name 25 big men defensively better than Dirk

[nkdlunch]

I'll start

Tim Duncan

[dirk4mvp]

Oh starting a thread all by yourself with another spur fan holding your hand? I'm impressed.

[hater]

:lol

Kevin Garnett

Nene

Rasheed Wallace

[Stump]

Dwight Howard

Marcus Camby

[hater]

Antonio McDyess

[dirk4mvp]

Antonio McDyess

When's the last time he played defense?

[hater]

When's the last time he played defense?

last year. for the Pistons

[dirk4mvp]

He's on my team now! I'll make something up.

[BUMP]

:lol McDyess this thread fails after only 5 posts. Nice work! :tu

[washingtonwizard]

Shaq
Chris Bosh
Josh Smith
Paul Millsap
Michael Beasley
Pau Gasol
Emeka Okafor
Chris Kaman
Tyson Chandler
Andrew Bynum
Birdman

[dirk4mvp]

Chris Bosh

Michael Beasley
Pau Gasol



:lol :lol :lol

Way to go. Chris Bosh is slightly above Al Jefferson on the worst bigman defenders list.

[washingtonwizard]

IMHO still slightly better than Dirk.

[BUMP]

Wouldn't really expect a wizard fan to know that much about defense or basketball in general for that matter

[in2deep]

Marcin Gortat

[washingtonwizard]

Wouldn't really expect a wizard fan to know that much about defense or basketball in general for that matter

just my honest opinion. sorry if it upset you :toast

[Findog]

If you guys are interested in a non-homer discussion on Dirk's defense, then start here:

http://dallasbasketballdotcom.yuku.com/topic/30045?page=3

[rAm]

Fabricio Oberto

[PBEEZY]

joel przybilla

[DAF86]

:lol McDyess this thread fails after only 5 posts. Nice work! :tu

We need the help of some Pistons fans in here.




-Theo Ratliff

[Spurs_210]

What's with all the Dirk threads?

[PBEEZY]

What's with all the Dirk threads?

Dirk Appreciation day.....or if your a spurs fan un..appreciation day

[nkdlunch]

Lamar Odom

[Phillip]

because of morons like nkdlunch getting owned and trying to do what he can to lessen the pain of having logic rammed up his ass so many times

[eisfeld]

Roy Hibbert... just to name one.

Dirk's defense is not good, he's a bad man to man defender and a mediocre help defender. Still he's not among the worst defenders among bigs. He's not as bad bad as Amare... at least he's willing to play defense.

[Spurs_210]

Dirk really isn't that bad on defensive end. He stuggles in the post but he's more a scorer than anything.

[rAm]

because of morons like nkdlunch getting owned and trying to do what he can to lessen the pain of having logic rammed up his ass so many times

says the guy with the retarded cartoon character in his sig

[Findog]

I'm just gonna post some of the relevent excerpts from that thread on dallasbasketball, with Mav fans dissing his D and praising it:



Scouting report: Nowitzki has improved greatly as a defender in recent seasons and is now capable of playing quality post defense or stepping out on the perimeter to help against the pick-and-roll. His lateral movement remains suspect and gets him in trouble against quick forwards at times, but he has a nice strip move he uses on opposing post players, he's an excellent defensive rebounder (12th at his position in defensive rebound rate), and he blocked shots at an above-average rate for a power forward.

[Findog]

Anti Dirk:


You guys may throw any stat out there I have watched Dirk since he was a rookie, and there is no doubt in my mind he is one of the worst defensive players, how many times has Dirk come from a weakside to block a shot, he doesnt like to bang in the paint, most of the PF and C's just back him down without any resistance, and I hate that little strip he does when a big is going up, stand up for your f..... ground and try to block a shot or two your 7ft for gods sakes, it seems sometimes he gets lost on defense and when a small guard is driving again he does his little strip while clearly if he made an attempt to atleast alter the shot it would be a much better strategy, he is just soo damn good offensively that even if his D sucked he makes up for it by being a offensive wonder.

[Findog]

Pro Dirk


A top scorer in this league cannot afford to be in foul trouble, so Dirk has to pick his spots in contesting shots. He is currently the best in the league at swiping the ball before the offensive player can shot it--a technique started by Bill Laimbeer, and utilized consistently by Karl Malone. There is nothing wrong with stopping the shot down low, excpet it doesn't make the highlight reel as a normal shot block.

Dirk is a much better help defender than Damp, and he is often covering for Damp who is often too slow and out of position to help. Dirk will not try to black a shot in this situation unless it is late in the game, or he chooses to swipe the ball low, because he cannot afford foul trouble if this team hopes to win. I don't understand how that is so hard for some of you to realize. Do you want him to consistently contest shots and play 26 minutes per game? That makes no sense. In addition, he came into this league as an above average leaper for a 7-footer, but has lost some of his leaping skills, so he is more effective at swiping at the ball than trying to block it up high.

The player Dirk guards almost never is the reason the Mavs lose a game. Dirk does not have the defensive natural abilities to lock down players, but does well with his talent, and the team's situation.

Sometimes I feel that some of you refuse to grant him any defensive ability unless he becomes a defensive stopper, which won't happen, but it doesn't mean his defense hurts the team. As John Hollinger's assessment states, Dirk's defesne is underrated, especially on this board.

[rAm]

A top scorer in this league cannot afford to be in foul trouble, so Dirk has to pick his spots in contesting shots. He is currently the best in the league at swiping the ball before the offensive player can shot it--a technique started by Bill Laimbeer, and utilized consistently by Karl Malone. There is nothing wrong with stopping the shot down low, excpet it doesn't make the highlight reel as a normal shot block.

hahahahahaha

[Findog]

Somewhat neutral on Dirk:


The knock against Dirk isn't that he can't play man defense. He does a passable job of staying in front of guys, and making them work for their baskets. You don't see him getting blown by and dunked on too often.

He does not guard the best offensive big unless they Mavs have gone small late in games. He won't match up against Duncan/Amare/Brand/Randolph/Jefferson. He'll guard Gasol on occasion, but normally Damp handles him as well.

The critique against Dirk's defense is that he does a poor job rotating to guard perimeter players. Bigs in the league these days have to be able to hedge on the pick and roll, but still get back to their man defensively, and Dirk doesn't do a good job of pressuring the ball handler on the dribble or pass. He's possibly average defending the basket when the Mavs let him play the middle of the zone, but in man to man sets he rarely comes over to block shots or draw charges.

All of these things may or may not be important for your best player/scorer to do during a game, but you have to be an awfully good jump shooter to make up for giving up an open dunk or two a game.

[Findog]

hahahahahaha

That guy watches a lot more of Dirk than you do. You only get to watch him 4 times a year when we beat your asses down.

[gaKNOW!blee]

That guy watches a lot more of Dirk than you do. You only get to watch him 4 times a year when we beat your asses down.

:lol Dirk

0 :lobt:

[Findog]

I think it's fair to say Dirk is a decent post defender, and I mean that sincerely. I think if he's asked to defend a back-to-the-basket type player 1 on 1 he does as good a job as you would ask a non-defensive specialist to do by himself. It's mostly when he is forced to switch onto a guard on a PnR that his lack of lateral mobility gets exposed badly, which is not out of the ordinary for a 7 footer.

Dirk is certainly a better defender than he was early in his career. That's not even debatable.

[jacobdrj]

McDyess' defense>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dirk...
Even
Jason Maxiell's defense>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dirk.
Hell,
Anderson Verijao's defense>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Dirk

[Findog]

Anti Dirk:


My main problem with Dirk's defense is his team defense. He's a horrible weakside help defender, largely due to lack of effort. It's probably up in the hundreds the number of times I've seen Dirk standing by watching while a teammate gets burned by a backcut.

He's not bad when he puts in the effort though.

[rAm]

wait wait wait wait


He is currently the best in the league at swiping the ball before the offensive player can shot it

hahahahahahaha

[Findog]

Somewhat neutral on Dirk:


In watching dirk defend I would like to see him contest the ball a little bit more. I do NOT however think you will see a lot of it until they get enough scorers around him. Bigs in this league get screwed when it comes to blocking shots, that's why folks want a guy who's job is ONLY to block shots and suck up fouls.

Damp gets called a bunch for bogus calls. If dirk challenged the ball he'd probably average almost 2 more personal fouls per game. That would limit his offensive aggressiveness also imo.

But he doesn't have the hops to be a very good shot blocker, but he's smart, battles and when the game is on the line, he definitely steps it up, he just doesn't like cheap ones early.

[z0sa]

Dirk is always in the right position, which is why he snares so many rebounds. Don't expect him to stop anybody capable 1on1 down low or get any gamesaving blocks against elite players, but he's not going to blow assignments or give up open looks.

[Findog]

wait wait wait wait



hahahahahahaha


Do you have anything to add that is insightful or useful? I'm posting several takes on Dirk's defense, good and bad and neutral, from people that watch him 82 times a year. How many Mav games do you watch? The 3 or 4 times a year when we stomp that silver and black ass?

[Findog]

Dirk is always in the right position, which is why he snares so many rebounds. Don't expect him to stop anybody capable 1on1 down low or get any gamesaving blocks against elite players, but he's not going to blow assignments or give up open looks.

Finally a Spur fan chimes in with a reasonable take. :tu

[cheguevara]

Tyson Chandler

[rAm]

Do you have anything to add that is insightful or useful? I'm posting several takes on Dirk's defense, good and bad and neutral, from people that watch him 82 times a year. How many Mav games do you watch? The 3 or 4 times a year when we stomp that silver and black ass?

you already said that.

be careful who you are calling black mother fucker

[jacobdrj]

Finally a Spur fan chimes in with a reasonable take. :tu

I will also agree with this take.

[Findog]

you already said that.

be careful who you are calling black mother fucker

silver and black is not the official color scheme of the San Antonio Spurs?

[ambchang]

Rasho Nesterovic

[BadOdor]

you already said that.

be careful who you are calling black mother fucker

You are pretty damn dumb.

[cheguevara]

kendrik perkins

[rAm]

You are pretty damn dumb.

Coming from a guy with 100 posts, is pinked, and says phrases such as "pretty damn dumb"

[BadOdor]

Coming from a guy with 100 posts, is pinked, and says phrases such as "pretty damn dumb"

you still mad ram-up the ass?:lol

[nkdlunch]

let's see what we got:
1. Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Dwight Howard
4. kendrik perkins
5. Nene
6. Marcus Camby
7. Rasheed Wallace
8. Marcin Gortat
9. Birdman
10 Anderson Varejao
11. Paul Millsap
12. Antonio McDyess
13. Shaq
14. Josh Smith
15. Chris Kaman
16. Tyson Chandler
17. Andrew Bynum
18. Rasho Nesterovic
19. joel przybilla
20. Lamar Odom
21. Chris Bosh
22. Michael Beasley
23. Pau Gasol
24. Emeka Okafor
25. Jason Maxiell

[rAm]

Don't forget Fabricio Oberto!

he's got a ring that Dirk doesn't have as well

[BlackBellamy]

Eddie Curry

[nkdlunch]

Don't forget Fabricio Oberto

come on dude. Fab is not CLEARLY better defensively than Dirk.

[rAm]

my bad

[Findog]

Eddie Curry

Amare Stoudemire

[BlackBellamy]

Amare Stoudemire

Ouch! Jesus man, I wasn't gonna go to that extreme. I'm sorry if this is how these types of threads make Mavs fans feel. Truly, apologies all around.

[bdictjames]

Chris Andersen
Kenyon Martin
Brendan Haywood

[DJB]

Kurt Thomas

[rAm]

Deveon George

[mavs>spurs2]

let's see what we got:

21. Chris Bosh
22. Michael Beasley
23. Pau Gasol

:lmao

[Muser]

Blair







:lol

[Hooks]

Kurt Thomas


Dejuan Blair

[LnGrrrR]

Did someone mention Oden yet? Chandler? :lol

I don't think Okafor has been mentioned yet either.

[23LeBronJames23]

every body in NBA.
then Dirk

[rAm]

lol

[dirk4mvp]

every body in NBA.
then Dirk

Do you plan on being a Knick or Clipper fan next year?

[DAF86]

Mark Madsen.

[rAm]

DAF, what's with that last chick in your sig. The look on her face ruins anything sexy about that picture.

[Double-Up]

Chuck Hayes

[BadOdor]

Mbenga.

[DAF86]

DAF, what's with that last chick in your sig. The look on her face ruins anything sexy about that picture.

I don't know I haven't looked at her face yet.

[rayray2k8]

This is too easy, you could have said 50 and we would have came up with a list. :lol

[spursfaninla]

I'm not sure if we Spurs fans are being fair to dirk here...he might be getting unfairly judged by the lack of D that his team has historically (last 5 years) had...

Plus, some on this list have been questioned (bosh)...

dirk is a good defensive rebounder, and is not a weak post defender. But this much is clearly true: Dallas was not having a mediocre center guard duncan just because they were afraid of Dirk getting fouls: even when dirk did not have many fouls, he would not guard duncan at the end of games. That says something to me.

[Rogue]

every body in NBA.
then Dirk
There will be far more that 25 big guys being listed as better defenders than Dirk when idiots are permitted to cast their votes, then it comes to the conclusion that Dirk is defensively weaker than anyone in NBA, though it won't get a crap from the fans who have more or less knowledge about the league.

[Dr Cox]

Wouldn't really expect a wizard fan to know that much about defense or basketball in general for that matter


so if you like th wizards you dont know about defense or basketball in general?



good one



dumbass




cox out

[Bob Lanier]

let's see what we got:
1. Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Dwight Howard
4. kendrik perkins
5. Nene
6. Marcus Camby
7. Rasheed Wallace
8. Marcin Gortat
9. Birdman
10 Anderson Varejao
11. Paul Millsap
12. Antonio McDyess
13. Shaq
14. Josh Smith
15. Chris Kaman
16. Tyson Chandler
17. Andrew Bynum
18. Rasho Nesterovic
19. joel przybilla
20. Lamar Odom
21. Chris Bosh
22. Michael Beasley :lmao
23. Pau Gasol
24. Emeka Okafor
25. Jason Maxiell
No to the bolded.

I'd add Brendan Haywood, Joakim Noah, Jeff Foster, Reggie Evans, and Elton Brand to partially replace them.

And right at this moment I'd say Duncan, Garnett, Howard, Perkins, Gasol, Okafor, and Haywood are definitely better than he is, not just arguably.

[Amarelooms]

Fail...what a bunch of dummy Spurs fans. Gonna love watching you fools cry again if they face the Mavs in the playoffs :elephant

[BlackBellamy]

Fail...what a bunch of dummy Spurs fans. Gonna love watching you fools cry again if they face the Mavs in the playoffs :elephant

You mad?

[IronMexican]

I lol at anyone who put Micheal Beasley. That guy puts a frontline of Al Jefferson and Amare Stoudamire to shame.

[Warlord23]

Erick Dampier
Desagana Diop
Brandon Bass
Ryan Hollins

[dirk4mvp]

Erick Dampier
Desagana Diop
Brandon Bass
Ryan Hollins


Only in the process of owning Duncan.

[Dice]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DWjQFaZ_AI

Here's Dice showing some D on a familiar face.

[Ditty]

menke bateer

[ulosturedge]

"Big Baby"

[Warlord23]

So I think we have a consensus here ... with 50+ names surfacing in this thread, it is established beyond doubt that Dirk is a defensive liability and will never win a ring unless he joins the Spurs

[spursfan1000]

Why do Mavs fans get too offensive, it's not like they are Dirk Nowitzki.

[Bob Lanier]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DWjQFaZ_AI

Here's Dice showing some D on a familiar face.
Dice was a lousy defender in Detroit from 2005-06 on.

[spursfan1000]

Dice was a lousy defender in Detroit from 2005-06 on.


I guess that will change when he comes to SA.

[KSeal]

Kwame Brown, no joke.

[Kriz-Maxima]

kwame brown, no joke.

+1

[Rogue]

Dirk is obscenely spoiled by us Mavs fans, actually you can list over 250 names who are considered better defensively than Dirk, even including those that have never achieved a birth for NBA league. Here we go, Ntikoudis, Bourousis, Khryapa, Siskauskas, etc...

[cobbler]

Wilt.

Yes he's dead... still better.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Too lazy to read the whole tread but I will add Darko and Kwame Brown to the list.

[Rogue]

Wilt.

Yes he's dead... still better.
Even Patrick Ewing's grandson is better than Dirk, though he hasn't been born yet.

[BlackBellamy]

It seems that alot of German people just naturally are better at creating offense than defending. Germany in the 20th century is a testament to such. It's not Dirk's fault on D, it's the sauerkraut in his blood.

[Culburn369]

It seems that alot of German people just naturally are better at creating offense than defending. Germany in the 20th century is a testament to such. It's not Dirk's fault on D, it's the sauerkraut in his blood.

Please.

The German soldier has never been equaled...either side of the equation.

[BlackBellamy]

Please.

The German soldier has never been equaled...either side of the equation.

Hey, no knock to the Germans. But the losses in two world wars and then this whole Dirk debacle? The evidence is incontrovertible towards their people's general "Lack of D", as I believe a certain Sir Winston Churchill put it.

[rAm]

Wilt.

Yes he's dead... still better.

:lol

[j-money24]

Shaq
Chris Bosh
Josh Smith
Paul Millsap
Michael Beasley
Pau Gasol
Emeka Okafor
Chris Kaman
Tyson Chandler
Andrew Bynum
Birdman


Dude Bynum can't play defense without fouling.

[in2deep]

:lmao

[Dr Cox]

Fail...what a bunch of dummy Spurs fans. Gonna love watching you fools cry again if they face the Mavs in the playoffs :elephant


nice elephant...so have you cryed all the times your team has lost to the spurs?

[Culburn369]

:lol

rAm, do you have the rest of that photo of the girl with the slight overbite? If so, can you kindly lodge it.

[RamReddy]

TIM DUNCAN
:flag::flag::flag::flag::flag::flag::flag:

[JustBlaze]

yxC2WVwPZg0
Nice defense Dirk.:lol

[dirk4mvp]

Has anyone on the Nuggets killed anybody this offseason? Boring offseason in Denver :sleep

[JustBlaze]

Has anyone on the Nuggets killed anybody this offseason? Boring offseason in Denver :sleep
Aside from every mavs fans hopes and dreams of winning a championship this year, nope.

[23LeBronJames23]

Has anyone on the Nuggets killed anybody this offseason? Boring offseason in Denver :sleep

seattle sonics beat nuggets 152-149 i think

[JustBlaze]

seattle sonics beat nuggets 152-149 i think
Oh yeah I remember that except you're about 2 years too late. Hell AI was on that team. Anyways back to that game, when Durant hit that long ass gamewinning three in double OT and seeing his reaction...god what I wanted to do to that twiggy bastard.:ihit:bang:bang Great game tho.

[RonMexico]

Zach Randolph, Andrew Bogut, Andrea Bargnani, Amare

[dirk4mvp]

Zach Randolph, Andrew Bogut, Andrea Bargnani, Amare

Have fun watching the Thunder pass you in the West this year.

[Findog]

Has anyone on the Nuggets killed anybody this offseason? Boring offseason in Denver :sleep

Have any Nuggets renounced their membership in the Crips street gang?

[RonMexico]

Have fun watching the Thunder pass you in the West this year.

I'm taking a sports sabbatical this year, I believe. Hopefully, we can field the first team to average over 125 and give up over 120 per game.

[spursncowboys]

the girl from Karate Kid 4.

[spursncowboys]

Has anyone on the Nuggets killed anybody this offseason? Boring offseason in Denver :sleep

If Dallas held a drug test, there wouldn't be a team...or an owner. But yeah the Nuggets are a bunch of thugs, just don't tell their moms.

[Dunc n Dave]

I'll take a crack at this:

DEFINITELY BETTER THAN _IRK: (in no particular order)
1. Duncan
2. Ming
3. Camby
4. Okafor
5. Chandler
6. DHoward
7. Rasheed Wallace
8. Dalembert
9. Biedrins
10.Bogut
11.Shaq
12. Kaman
13. Milicic
14. Nene
15. Ilgauskas
16. Garnett
17. Josh Smith
18. Al Horford
19. Kirilenko
20. David Lee
21. Greg Oden
22. Kendrick Perkins
23. Jermaine O'Neal
24. Elton Brand
25. Gasol
26. Aldridge
27. Kenyon Martin (Dirk is scared of him)
---------------------------------------

Arguably better than Dirk:
McDyess
Bosh
Brook Lopez
Bynum
Jefferson
A. Jamison
Al Harrington
Milsap
Noah

[D-ROB 50]

No Lamarcus Aldridge

[dirk4mvp]

27. Kenyon Martin (Dirk is scared of him)


Thanks for telling us you didn't watch that series. Care to look Dirk's numbers up for that series?

[Dunc n Dave]

Thanks for telling us you didn't watch that series. Care to look Dirk's numbers up for that series?

I did watch the series, and Dirk got called out by the media for his comments about Kenyon and Birdman "making it tough on him" defensively. TNT crew were all saying Dirk sounded scared and was giving those guys too much respect. Barkley and the Jet both said they would have never admitted anyone could stop them or hold them down, like Dirk admitted to. Like it or not, that's what was said about Dirk. He was scared...

[Findog]

I did watch the series, and Dirk got called out by the media for his comments about Kenyon and Birdman "making it tough on him" defensively. TNT crew were all saying Dirk sounded scared and was giving those guys too much respect. Barkley and the Jet both said they would have never admitted anyone could stop them or hold them down, like Dirk admitted to. Like it or not, that's what was said about Dirk. He was scared...

So if you watched that series, you saw him destroy anybody George Karl put on him, right? And Barkley and Smith were both idiots taking press conference boiler plate out of context and running with it, you realize that right? If that's how Dirk plays when he's scared, then I want him downright terrified and frightened out there.

Fucking idiot.

[YellowFever]

Ummmm..I don't want to start a flame war with Dallas fans (which judging by this thread...can get awfully nasty) but the better (and shorter answered) question would be who ISN'T as good defensivly as Dirk.

[Dunc n Dave]

So if you watched that series, you saw him destroy anybody George Karl put on him, right? And Barkley and Smith were both idiots taking press conference boiler plate out of context and running with it, you realize that right? If that's how Dirk plays when he's scared, then I want him downright terrified and frightened out there.

Fucking idiot.

Dirk's the one who admitted to his fear. Don't take it out on me, take it up with him. Ask Dirk why he would even admit such a thing and show weakness like that. Fact is TNT crew agreed he shouldn't have said that, and doing so made him sound like he was afraid of them.

Yeah, Dirk played well the rest of the series, but not enough to win it. Kneyon Martin is a better defender than Dirk.. PERIOD. You don't have to like it...

[dirk4mvp]

Dirk's the one who admitted to his fear.


Don't take it out on me, take it up with him. Ask Dirk why he would even admit such a thing and show weakness like that. Fact is TNT crew agreed he shouldn't have said that, and doing so made him sound like he was afraid of them.

How'd admitting his fear work out for him? He took a gigantic shit on all 4 guys Karl put on him after giving them props. It's not like he was held to 12 points/gm and then said they gave him trouble. Your point is moot. Who besides you criticized Dirk for his comments after seeing what he did in that series?




Yeah, Dirk played well the rest of the series, but not enough to win it.

Denver was a better team. I can live with that.

Dirk was however the best player in that series, bar none.



Kneyon Martin is a better defender than Dirk.. PERIOD. You don't have to like it...

Similar to the other thread when you said Bowen would've held Wade after you said replacing Dirk with Duncan on Dallas in 06 would've guaranteed a 5 game series win, you don't know what you're talking about and are obviously lost. Stick to arguing with Culburn.

[Findog]

Dirk's the one who admitted to his fear.

No, he didn't. His exact remarks were something along the lines of "Those guys make it tough for me." "Those guys" being guys he was lighting up for 35/12/4. He was answering a question and being polite.


Don't take it out on me, take it up with him.

You are speaking out of ignorance. I am correcting you.


Ask Dirk why he would even admit such a thing and show weakness like that.

He never said he was afraid of Kenyon Martin or the Birdman. Find the exact quote. It was actually boilerplate like "The Birdman's length can be tough to deal with it, and Kenyon is an aggressive defender blah blah blah..."



Fact is TNT crew agreed he shouldn't have said that, and doing so made him sound like he was afraid of them.


Fact is Barkley and Smith do schtick. They took a molehill and blew it up into the Himalayas.



Yeah, Dirk played well the rest of the series, but not enough to win it.

Nuggets were much better than the Mavs.


Kneyon Martin is a better defender than Dirk.. PERIOD.

Dirk Nowitzki averaged 35 points, 12 rebounds and 4 assists per game with Kenyon Martin guarding him. Yeah, he was real scuuuured alright.

[Dunc n Dave]

No, he didn't. His exact remarks were something along the lines of "Those guys make it tough for me." "Those guys" being guys he was lighting up for 35/12/4. He was answering a question and being polite.

.

You are speaking out of ignorance. I am correcting you.



He never said he was afraid of Kenyon Martin or the Birdman. Find the exact quote. It was actually boilerplate like "The Birdman's length can be tough to deal with it, and Kenyon is an aggressive defender blah blah blah..."



Fact is Barkley and Smith do schtick. They took a molehill and blew it up into the Himalayas.



Nuggets were much better than the Mavs.



Dirk Nowitzki averaged 35 points, 12 rebounds and 4 assists per game with Kenyon Martin guarding him. Yeah, he was real scuuuured alright.

“I think Birdman does a good job because he’s so long. He contests my shot. Martin and Nene are stronger and they try to body me more and Birdman’s just long and when I shoot he can still jump up there and contest the shot. So, yeah, they’ve got three very good defenders.”

-Dirk Nowitzki

Barkley, Kenny Smith, and Webber all jumped on him. Kenny even using the word "soft." They felt he should not have said these things and Webber said "Dirk is scared of a defender?"

You can say all you want about the 3 to discredit them, but they are former NBA players, so they more about the game than you or me.

Stating what someone else said is not "speaking out of ignorance," just because you disagree with their opinion. Like I said, don't take it out on me.



Back on topic: I named 27 big men, Kenyon Martin included, who currently are better defenders that Dirk. And there are several more that are arguably better. If we look at all time big men, we could easily jump that number to 75-100, but we'll save that for another thread at another time.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

“I think Birdman does a good job because he’s so long. He contests my shot. Martin and Nene are stronger and they try to body me more and Birdman’s just long and when I shoot he can still jump up there and contest the shot. So, yeah, they’ve got three very good defenders.”

-Dirk Nowitzki

Barkley, Kenny Smith, and Webber all jumped on him. Kenny even using the word "soft." They felt he should not have said these things and Webber said "Dirk is scared of a defender?"

You can say all you want about the 3 to discredit them, but they are former NBA players, so they more about the game than you or me.
Sounds like Dirk is just giving credit to the Nuggets defense. Since when is showing respect showing weakness? And since when the hell did the TNT crew become the voice of reason?

[Findog]

“I think Birdman does a good job because he’s so long. He contests my shot. Martin and Nene are stronger and they try to body me more and Birdman’s just long and when I shoot he can still jump up there and contest the shot. So, yeah, they’ve got three very good defenders.”

-Dirk Nowitzki

I don't see anywhere in there where he says he is "scared" of them, he "fears" them, or gives them credit for being able to stop him. Keep in mind, he is talking about guys that he bukakked all over for 35/12/4.



Barkley, Kenny Smith, and Webber all jumped on him.

So? Why should I care what they think? They're doing schtick.


Kenny even using the word "soft."

So? Is Kenny Smith God? Do you wait until he weighs in before you can form an opinion on basketball? Can you think for yourself?


They felt he should not have said these things

Once again, I want to know why I should care what they think.


and Webber said "Dirk is scared of a defender?"

I guess Webber would be a good authority on being scared on a basketball court.



You can say all you want about the 3 to discredit them, but they are former NBA players, so they more about the game than you or me.

Fire Joe Morgan!


Stating what someone else said is not "speaking out of ignorance," just because you disagree with their opinion. Like I said, don't take it out on me.

You said that Dirk was scared and played with fear in the Denver series, based on some harmless boilerplate comments he made to a reporter's question. Not only did Dirk's quote not substantiate your contention, but he averaged 35/12/4. He did not play scared, he did not show fear, and at no point did he express frustation and concede they had stopped him.




Back on topic: I named 27 big men, Kenyon Martin included, who currently are better defenders that Dirk.

You're right, Kenyon Martin is a great defender. He locked Dirk down to the tune of 35/12/4. Anytime you can shut down your man and hold him to 35/12/4, you know you've done your job. You're just not very good at this, are you?


And there are several more that are arguably better. If we look at all time big men, we could easily jump that number to 75-100, but we'll save that for another thread at another time.

Dirk is not a sieve defensively, and the man he is guarding is rarely if ever the reason the Mavs lose.

[Dunc n Dave]

You're right, Kenyon Martin is a great defender. He locked Dirk down to the tune of 35/12/4. Anytime you can shut down your man and hold him to 35/12/4, you know you've done your job. You're just not very good at this, are you?


Bowen has been lit up by Dirk on many occasions. That doesn't mean Bowen isn't a good defender. Same with Michael Cooper vs Larry Bird. Countless people vs. Jordan. Same for Kobe.

There are some guys you just aren;t gong to be able to keep from scoring and Dirk is one of them because of the matchup problems he presents with his size and range.
Put a taller defender on him? He goes by them or shoots the 15 foot fadeaway.
Put a smaller quicker guy on him? He shoots over the top of them.

No one is denying Dirks offensive proficiency. He is a superstar scorer. He just has never been known as even a "good" defender. But don't worry, he's not the only one dimensional superstar the NBA has ever had. He has company.

Dirk scoring 35 on Martin does not mean Martin can't guard anyone.

Kenyon is a better defensive bigman than Dirk.

[Findog]

Bowen has been lit up by Dirk on many occasions. That doesn't mean Bowen isn't a good defender. Same with Michael Cooper vs Larry Bird. Countless people vs. Jordan. Same for Kobe.

I don't see how Dirk would be scared of a guy that makes him look like a Hall of Famer. If I knew I was going to be "guarded" by a guy that was going to "hold" me to 35/12/4, I'd be licking my chops.




No one is denying Dirks offensive proficiency. He is a superstar scorer. He just has never been known as even a "good" defender. Dirk scoring 35 on Martin does not mean Martin can't guard anyone.

He has worked himself into something that approaches adequate. That's why he's a cut above guys like Bosh, Amare and Jefferson. I'd rather have Duncan because he can patrol and control the paint in a way that Dirk can't, but Dirk has become a more complete player than he was earlier in his career under Nellie.


Kenyon is a better defensive bigman than Dirk.

You can probably come up with 50 guys who are technically better interior defenders than Dirk, but I'll sure take a guy that is unguardable on offense and can be adequate within a team defensive scheme over a guy like Kenyon Martin. I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is to denigrate Dirk's D. Seems like "superstars" like Amare or Bosh deserve to be made fun of first for not being able to guard an empty gym.

Dirk has his flaws and is far from perfect, but he's still a top 10 player, whatever his issues on the defensive end. If he played "no defense" whatsoever, he'd be no better than Carlos Boozer or Chris Bosh.

[Rogue]

Bowen has been lit up by Dirk on many occasions. That doesn't mean Bowen isn't a good defender. Same with Michael Cooper vs Larry Bird. Countless people vs. Jordan. Same for Kobe.

There are some guys you just aren;t gong to be able to keep from scoring and Dirk is one of them because of the matchup problems he presents with his size and range.
Put a taller defender on him? He goes by them or shoots the 15 foot fadeaway.
Put a smaller quicker guy on him? He shoots over the top of them.

No one is denying Dirks offensive proficiency. He is a superstar scorer. He just has never been known as even a "good" defender. But don't worry, he's not the only one dimensional superstar the NBA has ever had. He has company.

Dirk scoring 35 on Martin does not mean Martin can't guard anyone.

Kenyon is a better defensive bigman than Dirk.
The best defense is just good offense. If some guy can make his opposing guard working his ass off defending him while still dropping 35/12/4 on him, you know it doesn't cost you any energy to tame him on the other end of floor. It's correct of you to say Dirk is an unstoppable player and gives matchup troubles to anyone guarding him, but it's obviously foolish logic to split a player like the court being divided into 2 by the logo.

[Findog]

If Dirk is so shitty at defense and Martin is so much better, how come Dirk put up 35/12/4 in that series while Martin managed 10/4/2? Since Martin is so much better at defense, shouldn't he have lit Dirk up? :rolleyes

[Dunc n Dave]

I don't see how Dirk would be scared of a guy that makes him look like a Hall of Famer. If I knew I was going to be "guarded" by a guy that was going to "hold" me to 35/12/4, I'd be licking my chops.





He has worked himself into something that approaches adequate. That's why he's a cut above guys like Bosh, Amare and Jefferson. I'd rather have Duncan because he can patrol and control the paint in a way that Dirk can't, but Dirk has become a more complete player than he was earlier in his career under Nellie.



You can probably come up with 50 guys who are technically better interior defenders than Dirk, but I'll sure take a guy that is unguardable on offense and can be adequate within a team defensive scheme over a guy like Kenyon Martin. I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is to denigrate Dirk's D. Seems like "superstars" like Amare or Bosh deserve to be made fun of first for not being able to guard an empty gym.

Dirk has his flaws and is far from perfect, but he's still a top 10 player, whatever his issues on the defensive end. If he played "no defense" whatsoever, he'd be no better than Carlos Boozer or Chris Bosh.

I agree Dirk is a better defender tham Amare and Al Jefferson, which is why I did not put them on my list, even as arguably better.

Bosh, though I disagree on. Bosh averaged more rebounds, steals, and blocks than Dirk last year and is a similar player in that he has a mid-range game, although Dirk's is way better. Bosh also averaged 2.8 offensive rebounds (Top 20, better than Duncan, Brand, Yao, Camby, Shaq) to Dirk's 1.1 (tied for #143, even Nate Robinson and Matt Bonner grabbed more).

That's not good for a 7 footer. Oh and we already make fun of Amare. Everyone knows he puts forth ZERO effort on defense.

[Dunc n Dave]

The best defense is just good offense. If some guy can make his opposing guard working his ass off defending him while still dropping 35/12/4 on him, you know it doesn't cost you any energy to tame him on the other end of floor.

That's what the early 90's Nuggets thought under Paul Westhead. The Phoenix Suns also believed that. Amare averaged 30+ vs the Spurs in 2005, but where did that get the Suns? Booted in 5 games...

Dirk averaged 30+ vs the Nuggets and got the same result.

Not that the Nuggets are a defense juggernaut, but DEFENSE wins championships. The last few champs have all been Top 5 defensive teams.

[Findog]

Dirk averaged 30+ vs the Nuggets and got the same result.



:lmao. The Nuggets were a much better team than the Mavs last year. Rick Carlisle teaches and emphasizes defense. That's like saying the Spurs don't place an emphasis on defense because the Mavs stomped them in the first round.

[Dunc n Dave]

:lmao. The Nuggets were a much better team than the Mavs last year. Rick Carlisle teaches and emphasizes defense. That's like saying the Spurs don't place an emphasis on defense because the Mavs stomped them in the first round.

You are quoting a response I made to Rogue. He said the best defense is a good offense. I thought you Mavs fans learned that wasn't true having Nellie as your coach for so many years of futility. Teams that take on the "to hell with defense, we're gonna outscore them" attitude never win when it counts, like the Suns under D'Antoni and the Mavs under Don Nelson.

The Spurs had no problem letting Amare average around 35ppg in their 2005 series, as long as it meant the Spurs winning the series. Amare had his moral victory of "OWNING" the Spurs, while the Spurs had their real victory with the Larry O'Brien Trophy.

The point: bragging about Dirk averaging 35pts in a series they lost 4-1 is the equivalent of Amare thinking he's the GOAT for averaging 35pts vs the Spurs... in a series he LOST 4-1. Dirk and Amare had their moral victories. Good for them....

[Dunc n Dave]

If Dirk is so shitty at defense and Martin is so much better, how come Dirk put up 35/12/4 in that series while Martin managed 10/4/2? Since Martin is so much better at defense, shouldn't he have lit Dirk up? :rolleyes

So lemme get this straight? You're saying if someone is better at defense they should light up the guy that's guarding them?

Damn.... I guess Bruce Bowen wasn't that great of a defender after all since he RARELY ever lit anyone up...:depressed

[j-money24]

Who are the idiots that are saying Gasol is a better defender. Come on people, be realistic.

[Findog]

The point: bragging about Dirk averaging 35pts in a series they lost 4-1 is the equivalent of Amare thinking he's the GOAT for averaging 35pts vs the Spurs... in a series he LOST 4-1. Dirk and Amare had their moral victories. Good for them....

I think we got on this tangent because you said Dirk was "scared" or Kenyon Martin. I don't think it's possible to be scared of a guy you curbstomp to the tune of 35/12/4. Nowhere did I say I was satisfied with the Mavs bowing out in the second round, or Dirk's performance was some form of consolation prize. The Mavs FO doesn't seem to be satisfied with an exit in the semis either, since they brought in Marion, Ross, Thomas and Gooden. Nice manuever to shift the goalposts to support your ever-shifting arguments.

[Findog]

So lemme get this straight? You're saying if someone is better at defense they should light up the guy that's guarding them?

Damn.... I guess Bruce Bowen wasn't that great of a defender after all since he RARELY ever lit anyone up...:depressed

So you're saying Kenyon Martin is as offensively challenged as Bruce Bowen? I mean, since Dirk is such a shitty defender, you would think a gifted two-way player like Kenyon Martin could do better than 10/4/2, especially with all the other gifted players and offensive threats that the Nuggets have, like Carmelo, JR Smith, Nene, Billups, etc.

[MavDynasty]

Findog is shitting on Dunc n Dave in this argument.

[Dunc n Dave]

I think we got on this tangent because you said Dirk was "scared" or Kenyon Martin. I don't think it's possible to be scared of a guy you curbstomp to the tune of 35/12/4. Nowhere did I say I was satisfied with the Mavs bowing out in the second round, or Dirk's performance was some form of consolation prize. The Mavs FO doesn't seem to be satisfied with an exit in the semis either, since they brought in Marion, Ross, Thomas and Gooden. Nice manuever to shift the goalposts to support your ever-shifting arguments.

I was just repeating what the TNT talking heads said about Dirk. Obviously he doesn't go to bed at night fearing Kenyon Martin will come in the room and butt rape him. So yeah, you're right, his performance in that series OFFENSIVELY says otherwise about him being scared.

And good for the Mavs for trying to improve their team, but if Carlisle has so much pull and makes defense his #1 priority why are the Mavs stacking up on offensive weapons (with the exception of Ross who is a good defender) when they already had more weapons than most? I know they tried for Gortat, but they settle on Thomas and Gooden and let Bass go?

But this thread is about naming 25 bigmen who are better DEFENSIVELY than Dirk, and Kenyon is one of those. WGAF about Kenyon's offensive ability vs Dirk? That's your tangent. I can't stand Kenyon Martin and his wanna-be thug attitude, but it still doesn't change the fact that he is a better defender than Dirk, along with Bosh. You can try to twist my words anyway you like, but it still won't make Dirk a better defender than Martin or Bosh.

[dirk4mvp]

lol Bosh

you're reaching.

[Findog]

I was just repeating what the TNT talking heads said about Dirk. Obviously he doesn't go to bed at night fearing Kenyon Martin will come in the room and butt rape him. So yeah, you're right, his performance in that series OFFENSIVELY says otherwise about him being scared.


Okay, so you finally conceded the TNT guys were full of shit and Dirk is not afraid of Kenyon Martin. We're getting somewhere.



And good for the Mavs for trying to improve their team, but if Carlisle has so much pull and makes defense his #1 priority why are the Mavs stacking up on offensive weapons (with the exception of Ross who is a good defender) when they already had more weapons than most? I know they tried for Gortat, but they settle on Thomas and Gooden and let Bass go?


Marion isn't a good defender? I don't think we're favorites...hell, we'll be lucky to get back to the second round with the new faces. In this league, if you're not getting better, you're getting worse. There is no standing still. They have to improve just to maintain what they did last year.



But this thread is about naming 25 bigmen who are better DEFENSIVELY than Dirk, and Kenyon is one of those. WGAF about Kenyon's offensive ability vs Dirk? That's your tangent. I can't stand Kenyon Martin and his wanna-be thug attitude, but it still doesn't change the fact that he is a better defender than Dirk, along with Bosh. You can try to twist my words anyway you like, but it still won't make Dirk a better defender than Martin or Bosh.

I don't disagree with any of that. Looks like we have nothing to debate anymore, since you conceded that the TNT guys were just doing schtick and Dirk isn't afraid of Kenyon Martin.

[Dunc n Dave]

So you're saying Kenyon Martin is as offensively challenged as Bruce Bowen? I mean, since Dirk is such a shitty defender, you would think a gifted two-way player like Kenyon Martin could do better than 10/4/2, especially with all the other gifted players and offensive threats that the Nuggets have, like Carmelo, JR Smith, Nene, Billups, etc.

Who said Kenyon was a gifted two way player? Definitely not me. There you go trying to twist my words to discredit me. And you talk about ME shifting the goalposts? Pot, meet kettle.

Martin needs others to create shots for him off alley oops or transition buckets. He is far from gifted offensively. Better than Bruce offensively? Without a doubt. All of the other Nuggets you mentioned are better offensively than Kenyon, so obviously Kenyon won't be lighting anyone up when he only averaged 7 shot attempts per game in the Dallas series. If you put Dirk on the weakest offensive threat on the floor you can't claim a defensive victory for holding him to 10 points. He scored 9.8 vs the Hornets and 12 vs the Lakers.


I also never said Dirk was a "shitty defender," but you Mavs fans hear what you want to hear. Amare is a shitty defender, but Dirk is not. I said he has never even been considered a good defender, let alone great. He is average, at best, for a big man on defense, which is why people have no trouble coming up with 25+ other bigmen who are better defenders. It's OK for Dirk to not be perfect. He's still unstoppable on the offensive end, be happy about that. Duncan still has FT's as a weakness, but Spurs fans accept it and move on.

[Dunc n Dave]

lol Bosh

you're reaching.

Compare the stats for the 2.

Bosh wins in Off Rebounds, total Rebounds, Steals, and blocks. Defensively: Bosh>Dirk

[Dunc n Dave]

Findog is shitting on Dunc n Dave in this argument.

:rolleyesSays the unbiased Mavs fan...

[dirk4mvp]

Compare the stats for the 2.

Bosh wins in Off Rebounds, total Rebounds, Steals, and blocks. Defensively: Bosh>Dirk

Those stats prove who is a better defender?

[Dunc n Dave]

Those stats prove who is a better defender?

They prove Bosh is a better shot blocker, plays the passing lanes better, rebounds better, and crashes the boards better. All are key components of beign a good defensive bigman.

Are there other factors? Sure, but they aren't measured, so we can debate those until the cows come home, but it won't change either of our opinions. The stats, however, don't lie. Bosh was Top 20 in offensive rebounds, Dirk was #140 getting out boarded by Matt Bonner and Nate Robinson on the offensive glass.

You can disagree with me, but the MEASURABLE stats favor my opinion on this one.

[resistanze]

Bosh isn't a terrible defender, but he's weak/soft as fuck. He just gets outmuscled in the post regularly. He'd be a better defender than Dirk and a lot of other guys if he ate a fucking burger.

[Rodriguez]

:rolleyesSays the unbiased Mavs fan...
You should have known it's not kind of praise when someone is said to be shitting on you. :wakeup

[history2b]

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Gasol, Pau (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=996)Los Angeles Lakers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/lal/los-angeles-lakers)
Gibson, Taj (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3986)Chicago Bulls (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/chi/chicago-bulls)USCGooden, Drew (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1711)Milwaukee Bucks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mil/milwaukee-bucks)KansasGreen, Jeff (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3209)Oklahoma City Thunder (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/okc/oklahoma-city-thunder)GeorgetownGriffin, Blake (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3989)Los Angeles Clippers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/lac/los-angeles-clippers)OklahomaHNAMETEAMCOLLEGEHansbrough, Tyler (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3991)Indiana Pacers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/ind/indiana-pacers)North CarolinaHarangody, Luke (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4276)Boston Celtics (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/bos/boston-celtics)Notre DameHarrington, Al (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=308)Denver Nuggets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/den/denver-nuggets)
Haslem, Udonis (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2184)Miami Heat (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mia/miami-heat)FloridaHayward, Lazar (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4277)Minnesota Timberwolves (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/min/minnesota-timberwolves)MarquetteHickson, J.J. (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3437)Cleveland Cavaliers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/cle/cleveland-cavaliers)North Carolina StateHill, Jordan (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3994)Houston Rockets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/hou/houston-rockets)ArizonaHobson, Darington (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4278)Milwaukee Bucks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mil/milwaukee-bucks)New MexicoHoward, Juwan (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=351)Miami Heat (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mia/miami-heat)MichiganHumphries, Kris (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2433)New Jersey Nets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/nj/new-jersey-nets)MinnesotaINAMETEAMCOLLEGEIbaka, Serge (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3439)Oklahoma City Thunder (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/okc/oklahoma-city-thunder)
Ilyasova, Ersan (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2767)Milwaukee Bucks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mil/milwaukee-bucks)
JNAMETEAMCOLLEGEJackson, Darnell (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3440)Sacramento Kings (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/sac/sacramento-kings)KansasJamison, Antawn (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=385)Cleveland Cavaliers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/cle/cleveland-cavaliers)North CarolinaJeffries, Jared (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1717)Houston Rockets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/hou/houston-rockets)IndianaJerebko, Jonas (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3998)Detroit Pistons (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/det/detroit-pistons)
Jianlian, Yi (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3214)Washington Wizards (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/wsh/washington-wizards)
Johnson, Amir (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2769)Toronto Raptors (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/tor/toronto-raptors)
LNAMETEAMCOLLEGELandry, Carl (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3217)Sacramento Kings (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/sac/sacramento-kings)PurdueLawal, Gani (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4281)Phoenix Suns (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/phx/phoenix-suns)Georgia TechLewis, Rashard (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=469)Orlando Magic (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/orl/orlando-magic)
Love, Kevin (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3449)Minnesota Timberwolves (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/min/minnesota-timberwolves)UCLAMNAMETEAMCOLLEGEMartin, Kenyon (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=515)Denver Nuggets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/den/denver-nuggets)CincinnatiMaxiell, Jason (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2775)Detroit Pistons (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/det/detroit-pistons)CincinnatiMcDyess, Antonio (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=530)San Antonio Spurs (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/sa/san-antonio-spurs)AlabamaMcRoberts, Josh (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3220)Indiana Pacers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/ind/indiana-pacers)DukeMillsap, Paul (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3015)Utah Jazz (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/utah/utah-jazz)Louisiana TechMonroe, Greg (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4260)Detroit Pistons (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/det/detroit-pistons)GeorgetownMurphy, Troy (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1013)New Jersey Nets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/nj/new-jersey-nets)Notre DameNNAMETEAMCOLLEGENajera, Eduardo (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=591)Charlotte Bobcats (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/cha/charlotte-bobcats)OklahomaNocioni, Andres (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2456)Philadelphia 76ers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/phi/philadelphia-76ers)

(http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=609)
(http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/dal/dallas-mavericks)
ONAMETEAMCOLLEGEOdom, Lamar (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=617)Los Angeles Lakers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/lal/los-angeles-lakers)Rhode IslandOrton, Daniel (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4263)Orlando Magic (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/orl/orlando-magic)KentuckyPNAMETEAMCOLLEGEPatterson, Patrick (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4264)Houston Rockets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/hou/houston-rockets)KentuckyPowe, Leon (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3023)Cleveland Cavaliers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/cle/cleveland-cavaliers)CaliforniaRNAMETEAMCOLLEGERandolph, Zach (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1017)Memphis Grizzlies (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mem/memphis-grizzlies)Michigan StateRandolph, Anthony (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3455)New York Knicks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks)LSUSNAMETEAMCOLLEGESamuels, Samardo (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4304)Cleveland Cavaliers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/cle/cleveland-cavaliers)LouisvilleSanders, Larry (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4265)Milwaukee Bucks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mil/milwaukee-bucks)Virginia CommonwealthScalabrine, Brian (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1021)Chicago Bulls (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/chi/chicago-bulls)USCScola, Luis (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1781)Houston Rockets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/hou/houston-rockets)
Seraphin, Kevin (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4289)Washington Wizards (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/wsh/washington-wizards)
Smith, Joe (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=788)New Jersey Nets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/nj/new-jersey-nets)MarylandSmith, Josh (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2411)Atlanta Hawks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/atl/atlanta-hawks)
Smith, Craig (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3031)Los Angeles Clippers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/lac/los-angeles-clippers)Boston CollegeSmith, Jason (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3232)New Orleans Hornets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/no/new-orleans-hornets)Colorado StateSongaila, Darius (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1784)Philadelphia 76ers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/phi/philadelphia-76ers)Wake ForestSplitter, Tiago (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3233)San Antonio Spurs (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/sa/san-antonio-spurs)
Stoudemire, Amare (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1727)New York Knicks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks)
Summers, DaJuan (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4012)Detroit Pistons (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/det/detroit-pistons)GeorgetownSy, Pape (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4290)Atlanta Hawks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/atl/atlanta-hawks)
TNAMETEAMCOLLEGEThomas, Tyrus (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3032)Charlotte Bobcats (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/cha/charlotte-bobcats)LSUUNAMETEAMCOLLEGEUdoh, Ekpe (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4261)Golden State Warriors (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/gs/golden-state-warriors)BaylorVNAMETEAMCOLLEGEVarejao, Anderson (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2419)Cleveland Cavaliers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/cle/cleveland-cavaliers)
Villanueva, Charlie (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2792)Detroit Pistons (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/det/detroit-pistons)ConnecticutWNAMETEAMCOLLEGEWarrick, Hakim (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2794)Phoenix Suns (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/phx/phoenix-suns)SyracuseWest, David (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2177)New Orleans Hornets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/no/new-orleans-hornets)XavierWhite, D.J. (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3469)Oklahoma City Thunder (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/okc/oklahoma-city-thunder)IndianaWhiteside, Hassan (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4262)Sacramento Kings (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/sac/sacramento-kings)MarshallWilcox, Chris (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1731)Detroit Pistons (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/det/detroit-pistons)MarylandWilliams, Jawad (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2850)Cleveland Cavaliers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/cle/cleveland-cavaliers)North CarolinaWilliams, Shelden (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3040)Denver Nuggets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/den/denver-nuggets)DukeWright, Brandan (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3242)Golden State Warriors (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/gs/golden-state-warriors)North CarolinaYNAMETEAMCOLLEGEYoung, Thaddeus (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3244)Philadelphia 76ers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/phi/philadelphia-76ers)Georgia Tech

[history2b]

NBA Players By Position - Centers

Search By: Last NamePositionCollege



ANAMETEAMCOLLEGEAjinca, Alexis (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3410)Dallas Mavericks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/dal/dallas-mavericks)
Alabi, Solomon (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4268)Toronto Raptors (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/tor/toronto-raptors)Florida StateAldrich, Cole (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4267)Oklahoma City Thunder (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/okc/oklahoma-city-thunder)KansasAmundson, Louis (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3041)Golden State Warriors (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/gs/golden-state-warriors)UNLVAndersen, Chris (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1135)Denver Nuggets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/den/denver-nuggets)Blinn CollegeAndersen, David (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4205)Toronto Raptors (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/tor/toronto-raptors)
Anthony, Joel (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3247)Miami Heat (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mia/miami-heat)UNLVArmstrong, Hilton (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2984)Washington Wizards (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/wsh/washington-wizards)ConnecticutAsik, Omer (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3414)Chicago Bulls (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/chi/chicago-bulls)
BNAMETEAMCOLLEGEBargnani, Andrea (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2987)Toronto Raptors (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/tor/toronto-raptors)
Battie, Tony (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=45)Philadelphia 76ers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/phi/philadelphia-76ers)Texas TechBiedrins, Andris (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2427)Golden State Warriors (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/gs/golden-state-warriors)
Bogut, Andrew (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2747)Milwaukee Bucks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mil/milwaukee-bucks)UtahBooker, Trevor (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4270)Washington Wizards (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/wsh/washington-wizards)ClemsonBrown, Kwame (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=981)Charlotte Bobcats (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/cha/charlotte-bobcats)
Bynum, Andrew (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2748)Los Angeles Lakers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/lal/los-angeles-lakers)
CNAMETEAMCOLLEGEChandler, Tyson (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=984)Dallas Mavericks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/dal/dallas-mavericks)
Collins, Jason (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=987)Atlanta Hawks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/atl/atlanta-hawks)StanfordCollins, Jarron (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=988)Los Angeles Clippers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/lac/los-angeles-clippers)StanfordCurry, Eddy (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=990)New York Knicks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks)
DNAMETEAMCOLLEGEDalembert, Samuel (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=991)Sacramento Kings (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/sac/sacramento-kings)Seton HallDiop, DeSagana (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=992)Charlotte Bobcats (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/cha/charlotte-bobcats)
Duncan, Tim (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=215)San Antonio Spurs (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/sa/san-antonio-spurs)Wake ForestENAMETEAMCOLLEGEElson, Francisco (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=234)Utah Jazz (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/utah/utah-jazz)CaliforniaEly, Melvin (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1709)Denver Nuggets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/den/denver-nuggets)Fresno StateErden, Semih (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3425)Boston Celtics (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/bos/boston-celtics)
FNAMETEAMCOLLEGEFesenko, Kyrylo (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3205)Utah Jazz (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/utah/utah-jazz)
Foster, Jeff (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=250)Indiana Pacers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/ind/indiana-pacers)Texas StateFrye, Channing (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2754)Phoenix Suns (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/phx/phoenix-suns)ArizonaGNAMETEAMCOLLEGEGadzuric, Dan (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1710)Golden State Warriors (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/gs/golden-state-warriors)UCLAGasol, Marc (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3206)Memphis Grizzlies (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mem/memphis-grizzlies)
Gortat, Marcin (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2758)Orlando Magic (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/orl/orlando-magic)
Gray, Aaron (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3207)New Orleans Hornets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/no/new-orleans-hornets)PittsburghHNAMETEAMCOLLEGEHaddadi, Hamed (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3478)Memphis Grizzlies (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mem/memphis-grizzlies)
Hawes, Spencer (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3211)Philadelphia 76ers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/phi/philadelphia-76ers)WashingtonHayes, Chuck (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2834)Houston Rockets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/hou/houston-rockets)KentuckyHaywood, Brendan (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1000)Dallas Mavericks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/dal/dallas-mavericks)North CarolinaHibbert, Roy (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3436)Indiana Pacers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/ind/indiana-pacers)GeorgetownHilario, Nene (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1713)Denver Nuggets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/den/denver-nuggets)
Hollins, Ryan (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3008)Cleveland Cavaliers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/cle/cleveland-cavaliers)UCLAHorford, Al (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3213)Atlanta Hawks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/atl/atlanta-hawks)FloridaHoward, Dwight (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2384)Orlando Magic (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/orl/orlando-magic)
INAMETEAMCOLLEGEIlgauskas, Zydrunas (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=362)Miami Heat (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mia/miami-heat)
JNAMETEAMCOLLEGEJefferson, Al (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2389)Utah Jazz (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/utah/utah-jazz)
Jones, Solomon (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3010)Indiana Pacers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/ind/indiana-pacers)South FloridaJordan, DeAndre (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3442)Los Angeles Clippers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/lac/los-angeles-clippers)Texas A&MKNAMETEAMCOLLEGEKaman, Chris (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1982)Los Angeles Clippers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/lac/los-angeles-clippers)Central MichiganKoufos, Kosta (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3444)Minnesota Timberwolves (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/min/minnesota-timberwolves)Ohio StateKrstic, Nenad (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1719)Oklahoma City Thunder (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/okc/oklahoma-city-thunder)
LNAMETEAMCOLLEGELee, David (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2772)Golden State Warriors (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/gs/golden-state-warriors)FloridaLopez, Robin (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3447)Phoenix Suns (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/phx/phoenix-suns)StanfordLopez, Brook (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3448)New Jersey Nets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/nj/new-jersey-nets)StanfordMNAMETEAMCOLLEGEMagloire, Jamaal (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=498)Miami Heat (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mia/miami-heat)KentuckyMahinmi, Ian (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2774)Dallas Mavericks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/dal/dallas-mavericks)
Mbenga, D.J. (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2450)New Orleans Hornets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/no/new-orleans-hornets)
McGee, JaVale (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3452)Washington Wizards (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/wsh/washington-wizards)
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Miller, Brad (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=556)Houston Rockets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/hou/houston-rockets)PurdueMing, Yao (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1722)Houston Rockets (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/hou/houston-rockets)
Mohammed, Nazr (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=568)Charlotte Bobcats (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/cha/charlotte-bobcats)KentuckyMozgov, Timofey (http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4298)New York Knicks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks)
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[z0sa]

don't mind 2b. His nervous tick got the best of him.

[history2b]

don't mind 2b. His nervous tick got the best of him.


Don't mind z0sa who's made it his past time following around anonymous men on a sports message board.

[lefty]

My posts are incoherent because It's really difficult to see my keyboard while I'm giving a blowjob to Culburn

[ALVAREZ6]

history2b
Can't Start Threads


:lol

[history2b]

Clever. You should be a writer. So original.

[hater]

let's see what we got:
1. Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Dwight Howard
4. kendrik perkins
5. Nene
6. Marcus Camby
7. Rasheed Wallace
8. Marcin Gortat
9. Birdman
10 Anderson Varejao
11. Paul Millsap
12. Antonio McDyess
13. Shaq
14. Josh Smith
15. Chris Kaman
16. Tyson Chandler
17. Andrew Bynum
18. Rasho Nesterovic
19. joel przybilla
20. Lamar Odom
21. Chris Bosh
22. Michael Beasley
23. Pau Gasol
24. Emeka Okafor
25. Jason Maxiell

:lmao

[Roddy Beaubois]

I'll start

Tim Duncan

Wrong. I have never been able to pull of the move in my sig in practice.

[DAF86]

Wrong. I have never been able to pull of the move in my sig in practice.

That's 'cause you have never played against Dirk in an official game.

[Ashy Larry]

my 6'9" dead grandfather

[monosylab1k]

crofl hater and nkdlunch are such beaner brothers it isn't even funny. they agree with each other about fucking everything. those dudes both got shot out of the same beaner vagina.