Which Spurs team would be better?

[Findog]

Duncan and Oberto as the two bigs and Manu Ginobili at SG.

Duncan and Dirk as the two bigs and a thoroughly average player at SG.

[dbestpro]

Duncan and Oberto as the two bigs and Manu Ginobili at SG
proven by the number of rings.

[Findog]

Duncan and Oberto as the two bigs and Manu Ginobili at SG
proven by the number of rings.

:lmao

[portnoy1]

Duncan and Oberto as the two bigs and Manu Ginobili at SG.

Duncan and Dirk as the two bigs and a thoroughly average player at SG.
it kinda depends on who that so-called average 2 guard is. If you said Dahntay Jones then I'd say Dirk/Duncan. If you say Von Wafer then I'd say Duncan/Oberto/Manu.

[Leetonidas]

Roger Mason is an average shooting guard, so I take the Tim/Dirk combo.

[DAF86]

Right now or everybody at their primes?

[Findog]

it kinda depends on who that so-called average 2 guard is. If you said Dahntay Jones then I'd say Dirk/Duncan. If you say Von Wafer then I'd say Duncan/Oberto/Manu.

Von Wafer isn't a starter. Let's go with the 15th best starting SG, whoever in your mind you think that would be.

[Findog]

Right now or everybody at their primes?

Prime or Right Now.

[sonic21]

2006-2008

parker
finley
bruce
dirk
duncan

:lobt2::lobt2::lobt2:

[dirk4mvp]

Obviously the second team. Would there be a more deadly inside-out combo than Dirk/Duncan besides Kobe-Shaq?

[dbestpro]

Right now or everybody at their primes?

This is prime time.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Can you honestly imagine a team of Tim and Dirk losing?

[easy7]

duncan and oberto as the two bigs and manu ginobili at sg
proven by the number of rings.

+1

[portnoy1]

Von Wafer isn't a starter. Let's go with the 15th best starting SG, whoever in your mind you think that would be.I cant say then. The reason I bring that up, is cause If you have D.jones and Bowen defending then the big men ( Dirk ) wouldnt have to help as much. If you have Roger Mason, who cant move his feet that well then you would have guys getting in the lane at will. Matt Bonner cant stop anybody from dunking as far as im concerned. But if you have 2 good perimeter Dfenders then that covers up the soft big man problem. Example would be the rockets. Yao is big but he doesnt really scare that many guards. However he didnt have guys challenging him all the time since he had Battier and Artest defending the smalls.

[ClingingMars]

It's a no brainer. Dirk-Duncan

[DAF86]

This is prime time.

Manu's prime was from 2000/2001 'till 2005/2006. He's still a pretty good player but not the player that he used to be.

[DAF86]

Prime or Right Now.

Prime: Tim and Manu.

Right now: Tim and Dirk.

[portnoy1]

Can you honestly imagine a team of Tim and Dirk losing?Could you have imagined Tim/David losing. 2001 Lakers 4-0 ,2002 lakers 4-1.

[Findog]

I cant say then. The reason I bring that up, is cause If you have D.jones and Bowen defending then the big men ( Dirk ) wouldnt have to help as much. If you have Roger Mason, who cant move his feet that well then you would have guys getting in the lane at will. Matt Bonner cant stop anybody from dunking as far as im concerned. But if you have 2 good perimeter Dfenders then that covers up the soft big man problem. Example would be the rockets. Yao is big but he doesnt really scare that many guards. However he didnt have guys challenging him all the time since he had Battier and Artest defending the smalls.

Let's make this more tangible then. Would the Spurs be better or worse off if the following trade was cap legal and became a reality:

Dirk Nowitzki and Quentin Ross for Manu Ginobili and Matt Bonner. Mavs get an upgrade at SG and a replacement to play the 4. Spurs get an upgrade at PF and a replacement at the 2.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Could you have imagined Tim/David losing. 2001 Lakers 4-0 ,2002 lakers 4-1.

David was a dominant player, don't get me wrong. But Dirk brings a whole new skillset to the table. Both Tim and Robinson dominated the downlow, but giving the paint to Tim and the perimeter to Dirk would be incredible.

[portnoy1]

Let's make this more tangible then. Would the Spurs be better or worse off if the following trade was cap legal and became a reality:

Dirk Nowitzki and Quentin Ross for Manu Ginobili and Matt Bonner. Mavs get an upgrade at SG and a replacement to play the 4. Spurs get an upgrade at PF and a replacement at the 2.With the addition of Richard Jefferson yeah, but not by as much as you think. The Answer is still yes though.

[dbestpro]

The argument was started in another thread as to who would be better in their prime. In the other thread Manu was ahead so someone decided they did not like the results so they decided to create another poll. It makes about as much sense to argue Manu today with Dirk as it would today's Jabbar against Howard.

[portnoy1]

David was a dominant player, don't get me wrong. But Dirk brings a whole new skillset to the table. Both Tim and Robinson dominated the downlow, but giving the paint to Tim and the perimeter to Dirk would be incredible.Thats messed up cause everybody laughed when I suggested getting Bargnani from the Raptors.

[portnoy1]

David was a dominant player, don't get me wrong. But Dirk brings a whole new skillset to the table. Both Tim and Robinson dominated the downlow, but giving the paint to Tim and the perimeter to Dirk would be incredible.
What about Defensively, The 2005 Suns were awesome but they got wooped. The 2004 Pistons Got 14-19ts from their top 4 Players and yet they won a ring and Dominated because of their defense.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Thats messed up cause everybody laughed when I suggested getting Bargnani from the Raptors.

Well that's because Bargnani plays horrible defense and loses to Dirk in every category except 3PT%.

[Findog]

The argument was started in another thread as to who would be better in their prime. In the other thread Manu was ahead so someone decided they did not like the results so they decided to create another poll.

Didn't vote in that poll and don't know the results.


It makes about as much sense to argue Manu today with Dirk as it would today's Jabbar against Howard

Dirk in his prime is a much better player than Manu in his prime, and the Spurs would've been more successful if the two had switched places at the beginning of their careers.

[sonic21]

The argument was started in another thread as to who would be better in their prime. In the other thread Manu was ahead so someone decided they did not like the results so they decided to create another poll. It makes about as much sense to argue Manu today with Dirk as it would today's Jabbar against Howard.

they have the same age i think

[Findog]

What about Defensively, The 2005 Suns were awesome but they got wooped. The 2004 Pistons Got 14-19ts from their top 4 Players and yet they won a ring and Dominated because of their defense.

Dirk is not an active defensive liability. Have you read a scouting report since 2003?

[dirk4mvp]

Thats messed up cause everybody laughed when I suggested getting Bargnani from the Raptors.

Yeah because bargnani = dirk

[portnoy1]

Didn't vote in that poll and don't know the results.



Dirk in his prime is a much better player than Manu in his prime, and the Spurs would've been more successful if the two had switched places at the beginning of their careers.
So Tim/ Dirk and Drob is a nasty frontline. They cant be stopped offensively and defensively their a beast.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

What about Defensively, The 2005 Suns were awesome but they got wooped.
So you replace Manu with Dirk and now the Spurs are comparable to the 05 Suns? Manu isn't exactly all-defensive team material either.

The 2004 Pistons Got 14-19ts from their top 4 Players and yet they won a ring and Dominated because of their defense.They had both offense and defense, as you just stated. I don't know how that helps your argument.

[SA210]

We'd be better with Bruce Bowen on the team.

[portnoy1]

Dirk is not an active defensive liability. Have you read a scouting report since 2003?
jeees, I already said he plays better defense. Just not enough to consistently stop guards in the paint.

[Findog]

So you replace Manu with Dirk and now the Spurs are comparable to the 05 Suns? Manu isn't exactly all-defensive team material either.
They had both offense and defense, as you just stated. I don't know how that helps your argument.

Neither Dirk or Manu are stoppers, and neither one of them are turnstiles on defense either. If the Spurs were able to win a ring with Michael Finley playing heavy minutes, I'm pretty sure Dirk wouldn't be an active liability on defense either.

[portnoy1]

So you replace Manu with Dirk and now the Spurs are comparable to the 05 Suns? Manu isn't exactly all-defensive team material either.
They had both offense and defense, as you just stated. I don't know how that helps your argument.My point is that the pistons were not an offensive powerhouse. Chauncey, Hamilton, Prince and Wallace could occasionaly throw up a big game. But you didnt expect it from them every night as you would the suns. Yet they still won because they locked people up.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

My point is that the pistons were not an offensive powerhouse. Chauncey, Hamilton, Prince and Wallace could occasionaly throw up a big game. But you didnt expect it from them every night as you would the suns. Yet they still won because they locked people up.

I don't know why you keep bringing up Piston-like defense when we're talking about Dirk and Manu.

[Ryvin1]

I Think it would be fair if you used the money to help gauge the "equal team" (values from this years shamsports.com #'s and an article that said fab took the biannual exception of $1.99 million.)

Duncan($22,183,220) + Fab ($1.99) + Manu ($10,728,130)
VS
Duncan($22,183,220) + Dirk ($19,795,714) + SG ($7,077,584)

I'd have to go with the Duncan + Dirk team.

[Findog]

I Think it would be fair if you used the money to help gauge the "equal team" (values from this years shamsports.com #'s and an article that said fab took the biannual exception of $1.99 million.)

Duncan($22,183,220) + Fab ($1.99) + Manu ($10,728,130)
VS
Duncan($22,183,220) + Dirk ($19,795,714) + SG ($7,077,584)

I'd have to go with the Duncan + Dirk team.

I'm trying to come up with a useful comparison since they play different positions. That's why I suggested Tim/Dirk + spare at SG versus Tim/Spare + Manu at SG.

[portnoy1]

Making the team better would depend on how they affect both aspects of the game. offense and defense. Dirk can put up 25 a night with Duncan, I honestly believe that. Ginobili can put up, lets say 10pts. But he can also get a game saving FG, FT, Stl, Blk , RBD and anything else you can think of. I dont know if dirk can work around duncan and get less, significantly less touches. Example Jermaine Oneal/Chris Bosh didnt get the Raptors anywhere.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Ginobili can put up, lets say 10pts. But he can also get a game saving FG, FT, Stl, Blk , RBD and anything else you can think of. :lol Backing your argument with a "possible" game saving move? That applies for anyone. Especially a guy like Dirk.

I dont know if dirk can work around duncan and get less, significantly less touches.
He would get his touches. Even if he gets less, people forget that Dirk is not just a shooter.

Example Jermaine Oneal/Chris Bosh didnt get the Raptors anywhere.1. Dirk beats the shit out of O'Neal.
2. The Raptors as a whole team sucked.

[benefactor]

lol the poll numbers compared to the other thread. Guess the homers are scared to vote in a public one.

[Findog]

He would get his touches. Even if he gets less, people forget that Dirk is not just a shooter.


Careful. According to many of your fellow Spurs fans, he's nothing but a scorer, a white McAdoo. I thought he played brilliantly in that first-round series against San Antonio this year, even though his numbers were nothing eye-popping by his standards. It was how he should've played against Golden State. He essentially took what the San Antonio defense gave him and made the right reads and decisions with the ball...pretty much the opposite of how he pressed and tried to force things against the Warriors.

[sonic21]

lol the poll numbers compared to the other thread. Guess the homers are scared to vote in a public one.

exactly what i was thinking

[Muser]

Tim/Dirk no doubt.

[BadOdor]

2 franchise players on same team = think of the 2000-2002 lakers.

Maybe even more dominant, since both would be bigs.

[rAm]

Mav fans need to let it rest, Dirk will never win a ring, get over it.

[rAm]

2 franchise players on same team = think of the 2000-2002 lakers.

Maybe even more dominant, since both would be bigs.

Or you can think of 1997-2003 Spurs with TD and DR.

[dirk4mvp]

nice poll results.

[Ryvin1]

I'm trying to come up with a useful comparison since they play different positions. That's why I suggested Tim/Dirk + spare at SG versus Tim/Spare + Manu at SG.

Then how about:

Duncan($22,183,220) + Spare PF around $19.7- (like Pau Gasol or Kevin Garnet) + Manu ($10,728,130)

VS

Duncan($22,183,220) + Dirk ($19,795,714) + Spare SG around $10.7 (like Josh Howard or Ben Gordan)

[HarlemHeat37]

David/Timmy isn't a good example, because The Admiral was clearly past his prime by that time..I would argue that the Spurs would have won the title in 2000 if Duncan hadn't gotten injured, in what was probably David's last year as a great player..regardless, he was obviously past his prime..

Jermaine/Bosh isn't a good example, because Duncan and Dirk are A LOT better than both of those players..a prime Duncan is almost better than both players combined, since he gave you better defense than Jermaine, and better offense than Bosh, which are their 2 strengths respectively..

If you had them both in their primes, which is basically what the OP is saying, then that team would be pretty much unstoppable, assuming you had the same players on the team around them(which isn't realistic due to salary)..perfect compliment..

Dirk isn't even a bad defender, he's passable..it's irrelevant anyways, since a prime Duncan was arguably the best defensive player in the NBA, and he could control the paint all by himself anyways..

I can't even begin to think about how dominant that team would be..

Not a knock on Manu btw..we've won 3 rings with him, he's a proven player..Dirk is a superstar though, and he's much more consistent..

[anonoftheinternets]

Obviously the second team. Would there be a more deadly inside-out combo than Dirk/Duncan besides Kobe-Shaq?

dirk/duncan would kick kobe-shaq's ass. :wow Man I would have liked to see that.

Duncan as the man kicked kobe-shaq in 2003.

[spursfan1000]

Dirk-Duncan

[anonoftheinternets]

Then how about:

Duncan($22,183,220) + Spare PF around $19.7- (like Pau Gasol or Kevin Garnet) + Manu ($10,728,130)

VS

Duncan($22,183,220) + Dirk ($19,795,714) + Spare SG around $10.7 (like Josh Howard or Ben Gordan)

This makes it waaaaaaayy more intresting.

[anonoftheinternets]

man if all star games were played like ^ and people played seriously :O .. would be awesome to see....

[HarlemHeat37]

That isn't a fair comparison..

A prime Garnett was an MVP-type player that was definitely better than Dirk IMO..

if you put Tim and KG on the same team, they would completely dominate ANY competition of this era, and it wouldn't even be close IMO..

[anonoftheinternets]

That isn't a fair comparison..

A prime Garnett was an MVP-type player that was definitely better than Dirk IMO..

if you put Tim and KG on the same team, they would completely dominate ANY competition of this era, and it wouldn't even be close IMO..

i dont think KG > Dirk is so clear cut. Atleast Dirk still has a job as a franchise player. KG was cut some time back.

[baseline bum]

Option 1, since it'll piss off the Mavfans the most.