch

[bostonguy]

The Lakers don't need nearly as much work. They are bringing back the same core that won the 2009 NBA championship and adding Ron Artest. And they were the best team in the NBA last season despite your myopic rantings about injuries to the top teams. You don't win 65 games if you're a scrub team that got lucky due to other team's misfortunes. Need I remind you that LA also had a 4-0 record against both BOS and CLE? I'm not sure how much else they could have proven, they didn't get to choose who they played in the playoffs.

They now have something that should scare the rest of the league, championship mettle. And trust me, it goes a long ways. With a fully healthy core and the addition of Ron Artest the Lakers will be a better team than they were last season.

Quite frankly, it's ridiculous that we're even discussing this.


Out of all of the elites, LA IMO has the least number of concerns. Health, staying hungry, and how Artest fits in just about covers any question marks for the Lakers. They have the toughness needed and that championship mettle you just mentioned.

Spurs: Can the youngsters step up their game especially in the playoffs? Can Manu and Duncan stay healthy? Will their D be the type fans have seen in the past?

Celts: How effective will Sheed be? Will Ray Allen decline this year even more? Can KG stay healthy?

Cavs: Will Shaq manage to stay healthy? How will he do being near 38 years old? Will Moon help them much? Can Mo Williams handle the playoff pressure and back up his smack talk? Can Coach Brown recover from losing Kuster? Will age and lack of versatile players bite the Cavs in the ass in May?

Magic: How will VC do under Stan? Will Howard have any kind of a consistent low post game? Can Jameer stay healthy?

[La Peace]

I like this boston guy. He keeps it real

[cobbler]

For Karl, it's called karma. That guy was a douch and never deserved to win it all. Besides the Pistons that year were just on a roll, they were way too motivated and had too much swagger to lose.

The point was to show how absurd it is to blame injuries and taint some other teams success. I hated Malone and was not happy he became a Laker. Regardless, his injury was a key to that series. But you tip your hat to the Pistons, say well done, and move on. To sit and say their title is meaningless because the Lakers suffed and injury is petty and the people that post as such are just jealous haters.

[all_heart]

The point was to show how absurd it is to blame injuries and taint some other teams success. I hated Malone and was not happy he became a Laker. Regardless, his injury was a key to that series. But you tip your hat to the Pistons, say well done, and move on. To sit and say their title is meaningless because the Lakers suffed and injury is petty and the people that post as such are just jealous haters.

Just because I'm not a Lakers fan doesn't make me a jealous hater. I never said the Pistions title was meaningless, they played great that year. Lakers beat whoever was in front of them and won.. they were fortunate not to have any major injuries last year.. If the Spurs and the other better teams have a healthy year, it stands to reason the Lakers will have a harder time reaching the finals this year and winning it. Common sense right?!

[BUMP]

The point was to show how absurd it is to blame injuries and taint some other teams success. I hated Malone and was not happy he became a Laker. Regardless, his injury was a key to that series. But you tip your hat to the Pistons, say well done, and move on. To sit and say their title is meaningless because the Lakers suffed and injury is petty and the people that post as such are just jealous haters.

I have no idea who you are but you are now my favorite poster:toast

I'm so sick of Spur fans making excuses on their injuries. Manu was hurt, Duncan was on fluids, Lakers were lucky there were injuries

Injuries are part of every sport you whiny spur bitches!!

[kingmalaki]

As for all the sour grapes about injuries and how the Lakers lucked into the title... come on. If that's how its tabulated then fine. Take away last years and well take the 1989 championship where scott and magic pulled up lame in the finals and 2004 when Karl did.

16 titles baby!!!!!!!!!!!


Friggen sour grapes morons...

So does that mean you are giving back the 88 title when Isiah got hurt, and the 2000 title when Duncan didn't play (defending champs), and the one this year because every team ya beat in the playoffs besides Denver had someone hurt and KG didn't play (defending champs)? :lol I can't think of another postseason where the title team faced 3 teams that weren't at full strength.

[21_Blessings]

Too bad we didn't get to see what would have happened if you played the team you went 2-2 against in the playoffs...

Everyone already knows what would have happened. The same thing that happens every time the Lakers face Portland in the playoffs.

[all_heart]

I have no idea who you are but you are now my favorite poster:toast

I'm so sick of Spur fans making excuses on their injuries. Manu was hurt, Duncan was on fluids, Lakers were lucky there were injuries

Injuries are part of every sport you whiny spur bitches!!

Read my last post bitch, then fuck off. All you Mavs fans do is blame the refs for your 06 final series. I'm not making excuses, all I'm saying is that the Spurs if in full form have a good chance this year.. The Lakers are lucky that THEY didn't have injuries, because if you take away Kobe or Pau.. guess what?! They aren't winning shit!:nope

[cobbler]

Read my last post bitch, then fuck off. All you Mavs fans do is blame the refs for your 06 final series. I'm not making excuses, all I'm saying is that the Spurs if in full form have a good chance this year.. The Lakers are lucky that THEY didn't have injuries, because if you take away Kobe or Pau.. guess what?! They aren't winning shit!:nope

WOW...What a revelation...

[all_heart]

I have no idea who you are but you are now my favorite poster:toast

I'm so sick of Spur fans making excuses on their injuries. Manu was hurt, Duncan was on fluids, Lakers were lucky there were injuries

Injuries are part of every sport you whiny spur bitches!!

Yea, no shit.. and I guess for Mavs fans choking is part of the game too.

The 06 Mavs were so happy to beat the Spurs and be in the finals, they didn't know what to do after that.. so they shit themselves.

[all_heart]

WOW...What a revelation...

Exactly some people just read what they want to see, you gotta spell it out for them.. I know I'm stating the obvious for some of you 12 yr olds.

[My Fault]

I have no idea who you are but you are now my favorite poster:toast

I'm so sick of Spur fans making excuses on their injuries. Manu was hurt, Duncan was on fluids, Lakers were lucky there were injuries

Injuries are part of every sport you whiny spur bitches!!
Your right its only ok to blame the refs :tu

[MavDynasty]

Your right its only ok to blame the refs :tu

:lmao spurs fans always bitch about the 06 semis officiating

[all_heart]

:lmao spurs fans always bitch about the 06 semis officiating

You are either stupid or playing stupid, he's referring to the Mavs bitching about the refs in the 06 finals.. and don't act like that didn't happen.

[spursfan1000]

I don't think they are better. There may be some chemistry problems and Artest wont know the system.

[DrHouse]

Considering Spur fan spewed for years that Kobe could never win without Shaq I'm not sure i give two shits if they actually believe that the Lakers will be a worse team next season

[all_heart]

Considering Spur fan spewed for years that Kobe could never win without Shaq I'm not sure i give two shits if they actually believe that the Lakers will be a worse team next season

Kobe needed Pau to get back into title contention. And you are right you shouldn't give a shit what we Spurs fans say, we're Spurs fans..why should you care? Why would you expect anything else here at ST? We feel the same, trust me. :flag:

[Muser]

Considering Spur fan spewed for years that Kobe could never win without Shaq I'm not sure i give two shits if they actually believe that the Lakers will be a worse team next season


Might wanna extend that beyond spur fans Doc'.

[Venti Quattro]

I don't think they are better. There may be some chemistry problems and Artest wont know the system.

phil jackson handled kobe, shaq and rodman

artest will be a cake walk

[hater]

I don't think Lakers will be worse. Just that their opponents are way better now and healthy finally.

[Venti Quattro]

Wasn't there a team the Lakers went 2-2 against last year?

we also went 0-2 with a non-contender but still we're the champions and we're better this year

[My Fault]

You are either stupid or playing stupid, he's referring to the Mavs bitching about the refs in the 06 finals.. and don't act like that didn't happen.
His SN is Mavdynasty need I say more?

[My Fault]

Considering Spur fan spewed for years that Kobe could never win without Shaq I'm not sure i give two shits if they actually believe that the Lakers will be a worse team next season
Then why bother posting here? Obviously you do....

[all_heart]

phil jackson handled kobe, shaq and rodman

artest will be a cake walk

Oh yea, whatever happened to Shaq?! With Artest, even if he "complies" the Lakers haven't really improved since last year, which is something you can't say about a lot of other teams. Sometimes standing pat doesn't work out. You can say all you want about the Spurs, the fact is they got some better players this year and the core player and coaching staff know how to put it all together and win. You don't think Duncan wants at least 1 more ring before he retires?

[IronMexican]

I don't think Lakers will be worse. Just that their opponents are way better now and healthy finally.

Wont argue that teams got better. I still think the Lakers are a vut above the West and I favor them slightly over the C's and Cavs. Orlando fucked up by losing two starters.

[2Cleva]

Orlando did well. 2 starters? Rafer was only because of injury. And Lee is OK but nothing special, imo. Carter is a better fit with Nelson. And there bench is strong now with Gortat, Bass, and Barnes.

LA will be better mentally from winning a ring. That aspect is huge - is for any team thats been a champion before. All question marks and self doubt are removed. There is also room for growth with 2 of their top 8 (Bynum/Brown).

[all_heart]

Orlando did well. 2 starters? Rafer was only because of injury. And Lee is OK but nothing special, imo. Carter is a better fit with Nelson. And there bench is strong now with Gortat, Bass, and Barnes.

LA will be better mentally from winning a ring. That aspect is huge - is for any team thats been a champion before. All question marks and self doubt are removed. There is also room for growth with 2 of their top 8 (Bynum/Brown).

I'd agree w/that. Better hope Bynum and others hold the ship steady.. or comments could be made by Kobe or Phil and there goes some chemistry, or out a player or two go then the pressure is getting the FNGs to learn the system before playoffs.

I liked Lee, he showed some good game and toughness for a young guy. They may miss him more than they will Hedo.

[23LeBronJames23]

Kobe couldnt do it without Gasol! :lmao

[Man In Black]

phil jackson handled kobe, shaq and rodman

artest will be a cake walk

If handled means... got your asses handed to you by Detroit when you were heavily favored, write a tell-all book complaining about your superstar SG, retire, come back, lead your team to a defeat by the defenseless Suns after leading 3-1, have a Spanish gift fall into your lap provided by a Laker Legend, then get your asses handed to you by Boston when you were heavily favored, and then withstand all the teams that lost major pieces of their teams during the playoffs to win last season's NBA title, then... I agree with you.

[NBAfan83]

Last year showed two things.

Cleveland, who wasn't mired with injuries and had the best record in the NBA east, were shown for their true colors and their lack of depth and skill outside of Lebron. They cruised all the way, and looked unstoppable before facing the Magic, who had an injured jameer to boot.

Lakers, who wasn't mired with injuries either (bynum didn't play bad cuz he was injured, it's cuz he really does lack the proper mentality to win) also had the best record of the west at the time. But they had trouble with an undermanned rocket team and initially had trouble with denver.

TBH of the two, I think cleveland did more to plug up their deficiencies than the Lakers did. In the end it's a game of mismatches, and with the other teams fully reloaded, we have no idea, whether last years lakers or this years lakers will be do better or worse.

[La Peace]

If handled means... got your asses handed to you by Detroit when you were heavily favored, write a tell-all book complaining about your superstar SG, retire, come back, lead your team to a defeat by the defenseless Suns after leading 3-1, have a Spanish gift fall into your lap provided by a Laker Legend, then get your asses handed to you by Boston when you were heavily favored, and then withstand all the teams that lost major pieces of their teams during the playoffs to win last season's NBA title, then... I agree with you.

Well then we agree.

Situation Handled. :king

[2Cleva]

Lakers, who wasn't mired with injuries either (bynum didn't play bad cuz he was injured, it's cuz he really does lack the proper mentality to win) also had the best record of the west at the time. But they had trouble with an undermanned rocket team and initially had trouble with denver.

How do you blame that on Bynum's mentality when A - it was his first real playoff experience and B - he had the mentality of dominating (including giving it to Duncan) before he got hurt.

The trouble with Houston was overstated. Hollinger had a rare good article where he showed that the last 7 NBA champs (including the Lakers last year) struggled in Round 2.


That may well prove to be true, but before we get too far along in writing them off, perhaps we should consult some history books. The NBA landscape is littered with champions who looked nothing like the part midway through the second round.

Let me remind you of the history of our past six champions:

• A year ago, Boston reached this point in the playoffs with a sterling 6-5 mark against two teams that had allowed more points than they'd scored in the regular season. Following a second straight double-digit loss to Cleveland, commentators openly questioned the ability of Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett to deliver in the clutch.

• A year earlier, the Spurs lost Game 4 at home to Phoenix to even the series 2-2, and didn't have home-court advantage. It took the controversial suspensions of Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw a day later to propel them toward the title.

• In 2006, Miami had lost twice to Chicago in the opening round and dropped the opener of Round 2 to New Jersey before rallying toward the title. Like this season's Lakers squad, the Heat were seen as horrific underachievers at the time.

• The 2005 Spurs reached this point tied 2-2 with the Sonics in a rough, physical series in which the Sonics got under the Spurs' skin. It's easy to forget now, but a sizable contingent of media already had their golf clubs and Coppertone packed for a Phoenix-Miami Finals.

• In 2004, the Pistons were in even worse shape. Not only were they tied 2-2 with the Nets after a second straight one-sided loss in the Swamp, they went on to lose Game 5 at home because they couldn't contain Brian freaking Scalabrine. Still, they went on to win it.

• In 2003, San Antonio also found itself knotted at 2-2 against three-time defending champion L.A. -- in fact at this point in the postseason the Spurs' record was just 6-4, and lot of critics were pointing to their alleged softness as a reason they wouldn't prevail.

Six straight champions had adversity staring them in the face at this point in the playoffs; not since the Lakers' three-peat have we seen a champion get through a second-round series without having to answer a lot of questions along the way.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090511

Pointing to a sub-par 2nd round is a stone a Spurs fan should dare not touch, let alone throw.

[My Fault]

The game is about mismatches and exposing them. That's pretty much how a lower seeded team can beat a higher one. Mismatches... Lakers have a solid team and regardless of Artest being crazy he is only need to handle the job of being a defensive stopper. Lakers have 7fter with a solid post game in Gasol, a mobile big in Odom, and a solid defensive big in Bynum. Then there's Kobe. Nothing to say about the point cause Brown is not the answer regardless of the little spots here and there that he showed to be nice. Either way a solid team with a ship now under its belt. Are they unstoppable? No. Can the Spurs beat them? Sure given health is not a issue I like this match up. :toast

[2Cleva]

Shannon Brown's strengths are his D, athleticism, his 3 pt shooting, and knowing his role. Doing that alone and he's perfect for the team. With Kobe, LO, Walton, and Artest (not to mention the tri and the passing 7 footers they have) - LA doesn't need him to be a creator with the ball.

Derek Fisher/Steve Kerr but with defensive ability and athleticism is what LA is hoping for.

[all_heart]

Shannon Brown's strengths are his D, athleticism, his 3 pt shooting, and knowing his role. Doing that alone and he's perfect for the team. With Kobe, LO, Walton, and Artest (not to mention the tri and the passing 7 footers they have) - LA doesn't need him to be a creator with the ball.

Derek Fisher/Steve Kerr but with defensive ability and athleticism is what LA is hoping for.

Walton?! Don't go there! :lmao:lmao:lol:lol

Face it, the Lakers don't have much of a bench, if you consider the fact that the Spurs (and other teams) made improvements this off-season, the Lakers will need a better bench to make it back to the finals.. It's a loooong season and your starters can only take you so far.

[hater]

LOL Walton

[JustBlaze]

The game is about mismatches and exposing them. That's pretty much how a lower seeded team can beat a higher one. Mismatches... Lakers have a solid team and regardless of Artest being crazy he is only need to handle the job of being a defensive stopper. Lakers have 7fter with a solid post game in Gasol, a mobile big in Odom, and a solid defensive big in Bynum. Then there's Kobe. Nothing to say about the point cause Brown is not the answer regardless of the little spots here and there that he showed to be nice. Either way a solid team with a ship now under its belt. Are they unstoppable? No. Can the Spurs beat them? Sure given health is not a issue I like this match up. :toast
Best thing I've read all week.:toast

[2Cleva]

Walton?! Don't go there! :lmao:lmao:lol:lol

Face it, the Lakers don't have much of a bench, if you consider the fact that the Spurs (and other teams) made improvements this off-season, the Lakers will need a better bench to make it back to the finals.. It's a loooong season and your starters can only take you so far.

The one and only thing Walton can do well is pass.

LA doesn't have much of a bench? Considering Artest replaces Ariza in the starting lineup they have the same bench they had last season and that was plenty good enough.

How does it stack up?

- Farmar/Brown is at least on the level of backup PGs of any other contender.
- No team has a player as good as Odom coming off bench - including SA considering Ginobili's health in recent years.
- A couple of nice big men for depth in Powell/Mbenga.
- Walton is a nice glue guy off the bench. When needed on for heavy minutes is when he sucks.
- Only question mark is with Sasha - will he suck next season like last season or will he find his mojo like he did in 07-08.

What's more - all have championship experience. I'd take that bench over a team like SA with Ginobili a health question mark, and a bunch of guys who never have been there before or are near the end of the road (Ratliff). SA's biggest hope is Blair and only the games will prove if he's a steal or earned that red flag for a reason.

[bostonguy]

Im trying to figure out how the Cavs stand a great chance at beating LA 4 times in a 7 game series. You have to be versatile on both ends and you have to be able to limit the Lakers O. Cavs aren't versatile enough and they sure as hell cant limit the Lakers O. It wont matter how successful the Cavs are on O. You arent going to beat the best offensive team in that type of game.

[all_heart]

The one and only thing Walton can do well is pass.

LA doesn't have much of a bench? Considering Artest replaces Ariza in the starting lineup they have the same bench they had last season and that was plenty good enough.

How does it stack up?

- Farmar/Brown is at least on the level of backup PGs of any other contender.
- No team has a player as good as Odom coming off bench - including SA considering Ginobili's health in recent years.
- A couple of nice big men for depth in Powell/Mbenga.
- Walton is a nice glue guy off the bench. When needed on for heavy minutes is when he sucks.
- Only question mark is with Sasha - will he suck next season like last season or will he find his mojo like he did in 07-08.

What's more - all have championship experience. I'd take that bench over a team like SA with Ginobili a health question mark, and a bunch of guys who never have been there before or are near the end of the road (Ratliff). SA's biggest hope is Blair and only the games will prove if he's a steal or earned that red flag for a reason.

Key phrase-last season, they were good enough last season but next season.. I really doubt it.
W/the exception of Odom,.. they are ALL scrubs. Everybody's future health is a question mark.. to include your beloved Lakers.

[2Cleva]

Key phrase-last season, they were good enough last season but next season.. I really doubt it.
W/the exception of Odom,.. they are ALL scrubs. Everybody's future health is a question mark.. to include your beloved Lakers.

Same can be said about SA except for Ginobili - even more so because of Ginobili's injury makes him a major question mark.

When you stack bench to bench, the ace LA has is their bench has championship confidence.

Hill - unproven potential (ie Shannon Brown).
Ratliff/Finley - both play like they should be retired.
Blair - major health red flag.
Matt Bonner - Brian Cook's brother from another mother.
Mahinmi and Haslip haven't made it in the NBA for a reason.

If anything, at least LA is counting on younger players to get through the season.

[nkdlunch]

Same can be said about SA except for Ginobili - even more so because of Ginobili's injury makes him a major question mark.

When you stack bench to bench, the ace LA has is their bench has championship confidence.

Hill - unproven potential (ie Shannon Brown).
Ratliff/Finley - both play like they should be retired.
Blair - major health red flag.
Matt Bonner - Brian Cook's brother from another mother.
Mahinmi and Haslip haven't made it in the NBA for a reason.

If anything, at least LA is counting on younger players to get through the season.

you have a point, but you can't deny Spurs bench potential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laker's bench potential.

to put it simply, if Spurs young bench players(Hill, Hairston, Blair, Mahinmi) meet the high expectations or get close(which is likely from what we've been seing..), they can be the difference maker between Lakers/Spurs

[2Cleva]

Im trying to figure out how the Cavs stand a great chance at beating LA 4 times in a 7 game series. You have to be versatile on both ends and you have to be able to limit the Lakers O. Cavs aren't versatile enough and they sure as hell cant limit the Lakers O. It wont matter how successful the Cavs are on O. You arent going to beat the best offensive team in that type of game.

Agreed.

Gotta respect LeBron and Shaq but as a whole they don't have the team or gameplan to beat LA.

Orlando can nuetralize LA somewhat because of Howard being able to anchor their defense.

Boston plays great defense and control the tempo well. Have to wonder how their zone defense will work when there are offensive threats at each position now for LA instead of relying on Walton or Odom starting.

San Antonio has the same problems as Cleveland. Even though the Spurs have more firepower, they don't want to trade baskets with the Lakers. But they are overmatched inside vs LA and can't slow down Kobe. Fatal combination.

[2Cleva]

you have a point, but you can't deny Spurs bench potential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laker's bench potential.

to put it simply, if Spurs young bench players(Hill, Hairston, Blair, Mahinmi) meet the high expectations or get close(which is likely from what we've been seing..), they can be the difference maker between Lakers/Spurs

I'll give you Hill and Blair. The other two - c'mon now.

And banking on that many young guys to meet expectations is SA's only hope.

And when comparing their young guys to LA - LA is only counting/hoping for 2 guys to maximize potential - and they already are locks in the rotation with championship experience.

[2Cleva]

Again, the games have to be played. Nothing is won on paper.

But LA is better shape in comparison with themselevs and the league to win anothe ring to start the season this fall than they were last fall.

Vegas knows of what they speak.

[nkdlunch]

I'll give you Hill and Blair. The other two - c'mon now.

And banking on that many young guys to meet expectations is SA's only hope.

And when comparing their young guys to LA - LA is only counting/hoping for 2 guys to maximize potential - and they already are locks in the rotation with championship experience.

wait, which of your bench guys is a lock in the rotation???

this is ridiculous

[2Cleva]

wait, which of your bench guys is a lock in the rotation???

this is ridiculous

I didn't mean bench young guys - just young guys in general. Those two being Bynum and Shannon Brown.

[My Fault]

San Antonio has the same problems as Cleveland. Even though the Spurs have more firepower, they don't want to trade baskets with the Lakers. But they are overmatched inside vs LA and can't slow down Kobe. Fatal combination.
Dice and TD can hold their own vs LA's frontline. I would hardly call that overmatched. Kobe will cause problems no doubt but on the other hand Parker will cause problems too as LA has no answer for him. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying Parker > Kobe but he is not a problem that can be ignored. Parker has proved he can turn it up come PO time.

[nkdlunch]

I didn't mean bench young guys - just young guys in general. Those two being Bynum and Shannon Brown.

Bynum makes 1. And he is a health question mark himself. I doubt Shannon Brown is a lock in Lakers rotation for next year. Especially playoffs. he might, but right now, he aint

[2Cleva]

Dice and TD can hold their own vs LA's frontline. I would hardly call that overmatched. Kobe will cause problems no doubt but on the other hand Parker will cause problems too as LA has no answer for him. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying Parker > Kobe but he is not a problem that can be ignored. Parker has proved he can turn it up come PO time.

Last time LA's 3 big men and Duncan was on the same floor, Duncan was outscored by Pau (16-15), outplayed by Bynum (15/11/4 to 15/8) and outboarded by LO (10-8).

McDyess has a lot of ground to make up.

That's why LA likely repeats. Name a team that can match their frontline and slow down Kobe? Boston is the only hope, Orlando a puncher's chance.

SA only gets there if Duncan finds the fountain of youth before the playoff series. He's a great, great player but McDyess alone ain't enough help.

[2Cleva]

Bynum makes 1. And he is a health question mark himself. I doubt Shannon Brown is a lock in Lakers rotation for next year. Especially playoffs. he might, but right now, he aint

Bynum's injuries were both contact related. Fluke injuries - not chronic things you see from guys like Yao or Oden.

If his bad luck continues - sure he's a question mark. But it wasn't stress related injuries.

[all_heart]

Again, the games have to be played. Nothing is won on paper.

But LA is better shape in comparison with themselevs and the league to win anothe ring to start the season this fall than they were last fall.

Vegas knows of what they speak.


You are beginning to sound like a dam info commercial.. Lakers haven't improved this off season. The Lakers used their speed and length to win a title this year.. This team just got slower and lost length. Ariza > Artest. Artest won't make other players tougher, it doesn't work like that, especially influence from that guy. The Lakers bench are mostly scrubs just along for the ride, I wouldn't count on them being consistent next year. Lakers have a serious PG situation, Fisher is major liability on D, and Farmar can't be trusted in a grind it out half court set. Blair's major health issues?! Dude has no ACLs to injure, he didn't have any last year when he tore it up in the NCAA. His knees are not a concern whatsoever..

[all_heart]

Potential??? Three of those player have never even played an NBA game. The other had a very disappointing rookie season. The Lakers have guys that are proven players on their bench. They just had a bad season collectively. Shannon will be a huge upgrade over Farmar. I'd like to see Josh get more minutes at the PF by allowing Odom to take Waltons minutes away. Overall, our bench was a top 3 bench in the league in 07/08, and I expect them to return to that form. The good thing is we have proven that we don't even need a bench to win a title. How many teams can say that?

What a joke. One guy is saying the LA bench is good with a bunch of proven players, then lakaluva says you don't need a bench to win a title. With the exception of Pau, the Lakers front line is way over rated, that's why Boston literally destroyed you guys 2 years ago. What's changed? Bynum is not the answer. The Lakers better watch out!

[My Fault]

Last time LA's 3 big men and Duncan was on the same floor, Duncan was outscored by Pau (16-15), outplayed by Bynum (15/11/4 to 15/8) and outboarded by LO (10-8).

McDyess has a lot of ground to make up.

That's why LA likely repeats. Name a team that can match their frontline and slow down Kobe? Boston is the only hope, Orlando a puncher's chance.

SA only gets there if Duncan finds the fountain of youth before the playoff series. He's a great, great player but McDyess alone ain't enough help.
A rested Duncan who doesn't have to carry the team all year will not have that kinda performance. Do you really think Pau and Bynum can outplay Duncan in a 7 game series? Dice may not be an all star but is much more help than Bonner. I can only see Pau having a performance close to Duncan's but wouldn't say that he will outplay him in a 7 game series. Bynum and Odom still have to prove themselves before you can say they are legit. Odom will not be in a contract year and Bynum to have more than just a few good games.

[IronMexican]

Champions don't have to prove themselves to no one. What planet are you from?

That's why I gave Boston all the respect from a basketball point during the regular season last year. The Lakers are the champs until proven otherwise.

[daslicer]

Outside of Odom LA's bench is filled with scrubs.

Manu>Odom in impact of the game when he's healthy.

Hill>Brown,Farmar I will say this becaue whenever he plays Hill has shown can produce on both ends of the court which is something those 2 guys can't. If their offense isn't working then their defense is crap.

Bonner = Luke Walton: These players play different type of positions but are pretty much same type of player in impact which is they can't create shots but they have to be wide open to score buckets.

Finley>Sasha: even at old age Mike is still better then this scrub. Again they are pretty much the same type of players which is stand still shooters who need to be open to shoot except Mike can still drop 20 points every now and then something Sasha can't do.

Mahinimi,Blair,Haislip>Powell,Mbenga : I willing to bet one of the spurs young 3 bigmen will turn out to better then the trash known as Powell-Mbenga. Those guys are straight up garbage I know I'm being biased but I will be shocked if not one of the spurs young bigman prospects turn out to be better then that trash.

[La Peace]

That's why I gave Boston all the respect from a basketball point during the regular season last year. The Lakers are the champs until proven otherwise.

Exactly,

just STFU and know that the world champions are better than you until you prove otherwise. Seriously.

[BadOdor]

Outside of Odom LA's bench is filled with scrubs.

Manu>Odom in impact of the game when he's healthy.

Hill>Brown,Farmar I will say this becaue whenever he plays Hill has shown can produce on both ends of the court which is something those 2 guys can't. If their offense isn't working then their defense is crap.

Bonner = Luke Walton: These players play different type of positions but are pretty much same type of player in impact which is they can't create shots but they have to be wide open to score buckets.

Finley>Sasha: even at old age Mike is still better then this scrub. Again they are pretty much the same type of players which is stand still shooters who need to be open to shoot except Mike can still drop 20 points every now and then something Sasha can't do.

Mahinimi,Blair,Haislip>Powell,Mbenga : I willing to bet one of the spurs young 3 bigmen will turn out to better then the trash known as Powell-Mbenga. Those guys are straight up garbage I know I'm being biased but I will be shocked if not one of the spurs young bigman prospects turn out to be better then that trash.

lol.

[kwamay_brown54]

I agree with Bonner = Luke Walton, Finley is definitely better than Sasha no doubt, Hill = Brown/Farmar so thats a wash, and Mahinimi, Blair, Haislip are not better than Powell/Benga you cant say that since they haven't even played 1 game in a Spurs uniform yet. So overall I'd say spurs bench and laker bench is a flatout wash. Now starting 5 is a better debate.

[My Fault]

Champions don't have to prove themselves to no one. What planet are you from?
:lmao so Waton is legit now cause he happen to be on a championship team? Your taking my point wrong. Lakers are the team to beat and are the champs I'm in no way saying otherwise. Please go back and read what I posted. Try to comprehend it this time :tu

[kwamay_brown54]

How is Matt Bonner any more overrated than Luke Walton? Both are clearly defined role players with notable flaws, but accepted flaws if put into the right system.

[BadOdor]

How is Matt Bonner any more overrated than Luke Walton? Both are clearly defined role players with notable flaws, but accepted flaws if put into the right system.

didn't matt bonner shoot something like 20% in the playoffs? that makes him a chocker.

Walton may suck, but at least he sucks equally in the playoffs as he does in the regular season.

[kwamay_brown54]

didn't matt bonner shoot something like 20% in the playoffs? that makes him a chocker.

Walton may suck, but at least he sucks equally in the playoffs as he does in the regular season.

As much as Walton Jr. gets ragged on by opposing teams and their fans, he has one of the highest +/- ratings on the Lakers.

[My Fault]

What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't even fucking read that second grade gibberish you posted. My post was directed to someone else. Try and keep up.
Oh my bad I should've known it was directed to someone else even tho you quoted my post. Having problems using the internet? :rolleyes

[Jacko]

I will echo what others have said.

Champions don't have to prove themselves to anyone. They are the best until proven otherwise.

[2Cleva]

You are beginning to sound like a dam info commercial.. Lakers haven't improved this off season. The Lakers used their speed and length to win a title this year.. This team just got slower and lost length. Ariza > Artest. Artest won't make other players tougher, it doesn't work like that, especially influence from that guy. The Lakers bench are mostly scrubs just along for the ride, I wouldn't count on them being consistent next year. Lakers have a serious PG situation, Fisher is major liability on D, and Farmar can't be trusted in a grind it out half court set. Blair's major health issues?! Dude has no ACLs to injure, he didn't have any last year when he tore it up in the NCAA. His knees are not a concern whatsoever..

First all, if Blair was not a concern, he would have been a first round pick.

Next, LA's speed and length is still there. SB will now be part of the rotation so it adds it to the PG position And you already know about the frontcourt trio. Now with Artest, they have strength added as well.

[daslicer]

I agree with Bonner = Luke Walton, Finley is definitely better than Sasha no doubt, Hill = Brown/Farmar so thats a wash, and Mahinimi, Blair, Haislip are not better than Powell/Benga you cant say that since they haven't even played 1 game in a Spurs uniform yet. So overall I'd say spurs bench and laker bench is a flatout wash. Now starting 5 is a better debate.

Your right Mahinimi,Blair,Haislip hasn't played a game yet but I will say this that if one of those 3 doesn't turn out to be better then Powell/Mbenga then they are busts. Powell/Benga are trash its like how spur fans tried to justify Udoka being a solid player in here which isn't the case .

[kwamay_brown54]

Your right Mahinimi,Blair,Haislip hasn't played a game yet but I will say this that if one of those 3 doesn't turn out to be better then Powell/Mbenga then they are busts. Powell/Benga are trash its like how spur fans tried to justify Udoka being a solid player in here which isn't the case .

Powell and Benga are gettin paid the veteran's minimum, so you can't expect too much from them. The lakers currently own 3 mega toxic contracts, Walton-5 mil, Sasha at 5 mil, and Bynum at 12 mil. Morrison isn't toxic because he is 100% guaranteed gone by the trade deadline. 3 Toxic contracts isn't really too bad, especially if 2 of em are only at 5 mil.

[Man In Black]

Fail.

Floyd ran it his first 2 years in Chicago, Artest being there for that 2nd year.
Fail or did I? This is what bugs me. While I would agree that Floyd was there and coached the team, I recall that management(read Jerry Krause) didn't like the development of his young players under Floyd. They they REGRESSED under his coaching and tutelage.

The numbers show that the the team didn't win more than 20 games and when he was finally let go in December, the team was 4-21. I will agree to a point that Ron did get it. But it wasn't really from Floyd. And how well did it sink and how much was retained since that time period. It's a trick question though. Tim Floyd wasn't a master at the Triple-Post. And since his Bulls weren't doing anything well, Krause made him adjust the offense to fit the youth of the then Bulls.

Again, I will concede the experience for Ron to a point. It helps to have one of the co-creators of the Triple-Post in Tex Winter but when Management tells you to change what you're doing and you do not...you get let go.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/1998/weekly/980803/chicago.html

The day after the press conference, Floyd began his Bulls career in Jackson's old office. Just outside, in the hallway, hung a picture of one of Chicago's championship celebrations, with Jackson being doused by champagne. On Floyd's desk was a spiral-bound book entitled The Triple-Post Offense by Bulls assistant Tex Winter, bearing the author's autograph. It was a gift from Winter, whom Floyd had met with that day and asked to remain on staff; he made the same offer to two other assistants, Cartwright and Frank Hamblen. Floyd also told Winter he'd like to retain his style of attack, Chicago's trademark in the Jackson era. At one point a visitor who needed to make a call asked if he had to dial 9 on Floyd's new phone to get an outside line. "I have no idea," Floyd said.

Again,Management asked him to change the offense.

Chicago Bulls
On July 23, 1998, Floyd was hired head coach of the Chicago Bulls of the NBA. That off-season, the core of the Bulls championship teams retired or left, leaving the equivalent of an expansion team. During the lockout season of 1998-1999, the team posted a record of 13–37. The next season, the Bulls had a 17-65 record. The team continued to regress, posting a 15–67 record in the 2000-2001 season. His fourth year as coach was marred by fights with players and management. Floyd resigned on December 24, 2001 after a 4–21 start.
In his four seasons with the Bulls, Floyd posted a record of 49–190. The team did not make the NBA Playoffs in any of those years. Known as a favorite of Jerry Krause by the Chicago media, an entertaining press conference had Floyd proclaim [I'm not] "Jerry's boy."[1]

[TheManFromAcme]

Outside of Odom LA's bench is filled with scrubs.

Manu>Odom in impact of the game when he's healthy.

Hill>Brown,Farmar I will say this becaue whenever he plays Hill has shown can produce on both ends of the court which is something those 2 guys can't. If their offense isn't working then their defense is crap.

Bonner = Luke Walton: These players play different type of positions but are pretty much same type of player in impact which is they can't create shots but they have to be wide open to score buckets.

Finley>Sasha: even at old age Mike is still better then this scrub. Again they are pretty much the same type of players which is stand still shooters who need to be open to shoot except Mike can still drop 20 points every now and then something Sasha can't do.

Mahinimi,Blair,Haislip>Powell,Mbenga : I willing to bet one of the spurs young 3 bigmen will turn out to better then the trash known as Powell-Mbenga. Those guys are straight up garbage I know I'm being biased but I will be shocked if not one of the spurs young bigman prospects turn out to be better then that trash.

Soooo, when's the punch line? Really. :rolleyes
If you change some of your >< symbols than we can talk.

[Venti Quattro]

are spurs fans doing damage control or what?

[Venti Quattro]

Oh yea, whatever happened to Shaq?! With Artest, even if he "complies" the Lakers haven't really improved since last year, which is something you can't say about a lot of other teams. Sometimes standing pat doesn't work out. You can say all you want about the Spurs, the fact is they got some better players this year and the core player and coaching staff know how to put it all together and win. You don't think Duncan wants at least 1 more ring before he retires?

3 championships with Shaq and Kobe. Artest is an upgrade defensively and he can also shoot the rock. The trade-off is that we have given Ariza but Artest is definitely an upgrade in terms of defense and toughness.

Also, I didn't say anything about the Spurs.


Kobe couldnt do it without Gasol! :lmao

Lebron just couldn't do it with anyone. Sorry, had to say it. :downspin:


If handled means... got your asses handed to you by Detroit when you were heavily favored, write a tell-all book complaining about your superstar SG, retire, come back, lead your team to a defeat by the defenseless Suns after leading 3-1, have a Spanish gift fall into your lap provided by a Laker Legend, then get your asses handed to you by Boston when you were heavily favored, and then withstand all the teams that lost major pieces of their teams during the playoffs to win last season's NBA title, then... I agree with you.

At least we didn't tank games just to get a high pick.

[TheMACHINE]

so much talk for a subject thats pretty straight forward.

Lakers got better since the Finals.....Spurs got better since thier 1-4 ownage by the Mavs. Therefore, Lakers will probably repeat and the Spurs will probably reach the second round.

/thread

[Venti Quattro]

so much talk for a subject thats pretty straight forward.

Lakers got better since the Finals.....Spurs got better since thier 1-4 ownage by the Mavs. Therefore, Lakers will probably repeat and the Spurs will probably reach the second round.

/thread

lol.

[Culburn369]

Media always pimps for the Spurs. It's just the way it is. The Spurs were a Godsend for Media when Boston was on their ass. That they've failed at a 100% clip to repeat is of no consequence for San Antonio. Media covers their ass there. And that's nice for them, but, I'm holdin' a grudge & umbrage on their inability to go back-to-back.

& I ain't f'in budgin' nary an inch on the issue.

Let us proceed...

[hater]

Bynum's injuries were both contact related. Fluke injuries - not chronic things you see from guys like Yao or Oden.

If his bad luck continues - sure he's a question mark. But it wasn't stress related injuries.

:lmao

this is the funniest shit I read in a while.

90% of players injuries are contact related. just that the weak ones, like Bynum, suffer major injuries.

[hater]

Media always pimps for the Spurs. It's just the way it is. The Spurs were a Godsend for Media when Boston was on their ass. That they've failed at a 100% clip to repeat is of no consequence for San Antonio. Media covers their ass there. And that's nice for them, but, I'm holdin' a grudge & umbrage on their inability to go back-to-back.

& I ain't f'in budgin' nary an inch on the issue.

Let us proceed...

:lol

just say no to drugs

[Culburn369]

:lmao

this is the funniest shit I read in a while.

Mavs polishin' their knob in your lunchbucket was a knee slapper as well, hater.

[kingmalaki]

I agree with the post that I want to see how good the other teams will be assuming they are healthy. I think it's fair to say we didn't really see a team with as much talent as LA get to challenge them last season due to injuries. It looks like one team in the West has enough on paper (SA), and 3 in the East (Orlando, Boston, Cleveland). So the real question is who will stay healthy and how will Artest fit it. Laker fans keep saying all he needs to do is be a role player but no one is addressing the fact that Ron thinks he is a star and not a role player. Ariza realized what he was....so that storyline will be interesting to watch.

[hater]

Mavs polishin' their knob in your lunchbucket was a knee slapper as well, hater.

yup that's all you got. Keep rehashing it. It gets funnier the 1000th time.... NOT :downspin:

[Culburn369]

No, no, hater, you guys have failed miserably to make your mark with the repeat. Kobe repeated. Hell, Kobe hit that trio. But, not you miserable failures. Jesus, Mother Mary & Joseph, Media/ESPN even had the goofy {every other year} thing workin' for ya's. Yeah, can ya imagine puttin' that malarkey up there as an accomplishment? What in the Hell is wrong with you people!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cheguevara]

No, no, hater, you guys have failed miserably to make your mark with the repeat. Kobe repeated. Hell, Kobe hit that trio. But, not you miserable failures. Jesus, Mother Mary & Joseph, Media/ESPN even had the goofy {every other year} thing workin' for ya's. Yeah, can ya imagine puttin' that malarkey up there as an accomplishment? What in the Hell is wrong with you people!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hey why don't you talk about how the mavs beat the spurs last year? :lol

[hater]

No, no, hater, you guys have failed miserably to make your mark with the repeat. Kobe repeated. Hell, Kobe hit that trio. But, not you miserable failures. Jesus, Mother Mary & Joseph, Media/ESPN even had the goofy {every other year} thing workin' for ya's. Yeah, can ya imagine puttin' that malarkey up there as an accomplishment? What in the Hell is wrong with you people!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh the repeat story... damn your act is tired dude. do you copy and paste your responses?

[Culburn369]

oh the repeat story... damn your act is tired dude. do you copy and paste your responses?

Don't be jell, duder. Just cuz you don't have a successful repeat story doesn't give you license to put my successful repeat story down.

[hater]

Don't be jell, duder. Just cuz you don't have a successful repeat story doesn't give you license to put my successful repeat story down.

boring. HOpefully you'll have some new material when season starts.

[Culburn369]

hey why don't you talk about how the mavs beat the spurs last year? :lol

Hey, listen, che, you fellows have taken that ass pounding by the Mavs in pretty good spirits. Yer good losers.

[2Cleva]

:lmao

this is the funniest shit I read in a while.

90% of players injuries are contact related. just that the weak ones, like Bynum, suffer major injuries.

No - instant injuries from impact - ie Bynum's knees is one thing. Bynum was healthy and then an a specific incident occurred that hurt him.

Stress related injuries like Yao's foot or Tim's knees are another. Those develop over time, are result of either structural or postural issues and likely linger the entire players career. Oden is another who falls victim to that.

[Culburn369]

boring. HOpefully you'll have some new material when season starts.

"boring"???????????? How bout when you all dogged us over Kobe's inability to ring like Daddy had? Couldn't talk you out of that no matter what. That was the mantra of entire Laker's Hater Nation.

You goofy bastards, you.

[DrHouse]

So the Lakers bring back the exact same core, a healthy Bynum, and Ron Artest and are somehow worse.

Spurs add RJ, 90-year old McDyess, 90-year old Ratliff, and a shitload of rookies and they are now favorites to win it all?

Gotta love Spur fan logic.