I Need Surgery Because I'm insured

[balli]

About six months ago I went into my insurance-plan chosen ENT because my sinuses wouldn't unclog. The ENT looked up my nose, said my septum was a little crooked, but not bad and that I should try a nasal steroid. Then he asks, "are you insured?"

Me: yes

ENT: Llllllllllets take another look. Well, it's actually fairly crooked. You need a septum re-alignment... and a turbinate reduction. It's outpatient.

Me: :wakeup okay, later.

Needless, I haven't gotten the for-profit surgery yet.

This is the system we've got. But everything's okay right?

And before people start complaining about the frivolous nature of this thread- based on the recent posting habits of idiot conservatives, I can only assume that petty anecdotal bitching passes for good argumentation around here. Way to lower the bar for rest of us. :tu

[baseline bum]

And before people start complaining about the frivolous nature of this thread- based on the recent posting habits of idiot conservatives, I can only assume that petty anecdotal bitching passes for good argumentation around here. Way to lower the bar for rest of us. :tu


I remember hearing LOL global warming from the conservatives everytime it snowed anywhere this winter, but they have been strangely silent on San Antonio just having the hottest month ever recorded.

[SnakeBoy]

This is the system we've got. But everything's okay right?

Well you got to decide what you wanted to do and if you wanted to see a different doctor so yeah it's alright.



I remember hearing LOL global warming from the conservatives everytime it snowed anywhere this winter, but they have been strangely silent on San Antonio just having the hottest month ever recorded.

The rest of the conntry that hasn't had a high pressure ridge parked over it is experiencing cooler than normal temps. I'm still LOL at global warming.

[SnakeBoy]

You really should get a different doctor Bali. Since the practice you're going to is the only one in the country that doesn't ask if you have insurance before you ever see the doctor. Must be something wrong.

[balli]

Well you got to decide what you wanted to do and if you wanted to see a different doctor so yeah it's alright.
Actually my insurance company chooses which doctors I can see. So I could see another doctor, sure, but I can't choose who that doctor is. In fact Utah's just about only and largest chain of healthcare services also owns my insurance company. But there's no conflict of interest there. Obviously, the private sector isn't out to screw me over in any way.

[ElNono]

FWIW, I do LOL @ Global Warming...

But on a somewhat related note, we're going overseas next week, and wife wants to take some tamiflu with her. Doctor agrees and writes prescription for 30 pills. Insurance refuses to pay more than 15. Says we can go back in 4 weeks and get 15 more, despite we're not going to be back then. We explain this to insurance, and they still don't want to pay more than 15...
So, we're taking what the insurance wants, not what the doctor wants. Kinda got used to it at this point.

[balli]

I remember hearing LOL global warming from the conservatives everytime it snowed anywhere this winter, but they have been strangely silent on San Antonio just having the hottest month ever recorded.

And furthermore, I haven't seen a new 'global warming is a reality' thread each day that it got up too 100.

[boutons_deux]

"we're taking what the insurance wants"

sure, rationing care, overriding the doctor's authority, for the profit of the insurance company, not for the care for the insured.

but that's alright with the wrongies, it's how the free market works

[SnakeBoy]

Actually my insurance company chooses which doctors I can see. So I could see another doctor, sure, but I can't choose who that doctor is. In fact Utah's just about only and largest chain of healthcare services also owns my insurance company. But there's no conflict of interest there. Obviously, the private sector isn't out to screw me over in any way.

So get a different insurance plan. Maybe get a better plan from a different state...oh wait the government won't allow that.

[ElNono]

So get a different insurance plan. Maybe get a better plan from a different state...oh wait the government won't allow that.

My current insurance is not portable. They won't pay for that much better specialist in the state next to mine. I don't think the government asked them to do that...

[SnakeBoy]

But on a somewhat related note, we're going overseas next week, and wife wants to take some tamiflu with her. Doctor agrees and writes prescription for 30 pills. Insurance refuses to pay more than 15. Says we can go back in 4 weeks and get 15 more, despite we're not going to be back then. We explain this to insurance, and they still don't want to pay more than 15...
So, we're taking what the insurance wants, not what the doctor wants. Kinda got used to it at this point.

Man that sucks. I'm sure if the government provided your healthcare you'd get all the preventative tamiflu you wanted for free.

[SnakeBoy]

I remember hearing LOL global warming from the conservatives everytime it snowed anywhere this winter, but they have been strangely silent on San Antonio just having the hottest month ever recorded.

It's hot in San Antonio in July and August! My god somebody needs to do something about this. We must stop this climate change! If we don't act now the CO2 might cause the temperature to start going down this fall.

[SonOfAGun]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_d_v3uWfQ0sM/Sk0B38eKC0I/AAAAAAAAAKA/Td7c7oz2O5Y/s320/CoolStoryBro.jpg

[Rodriguez]

Doctors would stitch a zipper on your stomach if each surgery could make a profit for them.

[baseline bum]

It's hot in San Antonio in July and August! My god somebody needs to do something about this. We must stop this climate change! If we don't act now the CO2 might cause the temperature to start going down this fall.

OMG, it snowed in Portland in the middle of winter. My god, the artic ice and glaciers all over North America melting must be a huge hoax, because it snowed in the middle of winter.

[SnakeBoy]

OMG, it snowed in Portland in the middle of winter. My god, the artic ice and glaciers all over North America melting must be a huge hoax, because it snowed in the middle of winter.

OMG! We're all gonna die OMG! We're all gonna die OMG!

[Rodriguez]

OMG! We're all gonna die OMG! We're all gonna die OMG!
You will live as long as you want if you are pious enough a believer of God.

[ElNono]

Man that sucks. I'm sure if the government provided your healthcare you'd get all the preventative tamiflu you wanted for free.

Maybe not. But then again, $100 for tamiflu out of pocket is highway robbery.

[mookie2001]

i once thought i had a deviated septum for an entire year, turns out i was just doing a lot of coke

[ElNono]

My dad used to get a nose bleed every month for years. Doc always thought it was high blood pressure, and medicated accordingly, until he went to see a nose specialist. Quick surgery, and no more bleeding. Moral of the story: always go get a second opinion.

[SnakeBoy]

Yeah it should be free even though you don't actually need it. Fear should always be alleviated with free stuff. Think of how much your going to spend popping tamiflu all winter long when you get back.

[ElNono]

Yeah it should be free even though you don't actually need it. Fear should always be alleviated with free stuff. Think of how much your going to spend popping tamiflu all winter long when you get back.

I don't write prescriptions, the doctor does. For all your bitching and moaning about the government telling you what's good or not for you instead of your doctor, I don't see the same outrage towards the private company...

Who is the hypocrite again?

And I don't want it free. I'm willing to pay for it if pharma would actually make it affordable like they do pretty much everywhere else in the world, where they don't have a green light to charge whatever they want.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I remember hearing LOL global warming from the conservatives everytime it snowed anywhere this winter, but they have been strangely silent on San Antonio just having the hottest month ever recorded.

Probably because some of us live in other towns and don't spend every waking moment refreshing weather.com for SA's weather, but that's just a guess.

It's been downright mild up here in Dallas (relative to the last 5-6 summers), but thanks for playing.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

FWIW, I do LOL @ Global Warming...

But on a somewhat related note, we're going overseas next week, and wife wants to take some tamiflu with her. Doctor agrees and writes prescription for 30 pills. Insurance refuses to pay more than 15. Says we can go back in 4 weeks and get 15 more, despite we're not going to be back then. We explain this to insurance, and they still don't want to pay more than 15...
So, we're taking what the insurance wants, not what the doctor wants. Kinda got used to it at this point.

So you think that will change under Obamacare? Then you'll be getting what some politician's buddy in D.C. wants.

[SnakeBoy]

I'm willing to pay for it if pharma would actually make it affordable

5 or 6 bucks a pill isn't affordable for you? Who the hell is paying for your overseas trip?

Ever bought a beer at a Spurs game?

[ElNono]

So you think that will change under Obamacare? Then you'll be getting what some politician's buddy in D.C. wants.

Did I say that? That doesn't mean the current system is not broken.

[ducks]

I remember hearing LOL global warming from the conservatives everytime it snowed anywhere this winter, but they have been strangely silent on San Antonio just having the hottest month ever recorded.

dude
history has proved what temputures do
global warmer my foot

[fyatuk]

About six months ago I went into my insurance-plan chosen ENT because my sinuses wouldn't unclog. The ENT looked up my nose, said my septum was a little crooked, but not bad and that I should try a nasal steroid. Then he asks, "are you insured?"

Me: yes

ENT: Llllllllllets take another look. Well, it's actually fairly crooked. You need a septum re-alignment... and a turbinate reduction. It's outpatient.

Me: :wakeup okay, later.

Needless, I haven't gotten the for-profit surgery yet.

And this attitude would be different under a government sponsored insurance plan? Not a chance.

[ElNono]

5 or 6 bucks a pill isn't affordable for you? Who the hell is paying for your overseas trip?

Ever bought a beer at a Spurs game?

Who cares who pays for the trip? It's actually my parents, but it's besides the point.
My wife already gets a chunk of her salary taken out so we can pay $25 instead of $100+. And 5 bucks a pill is expensive for a flu pill. There's a reason Roche was forced to relinquish their monopoly on countries like the UK and let other labs make and sell the drug. They didn't even do the R&D on it.

[SnakeBoy]

My god, the artic ice and glaciers all over North America melting must be a huge hoax

My God, the artic ice decreased while the antarctic ice increased. Why did mankind do this? Why oh why? God help us!

[sook]

dang that sucks bali

[SnakeBoy]

Who cares who pays for the trip? It's actually my parents, but it's besides the point.


Well stop being stupid and ask her parents for a $100 to protect their daughter from the swine flu. Like they're going to say no to that. Jeez.

[baseline bum]

Probably because some of us live in other towns and don't spend every waking moment refreshing weather.com for SA's weather, but that's just a guess.

It's been downright mild up here in Dallas (relative to the last 5-6 summers), but thanks for playing.

Get the fuck out of here. The right wingers on this forum point to every snowstorm this country ever has as "proof" there is no such thing global warming, and then they shut the fuck up the second the anecdotal evidence "points" the other way.

[SnakeBoy]

and then they shut the fuck up the second the anecdotal evidence "points" the other way.

I haven't shut the fuck up. IT"S FUCKING HOT! It's August in south Texas and it's fucking HOT as shit!

I say it everyday... FUCK it's HOT! Just like I've done every summer since 1976!

[ElNono]

Well stop being stupid and ask her parents for a $100 to protect their daughter from the swine flu. Like they're going to say no to that. Jeez.

And they would, but again, besides the point.
She's already paying an insurance company for that.

Again, do you let your insurance company tell you what's good for you or your doctor?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Get the fuck out of here. The right wingers on this forum point to every snowstorm this country ever has as "proof" there is no such thing global warming, and then they shut the fuck up the second the anecdotal evidence "points" the other way.

What anecdotal evidence? That it's hot in Texas in the summer? Come on man, you're smarter than that.

I actually saw the other day on CNN where some dumbass was discussing all the ills facing our nation and said you could tell global warming was hitting us hard due to the drought in the south. Howabout the Dust Bowl days? Was GW fucking us then, too?

Look, you're going to get people ribbing those who are GW nuts about their views. They deserve it. One volcano can go off somewhere in the world and change climates worldwide. Shit happens. It's earth. It's arrogant to assume we can control this planet's climate. It's even more arrogant to advance the notion that ethanol and wind farms can fix all our ills, but that's the basket the Dems and their supporters have put their eggs in when it comes to global warming.

[SonOfAGun]

LOL, can you imagine another Dust Bowl during these current times.

The country would go ape shit! I seriously believe the people would elect Gore, King Supreme.

[SnakeBoy]

And they would, but again, besides the point.
She's already paying an insurance company for that.
Again, do you let your insurance company tell you what's good for you or your doctor?

You seem to be missing the point. She's paying insurance to pay for medical treatment. YOU'RE NOT SICK, YOUR WIFE'S NOT SICK! You're just scared you might get sick because you watched too much tv and your insurance company still paid for half of what you wanted.

And your doctor didn't tell you that you needed to do this. Your wife went and asked him and he said ok and wrote a script. Last time I went to the doctor I asked for 6 different meds that I like to have on hand just in case. Doc gave me scripts for all of them, insurance paid for some of it, I paid the rest. If it's not something dangerous or controlled most doctors will write a script for most any reasonable request.

I don't let the insurance company or the doctor make my decisions for me.

[ElNono]

You seem to be missing the point. She's paying insurance to pay for medical treatment. YOU'RE NOT SICK, YOUR WIFE'S NOT SICK! You're just scared you might get sick because you watched too much tv and your insurance company still paid for half of what you wanted.

And your doctor didn't tell you that you needed to do this. Your wife went and asked him and he said ok and wrote a script. Last time I went to the doctor I asked for 6 different meds that I like to have on hand just in case. Doc gave me scripts for all of them, insurance paid for some of it, I paid the rest. If it's not something dangerous or controlled most doctors will write a script for most any reasonable request.

I don't let the insurance company or the doctor make my decisions for me.

It's called preventive care. Should me or my wife or both come back with swine flu, it's going to cost the insurance company a whole lot more than the $60 bucks they saved. It's completely shortsighted on their part. But hey, if that's how they wanna do it, that's just how it's going to be done.

[SnakeBoy]

It's called preventive care.

:lol Yeah that's what preventative care is.:lol

[ElNono]

:lol Yeah that's what preventative care is.:lol

What do YOU think preventive care is?

I'm going to a country that declared a sanitary emergency over the swine flu and only resumed sending kids to school last week.

We'll see. I'm certainly hoping their gamble pays off. I definitely don't wanna get sick nor does my wife. And we obviously will be taking precautions, but there's so much you can do.

[whottt]

What anecdotal evidence? That it's hot in Texas in the summer? Come on man, you're smarter than that.

I actually saw the other day on CNN where some dumbass was discussing all the ills facing our nation and said you could tell global warming was hitting us hard due to the drought in the south. Howabout the Dust Bowl days? Was GW fucking us then, too?

Look, you're going to get people ribbing those who are GW nuts about their views. They deserve it. One volcano can go off somewhere in the world and change climates worldwide. Shit happens. It's earth. It's arrogant to assume we can control this planet's climate. It's even more arrogant to advance the notion that ethanol and wind farms can fix all our ills, but that's the basket the Dems and their supporters have put their eggs in when it comes to global warming.



Get the fuck out of here Aggie.

The climate never changed before Bush invented cars.

Fact.

PS: It didn't get hot in SA during the summer either.

Also fact.

[LnGrrrR]

Biloxi is too hot too.

[whottt]

I personally am just glad to know that if we stop driving the climate won't change.

At least we know there's something we can do about it :tu

[SnakeBoy]

What do YOU think preventive care is?


Your right. Giving you a stockpile of a drug you may or may not need that may or may not be effective is good preventative care.

You're aware that tamiflu resistant H1N1 strains are rapidly becoming the norm right? Better see if your insurance will load you up on Relenza and Rimantidine too. Pesky influenza just won't stop mutating. The government should do something about that, pass a law or something.

[baseline bum]

What anecdotal evidence? That it's hot in Texas in the summer? Come on man, you're smarter than that.


Hence, giving people crap for using the same kind of anecdotal evidence to completely dismiss global warming over and over (ooh, it snowed in Green Bay during a football game, wow, look at the huge snowstorm to hit Oregon). I figured the sarcasm came off pretty clearly, but maybe I should have written it in blue like timvp intended when he introduced the protocol. :lol

[ElNono]

Your right. Giving you a stockpile of a drug you may or may not need that may or may not be effective is good preventative care.

30 pills is a stockpile now? It's a month's dose.

And now you are basically telling me that you think the insurance co and not the doctor should be determining what will be effective or not... So please, from now on you can refrain from bitching about the government telling you what's good for you.


You're aware that tamiflu resistant H1N1 strains are rapidly becoming the norm right? Better see if your insurance will load you up on Relenza and Rimantidine too. Pesky influenza just won't stop mutating. The government should do something about that, pass a law or something.

I would rather have something to try that go at it alone. I'm actually hoping there will be H1N1 flu vaccines available when we get there, but it's not a sure thing right now. But if they are, I'll probably get it over there where it's going to be a lot cheaper than getting it here, with or without insurance.

[spurster]

I think this thread illustrates one of the reasons why medical costs continue to climb.

When you buy auto or house insurance you have a deductible, and they don't pay a cent until you are over the deductible. However, with (most?) medical insurance, you have co-pays and freebies from the start, I suppose to encourage preventive medicine and trying to get you to see the doctor before it's too late. However, you get the cases here where patients are encouraged to get expensive treatments, and patients whining once to get doctors to write prescriptions for self-diagnosed conditions, twice when they actually have to pay for it.

[Rodriguez]

health care is business, enough said.

[boutons_deux]

I know of quotes for treatment of $37K if you don't have insurance, and $137K if you have insurance.

[ElNono]

I think this thread illustrates one of the reasons why medical costs continue to climb.

When you buy auto or house insurance you have a deductible, and they don't pay a cent until you are over the deductible. However, with (most?) medical insurance, you have co-pays and freebies from the start, I suppose to encourage preventive medicine and trying to get you to see the doctor before it's too late. However, you get the cases here where patients are encouraged to get expensive treatments, and patients whining once to get doctors to write prescriptions for self-diagnosed conditions, twice when they actually have to pay for it.

So high deductibles is your solution?
Do you even know what preventive care means?
The word preventive automatically implies you don't have a condition yet, but are trying to prevent one that would cost more to treat down the line.
Nobody was self-diagnosed here. Nobody put a gun to the doctor's head to write a prescription. His professional opinion was requested and he decided. Exactly the person that needs to be deciding these things. Not an insurance mofo on a phone line trying to nickel and dime you to death.

[DarrinS]

I've had nothing but good experiences with my insurance plan.

To the OP: stop doing coke and your sinuses will be fine.



P.S. Climate changes? Holy shit! Time to move to higher ground before Manhattan and Miami are underwater.

[Rodriguez]

I know of quotes for treatment of $37K if you don't have insurance, and $137K if you have insurance.
The 1K would be burdened on taxpayers after all. The truth is the government doesn't want to store so many dollars which are shrinking in value, apparently it's a better option to use them here and there than keeping them in your box till they become rubbishes. Besides, the more use of money means the more stimulus to the economy, which is positive for the recovery act.

[ElNono]

P.S. Climate changes? Holy shit! Time to move to higher ground before Manhattan and Miami are underwater.

LOL... Come on Darrin, it's never too late to panic!!!!

[101A]

FWIW, I do LOL @ Global Warming...

But on a somewhat related note, we're going overseas next week, and wife wants to take some tamiflu with her. Doctor agrees and writes prescription for 30 pills. Insurance refuses to pay more than 15. Says we can go back in 4 weeks and get 15 more, despite we're not going to be back then. We explain this to insurance, and they still don't want to pay more than 15...
So, we're taking what the insurance wants, not what the doctor wants. Kinda got used to it at this point.

It's not that they don't "want" to - they can't.

There is a specification in the plan some where that limits Tamiflu (and probably all accute drugs) on your plan to a 30ds with a single prescription.

It is common; and the plan is regulated by the GOVERNMENT and cannot make exceptions without running afoul of the Department of Insurance.

If you think similar rules, just as inflexible, won't be included in a govt. run plan then - well, you have no experience with Medicare (A, B or especially D) - and are otherwise delusional.

You're also projecting every problem you have with healthcare and assuming whatever our idiot congress comes up with will cure those ills (so to speak).

Wake up. It will get worse, not better.

[balli]

LMFAO at how stupid the board's republicunts are being. Baseline makes a comment about the often flimsy evidence used to bash GW... but they all entirely miss the point, per usual... and just start screaming about what a hoax GW is.

You people are so fucked up I can't even believe it sometimes.

[balli]

So get a different insurance plan. Maybe get a better plan from a different state...oh wait the government won't allow that.

So rather than fixing the system, the Republican solution is that I pick up my whole life and move it to Vermont, while a bunch of birthers go out and scream at the people talking in town halls so the debate over how to repair said system can't even take place. Real solutions oriented there, right wing :tu.



And this attitude would be different under a government sponsored insurance plan? Not a chance.

When did I say I wanted or intended to buy into a government sponsored plan? There is certainly no pending legislation that would require me to.

[ElNono]

It's not that they don't "want" to - they can't.

There is a specification in the plan some where that limits Tamiflu (and probably all accute drugs) on your plan to a 30ds with a single prescription.

It is common; and the plan is regulated by the GOVERNMENT and cannot make exceptions without running afoul of the Department of Insurance.

If you think similar rules, just as inflexible, won't be included in a govt. run plan then - well, you have no experience with Medicare (A, B or especially D) - and are otherwise delusional.

You're also projecting every problem you have with healthcare and assuming whatever our idiot congress comes up with will cure those ills (so to speak).

Wake up. It will get worse, not better.

Eh, I don't claim the current proposed plan will make things any better.
The doesn't preclude me from stating that current system is full of shit.
For all the fear mongering we hear around here, we already have rationed care, we already have a third party deciding what it's good or not for you instead of a professional, and we already have a corrupt system.

[101A]

...we already have a third party deciding what it's good or not for you instead of a professional, and we already have a corrupt system.

Fail.

You CAN get the second 30 day prescription filled; you have a prescription for it, right?

So do it.

NOBODY is stopping you; no third party anywhere.

You just don't want to spend your own $$$$.

Going overseas, but dont' have the money to pay for what YOU think you need? Quit whining.

[balli]

You just don't want to spend your own $$$$.
He spent his own money when he paid and/or worked for his insurance plan.

[101A]

I called my insurance company and told them I wanted steak for dinner; that if I didn't eat I'd end up in the hospital and THEN THEY'D SEE how much not eating costs!!!!!

Those bastards wouldn't pay for it!!!!

[101A]

He spent his own money when he paid and/or worked for his insurance plan.

And that insurance plan is a contract that includes what it will, and won't cover.

I called my auto insurance company, without new brakes, I'm gonna have a wreck - THEY WON'T PAY FOR IT!!!!

[balli]

So when a doctor writes a scrip, it isn't reasonable to expect that you get a full course of whatever prescription it is. Only half?

He's not asking for a steak dinner, he's asking them to pay for the entirety of the prescription his doctor wrote for him.

[clambake]

i only got half of the prescription and my insurance co. told me to get the rest from my butcher.

[boutons_deux]

"I've had nothing but good experiences with my insurance plan."

Therefore, EVERYBODY has good experiences with their insurance plans.

(if they can afford it and if they can find an insurer)

Probably the best part of an employer's plan is that it's free and untaxed. Employee benefits given free because BIG GOVT permits it. Damn, let's all hate and destroy big govt.

[101A]

LMFAO at how stupid the board's republicunts are being. Baseline makes a comment about the often flimsy evidence used to bash GW... but they all entirely miss the point, per usual... and just start screaming about what a hoax GW is.

You people are so fucked up I can't even believe it sometimes.

I get it; the doctor is to a certain extent $$$ driven; when he realized this person had coverage he pushed harder for surgery.

Not uncommon; Doctors are, ultimately, greedy (as are ALL humans)....

How, exactly, is giving EVERYONE coverage, managed not by insurance company's ALSO hungry for money, but by govt. beureacrats who could give two shits how much anything costs, going to fix HIS problem.

Talk about stupid; you're supporting something that is going to make the problem WORSE.

I called my home insurance company and told them I was a filthy bastard; one of those fools piling up garbage all over the house; floor to ceiling; fire hazard at its worst; THEY WON'T COME CLEAN MY HOUSE!!!

Greedy bastards.

[101A]

So when a doctor writes a scrip, it isn't reasonable to expect that you get a full course of whatever prescription it is. Only half?

He's not asking for a steak dinner, he's asking them to pay for the entirety of the prescription his doctor wrote for him.

There is no contract to pay it.

It might as well be a steak dinner.

[101A]

Probably the best part of an employer's plan is that it's free and untaxed. Employee benefits given free because BIG GOVT permits it. Damn, let's all hate and destroy big govt.

Oh how benevelent of our government to let me keep some of MY money!!!

[balli]

How, exactly, is giving EVERYONE coverage, managed not by insurance company's ALSO hungry for money, but by govt. beureacrats who could give two shits how much anything costs, going to fix HIS problem.

Talk about stupid; you're supporting something that is going to make the problem WORSE.

I'm not supporting anything but reform. Other than that, there's nothing yet there to support. Certainly not a public option. I do resent that the right wing has taken to loudly interrupting the meetings our elected officials are trying to have on the matter.


I called my home insurance company and told them I was a filthy bastard; one of those fools piling up garbage all over the house; floor to ceiling; fire hazard at its worst; THEY WON'T COME CLEAN MY HOUSE!!!
You can't differentiate between asking a health insurance company to obligatorily pay for the entirety of a written drug prescription and asking homeowners to come clean the garbage from your house? This logic... is incoherent.

[101A]

I'm not supporting anything but reform. Other than that, there's nothing yet there to support. Certainly not a public option. I do resent that the right wing has taken to loudly interrupting the meetings our elected officials are trying to have on the matter.

I support REFORM!!!

Then learn something about the issue! You obviously don't know the first thing about our current system; you just know you don't like it. Hell, think about it, in a thread about a doctor wanting to game the system; we have a guy pissed that he can't game the system!!! Y'all want ALL problems to magically go away; you want to pay nothing for what you want; you want doctors to only precscribe the best course of action - you ant preventive, major, minor AND all things to be paid for ----- and people wonder why the fuck "healthcare" is so damned expensive!!!!


You can't differentiate between asking a health insurance company to obligatorily pay for the entirety of a written drug prescription and asking homeowners to come clean the garbage from your house? This logic... is incoherent.

I can differentiate just fine. You are so blinded by the issue you can't see the correlation.

[Wild Cobra]

Then he asks, "are you insured?"

Me: yes

ENT: Llllllllllets take another look.
Just shows they have ignorant staff. Some people would pay out of pocket if not insured, and if they don't look at others, they are missing out of potential hassle free money.

I remember hearing LOL global warming from the conservatives everytime it snowed anywhere this winter, but they have been strangely silent on San Antonio just having the hottest month ever recorded.
It's called "GLOBAL" for a reason. Regional highs are no big deal.

And furthermore, I haven't seen a new 'global warming is a reality' thread each day that it got up too 100.Maybe because people like me are tired of trying to teach people the truth who prefer to believe consensus than learn the facts.

[Wild Cobra]

My God, the artic ice decreased while the antarctic ice increased. Why did mankind do this? Why oh why? God help us!No shit. Why would "GLOBAL warming" miss the Antarctica?

[DarrinS]

I do resent that the right wing has taken to loudly interrupting the meetings our elected officials are trying to have on the matter.




Like that Democrat doctor in Georgia? It's absolutely un-American.

[balli]

Bookie: Hey balli, you owe me a thousand bucks. You never should have bet on The Cavs.

Me: Okay I have a thousand in my hand. I'll give you 500 now. Come back next week and I'll give you the rest.

Bookie: Actually, I'm leaving town next week. I need the money you owe me. Please pay me.

Me: I have a policy that I don't give out more than $500.00 a week. I don't care what I owe. You want the other $500.00, come back in 7 days.

Bookie: I told you, I'll be out of town in seven days. Plus, I need the money you owe me to help cover my travel expenses.

Me: Tough, I don't care. Here's 500. If you don't come back next week, you're out 500 bucks.

Bookie: You know I'm going to break your fucking legs right?

Me: Actually I'm going to hire and dupe a bunch of fake protestors into protecting me.

[ElNono]

Fail.

You CAN get the second 30 day prescription filled; you have a prescription for it, right?

So do it.

NOBODY is stopping you; no third party anywhere.

You just don't want to spend your own $$$$.


How dare I actually try to USE the insurance I pay dearly for every month!
I mean, the shame!!! I should just pay out of pocket and not inconvenience them, right?


Going overseas, but dont' have the money to pay for what YOU think you need? Quit whining.

Again, the misconception here is that I write scripts and I arbitrarily decided I need 30 pills. The prescription was written by a doctor, including the amount, based on his professional opinion.
But I guess I should completely disregard that, and should take your word instead. I mean, after all you write insurance policies!

[balli]

Maybe because people like me are tired of trying to teach people the truth who prefer to believe consensus than learn the facts.
Or maybe it's because you're all a bunch of dumb fucking hypocrites.

[ElNono]

we have a guy pissed that he can't game the system!!! Y'all want ALL problems to magically go away; you want to pay nothing for what you want; you want doctors to only precscribe the best course of action - you ant preventive, major, minor AND all things to be paid for ----- and people wonder why the fuck "healthcare" is so damned expensive!!!!

I don't want to game the system, I want to merely use it.
And I don't want to pay nothing. I have a copay for that drug, which I would gladly pay should the insurance actually let me.

[101A]

I don't want to game the system, I want to merely use it.
And I don't want to pay nothing. I have a copay for that drug, which I would gladly pay should the insurance actually let me.

Just buy the drug; no one is stopping you.

Or.

Wait thirty days and let the insurance company pay for it again (even though no one has the flu)

[ElNono]

Wait thirty days and let the insurance company pay for it again (even though no one has the flu)

I can't. I'm out of town. That's the actual reason the doctor wrote a script for 30 pills instead of 15. But the insurance company doesn't give a shit what the doctor thinks. They're going to do whatever the fuck they want.
Cost control! Cost control!!!!!!

[101A]

How dare I actually try to USE the insurance I pay dearly for every month!
I mean, the shame!!! I should just pay out of pocket and not inconvenience them, right?[quote]

You did use the insurance;

They paid for you to see the doctor who wrote a prescription for something you THINK you might get while traveling overseas.

(i was gonna get drunk and drive like an idiot, so I asked my auto insurance company to sent $2,000 to the body shop up the street to cover any damange that I might incur) - They wouldn't do it - AND I PAY MY PREMIUMS!!!!)



[QUOTE]Again, the misconception here is that I write scripts and I arbitrarily decided I need 30 pills. The prescription was written by a doctor, including the amount, based on his professional opinion.
But I guess I should completely disregard that, and should take your word instead. I mean, after all you write insurance policies!

You might need 60 pills; if you're doctor says so you'd be kind of stupid to not get them. Problem is: YOUR INSURANCE CONTRACT DOES NOT COVER A 60 DAY SUPPLY OF THAT DRUG!!!

And neither will a government run plan.

Pay for it.

[Wild Cobra]

Again, the misconception here is that I write scripts and I arbitrarily decided I need 30 pills. The prescription was written by a doctor, including the amount, based on his professional opinion.
But I guess I should completely disregard that, and should take your word instead. I mean, after all you write insurance policies!
There are reasons insurance companies only write short prescriptions, especially when it's not necessary. The swine flue is less of a problem than the seasonal flue. Then I'm curious. What are the potential side effects? If it one that can lower your immune system for other things? Maybe damage liver, kidneys, etc. with prolonged usage?

You claim it's preventative care. I disagree. If there was data showing it was more cost effective to have the pills than treating potential problems, the insurance companies would be on it. Get the new vaccination that came out instead.

Hypochondriac by change?

[101A]

I can't. I'm out of town. That's the actual reason the doctor wrote a script for 30 pills instead of 15. But the insurance company doesn't give a shit what the doctor thinks. They're going to do whatever the fuck they want.
Cost control! Cost control!!!!!!

If the insurance company is controlling costs, what is it you are doing?

[rjv]

what i do not understand is this trust people have in the corporate sector. as if having something vested in big business is inherently more secure than having an industry run through the government. this seems to ignore the obvious marriage that the corporate sector has enjoyed with the government for several decades now. so many are not comfortable with the government being behind the scenes for health care but they are okay with wall street calling the shots. many are quick to point out frivolous spending by the government but say little about the wanton spending habits of big business (administrative costs represent over 30 percent of the industry's expenditures) when it comes to CEO bonuses (the CEOs of the 7 biggest insurers averaged $14.2 million in compensation in 2007), salaries and stock options. and the most unusual aspect of all this is that people are calling the proposed health care reform by the obama administration "socialist". when one reads between the lines of this diluted reform they see that obama is going out of his way to ensure industrial profit remains intact.

as a result, the single payer plan is getting railroaded. HR 676 is not getting the support it once would have had from president obama as he has recently indicated that had we been starting health care from scratch he would be in favor of single pay but he would not do so now since this would be too vast of an overhaul to the system.

as bill moyers quipped, the banks were too big to fail and the health industry is now too big to fix. and this is socialist reform? hardly. no matter what all the conservative hyperbole tries to assert.

[balli]

And neither will a government run plan.
I'll ask again. Who in this thread said they wanted or intended to buy into a public option plan?

[101A]

what i do not understand is this trust people have in the corporate sector. as if having something vested in big business is inherently more secure than having an industry run through the government. this seems to ignore the obvious marriage that the corporate sector has enjoyed with the government for several decades now. so many are not comfortable with the government being behind the scenes for health care but they are okay with wall street calling the shots. many are quick to point out frivolous spending by the government but say little about the wanton spending habits of big business (administrative costs represent over 30 percent of the industry's expenditures) when it comes to CEO bonuses (the CEOs of the 7 biggest insurers averaged $14.2 million in compensation in 2007), salaries and stock options. and the most unusual aspect of all this is that people are calling the proposed health care reform by the obama administration "socialist". when one reads between the lines of this diluted reform they see that obama is going out of his way to ensure industrial profit remains intact.

as a result, the single payer plan is getting railroaded. HR 676 is not getting the support it once would have had from president obama as he has recently indicated that had we been starting health care from scratch he would be in favor of single pay but he would not do so now since this would be too vast of an overhaul to the system.

as bill moyers quipped, the banks were too big to fail and the health industry is now too big to fix. and this is socialist reform? hardly. no matter what all the conservative hyperbole tries to assert.

I want a choice for me, myself and my family.

I want the freedom to pick a plan I like; and offer it for my family; or not have a plan at all.

I do not want the government to control any more of my life, they control too much alread. It is already too big, and too powerful.....just see the recent meltdown; spurred largely by Fannie and Freddie as evidence. A government needs to be limited in scope and pervue; as small as is possible.

I am no fan of big corporations; I compete with them in the insurance industry every single day. I am David to their Goliath. I do a good job for my clients, controlling costs for them and their employees in healthcare; but guess what? The bill out of comittee in the House, that includes the public option? Ends me completely - but leaves the insurance companies in tact; they will have time, and they have the money, to change what they do as inevitably people move to the public option; by the time they are their, the carriers will have revamped (and gotten favorable laws written) - to do business in other ways.

I simply want the freedom to keep doing what I'm doing; to keep the business that me and my brother have built over 25 years alive and thriving. I want a government that isn't powerfull enough to end it with the stroke of a pen.

[101A]

I'll ask again. Who in this thread said they wanted or intended to buy into a public option plan?

That's the thing; there ultimately won't be a choice.

[balli]

That's paranoid.

[rjv]

what choices do people have now? most people do not want to be required to purchase health plans at premiums they cannot afford, and then be stuck with inadequate coverage designed to keep premiums from climbing even higher

[ElNono]

You did use the insurance;

They paid for you to see the doctor who wrote a prescription for something you THINK you might get while traveling overseas.

They paid for us to go see a doctor and get his professional opinion. Based on that informed opinion, he wrote a prescription he deemed necessary, which promptly was shitted all over by the insurance company.
Maybe I should have paid out of pocket for the whole experience, so you would be happy and proud that I cut costs...


(i was gonna get drunk and drive like an idiot, so I asked my auto insurance company to sent $2,000 to the body shop up the street to cover any damange that I might incur) - They wouldn't do it - AND I PAY MY PREMIUMS!!!!)

No, it's more like your car insurance giving you a discount because you installed an alarm system in your car. Something most insurance companies indeed do, because it can save them money on the long run.


You might need 60 pills; if you're doctor says so you'd be kind of stupid to not get them. Problem is: YOUR INSURANCE CONTRACT DOES NOT COVER A 60 DAY SUPPLY OF THAT DRUG!!!

And neither will a government run plan.

Pay for it.

This is exactly the kind of fine print bullshit you find out when you actually need the drug/procedure. Again, I'm not claiming that the government run insurance won't have said fine print. But that doesn't mean that I have to bend over and pretend it's allright.

[clambake]

The bill out of comittee in the House, that includes the public option? Ends me completely - but leaves the insurance companies in tact; they will have time, and they have the money, to change what they do as inevitably people move to the public option; by the time they are their, the carriers will have revamped (and gotten favorable laws written) - to do business in other ways.

[ElNono]

There are reasons insurance companies only write short prescriptions, especially when it's not necessary. The swine flue is less of a problem than the seasonal flue. Then I'm curious. What are the potential side effects? If it one that can lower your immune system for other things? Maybe damage liver, kidneys, etc. with prolonged usage?

Well, if insurance companies write prescriptions, then we're really fucked.


You claim it's preventative care. I disagree. If there was data showing it was more cost effective to have the pills than treating potential problems, the insurance companies would be on it. Get the new vaccination that came out instead.

A potential problem basically includes a visit to the ER, which under no way, shape or form can be any cheaper than $75. My doctor understand this. And I would definitely look for the vaccine if available. I'm not going to Kansas, I'm going to a country where H1N1 was declared a nation-wide medical emergency. Not that the insurance co gives a shit.


Hypochondriac by change?

Not really. I mean, the only medication I take is Prevacid, and an OTC allergy pill here and there when needed. And I don't even use the insurance when I go see my doctor because he's friend of mine. My wife does have an autoimmune deficiency disease that she didn't choose to have, and that can only be kept in remission, but she's doing fine with merely a steroid shot every 4 months or so, some steroids eye drops and vitamins. I don't think we really use insurance a whole lot (at least I personally don't), which is what really pisses me off.

[balli]

Death Panels Without the Panels

by Robert Wright

What more is there to say about Sarah Palin’s now-famous claim that President Obama’s health-care plan features “death panels” that will give patients the thumbs up or thumbs down? Just that, if this were Obama’s plan, it would have more in common with our current system than you might think.

In Palin’s fantasy, the death-panel “bureaucrats” were going to pick winners and losers based on a judgment about their “level of productivity in society.” Well, if you view income as a gauge of a person’s productivity in society—and God knows there are Republicans who do—then the quality of health care is already correlated with “productivity in society.” Obama’s plan, by making health care more affordable to lower income people, would make that less true.

This is just another way of making a point already made by Peter Singer in response to less delusional concerns about the possibility of rationing under Obama’s plan: we already ration health care; we just let the market do the rationing.

Any government health care plan will bring some new form of “rationing,” since no government can afford to guarantee everyone all possible medical treatment. But let’s be clear: the people who are trying to sabotage reform by telling mind-boggling lies about its hidden rationing agenda seem, in fact, pretty content with rationing; they seem happy with a system in which the least “productive” members of society get bad health care, including, occasionally, health care so bad that it leads to death.

And if these opponents of health-care reform are going to conjure up images of fascism to caricature the pro-reform side, it seems fair to conjure up a comparably hyperbolic symbol of their side of the argument—social Darwinism. As Herbert Spencer put the social Darwinist credo, “The poverty of the incapable, the distresses that come upon the imprudent, the starvation of the idle, and those shoulderings aside of the weak by the strong, which leave so many ‘in shallows and in miseries,’ are the decrees of a large, far-seeing benevolence.” But I guess a picture of Herbert Spencer on a placard doesn't pack quite as much punch as a picture of Hitler.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/08/palinapproved-death-panels.html

[ElNono]

If the insurance company is controlling costs, what is it you are doing?

I'm trying to use the insurance plan my wife pays for every month. Is it so hard to understand?

[spurster]

I'm not why insurance should solve your problem of going to a dangerous country. If it's dangerous, don't go.

A deductible only partially solves the problem of patients getting treatments they don't need (whether it's initiated by the physician or the patient). Having to pay for it is a strong incentive to cut costs.

[101A]

No, it's more like your car insurance giving you a discount because you installed an alarm system in your car. Something most insurance companies indeed do, because it can save them money on the long run.

But the insurance company didn't buy the alarm system, did they?

[ElNono]

I'm not why insurance should solve your problem of going to a dangerous country. If it's dangerous, don't go.

The ONLY reason I'm going is because of a procedure that the insurance co won't cover (which I'm actually not against), but costs upwards of 20K+ out of pocket over here, while it costs 5K over there. Even when you tack in the 2K in plane tickets and the 2K I won't be making at work, we're still not even at the half.
But that's just another facet of the failure of a system we have here, and it's besides the point. What's the point of seeing a doctor if they're going to shit all over his opinion? Might as well not even pay for the doctor visit if you're not going to give a shit. I mean, I have little doubt they would do that if they could.


A deductible only partially solves the problem of patients getting treatments they don't need (whether it's initiated by the physician or the patient). Having to pay for it is a strong incentive to cut costs.

And deny care... but let's not talk about those that can't even afford insurance. Those people don't really exist.

[ElNono]

But the insurance company didn't buy the alarm system, did they?

With the discounted rate, they sure paid for it in a matter of months.
And I'm not asking them to pay for the entirety of the drug. I'll pay my part if they pay theirs.

[Wild Cobra]

A potential problem basically includes a visit to the ER, which under no way, shape or form can be any cheaper than $75. My doctor understand this. And I would definitely look for the vaccine if available. I'm not going to Kansas, I heard a day or two the vaccine was available.

Thing is, it's less dangerous than the annual flue. That was it? $5 x 30 or $150 for 30 days. I'd be glad they were willing to give 15. Even though the flue may cost $1,000 if treatment was necessary, I'm pretty sure the chances are well under 1% of needing any medical care. So if we take that $150, x 100, we have a cost of $15,000 per 100 people, at 1% sickness without the preventative care, and $1,000 for the 1%... Look at the math. Under this hypothetical situation, the preventative care is 15 times more expensive. At them giving 15 days without much consideration, it would cost $7,500 to treat 100 people to save a statistical $1,000 in the health care cost. Looks like a $6,500 loss to me.

Before you jump on my example, remember this is to illustrate a point. Not to be accurate costs.
I'm going to a country where H1N1 was declared a nation-wide medical emergency. Not that the insurance co gives a shit.I wonder if it really is? This is money in the form of foreign aide for countries to claim this, especially when it was the USA that first became over zealous on the issue. Is it really a problem, or a way for these nations to milk foreign aide?

[Wild Cobra]

I'm trying to use the insurance plan my wife pays for every month. Is it so hard to understand?
That's one reason why insurance has become so expensive. People see no need to save on the costs when they expect insurance to pay for it.

It was hilarious for me to watch the liberals cry when they made Prilosec an over the counter drug. It made it so consumers like me could buy it for under $1.00 each when the prescription was running over $3.00 each. Two of my relatives were complaining, because their insurance doesn't pay for over the counter drugs.

Funny how that works.

How much of the drugs costs do you thing go to pay for pharmaceutical regulations, the storage and control and pharmacists pay? If paying less than 30% of the original price is an example of all prescription drugs... The again, I'll bet it's more like a per unit cost.

[mookie2001]

i have to agree if its dangerous dont go

its like those adults who ask is it safe for me to go to nuevo laredo?, piedras negras or acuna

yes of course it is if youre not a 16 year old 100 lb girl trying to buy drugs with cashflow falling out of your purse. if youre that much of a twat- dont go

[ElNono]

I heard a day or two the vaccine was available.

Thing is, it's less dangerous than the annual flue. That was it? $5 x 30 or $150 for 30 days. I'd be glad they were willing to give 15. Even though the flue may cost $1,000 if treatment was necessary, I'm pretty sure the chances are well under 1% of needing any medical care. So if we take that $150, x 100, we have a cost of $15,000 per 100 people, at 1% sickness without the preventative care, and $1,000 for the 1%... Look at the math. Under this hypothetical situation, the preventative care is 15 times more expensive. At them giving 15 days without much consideration, it would cost $7,500 to treat 100 people to save a statistical $1,000 in the health care cost. Looks like a $6,500 loss to me.

You can put your calculator away. It costs well over 2K to spend a night at a hospital. And I'm not even begging for a handout here. I simply want my doctor's opinion to be respected, and simply be able to get what the doctor thinks it's best for the two of us, without being overruled by somebody that has no idea about our situation or clinical history for that matter.
They're sure glad to suck up the premium from my wife's paycheck and increase it every year. If anything, give me the pills and then go argue with the doctor. Kick him out of the network. Do whatever you need to do, but stop fucking around with your customers that pay on a timely manner every month. Shit, looks like I'm asking for too much.


Before you jump on my example, remember this is to illustrate a point. Not to be accurate costs.I wonder if it really is? This is money in the form of foreign aide for countries to claim this, especially when it was the USA that first became over zealous on the issue. Is it really a problem, or a way for these nations to milk foreign aide?

I'm not asking for fucking foreign aid. Stop spinning this thing. I just want my prescription fully filled.

[ElNono]

That's one reason why insurance has become so expensive. People see no need to save on the costs when they expect insurance to pay for it.

It was hilarious for me to watch the liberals cry when they made Prilosec an over the counter drug. It made it so consumers like me could buy it for under $1.00 each when the prescription was running over $3.00 each. Two of my relatives were complaining, because their insurance doesn't pay for over the counter drugs.

Funny how that works.

How much of the drugs costs do you thing go to pay for pharmaceutical regulations, the storage and control and pharmacists pay? If paying less than 30% of the original price is an example of all prescription drugs... The again, I'll bet it's more like a per unit cost.

What reason? That people expect to use the insurance they pay for?
How does the rest of the world manage to do exactly that and the costs are nowhere near what we have to spend?
I'm not claiming the current healthcare proposal will necessarily fix that, but you can't tell me somebody doesn't have a cash cow in the current system.
I mean, you think tort reform will work? Heck, let's do it. But this system is inflated beyond belief. Somebody is cashing in, and it's not any of the patients.

[boutons_deux]

"drugs costs do you thing go to pay for pharmaceutical regulations"

very little.

It was reported that BigPharma spends $60B/year on marketing (because each $ spent on marketing returned nearly $1.50 in sales) but only $30B/year on research.

If you think the FDA is anti-BigPharma, GFY.

The FDA is fully captured by BigPharma, but you want to take drugs that are even less regulated? Be my guest, go for the Darwin Award 2010.

[DarrinS]

"drugs costs do you thing go to pay for pharmaceutical regulations"

very little.

It was reported that BigPharma spends $60B/year on marketing (because each $ spent on marketing returned nearly $1.50 in sales) but only $30B/year on research.

If you think the FDA is anti-BigPharma, GFY.

The FDA is fully captured by BigPharma, but you want to take drugs that are even less regulated? Be my guest, go for the Darwin Award 2010.



I love how you fags always say Big Oil, Big Insurance, Big Tobacco, Big Pharmaceutical -- but I never hear anyone say Big Education, etc.

[clambake]

uh oh, mr. birther dropped the fag word again.

getting pissy?

[Rodriguez]

I love how you fags always say Big Oil, Big Insurance, Big Tobacco, Big Pharmaceutical -- but I never hear anyone say Big Education, etc.
Education is too lame to deserve "big" and has long been overlooked, so it's no wonder we have got so many dumb asses even when filtering the immigrants. Like medical system, Education is also an ideal cradle for corruption to lush. It sounds sad but actually exists that, some god-given rights like health care and education, may bankrupt our citizens sometimes.

[Wild Cobra]

It was reported that BigPharma spends $60B/year on marketing (because each $ spent on marketing returned nearly $1.50 in sales) but only $30B/year on research.

And at what cost does advertisement add to the product price? Prilosec is advertised, and less that $1 per pill.

[clambake]

gee......less than $1 for an over the counter drug.

what a bargain!

[Wild Cobra]

I'm not asking for fucking foreign aid. Stop spinning this thing. I just want my prescription fully filled.
I didn't mean you were spinning things in this regard. I meant that countries that rely on USA aide trump up the real effects of a problem that the USA recognizes. This way, they get more money from us. In this case, the swine flue. This strain has proven to be harmless except for people already in real bad health. I'll bet your insurance company recognized that fact. It wouldn't surprise me if your doctor, like most, will prescribe what the patient wants, even if they really don't need it.

Let me ask this a different way.

What are the known side effects of the medication you want. If they are serious enough, that's another reason an insurance company may have a hard time agreeing to pay for it.

[ElNono]

In this case, the swine flue. This strain has proven to be harmless except for people already in real bad health. I'll bet your insurance company recognized that fact.

It's not a matter of bad health. It's a matter that the doctor, that knows my wife has a immunodeficiency disease, deemed appropriate for her to have access to the drug in case she acquires said flu. And that's all I need to know.
There's a reason I go to the doctor to get his professional opinion instead of visiting the insurance's office. I don't want the insurance to make decisions that the doctor already made.


What are the known side effects of the medication you want. If they are serious enough, that's another reason an insurance company may have a hard time agreeing to pay for it.

They will allow half of the prescription to the be filled, and have no problem filling the other half next month, so obviously that's not the problem.

[Wild Cobra]

They will allow half of the prescription to the be filled, and have no problem filling the other half next month, so obviously that's not the problem.
Side effects please...

[ElNono]

Side effects please...

What that has to do with anything? Look it up yourself: Tamiflu
The doctor wrote the prescription not because he's a nice guy, but because in his professional opinion it was something he deemed we should have.
I don't care what the insurance company thinks. They don't go to Medical school.

[Wild Cobra]

What that has to do with anything? Look it up yourself: Tamiflu
The doctor wrote the prescription not because he's a nice guy, but because in his professional opinion it was something he deemed we should have.
I don't care what the insurance company thinks. They don't go to Medical school.I just did. Side effects include:

Anaphylaxis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaphylaxis)

Stevens–Johnson syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevens-Johnson_syndrome)

Toxic epidermal necrolysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_epidermal_necrolysis)

Cardiac arrhythmia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiac_arrhythmia)

Is it worth the chance of these side effects for a flue that is less sever than the annual flue outbreaks?

Is it possible your insurance company recognized the costs of treating these side effects if necessary?

[Wild Cobra]

ElNono...

Did you even know there were that many possible serious side effects?

Why would anyone in their right mind take it for a minor flue they are unlikely to come in contact with?

Again, hypochondriac by chance?

[ElNono]

I just did. Side effects include:

Anaphylaxis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaphylaxis)

Stevens–Johnson syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevens-Johnson_syndrome)

Toxic epidermal necrolysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_epidermal_necrolysis)

Cardiac arrhythmia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiac_arrhythmia)

Is it worth the chance of these side effects for a flue that is less sever than the annual flue outbreaks?

Is it possible your insurance company recognized the costs of treating these side effects if necessary?

For crying out loud you're dense. The doctor has the full clinical history, drug interaction with what she's already taking, we talked for over 30 minutes with him about what we were doing, where we were going and how long we were going for.
The pharmacist spent under 3 minutes talking with the insurance drone, who is not a doctor, does not have her clinical history, didn't know until we told him why the doctor wrote a prescription for 30 pills instead of 15, and yet refused to authorize more than half the prescription.
If they had any fears of side effects, they simply don't authorize anything at all.

It's amazing at which levels you try to reach to justify these guys. It's not really complicated. The insurance won't authorize more than half the prescription for this month and we have to deal with it.
And I don't give a shit what cost conscious reasons they have. If the Doc says I need X prescription, then I don't need to argue with anybody else.
The expert opinion is the one from the guy that went to Medical school and has a license to practice medicine. End of story.

[ElNono]

ElNono...

Did you even know there were that many possible serious side effects?

Why would anyone in their right mind take it for a minor flue they are unlikely to come in contact with?

Again, hypochondriac by chance?

Jeez... One more time. Let's see if it sinks in this time: I DON'T WRITE PRESCRIPTIONS. A DOCTOR DOES. WE WENT TO HIM FOR HIS OPINION AND HE WROTE THE PRESCRIPTION, BASED ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF OUR TRIP.

Can you get that into your head? If the doctor deemed that we didn't need anything, then we would be ok too.

[Wild Cobra]

For crying out loud you're dense. The doctor has the full clinical history, drug interaction with what she's already taking, we talked for over 30 minutes with him about what we were doing, where we were going and how long we were going for.
The pharmacist spent under 3 minutes talking with the insurance drone, who is not a doctor, does not have her clinical history, didn't know until we told him why the doctor wrote a prescription for 30 pills instead of 15, and yet refused to authorize more than half the prescription.
If they had any fears of side effects, they simply don't authorize anything at all.

It's amazing at which levels you try to reach to justify these guys. It's not really complicated. The insurance won't authorize more than half the prescription for this month and we have to deal with it.
And I don't give a shit what cost conscious reasons they have. If the Doc says I need X prescription, then I don't need to argue with anybody else.
The expert opinion is the one from the guy that went to Medical school and has a license to practice medicine. End of story.
A normal dosage is something like six days, 2 pills a day. It is normally not used for longer periods of time because of the side effects.

I didn't make those side effects up, and they are more serious than the flue you are afraid of. Granted, the chance is unlikely, but some of them can be fatal.

Rocheusa writeup on Tamiflu (23 page PDF) (http://www.rocheusa.com/products/tamiflu/pi.pdf)

[Wild Cobra]

Jeez... One more time. Let's see if it sinks in this time: I DON'T WRITE PRESCRIPTIONS. A DOCTOR DOES. WE WENT TO HIM FOR HIS OPINION AND HE WROTE THE PRESCRIPTION, BASED ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF OUR TRIP.

Can you get that into your head? If the doctor deemed that we didn't need anything, then we would be ok too.
I do understand. I think your doctor want you to remain his client, so he give you want you want instead of proper advice.

Please. Do some research on the side effects.

[ElNono]

A normal dosage is something like six days, 2 pills a day. It is normally not used for longer periods of time because of the side effects.

I didn't make those side effects up, and they are more serious than the flue you are afraid of. Granted, the chance is unlikely, but some of them can be fatal.

http:Rocheusa writeup on Tamiflu (23 page PDF) (http://www.rocheusa.com/products/tamiflu/pi.pdf)

We're going to be out for 35 days, and we're TWO persons. You do the math.
We have access to a doctor over there, but the doc here wanted to make sure we had access to the drug.

[Wild Cobra]

We're going to be out for 35 days, and we're TWO persons. You do the math.
We have access to a doctor over there, but the doc here wanted to make sure we had access to the drug.OK, remain ignorant. I just hope your wife doesn't go into Anaphylactic Shock while you're there.

[ElNono]

I do understand. I think your doctor want you to remain his client, so he give you want you want instead of proper advice.

Please. Do some research on the side effects.

This doctor is a 10 year old friend and partner on a medical business. It's nothing but in his best interests that I stay alive and healthy.
And I know of the side effects, and they're no different than most flu prescription medicines out there.

[ElNono]

OK, remain ignorant. I just hope your wife doesn't go into Anaphylactic Shock while you're there.

Please dude. I write medical systems for a living. We work with doctors every fucking day. One thing I know is that the doctor knows a lot better than either you or an insurance drone.

[chode_regulator]

I fail to see how your one instance of one doc in teh whole health care system of the entire united states constitutes a problem
Thats like saying because there is one bad judge in teh whole entire united states that the entire justice system if fucked up
or because we had one bad president, pick one, the presidency is a dumb idea

and why do people always feel a need to put useless, senseless jabs at mass groups of people?

[baseline bum]

I love how you fags always say Big Oil, Big Insurance, Big Tobacco, Big Pharmaceutical -- but I never hear anyone say Big Education, etc.

You must seriously be smoking rock cocaine if you think people here don't complain about the education industry, how college costs are through the roof due to things that have nothing to do with education, how textbook publishers rape the students, etc.

[ElNono]

I seem to recall boutons having a word or two about Ivy League schools...

[baseline bum]

Fucking WC is an expert on everything. Fuck the doctor, WC found some shit online.

[101A]

You must seriously be smoking rock cocaine if you think people here don't complain about the education industry, how college costs are through the roof due to things that have nothing to do with education, how textbook publishers rape the students, etc.

I don't think he was talking about colleges; there's (much) bigger education than that in this country.

[rjv]

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?showYear=2008&indexType=i

no 1 industry in lobbying for 2008: Pharmaceuticals/Health Products (http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/indusclient.php?lname=H04&year=2008)$236,022,031

no. 3 : Insurance (http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/indusclient.php?lname=F09&year=2008)$153,694,224

[Wild Cobra]

Please dude. I write medical systems for a living. We work with doctors every fucking day. One thing I know is that the doctor knows a lot better than either you or an insurance drone.
Fine then. You know that the swine flue is a political manufactured scare, that it is far less death rate than the annual flue season. Maybe I'm a ditz, but I just fail to understand how you are willing to take a chance on the more problematic side effects if your wife would be one of the unfortunate ones to get one of those serious ones I brought up.

Now I agree. I'm no medical expert. Didn't you say your wife has some kind of a chronic eye infection? Seems like that would radically increase the chances of either
Stevens–Johnson syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevens-Johnson_syndrome) or Toxic epidermal necrolysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_epidermal_necrolysis) to me. Has anyone in research history taken this drug that has your wife's condition? Maybe not either of the two, but something related, to do with the Sclera.

Bottom line for me is that I do not take manufactured drugs other than aspirin without a real good compelling reason. I don't even recall the last time I did. It was probably over 30 years ago excluding mandatory vaccinations when I was in the Army. I don't believe in tampering with my immune system.

I guess you and your wife have bought into a "better life through drugs."

[rjv]

WC has a point when it comes to the abuse of prescription medicine and otherwise healthty people should not get into the habit of popping an advil everytime someone gets a headache. but the intented application of medicine is twofold: preventative or treatment of an illness or set of symptoms.

the general thinking should be to use medicine only when necessary but there are many physicians who abuse prescriptions.

when it comes to the flu, vaccines can cause subluxations in the spine and thus effect the nervous system and, as a result, your immune system. but the CDC will often weigh the risks of an epidemic versus the risks of side effects (as is the case with medicine in general). when it came to the H1N1 virus the concern was the genetic make up of that strain of the flu. if this had been a virus similar to the H5N1 virus then we would have been facing a much more pathogenic strain. it has a reported mortality rate near 50% and if such a strain were to make it to the general population we would probably be best served in attempting to administer drugs such as oseltamivir as quickly as possible since the accounting would suggest risk is greater in failing to treat the virus with drugs.

of course, we put ourselves at risk in letting so much of the agricultural industry in the world go unchecked and unregulated (including the US).

by the way, the swine flu will be watched closely this flu season as it caught us towards the summer and as a result never really peaked (though it did spread through countries entering winter such as argentina) . a vaccination will probably be available this october.

[ElNono]

Yes, self-medication is a terrible thing. Couldn't agree more.
I'm fortunate enough that:

a) My wife is a Registered Nurse and works in a Hospital.
b) I work with doctors.

Which gives us pretty much unlimited access to them whenever we have a question/problem. We also never took or will take any kind of medicine unless diagnosed with an illness and indicated to do so by a professional. We like to ask second opinions too whenever something doesn't quite jive.

Unfortunately, not everyone is as lucky, and with all the armchair MDs getting their education from the internets instead of medical school, the problem is even worse.