Spurs vs lakers; closing five strengths/weaknesses

[The_Worlds_finest]

Cant really wait for the playoffs so lets put some observations together;
Lakers closing five will probably be
Fisher/Bryant/Artest/Odom/Gasol vs parker/manu/jefferson/duncan/dyess

what do you guys see in each line up.

[spursfaninla]

who would be instead? Don't tell me bonner.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Fisher is a huge defensive weak link in that Lakers line up and Parker is a big plus for the Spurs. Kobe and Artest don't have the speed to hang with Parker, and Fisher can't keep Parker, Ginobili, or Jefferson in front of him. Duncan and Dyess make for a more physical pair than Odom and Gasol.

Meanwhile the Spurs lack anyone that could be called a Kobe stopper. And in the event that the Lakers decided to go away from Kobe down the stretch Tim and McDyess' lack of lateral quickness on their rickety knees becomes a concern. Odom and Gasol both have the offensive skill set to cause problems. They can shoot well enough that they can draw a big away from the paint, and possibly put the ball on the floor if they are able to their man far enough out.

[spursparker9]

duncan, jefferson, manu, parker, mason

[2Cleva]

LA would put Fisher on Jefferson with Kobe on Parker late. Dare SA to run their offense through Jefferson for the win.

On the other end, no one for SA can stop anyone for the Lakers. It will be the death of SA in every matchup.

[2Cleva]

I take that back - it was overstating things.

If its one-on-one play, Duncan would give Pau fits if Pau was trying to run at him. But LA doesn't play that way.

It will be Kobe pick and roll with Pau - Artest and Fisher spotting up and LO ready to slash to the basket. Good luck Spurs, especially with no shot blockers besides Duncan and he will need to stay on Pau.

On the flip side, Pop needs to come up with some new tricks because every 4th quarter, Phil's teams have Duncan looking like Kwame Brown, Parker standing out on the perimeter and watching, and Ginobili out of gas. Every game its the same way. Even the game SA won last year it was due to other players stepping up and Fisher being stupid.

Is Jefferson really going to be the closer to knock LA out?

[ceperez]

I take that back - it was overstating things.

If its one-on-one play, Duncan would give Pau fits if Pau was trying to run at him. But LA doesn't play that way.

It will be Kobe pick and roll with Pau - Artest and Fisher spotting up and LO ready to slash to the basket. Good luck Spurs, especially with no shot blockers besides Duncan and he will need to stay on Pau.

On the flip side, Pop needs to come up with some new tricks because every 4th quarter, Phil's teams have Duncan looking like Kwame Brown, Parker standing out on the perimeter and watching, and Ginobili out of gas. Every game its the same way. Even the game SA won last year it was due to other players stepping up and Fisher being stupid.

Is Jefferson really going to be the closer to knock LA out?

The Spurs biggest problem last year was when Trevor Ariza was on Tony Parker. Now that he's gone and with RJ, we'll have a better chance offensively than last year.

One key to beating LA to get Kobe tired by the 4th quarter. All the great finishers know how to pace themselves for the final kick in the end. RJ being a legitimate offensive threat will force Kobe to work harder. Against Boston, Kobe had to work overtime while covering Pierce. With our backcourt of Parker, Manu and RJ there's little chance than Kobe can relax.

It's necessary however that the pressure is there for the entire game. That's why our bench has to maul LA's bench. That hopefully is the weak link. Against Orlando, LA rarely played any bench players other than their guards (Farmar and Brown). Guys like Vujacic and Walton are too slow to be effective in playoff basketball just like Mason and Bonner are too slow.

What the Spurs needs is for guys like Hill, Blair, Haislip and Mahinmi to give them fits just like Powe, House, Posey gave them trouble.

LA can be beat, Boston showed us how. A defensive physical grind it out game is exactly what the Spurs are known for.

[dbestpro]

So how crazy will you get if manu, tim, jefferson and mcD are on the floor with Parker and Tony dribbles the ball for 15 seconds before he passes it?

[2Cleva]

The Spurs biggest problem last year was when Trevor Ariza was on Tony Parker. Now that he's gone and with RJ, we'll have a better chance offensively than last year.

LA has had TP on lock in the 4th for a long while. Kobe will take that role in the 4th this season.


One key to beating LA to get Kobe tired by the 4th quarter. All the great finishers know how to pace themselves for the final kick in the end. RJ being a legitimate offensive threat will force Kobe to work harder. Against Boston, Kobe had to work overtime while covering Pierce. With our backcourt of Parker, Manu and RJ there's little chance than Kobe can relax.

Agreed but RJ isn't the type of threat that puts constant pressure and I doubt SA changes their style to do it.


It's necessary however that the pressure is there for the entire game. That's why our bench has to maul LA's bench. That hopefully is the weak link. Against Orlando, LA rarely played any bench players other than their guards (Farmar and Brown). Guys like Vujacic and Walton are too slow to be effective in playoff basketball just like Mason and Bonner are too slow.

Don't forget Odom off the bench for LA. LA's bench is plenty strong enough.


What the Spurs needs is for guys like Hill, Blair, Haislip and Mahinmi to give them fits just like Powe, House, Posey gave them trouble.

True, but none of those guys have proven anything in the NBA.


LA can be beat, Boston showed us how. A defensive physical grind it out game is exactly what the Spurs are known for.

They used to be known for that. That defensive identity is gone. Besides Duncan, who for SA is an above average defender?

[galvatron3000]

let's see how the Spurs play first, we need to see if Manu is the same or just a spot up shooter, if the new guys will gel with the vets and is the team defense is consistentlt good all year. Lakers added Artest so they have pretty much the same team with another offensive weapon

[ceperez]

Don't forget Odom off the bench for LA. LA's bench is plenty strong enough.

LA Depth Chart:

Point Guard Derek Fisher Jordan Farmar
Shooting Guard Kobe Bryant Sasha Vujacic Shannon Brown
Small Forward Ron Artest Luke Walton Adam Morrison
Power Forward Pau Gasol Lamar Odom Josh Powell
Center Andrew Bynum D.J. Mbenga

SA Depth Chart:

Point Guard Tony Parker George Hill
Shooting Guard Roger Mason Manu Ginobili Malik Hairston
Small Forward Richard Jefferson Michael Finley Marcus Williams
Power Forward Antonio McDyess Matt Bonner DeJuan Blair Marcus Haislip
Center Tim Duncan Theo Ratliff Ian Mahinmi


Hmmm... let's put DeJuan Blair on Odom and let's see how Odom feels playing physical.

Definitely going to be fun to watch!

[cabass88]

LA Depth Chart:

Point Guard Derek Fisher Jordan Farmar
Shooting Guard Kobe Bryant Sasha Vujacic Shannon Brown
Small Forward Ron Artest Luke Walton Adam Morrison
Power Forward Pau Gasol Lamar Odom Josh Powell
Center Andrew Bynum D.J. Mbenga

SA Depth Chart:

Point Guard Tony Parker George Hill
Shooting Guard Roger Mason Manu Ginobili Malik Hairston
Small Forward Richard Jefferson Michael Finley Marcus Williams
Power Forward Antonio McDyess Matt Bonner DeJuan Blair Marcus Haislip
Center Tim Duncan Theo Ratliff Ian Mahinmi







Odom vs blair will be awesome! And so will be Kobeon Parker which will be a joke


Hmmm... let's put DeJuan Blair on Odom and let's see how Odom feels playing physical.

Definitely going to be fun to watch!

[DPG21920]

I hope Kobe guards Parker. Parker will still give him trouble. It might be tough in certain situations, but overall, Kobe will not be effective guarding a guy like Parker. Having a guy like Ariza who could guard quicker players really allowed Kobe to take breaks defensively. Now that he is gone and Ron cannot guard those guys, Kobe will have to the entire game. Then who guards Gino? Artest? Ginobili will murder Artest on the perimeter.

Switching Fisher onto RJ. That is a losing proposition. RJ, although he has his short comings is too athletic still and has too much range for Fisher to do well. Fisher is pretty solid in the low block, even against guys bigger than him, but I doubt he can handle RJ.

I think that is a bad strategy for the Lakers. I think you will see more traditional line ups defensively: Fisher on Parker, Kobe on Manu and Artest on RJ. Then you rely on the better match ups and funneling into the length of Bynum/Pau.

[Dr Cox]

should be interesting, i dont think RJ is good enough on D to gaurd anyone but artest or fisher, the problem is gaurding odom, kobe is gunna get his, odom is the x factor for me

[ceperez]

should be interesting, i dont think RJ is good enough on D to gaurd anyone but artest or fisher, the problem is gaurding odom, kobe is gunna get his, odom is the x factor for me

Well that's what bothers me about the offseason, rather than go after RJ, we could have gone after Odom.

A very dangerous strategy, but if successful it would change the balance.

[DPG21920]

Well that's what bothers me about the offseason, rather than go after RJ, we could have gone after Odom.

A very dangerous strategy, but if successful it would change the balance.

How could the Spurs have gone after Odom?

[iggypop123]

i dont think you factored in foul trouble

[SA210]

Cant really wait for the playoffs so lets put some observations together;
Lakers closing five will probably be
Fisher/Bryant/Artest/Odom/Gasol vs parker/manu/jefferson/duncan/dyess

what do you guys see in each line up.

I see us getting torched without Bruce Bowen, period.

[spursfaninla]

if we had to depend on a retirement-aged bruce bowen to defend kobe for extended minutes in the playoffs, we were going to lose anyway.

RJ was a good defender before he had to become the 1st option, he will become a good defender again.

I LOVE bruce, I wish he could still play, but he just can't. Perimeter players just can not play after 36...they lose too much quickness.

btw, the only exceptions that I can think of, Nash and kidd, never were great defenders, so I guess it does not matter as much for them. Their game is predicated on passing skills, which do not deteriorate...

[My Fault]

Kobe is great but is not gonna keep TP9 in front of him.

[Spursfan 87]

Lets not forget about Marcus Haislip, this guy was brought here for a reason, to match up against Odom and Dirk.

These two teams are so evenly matchup (on paper) that I think a guy like that, a wildcard can make all the difference in the world.

[turiaf for president]

you guys that say TP cant be guarded by anyone, whos going to guard kobe? id take the kobe mismatch over the TP mismatch any day. with TP just give him space until he makes his jumper. if his jumper falls then the lakers have no answer. but with kobe, its pick your poison. and whos going to guard odom? dyess is too slow, jefferson is too short, finley is both short and old. if pau and bynums on the court, duncan can take one but dyess and bonner are too short to contest bynum or gasol's shot.

i think both teams have mismatches but the lakers have a better chance at countering than the spurs. just my opinion

[SA210]

I see us getting torched without Bruce Bowen, period.

[024]

celtics never really had spectacular defenders and they held down bryant just fine. they had an above average defender in posey but he didn't see starter minutes, with the celtics opting for allen and pierce. spurs just need to play team defense and have a pair of solid defenders to throw at bryant.

[2Cleva]

celtics never really had spectacular defenders and they held down bryant just fine. they had an above average defender in posey but he didn't see starter minutes, with the celtics opting for allen and pierce. spurs just need to play team defense and have a pair of solid defenders to throw at bryant.

Boston's scheme was to zone up behind Kobe with the tough defender on him. Add with Bos manhandling LA physically - plus the Lakers relying on guys like Radmanovic, Vujacic, Walton and LO before he found his playoff heart and voila' - it looks easy to do.

But LA tore up that D last year when they faced it with better offensive execution. Now - they not only know the tri but have better weapons around Kobe. Most importantly - LA is full of 2-way guys, instead of just offensive or defensive only guys.

If any team wants a real shot at defending Kobe they are going to have to trade for Shane Battier. He is the lone guy who can consistently keep Kobe on the perimeter and still challenge his shot. No other scheme or player can really bother him at the level he's at now.

[Muser]

We got torched with Bowen in 08, so that point is invalid.

[2Cleva]

We got torched with Bowen in 08, so that point is invalid.

Bowen was done in 08.

[Muser]

Bowen was done in 08.

I was responding to someones claim of without Bowen we won't beat L.A.

[Supergirl]

Lakers v.s Spurs match up

Starters:
Parker v.s Fisher - easily the Spurs' edge

Kobe v.s. Manu - Kobe obviously has the edge one-on-one, esp without a Bowen-like defender on him.

Duncan v.s. Gasol - Duncan has the edge, because he's more reliable and sound, whereas Gasol is a weak defender. But they're pretty equal.

McDyess/Blair v.s. Bynum - It could come down to the newbies more than anything else - Bynum versus Blair. And that would be a fun matchup. Hard to say who would win it, they're both still really unknown quanities. We've never seen Blair play in the NBA and Bynum has yet to play a full season. McDyess should give Bynum a lot of trouble, though.

Odom v.s. Jefferson - Equal. They're both very different players. Jefferson is longer and will be a tough cover for Odom, Odom is stronger and will be a tough cover for Jefferson. So they should cancel each other out.

Bench:
On paper the Spurs bench is currently better than the Lakers bench, I think. We've got a solid back up PG (Hill), some muscle and rebounding (Haislip, Hairston), some three point shooting (Bonner, Finley), but the Lakers bench performed well last season so it would be crazy to rule them out. However, I think they performed above their usual capabilities (any one can have one season - See exhibit A: Jaren Jackson).

All in all, I think it is pretty close and will come down to health and injuries. Cavs, Celtics, and Magic all match up pretty well with the Spurs too.

[2Cleva]

I was responding to someones claim of without Bowen we won't beat L.A.

Gotcha. My bad.

[ohmwrecker]

Defending Kobe is not just about who can do the job one on one, but making Kobe work on the other end. Kobe's offense always takes a hit if he is defending a good offensive player.

[Supergirl]

Defending Kobe is not just about who can do the job one on one, but making Kobe work on the other end. Kobe's offense always takes a hit if he is defending a good offensive player.

this is true. but even with a 100% healthy Manu (have we ever seen such a thing? LOL) Kobe still gets the edge.

[2Cleva]

Kobe doesn't get slowed down guarding perimeter threats, its moreso the guys who go into the post.

He also doesn't have to be the fireman - guarding whoever is hot, now that Artest is here. He's not going to slow down when he's focused on just guarding one guy for the game.

[kace]

without Bruce, we have to hope that RJ will be great in defense, because he's the only one i can see able to slow down Kobe. Kobe is too good for our others players.

but since RJ could be also the only one able/strong enough to defend Artest, we could have problems without Bruce with Kobe and Artest on the court at the same time.

the spurs will also be one of the few teams, like LA, able to have two great offensive players on the wings with manu and RJ, and even good backups with mase and fin. but LA, with Kobe and Artest, has the ability to defend that kind of combo.

[antgomez2009]

The Spurs biggest problem last year was when Trevor Ariza was on Tony Parker. Now that he's gone and with RJ, we'll have a better chance offensively than last year.

One key to beating LA to get Kobe tired by the 4th quarter. All the great finishers know how to pace themselves for the final kick in the end. RJ being a legitimate offensive threat will force Kobe to work harder. Against Boston, Kobe had to work overtime while covering Pierce. With our backcourt of Parker, Manu and RJ there's little chance than Kobe can relax.

It's necessary however that the pressure is there for the entire game. That's why our bench has to maul LA's bench. That hopefully is the weak link. Against Orlando, LA rarely played any bench players other than their guards (Farmar and Brown). Guys like Vujacic and Walton are too slow to be effective in playoff basketball just like Mason and Bonner are too slow.

What the Spurs needs is for guys like Hill, Blair, Haislip and Mahinmi to give them fits just like Powe, House, Posey gave them trouble.

LA can be beat, Boston showed us how. A defensive physical grind it out game is exactly what the Spurs are known for.



Yea, i felt like Trevor Ariza long athletic body really bothered TP late in the 4th, I dont think Kobe is quick enough to guard Tony Parker Late, especially in Pick n Roll! Artest wont be able to guard Tony, he'll match up better with Rj, Manu vs Kobe, Duncan vs. Pau and either Ian/Blair/Ratliff/Dyess will guard either LO or Bynum, chances are it will be Odom late!

But the Spurs have guys that played last year either starting or coming off the bench and relied to much on them like bonner, finley, Mason and Hill. This year, that wont be the case you'll see them as second or third back ups! which is scary, because thats pretty dam deep!


All in all, late in the 4th tied up ball is on whoevers side...i think the Closing five for each team will be this with their matchups!
Potential matchups, depends if going small or big is helping either team! and if they need defense or offense in the closing seconds.!!

Spurs

Tony ------Derek Fisher/Brown/Farmer
Manu ------ Kobe Bryant
Jefferson ---- Artest
Blair / Dyess - Lamar odom / Bynum
Duncan --Gasol /Bynum

Lakers

Derek Fisher ---Tony/Hill
Kobe ----Rj
Artest ---- Manu / Finley
LO/Gasol ----Duncan/Blair/Dyess
Gasol/Bynum----Duncan/Dyess/Blair


its going to be a great year!!!

[SonOfAGun]

I'm a hardcore pessimist and I am extremely confident about this year.

[2Cleva]

Being that many Spurs supporters felt last year was theirs because it was an odd-year, shouldn't you guys be talking "next year" already?

[urunobili]

Being that many Spurs supporters felt last year was theirs because it was an odd-year, shouldn't you guys be talking "next year" already?

:lol at my son trying to smack talk old style... you should try something new... :sleep

[2Cleva]

:lol at my son trying to smack talk old style... you should try something new... :sleep

I'm always a fan of the classics.

If I'm SA - I continue the all-out approach and go for one more move. With so many guys available for the vet min, that 9.5 combined last year's of Mason, Bonner, and Finley would be used to get something done.

And it has to be something inside.

If he's back to his Chicago days as his weight loss suggests, Eddy Curry is a guy SA has had interest in before. Not going to bring it on D but he gives SA an option in the post that can attack Bynum/Gasol/Odom. Right now, the Laker bigs are really going to be relaxing and protecting the basket because only Duncan can make any of them work.

[portnoy1]

I was responding to someones claim of without Bowen we won't beat L.A.
Bowen did a decent enough job. What happened was when IME came in Bryant went at him and got hot. Then after a quick 10pt torching of Udoka, Bowen had to guard a Hot Younger Kobe Bryant.

[portnoy1]

I think the spurs still need a 7 footer who can block shots and a perimeter defender. Dahntay Jones or Shane Battier. Jones is physical guard and battier wont touch you and still make you miss.

[DPG21920]

You have to let Kobe go Amare on you. Let him get his, but you stick to the other guys and rebound.

[SA210]

We need Bruce back.

[SpurCharger]

You have to let Kobe go Amare on you. Let him get his, but you stick to the other guys and rebound.
Agreed, Im Ok With Kobe gettin 40 points..... When the Lakers are at there best Is when Everyone Is gettin Involved.... Guard Kobe One On One, And stay home On the Laker Shooters....

[21_Blessings]

LA would put Fisher on Jefferson with Kobe on Parker late.

.

No, that would never happen. Are you joking? Fisher on a 6'7 RJ? Haha.

Kobe would be guarding Manu - which is SA's most dangerous crunch player anyways. Artest has struggled guarding him in the past. Artest matches up with RJ quite well, physically speaking.

Only way Kobe would be on TP is if Sasha or Brown was in the game. They have the height to guard to Manu.

[DPG21920]

Also, lol at Battier as the Kobe defender. Kobe lit up Shane almost as bad as anyone (Ron Ron got lit up by him a little worse maybe.)

[21_Blessings]

Bell slowing down Kobe? No, not at all.

Tay prince has the best Kobe track record. But when Kobe is feeling it, it won't matter who is guarding him.

You don't slow down Kobe with one player. You need an entire team effort focused on stopping him. Which is what we saw in 04/08 finals. And that only works when Kobe's supporting cast doesn't show up

[Man In Black]

Being that many Spurs supporters felt last year was theirs because it was an odd-year, shouldn't you guys be talking "next year" already?No, what we're talking about is the following:
1 for the thumb.
Should SAS meet LAL in the playoffs, being the 1st team to stop PJax from repeating.
An Even Year Title.

[ezau]

you guys that say TP cant be guarded by anyone, whos going to guard kobe? id take the kobe mismatch over the TP mismatch any day. with TP just give him space until he makes his jumper. if his jumper falls then the lakers have no answer. but with kobe, its pick your poison. and whos going to guard odom? dyess is too slow, jefferson is too short, finley is both short and old. if pau and bynums on the court, duncan can take one but dyess and bonner are too short to contest bynum or gasol's shot.

i think both teams have mismatches but the lakers have a better chance at countering than the spurs. just my opinion

Blair is gonna rough up that pussy named Odom

[SA210]

The only players I have seen slow Kobe down CONSISTENTLY were Bowen

[mystargtr34]

That was about 3 years ago though.

[spursfan1000]

I'm thinking that Mcdyess will be there in the clutch moments. Isnt that why we signed him? The Lakers could put Kobe-Artest-Odom-Gasol-Bynum in the clutch and Spurs would have to match with Parker-Manu-Jefferson-Mcdyess-Duncan, Mcdyess would have to stay in to guard Bynum and to get rebounds.