50 players better than Pippen?

[Goran Dragic]

Here's an interesting tool as well.... Hall of Fame predictor: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob_career.html


:lmao


DAF86 said Manu is a sure fire HOFer, when that gives him a 5% chance at getting in.

[dirk4mvp]

Great response. Lots of info there to back up your opinion...

Duncan would've put Wade on locks, I know.

[Goran Dragic]

Great response. Lots of info there to back up your opinion...


Says the cocktard who thinks James Posey would have been guarding Tim Duncan.

[dirk4mvp]

I forgot, Bowen actually would've held Wade. My bad.

[Goran Dragic]

Tony Parker would have also killed Jason Williams.

[jacobdrj]

Even I'm not that much of a homer :D

Grant Hill was a question. Paul Pierce was a statement. PP is better than Pippen.

[Dunc n Dave]

You're fuckin stupid to think Haslem and Posey woulda been the ones guarding Duncan.

I'm not saying that would have been the matchup, but that is what the Heat used to slow Dirk.

Obviously it would have been a Shaq/Zo/Haslem combo guarding Duncan.

But Duncan would get Shaq into foul trouble and/or make him work on both ends. Something he never had to do guarding Diop and Erika.

You can't deny that replacing Dirk with Duncan on that 2006 team GREATLY improves the Mavs chances of winning vs the Heat. The Mavs have always been one decent post scorer/defender from being a REAL contender.

[Goran Dragic]

But Duncan would get Shaq into foul trouble and/or make him work on both ends.


You're right, cause historically Duncan has always owned Shaq in head to head matchups.

[LnGrrrR]

:lmao


DAF86 said Manu is a sure fire HOFer, when that gives him a 5% chance at getting in.

Ouch :lol

Hmmm Allen Iverson AND LeBron James are listed as a 100%... which is actually more than Pippen at .9994, Isiah at .9995 and Dr. J at .9999

Does that mean I should put AI above Pippen too? :D Or does Pippen's defense hold him above AI? I'd lean towards the second choice.

You know, looking at Jason Kidd's career, I should probably put him up there too. Six All NBA team choices (5 on 1st team), nine all-defense selections (4 on 1st team) and rookie of the year. The only thing he doesn't have is a ring.

Edit: Hey, he's got a chance... there's some guys from the 50s who got in with less than 10%.... hehhe

[Goran Dragic]

I'm not saying that would have been the matchup


Then why the fuck did you post it in the first place?

[Goran Dragic]

You can't deny that replacing Dirk with Duncan on that 2006 team GREATLY improves the Mavs chances of winning vs the Heat.


Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. What I do know is it wouldn't have made it so the Mavs win in 5 games.

[Dunc n Dave]

What's your point?

Marion will thrive in Dallas's system. His numbers will be similar to his All Star years in Phoenix (though slightly lower because of the glutton of scorers Dallas has.

You haven't read my whole argument. A Dallas fan said Dirk took a team of "mediocre talent" to the Finals.

I aruged Dirk has always had 2 or more other All Star quality players on his team, and therefore he has never had "mediocre talent" around him.

Dirk has played with 9 different guys who were either recent All Stars or All Stars less than 2 years before joining the Mavs. Marion being the most recent one to join him, who was an All Star in 2007.

[LnGrrrR]

Grant Hill was a question. Paul Pierce was a statement. PP is better than Pippen.

I'd disagree and say Pippen was better, even though I like Pierce more on a personal level. Pierce has stepped up his defense these last few years, but he wasn't always a good defender.

[Goran Dragic]

You haven't read my whole argument. A Dallas fan said Dirk took a team of "mediocre talent" to the Finals.

I aruged Dirk has always had 2 or more other All Star quality players on his team, and therefore he has never had "mediocre talent" around him.


If you consider Marion an all star player then you're retarded. Being an all star in a system that inflates stats doesn't make you an all star. An all star level player is a player that doesn't need a certain system to be all star caliber.

[Goran Dragic]

Marion will thrive in Dallas's system. His numbers will be similar to his All Star years in Phoenix


Exactly. He'll thrive in a certain system. That doesn't make him an all star level player.

[Goran Dragic]

Marion will thrive in Dallas's system. His numbers will be similar to his All Star years in Phoenix (though slightly lower because of the glutton of scorers Dallas has.

You haven't read my whole argument. A Dallas fan said Dirk took a team of "mediocre talent" to the Finals.

I aruged Dirk has always had 2 or more other All Star quality players on his team, and therefore he has never had "mediocre talent" around him.

Dirk has played with 9 different guys who were either recent All Stars or All Stars less than 2 years before joining the Mavs. Marion being the most recent one to join him, who was an All Star in 2007.


Wtf does being an all star before joining the Mavs have to do with how that player played when he was on the Mavs?

[Dunc n Dave]

Then why the fuck did you post it in the first place?

Because Miami had the personnel to slow down a jump shooting 7 footer, the Heat won the series (also thanks to some favorable calls for DWade). Posey and Halsem had the length and foot speed to disrupt Dirk's game without using many double teams.
Slowing down a 7 foot jump shooter is easier than slowing down a dominant bigman. You can double a big, but then you leave the shooters wide open on the rotation, and Dallas had shooters that could have come in handy if Dallas had a post option.

Just saying the X-factor of Posey/Haslem on Dirk would not be a factor if you replace Dirk with Duncan.

[Goran Dragic]

Because Miami had the personnel to slow down a jump shooting 7 footer, the Heat won the series (also thanks to some favorable calls for DWade). Posey and Halsem had the length and foot speed to disrupt Dirk's game without using many double teams.
Slowing down a 7 foot jump shooter is easier than slowing down a dominant bigman. You can double a big, but then you leave the shooters wide open on the rotation, and Dallas had shooters that could have come in handy if Dallas had a post option.

Just saying the X-factor of Posey/Haslem on Dirk would not be a factor if you replace Dirk with Duncan.


The Spurs showed several rounds earlier how easy it is to slow down a 7 foot jump shooter.

[Goran Dragic]

Please list the two or more all star level players Dirk has had each season throughout his career.

[Dunc n Dave]

Wtf does being an all star before joining the Mavs have to do with how that player played when he was on the Mavs?

They are some of the top players still in their prime when they played for the Mavs. It's not like I'm mentioning a 40 year old Kevin Willis who played his last ASG in the 80's...

Most guys that played in ASG's in the last 2-3 years would still be considered TOP players. Stackhoue was still an elit score when he joined the Mavs, same for Antoine Walker. Finley and Nash were Top 25 players when they played for the Mavs too. And on and on...

[Dunc n Dave]

Please list the two or more all star level players Dirk has had each season throughout his career.

:rolleyesREAD THE DAMN THREAD!!!!
Go back 1 PAGE and you'll see I already did that. Now who's the dumbass?

[Goran Dragic]

Stackhoue was still an elit score when he joined the Mavs, same for Antoine Walker. Finley and Nash were Top 25 players when they played for the Mavs too. And on and on...


You're saying 13.9 PPG is an elite scorer, because that's what Stack averaged the season before he got traded to Dallas.

And you know you're losing your argument when you have to list Antoine fuckin Walker as a quality player Dirk had during his career.

[Dunc n Dave]

Exactly. He'll thrive in a certain system. That doesn't make him an all star level player.

The Western Conference coaches tend to disagree with you. SInce they voted him into the ASG in 2007.

But I guess you are a better judge of All Star talent than 15 NBA coaches?

[Goran Dragic]

:rolleyesREAD THE DAMN THREAD!!!!
Go back 1 PAGE and you'll see I already did that. Now who's the dumbass?


Please refer to a post number. I don't see any post where you clearly listed the "2 or more" all star players Dirk has had his entire career.

[Goran Dragic]

The Western Conference coaches tend to disagree with you. SInce they voted him into the ASG in 2007.

But I guess you are a better judge of All Star talent than 15 NBA coaches?


What system was he playing in in 2007?

[Goran Dragic]

Most guys that played in ASG's in the last 2-3 years would still be considered TOP players.


Allen Iverson is still considered a top player?

[Goran Dragic]

FYI, in 2006, no other player on Dallas made the AS team or even came close to making the AS team.

[Dunc n Dave]

You're saying 13.9 PPG is an elite scorer, because that's what Stack averaged the season before he got traded to Dallas.

And you know you're losing your argument when you have to list Antoine fuckin Walker as a quality player Dirk had during his career.

Again the Eastern Conference coaches tend to disagree with you, and I'll trust their judgement of talent over yours...

Walker is trash now, but was an All Star for Boston, no matter what your opinion is of him as a player. I wouldn't want him on the Spurs, but then again the Spurs don't have Marc Cuban running their team... thank God!

[Goran Dragic]

Now who's the dumbass?


The person who considers Antoine Walker an all star caliber player.

[dirk4mvp]

Uh, Dirk took that Dallas team to the Finals who was the only all star on that team. Unless you're counting Stackhouse who was 6 years removed from his last ASG, then you're really reaching.

[dirk4mvp]

hold on.

[Goran Dragic]

I wouldn't want him on the Spurs

Thanks for playing.

[Dunc n Dave]

Allen Iverson is still considered a top player?

He is still an All Star talent, but his attitude is cancerous, so teams take a pass on him, as they should. Chemistry>individual talent

[Greg Oden]

Jerry Stackhouse, your 2006 NBA all-star!

[Greg Oden]

The person who considers Antoine Walker an all star caliber player.

:lmao

[Goran Dragic]

He is still an All Star talent, but his attitude is cancerous, so teams take a pass on him, as they should. Chemistry>individual talent


Thanks for just mind fucking yourself with that Antoine Walker argument.

[Goran Dragic]

So you just admitted that having two "all star level talents" on your team doesn't mean jack shit?

[Goran Dragic]

DeSagana Diop (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/diopde01.html), your 2006 NBA all star game MVP!!!

[Greg Oden]

DeSagana Diop (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/diopde01.html), your 2006 NBA all star game MVP!!!

He did after all shut down Tim Duncan in game 7.

[Goran Dragic]

^therefore he's the best defender of all time.

[Dunc n Dave]

So you just admitted that having two "all star level talents" on your team doesn't mean jack shit?

Having 3 All Star quality players (since Dirk was also on the team) does not qualify your team as "mediocre."

It's not my fault that Mark Cuban favors stats over chemistry. The point I'm making is Dirk did not have to put the "mediocre team" on his back all those years like some of the Mavs fans try to claim. He has always had plenty of players around him capable of stepping up and scoring for him.

Guys like David Robinson had to struggle through several years playing with guys like Vinny Del Negro, Avery Johnson, a washed up Chuck Person, and Willie Anderson as 2nd and 3rd options. HE carried those teams

Dirk has always had 2 or more quality guys around him to shoulder some of the load. Dirk hasn't carried anyone.

[Greg Oden]

Robinson didn't carry shit. Duncan carried his soft sorry ass once he got there.

[Dunc n Dave]

FYI, in 2006, no other player on Dallas made the AS team or even came close to making the AS team.

So what's your point?

[Goran Dragic]

Having 3 All Star quality players (since Dirk was also on the team) does not qualify your team as "mediocre."

It's not my fault that Mark Cuban favors stats over chemistry. The point I'm making is Dirk did not have to put the "mediocre team" on his back all those years like some of the Mavs fans try to claim. He has always had plenty of players around him capable of stepping up and scoring for him.

Guys like David Robinson had to struggle through several years playing with guys like Vinny Del Negro, Avery Johnson, a washed up Chuck Person, and Willie Anderson as 2nd and 3rd options. HE carried those teams

Dirk has always had 2 or more quality guys around him to shoulder some of the load. Dirk hasn't carried anyone.


It's not Dirk's fault either. There you go again with the self-ownage.

[Goran Dragic]

So what's your point?


My point is your "2+ all stars every year" statement is fuckin stupid.

[Dunc n Dave]

Robinson didn't carry shit. Duncan carried his soft sorry ass once he got there.

Robinson carried those early 90's teams. Yeah, they didn't win a title, but who could with those guys as a supporting cast?

[Goran Dragic]

Robinson carried those early 90's teams.


To what>

[Dunc n Dave]

My point is your "2+ all stars every year" statement is fuckin stupid.

My point is you can't read... I said "all Star QUALITY" players, not All Stars in the same year they played with Dirk.

Manu hasn't been an All Star since 2005. Does that mean he's not an "All Star Quality" player anymore?

[Dunc n Dave]

To what>

If you quit picking and choosing parts of my post to quote, you'd answer your own fucking questions.

[Dunc n Dave]

It's not Dirk's fault either. There you go again with the self-ownage.

How is the Mavs having a dumbass for an owner, self ownage? What are you, 14?

[ambchang]

Let me re-phrase that. Most superstars are playing their best ball between 28-32. After that, they take that gradual plunge towards retirement. Pippen on the other hand was a total scrub when he left the Bulls, and he was not old. Just look at his numbers and you'll see.

Well, Pippen hit 33 when he went to Houston.
He also willingly took on a lesser roll on a rockets team with Hakeem and Barkley, and he was still a 14/6/6 guy. I wouldn't call that a total scrub.

His stats didn't even look that bad until he hit 37/38 years old.

[baseline bum]

He did after all shut down Tim Duncan in game 7.

True. Duncan's measly 41 point 15 rebound performance was unacceptable by any metric.

[Greg Oden]

True. Duncan's measly 41 point 15 rebound performance was unacceptable by any metric.

I think it was evident when he made Duncan miss 2 point blank layups. Or beat him to that loose ball.

[Goran Dragic]

How is the Mavs having a dumbass for an owner, self ownage? What are you, 14?

It's self ownage because the Mavs having a dumb ass owner is something that only made it harder for Dirk to reach the finals.

[Goran Dragic]

Manu hasn't been an All Star since 2005. Does that mean he's not an "All Star Quality" player anymore?


Yes, it does mean he's not an all star quality player anymore. Next question.

[Dunc n Dave]

Yes, it does mean he's not an all star quality player anymore. Next question.

:rollin I've heard enough. You are definitely either under the age of 17 or a certifiable idiot.

Let me guess; Goran Dragic IS an All Star quality player, right?:rolleyes

[Dunc n Dave]

I think it was evident when he made Duncan miss 2 point blank layups. Or beat him to that loose ball.

Way to SLIIIIIDE around that little error. I'll refrain from laughing and calling you an idiot though. No need. We all make mistakes.

[Frank Lucas]

:rollin I've heard enough.


Says the idiot who still thinks Manu is an all star quality player. In order to be an all star quality player, you need to have more than a 5% chance at making the all star game.

[ginobili's bald spot]

Pippen has 0 final MVP, so i put him behind Hondo, Parker and Billups

There are some real morons on this site. :rolleyes

[Dunc n Dave]

Says the idiot who still thinks Manu is an all star quality player. In order to be an all star quality player, you need to have more than a 5% chance at making the all star game.

Says the Knicks fan whose team doesn't have a SINGLE player that the Spurs would even THINK about trading Manu for...

You'll be eating crow when Manu comes back 100% and is dominating the 4th quarter of games. Even the Laker fans admit the Spur they fear the most in the 4th is Manu.

[dirk4mvp]

Way to SLIIIIIDE around that little error. I'll refrain from laughing and calling you an idiot though. No need. We all make mistakes.

Greg's point is correct. Diop caused him to miss 2 bunnies and beat him to a loose ball.

[Dunc n Dave]

Greg's point is correct. Diop caused him to miss 2 bunnies and beat him to a loose ball.

So being nearby a guy who misses two putbacks and beating him to ONE loose ball = shutting him down?

So if I find a clip of Matt Bonner beating Dirk to a loose ball that means Bonner owns Dirk by your logic? Riiiiiight....:rolleyes

Nice try but no one's buyin' it. People miss tip ins and putback all the time; even the greats. "Holding a guy" to 42pts and 14 rebs doesn't get cancelled out because you beat him to one loose ball and watch as he gets 2 put back attempts. Your buddy said Diop shut down Duncan in game 7. He was wrong.

[dirk4mvp]

lol You got butthurt by my comment, but let this one go by?



^therefore he's the best defender of all time.

Pick your battles.

[Dunc n Dave]

lol You got butthurt by my comment, but let this one go by?




Pick your battles.

He was being sarcastic, you were not. No need to respond to obvious sarcasm.

[dirk4mvp]

If you didn't have shit for brains, you'd pick it up.

[Dunc n Dave]

If you didn't have shit for brains, you'd pick it up?

Perhaps if your posts had more depth to them, people would be able to better judge your intelligence (or lack thereof). But that might get in the way of inflating your post count to make yourself feel more "respected" on an internet message board if you gave more than a one sentence reply, right?
Yet you still always find the time to throw a "fucking idiot," "shit for brains," or "dumbass" in at the end? Nice...:toast

[dirk4mvp]

Stick to arguing with Culburn, shit for brains.

[Dunc n Dave]

Stick to arguing with Culburn, shit for brains.

Another inspiring one-liner. Soon you'll be at 15,000 posts by Sunday and the ultimate in message board respect.:toast

[dirk4mvp]

Stick to arguing with Culburn, shit for brains.

[LnGrrrR]

So... is Dirk better than Pippen or not? :lol

[Dunc n Dave]

Stick to arguing with Culburn, shit for brains.

Keep up the one liners. Just 300 more posts to go before you reach message board IMMORTALITY.

Don't let me slow you down by asking you to provide more than 1 sentence takes.