Can we finally call Matt Leinart are complete bust?

[PaulGreco]

Who has the final say when it comes to calling someone a complete bust? I'm not sure, but if you look back at his "career", Leinart is best known for coming out of Paris Hilton's house in the early mornings. Maybe the USC profootball style offense really can't produce NFL ready QB's.

PROFOOTBALL TALK (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/05/leinart-going-in-the-wrong-direction/)

Cardinals quarterback Matt Leinart, the 2004 Heisman winner who has to date been a bust in the NFL, made a much-publicized effort to improve his fortunes by spending part of the offseason engaged in MMA training (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/06/05/glazer-hopes-to-turn-leinart-from-pretty-boy-into-killer/) with FOX's Jay Glazer.

Though it might have transformed the "pretty boy" into a "killer," Leinart also could be on track to becoming an "emergency quarterback."

Leinart reportedly is in a battle with Brian St. Pierre, a guy coach Ken Whisenhunt brought from Pittsburgh, to serve as Kurt Warner's backup.

"I think they're just pushing me (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/32289744/ns/sports-nfl/), as they've been doing for a long time now," Leinart said Tuesday, according to the Associated Press. "I've been through a lot the last couple of years and seen a lot of different situations and stuff, so what's another one for the books?"

Leinart also takes issue with the notion that he's a bust.

"For me, it's just nonsense," Leinart said. "I've learned you don't pay attention to that stuff. Guys are going to try to create controversy or drama and all that kind of stuff. One little article is not going to put me down. I've been through a lot more than that."

But it's more than "controversy" or "drama." It's fact.

Leinart has a career passer rating of 71.7. And, after starting eleven games as a rookie under coach Dennis Green, Leinart has been unable to win the trust of Whisenhunt.

In 2007, Kurt Warner began making relief-style appearances when the Cardinals would fall behind, with Leinart typically returning only after the spark provided by Warner helped erase any scoreboard deficits. Leinart reportedly said that he wanted the team to "ride or die with me (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/cards/2007-10-02-leinart-comments_N.htm)," and then a broken collarbone made Warner the full-time quarterback for the rest of the season.

And last year Whisenhunt threw Leinart and the rest of the league a curve ball by benching Leinart and elevating Warner, who took the team to the Super Bowl.

So instead of Leinart trying to knock off Warner in 2009, Leinart finds himself potentially sliding down another notch -- which possibly could get him traded or cut, in our view.

"To be talking about a competition at the second-team quarterback to me just means there's not a whole lot else going on," Leinart said, "because nobody talks about the battles for the second-team running back or the second-team linebacker and there's no difference in my eyes."

Sorry, Matt. But the gradual disintegration of the career of a top-ten draft pick is always newsworthy. It was one thing to be leapfrogged by a two-time league MVP; this year, the fact that you're in danger of being overcome by a bona fide journeyman slapola merits rubbernecking.

--PG

[samikeyp]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/08/04/cards.qbs.ap/

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. (AP) -- A year ago in training camp, Matt Leinart was trying, and ultimately failing, to keep the Arizona starting quarterback job.

Now he's in a fight to remain No. 2.

Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt assured Brian St. Pierre that he'd get a shot at the backup job to Kurt Warner, and he hasn't backed off that pledge in the first week of camp.

"I think they're just pushing me, as they've been doing for a long time now," Leinart said in an interview on Tuesday. "I've been through a lot the last couple of years and seen a lot of different situations and stuff, so what's another one for the books?"

Leinart says he's confident in his abilities -- and he laughs off suggestions that this is another sign that his NFL career is a bust.

"For me, it's just nonsense," he said. "I've learned you don't pay attention to that stuff. Guys are going to try to create controversy or drama and all that kind of stuff. One little article is not going to put me down. I've been through a lot more than that."

Whisenhunt brushed aside the situation as a non-story.

"To be talking about a competition at the second-team quarterback to me just means there's not a whole lot else going on," he said, "because nobody talks about the battles for the second-team running back or the second-team linebacker and there's no difference in my eyes."

Except when the name is Leinart, who won the Heisman Trophy and directed USC to two national championships before coming to the Cardinals. A year ago, Leinart and Warner had a tough fight for the job before the veteran was named the starter just after the last preseason game.

What followed was a Pro Bowl season for Warner and a spectacular run to the Super Bowl, with Leinart watching from the sidelines. The young quarterback never complained, and he isn't complaining now with St. Pierre in the picture.

"It doesn't bother me at all because I know what I need to do just to continue to have a chance to play and that's all I'm really worried about," he said. "I welcome competition, as everyone else should, because it makes you better, I think."

St. Pierre, undrafted out of Boston College in 2003, has a long relationship with Whisenhunt going back to their days with the Pittsburgh Steelers. St. Pierre became a free agent after last season and was lured by Kansas City after Arizona offensive coordinator Todd Haley became head coach of the Chiefs.

Whisenhunt didn't want to let St. Pierre get away.

"I think that one thing that he wanted to know is he would have a chance to compete," Whisenhunt said, "and I think we've shown that, whether it's the quarterback position or any other position, we believe in competition. So I feel very good about how he and Matt have both competed."

St. Pierre said it's the first chance he's been given in his pro career to compete for the No. 2 job.

"Hopefully it's an open competition," he said. "I understand how people perceive it with Matt being the No. 10 pick a couple of years ago. I have a lot probably going against me, but all I want is an honest chance."

The coaches have been impressed with the growing maturity of Leinart, who at 26 and entering his fourth NFL season seems to have escaped his party-boy image.

"This game forces you to grow up a lot, no matter what position or what you go through," Leinart said. "You become a man, you become a professional, you learn to act like a professional football player."

He also points to his 3-year-old son Cole.

"Becoming a father really made a big difference in my life in the best way possible, as it probably does most parents," he said.

Leinart says he's more comfortable with the offense than he's ever been. He's making the right reads, and the game is slowing down for him, he said.

Since Leinart went down with a broken collarbone in Game 5 of the 2007 season, Warner has made 31 straight starts. Leinart played in just four games last season and was on the sidelines throughout the playoffs.

Last season in New England, longtime backup quarterback Matt Cassel was forced into immediate action when Tom Brady sustained a season-ending knee injury in the Patriots' opening game.

He led the Patriots to an 11-5 mark and turned that into a lucrative deal with the Kansas City Chiefs.

"You just have to always be ready. You look at Matt Cassel's situation," Leinart said. "I realize that I'm one play away but you've just got to keep preparing and keep studying and keep learning as much as you can because when that opportunity comes, I want to play at a high level like Kurt plays at."

Leinart prides himself on his patience but says he is getting anxious.

"I'm starting to get on edge a little bit," he said. "I just want to get out there. I feel I haven't played in a while, which is true, but like I said, I'll be ready to go."

[samikeyp]

Be careful Paul, johngateswhiteley will be coming after you. Matt was the "best rookie qb ever" per JGW. :)

[PaulGreco]

Thanks Mikey, I've built a moat around the house now and pulled back the draw bridge...BRING IT ON, the cannons are locked and loaded.

--PG

[samikeyp]

:lol nice.


Honestly though, I thought Leinart was the best prepared coming out of college and thought he would really be better by now. Oops..then again, I thought Alfredrick Hughes was going to be an all-star. :lol

[Whisky Dog]

At least Vince made a Pro Bowl

[Phillip]

lol leinart

[Dr. Gonzo]

Who will have a better career? Matt Leinart or Brady Quinn?

[Phillip]

quinn

[DBryant88]

lol 2006 draft

reggie bush
vince young
veron daivs
michale huff
matt lienhart
brodrick bunkley
bobby carepenter
Lawrence maroney
Manny lawson
John McCargo
Marcedes Lewis
Kelley Jennings

[PaulGreco]

I think Quinn too.

--PG

[Phillip]

Bunkley is actually pretty solid. mbarber24 is a moron however.

[IronMexican]

Yeah, USC can't produce NFL Ready QB's. Just look at Carson Palmer.

[jack sommerset]

Not calling him a bust yet. People were willing to write off Warner yet he brought them to the Super Bowl last season and almost won the damn thing. My point is the team you are on determines a great deal of ur success you have. Cardinals never seemed to embrace Leinart. Yet he is still there, paying him all that money. Something smells.

[johngateswhiteley]

Be careful Paul, johngateswhiteley will be coming after you. Matt was the "best rookie qb ever" per JGW. :)

its pretty simple.

1) Leinart is behind Kurt Warner...Warner is one of the best QBs in the league

2) Leinart lost his job when he became injured...he's played about a year

3) KenW said St. Pierre would get a shot at backup...whats surprising about that...competition in the NFL? shoot, thats not fair...wait, or is it

...we will see what happens when Leinart gets a shot on another team or Warner gets retired/hurt. only then is it fair to make a judgment...he has basically had his rookie year and thats it...not much of a barometer.

aside from that...

1) carson palmer (pretty good till he got hurt)

2) Matt Cassel (good last year, we'll see going forward)

3) Mark Sanchez (we'll see)

4) John David Booty (maybe not much we'll see)

5) Matt Leinart (we'll see)

finally, considering there are 32 teams in the NFL and close to 250 division 1 and 1aa football schools, with few starting QB jobs available...its great when any player from any school does well. there aren't many great QBs in the league...1 from a school is more than their share. Palmer and Cassel is far more than any schools share. is there any school with more than 3 starting QBs in the NFL? thats where USC is.

think first...

[Phillip]

1) carson palmer (good)

2) Matt Cassel (crap)

3) Mark Sanchez (crap)

4) John David Booty (crap)

5) Matt Leinart (mega crap)

[Phillip]

its great when any player from any school does well. there aren't many great QBs in the league...1 from a school is more than their share. Palmer and Cassel is far more than any schools share. is there any school with more than 3 starting QBs in the NFL? thats where USC is.

2 of whom suck balls

[DBryant88]

1) carson palmer (good)

2) Matt Cassel (crap)

3) Mark Sanchez (crap)

4) John David Booty (crap)

5) Matt Leinart (mega crap)

you can't say sanchez is crap yet he hasn't done anyting yet

[IronMexican]

We really don't know about Sanchez. I don't think Cassel is anything special. He is a game managing QB.

[Phillip]

you can't say sanchez is crap yet he hasn't done anyting yet

your face is crap

[johngateswhiteley]

1) carson palmer (good)

2) Matt Cassel (crap)

3) Mark Sanchez (crap)

4) John David Booty (crap)

5) Matt Leinart (mega crap)

1) Cassel is crap? in his first year starting he was great

2) Sanchez hasn't played yet

3) i'll give you Booty...he might be poop

that being said, i bet USC has more starting QBs in the NFL and more QBs on active roster than any other school. thats damn impressive.

btw, reread my post and understand how great my points were.

[IronMexican]

I feel bad for people who listen to SA radio if he is what you have to hear. If he thinks SC can't produce "NFL ready QB's" then he must not know much.

[PaulGreco]

Hey Johngateswhiteley,

First off, can you really consider Cassel a USC QB? Ya the guy was penciled in there as a bench player but, Cassel spent time at tight end and wide receiver in 2001, and some special teams that year. He started at halfback against California once as well, even making his lone collegiate start at that position. During his four seasons there, Cassel completed 19 of 33 passes for 192 yards, with no touchdowns and one interception. -- BRAVO...BR-AAA-FREAKIN-O

So can you consider him at tightend and halfback as well...please.

I'd rather have these guys

From Boston College...please give a warm welcome to:

1) Matt Ryan
2) Matt Hasselbeck

and ... representing Purdue University

1) Kyle Orton
2) Drew Brees

Do USC QB's get paid, hell ya they do, but do they perform, that remains to be seen my friend.

Palmer has done it, I'll give ya that. Cassel and the fairy dust "The Hoody" sprinkled on him won't last in KC. Sanchez is my boy, see I'm a Jets fan, and there's already word that he'll be sitting to start the year because he's not reading defenses fast enough and does more dancing than throwing.

I will give you this pal, if all three of you U SUCK CALIFORNIA QB's do well, I will come back in here and PIMP you out like no other, but until then, as my first grade teacher use to say to me, "Young man, shut up and sit down!!!"

--PG

[Phillip]

1) Cassel is crap? in his first year starting he was great

2) Sanchez hasn't played yet

3) i'll give you Booty...he might be poop

that being said, i bet USC has more starting QBs in the NFL and more QBs on active roster than any other school. thats damn impressive.

btw, reread my post and understand how great my points were.

no your points suck as always because you're a moron

sanchez will suck

booty sucks

leinart sucks

cassel was only good because he was in the best offensive system in football, throwing behind a great line, to guys like moss and welker. and he still put up very average stats. hes going to suck chode in KC, like most usc qbs

[Dr. Gonzo]

Kyle Orton shouldn't be mentioned as a good QB.

[IronMexican]

Hasselback should be thanking sweet baby Jesus Mark Sanchez isn't taking his job this season.

[IronMexican]

And no shit USC is going to have a lot of busts when they are producing the most players for the NFL. UF probably has the worst track record of all 5 star programs. I couldn't name 5 good NFL players from that school. They produce nothing on offense(Also have the worst track record regarding WR's) and have a couple of defensive players.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Emmitt Smith

[Dr. Gonzo]

Fred Taylor

[Dr. Gonzo]

Matt Bonner

[johngateswhiteley]

Hey Johngateswhiteley,

First off, can you really consider Cassel a USC QB? Ya the guy was penciled in there as a bench player but, Cassel spent time at tight end and wide receiver in 2001, and some special teams that year. He started at halfback against California once as well, even making his lone collegiate start at that position. During his four seasons there, Cassel completed 19 of 33 passes for 192 yards, with no touchdowns and one interception. -- BRAVO...BR-AAA-FREAKIN-O

So can you consider him at tightend and halfback as well...please.

I'd rather have these guys

From Boston College...please give a warm welcome to:

1) Matt Ryan
2) Matt Hasselbeck

and ... representing Purdue University

1) Kyle Orton
2) Drew Brees

Do USC QB's get paid, hell ya they do, but do they perform, that remains to be seen my friend.

Palmer has done it, I'll give ya that. Cassel and the fairy dust "The Hoody" sprinkled on him won't last in KC. Sanchez is my boy, see I'm a Jets fan, and there's already word that he'll be sitting to start the year because he's not reading defenses fast enough and does more dancing than throwing.

I will give you this pal, if all three of you U SUCK CALIFORNIA QB's do well, I will come back in here and PIMP you out like no other, but until then, as my first grade teacher use to say to me, "Young man, shut up and sit down!!!"

--PG

and yet, Cassel took reps and improved at the position...there is nothing to argue. and no reason to shut up and sit down, fool.

Palmer, before injury, was better than any QB you mentioned, save perhaps Brees. and even then, he was right there.

Ryan is as proven as Cassel...and i'd take Cassel right now.

further, grading Sanchez (not that you are) or Leinart, as of now, is childish...for reasons i've mentioned.

last, Palmer and Cassel's small success entirely alleviates USC from this ridiculous discussion...

[PaulGreco]

Are you seriouse IRON....ERRR..."RONMEXICO"

U SUCK CALIFORNIA has "good" college qb's I'm not debating that, but NFL QB's, please!!!

As I said up above, if all three produce at the NFL level this year I will come back and take my spanking from you like a man.

But until then, sorry bro, the numbers don't add up.

Oh ya, btw, if Dirty Sanchez can't beat out a piece of crap QB like Kellen Clemens what does that say about him???

As far as Kyle Orton goes, I think you'll see the QB that he was last year, but better. He now has, get this, it might be hard for you to understand, but, wide receivers that can actually catch the ball, not converted DB's.

--PG

[manufan10]

Matt Bonner

:lol

That one made me laugh.

[IronMexican]

Emmit Smith and Fred Taylor are always the two players I can name on O. On D, they have Derrick Harvey.

[johngateswhiteley]

And no shit USC is going to have a lot of busts when they are producing the most players for the NFL. UF probably has the worst track record of all 5 star programs. I couldn't name 5 good NFL players from that school. They produce nothing on offense(Also have the worst track record regarding WR's) and have a couple of defensive players.

another good point. lots of players entering the NFL from SC...

[manufan10]

And no shit USC is going to have a lot of busts when they are producing the most players for the NFL. UF probably has the worst track record of all 5 star programs. I couldn't name 5 good NFL players from that school. They produce nothing on offense(Also have the worst track record regarding WR's) and have a couple of defensive players.

I think they also have a horrible track record of producing QB's. When "The old ball coach" Steve Spurrier was there, they had awesome QB's but they never translated into the NFL game.

[IronMexican]

Are you seriouse IRON....ERRR..."RONMEXICO"

U SUCK CALIFORNIA has "good" college qb's I'm not debating that, but NFL QB's, please!!!

As I said up above, if all three produce at the NFL level this year I will come back and take my spanking from you like a man.

But until then, sorry bro, the numbers don't add up.

Oh ya, btw, if Dirty Sanchez can't beat out a piece of crap QB like Kellen Clemens what does that say about him???

As far as Kyle Orton goes, I think you'll see the QB that he was last year, but better. He now has, get this, it might be hard for you to understand, but, wide receivers that can actually catch the ball, not converted DB's.

--PG

What do you expect, every 5 star program to have 5 Super star QB's in the NFL? they produced 3 top 10 NFL QB's. So far, one out of two are good and the jury sis still out on the other.


Edit: After I worded that out wrong. I meant to say 3 top 10 draft pick QB's this decade.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Brian Cushing is the next Mike Singletary, only sexier.

[PaulGreco]

Ryan is as proven as Cassel...and i'd take Cassel right now.


Are you serious? Are you really trying to come in here and prove a point when you have a first round draft pick, compared to a guy who went in the seventh. If I remember correctly, Cassel played between Coach Carroll's sneezes.

So ya, I can say he has A LOT more experience than Cassel.

--PG

[Dr. Gonzo]

Matt Ryan benefited from a great running game. I think he and Cassel are about equal.

[IronMexican]

Brian Cushing is the next Mike Singletary, only sexier.

He's a baller.


I think he and Maualuga will be good in the NFL. Clay Matthews was a product of USC, imo. I will root for all of them, though.

[dirk4mvp]

Ryan is as proven as Cassel...and i'd take Cassel right now.



:lmao

[IronMexican]

Are you serious? Are you really trying to come in here and prove a point when you have a first round draft pick, compared to a guy who went in the seventh. If I remember correctly, Cassel played between Coach Carroll's sneezes.

So ya, I can say he has A LOT more experience than Cassel.

--PG

I can say he doesn't. What year was Cassel drafted, 2003 or 4? He sat all that time behind Brady. I can almost guarantee you that Cassel is a lot more "experienced"

I'd take Matty Ice over him, though.

[samikeyp]

think first...


:lol

Simmer down Mary. You know I was giving you shit. :)

That being said....I think to this point, yes, Leinart has been a bust however, there is still time to change that.

Carson Palmer I would put in the second tier of QB's (the first being Brady and Peyton) I think he is a good QB and has overcome flaky talent and a bad front office not to mention a bad knee injury. If he was on a team with more weapons...damn.

Sanchez-too soon.

Booty-back up at best

Cassell-too soon. He did a good job as a backup on a loaded team, now we need to see what he does as the #1 guy.

[dirk4mvp]

ole miss nfl players > usc nfl players

[johngateswhiteley]

Are you serious? Are you really trying to come in here and prove a point when you have a first round draft pick, compared to a guy who went in the seventh. If I remember correctly, Cassel played between Coach Carroll's sneezes.

So ya, I can say he has A LOT more experience than Cassel.

--PG

where was Tom Brady drafted, genius? it doesn't always matter. And Cassel had much more pressure to perform playing on a playoff team replacing Tom Brady. Ryan had zero pressure...nothing was expected...but his team played well. they had a great running game.

KC sucks something awful..so we'll see what Cassel does. its going to be tough.

[PaulGreco]

where was Tom Brady drafted, genius? it doesn't always matter. And Cassel had much more pressure to perform playing on a playoff team replacing Tom Brady. Ryan had zero pressure...nothing was expected...but his team played well. they had a great running game.

KC sucks something awful..so we'll see what Cassel does. its going to be tough.

Hey John, first off, thank you so much for letting me know I'm a genius. That really is really great of you.

So here is my PIMP-SLAP-IN-THE-FACE Moment

Ummm, John, ya Brady was a starter at Michigan, as a matter of fact, lets see, Brady ultimately started every game in the 1998 and 1999 seasons under Michigan head coach Lloyd Carr. During his first full year as starter, he set Michigan records for most pass attempts and completions in a season (214).Brady was All-Big Ten (honorable mention) both seasons and team captain his senior year. The Wolverines won 20 of 25 games when he started and shared the Big Ten Conference title in 1998. Brady capped that season off with a win over Arkansas in the Citrus Bowl. In the 1999 season, Brady led Michigan to an overtime win in the Orange Bowl over Alabama, throwing for 369 yards and four touchdowns.

That right there is pretty close to Cassel's numbers in college, no wait a minute, I retrack that, Cassel never started as a QB in college. And you called me a genius. Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids.

--PG

[johngateswhiteley]

:lol

Simmer down Mary. You know I was giving you shit. :)

That being said....I think to this point, yes, Leinart has been a bust however, there is still time to change that.

Carson Palmer I would put in the second tier of QB's (the first being Brady and Peyton) I think he is a good QB and has overcome flaky talent and a bad front office not to mention a bad knee injury. If he was on a team with more weapons...damn.

Sanchez-too soon.

Booty-back up at best

Cassell-too soon. He did a good job as a backup on a loaded team, now we need to see what he does as the #1 guy.

that comment was for Greco...i only quoted you because you were right. it got me out of my lounge chair/pounding bloody marys.

Palmer has overcome a lot of obstacles...dude is very good. i agree about Cassel...he played well.

[samikeyp]

it got me out of my lounge chair/pounding bloody marys.

I literally :lol 'd on that. Good stuff! :tu

You don't agree with him which is cool because it wouldn't be fun if we all agreed but Greco is the goods. Dude is going to be famous....and he will need a sidekick...just throwing that out there. :)

[johngateswhiteley]

Hey John, first off, thank you so much for letting me know I'm a genius. That really is really great of you.

So here is my PIMP-SLAP-IN-THE-FACE Moment

Ummm, John, ya Brady was a starter at Michigan, as a matter of fact, lets see, Brady ultimately started every game in the 1998 and 1999 seasons under Michigan head coach Lloyd Carr. During his first full year as starter, he set Michigan records for most pass attempts and completions in a season (214).Brady was All-Big Ten (honorable mention) both seasons and team captain his senior year. The Wolverines won 20 of 25 games when he started and shared the Big Ten Conference title in 1998. Brady capped that season off with a win over Arkansas in the Citrus Bowl. In the 1999 season, Brady led Michigan to an overtime win in the Orange Bowl over Alabama, throwing for 369 yards and four touchdowns.

That right there is pretty close to Cassel's numbers in college, no wait a minute, I retrack that, Cassel never started as a QB in college. And you called me a genius. Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids.

--PG

you made a comment about Cassel being drafted in the 7th round, did you not? Brady was drafted in the 6th...your point is now negated. like i said, it doesn't always matter where you were drafted.

i don't care what Brady did in college, obviously he wasn't that great...he's been great in the NFL, though. this conversation is losing course.

[SpursSecurity]

Greco is killin it. Like the stats.

USC is a great school granted. But this is the year to prove.

[dirk4mvp]

jgw, are ole miss nfl players > usc nfl players?

[johngateswhiteley]

I literally :lol 'd on that. Good stuff! :tu

You don't agree with him which is cool because it wouldn't be fun if we all agreed but Greco is the goods. Dude is going to be famous....and he will need a sidekick...just throwing that out there. :)

don't know who greco is, don't care. he might know some stuff...but i've laid out a logical stance and he is responding like a child refusing to give up the nip. its over.

[PaulGreco]

don't know who greco is, don't care. he might know some stuff...but i've laid out a logical stance and he is responding like a child refusing to give up the nip. its over.

John, I'm only messing with you pal. Please don't take anything I say personally. This is entertaining man. It's good to have great debate and this is one of those that can go back and forth.

I appreciate your passion for USC I do, I'm a huge Longhorn fan, and I can see you passion.

I hope all is good man, and didn't mean to offend you in anyway.

This was all in good fun.

--PG

[jack sommerset]

I feel bad for people who listen to SA radio if he is what you have to hear.

You should tune in on the internet from time to time. You might get a kickout of it. I lived there for 10 years and I was forced to listen to Jim Rome when I needed a sports fix while driving durning that time because the locals were idiots. I am not being mean either. Whenever I wanted to make fun of my spews friends or co-workers I would tune in for no more than 5-10 minutes and have plenty of current fire power.

They have no teams around them except the Spews and if they knock them they will not have jobs. Those entire programs are love feast. That gets tired after a bit. The greatest part is when they are talking about a NFL,MLS,MLB, etc and you think there is noway is hell they can possible bring up the Spews but they do. It's amazing.

Question "Who is the worst team in the NFL?"

Answer "I'll say the Bills but I tell u the Spews know how to run a organization, I don't know how the Bills fans put up with such nonsense, They actually signed T.O. Spews would never do that to there fans. They care about winning and morals. We have the greatest coach in the history of the game. He is so underrated, Jackson is good but look what Pop has done. He went out and got Parker from France. No other team would have drafted Parker but he did. The other teams are jealous. They call Bowen a cheap shot artist. The NBA was forced to suspend him to stop the other teams from crying. The Spews donot foul yet they are called for atleast 15 a game. It's unfair but that is the way NBA balances the games. They don't want the spews in the Championship games because we won't get the ratings. Those 4 rings we have were earned, We played against 30 other teams,their fans,the refs,David Stern,Nike and all the corporate heads in TV Land. We are the greatest team in all of sports."

[samikeyp]

They have no teams around them except the Spews and if they knock them they will not have jobs. Those entire programs are love feast. That gets tired after a bit. The greatest part is when they are talking about a NFL,MLS,MLB, etc and you think there is noway is hell they can possible bring up the Spews but they do. It's amazing.

If that were true, Mike Taylor would not have a job. :lol

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Are you really trying to come in here and prove a point when you have a first round draft pick, compared to a guy who went in the seventh.

--PG


Are you serious?

[jack sommerset]

If that were true, Mike Taylor would not have a job. :lol

It's been 3 years so maybe,just maybe it has changed.

[johngateswhiteley]

John, I'm only messing with you pal. Please don't take anything I say personally. This is entertaining man. It's good to have great debate and this is one of those that can go back and forth.

I appreciate your passion for USC I do, I'm a huge Longhorn fan, and I can see you passion.

I hope all is good man, and didn't mean to offend you in anyway.

This was all in good fun.

--PG

if you looked at some of my posts or knew me previously, you wouldn't have wasted your time with this post. im neither insulted nor irritated. that being said...t.u. swallows donkey sperm. been to tijuana?

[PaulGreco]

Well John, If you read the post I left you, it's pretty apart I don't know you or of your fun donkey sperm drinking antics. I just wanted to make sure you didn't end up in a corner all curled up crying.

...and may peace be with you...

--PG

[johngateswhiteley]

Well John, If you read the post I left you, it's pretty apart I don't know you or of your fun donkey sperm drinking antics. I just wanted to make sure you didn't end up in a corner all curled up crying.

...and may peace be with you...

--PG

factually impossible. only t.u. fans and students...i said.

[johngateswhiteley]

dirk4mvp-

i highly doubt it. but i don't recall all the ol' miss players in the nfl, so...

[Phillip]

ole miss > usc

[dirk4mvp]

Deuce > Reggie Bust

[johngateswhiteley]

Deuce > Reggie Bust

thanks for that gem.

btw, fwiw everyone, clemens was named the starter going into camp over sanchez...and now its even. we'll see, sanchez is just a rookie.

[dirk4mvp]

lol still thinking leinart is going to be a good pro.

[760Spursfan]

Who will have a better career? Matt Leinart or Brady Quinn?




Quinn

[PaulGreco]

thanks for that gem.

btw, fwiw everyone, clemens was named the starter going into camp over sanchez...and now its even. we'll see, sanchez is just a rookie.

WOW....WOW....WOW....there chuck full of nuts. Just because you read one headline, doesn't mean we can call you an expert on the situation.

Right now Sanchez has only taken reps twice with the first team. Although Clemens has looked bad, 5 INT's so far, Sanchez hasn't looked any better, he threw two yesterday.

Rex Ryan said Sanchez will get more reps with the first team, but that right now it's like he's dancing with the stars...kinda like how Kenny Mayne did his dance...not very grateful.

Sanchez will get his chance, but offensive coordinator has already gone on record as saying Sanchez is having a hard time reading the Jets defenese; which the reason he's dancing with the ball instead of getting it out fast.

So before you get your USC chubby on, let's all wait until he can at least tread the NFL waters.

--PG

[IronMexican]

And Representing Marshall University:

Chad Pennington
Byron Leftwich


Soon Michigan will have not one, but TWO of the best QBs in the game:

Tom Brady
Chad Henne

Leftwich is a back-up, as is Henne.

[PaulGreco]

And Representing Marshall University:

Chad Pennington
Byron Leftwich


Soon Michigan will have not one, but TWO of the best QBs in the game:

Tom Brady
Chad Henne


I'll give ya the Marshall one if Leftwich can win the job in Tampa. If he doesn't win that job, he should retire. I know he won't because of the money, but come on man, if you can't beat out Luke McCown, you should end it right there. Turn in our helmet, drop your pads, and walk straight to your BMW. Don't look back, just drive off.

--PG

[IronMexican]

Thats where Leftwich is at? I still thought he was at Pittsburgh. He's going to start? Sucks for them. If I was Tampa, I'd get the Freeman era underway. That line is good enough to no get him killed every time he drops back to throw.


And Henne isn't starting right now, brah. If you did stupid shit like that, you could still say USC has more starters.

[IronMexican]

http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/mark-sanchez-hilary-rhoda-gq.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bCh-gAJte7Y/ShODneXv91I/AAAAAAAABgI/M_js7yygMJ8/s400/Mark+Sanchez+GQ+June+Photos.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_AWH-9nLgrTs/Shck6x4kfUI/AAAAAAAAGlY/jMHPKoOG0fs/s400/Mark+Sanchez+4.jpg

Let me see Henne look this good without a shirt, then, I will agree with you.

[manufan10]

^ :lol

[johngateswhiteley]

So great his team couldnt make the playoffs

they went 11-5...it was an aberration.

[bresilhac]

Yeah, USC can't produce NFL Ready QB's. Just look at Carson Palmer.

Carson Palmer was a terrific quarterback prior to the malicious take down at the evil hands of Kimo Von Olhafen. And he's still a good quarterback. The problem in Cincinnati is that the rest of the offense sucks and he's forced to carry the whole unit on his back.

[samikeyp]

Carson Palmer was a terrific quarterback prior to the malicious take down at the evil hands of Kimo Von Olhafen. And he's still a good quarterback. The problem in Cincinnati is that the rest of the offense sucks and he's forced to carry the whole unit on his back.

+1

Mike Brown in the front office doesn't help either.

[bresilhac]

its pretty simple.

1) Leinart is behind Kurt Warner...Warner is one of the best QBs in the league

2) Leinart lost his job when he became injured...he's played about a year

3) KenW said St. Pierre would get a shot at backup...whats surprising about that...competition in the NFL? shoot, thats not fair...wait, or is it

...we will see what happens when Leinart gets a shot on another team or Warner gets retired/hurt. only then is it fair to make a judgment...he has basically had his rookie year and thats it...not much of a barometer.

aside from that...

1) carson palmer (pretty good till he got hurt)

2) Matt Cassel (good last year, we'll see going forward)

3) Mark Sanchez (we'll see)

4) John David Booty (maybe not much we'll see)

5) Matt Leinart (we'll see)

finally, considering there are 32 teams in the NFL and close to 250 division 1 and 1aa football schools, with few starting QB jobs available...its great when any player from any school does well. there aren't many great QBs in the league...1 from a school is more than their share. Palmer and Cassel is far more than any schools share. is there any school with more than 3 starting QBs in the NFL? thats where USC is.

think first...

Good post. Most people scream bust for no other reason than they simply do not like that player or the school he came from. But as you say, Linehart simply has been competing with one of the great quarterbacks of our time. And has failed miserably at it and who can blame him? He'll get his shot eventually when Warner leaves the scene. Then we'll really see what kind of a quarterback he is. Want an example of a true bust? Try Vince Young.

[samikeyp]

Good post. Most people scream bust for no other reason than they simply do not like that player or the school he came from. But as you say, Linehart simply has been competing with one of the great quarterbacks of our time. And has failed miserably at it and who can blame him? He'll get his shot eventually when Warner leaves the scene. Then we'll really see what kind of a quarterback he is. Want an example of a true bust? Try Vince Young.

Like that? :)

IMO, Young left school too early and so far has been a bust. I also think, like Leinart, there is still time.



Bres....As far as Palmer, would you take him over Campbell right now?

[bresilhac]

Like that? :)

IMO, Young left school too early and so far has been a bust. I also think, like Leinart, there is still time.



Bres....As far as Palmer, would you take him over Campbell right now?

Are you kidding me samikeyp? In a heartbeat. Palmer's skillset is way superior to JC's at this point in their careers. Plus Palmer has a command of the field and true leadership ability that JC has never possessed. Will it ever come to pass? It seems doubtful. But one can imagine what it would be like.

[samikeyp]

Are you kidding me samikeyp? In a heartbeat. Palmer's skillset is way superior to JC's at this point in their careers. Plus Palmer has a command of the field and true leadership ability that JC has never possessed. Will it ever come to pass? It seems doubtful. But one can imagine what it would be like.

I agree totally. I would take him over Romo just as fast.

[bresilhac]

I agree totally. I would take him over Romo just as fast.

Interesting.

[samikeyp]

Interesting.

Palmer has proved he can win in December. If he doesn't go down against Pittsburgh that post-season, they probably win that game.

[bresilhac]

Palmer has proved he can win in December. If he doesn't go down against Pittsburgh that post-season, they probably win that game.

Exactly my point. And I see where you're going with the December comment. Tony Romo has yet to prove that he can win a big December game. Let alone a playoff game. That guy is really snake bitten.

[samikeyp]

Exactly my point. And I see where you're going with the December comment. Tony Romo has yet to prove that he can win a big December game. Let alone a playoff game. That guy is really snake bitten.


Yep. There are 2 games that Romo has won that could be remotely called big.

The Packers game in 08 (the two best in the NFC at the time, HFA on the line)

The Giants game last season (needed to win to stay alive in playoff chase)

Problem is, instead of those games being stepping stones to better results, they were the peak. Romo didn't do it all by himself but as the QB he gets credit and blame, deserved or not.

[IronMexican]

You'd be crazy not to take Palmer over Romo.

[JoshO501]

http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2009/8/6/976399/arizona-cardinals-training-camp

We heard over the summer that one of Chris Miller's (QB coach) goals was to improve Matt Leinart's footwork and so far the results have been favorable. Leinart's passes have had much more zip on them than in year's past and it's also made him a more accurate passer. Several reports list Leinart as having the best camp of his young career and that he's shown improvement in every area, including standing in the pocket against a pass rush.

[samikeyp]

You'd be crazy not to take Palmer over Romo.

Yeah but you would say that even if Romo had won 3 super bowls and Palmer was a third stringer for the Hamilton Tiger Cats. :)

[Dr. Gonzo]

Yeah but you would say that even if Romo had won 3 super bowls and Palmer was a third stringer for the Hamilton Tiger Cats. :)

The Hamilton Tiger Cats are a great franchise.

[samikeyp]

The Hamilton Tiger Cats are a great franchise.

To be sure. They are my favorite CFL team.

[IronMexican]

Palmer is the better QB. Romo might have the better team that makes him look better. But, Palmer is still the better QB. before that 2006 playoff game, he was on pace to have a Peyton Manning/Tom Brady career. Shame.

[samikeyp]

Palmer is the better QB. Romo might have the better team that makes him look better. But, Palmer is still the better QB. before that 2006 playoff game, he was on pace to have a Peyton Manning/Tom Brady career. Shame.

So far I agree...but I was still right. ;)

[PaulGreco]

Hey Iron,

Not to be argumentative, but why? If you look at their first three years -- as starters -- (Romo didn't play is first year), they are very--scary--similar

Palmer : 3589 yds per season - 26 TD's - 14 INT's
Romo : 3520 yds pers season - 27 TD's - 15 INT's

Palmer has never won a playoff game. As a matter of fact the only year the Jailgels made it to the playoff under Palmer was 2005 and they lost in the first round.

So, I ask you once again, how can you make this statement, with nothing to back it up except...I say so


You'd be crazy not to take Palmer over Romo.

Now, I stated earlier I'm a J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS fan, but I'm also a Cowboy fan. When you say you'd rather have Palmer then Romo because he's never won in December or playoff game, again I point out the similarities between the two:

Palmer from 2005-2007 in December : 8-6
Romo from 2006-2008 in December : 5-8

Let me throw this out you too, since I did the research. In Dec., the Jailngls opponents records at the end of the year (2005-2007) was 87-121 or 41%.

On the other hand, Romo's opponents in Dec., (2006-2008) was 113-94 or 54%. Last season alone their opponents were a combined 44-19-1.

Does that mean anything? Maybe, it's up to you to judge I guess. But the stats show that Romo has had a more difficult task each Dec compared to Palmer.

Just my 2 cents though.

--PG

[IronMexican]

Did Palmer ever get to play for the Cowboys? They have one of the best lines in NFL. Cincy are run by morons. Who lets go of their starting tackle? And the Steelers wouldn't have beaten the Bengals had Palmer not been taken out. He showed you what he could do in just one play.

[dirk4mvp]

Palmer when healthy is easily top 5, Romo isn't.

[PaulGreco]

Palmer when healthy is easily top 5, Romo isn't.

Based on what? If their numbers are similar how can you state that. I can easily say that the reason why Palmer's numbers are so inflated is because he has to play from behind more, allowing him to air out the ball in the 4th quarter, but that's not the case because Romo's numbers are better than Palmers in the 4th quarter.

Over Palmer's last 3 years he's attempted and average of 134 passes completed 80 for 60.6%, 6.6 TD's and 4.6 INT's

Romo on the on the other hand averaged 102 passed (32 less than Palmers), 66 completed for 64.7%m 7.6 TD's and 3.6 INT's.

A much better QB in the 4th than Palmer.

I can understand your "GUT" feeling, but the numbers just don't represent your stance. I'm sorry.

If Palmer's numbers were better, by a big margain, than I would say yes. Palmer had #85 when he was good and WHOSURMAMA as wide receivers. Romo's had TO and Witten a TE.


Cincy are run by morons. Who lets go of their starting tackle?

MEX -100% agree pal.

--PG

[IronMexican]

Romo has also always had a very good run game.

[dirk4mvp]

PaulGreco, what does your top 10 qbs look like?

[IronMexican]

PaulGreco, what does your top 10 qbs look like?

I'll throw mine out there:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Donovan McNabb
4. Drew Brees
5. Kurt Warner
6. Carson Palmer
7. Jay Cutler
8. Phillip Rivers
9. Big Ben
10. Romo

[dirk4mvp]

If Palmer's numbers were better, by a big margain, than I would say yes. Palmer had #85 when he was good and WHOSURMAMA as wide receivers. Romo's had TO and Witten a TE.



--PG

I know you're not trying to tear down Palmer and prop up Romo. by comparing their receivers. TO's one of the most productive players in history and Witten is pretty much the best TE in the league. And like the Messican said, it's lopsided when you look at lines and the running game.

[gaKNOW!blee]

I'll throw mine out there:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Donovan McNabb
4. Drew Brees
5. Kurt Warner
6. Carson Palmer
7. Jay Cutler
8. Phillip Rivers
9. Big Ben
10. Romo

After the year they had last year you still put Cutler ahead of Rivers?

[IronMexican]

After the year they had last year you still put Cutler ahead of Rivers?

That was the toughest call for me. I still think Cutler is better, by the slightest of margins, though. Plus, he has 2 years less experience.

[PaulGreco]

Romo has also always had a very good run game.

Mex, again based on what facts pal.

From 2005-2007 the Jailngles had Rudi Johnson had two 1,000 yd season, rushing for 1458 (2005), 1309 (2006) -- over 2005-2007 the Jailngle combined to rush for 5,096 yds, 39 TD's

The Cowboys from 2006-2007 had 1,000 yard rusher over that time (2006) Julius Jones -- 1084. Over those three years the Cowboys combined to rush for 5,405 yds, 47 TD's

More TD's ok...most came from instead the 5-yd line. But to say Romo has always had a very good run game, when over the three year span the Cowboys rushed for 309 more yds, doesn't really indicate a better rushing game in my opinion.



PaulGreco, what does your top 10 qbs look like?

Dirk based on the projections (based on yards, TD, INTs) that I have for QB's going into this season this is how I have my Top 10 QB's

Drew Brees (4,100 yds - 33 - 14)
Tom Brady (4,300 yds - 30 - 17)
Peyton Manning (3,900 - 30 - 14)
Aaron Rogers (3,800 - 27 -15)
Philip Rivers (3,700 -27 -14)
Donovan McNabb (3,600 - 26 -15)
Kurt Warner (3,600 - 26 - 16)
Tony Romo (3,700 - 27 -18)
Jay Cutler (3.600 - 24 -16)
Matt Schaub (3,700 - 22 - 17)
I have Palmer right now at 15 : (3, 500 - 22 - 16)

--PG

[samikeyp]

Curious...when a Cowboy QB does well its because of all that are around him...when others do well, its because of them.:stirpot:

:lol

[IronMexican]

You think Rudi Johnson is a bigger threat than Julius Jones, Marion Barber, or Felix Jones? I'd probably take Tashard Choice over Johnson.

[samikeyp]

For me, when all are healthy:

Brady
Peyton
Brees
McNabb
Rivers
Warner
Palmer
Eli
Romo
Cutler

[dirk4mvp]

Based off projections?

So if you had to win a game tomorrow, you'd take Schaub over Palmer?

[dirk4mvp]

Curious...when a Cowboy QB does well its because of all that are around him...when others do well, its because of them.:stirpot:

:lol

It doesn't hurt if you team is stacked with pro bowlers.

[samikeyp]

You think Rudi Johnson is a bigger threat than Julius Jones, Marion Barber, or Felix Jones? I'd probably take Tashard Choice over Johnson.

When his mind was right...I would take Rudi over Choice and Julius.

IMO, Felix could be better than all of the above if he can stay healthy.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Based off projections?

So if you had to win a game tomorrow, you'd take Schaub over Palmer?

I'd take Schaub over Joe Montana.

[IronMexican]

When his mind was right...I would take Rudi over Choice and Julius.

IMO, Felix could be better than all of the above if he can stay healthy.

Keep in mind that Romo also had at least 2 of these players at once all the time.

[samikeyp]

It doesn't hurt if you team is stacked with pro bowlers.

No but other teams have had success like that yet don't get called out for it.

It's all good though. That's football.



Personally, I love talking about it again and cannot wait for the season to start.

[samikeyp]

Keep in mind that Romo also had at least 2 of these players at once all the time.

he never had Choice or Felix with Julius. He left before they got there.

[IronMexican]

he never had Choice or Felix with Julius. He left before they got there.

I meant Barber, Jones, Choice and Jones. He has always had at least 2 of these players.

[samikeyp]

I meant Barber, Jones, Choice and Jones. He has always had at least 2 of these players.

I know...I was fucking with you. :)

I will ask this though. You don't like Dallas or Romo, which is cool. I am not going to go all Spursfan9021Ho on you and whine about you not liking my team. However, if Romo has a good year this year, will you acknowledge it or will you be like Pandaspur, JGW, Ducks and others who if Romo threw for 5000 yds, 40tds, 2 ints, won league MVP and the Super Bowl while going 19-0, then cured cancer, aids and world hunger, would point out the 2 ints? :)

[Dr. Gonzo]

It depends on whether the 2 ints were in December, which I'm sure they would be.

[dirk4mvp]

I know...I was fucking with you. :)

I will ask this though. You don't like Dallas or Romo, which is cool. I am not going to go all Spursfan9021Ho on you and whine about you not liking my team. However, if Romo has a good year this year, will you acknowledge it or will you be like Pandaspur, JGW, Ducks and others who if Romo threw for 5000 yds, 40tds, 2 ints, won league MVP and the Super Bowl while going 19-0, then cured cancer, aids and world hunger, would point out the 2 ints? :)

Tim Tebow's already done these things. Color me unimpressed if Romo does it.

[IronMexican]

I know...I was fucking with you. :)

I will ask this though. You don't like Dallas or Romo, which is cool. I am not going to go all Spursfan9021Ho on you and whine about you not liking my team. However, if Romo has a good year this year, will you acknowledge it or will you be like Pandaspur, JGW, Ducks and others who if Romo threw for 5000 yds, 40tds, 2 ints, won league MVP and the Super Bowl while going 19-0, then cured cancer, aids and world hunger, would point out the 2 ints? :)

I don't hate Romo. I achknowledge greatness. You think I like admitting Brady is one of the best QB's of all time? I bust balls a lot, but I wont dog a player to dog him.

[samikeyp]

Dammit!! I knew someone would throw the Tebow card! :madrun

[samikeyp]

I don't hate Romo. I achknowledge greatness. You think I like admitting Brady is one of the best QB's of all time? I bust balls a lot, but I wont dog a player to dog him.

:toast

Two things I know we can agree on though..the Dodgers and Fuck Notre Dame.

[PaulGreco]

Based off projections?

So if you had to win a game tomorrow, you'd take Schaub over Palmer?

OK, so one of the things I do is projections for Football for the season and each week for Fantasy Football players at FantasyPros911.com (http://www.FantasyPros911.com).

So the projections above are based on the following

Current roster of players (weapons around him)
Strength of Schedule
Prior year(s) stats
Defense vs. offense matchup (i.e. How a player performed on turf vs. grass, against 4-3 or 3-4 D, and matchups -- for WR who they are going up against on the other side of the ball)
Age of the player (i.e. stats show a huge drop off for RB's 30+)
So after figure in all that into the formula, stats are produced.

Now, based on your question of Schaub or Palmer, you can't just look at the individual player, you have to look at the whole picture. I think the Texans D is better than Cincy's. I think the Texan's WR's and RB's are better than Cincy. So, if they were playing each other, I think as a whole I would go with Schaub -- based on the fact he has better weapons around him.

Now, if it were a skills competition, I would go with Palmer because I think he DOES have more skills than Schaub. That being said, if your question was more indepth and it was, "If you could be choose either Schaub or Palmer on (Whatever team you choose), who would you rather have at QB?" which is where I think you going, again this would be a skills competition and I would say Palmer.

Kind of a round about way to answer your question, but hopefully it was what you were looking for.

--PG

[samikeyp]

I would take Palmer. Schaub would trip on his way to the field and pull a hammy.

[benefactor]

I would take Palmer. Schaub would trip on his way to the field and pull a hammy.
Sadly, this is true. :depressed

[Dr. Gonzo]

The only reason Schaub missed games last season is because of 2 cheap shots he took.

[samikeyp]

Schaub would be invincible wearing this.

http://www.shopzeus.com/product_images/zeusd1-CADI-60107.jpg

[DBryant88]

The only reason Schaub missed games last season is because of 2 cheap shots he took.

what are they going to do this season without rosenfels?

[Dr. Gonzo]

what are they going to do this season without rosenfels?

I think Schaub will play all 16 games. He has bulked up some and the O-line will be a lot better this season. The entire line played all 16 games together last season and this is their second year in the ZBS so that experience will do wonders. If he does go down, Dan Orvlowsky has had a great camp and has the tools to be a decent backup. But if he doesn't work out they still have Rex Grossman as their 3rd QB. Though they aren't as good as Schaub, they will have decent enough depth at QB if something does happen to Schaub.