bobby flay throwdowns

[clambake]

what is the best method for you bbq pro's. i'm from N.ireland and would like some feedback.

he had a rib throwdown. bobby used dry rub (and a shitload of it) and cooked low and slow.

the other guy used very little dry spice and cooked fast and hot. he put some kind of bbq sauce and vinegar mix at the end.

fast and hot guy won the throwdown.

what is the best way to cook ribs?

[BacktoBasics]

I don't like fast and hot. It can be good but to me BBQ is defined by low and slow. Fat and collagen break down most effectively using a slow methodical rise allowing the meat to absorb juices. Cooking fast can break down fat but you end up dehyrating the meat to a certain extent.

When I'm pressed for time I use the 3-2-1 method for spare ribs. 3 hours smoke. 2 hours tightly wrapped. 1 hour to finish up. Basically to firm up and add sauce if you want sauce.

Beef is way more forgiving than pork.

[clambake]

when you say "3 hours smoke, 2 hours wrapped and 1 hour to finish.....do you mean

"3 hours of smoke (indirect heat) THEN 2 hours wrapped (indirect heat) THEN 1 hour unwrapped (indirect heat) for a total of 6 hours?

[BacktoBasics]

If I'm cooking fast, something like chicken, I'd use a brine first. It would at least help.

[CosmicCowboy]

Rub with worchestershire and then dry rub to make a paste.
Low and slow 2 hours in smoke.
Wrap with foil low and slow 1 hour.
Check to see if bones are starting to loosen but not fall out.
Adjust foil cooking time time accordingly. You want the bones to be loose but not too loose and have a slight "bite" to them when you pull the meat off the bone (but loose enough that it comes off cleanly)
Pull out, remove from foil and let rest for at least 15 minutes.
Cut into 3 rib pieces.
Baste with 2/3 spicy red mop sauce and 1/3 honey
Cook hot and fast on the grill flipping them with tongs till the baste sauce caramelizes. Pull them off as they are done...
Serve to your adoring fans.
Save the bones for the dog because thats all you will have left no matter how many you cook.

[BacktoBasics]

when you say "3 hours smoke, 2 hours wrapped and 1 hour to finish.....do you mean

"3 hours of smoke (indirect heat) THEN 2 hours wrapped (indirect heat) THEN 1 hour unwrapped (indirect heat) for a total of 6 hours?That's right.

Presonally I prefer 225 until the slab bends and you can turn the bone. However that could potentially take 8-10 hours at those temps. So I use the 3-2-1 because it saves time and I'm only sacrificing minimal quality.

[BacktoBasics]

Low and slow 2 hours in smoke.
Wrap with foil low and slow 1 hour.
Check to see if bones are starting to loosen but not fall out.
Adjust foil cooking time time accordingly. You want the bones to be loose but not too loose and have a slight "bite" to them when you pull the meat off the bone (but loose enough that it comes off cleanly)
Pull out, remove from foil and let rest for at least 15 minutes.
Cut into 3 rib pieces.
Baste with 2/3 spicy red mop sauce and 1/3 honey
Cook hot and fast on the grill flipping them with tongs till the baste sauce caramelizes. Pull them off as they are done...
Serve to your adoring fans.
Save the bones for the dog because thats all you will have left no matter how many you cook.I probably wouldn't recommend pork bones for a dog. Unless you were just describing your method for beef.

[BacktoBasics]

Rub with worchestershire and then dry rub to make a paste.
Low and slow 2 hours in smoke.
Wrap with foil low and slow 1 hour.
Check to see if bones are starting to loosen but not fall out.
Adjust foil cooking time time accordingly. You want the bones to be loose but not too loose and have a slight "bite" to them when you pull the meat off the bone (but loose enough that it comes off cleanly)
Pull out, remove from foil and let rest for at least 15 minutes.
Cut into 3 rib pieces.
Baste with 2/3 spicy red mop sauce and 1/3 honey
Cook hot and fast on the grill flipping them with tongs till the baste sauce caramelizes. Pull them off as they are done...
Serve to your adoring fans.
Save the bones for the dog because thats all you will have left no matter how many you cook.That's important. I've adjusted the 3-2-1 method many times. If I'm running hot like 275 you don't want it to be wrapped for too long. The better the pit the better the temp control.

[CosmicCowboy]

That's right.

Presonally I prefer 225 until the slab bends and you can turn the bone. However that could potentially take 8-10 hours at those temps. So I use the 3-2-1 because it saves time and I'm only sacrificing minimal quality.

I like the 2 + whatever it takes in foil method just because I don't like an overpowering smoke flavor on my ribs...When I bite into mine I want to taste the "sweet" from the caramelized honey, then the 'bite" of the spicy mop sauce, then the clean aftertaste of the smoky rib meat...

[clambake]

ok....do you guys make your own dry rub mix or do you buy off the counter?

do you guys finish with your own sauce (and i don't mean the sauce you create when your thinking of hot chicks) or store bought sauce?

almost forgot. wood (what kind) or charcoal? and what is best for beef ribs/what is best for pork ribs?

[JudynTX]

/make your mouth water thread

[CosmicCowboy]

I generally buy my rubs. i have made my own that were very good but it's actually more expensive to buy all the individual ingredients. This is the rub I am currently using on my briskets and ribs.

http://texasbbqrub.com/shopping.html

On my chickens I use Italian dressing and Bohlners poultry rub.

On my pork shoulders I use worchestershire and bohlners pork rub.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

never understood the concept of lathering up and cooking a piece of meat with bbq sauce . if i want bbq sauce i'll put it on my meat. i think the meat should be seasoned, marinated, what have you and let that give the flavor to the meat. kinda like putting salt on something before you taste it or drowning fries in ketchup.

[CosmicCowboy]

My wood of choice for pork is oak that has been cut for about 4 months. Not green, but not totally dry either.

I like pecan for poultry and a blend of mesquite and oak for briskets.

[BacktoBasics]

Store bought rubs are pretty decent. I've used Rudys rub a few times lately and its been good.

I recommend pecan or hickory with charcoal for pork. Mesquite is okay but its pretty strong. Pecan is pretty much my favorite. Unlike CC I like the smoke flavor.

If I make my own rubs I usually go this route as an outline 3.5 parts. I like big batches

1 cup chili powder
1 cup brown sugar
Half cup kosher salt
1 cup equal portions garlic powder, cayenne, paprika, ground mustard seed and cumin

Trim it down for a smaller portion

[clambake]

My wood of choice for pork is oak that has been cut for about 4 months. Not green, but not totally dry either.

I like pecan for poultry and a blend of mesquite and oak for briskets.

i think i'll order that rub for ribs.

frankly, trying to smoke brisket seems a bit daunting.

[BacktoBasics]

Oak is excellent when used with other woods. I use it to cut mesquite or hickory pretty regularly. Its a good taste and I consider it to be a mild wood.

[clambake]

I recommend pecan or hickory with charcoal for pork. Mesquite is okay but its pretty strong. Pecan is pretty much my favorite. Unlike CC I like the smoke flavor.

CC said he likes oak. is oak a mild smoke flavoring compared to pecan and hickory?

[clambake]

just saw your post on oak.

[BacktoBasics]

This thread goes to show that there's more than one way to fuck a hooker. CC and I are similar at some things and quite different in others.

[BacktoBasics]

CC said he likes oak. is oak a mild smoke flavoring compared to pecan and hickory?

From strongest to lightest

Mesquite / Hickory
Pecan
Oak

Pecan is a great wood. Burn nicely. Smells great. If you like things on the mild end of things mix oak and pecan.

Oak is mild and even. I like pecan because is has more flavor but again if you aren't into smoke flavor let your meat and rub do that for you.

For the type of flavor CC is after oak is a no brainer.

[clambake]

don't you have to be careful about resin in oak?

[BacktoBasics]

don't you have to be careful about resin in oak?A little cancer never killed anyone.

[clambake]

A little cancer never killed anyone.

:lol nah, i meant that bitter resin taste.

[BacktoBasics]

:lol nah, i meant that bitter resin taste.CC may or may not disagree but I've found that the more green the wood is the more bitter you get. A nice medium age oak is pretty smooth. Flue control is key with smoking. You don't want to over do it. Nice steady light blue stream of smoke. If your smoke is thick black or yellow its too much and it's going to be bitter.

[CosmicCowboy]

CC may or may not disagree but I've found that the more green the wood is the more bitter you get. A nice medium age oak is pretty smooth. Flue control is key with smoking. You don't want to over do it. Nice steady light blue stream of smoke. If your smoke is thick black or yellow its too much and it's going to be bitter.

I agree. And don't misunderstand me...I like smoke flavor...I just don't like that to be the dominant taste that whacks you between the eyes...IMHO ribs especially can get too much smoke...I don't use the heavier smokes like hickory on my briskets because I don't wrap mine...I find that 12-18 hours in mesquite/oak is plenty of smoke and with the dry rub gives them a great smokey bark...

[BacktoBasics]

I agree. And don't misunderstand me...I like smoke flavor...I just don't like that to be the dominant taste that whacks you between the eyes...IMHO ribs especially can get too much smoke...I don't use the heavier smokes like hickory on my briskets because I don't wrap mine...I find that 12-18 hours in mesquite/oak is plenty of smoke and with the dry rub gives them a great smokey bark...I cannot stand hickory and beef. I do the mesquite/oak as well. Sometimes pecan/oak. Even then with a brisket I usually only hit it with smoke for the first 4-5 hours and then finish it with just charcoal or a mix of oak and charcoal if I'm low on charcoal.

[CosmicCowboy]

I cannot stand hickory and beef. I do the mesquite/oak as well. Sometimes pecan/oak. Even then with a brisket I usually only hit it with smoke for the first 4-5 hours and then finish it with just charcoal or a mix of oak and charcoal if I'm low on charcoal.

I don't use charcoal but my pit has an open firebox next to the closed firebox that has a steamer built in for adding steam to the firebox...I can shovel burned down coals into the pit firebox without adding a lot of smoke if I want to...

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/6816/food725001.jpg (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/food725001.jpg/)

[CosmicCowboy]

Nice steady light blue stream of smoke. If your smoke is thick black or yellow its too much and it's going to be bitter.

I think that B2B would agree that the smoke in the picture (the stack on the right) is what you want yours to look like.

[BacktoBasics]

I think that B2B would agree that the smoke in the picture (the stack on the right) is what you want yours to look like.That's correct. Thin free flowing white to light blue. Once you get a whiff of that thick yellow smoke you'll know its not right.

[clambake]

how in the hell can you guys keep a steady temp. of 225 for 12 to 18 hours?

is the heat source something other than the wood?

[CosmicCowboy]

how in the hell can you guys keep a steady temp. of 225 for 12 to 18 hours?

is the heat source something other than the wood?

Nope, just wood. It helps to have a good pit...I have multiple dampers so I can "tune" my temperature almost down to +/- 5 degrees.....and worst case if I get too much fire I can flip the top of my firebox open and spill heat...

It also helps to have friends and lots of beer.

[BacktoBasics]

how in the hell can you guys keep a steady temp. of 225 for 12 to 18 hours?

is the heat source something other than the wood?Flue control and a good pit. You can make good Q on any pit but the better the pit the better the temp control you have. For example my little 125 dollar job I keep on my patio is serviceable but I can't keep my temps below 250 because of the shitty flue design.

You have to monitor your pit regularly or get one of those piggy back charcoal holders that automatically dumps coals at pre-determined times.

On an 18 hour smoke I usually add charcoal or wood every 3 hours. With good lump I don't have to add for 5-6 hours. I'd image with a super nice pit you could get away with every 7-8 hours if you build your fire correctly.

The more you smoke the more you get to know your pit and how it responds to time and flue position.

[clambake]

Nope, just wood. It helps to have a good pit...I have multiple dampers so I can "tune" my temperature almost down to +/- 5 degrees.....and worst case if I get too much fire I can flip the top of my firebox open and spill heat...

It also helps to have friends and lots of beer.

ok...but how often do you check the temp?

how often do you have to add wood?

aren't you constantly having to check?

we're talking 12 to 18 hours here.

[CosmicCowboy]

I like cooking exactly at 210, so I am not playing with much fire...I never open the cook box lid till I think the meat should be ready but I'm messing with the smoke box at least once an hour...raking coals down, adding a piece of wood, etc.

[clambake]

Flue control and a good pit. You can make good Q on any pit but the better the pit the better the temp control you have. For example my little 125 dollar job I keep on my patio is serviceable but I can't keep my temps below 250 because of the shitty flue design.

You have to monitor your pit regularly or get one of those piggy back charcoal holders that automatically dumps coals at pre-determined times.

On an 18 hour smoke I usually add charcoal or wood every 3 hours. With good lump I don't have to add for 5-6 hours. I'd image with a super nice pit you could get away with every 7-8 hours if you build your fire correctly.

The more you smoke the more you get to know your pit and how it responds to time and flue position.
we may have similar smoker/grill. mine is the small barrel shaped with the smaller attached firebox.

i bought the thing thinking i'm going to be the best bbq'er from across the pond. didn't happen. not much "fine tuning" can be done with this thing. constantly too hot or too cold. a major pain in the ass.

[clambake]

I like cooking exactly at 210, so I am not playing with much fire...I never open the cook box lid till I think the meat should be ready but I'm messing with the smoke box at least once an hour...raking coals down, adding a piece of wood, etc.

how accurate is your temp gauge? mine can be as much as 70 degrees off. that wouldn't be such a bad thing if it was consistently 70 degrees off. i have to put another gauge on the inside, which means i'm always opening the lid.

you must really trust that smoker.

[leemajors]

I've done briskets in 7-8 hours at 250 or so, turned out pretty good. Still really juicy, cooked perfectly, nice crust, color on the inside. I don't have a charcoal setup, but a gas grill. I just make smoke packets with pecan/oak from the yard, and switch them out every 90 minutes or so. I know some consider it sacrilege to smoke with gas, but it turns out pretty damn good - it's also a badass grill and was given to me, so I'm not about to plunk down more cash on it. My extra money goes to fund my homebrewing =]

[CosmicCowboy]

ok...but how often do you check the temp?

how often do you have to add wood?

aren't you constantly having to check?

we're talking 12 to 18 hours here.

My pit has big dial thermometers that I can see from the house, but I can cook on pits without thermometers too. I have found that if I can hold my hand on the lid of the pit for 4 seconds before my hand gets uncomfortably hot that the temp is perfect.

I like my briskets about 10# which normally needs a pit cook time of 12-15 hours depending on the meat. I don't like to get up early unless I am hunting or fishing. What I normally like to do is cook brisket Saturday and serve on Sunday. I will start the fire Saturday morning and get the briskets on about 9am. I will check them about 9pm. I cook by temperature. If they are 195 internal I will pull them off then. If not, I will leave them on till they get to 195. Then, I pull them off and wrap them in a clean towel, and put them in an ice chest. I have a "brisket" chest that is just the size of a brisket and I can stack up to 4 of them in there if necessary. They spend the rest of the night in the brisket chest. Sunday morning I will fire the pit up again and wrap them in foil and put them in the warmer at about 150 for a couple of hours...then slice right before I serve them.

[BacktoBasics]

we may have similar smoker/grill. mine is the small barrel shaped with the smaller attached firebox.

i bought the thing thinking i'm going to be the best bbq'er from across the pond. didn't happen. not much "fine tuning" can be done with this thing. constantly too hot or too cold. a major pain in the ass.
It'll work fine. Do this

Get a chimney starter from Academy. The good silver one not that black piece of crap at HEB. Stop using fluid.

Fill it up 3/4 of the way with charcoal. Don't light it. Then dump it in the hot box's lower grate. That's your starter bed.

Then fill up the chimney starter and light it. Once its good and rolling add the full load on top of the bed of charcoals.

Set your flue on the hot box to be set at about 1/2 way closed. Then open the damper all the way on the exhaust end of the smoker.

15 minutes later. Put the meat on and add about two handfuls of wood to your charcoals.

If you're way too hot close the hot box flue a little if you're only a little hot close your exhaust damper a little. If you are running lean open the flue a bit until you settle in.

Checking once an hour is pretty conceivable but once you get dialed every few hours is manageable. I add about two handfuls of charcoal and one handful of wood every 2-4 hours.

You don't need a ton of wood to get a good smoke going. Little at a time.

[BacktoBasics]

HEB carries relatively accurate digital thermometers. One probe rests on the grill grate next to the meat. One is inserted in the meat. They're pretty good when I've seen them used. No more than 15 or so degrees off.

You need to put in a good temp gauge. Doing it blind is fine but a good temp gauge makes life easier.

[CosmicCowboy]

how accurate is your temp gauge? mine can be as much as 70 degrees off. that wouldn't be such a bad thing if it was consistently 70 degrees off. i have to put another gauge on the inside, which means i'm always opening the lid.

you must really trust that smoker.

I have 2 thermometers on the cookbox

heavy pit=even temperature. Mine is built where the heat comes out of the firebox, across under some heavy steel pans (that slope to drains) for about 4 feet, then does a 180 and comes back across my meat to the stack at the other end...theres about 1000# of steel just in the cook box part of the pit...the lid alone weighs 150#. It takes an hour or two to get it up to temp but it's pretty easy to hold it there once I get it there...

[clambake]

thanks guys. you've given me the courage to attempt this wild animal called "brisket".

195 degrees in the center, huh? it won't be too dry?

[clambake]

the lid weighs 150 lbs?

that explains the weighted pulley system.

[CosmicCowboy]

Rule of thumb is 50 minutes a pound and you add 15 minutes to the cook time every time you open the lid. If you are uncertain get you a remote probe digital meat thermometer...insert the probe in the meat and hang your thermometer outside the pit.

[BacktoBasics]

195 is prefect for brisket. 205 for pulled pork. Don't do what I did and panic when it stalls. It always seems to be a steady rise to 150 then hover for what seems like forever. Then it'll start to climb. I've had 12 pound briskets take as long as 22 hours. Just relax and go with it.

Make sure to let it rest for at least 30 minutes if not 45 before cutting away.

[CosmicCowboy]

If you are concerned about the brisket drying out put a pan of water in your cookbox under the grate at the firebox end. Keep filling it with boiling water as needed. I have my cooker set up where I can add steam to the firebox.

[clambake]

this is great information.

[BacktoBasics]

If you are concerned about the brisket drying out put a pan of water in your cookbox under the grate at the firebox end. Keep filling it with boiling water as needed. I have my cooker set up where I can add steam to the firebox.I can't speak for "steam" but the pan of hot/boiling water in the bottom of the pit is a great idea. It increases the humidity. Moisture seeks dry air. Including the moisture in your meat. By upping the humidity or moisture content of the air surrounding the meat its less likely to seek dryer temperatures.

I admit I don't do it all the time (too lazy) but it does help.

[Lackluster]

all about the "smokin tex" imo :hat

pork ribs at 225 for 3.5 hours, then 1.5 hours covered, maybe finish them for a few minutes on the grill to get the color just right.

slathered in an italian dressing/brown sugar/salt/pepper reduction

http://www.appliancist.com/smokintex-smoker-oven-1400.jpg

[CosmicCowboy]

Hey B2B. Go to HEB to the sauce/condiment section. Buy you a bottle of the HEB "Central Market" Island Habanero sauce. Try that on your pulled pork next time...Use 1 bottle to a 5# shoulder/Boston Butt roast. It's got orange juice concentrate, pineapple juice concentrate, coconut milk, ginger, all spice, and of course habanero in it. It's also cheaper than buying the ingredients separately and making your own. Mighty damn tasty jerked pork.

[BacktoBasics]

Hey B2B. Go to HEB to the sauce/condiment section. Buy you a bottle of the HEB "Central Market" Island Habanero sauce. Try that on your pulled pork next time...Use 1 bottle to a 5# shoulder/Boston Butt roast. It's got orange juice concentrate, pineapple juice concentrate, coconut milk, ginger, all spice, and of course habanero in it. It's also cheaper than buying the ingredients separately and making your own. Mighty damn tasty jerked pork.I love anything Habanero.

[clambake]

all about the "smokin tex" imo :hat

pork ribs at 225 for 3.5 hours, then 1.5 hours covered, maybe finish them for a few minutes on the grill to get the color just right.

slathered in an italian dressing/brown sugar/salt/pepper reduction

http://www.appliancist.com/smokintex-smoker-oven-1400.jpg

what is the heat source on this rig?

[leemajors]

what is the heat source on this rig?

probably electric, with coils on the bottom. Only problem with electric smokers is they are usually closed units, and have water pans. Which means they essentially steam the meat. My brother in law drilled a hole in his so the moisture can escape. He smokes his own bacon, fish, whatever in it and it's awesome. He just pops a wine cork in it when it's not in use so critters stay out.

[clambake]

probably electric, with coils on the bottom. Only problem with electric smokers is they are usually closed units, and have water pans. Which means they essentially steam the meat. My brother in law drilled a hole in his so the moisture can escape. He smokes his own bacon, fish, whatever in it and it's awesome. He just pops a wine cork in it when it's not in use so critters stay out.

maybe a stupid question, but.......when you say water pans, do you mean just the moisture from the meats that drip?

[leemajors]

maybe a stupid question, but.......when you say water pans, do you mean just the moisture from the meats that drip?

Nah there is usually a shallow pan for water above the firebox to keep things somewhat moist, and to prevent flare-ups.

[clambake]

Nah there is usually a shallow pan for water above the firebox to keep things somewhat moist, and to prevent flare-ups.

maybe another stupid question, but......why drill a hole in the bottom if you can just leave out the water?

oh oh i get it. he drilled a hole on the side so excess moisture can escape, right?

[leemajors]

he drilled a hole in the top, but yeah

[Lackluster]

probably electric, with coils on the bottom. Only problem with electric smokers is they are usually closed units, and have water pans. Which means they essentially steam the meat. My brother in law drilled a hole in his so the moisture can escape. He smokes his own bacon, fish, whatever in it and it's awesome. He just pops a wine cork in it when it's not in use so critters stay out.

yeah it's got electric coils that you slip that little metal house looking thing onto. a minimal amount of wood chips (literally 5 or 6 little scraps) go in the top part of that metal compartment and then i even cover that whole thing with foil because it produces a ton of smoke at a low temperature. it has a hole on the very top of it too that smoke escapes out of and it drips grease below the smoker.

i've only used it a handful of times, but i've got ribs down on that thing. i still need some more practice with briskets though... but they're coming along.