Post Trade Production - FWIW

[Solid D]

Malik Rose NYK
G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
18 2 23.0 50-121 .413 1-5 .200 56-69 .812 1.40 3.40 4.80 .6 .56 .33 1.83 3.40 8.7

Per 48 Minutes
Points Reb. Blocks
18.2 10.1 0.695

Nazr Mohammed SAS
G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
16 0 14.5 30-82 .366 0-0 .000 22-40 .550 2.60 2.00 4.60 .4 .25 1.00 1.44 2.70 5.1

Per 48 Minutes
Points Reb. Blocks
16.97 15.3 3.3

[MannyIsGod]

The per 48 minutes stat is worthless.

But it's pretty much a wash according to those stats.

[Kori Ellis]

Both of them suck. Let's move on :)

[Solid D]

NBA List of Top 20 Per 48 Min. Rebounds
2004-05 Regular Season Rebounds Per 48 Minutes
Player G REB RP48
1. Reggie Evans (Seattle SuperSonics) 71 669 19.1
2. Dan Gadzuric (Milwaukee Bucks) 73 579 17.8
3. Kevin Garnett (Minnesota Timberwolves) 75 1,033 17.2
4. Dikembe Mutombo (Houston Rockets) 74 387 16.9
5. Tyson Chandler (Chicago Bulls) 73 701 16.7
6. Tim Duncan (San Antonio Spurs) 62 705 16.0
7. Ben Wallace (Detroit Pistons) 66 800 15.9
8. Joel Przybilla (Portland Trail Blazers) 69 531 15.8
9. Marcus Camby (Denver Nuggets) 61 612 15.6
10. Troy Murphy (Golden State Warriors) 63 690 15.4
11. Dwight Howard (Orlando Magic) 75 756 15.0
12. Shaquille O'Neal (Miami Heat) 70 740 14.8
13. Emeka Okafor (Charlotte Bobcats) 66 709 14.5
13. Drew Gooden (Cleveland Cavaliers) 74 687 14.5
15. Samuel Dalembert (Philadelphia 76ers) 64 477 14.4
16. Nazr Mohammed (San Antonio Spurs) 70 513 14.1
17. Shawn Marion (Phoenix Suns) 73 835 14.0
18. Kurt Thomas (New York Knicks) 72 750 13.9
19. Alan Henderson (Dallas Mavericks) 72 327 13.8
19. Chris Andersen (New Orleans Hornets) 67 410 13.8

[Solid D]

NBA List of Top 20 Per 48 Min. Points
2004-05 Regular Season Points Per 48 Minutes
Player G MIN PTS PP48
1. Allen Iverson (Philadelphia 76ers) 68 2,886 2,082 34.6
2. Amare Stoudemire (Phoenix Suns) 72 2,612 1,849 34.0
3. Dirk Nowitzki (Dallas Mavericks) 72 2,815 1,897 32.3
4. Shaquille O'Neal (Miami Heat) 70 2,407 1,611 32.1
5. Kobe Bryant (Los Angeles Lakers) 60 2,467 1,647 32.0
6. Vince Carter (New Jersey Nets) 71 2,589 1,674 31.0
7. LeBron James (Cleveland Cavaliers) 72 3,015 1,904 30.3
7. Dwyane Wade (Miami Heat) 71 2,757 1,741 30.3
9. Gilbert Arenas (Washington Wizards) 72 2,951 1,858 30.2
10. Tracy McGrady (Houston Rockets) 73 2,986 1,860 29.9
11. Ben Gordon (Chicago Bulls) 74 1,795 1,114 29.8
12. Tim Duncan (San Antonio Spurs) 62 2,109 1,294 29.5
13. Ray Allen (Seattle SuperSonics) 71 2,783 1,681 29.0
14. Michael Redd (Milwaukee Bucks) 70 2,679 1,609 28.8
14. Corey Maggette (Los Angeles Clippers) 65 2,400 1,440 28.8
16. Paul Pierce (Boston Celtics) 75 2,712 1,621 28.7
17. Yao Ming (Houston Rockets) 74 2,284 1,357 28.5
18. Kevin Garnett (Minnesota Timberwolves) 75 2,879 1,671 27.9
19. Carmelo Anthony (Denver Nuggets) 67 2,326 1,347 27.8
20. Jason Richardson (Golden State Warriors) 65 2,491 1,427 27.5

[whottt]

You should stay away from per 48 mins stats...they can lead you to concluding that Nazr doesn't suck ass...and that would be unfortunate.

[Solid D]

NBA List of Top 20 Per 48 Min. Blocks
2004-05 Regular Season Blocks Per 48 Minutes
Player G BLK BP48
1. Steven Hunter (Phoenix Suns) 68 94 4.83
2. Marcus Camby (Denver Nuggets) 61 180 4.60
3. Adonal Foyle (Golden State Warriors) 71 138 4.41
4. Joel Przybilla (Portland Trail Blazers) 69 136 4.05
5. Jerome James (Seattle SuperSonics) 72 97 3.86
6. Dikembe Mutombo (Houston Rockets) 74 88 3.83
7. Tim Duncan (San Antonio Spurs) 62 166 3.78
8. Shawn Bradley (Dallas Mavericks) 71 59 3.45
9. Josh Smith (Atlanta Hawks) 66 125 3.44
10. Chris Andersen (New Orleans Hornets) 67 100 3.36
11. Shaquille O'Neal (Miami Heat) 70 168 3.35
12. Samuel Dalembert (Philadelphia 76ers) 64 107 3.23
13. Ben Wallace (Detroit Pistons) 66 161 3.21
14. Rasho Nesterovic (San Antonio Spurs) 69 116 3.15
15. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Cleveland Cavaliers) 73 158 3.08
16. Dan Gadzuric (Milwaukee Bucks) 73 98 3.01
17. Yao Ming (Houston Rockets) 74 142 2.98
18. Tyson Chandler (Chicago Bulls) 73 122 2.91
19. Chris Mihm (Los Angeles Lakers) 71 106 2.88
20. Brendan Haywood (Washington Wizards) 64 104 2.85

[Solid D]

Just food for thought. Draw your own conclusions.

[whottt]

It's not a wash anyway...Malik's team has quit, their season is over...Nazr's hasn't...Nazr just sucks.

[baseline bum]

Minutes played is the most underrated stat in the NBA.

[picnroll]

So you're saying Malik quit?

[whottt]

No, I am saying Malik's team has quit...I don't think Malik has quit.

I never saw anything from Malik to indicate he was a quitter, did you?

I am pretty sure Malik is more miserable now than at any point in his entire career...

Unlike Nazr who seemed to be quite happy playing for the Knicks and sucking...

[Solid D]

Okay, I haven't posted any opinions up to this point but I did want to relay current production based on the opportunity given to each player.

I have not been pleased with Nazr's +/- when he's in there. Just by feel, it seems the Spurs lose the point margin differential advantage when Nazr is on the floor. Although Nazr's production is fairly good in points, rebounds and blocks, he misses assignments and is slow to help. It will take time for the Spurs' defensive system to become 2nd nature to Nazr, but then again...Pop said as much when they made the trade.

[picnroll]

No I didn't see anything to indicate Malik quit but I'm not the one saying Malik's stats are no better than Nazr's simply because his team's quit. I've watched parts of 5 games since Malik was trade, including when they were still not eliinated and Malik was not a difference maker.

[boutons]

Nazr didn't suck for the Knicks until the got hurt, plus coaching change. I do wonder where the Nazr of Nov/Dec went.

[whottt]

No I didn't see anything to indicate Malik quit but I'm not the one saying Malik's stats are no better than Nazr's simply because his team's quit. I've watched parts of 5 games since Malik was trade, including when they were still not eliinated and Malik was not a difference maker.

Then you haven't been listening to what his teamates are saying...

The Knicks are tanking...how many minutes did Malik even play in the 4th quarter tonight? I bet not many.

[whottt]

Okay, I haven't posted any opinions up to this point but I did want to relay current production based on the opportunity given to each player.

I have not been pleased with Nazr's +/- when he's in there. Just by feel, it seems the Spurs lose the point margin differential advantage when Nazr is on the floor. Although Nazr's production is fairly good in points, rebounds and blocks, he misses assignments and is slow to help. It will take time for the Spurs' defensive system to become 2nd nature to Nazr, but then again...Pop said as much when they made the trade.


Do you think we'd be better off right now...this season...with Malik instead of Nazr?

Pop also said the trade was for financial reasons BTW...which is why the debate over which one is better should long since be over....

And don't forget the two #1 picks we gave up for Nazr...low rounders? Maybe...but look at what RC has done in the low rounds....and are you certain he wanted to trade Malik for Nazr, I mean since Pop has admitted the trade was for financial reasons.

[picnroll]

I heard them talk the talk. How Malik was showing them what it takes to be a contender. I think that was right about the time thy went on a 7-8 or so game losing streak.

Don't know. Didn't watch tonights game. Knicks will be trying to unload Malik this summer I'll bet. God knows what bonehead deal Isiah will pull off to do it if he can.

[Solid D]

The trade effects won't be known for a year or two, as we've discussed before.

It was a money deal for next year and beyond, with a tertiary need for extra size in the post for the playoffs.

[picnroll]

Do I think the Sprs would be better wih Malik instead of Nazr? Marginally maybe. Not enough to make a difference title-wise.

I'm glad the Spurs unloaded his contract and hope/expect that will pay off this summer or next year by trade deadline time with Nazr's expiring contract.

[whottt]

I disagree....if we lose a series because we don't have HCA...then I think the argument could easily be made that the effects of the trade were felt this season...

Are you guys honestly saying that Malik would suck as bad as Nazr filling in for Duncan right now? It just isn't true. We are 2 games out of the 1 seed and Phoenix might want to rest their starters at some point too...and their schedule is not that easy...

The cost of this trade could be HCA throughout the playoffs...it could be HCA vs the Heat...out of all the teams we are likly to face in the playoffs the Heat are the team I think HCA could make the most difference...

[T Park]

if we cant beat teams on the road, you dont deserve to be champions period.

We beat teams on the road in 99 and 03.


Do it the right way, win on the road.

[MannyIsGod]

Do it the right way? On the road?

You aren't the worst poster, but you are the worst spin artist of all time.

[Experiment2100]

Do I think the Sprs would be better wih Malik instead of Nazr? Marginally maybe. Not enough to make a difference title-wise.


It would have led to an easier road through the Playoffs, but when this trade happened nobody knew Duncan would be out.

[picnroll]

With TD and Devin down and a worn down Manu I don't see any way the Spurs could beat out the Suns for the top seed in the West. If the Spurs get the two seed that's about as good as they could do with or without Malik.

Now if the Spurs totally collapse and Dallas beats them out for the SW conference title, then you could make a case where having Malik might have gotten a victory or two to hold off Dallas.

[whottt]

You don't see anyway now...

But I personally think we'd have had a hell of a lot better chance at beating the Knicks if we had Malik instead of them...if you don't want to acknowledge what Malik contributed to our team...acknowledge the fact that he was telling them all of our plays...Manu acknowledged it...From this perspective of losing like 8 in a row on the road you can say we can't catch Phoenix...but what about before the trade...would we have still lost a ton in a row on the road...would we have lost to the Knicks, Indy?\


Nazr has been a total non factor.....Malik might have been a non factor...but he also might have been a huge factor...he's played well in big road games in his career...

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Sean Marks is giving the spurs more effort than i've seen from malik rose in 2 years.

[Tek_XX]

Can't both of them suck, why must it be Malik vs. Nazzy

[picnroll]

We were in a dead heat with the Suns when TD and Devin went down. We have a substantially harder schedule to close out the year than the Suns do. are you telling me that without TD and Devin and with a dog tired Manu, just because Malik was around, we could have kept pace with the Suns?

Like I said Malik might have won us an extra game or two. That wouldn't beat out the Suns. Two seed is the Spurs fate unless they totally collapse.

Personally two seed is fine because the Spurs might then draw Sac or Houston, the two weakest Western teams. Meanwhile the Suns may get Memphis a team I'd rather skip.

[whottt]

Sean Marks is giving the spurs more effort than i've seen from malik rose in 2 years.

Malik had like 2 double doubles the week he was traded...when was the last time a big other than Duncan had a double double for us? It's more than just stats though...Malik knew our system on defense...Nazr does not.

Malik's career highs in scoring and rebounding(set last season with Duncan injured) are better than any other big on our team(except for a 40 point game by Horry last century)

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Malik had like 2 double doubles the week he was traded...when was the last time a big other than Duncan had a double double for us? It's more than just stats though...Malik knew our system on defense...Nazr does not.

Malik's career highs in scoring and rebounding(set last season with Duncan injured) are better than any other big on our team(except for a 40 point game by Horry last century)


Nazr was almost averaging a double double for new york before his injury, he had a game where he had 11 offensive rebounds this year, he had a game where he had 8 blocks this year.

IMHO Malik never played up to his contract, ever since he got his contract he tried to do things he wasnt capable of doing, sometimes even becoming a black hole on offense. So far Nazr hasn't played well, but we have Scola who seems to be basically the same type of player as malik coming in next year, and we have another big body to throw at shaq if the spurs and heat meet in the finals.

[ChumpDumper]

Maybe...but look at what RC has done in the low rounds.Kept two and traded the rest away.

[MI21]

IMHO Malik never played up to his contract, ever since he got his contract he tried to do things he wasnt capable of doing,

What about in 2002-2003?

People act as if the contract was signed after the championship season. It was before.

[SequSpur]

What ever happened to the Malik would average a triple double and start and make the hall of fame if he didn't play for Pop?

[whottt]

Kept two and traded the rest away.

I think RC has only traded one...I don't think he was the GM when we traded for Speedy...he traded a pick the year we were trying to sign Jason Kidd and needed every penny...He might have been the GM then though can't remember...but that doesn't mean it was his decision to trade them and not use them.

Actually both those picks were traded for Kidd space now that I think about it, because they had the option of renouncing Speedy and they did so......they didn't make those trades because we couldn't get talent at those positions, they did it to enable them to sign Jason Kidd...a fuckup if you will...and in fact talent was taken at those positions...and well beyond.

[ChumpDumper]

Well the salary number is just as big a concern as it was before -- and quite simply, we're full when it comes to projects and guys we'd like to keep.
...and well beyond.I'm all for getting more 2nd rounders. I like that crapshoot better than guaranteed low 1st round picks.

[whottt]

Would have been nice to have Josh Howard instead of Nazr Mohammed...

[ChumpDumper]

It would be nice to have Malik Rose @ $3 million a year.

What's your point?

[whottt]

My point is simple...we traded Josh Howard, Malik Rose, a 3 million dollar tradekicker and a #1 pick for Nazr Mohammed.

Will pass you the vaseline?

[zerocool2150]

I have a question. Why couldnt this trade have been made in the offseason?
It seems to me that Isaih was most interested in the 2 draft picks anyways and their contracts are still similar for next season (Nazr $5,500,000 Malik $6,008,750) .the difference being made up with some scrub player being thrown in the trade?. I don't know all the details but to me Malik would have been a bigger contributor for this season anyways than Nazr who was coming in injured and going to have to pickup the system and schemes on the fly. If it was just a financial decision on our side and a draft pick decision on the knicks side i dont see why it couldnt have waited until after the season.

[ChumpDumper]

I have a question. Why couldnt this trade have been made in the offseason?Zeke doesn't have the final say in whether trades go down; somehow he got the front office to sign off on this trade after they turned down a similar one last season. There's no telling if Zeke will even have a job next year.

[ChumpDumper]

we traded Josh HowardDid we work him out?

[zerocool2150]

Oh ok, thats true thanks. I guess the Spurs felt they had to pull the trigger or they wouldn't have any takers in the offseason. There ain't many Isaihs out there so yeah it makes more sense to do it then. I still wish Malik was here for this streatch run. Oh well

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Both of them suck. Let's move on :)


I always thought that you liked Malik's game

[whottt]

Zeke will have a job next year...why do you even question it?

He turned Nazr Mohammed into 2 #1 picks...even Nazr was surprised by that...Malik was just gravy and that contract is not a bad one to the Knicks.

You seem to think the Knicks are poor or something....they have a gobs of money and the only thing they don't like about the salary cap is that it prevents them from spending more of it....

Their fan base won't let them get under the cap to rebuild...they don't even want to get under the cap...it's not an edict from their owner...and you will never see it happen...that is not the way they will fix that team.

And draft picks have great value to them since it's the easiest way for them to upgrade talent.

[whottt]

Did we work him out?

No but the Spurs did want to draft him but elected to try and sign Kidd instead...so we traded our pick and what we got in return we traded for Nazr Mohammed. Yay

Oh well...at least Nazr made sure the pick we kept would be lower than the one we gave up for him...I guess Nazr has helped the team after all.

And after starting 0-2 on the road trip they(knicks) have been tanking it...Playoffs didn't work out so now they are cruising for a high lottery pick...and I believe they can use the pick they got from us to satisfy another trade they made.

[ChumpDumper]

No but the Spurs did want to draft himNever read that at all. I was all for using the pick and keeping Speedy. This still all stems from Malik's contract, which was a fait accompli at the time -- so I still fail to see the need for further bitching. Be happy the new CBA won't allow for such mistakes in the future.

[ChumpDumper]

And after starting 0-2 on the road trip they(knicks) have been tanking it.Nice spin. You said they were going to the finals. I'll be impressed if they keep Malik his whole contract.

[whottt]

$$$>Title

[ChumpDumper]

I simply realize it's a business.

Dumbasses don't.

[whottt]

Nice spin. You said they were going to the finals. I'll be impressed if they keep Malik his whole contract.

Hey they made their run but they were too far out of it...

They busted their butts to win that Seattle game but Ray Allen said no. Next night Portland and Pryzbilla did to them what they did to us...after that it was over.

Look at what they are doing....JYD playing 35 mins a game...Tim Thomas is not going to play any more this season...Malik plays but not very much in the 4th quarters....

Why in the hell wouldn't they be tanking it now?

Their need is a tough rebounding center....they didn't have one all season and that was their problem.

[whottt]

I simply realize it's a business.

Dumbasses don't.

Yeah and watch what happens to business when ownership starts squandering title opportunities stupidly...

Believe me...that's bad for business.

[ChumpDumper]

Their need is a tough rebounding center....they didn't have one all season and that was their problem.Their frontline starters were ranking #6 and around #20 for rebounds per game. Only the Pistons and Rockets could claim to have two top 20 rebounders on the same team as well. There are only 5 other centers who average more rebounds than Nazr did as a Knick.

They were trying to get Rasho for KThomas, how exactly was that going to net them more rebounds?

[picnroll]

A while ago Ludden wrote in an article that Pop wanted Howard but was overuled. If that's true put a gun to the head of whoever overuled and squeeze.

[ChumpDumper]

A while ago Ludden wrote in an article that Pop wanted Howard but was overuled.As I said, I never read that -- but it seems Pop had less faith in cap clearing than we were led to believe.

[wildbill2u]

Well the salary number is just as big a concern as it was before -- and quite simply, we're full when it comes to projects and guys we'd like to keep.I'm all for getting more 2nd rounders. I like that crapshoot better than guaranteed low 1st round picks.

The Spurs FO is perfectly willing to trade off the guaranteed salaries of low first round picks to richer (and stupider) teams like the Knicks. What do you suppose the Knicks will do with two low first round players with guaranteed contracts?

Traditionally, low first-rounders don't make much of a splash in the league if they make it at all. The Spurs real forte is picking up second round steals that have been overlooked or play in Europe and fitting them into the system at a price a small team market can afford.

[Solid D]

Traditionally, low first-rounders don't make much of a splash in the league if they make it at all. The Spurs real forte is picking up second round steals that have been overlooked or play in Europe and fitting them into the system at a price a small team market can afford.

Maybe Isaiah has purchased the Popiel's guaranteed, can't-lose Kevin Pritchard talent system.

[ChumpDumper]

What do you suppose the Knicks will do with two low first round players with guaranteed contracts? Package them in with the next trade or two.

[whottt]

Their frontline starters were ranking #6 and around #20 for rebounds per game. Only the Pistons and Rockets could claim to have two top 20 rebounders on the same team as well. There are only 5 other centers who average more rebounds than Nazr did as a Knick.

They were trying to get Rasho for KThomas, how exactly was that going to net them more rebounds?

I left out that they needed shotblocking too....

Those were Isiah's words not mine...he's the one that said he didn't have a Center, even before he traded Nazr...I guess he knew what he was talking about...kinda like he knew he didn't have a PG with Charlie Ward.

And as for the Rasho thing...they wanted Malik and Rasho...and the draft picks...and they had no intention of signing Nazr to a long term deal...


BTW, I'd take Rasho over Kurt Thomas any day of the week...Kurt is another guy that just puts up meaningless numbers...and doesnt' play D if he doesn't get to shoot.

[wildbill2u]

Yeah and watch what happens to business when ownership starts squandering title opportunities stupidly...

Believe me...that's bad for business.

Squandering title opportunities stupidly? I guess you mean not protecting Tim Duncan's ankle better--because any title hopes we have depend on TD, not Malik or Nasr. We're dog meat if TD can't play up to snuff or if he reinjures the ankle, God forbid!

Anyone who thinks we could win the NBA championship without TD if we only could reverse the Malik-NASR trade is smoking some really good shit.
:smokin

Conversely, I don't think Malik would make THE difference on our tean's chances if TD and the rest of the team play well. The 10-12 player on the bench seldom does.

[whottt]

Squandering title opportunities stupidly? I guess you mean not protecting Tim Duncan's ankle better--because any title hopes we have depend on TD, not Malik or Nasr. We're dog meat if TD can't play up to snuff or if he reinjures the ankle, God forbid!

Anyone who thinks we could win the NBA championship without TD if we only could reverse the Malik-NASR trade is smoking some really good shit.
:smokin

Conversely, I don't think Malik would make THE difference on our tean's chances if TD and the rest of the team play well. The 10-12 player on the bench seldom does.

http://www.nba.com/games/20030521/DALSAS/boxscore.html

[wildbill2u]

Package them in with the next trade or two.

Exactly: Everyone is looking for the last sucker in line to dump off those picks with their guaranteed contracts. But the line of suckers gets shorter after Isaiah, doesn't it?

[ChumpDumper]

I left out that they needed shotblocking too....But that doesn't explain the rebounding at all.

[wildbill2u]

http://www.nba.com/games/20030521/DALSAS/boxscore.html

hey, single game box scores don't count. I could pick out several single games where Malik sucked for the Knicks while getting a lot more playing time to build a better average. But someone already posted the cumulative totals that show there isn't much to choose between them-- other than we all like Malik as a person a lot better than the new guy.

Malik Rose NYK
G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
18 2 23.0 50-121 .413 1-5 .200 56-69 .812 1.40 3.40 4.80 .6 .56 .33 1.83 3.40 8.7

Per 48 Minutes
Points Reb. Blocks
18.2 10.1 0.695

Nazr Mohammed SAS
G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
16 0 14.5 30-82 .366 0-0 .000 22-40 .550 2.60 2.00 4.60 .4 .25 1.00 1.44 2.70 5.1

Per 48 Minutes
Points Reb. Blocks
16.97 15.3 3.3

[whottt]

That was a playoff game where we were down 0-1 on our own home court...

Don't tell me Rasho will do that...because that would be Rasho's career high...

And I can post some more boxscores from last season when Duncan was injured where Malik was putting up better numbers than any big currently on our team...we even beat a couple of bad teams on the road...ahh those were the days.

[whottt]

But that doesn't explain the rebounding at all.

Watch many Spurs games lately?

And IIRC you were the guy telling me that Marks couldn't get 8 rebounds in 13 minutes or something like that...do I need to find that link?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Then you haven't been listening to what his teamates are saying...

The Knicks are tanking...how many minutes did Malik even play in the 4th quarter tonight? I bet not many.

So what exactly does it say if the Knicks players are saying how Malik is teaching them how to compete but then they go out and lay an egg every night? :lol

I've been surprised at Malik's stats since going to NY. Honestly I expected him to get back to when he was really productive with having a lot of minutes. But he's getting 25 minutes a night and still not doing much with it.

[ChumpDumper]

Watch many Spurs games lately? Nice attempt at deflection we're talking about the Knicks and their rebounding.

Do you want the link where you saidf the Knicks are going to the finals? That Maliks rebounding was going to go way up?

[whottt]

Nice attempt at deflection we're talking about the Knicks and their rebounding.

Yeah...and their "rebounding" is now on our bench sucking...

You are the stupid one because you think Isiah thought he was going to get the C he needs from the Spurs...I want you to show me where he said that....




Do you want the link where you saidf the Knicks are going to the finals? That Maliks rebounding was going to go way up?

Yes I would like those links...and then I'd like you to post Malik and Nazr's current stats...while you're at it. I believe you'll find those quotes where I said Nazr's would go down...and I think I was also talking PPG as well.

Please...dig them up...it'll save me the effort.

[whottt]

So what exactly does it say if the Knicks players are saying how Malik is teaching them how to compete but then they go out and lay an egg every night? :lol

I've been surprised at Malik's stats since going to NY. Honestly I expected him to get back to when he was really productive with having a lot of minutes. But he's getting 25 minutes a night and still not doing much with it.

He's not?

He's had games of 15 and 11

15 and 9

18 and 9

That's in the past week and a half...

Off the bench....

Nah that's garbage compared to what we're getting lately...

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah...and their "rebounding" is now on our bench sucking...Only because you are trying to change the subject.
You are the stupid one because you think Isiah thought he was going to get the C he needs from the Spurs...I want you to show me where he said that....It's common knowledge he also tried to get Rasho for KThomas at the time of the Rose trade. Are you denying this?

[ChumpDumper]

15 and 9 When was that one?

[whottt]

I'd try and get Rasho for Kurt Thomas too...and if I was the Spurs I wouldn't want to do it...what's your point?

How does that prove he thinks Rasho is the C he needs? That just proves he thinks Rasho can anchor a D better than Thomas(he's right) and he can do it without whining about not getting any shots...

[ChumpDumper]

How does that prove he thinks Rasho is the C he needs?How does it not?

[whottt]

When was that one?

LMAO...ok so 8-8 or something like that...Which is still better than anything Nazr has given us lately.

Meanwhile...still waiting on that link :)

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

He's also had games of 5 and 4, 2 and 4, but hey give him credit - he's making the most of garbage time in those games you mentioned.

[whottt]

Exactly how much are you expecting him to score on 6 or 7 shots Aggie?

I suppose you think Nazr is doing better? C'mon tell me that...and take the titty out of Nazr's mouth because Malik dosn't have Tim Duncan either.

News flash...fucking Nazr got less minutes in our last game than a motherfucker who plays no D and was playing in his second game(in back to back no less)in a year...

You think there are going to be more minutes available when Duncan comes back?

[whottt]

How does it not?

WTF do you mean how does it not?

Isiah's not the dumbass that thinks Nazr is a franchise C...what makes you think he doesn't realize what Rasho is as well? He realized what Charlie Ward was...

Rasho is a better deal than Thomas...all him wanting Rasho proves is that he wanted to totally screw us instead of just partially...

[whottt]

Hurry up Chump! Search those archives!

[ChumpDumper]

I gave you one to look for too.

[whottt]

In conclusion....

Rose>Nazr

We'd be better off with Rose now...and Isiah isn't nearly as stupid as you guys want to believe.

Thank you.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I love it, we were down 30 and you're trying to hold up an offensive guy like Glenn Robinson as validation :lol

[ChumpDumper]

WTF do you mean how does it not? It disproves nothing. What part of that do you not understand?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

In conclusion....

Rose>Nazr


You failed math didn't you?



We'd be better off with Rose now...

No we wouldn't, he still wouldn't be able to help us when it matters (the post-season).


and Isiah isn't nearly as stupid as you guys want to believe.

Toronto
Indiana
CBA

Next.

[ChumpDumper]

In conclusion....Rose was crimanally overpaid for what he was doing and the Spurs didn't want to put up with 4 more years of his being beat out by every minimum-salary old fart we signed.
We'd be better off with Rose now.And the NBA is a business.
and Isiah isn't nearly as stupid as you guys want to believe. The record speaks for itself.

[whottt]

I love it, we were down 30 and you're trying to hold up an offensive guy like Glenn Robinson as validation :lol

I love it...you think Nazr needs rest or something and that's why he didn't get any minutes even in a blowout....hilarious.

I guess you think Nazr's got the whole system figured out now and is being rested for the playoffs.

Newsflash...Nazr didn't play in the first half of that game either....Nazr didn't even get into the game until we were down by 30(or was it 40).

[whottt]

Rose was crimanally overpaid for what he was doing and the Spurs didn't want to put up with 4 more years of his being beat out by every minimum-salary old fart we signed.

And we criminally overpaid for Nazr...while fucking with our title chances...





And the NBA is a business.

And the business is winning titles....



The record speaks for itself.

Yeap it does...Isiah 2 Spurs 0

Oh wait...you suddenly discover the ability to look into the past when you think it suits you?

[ChumpDumper]

And we criminally overpaid for Nazr.for only one more year...
while fucking with our title chances.You still pick the Spurs to win.
And the business is winning titles....Nope, unfortunately.
Yeap it does...Isiah 2 Spurs 0Wake me when he wins a championship as GM.
Oh wait...you suddenly discover the ability to look into the past when you think it suits you?No more than you.

[whottt]

Aggie...next time make sure you have been paying attention and maybe...oh, I dunno, seen a game, before you stay in the Nazr wagon.

Honestly if Nazr goes for 10 and 10...even in a loss...I'll be the happiest guy on this board...I don't expect him to not suck...I'd just be satisfied with some meaningless numbers...

Please!!!!!!

[whottt]

for only one more year...
Great...I hope it ends up being worth it.



You still pick the Spurs to win.

Not because of this damn trade...that's for sure.

I actually feel better since we signed Robinson...that offset the loss...because even if this guy doesn't play D he at least doesn't have his head up his butt.



Nope, unfortunately.

If the business isn't winning titles then what's the point of paying Parker, Manu and Duncan all that money?



Wake me when he wins a championship as GM.

Yawn....let's see...he's been the GM of an expansion team...and he took over the worst mess in the NBA in the Knicks...You think Pop or RC would have the Knicks contending for a championship?

I'd just be happy if they had us contending to win a fucking game on the road without Tim Duncan.



No more than you.

Great...then this time around use your hindsight to look at his drafts and trades...and tell me what you see that makes you think he doesn't know talent...And no, the absence of Duncan or Garnett on his drafting list does not mean he doesn't know it.

[ChumpDumper]

Great...I hope it ends up being worth it.If not he's gone much sooner than Malik, who wasn't getting any better.
Not because of this damn trade...that's for sure. So? You still think they'll win it all, which is all you care about.
If the business isn't winning titles then what's the point of paying Parker, Manu and Duncan all that money?You'll remember there was much discussion over how much to pay the first two, regardless of titles. That's reality. Why live in denial of reality?
Yawn....let's see...he's been the GM of an expansion team...and he took over the worst mess in the NBA in the Knicks...You think Pop or RC would have the Knicks contending for a championship?I doubt they would've made the trades Zeke did that have them going backwards this season.
I'd just happy if they had us contending to win a fucking game on the road without Tim Duncan.I blame our guards more than anything, but sure Rose could've meant one or two wins.
Great...then this time around use your hindsight to look at his drafts and trades...and tell me what you see that makes you think he doesn't know talent...And no, the absence of Duncan or Garnett on his drafting list does not mean he doesn't know it.Are they winning more? Good three picks or so. Mazeltov. Try to win more games now.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Are you illiterate whott?

I have been disappointed with Nazr's play since he got here. I think about everyone we've signed under Pop has taken the better part of a year to figure out our defense. Hell, Malik had 6 years, can't you at least give Nazr one off-season?

I doubt he'll contribute in the playoffs this year, outside of contributing his six fouls inside when needed.

But to pretend Malik would be any different is assenine. He couldn't beat out Massenberg or Horry, that says more about him and his play than anyone ever could.


Rose was crimanally overpaid for what he was doing and the Spurs didn't want to put up with 4 more years of his being beat out by every minimum-salary old fart we signed.

A-fucking-men.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm going to stay out of this except for one thing.

The NBA is most certainly not a business of winning titles. It's a business of pushing your product just like anything else.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Anyone who trades away their starting center who was averaging 10 and 8 for essentially Malik Rose and Maurice Taylor cannot be associated with an "eye for talent."

Sorry.

[picnroll]

Whottt defending Isiah as a GM, spiraling into insanity.