Thuglife: The GOP's Only Remaining Option

[Nbadan]

Who are those disruptors shouting at health-care townhall meetings anyway?


oPOOcDfXz_c

[Wild Cobra]

Funny. I get allot of things E-Mailed to me since going to a Tea Party and giving my email address to them. Not that. The closest thing I have seen was on the Rodger Hedgecock program (http://www.rogerhedgecock.com/). That's where I got the extracts of what's on HB3200. He posted it to arm listeners with questions to ask their congressmen at town halls, to be able to quote page and line of the bill. Most these people don't even know what they are voting on.
Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access 2 individs finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to you banks accountsts for electronic funds transfer

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions & community orgs (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Govt control.

PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private health care plans in the Exchange

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!

PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic appropropriate services. Example - Translationfor illegal aliens

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Benefit Levels for Plans. #AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed

PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice

pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly

pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST automatiocally enroll employees into pubic option plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for health care for part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll of 400k & above who does not provide public option. pays 8% tax on all payroll

pg 150 Lines 9-13 Business payroll between 251k & 400k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable health care according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of inc
ome


Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NON-RESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay for their health care)

Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of health care Administration (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans financial/personal records

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that

Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr's time, professional judgment, etc. Literally value of humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131 Govt mandates & controls productivity for private health care industries

PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs

PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems preventable readmissions.

Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission- Govt will penalize you.

Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investmen t. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand

pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can u say ACORN?!!

Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. Health care the way they want. Rationing

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv. Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of special needs people!

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Committee. Can you say health care by phone?

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "adv. care planning consult" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12 "adv. care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment u will have at end of life

Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage

Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services

[boutons_deux]

WC relaying the lies he receives from right-wing, hating terrorists in the employ of the health-profit industry.

[Wild Cobra]

WC relaying the lies he receives from right-wing, hating terrorists in the employ of the health-profit industry.

Really? How would you know that without pulling it out your ass? Evidence? Have you looked up the material I listed?

[boutons_deux]

the reform bill(s) aren't done, yet, and the WH will have their say.

Oh dear researcher, please put a Dem/Repug identifier on each of your line items.

any right winger whining about red-herring Acorn exposes his lack of seriousness and authenticity.

[DarrinS]

Nbadan gives us a great example of why MSNBC is always last in ratings.

[hope4dopes]

Has anyone told this chick that women can be smart too, they don't have to ape men in order to appear intelligent.....Well the media is totally become a tool of the state...... I like her calling citizens enraged by a heavy handed and oppresive goverment "unruly consituents" as though they are bad children who don't know their place in the world.This was the same bullshit that was shoveled when the tea parties started up ..it was all organized by fox and rush limbaugh, "journalists" were not reporting the news they were actually attacking protesters, and villefiying them while on air. They tried to sell the idea that the tea parties were not expressions of the people, but that dog just didn't hunt, I doubt this one will either.I guess the administration has now found another group to put on it's right wing extremist watch list.If were not carefull the only ones not on the list will be ACORN and the rev.Wright.I think we're going to need a watch list czar.

[TheProfessor]

Nbadan gives us a great example of why MSNBC is always last in ratings.
So ratings = validity? This sounds like a Suns fan's argument...

[TheProfessor]

Nothing wrong with people exercising their First Amendment rights, but I think people are (again) being intellectually dishonest about where these individuals are coming from and who's organizing them, similar to much of the Tea Party stuff. Let's just call a spade a spade.

[DarrinS]

Nothing wrong with people exercising their First Amendment rights, but I think people are (again) being intellectually dishonest about where these individuals are coming from and who's organizing them, similar to much of the Tea Party stuff. Let's just call a spade a spade.



Why is everyone assuming these people are all conservatives? One of these was in Austin, which is a liberal Mecca.


MSNBC has devoted a LOT of time to "birthers" -- and now THIS "vast" right-wing conspiracy.


I've never even heard of the groups that Maddow mentioned.


There's a reason that congress is trying to rush Obamacare. They're afraid people will have time to become informed.

[ChumpDumper]

Why is everyone assuming these people are all conservatives? One of these was in Austin, which is a liberal Mecca.Yeah, there are no conservatives in Austin. Not one.



MSNBC has devoted a LOT of time to "birthers" -- and now THIS "vast" right-wing conspiracy.


I've never even heard of the groups that Maddow mentioned.You've heard of every group ever.



There's a reason that congress is trying to rush Obamacare. They're afraid people will have time to become informed.They're in such a rush, they went on vacation for a month.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Nothing wrong with people exercising their First Amendment rights, but I think people are (again) being intellectually dishonest about where these individuals are coming from and who's organizing them, similar to much of the Tea Party stuff. Let's just call a spade a spade.

Bingo..zero intellectual honesty.

[DarrinS]

Meaningless drivel.

[ChumpDumper]

Ignorant whining.

[101A]

Why is everyone assuming these people are all conservatives?

Almost are probably are conservative.

So?

More people wear the conservative label than the liberal or progressive label in this country.

[TheProfessor]

Why is everyone assuming these people are all conservatives? One of these was in Austin, which is a liberal Mecca.


MSNBC has devoted a LOT of time to "birthers" -- and now THIS "vast" right-wing conspiracy.


I've never even heard of the groups that Maddow mentioned.


There's a reason that congress is trying to rush Obamacare. They're afraid people will have time to become informed.
You don't think there are conservatives in Austin? As someone who has actually lived there, I can tell you that's silly. Plenty of Ron Paul fans out there.

And I wouldn't call people standing there shouting things that have been spoon-fed to them terribly "informed." They want to make this seem like it's some organic uprising, just like the Tea Parties, and that simply isn't the case. And that's fine, but just stop pretending.

[ChumpDumper]

DarrinS is surprised to find out there are conservatives in Austin.

He was also surprised Obama turned out to be a liberal.

[101A]

Nothing wrong with people exercising their First Amendment rights, but I think people are (again) being intellectually dishonest about where these individuals are coming from and who's organizing them, similar to much of the Tea Party stuff. Let's just call a spade a spade.

I didn't attend any tea parties myself; but I know my Mom (64 year old widow) went to the one in San Antonio with ~20 friends.

Who do you propose they are, exactly? Who organized them?

Please enlighten me. Wouldn't want to be intellectually dishonest.

[DarrinS]

They want to make this seem like it's some organic uprising, just like the Tea Parties, and that simply isn't the case. And that's fine, but just stop pretending.



If Rachel Maddow says so, that's good enough for me.


But why didn't I get the memo?

[DarrinS]

And when did Chumpy start buying into Nbadan-style conspiracy theories?

[TheProfessor]

If Rachel Maddow says so, that's good enough for me.


But why didn't I get the memo?
So...your only evidence against it is that you didn't get an email?

[hope4dopes]

You don't think there are conservatives in Austin? As someone who has actually lived there, I can tell you that's silly. Plenty of Ron Paul fans out there.

And I wouldn't call people standing there shouting things that have been spoon-fed to them terribly "informed." They want to make this seem like it's some organic uprising, just like the Tea Parties, and that simply isn't the case. And that's fine, but just stop pretending.

Yeah tell a big enough lie often enough and loud enough and it becomes the truth.I actually recieved my orders to speak out against this goverment from my zionist master not fox or rush limbaugh.

[TheProfessor]

Yeah tell a big enough lie often enough and loud enough and it becomes the truth.I actually recieved my orders to speak out against this goverment from my zionist master not fox or rush limbaugh.
No, the big lie is that this is grass-roots. It's simply not. And I don't think that's conspiratorial at all, we've seen it before. You want to ridicule me because you have no argument against it. So either bring something to the table or sit down.

[ChumpDumper]

And when did Chumpy start buying into Nbadan-style conspiracy theories?Your political ignorance is no conspiracy.

[TheProfessor]

And when did Chumpy start buying into Nbadan-style conspiracy theories?
When did you start denying what was right in front of your face? I really don't think it's even that bad, these companies have financial stakes in the matter and are organizing people. As long as they stay within the boundaries of allowed political speech, whatever.

[hope4dopes]

No, the big lie is that this is grass-roots. It's simply not. And I don't think that's conspiratorial at all, we've seen it before. You want to ridicule me because you have no argument against it. So either bring something to the table or sit down.

Oh I see you and that dolt on msnbc make unsubstaniated charges against everyone going to speak out against this regime and the onus of proof lies on me that they are not part of some grand plot.What next must I submit concrete proof that lepruchans do not in fact exist.

[angrydude]

You don't think there are conservatives in Austin? As someone who has actually lived there, I can tell you that's silly. Plenty of Ron Paul fans out there.

And I wouldn't call people standing there shouting things that have been spoon-fed to them terribly "informed." They want to make this seem like it's some organic uprising, just like the Tea Parties, and that simply isn't the case. And that's fine, but just stop pretending.

This spoon fed red herring crap is tiring. Both sides are the same.

If all conservatives are spoon fed, I want to know how all liberals become so enlightened? Most people don't have the time to do more than listen to a media outlet for their info.

The failing on both sides is that all media is agenda driven and says stupid things. And the liberal stuff just has the advantage of getting there first and marking itself as "official."

[101A]

No, the big lie is that this is grass-roots. It's simply not. And I don't think that's conspiratorial at all, we've seen it before. You want to ridicule me because you have no argument against it. So either bring something to the table or sit down.


Define "Grass Roots".

[ElNono]

Define "Grass Roots".

gCdGqed6Ajg

[hope4dopes]

When did you start denying what was right in front of your face? I really don't think it's even that bad, these companies have financial stakes in the matter and are organizing people. As long as they stay within the boundaries of allowed political speech, whatever.
I see your from the Micheal Moore school of intellectual honesty well in that case in your own community, which you know best, tell me how much money exactlly did Fox donate to your local tea party... how many buses did fox hire to bus in these agitators.....where did the agitators fox hired come from....where is the written orders we all recieved....who at fox is in charge of the cadre. in the intrest of intellectual honesty.

[jack sommerset]

I love it. I would go if my rep was for free healthcare and noone told me what to say or how to act. Amazes me that anyone feels sorry for these politicians after what they have done to our country. That is democrats and republicans.

They say more often than not on the democratic shows the republicans are not organized but now when the "hecklers" or "thugs" show up all of a sudden they are. Double standard bullshit political media. OLD

[TheProfessor]

This spoon fed red herring crap is tiring. Both sides are the same.

If all conservatives are spoon fed, I want to know how all liberals become so enlightened? Most people don't have the time to do more than listen to a media outlet for their info.

The failing on both sides is that all media is agenda driven and says stupid things. And the liberal stuff just has the advantage of getting there first and marking itself as "official."
I don't think I took a position on liberal enlightenment in this thread. And wouldn't you say you're playing into one agenda or another by saying something like liberals get there first and make it "official?" What does that even mean? That sounds like liberals complaining that conservatives dominate the airwaves and control the political dialogue through talking points. You're playing the game, even when you pretend you're not.

[TheProfessor]

Oh I see you and that dolt on msnbc make unsubstaniated charges against everyone going to speak out against this regime and the onus of proof lies on me that they are not part of some grand plot.What next must I submit concrete proof that lepruchans do not in fact exist.
But see, you're just refusing to refute her story in any way, and bringing in some absurd analogy to prove your point. Stop your grandstanding and address it. Or don't, I don't care.

[DarrinS]

So, there's no possibility that people are against the bill because of what's in it? (see Wild Cobra's post on first page)


Why not address these points instead of trying of just trying to smear the opposition?

[TheProfessor]

So, there's no possibility that people are against the bill because of what's in it? (see Wild Cobra's post on first page)


Why not address these points instead of trying of just trying to smear the opposition?
Oh, I have no doubt that some are very legitimately upset about the entire thing. And I'm not trying to smear them, simply saying that there are other entities involved in the organization. MSNBC might want to smear them for that, but it doesn't bug me. Just people getting involved in the process.

[101A]

I don't think I took a position on liberal enlightenment in this thread. And wouldn't you say you're playing into one agenda or another by saying something like liberals get there first and make it "official?"

He's referring to the "traditional" media outlets:

CBS, NBC, ABC and the Newspapers (also including the AP, Reuters, et al.)

[ElNono]

He's referring to the "traditional" media outlets:

CBS, NBC, ABC and the Newspapers (also including the AP, Reuters, et al.)

You left CNN out... are you a lefty commie?

[TheProfessor]

He's referring to the "traditional" media outlets:

CBS, NBC, ABC and the Newspapers (also including the AP, Reuters, et al.)
So, all media is agenda-driven, and all traditional media outlets are driving the liberal agenda and making it "official."

[ElNono]

I should add... we discussed this with Cobra a while back...
'traditional' media will not hesitate to turn ultra right wing if that's what's popular and sells more ads... it's a business after all...

[Wild Cobra]

So, there's no possibility that people are against the bill because of what's in it? (see Wild Cobra's post on first page)


Why not address these points instead of trying of just trying to smear the opposition?
The Lemming's don't care Darrin. They just do as their masters say.

[TheProfessor]

The Lemming's don't care Darrin. They just do as their masters say.
I hope the irony of this statement isn't lost on you.

[Wild Cobra]

I hope the irony of this statement isn't lost on you.
Ah, but we are just directed to factual information instead of being told propaganda is fact.

I edited that earlier posting and added the link to his program. Here is is again:

Roger Hedgecock Program (http://www.rogerhedgecock.com/)

When I heard him on the air a few nights ago, his remarks were "don't believe me, read the bill." He explained that's why he gave page and line. If you go to his site, you see he also linked the bill, HB 3200.

I dare you. Look the stuff up yourself instead of being a lemming.

[101A]

So, all media is agenda-driven, and all traditional media outlets are driving the liberal agenda and making it "official."

You asked what he meant. I told you.

[LnGrrrR]

Is it a bad thing that gov healthcare will be rationed? I mean, I would expect that the government will draw the line at payments somewhere down the road, like extending lifespan by six months at the cost of millions of dollars or something like that.

I mean, that makes sense to me. You want better healthcare, pony up.

And what's so surprising about the gov using ACORN, Americorps etc to sign up groups? I mean, other than the fact that OMG IT'S ACORN!

Honestly, alot of stuff on that list WC just makes sense from a fiscal standpoint.

Whoever wrote that list is trying to have it both ways.. ."OMG! Do you notice that they'll restrict care and ration healthcare!" Well... duh. Did the writer expect unlimited health care for everyone? And if it DID say that, the author could go, "Do you know how much that would cost?!?! ZOMG"

[Wild Cobra]

Honestly, alot of stuff on that list WC just makes sense from a fiscal standpoint.

I don't disagree with that. However, starting down this path will lead to a destruction of the free market health care system, taking freedom away from us who already can and do pay for our own.

Health care is not a right, but this would take away my right to have health care in the manner I choose.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

ahhh. nice to see wesley crusher has a new gig.

[DarrinS]

is it a bad thing that gov healthcare will be rationed?


yes!!!!

[George Gervin's Afro]

yes!!!!

as opposed to insurance companies rationing care now? are you against that kind of rationing?

[DarrinS]

lN3z4eeTc8U

[LnGrrrR]

I don't disagree with that. However, starting down this path will lead to a destruction of the free market health care system, taking freedom away from us who already can and do pay for our own.

Health care is not a right, but this would take away my right to have health care in the manner I choose.

I don't get this argument.

If the health care is THAT bad, won't a free market health care system spring up in its place?

Don't we have government run businesses with private sector equivalents, like schools and mail delivery?

[LnGrrrR]

yes!!!!

Why?

[DarrinS]

If the health care is THAT bad, won't a free market health care system spring up in its place?


I think that's what you're starting to see happen in Canada.


I just don't know why we don't try to learn from other countries that have tried this model and failed.

[ElNono]

I think that's what you're starting to see happen in Canada.

Link?

[DarrinS]

Link?


There are probably many more, but here are a couple.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/330/7505/1408?rss=

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1388159

[Wild Cobra]

Dan, maybe you should have looked up that first Town Hall meeting before you posted propaganda.

I have looked and looked. Besides Rachel Maddow saying that Right Principle is behind it, I couldn't even find a reference to such a group in the search engines. I wondered if she made it all that up, and the memos... OMG... More fake memos I bet...

Anyway, once I found the site Right Principles (http://rightprinciples.com/default.html), I was number 3850 on the page visit counter. Real popular site I see. The Madcow gives him far too much credit.

Anyone actually see the memo... Could someone get that MadCow to link it.

Here are the videos before Madcows editing:

UOLs7Cybnqw

XOdlZgMHKcQ

a8UjY3YDlwA

J-Bpshk5nX0

[Wild Cobra]

Here's a far more complete list of what HB 3200 does:

Overview of HB 3200 by Liberty Council (http://www.liberty.edu/media/9980/attachments/healthcare_overview_obama_072909.pdf)

Here's one that stuck out:


Sec. 1637, Pg. 718-719 - ANY Doctor who orders durable medical equipment or home medical services is REQUIRED to be enrolled in, or eligible for, Medicare.Why should all doctors have to participate in Medicare?

[George Gervin's Afro]

These are the bitter tea baggers.. I was watching the Obama bashing er, I mean fox and friends this morning and they had one of these couples on the show. guess wha the first words out of their mouths were? "The biased mainstream media tried portray us as........" do you need to know anymore?

[ratm1221]

If these things get violent, I'll enjoy watching the military crush these fools.

[ElNono]

There are probably many more, but here are a couple.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/330/7505/1408?rss=

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1388159

Thanks. I'm actually for allowing you to have private option besides the public option. I think it's only logical.
Even more interesting, this makes the argument that private insurance couldn't compete with the public option pretty much moot. There's obviously a market for for-profit private insurance in Canada.

[DarrinS]

Thanks. I'm actually for allowing you to have private option besides the public option. I think it's only logical.
Even more interesting, this makes the argument that private insurance couldn't compete with the public option pretty much moot. There's obviously a market for for-profit private insurance in Canada.


Yeah, but they had to take it to the Supreme Court.

[DarrinS]

Dan, maybe you should have looked up that first Town Hall meeting before you posted propaganda.

I have looked and looked. Besides Rachel Maddow saying that Right Principle is behind it, I couldn't even find a reference to such a group in the search engines. I wondered if she made it all that up, and the memos... OMG... More fake memos I bet...

Anyway, once I found the site Right Principles (http://rightprinciples.com/default.html), I was number 3850 on the page visit counter. Real popular site I see. The Madcow gives him far too much credit.

Anyone actually see the memo... Could someone get that MadCow to link it.





Man, no wonder I never heard of it. So, you were visitor 3850 to that site? There were more people than that in the Austin video (or so it appears).

Yeah, all these people at the Town Halls are just bitter tea bagger plants, bought and paid for by the evil insurance companies. LMFAO.

These guys should take a page out of the Obama playbook and just choreograph their own Town Hall meetings. That way, they can choose their own attendees and they will know all the questions in advance.

[ElNono]

Yeah, but they had to take it to the Supreme Court.

Again, that has to do with Canada's regulatory policy on healthcare, not because there's no market for private insurers.

[SonOfAGun]

Stupid libs are too out of touch with common sense to be able to understand why any intelligent american citizen would oppose Obamacare.

How pathetic.

[DarrinS]

Stupid libs are too out of touch with common sense to be able to understand why any intelligent american citizen would oppose Obamacare.

How pathetic.



But, but, but, Nbadan obtained a Youtube video of Maddow, who said the website ThinkProgress obtained a leaked memo from some oscure right wing website, so there is no real opposition to Obamacare. :lol

[Creepn]

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/townhallactionmemo.pdf


Are you guys totally denying that there are no greedy hands behind these disruptions?

[SonOfAGun]

Pathetic libs wouldn't stfu about Obama's community organizing, but now bash common people speaking up to their political officials.

Pathetic libs are pathetic.


Do you pathetic libs honestly think all people are so stupid that they don't UNDERSTAND THE GAME when you pathetically label grass roots efforts "astro-turf"? Do you honestly believe you are the only one who gets it?

[DarrinS]

Obviously, a vast, right-wing conspiracy.


dSeBKgzM5WQ

[George Gervin's Afro]

Man, no wonder I never heard of it. So, you were visitor 3850 to that site? There were more people than that in the Austin video (or so it appears).

Yeah, all these people at the Town Halls are just bitter tea bagger plants, bought and paid for by the evil insurance companies. LMFAO.

These guys should take a page out of the Obama playbook and just choreograph their own Town Hall meetings. That way, they can choose their own attendees and they will know all the questions in advance.

Just like the other guy did..or maybe they should just hire a former male escort to ask rehearsed questions..:lmao you guys are such hypocrites..Bush did it's ok, Obama does it bad...

[jack sommerset]

[You guys are such hypocrites

:lol

[TheProfessor]

From a former Bush and McCain adviser: (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25765.html)

“Town halls have become town hells,” said Mark McKinnon, a former adviser to President George W. Bush. “Special interests and opponents have figured out how easy it is to disrupt town halls and get their own message out. The days of the truly free-form town halls may be over.”

It's really not a question about who's organizing it at this point when Republican advisers freely admit it. The question is, what will Democrats do to respond? Will they mobilize their own units, demonize these protesters, or just keep marching out there and getting killed? The ball's in their court.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

:lol
i was laughing at his quoting skills

[jack sommerset]

i was laughing at his quoting skills

Quotes and Geroge....You can give that fool a quote,tell him where,when and who it comes from, even show him a video of the dude saying it and good old non-hypocritical George will still call you a liar. "he didn't say that, you're a LIAR"

Reminds me of the old Eddie Murphy joke. The one where you are caught red handed fucking a girl. Your girl bust into the room,sees you laying the wood,and when she ask "why" you simply say "wasn't me, don't know what you think you saw but it wasn't me":lol

[George Gervin's Afro]

Quotes and Geroge....You can give that fool a quote,tell him where,when and who it comes from, even show him a video of the dude saying it and good old non-hypocritical George will still call you a liar. "he didn't say that, you're a LIAR"

Reminds me of the old Eddie Murphy joke. The one where you are caught red handed fucking a girl. Your girl bust into the room,sees you laying the wood,and when she ask "why" you simply say "wasn't me, don't know what you think you saw but it wasn't me":lol

Right..of course jack leaves out that he was lying about what the quote inferred.. that's alright jack most people here know your a liar and a hypocrite.. Put that quote up again and show people what you were lying about.. go ahead show them jack..

[Nbadan]

That some of these hecklers are lobbyist driven is surprising enough, but, well, everyone remember when Code Pink or some other activists group tried to speak over presenters who supported the war in Iraq during the Bush years? They would immediately be escorted out by security if not tased...so why aren't these hecklers being escorted out on their asses if they refuse to let the presenter or guests who they don't agree with speak?

[Nbadan]

These people have a right to speak, but lets be intellectually honest about their motivations, also, restricting or any how inhibiting others right to speak, who isn't causing panic like shouting fire in a movie theater, is not protected speech...

[hope4dopes]

That some of these hecklers are lobbyist driven is surprising enough, but, well, everyone remember when Code Pink or some other activists group tried to speak over presenters who supported the war in Iraq during the Bush years? They would immediately be escorted out by security if not tased...so why aren't these hecklers being escorted out on their asses if they refuse to let the presenter or guests who they don't agree with speak?

Tell me when was medea benjiman tassed, when she interupted congressioanl hearings with condie rice, was she tassed when she screeched at rumsfield and his wife at a whitehouse dinner.The city of Berkely gave code pink it's own parking space in front of recruiting stations in order to help them protest against the war until it was revealed and the citizens spoke out, speaking of code pink where the hell are they, where the hell is the anti war movement Obama hasn't got us out of Iraq, on the contrary he's escalated the war in Afganistan, I guess poor little kids and women don't get killed when the war is prosecuted by one of the enlightened masters.

[Vici]

Funny, I live in Austin and it doesn't seem like a liberal Mecca at all.

[ChumpDumper]

Tell me when was medea benjiman tassed, when she interupted congressioanl hearings with condie rice, was she tassed when she screeched at rumsfield and his wife at a whitehouse dinner.The city of Berkely gave code pink it's own parking space in front of recruiting stations in order to help them protest against the war until it was revealed and the citizens spoke out, speaking of code pink where the hell are they, where the hell is the anti war movement Obama hasn't got us out of Iraq, on the contrary he's escalated the war in Afganistan, I guess poor little kids and women don't get killed when the war is prosecuted by one of the enlightened masters.Nice run on sentence, but Iraq isn't Afghanistan. One would think you'd have figured that one out after all this time.

Two or three brigades are to be out of Iraq by December. All combat troops are to be out this time next year, and the final withdrawal is scheduled for 2011. I guess you were too busy whining to notice.

[hope4dopes]

Nice run on sentence, but Iraq isn't Afghanistan. One would think you'd have figured that one out after all this time.

Two or three brigades are to be out of Iraq by December. All combat troops are to be out this time next year, and the final withdrawal is scheduled for 2011. I guess you were too busy whining to notice.

Oh come on chimp how many deaths does Obama have to have to have on his hands before code pink comes out from under it's rock, I thought even one death was to many... so much for your moral outrage.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Oh come on chimp how many deaths does Obama have to have to have on his hands before code pink comes out from under it's rock, I thought even one death was to many... so much for your moral outrage.

Iraq was unecessary. Afghanistan holds the people who were responsible for 911..get a clue..

[baseline bum]

This reminds me on an incident in Pennsylvania where Wild Cobra and the rest of the board conservatives bitched that people interrupting McCain's speech by chanting Obama! should have all been kicked out of the diner the event was held at. Now all of a sudden the conservatives are for freedom of speech again when they can be the annoying jackasses interrupting every word of the speaker.

[hope4dopes]

That some of these hecklers are lobbyist driven is surprising enough, but, well, everyone remember when Code Pink or some other activists group tried to speak over presenters who supported the war in Iraq during the Bush years? They would immediately be escorted out by security if not tased...so why aren't these hecklers being escorted out on their asses if they refuse to let the presenter or guests who they don't agree with speak?

Please please by all means start tassing citizens, yes please have the same police force whose hands you bind to help deport illegal aliens, please turn that police force aginst working class citizens, yes please exclude the people from the political process, and then the next tea party they attend won't be in austin it will be in D.C. and the people will be there in their millions.

[hope4dopes]

This reminds me on an incident in Pennsylvania where Wild Cobra and the rest of the board conservatives bitched that people interrupting McCain's speech by chanting Obama! should have all been kicked out of the diner the event was held at. Now all of a sudden the conservatives are for freedom of speech again when they can be the annoying jackasses interrupting every word of the speaker.

How many people on this board have ever been to a town hall meeting? Town Hall meetings are for the express purpose of letting the peopleTELL THEIR REPRESENATIVES WHAT THEY WANT town hall meetings and the democratic process for that matter aren't places where we sit with our hands on our laps and get talked down to it's where we get to tell the political class what our concerns are the democrat party is now outlawing the peoples right to participating in their own goverment. what next will we be put on a watch list if we go to voting booths.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh come on chimp how many deaths does Obama have to have to have on his hands before code pink comes out from under it's rock, I thought even one death was to many... so much for your moral outrage.I love how board Republicans are the only ones who believe in magic.

[baseline bum]

How many people on this board have ever been to a town hall meeting? Town Hall meetings are for the express purpose of letting the peopleTELL THEIR REPRESENATIVES WHAT THEY WANT town hall meetings and the democratic process for that matter aren't places where we sit with our hands on our laps and get talked down to it's where we get to tell the political class what our concerns are the democrat party is now outlawing the peoples right to participating in their own goverment. what next will we be put on a watch list if we go to voting booths.

And to yell and get emotional and never let the representative get a word in without another cry?

[George Gervin's Afro]

And to yell and get emotional and never let the representative get a word in without another cry?

And repeat talk radio and fox news talking points! you betcha!

[hope4dopes]

And to yell and get emotional and never let the representative get a word in without another cry?

Well you've never been to a town hall meeting....people aren't being emotional they're being outraged....and they have a right to be outraged. These are politicians and just like bishop they have nothing but contempt for the people. our political class live in another world like bishop, and they don't seek to serve the people, but lie, side step,con and intimidate the people.The people have had enough they know the political class has accquired way to much power and they want to take some back.

[hope4dopes]

I love how board Republicans are the only ones who believe in magic.

Oh I don't know you sure bought that HOPE AND CHANGE fairytale hook line and sinker.

[baseline bum]

Well you've never been to a town hall meeting....people aren't being emotional they're being outraged....and they have a right to be outraged. These are politicians and just like bishop they have nothing but contempt for the people. our political class live in another world like bishop, and they don't seek to serve the people, but lie, side step,con and intimidate the people.The people have had enough they know the political class has accquired way to much power and they want to take some back.

Yelling = being emotional
Ranting and raving = being emotional

[ChumpDumper]

Oh I don't know you sure bought that HOPE AND CHANGE fairytale hook line and sinker.Never did. You're the one who thinks 140,000 troops and their equipment can be pulled out of a country safely in a day.

[hope4dopes]

Never did. You're the one who thinks 140,000 troops and their equipment can be pulled out of a country safely in a day.

Like rats from a sinking ship, man that's cold.

[ChumpDumper]

Like rats from a sinking ship, man that's cold.Like what? The withdrawal is going to take pretty much as long as I said it would before Obama even declared his candidacy. Sorry you are still too stupid to figure it out.

[hope4dopes]

Like what? The withdrawal is going to take pretty much as long as I said it would before Obama even declared his candidacy. Sorry you are still too stupid to figure it out.

No I was talking about your denial of your slavish and embarassing following of Obama.whoosh

[ChumpDumper]

You characterization is as stupid and wrong as you are. You are again too stupid to realize that. Whoosh.

[ChumpDumper]

But here's to your slavish and embarrassing devotion to your wish that everything in Iraq, Afghanistan and the US economy gets worse for your party's political advantage. Yours is truly the hope of a dope. :toast

[hope4dopes]

But here's to your slavish and embarrassing devotion to your wish that everything in Iraq, Afghanistan and the US economy gets worse for your party's political advantage. Yours is truly the hope of a dope. :toast

Damn your unraveling faster than Obama.

[Winehole23]

Damn your unraveling faster than Obama.And your string's totally played out, only you didn't notice. All you do is accuse your detractors of being demented thralls of the so-called Obama cult. Maybe you should stop to think that it is you that people primarily object to, rather than your professed beliefs.

[Winehole23]

Though those are often objectionable too.

[LnGrrrR]

How many people on this board have ever been to a town hall meeting? Town Hall meetings are for the express purpose of letting the peopleTELL THEIR REPRESENATIVES WHAT THEY WANT town hall meetings and the democratic process for that matter aren't places where we sit with our hands on our laps and get talked down to it's where we get to tell the political class what our concerns are the democrat party is now outlawing the peoples right to participating in their own goverment. what next will we be put on a watch list if we go to voting booths.

Where are you at where you still attend Town Hall meetings? It still occurs in New Hampshire, but I know it doesn't in many states.

[101A]

I got my invitation to Arlen Specter's coming up in a couple of weeks; it's only 15 miles away, and I'm gonna try to get in. I'll even try to speak.

Y'all can catch my tazering on Drudge here is a little while.

[TheProfessor]

I got my invitation to Arlen Specter's coming up in a couple of weeks; it's only 15 miles away, and I'm gonna try to get in. I'll even try to speak.

Y'all can catch my tazering on Drudge here is a little while.
Just curious - what were you thinking of asking him/talking about?

[jack sommerset]

:lol @ mob mentality.

[DarrinS]

The White House has joined in on the paranoia


Gyo0bUaG_UQ

[jack sommerset]

It's fucking laughable. All you hear growing up is vote, talk to ur reps, let them know how you feel and when they do Obamas message to the people is they bragged about it so that is not fair. This asshole was elected president because he was a community organizer. Every news outlet I watch says the republican party is not organized. They still are not. I wish this guy would atleast try to live up to his billing. Quit fucking crying. You are president of the USA for crying out loud. We are broke. We have no money to give away free healthcare to 50 million americans. We all are pissed off at the insurance companies. Fix that shit.To simple to make sense.

[George Gervin's Afro]

It's fucking laughable. All you hear growing up is vote, talk to ur reps, let them know how you feel and when they do Obamas message to the people is they bragged about it so that is not fair. This asshole was elected president because he was a community organizer. Every news outlet I watch says the republican party is not organized. They still are not. I wish this guy would atleast try to live up to his billing. Quit fucking crying. You are president of the USA for crying out loud. We are broke. We have no money to give away free healthcare to 50 million americans. We all are pissed off at the insurance companies. Fix that shit.To simple to make sense.

Hell just froze over...

[DarrinS]

Another fruitcake jumps on the "fake opposition" bandwagon.

This, form the person who considers Code Pink and MoveOn her base.


ZV84OBtGpSQ

[DarrinS]

New DNC ad tries to link "fake" anti-Obamacare "mob" to "birthers".

PtTBkxvBq88

[101A]

Just curious - what were you thinking of asking him/talking about?

Healthcare - specifically the "public option"

[Wild Cobra]

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/townhallactionmemo.pdf


Are you guys totally denying that there are no greedy hands behind these disruptions?
I didn't read anywhere in the memo where it advocated anything other than being an informed citizen, and how to have your voice heard. Unless you consider asking pointed questions to rattle the congress member disruptive. If they believe in the agenda, they should have clear answers, right?

Decisions are made by those who are heard. Conservatives are usually lacking at town hall meetings vs. the unemployed liberal. They are either working, or looking for work. This is a good change to have conservative voices heard.

[Wild Cobra]

Healthcare - specifically the "public option"
I hope you read this first and select some realgood questions and facts from HB 3200:

Healthcare overview (http://www.liberty.edu/media/9980/attachments/healthcare_overview_obama_072909.pdf)

HB 3200 (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf)

[ChumpDumper]

Conservatives are usually lacking at town hall meetings vs. the unemployed liberal. Please provide a link to statistics to back up this bullshit claim.

[Wild Cobra]

Please provide a link to statistics to back up this bullshit claim.
Just go to one yourself and see for yourself.

I swear, do you ever get out? Are you living in your mother's basement and only see life through the internet?

What a fucking loser you must be to demand everything be validated by a source.

[DarrinS]

I was listening to a California doctor on the radio yesterday. He indicated that he voted for Obama, but is against H.R.3200.


I guess he is part of fake mob too.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Just go to one yourself and see for yourself.

I swear, do you ever get out? Are you living in your mother's basement and only see life through the internet?

What a fucking loser you must be to demand everything be validated by a source.

In other words your just spouting your opinion as if it is fact with nothing to back it up.

[Wild Cobra]

In other words your just spouting your opinion as if it is fact with nothing to back it up.
I've seen it first hand myself, several times. How do you link such a thing.

Will you ever stop being an idiot?

[George Gervin's Afro]

I've seen it first hand myself, several times. How do you link such a thing.

Will you ever stop being an idiot?


Bush brings reform plan to Iowans
CEDAR RAPIDS (AP) ? President Bush held a town hall meeting in this eastern Iowa city on Wednesday to advance his campaign for Social Security reform, saying he would be stubborn in sticking to his plan.

Bush said changes are needed for younger workers to have a retirement system in place.

"Social Security has worked for a lot of people," the president said. "The problem is there's a hole in the safety net for the generation that is coming up."

Bush delivered his message to a carefully screened crowd of about 1,000 people at Kirkwood Community College. He also spoke live on two of the state's largest radio stations.

The president has made Social Security his top domestic priority and said his message is beginning to resonate.

"People are beginning to hear our message, that we have a problem," Bush said. "This issue is beginning to permeate."

According to Social Security trustees, the system will be paying out more than it takes in by 2017 and could go broke by 2041.

"You've got more people getting greater benefits and living longer, with fewer people paying into the system. That doesn't work," Bush said.

The president is calling on Congress to act now to resolve future funding problems. He told the crowd in Cedar Rapids that he was inviting all ideas to the table.

"The longer we wait, the harder it's going to be for younger workers to make up the difference," he said.

Bush was accompanied by Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, who heads the influential Senate Finance Committee.

"The president and I are like a builder and an architect," Grassley said. "We agree on a blueprint."

Grassley has said that the ability of Congress to approve revisions to the Social Security system depends on Bush's ability to persuade voters that changes are needed.

The veteran Iowa senator has said delaying action even for a year would cost $600 billion.

"We've got to turn up the heat on Washington, D.C., to see this as an issue," Grassley said. "Doing nothing is not an option."

Also attending the events were Reps. Jim Nussle and Jim Leach, both R-Iowa, who have yet to stake out positions on Social Security reform.

With that in mind, True Majority Action, a nonprofit group opposed to the president's plan, began running radio spots in Iowa on Wednesday.

"This makes it easy for Iowans to tell their Congress members not to risk privatizing Social Security," said Duane Peterson, a spokesman for the group.

As part of the revision, Bush wants to allow workers younger than 55 to divert part of their Social Security taxes, up to 4 percent, to private investment accounts, such as stocks, bonds or mutual funds.

At the forum, Bush brought along friendly backers from all generations to urge him on. They included a farmer from near Pella, a nurse from Cedar Rapids and a 20-year-old Kirkwood student from Marion.

Jeff Brown, 36, a University of Illinois economics professor, said he has been studying Social Security for 10 years.

"Social Security faces very severe financial problems and they start pretty soon," Brown said.

Dennis Bogart, 33, who began farming with his father near Pella in 1995, said he favors personal retirement accounts because he wants greater control over this own money.

"I want that money to be available to my son and daughter," he said.

He said he has little faith that Social Security in its current form will survive.

Forum attendees were carefully selected. Only those given tickets were allowed to attend and tickets were limited to Bush supporters known to organizers.

Critics were working to make their voices known as well. A small group of protesters was kept well away from Bush's event, but officials from AARP, the nation's largest group representing older Americans, held a news conference earlier in the day to announce results of a member survey.

Their poll showed 60 percent of AARP members oppose private accounts.
Bush, who will turn 62 when he leaves office in 2008, said those nearing retirement have a moral obligation to protect younger workers.

"People are beginning to understand that the promises made to my generation may not be kept for others," he said.

http://www.globegazette.com/articles/2005/03/31/state/doc424b869e9f98c982362937.txt

So much for the differences..:lmao

Do I need to find you 5 more? 10 more? How many to prove your an idiot?

[Wild Cobra]

http://www.globegazette.com/articles/2005/03/31/state/doc424b869e9f98c982362937.txt

So much for the differences..:lmao

Do I need to find you 5 more? 10 more? How many to prove your an idiot?
Anywhere there is a crowd and the president, it is a screened audience. Town meetings with your congressman aren't so carefully screened.

You continue to show your ignorance. Do you ever think before posting?

[101A]

I hope you read this first and select some realgood questions and facts from HB 3200:

Healthcare overview (http://www.liberty.edu/media/9980/attachments/healthcare_overview_obama_072909.pdf)

HB 3200 (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf)

Thanks, I will understand the subject matter; and also draw on personal experience and expertise with the subject, to, hopefully, make a relevant, reasonable point.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Anywhere there is a crowd and the president, it is a screened audience. Town meetings with your congressman aren't so carefully screened.

You continue to show your ignorance. Do you ever think before posting?


Quarantining dissent
How the Secret Service protects Bush from free speech
James Bovard

Sunday, January 4, 2004


When President Bush travels around the United States, the Secret Service visits the location ahead of time and orders local police to set up "free speech zones" or "protest zones," where people opposed to Bush policies (and sometimes sign-carrying supporters) are quarantined. These zones routinely succeed in keeping protesters out of presidential sight and outside the view of media covering the event.

When Bush went to the Pittsburgh area on Labor Day 2002, 65-year-old retired steel worker Bill Neel was there to greet him with a sign proclaiming, "The Bush family must surely love the poor, they made so many of us."

The local police, at the Secret Service's behest, set up a "designated free-speech zone" on a baseball field surrounded by a chain-link fence a third of a mile from the location of Bush's speech.

The police cleared the path of the motorcade of all critical signs, but folks with pro-Bush signs were permitted to line the president's path. Neel refused to go to the designated area and was arrested for disorderly conduct; the police also confiscated his sign.

Neel later commented, "As far as I'm concerned, the whole country is a free-speech zone. If the Bush administration has its way, anyone who criticizes them will be out of sight and out of mind."

At Neel's trial, police Detective John Ianachione testified that the Secret Service told local police to confine "people that were there making a statement pretty much against the president and his views" in a so-called free- speech area.

Paul Wolf, one of the top officials in the Allegheny County Police Department, told Salon that the Secret Service "come in and do a site survey, and say, 'Here's a place where the people can be, and we'd like to have any protesters put in a place that is able to be secured.' "

Pennsylvania District Judge Shirley Rowe Trkula threw out the disorderly conduct charge against Neel, declaring, "I believe this is America. Whatever happened to 'I don't agree with you, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it'?"

Similar suppressions have occurred during Bush visits to Florida. A recent St. Petersburg Times editorial noted, "At a Bush rally at Legends Field in 2001, three demonstrators -- two of whom were grandmothers -- were arrested for holding up small handwritten protest signs outside the designated zone. And last year, seven protesters were arrested when Bush came to a rally at the USF Sun Dome. They had refused to be cordoned off into a protest zone hundreds of yards from the entrance to the Dome."

One of the arrested protesters was a 62-year-old man holding up a sign, "War is good business. Invest your sons." The seven were charged with trespassing, "obstructing without violence and disorderly conduct."

Police have repressed protesters during several Bush visits to the St. Louis area as well. When Bush visited on Jan. 22, 150 people carrying signs were shunted far away from the main action and effectively quarantined.

Denise Lieberman of the American Civil Liberties Union of Eastern Missouri commented, "No one could see them from the street. In addition, the media were not allowed to talk to them. The police would not allow any media inside the protest area and wouldn't allow any of the protesters out of the protest zone to talk to the media."

When Bush stopped by a Boeing plant to talk to workers, Christine Mains and her 5-year-old daughter disobeyed orders to move to a small protest area far from the action. Police arrested Mains and took her and her crying daughter away in separate squad cars.

The Justice Department is now prosecuting Brett Bursey, who was arrested for holding a "No War for Oil" sign at a Bush visit to Columbia, S.C. Local police, acting under Secret Service orders, established a "free-speech zone" half a mile from where Bush would speak. Bursey was standing amid hundreds of people carrying signs praising the president. Police told Bursey to remove himself to the "free-speech zone."

Bursey refused and was arrested. Bursey said that he asked the police officer if "it was the content of my sign, and he said, 'Yes, sir, it's the content of your sign that's the problem.' " Bursey stated that he had already moved 200 yards from where Bush was supposed to speak. Bursey later complained, "The problem was, the restricted area kept moving. It was wherever I happened to be standing."

Bursey was charged with trespassing. Five months later, the charge was dropped because South Carolina law prohibits arresting people for trespassing on public property. But the Justice Department -- in the person of U.S. Attorney Strom Thurmond Jr. -- quickly jumped in, charging Bursey with violating a rarely enforced federal law regarding "entering a restricted area around the president of the United States."

If convicted, Bursey faces a six-month trip up the river and a $5,000 fine. Federal Magistrate Bristow Marchant denied Bursey's request for a jury trial because his violation is categorized as a petty offense. Some observers believe that the feds are seeking to set a precedent in a conservative state such as South Carolina that could then be used against protesters nationwide.

Bursey's trial took place on Nov. 12 and 13. His lawyers sought the Secret Service documents they believed would lay out the official policies on restricting critical speech at presidential visits. The Bush administration sought to block all access to the documents, but Marchant ruled that the lawyers could have limited access.

Bursey sought to subpoena Attorney General John Ashcroft and presidential adviser Karl Rove to testify. Bursey lawyer Lewis Pitts declared, "We intend to find out from Mr. Ashcroft why and how the decision to prosecute Mr. Bursey was reached." The magistrate refused, however, to enforce the subpoenas. Secret Service agent Holly Abel testified at the trial that Bursey was told to move to the "free-speech zone" but refused to cooperate.

The feds have offered some bizarre rationales for hog-tying protesters. Secret Service agent Brian Marr explained to National Public Radio, "These individuals may be so involved with trying to shout their support or nonsupport that inadvertently they may walk out into the motorcade route and be injured. And that is really the reason why we set these places up, so we can make sure that they have the right of free speech, but, two, we want to be sure that they are able to go home at the end of the evening and not be injured in any way." Except for having their constitutional rights shredded.

The ACLU, along with several other organizations, is suing the Secret Service for what it charges is a pattern and practice of suppressing protesters at Bush events in Arizona, California, Connecticut, Michigan, New Jersey, New Mexico, Texas and elsewhere. The ACLU's Witold Walczak said of the protesters, "The individuals we are talking about didn't pose a security threat; they posed a political threat."

The Secret Service is duty-bound to protect the president. But it is ludicrous to presume that would-be terrorists are lunkheaded enough to carry anti-Bush signs when carrying pro-Bush signs would give them much closer access. And even a policy of removing all people carrying signs -- as has happened in some demonstrations -- is pointless because potential attackers would simply avoid carrying signs. Assuming that terrorists are as unimaginative and predictable as the average federal bureaucrat is not a recipe for presidential longevity.

The Bush administration's anti-protester bias proved embarrassing for two American allies with long traditions of raucous free speech, resulting in some of the most repressive restrictions in memory in free countries.

When Bush visited Australia in October, Sydney Morning Herald columnist Mark Riley observed, "The basic right of freedom of speech will adopt a new interpretation during the Canberra visits this week by George Bush and his Chinese counterpart, Hu Jintao. Protesters will be free to speak as much as they like just as long as they can't be heard."

Demonstrators were shunted to an area away from the Federal Parliament building and prohibited from using any public address system in the area.

For Bush's recent visit to London, the White House demanded that British police ban all protest marches, close down the center of the city and impose a "virtual three-day shutdown of central London in a bid to foil disruption of the visit by anti-war protesters," according to Britain's Evening Standard. But instead of a "free-speech zone," the Bush administration demanded an "exclusion zone" to protect Bush from protesters' messages.

Such unprecedented restrictions did not inhibit Bush from portraying himself as a champion of freedom during his visit. In a speech at Whitehall on Nov. 19, Bush hyped the "forward strategy of freedom" and declared, "We seek the advance of freedom and the peace that freedom brings."

Attempts to suppress protesters become more disturbing in light of the Homeland Security Department's recommendation that local police departments view critics of the war on terrorism as potential terrorists. In a May terrorist advisory, the Homeland Security Department warned local law enforcement agencies to keep an eye on anyone who "expressed dislike of attitudes and decisions of the U.S. government." If police vigorously followed this advice, millions of Americans could be added to the official lists of suspected terrorists.

Protesters have claimed that police have assaulted them during demonstrations in New York, Washington and elsewhere.

One of the most violent government responses to an antiwar protest occurred when local police and the federally funded California Anti-Terrorism Task Force fired rubber bullets and tear gas at peaceful protesters and innocent bystanders at the Port of Oakland, injuring a number of people.

When the police attack sparked a geyser of media criticism, Mike van Winkle, the spokesman for the California Anti-Terrorism Information Center told the Oakland Tribune, "You can make an easy kind of a link that, if you have a protest group protesting a war where the cause that's being fought against is international terrorism, you might have terrorism at that protest. You can almost argue that a protest against that is a terrorist act."

Van Winkle justified classifying protesters as terrorists: "I've heard terrorism described as anything that is violent or has an economic impact, and shutting down a port certainly would have some economic impact. Terrorism isn't just bombs going off and killing people."

Such aggressive tactics become more ominous in the light of the Bush administration's advocacy, in its Patriot II draft legislation, of nullifying all judicial consent decrees restricting state and local police from spying on those groups who may oppose government policies.

On May 30, 2002, Ashcroft effectively abolished restrictions on FBI surveillance of Americans' everyday lives first imposed in 1976. One FBI internal newsletter encouraged FBI agents to conduct more interviews with antiwar activists "for plenty of reasons, chief of which it will enhance the paranoia endemic in such circles and will further service to get the point across that there is an FBI agent behind every mailbox."

The FBI took a shotgun approach toward protesters partly because of the FBI's "belief that dissident speech and association should be prevented because they were incipient steps toward the possible ultimate commission of act which might be criminal," according to a Senate report.
On Nov. 23 news broke that the FBI is actively conducting surveillance of antiwar demonstrators, supposedly to "blunt potential violence by extremist elements," according to a Reuters interview with a federal law enforcement official.

Given the FBI's expansive definition of "potential violence" in the past, this is a net that could catch almost any group or individual who falls into official disfavor.

James Bovard is the author of "Terrorism & Tyranny: Trampling Freedom, Justice, and Peace to Rid the World of Evil." This article is adapted from one that appeared in the Dec. 15 issue of the American Conservative.


Your right Bush's WH handle protestors much differently..:rolleyes

[Wild Cobra]

Your right Bush's WH handle protestors much differently..:rolleyes
And you can be sure the same thing happens with President Obama.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

ah, so now the executive community organizer is objecting to people organizing. got it.

[101A]

Your right Bush's WH handle protestors much differently..:rolleyes

So, if I accept your premise that Obama = Bush - does that make it right?

Why, if anyone criticizes the President, do you feel that the criticism is unjustified if the previous President acted in the same way?

Whether or not the poster is a hypocrite is less important, IMO, than the actions of the POTUS - current OR past. You seem much more concerned with partisan oneupsmanship than actually debating what matters. You'd make a hell of a Congressman.

[Bartleby]

And you can be sure the same thing happens with President Obama.

Obama’s Unscreened Town Hall Audience Is Clean Break From Bush’s Supporters-Only Public Events

Today, President Obama hosted a town hall meeting in Elkhart, IN — which faces the nation’s fastest-rising unemployment rate — to promote his recovery and reinvestment plan. As the Washington Post’s Dan Froomkin notes, Obama traveled to relatively unfriendly territory: Obama lost the county to Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) 44 percent to 56 percent. Despite that fact, the White House did not screen its audience, who had the chance to ask the president questions:

In a dramatic contrast to former President Bush’s town-hall meetings — which were held almost exclusively in party strongholds, with tickets distributed primarily to supporters — it was first-come, first-served in Elkhart on Saturday [when tickets were distributed]. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs explained on Friday: “I’ve watched the President do town halls from 2004 through 2008, and the audience has never been hand-picked, and neither have the questions. And we’re not going to start any of that on Monday.”

What’s more, Obama invited two critics of his package along for the Air Force One ride to Indiana: Rep. Brad Ellsworth (D-IN) and Rep. Fred Upton (R-MI), who both voted against the bill.

The town hall is just the latest way Obama is signaling a clean break from George Bush, who aggressively screened his audience members, even requiring volunteer service or loyalty oaths before being allowed to attend his events. A few of the most notorious examples:

– In April 2005, Bush’s security detail threw out three people from an event in Colorado, citing a bumper sticker on their care that read “No More Blood For Oil.” White House spokesman Trent Duffy said that if there’s any evidence people might “disrupt the president,” they “have the right to exclude those people from those events.”

– In early 2005, North Dakota residents were refused entry to a Bush event after their names appeared on a “blacklist” of people banned from the event.

– In March 2005, people seeking tickets to a Social Security event were quizzed about their support of Bush and his Social Security plan ahead of time.

Bush even screened the assembled group of soldiers he would meet in Iraq during a 2003 Thanksgiving visit: Soldiers had to fill out a questionnaire asking whether they supported Bush.

Froomkin noted that Obama will travel to another lion’s den tomorrow, when he takes his road show to Fort Myers, FL, a county McCain won by an 11-point margin.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/02/09/obama-townhall-break-from-bush/

Obama Addresses Economic Recovery During Stop in Indiana

By Scott Wilson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 5, 2009 1:43 PM

WAKARUSA, Ind., Aug. 5 -- President Obama arrived here Wednesday for a somewhat risky return trip to the RV capital of America, a struggling county where jobs are increasingly scarce and anger is rising.

Obama did not hold a town hall-style event here -- his format of choice -- but instead delivered a relatively short speech appraising the economic recovery and highlighting research grants that he believes will help begin changing the American auto industry.

There were no questions from the audience of manufacturing employees, which greeted the announcement of a $39 million federal stimulus grant for battery technology with applause.

"I believe our ability to . . . prosper as a nation depends on what happens to communities just like this one," Obama told the several hundred employees gathered inside the Elkhart County plant for the company Navistar, which will receive the grant.

"The battle for America's future will be fought and won in places like Elkhart," Obama said, listing more than half a dozen other industrial cities that he said were once "the backbone" of the American economy.

During his February visit to the area, Obama used a town hall forum to sell the public on what eventually became a $787 billion stimulus plan, which he said had worked to slow the nation's steep economic decline. A report released last week showed the gross domestic product shrinking 1 percent over the past quarter, less than some economists expected.

But as a bookend to that visit, this brief trip to the Navistar plant, which makes recreation vehicles, armored vehicles for the military and electric trucks, holds a measure of risk for the White House.

The unemployment rate in Elkhart County is roughly 16 percent, a sharp jump since Obama first visited it in May 2008. A year ago the unemployment rate was 6 percent.

Many here are angry and uncertain. Along the roads of the downtown here, people waved American flags and took pictures. Some held up signs, including ones saying, "Stop Socialism."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/05/AR2009080502374_pf.html

[Wild Cobra]

But he didn't take questions. Go figure.

[ChumpDumper]

No one needed to be questioned to yell like a dumbass.

Still no stats, WC? Go figure.

[hope4dopes]

It's fucking laughable. All you hear growing up is vote, talk to ur reps, let them know how you feel and when they do Obamas message to the people is they bragged about it so that is not fair. This asshole was elected president because he was a community organizer. Every news outlet I watch says the republican party is not organized. They still are not. I wish this guy would atleast try to live up to his billing. Quit fucking crying. You are president of the USA for crying out loud. We are broke. We have no money to give away free healthcare to 50 million americans. We all are pissed off at the insurance companies. Fix that shit.To simple to make sense.

Well when it comes to community organizing Obama takes the approach of, well to paraphrase Orwell.....Some communities are more equal than others.

[hope4dopes]

Another fruitcake jumps on the "fake opposition" bandwagon.

This, form the person who considers Code Pink and MoveOn her base.


ZV84OBtGpSQ


I detest this cretin, she comes from the most affluent and liberal community in the bay area.Where social justice boils down to vote for things that make me fell good, have the working class pay for it, keep an eye on my tax attorney so I don't pay a DIME .....and for god sakes keep the blacks out of Marin County.

[Wild Cobra]

Yep, there's really an organized effort to gather people and teach them how to protest. Here's a smaple of what I get, in today's email:



Oregon Tea Party | Portland
Tax Referral Tea Party; September 7th, 2009; Pioneer Courthouse Square;
gather at 5:00, we start at 6:00
Oregon Liberty
If you owned a small-business and circumstances forced you to choose
between laying-off an employee or not paying your mortgage, which would
you choose? This is precisely the choice many of Oregon's small business'
face today and, with Salem's latest job-killing tax scheme, many could
tomorrow.

The "Tax Referral Tea Party" is ON! September 7th, 2009; Pioneer
Courthouse Square; gather at 5:00pm, we start at 6:00pm.


With this event, we will have the resources to make a statement AND take a
piece of our liberty back -- our volunteers will be gathering signatures to
refer Salem's latest job-killing taxes to Oregon's voters.


Would you please do us the honor of having a look at the "Tax Referral Tea
Party" Interest Form and indicate a few functional areas of interest you
would consider chipping-in on?

Here's the link: http://www.formspring.com/forms/appdevteam-taxreferralteaparty

=============================================

This week's items:

1. Portland Tea Party Weekly Conference CallTelephone
1. August 10th, 2009 1:00pm
2. 1-605-475-6333 Access Code: 201078.
Current Biz:Tax Referral Tea Party
2. David Wu "ObamaCare" Town Hallsobamacare
1.
August 10, 2009 from 5pm - 6pm
Location:McMinnville Police Station
Street:121 SW Adams Street
City/Town: McMinnville, OR
2. August 11th, 2009 from 12pm to 1pm Location:Good Samaritan Hospital
Street:Building 2 Auditorium; 1040 NW 22nd Avenue
City/Town: Portland, OR
3. Come prepared:
1. ObamaCare bulletpoints: (http://www.liberty.edu/media/9980/attachments/healthcare_overview_obama_072909.pdf)
2. Wu admitting he didn't read bills: (http://vimeo.com/5702720)
3. Wu's voting record (http://votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=23797)
4. We can edit any video you may get of the event.
3.
Movie in the Park: HBO's John Adams Part 7/7JohnAdams150
1. August 4, 2009 from 8pm to 10pm
Location: Millennium Plaza
Street: 1st St and Evergreen
City/Town: Lake Oswego
Sponsoring Organization: Oregon 9-12 Project (http://www.oregon912project.org/)
4. General Meeting; Oregon912Projectoregon912
1. August 15, 2009 from 10am to 12pm
Location: West End Building, Willamette Room
Street: 4101 Kruse Way
City/Town: Lake Oswego, OR 97035
Phone: 503-675-2549
Sponsoring Organization: Oregon 9-12 Project (http://www.oregon912project.org/)
5.
Nationwide Recess Rally
1. August 22, 2009 from 12pm to 1:30pm
Location: The offices of our house congressional delegation
Website or Map: Recess Rally (http://recessrally.com/)
Sponsoring Organizations:OregonTeaParty,AFP,FreedomWorks,etc.
2. Portland, LaGrande, Bend, Medford, Roseburg, Coos Bay,
Eugene and Salem will lead Oregon's entry into the 08/22nd nationwide
recess rally to say NO to Socialized healthcare.

6. Lazy Fair BBQ!
1. August 30, 2009 from 11am to 4pm
Location: Eagle Fern Park
Street: 27505 SE Eagle Fern Rd
City/Town: Eagle Creek
Sponsoring Organization: Executive Club via Portland Tea Party
2. See flyer for details: Flyer (http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0BwQ_cn-PUsYdZGZhNWYzMjgtMjJhMS00YWNkLWFiYmEtMWUwMDkyNzgzY 2Q3&hl=en)

=============================================
Public Employee Union (SEIU) Organizers Attack
Man Distributing "Gadsden Flags" in St. Louis:

zTXBOgPCh9w

SEIU Members Attack Man For Distributing Gadsden Flag at Townhall
And the hits keep coming in:

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=============================================
Get the New Oregon Liberty Sticker http:

http://logo.cafepress.com/nocache/4/4199874.jpg (http://www.cafepress.com/LibertySticker)


Oregon Tea Party | Portland

This is information. Not marching orders. On top of that, the 9-12 project is having a problem right now with republicans trying to hijack them! Most of these are non-partisan concerned citizens that have finally had it.