Does Kobe possess the best supporting cast in the league?

[RsxPiimp]

i think kobe bar none has the best talent around him, so he really has no excuse NOT to repeat next year. he still has a top 5 big man beside him (Pau) a defensive oriented player in artest, one of the most versatile 6th man in lamar and andrew bynum who when healthy is capable of giving them at least 15 ppg,10 boards and 2blocks per game. at pg, though laker fans always crucify derek fisher, he's still one of the best closers in the game. and to finish it off, the lakers has the greatest coach in the game. but kobe and the lakers has the weakest bench NOW in comparison to orlando,cleveland,dallas,boston and san antonio.


so looking at the quality of role players surrounding other superstars, does kobe still has the best supporting cast in the league?


duncan

manu
tony parker
richard jefferson
mcdyess

lebron

shaq
leon "laker killer" powe
jamario moon
anthony parker
mo williams
varejao
ilgauskas
delonte west


dirk

j.kidd
j.howard
j.terry
marion
drew gooden
tim thomas

kg

paul pierce
ray allen
kendrick perkins
rajon rondo
big baby
sheed
marquis daniels (soon to be)


dwight howard

vincer carter
jameer nelson
shard lewis
brandon bass
mickael pietrus
matt barnes
gortat

[djohn14]

Fisher, Kobe, Artest, Bynum, Gasol, and Odom is the best starting 5 + 6th man. But after that...Luke Walton pretty much makes the bench look bad...not saying they are...but Luke Walton sucks at most things.

[Spursfan092120]

Um...are you kidding?

[lil_penny]

I think the celtics are pretty deep... also luke walton is a pretty good passer.. that's about it though

[RsxPiimp]

Fisher, Kobe, Artest, Bynum, Gasol, and Odom is the best starting 5 + 6th man. But after that...Luke Walton pretty much makes the bench look bad...not saying they are...but Luke Walton sucks at most things.

yeah, i think it gets worse from that point, they have sasha vujacic, dj mbenga and i dont know who else. i think shannon brown is serviceable though.


Um...are you kidding?

answer the question or gtfo.

[JamStone]

I don't think you ask how great a supporting cast KG has. I think you ask how good of a supporting cast Paul Pierce has. While KG is the main reason for the Celtics' successes the last two years, I still think it's Paul Pierce's team. The offense still runs through him. He, more times than either KG or Ray Allen, will have the ball in his hands late in close games. It's Paul Pierce's team. And, I think he has the best supporting cast of any player in the league.

[Spursfan092120]

answer the question or gtfo.
check the poll, douchebag..already did

[Spursfan092120]

I don't think you ask how great a supporting cast KG has. I think you ask how good of a supporting cast Paul Pierce has. While KG is the main reason for the Celtics' successes the last two years, I still think it's Paul Pierce's team. The offense still runs through him. He, more times than either KG or Ray Allen, will have the ball in his hands late in close games. It's Paul Pierce's team. And, I think he has the best supporting cast of any player in the league.
I agree with this 100%, Garnett is not the leader of that team..and Pierce has the best supporting cast IMO.

[KSeal]

Yes, easily. The Lakers are the best team in the league this year and will be for years to come.

Take Kobe off the Lakers and they're still a 45-50 win team.

[RsxPiimp]

check the poll, douchebag..already did

poll is set at private you idiot.

[RsxPiimp]

I don't think you ask how great a supporting cast KG has. I think you ask how good of a supporting cast Paul Pierce has. While KG is the main reason for the Celtics' successes the last two years, I still think it's Paul Pierce's team. The offense still runs through him. He, more times than either KG or Ray Allen, will have the ball in his hands late in close games. It's Paul Pierce's team. And, I think he has the best supporting cast of any player in the league.

boston is kg's team but it depends on how you look at it. i think the defensive intensity he brought to boston changed the landscape of the celtics plain and simple, ray allen also has the ball in his hands late in close games, his numerous game winners for boston can attest to that. pierce dont even deserve that Finals MVP 2 years ago.

[Spursfan092120]

poll is set at private you idiot.
maybe the whole "um...are you kidding?" would have answered the question..

[Culburn369]

That's what is so cockeyed about Kobe. He takes nobody with him, nor does he makes those around him better....but, good players make Kobe better. It's weird.

[RsxPiimp]

maybe the whole "um...are you kidding?" would have answered the question..


no it didnt. next time use 'yes' or 'no' if reasoning is limited.

[Spursfan092120]

no it didnt. next time use 'yes' or 'no' if reasoning is limited.
you want reasoning? You said it yourself. First off, Bynum has the "capability" of playing well..he hasn't yet. They have a weak bench, and Laker fans are right..Fisher does suck. When you say "best supporting cast in the league," Lakers are not there...sorry...my opinion

[jacobdrj]

i don't think you ask how great a supporting cast kg has. I think you ask how good of a supporting cast paul pierce has. While kg is the main reason for the celtics' successes the last two years, i still think it's paul pierce's team. The offense still runs through him. He, more times than either kg or ray allen, will have the ball in his hands late in close games. It's paul pierce's team. And, i think he has the best supporting cast of any player in the league.

+1

[carrao45]

That's what is so cockeyed about Kobe. He takes nobody with him, nor does he makes those around him better....but, good players make Kobe better. It's weird.

Kobe made Gasol a hell of a lot better, same with Ariza. And Smush Parker was a starter for a playoff team when he was playing with Kobe. Now, without Kobe, he's out of the league.
I think it's safe to say Kobe makes his teammates better. And I would say nobody in the league is better at making his teammates better than Kobe

[hater]

Pau Gasol, top 10 big man
Lamar Odom, unique player in the NBA, a Joker card
Andrew Bynum, a solid bigman who sometimes is great
Ron Artest, a great defender still and he got a fighting heart

even if the rest are scrubs that is arguably best supporting cast in basketball

they are all in their PRIME

[hater]

Kobe made Gasol a hell of a lot better

you are a dumbass

Gasol was the same player he is now. or even better because he touched the ball more before. Now he just looks better because he is not surrounded by a bunch of scrubs.

Gasol made the Lakers better. Kobe had nothing to do with it.

[Amaso]

That's what is so cockeyed about Kobe. He takes nobody with him, nor does he makes those around him better....but, good players make Kobe better. It's weird.

I don't know if you're trying to not be a homer, but Kobe does make players around him better, just like every good player in this league. You don't have to be a point guard to make your teammates better. Sasha is a completely garbage player when he's not on the floor with Kobe, Trevor Ariza wouldn't even be signing his contract if he wasn't playing with an all-star, and so on. The more attention the player attracts, in this case Kobe, the better his teammates are gonna be regardless if that superstar is a pass-first point guard or a center.

[Chieflion]

I screwed up the stupid poll.

[Culburn369]

I don't know if you're trying to not be a homer, but Kobe does make players around him better, just like every good player in this league. You don't have to be a point guard to make your teammates better. Sasha is a completely garbage player when he's not on the floor with Kobe, Trevor Ariza wouldn't even be signing his contract if he wasn't playing with an all-star, and so on. The more attention the player attracts, in this case Kobe, the better his teammates are gonna be regardless if that superstar is a pass-first point guard or a center.

No, I'm a homer,,,I just don't lock step. Who has Bryant ever made better (over a course of time)? Odom lanquished for years before he finally woke up for 2 months during these last playoffs. How bout Radmo? No, Radmo wilted under the contempt of Bryant. Farmar has regressed. Vug is on pins & needles playing with Bryant.

I'm not condemning Bryant. It's just an observation. He is not Magic Johnson. Johnson took the weak of spirit & mind and carried them kicking & screaming to the end. It's not that Kobe won't do it. He can't do it.

Kobe is an assassin...but, sometimes he emits friendly fire.

[gmartin02]

No, I'm a homer,,,I just don't lock step. Who has Bryant ever made better (over a course of time)?
Shaq

Shaq doesn't get 3 rings leading a team without Kobe (Shaq didn't lead Miami to their championship - DW did - Shaq wasn't even in the game during end of 4th quarter situations - Zo was)

[spursfan1000]

Id say yes Lakers do.

[Man In Black]

No, I'm a homer,,,I just don't lock step. Who has Bryant ever made better (over a course of time)? Odom lanquished for years before he finally woke up for 2 months during these last playoffs. How bout Radmo? No, Radmo wilted under the contempt of Bryant. Farmar has regressed. Vug is on pins & needles playing with Bryant.

I'm not condemning Bryant. It's just an observation. He is not Magic Johnson. Johnson took the weak of spirit & mind and carried them kicking & screaming to the end. It's not that Kobe won't do it. He can't do it.

Kobe is an assassin...but, sometimes he emits friendly fire.

Like Father, like son. Jelly Bean Joe Bryant felt that he wasn't treated very well when he was in the NBA. He played in Philly but was at best a 6th option when it came to pecking order during Dr. J's first years as a Sixer. He then came to San Diego to be a Clipper and while starting at times, he played often behind Lloyd "World B" Free and the Late Great Randy Smith. It made Bean so mad that he opted to bail for Italy, so he could be the man. If you wonder why Kobe is so single-minded at times, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[Man In Black]

Shaq

Shaq doesn't get 3 rings leading a team without Kobe (Shaq didn't lead Miami to their championship - DW did - Shaq wasn't even in the game during end of 4th quarter situations - Zo was)

If Shaq didn't provide foundation scoring for those 3 quarters every game, the Lakers wouldn't have been as competitive in those games. Recognize. They needed each other. Same with Wade. If it was just Wade & Zo, who knows, then maybe Dallas fans can actually point to their ring finger.

[carrao45]

you are a dumbass

Gasol was the same player he is now. or even better because he touched the ball more before. Now he just looks better because he is not surrounded by a bunch of scrubs.

Gasol made the Lakers better. Kobe had nothing to do with it.

Lol dumbass who thinks that same number of points on much improved FG% improved.
Oh and way to forget to argue against Kobe helping Ariza become better

[carrao45]

Oh and Dwight Howard's supporting cast consists of 3 All-Stars and solid role players such as Michael Pietrus, and Gortat.

Kobe's consists of 1 All-Star, and Good Players such as Odom and Artest, and trash like Sasha, and Morrison

Dwight has the best supporting cast

[scanry]

Oh and Dwight Howard's supporting cast consists of 3 All-Stars and solid role players such as Michael Pietrus, and Gortat.

Kobe's consists of 1 All-Star, and Good Players such as Odom and Artest, and trash like Sasha, and Morrison

Dwight has the best supporting cast

You might have a point about Orlando, but Dwight cannot lead a team to a championship. The man has no post moves and is a little overated as a defender. Jameer was half healthy in the Finals (Alston should have played instead).

BTW Kobe's teammates are much better than Dwight's. The Lakers can and should win around 55 games without Kobe (as was the case with the 1993-94 Bulls) in a regular season.

[Culburn369]

Like Father, like son. Jelly Bean Joe Bryant felt that he wasn't treated very well when he was in the NBA. He played in Philly but was at best a 6th option when it came to pecking order during Dr. J's first years as a Sixer. He then came to San Diego to be a Clipper and while starting at times, he played often behind Lloyd "World B" Free and the Late Great Randy Smith. It made Bean so mad that he opted to bail for Italy, so he could be the man. If you wonder why Kobe is so single-minded at times, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Kobe's nurturing has proven out be a double-edged sword. We've thrived and we've suffered for the sins of the father. I'm sure that roller coaster ride will continue unabated.

[KSeal]

Oh and Dwight Howard's supporting cast consists of 3 All-Stars and solid role players such as Michael Pietrus, and Gortat.

Kobe's consists of 1 All-Star, and Good Players such as Odom and Artest, and trash like Sasha, and Morrison

Dwight has the best supporting cast

To be fair Kobe has 2 All-Stars now with Artest joining. Morrison doesn't even count cause he probably won't even play, same with Sasha.

It'll probably be Farmar, Brown, Walton and Lamar as the four off the bench. PJ will probably play Sasha or Morrison at the start of the year but if they both still suck massive ass I hope he just starts playing Brown at the 2.

[VivaPopovich]

Not anymore.

[Lars]

In my opinion this all goes back to the Gasol trade.

Without that gift we would have a fantastic West race next year, with 3-4 teams trully capable of emerging victorous. It would of been hella fun to watch, but watching one team get stacked via advantages not available to everyone else is boring and harbors resentment to the league imo. Heck, maybe even the Grizzlies would be up there as a legit playoff team.

[2Cleva]

No, I'm a homer,,,I just don't lock step. Who has Bryant ever made better (over a course of time)? Odom lanquished for years before he finally woke up for 2 months during these last playoffs. How bout Radmo? No, Radmo wilted under the contempt of Bryant. Farmar has regressed. Vug is on pins & needles playing with Bryant.

I'm not condemning Bryant. It's just an observation. He is not Magic Johnson. Johnson took the weak of spirit & mind and carried them kicking & screaming to the end. It's not that Kobe won't do it. He can't do it.

Kobe is an assassin...but, sometimes he emits friendly fire.

LO is a bad example, he has played the same since he came in as a rookie until now, regardless of the environment. Lanquished? Hardly. He just isn't cut to be a 2nd option no matter what team he's on.

When you look at role players, a lot of them played their best with Kobe.

Smush Parker couldn't play in this league but started and did well for the 2 seasons he played next to Kobe.

Brian Cook rode pine everywhere but started next to Kobe.

Derek Fisher, got paid in GS and Utah but didn't get back to shooting well to back in LA.

Magic (and most great PGs) make teammates better by giving them more opportunities in scoring positions. Kobe makes teammates better like great big men do - draw so much attention to themselves that it gives their teammates that extra space needed.

[Culburn369]

When you look at role players, a lot of them played their best with Kobe.

Smush Parker couldn't play in this league but started and did well for the 2 seasons he played next to Kobe.

Brian Cook rode pine everywhere but started next to Kobe.

Derek Fisher, got paid in GS and Utah but didn't get back to shooting well to back in LA.

Magic (and most great PGs) make teammates better by giving them more opportunities in scoring positions. Kobe makes teammates better like great big men do - draw so much attention to themselves that it gives their teammates that extra space needed.

My God, Cleva, Smush Parker was an unmitigated disaster. He is not a professional basketball player. I give Kobe a pass on that one.

Kobe had no positive impact on Cook. He was a bum comin' & goin'.

Kobe hasn't taken Walton anywhere. He's still standin' around, wringin' his hands, sneaking a look at Bryant every time he fucks up.

Gasol just transferred his game to Los Angeles. The key is we got something for nothing and compounded it by getting rid of nothing (Brown).

Gasol has toughened up some, but, that is more by coaching acumen than anything Kobe has instituted.

[Culburn369]

In my opinion this all goes back to the Gasol trade.

Without that gift we would have a fantastic West race next year, with 3-4 teams trully capable of emerging victorous. It would of been hella fun to watch, but watching one team get stacked via advantages not available to everyone else is boring and harbors resentment to the league imo. Heck, maybe even the Grizzlies would be up there as a legit playoff team.

That's just a combination of sour grapes & the Mavs handing you your ass for close order inspection.

Get your shit together, Lars, and stop whining, you gd weak shit, you.

[DAF86]

Who do you think would win a 7 games playoff series out of this two teams?

TEAM A

Tony Parker-Manu Ginobili-Richard Jefferson-Dejuan Blair-Antonio McDyess

TEAM B

Derek Fisher-Ron Artest-Lamar Odom-Pau Gasol-Andrew Bynum


I think TEAM A would win easily, and I don't wanted to talk about the subs, 'cause the difference would be bigger.

[Culburn369]

Who do you think would win a 7 games playoff series out of this two teams?

TEAM A

Tony Parker-Manu Ginobili-Richard Jefferson-Dejuan Blair-Antonio McDyess

TEAM B

Derek Fisher-Ron Artest-Lamar Odom-Pau Gasol-Andrew Bynum


I think TEAM A would win easily, and I don't wanted to talk about the subs, 'cause the difference would be bigger.

That "easily" shit is what ended up with the Mavs bustin' off a piece of their Kit Kat Bar in your lunchbucket.

[ambchang]

Kobe definitely made his teammates better, there is no arguing.

If you don't get on his good side, he will get you traded like O'Neal, or he would go public about his desire to get you traded, like Bynum. Speaking of which, just looked at how much Bynum improved right after those trade demands. I would work my ass off to please the Black Mamba if I want a job with the Lakers.

[Culburn369]

Kobe definitely made his teammates better, there is no arguing.

If you don't get on his good side, he will get you traded like O'Neal, or he would go public about his desire to get you traded, like Bynum. Speaking of which, just looked at how much Bynum improved right after those trade demands. I would work my ass off to please the Black Mamba if I want a job with the Lakers.

Don't get your caustic on this morning, amb. It's Friday, the Lakers are NBA Champions, and hey, you got that clean clock, courtesy of the Mavs.

tee, hee.

[LOL texans]

Kobe possesses a rapist wit.

[Culburn369]

Kobe possesses a rapist wit.

He does pack a mean hemorroid.

[hater]

Lol dumbass who thinks that same number of points on much improved FG% improved.
Oh and way to forget to argue against Kobe helping Ariza become better

put Kobe on the Grizzlies and you don't think his FG% would decrease. please :rolleyes

[JamStone]

Who do you think would win a 7 games playoff series out of this two teams?

TEAM A

Tony Parker-Manu Ginobili-Richard Jefferson-Dejuan Blair-Antonio McDyess

TEAM B

Derek Fisher-Ron Artest-Lamar Odom-Pau Gasol-Andrew Bynum


I think TEAM A would win easily, and I don't wanted to talk about the subs, 'cause the difference would be bigger.

Team A would have an advantage out on the perimeter, but Team B would own the paint, control the glass at both ends, and would probably win more times than not. Honestly.

[JamStone]

boston is kg's team but it depends on how you look at it. i think the defensive intensity he brought to boston changed the landscape of the celtics plain and simple, ray allen also has the ball in his hands late in close games, his numerous game winners for boston can attest to that. pierce dont even deserve that Finals MVP 2 years ago.

That's like saying the 2004-06 Miami Heat was Shaq's team.

It's not KG's team. He's extremely important to their success, and he's the piece that can put them over the top, but it's Paul Pierce's team. You could ask KG and he would say that. Defensive intensity is good and important. You don't call the Spurs Tim Duncan's team because of defensive intensity. You call it Duncan's team because the ball still goes through him when it counts. And, now that it also goes through Parker, people question whether it's Duncan's or Parker's team now. Not because of defensive intensity, but because of the offense.

Boston is Paul Pierce's team. I don't even think there's much debate over that fact.

[Allanon]

If you think about it, the Lakers talent is not spectacular but it's widespread.

You have Pau/Odom/Bynum/Artest/Fisher...none of whom are the best at their position. But they're all within Top15. I think the 2-3 guys on the Celtics/Cavs/Spurs are better than the Laker 2-3 guys, but when you compare to 10 players, that's when the Lakers strength starts to show.

The Lakers, like last year, are a very deep team which can withstand long-term injuries to everybody except Kobe. And that's why they win.

[2Cleva]

If you think about it, the Lakers talent is not spectacular but it's widespread.

You have Pau/Odom/Bynum/Artest/Fisher...none of whom are the best at their position. But they're all within Top15.


If you take Fisher out of the picture, the others are arguably all Top 5 at their position.

[JamStone]

No they're not, except for Gasol.

[LnGrrrR]

I go with the Celtics, just because I think their bench is a tad deeper.

[ambchang]

Don't get your caustic on this morning, amb. It's Friday, the Lakers are NBA Champions, and hey, you got that clean clock, courtesy of the Mavs.

tee, hee.

Oh yeah, I didn't realized Mavs had the Spurs out of the playoffs 4-1 if you didn't tell me.

Come to think of it, maybe a better title to the thread should be "Does Gasol possess the best supporting cast in the league?"

[DAF86]

Team A would have an advantage out on the perimeter, but Team B would own the paint, control the glass at both ends, and would probably win more times than not. Honestly.

Team B doesn't have a guy (with the exception maybe of Gasol, but I don't trust him too much on that role) that can take over a game. Team A has two. Besides Artest would feel "the man" on that team and would fuck up from 10 to 20 offensive plays per game.

[DAF86]

That's like saying the 2004-06 Miami Heat was Shaq's team.

It's not KG's team. He's extremely important to their success, and he's the piece that can put them over the top, but it's Paul Pierce's team. You could ask KG and he would say that. Defensive intensity is good and important. You don't call the Spurs Tim Duncan's team because of defensive intensity. You call it Duncan's team because the ball still goes through him when it counts. And, now that it also goes through Parker, people question whether it's Duncan's or Parker's team now. Not because of defensive intensity, but because of the offense.

Boston is Paul Pierce's team. I don't even think there's much debate over that fact.

Boston is KG's team simply 'cause he is the best player of that team. Go ask Doc Rivers who would he rather have of the two: KG or Pierce? I'm pretty sure he would say KG.

[DAF86]

If you take Fisher out of the picture, the others are arguably all Top 5 at their position.

lol With the exception of Gasol nobody is even close to the top 5 on their positions. And even Gasol isn't a sure thing, out of the top of my head: Tim, KG, Dirk, Bosh, Al Jefferson.

[carrao45]

You might have a point about Orlando, but Dwight cannot lead a team to a championship. The man has no post moves and is a little overated as a defender. Jameer was half healthy in the Finals (Alston should have played instead).

BTW Kobe's teammates are much better than Dwight's. The Lakers can and should win around 55 games without Kobe (as was the case with the 1993-94 Bulls) in a regular season.

OK who do you think wins in a series.

Orlando w/o Dwight, they still have those 3 All-Stars and better role players than LA

Lakers have Pau, the only All-Star, and good players in Odom, Bynum and Artest, followed by trash like sasha/morrison


Who wins?

[carrao45]

To be fair Kobe has 2 All-Stars now with Artest joining. Morrison doesn't even count cause he probably won't even play, same with Sasha.

It'll probably be Farmar, Brown, Walton and Lamar as the four off the bench. PJ will probably play Sasha or Morrison at the start of the year but if they both still suck massive ass I hope he just starts playing Brown at the 2.

Walton and Farmar are trash as well, And Artest isn't All-Star Calliber anymore IMO

[LnGrrrR]

I think that the Spurstalk math is off. Right now, each option has 24 votes... and 51.06%. WTF?

[JamStone]

Team B doesn't have a guy (with the exception maybe of Gasol, but I don't trust him too much on that role) that can take over a game. Team A has two. Besides Artest would feel "the man" on that team and would fuck up from 10 to 20 offensive plays per game.


Team A doesn't have a low post scoring threat that commands a double team, making it easier to double perimeter guys or collapse in the paint to prevent slashing. Look at Kobe's teams without a quality big man. Look at Dwyane Wade with an even declining Shaq and without him. And neither Tony Parker or Manu are Kobe or Wade. Team B would control the boards and win something like 7 out of 10 times because of the front court advantage.

[ambchang]

If you take Fisher out of the picture, the others are arguably all Top 5 at their position.

Pau is most definitely a top 5 centre in the league, probably top 3. Players better are Yao and Howard.

Bynum isn't even top 10 right now, forget about top 5.
PFs better - Duncan, Nowitzki, Garnett, Aldridge, Boozer, Bosh, Brand, Griffin, Millsap, Scola, Josh Smith, David West, and Odom

C's better - Yao, D12, Gasol, Bogut, Camby, Al Horford, Ilgauskas, Jefferson, Kaman, Shaq, Okur.

Odom is definitely not top 5.
PF - same as above w/o Odom, Millsap, Josh Smith, David West.
SF's better - Butler, Durant, Gay, Granger, Jeff Green, Josh Howard, SJax, Lebron, Maggette, Marion, Pierce, Prince, Hedo, Rashard Lewis.

Artest is not top 5.
SF - same as above + Odom
SG - Kobe, Carter, Joe Johnson, Ginobili, Iguodala, AI if he ever gets a job, Mayo, Redd, Roy, Wade and James White!

Fisher top 15?
Bibby, Kidd, Nash, Parker, Williams, CP3, Billups, Calderon, Chalmers, Baron Davis, Felton, TJ Ford, Hinrich, Rose, Jameer Nelson, Ridnour, Rondo, Sessions.

However, as a group, they form a very well balanced supporting cast.

[carrao45]

Who do you think would win a 7 games playoff series out of this two teams?

TEAM A

Tony Parker-Manu Ginobili-Richard Jefferson-Dejuan Blair-Antonio McDyess

TEAM B

Derek Fisher-Ron Artest-Lamar Odom-Pau Gasol-Andrew Bynum


I think TEAM A would win easily, and I don't wanted to talk about the subs, 'cause the difference would be bigger.

I think Team B wins, because Team A lacks post scoring, Team B has plenty of it

[JamStone]

Boston is KG's team simply 'cause he is the best player of that team. Go ask Doc Rivers who would he rather have of the two: KG or Pierce? I'm pretty sure he would say KG.

Which player Doc would rather have doesn't determine whose team it is. Doc might rather have KG, but if you also ask whose team it is, I'd bet he'd say Pierce before Kevin. Amare is a better player than Nash but it's Nash's team. On Those old Nets teams, Vince was the best player but it was Jason Kidd'e team. The best player isn't always the leader of the team.

KG might be the best player on the Celtics but it's Paul Pierce's team.

[carrao45]

put Kobe on the Grizzlies and you don't think his FG% would decrease. please :rolleyes

The point is that once Gasol came to LA, he became much more effecient. To deny that Kobe, and all the attention he gets from the defense, had no part in that is extremely idiotic.

And again way to ignore how much Kobe helped Ariza

[JamStone]

Why is there the notion that it has to be either Gasol helping Kobe's game or vice versa?

It's pretty apparent to me that each helped the other. How you want to quantify it in terms of who helped the other more is pretty difficult. But, it's pretty obvious that Kobe is a better player because of Gasol and Gasol is a better player because of Kobe.

[2Cleva]

Pau is most definitely a top 5 centre in the league, probably top 3. Players better are Yao and Howard.

Pau is a PF. But still Top 3.


Bynum isn't even top 10 right now, forget about top 5.
PFs better - Duncan, Nowitzki, Garnett, Aldridge, Boozer, Bosh, Brand, Griffin, Millsap, Scola, Josh Smith, David West, and Odom

C's better - Yao, D12, Gasol, Bogut, Camby, Al Horford, Ilgauskas, Jefferson, Kaman, Shaq, Okur.

He's not a PF at all, eliminate that.

And no one would take Bogut, Camby, Horford, Ilgauskas, or Okur over Bynum. And Jefferson is a PF.


Odom is definitely not top 5.
PF - same as above w/o Odom, Millsap, Josh Smith, David West.
SF's better - Butler, Durant, Gay, Granger, Jeff Green, Josh Howard, SJax, Lebron, Maggette, Marion, Pierce, Prince, Hedo, Rashard Lewis.

Top 5 bench player - that's the role he's at now.


Artest is not top 5.
SF - same as above + Odom
SG - Kobe, Carter, Joe Johnson, Ginobili, Iguodala, AI if he ever gets a job, Mayo, Redd, Roy, Wade and James White!

Artest isn't a SG. Eliminate that now. And he's better than Gay, Green, Howard, Sjax, Maggette, Marion, and Prince easily. I'll give you Josh, LeBron, Butler, Durant. Argubaly over Hedo and Lewis because they don't play D.



Fisher top 15?
Bibby, Kidd, Nash, Parker, Williams, CP3, Billups, Calderon, Chalmers, Baron Davis, Felton, TJ Ford, Hinrich, Rose, Jameer Nelson, Ridnour, Rondo, Sessions.

Ridnour? Chalmers? C'mon now.

[JamStone]

Al Jefferson played mostly center for the Timberwolves last year.

And, when T-Mac went down last year, Artest played mostly 2-guard with Battier at the 3. And, if you take Kobe out of the equation for that hypothetical, Artest would be the 2-guard and Odom the 3.

[carrao45]

Why is there the notion that it has to be either Gasol helping Kobe's game or vice versa?

It's pretty apparent to me that each helped the other. How you want to quantify it in terms of who helped the other more is pretty difficult. But, it's pretty obvious that Kobe is a better player because of Gasol and Gasol is a better player because of Kobe.

I was never saying it had to be one of the other, i was just pointing out that Kobe did help Gasol's game. I never denied that Pau also helped Kobe's

[2Cleva]

Al Jefferson played mostly center for the Timberwolves last year.

And, when T-Mac went down last year, Artest played mostly 2-guard with Battier at the 3. And, if you take Kobe out of the equation for that hypothetical, Artest would be the 2-guard and Odom the 3.

Duncan played mostly at C his entire career but he's a PF.

No matter where they play at, I'm going on how players are classified.

[JamStone]

Duncan played mostly at C his entire career but he's a PF.

No matter where they play at, I'm going on how players are classified.

Al Jefferson is "classified" as a center on espn and center-forward on nba.com. If you want to go on how players are classified, Al Jefferson is a center first, PF second. Even the Minnesota Timberwolves website through nba.com list them as a "C-F" on the roster page. He's a center.

Al Jefferson ESPN profile (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2389)

Al Jefferson nba.com profile (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/al_jefferson/)

Timberwolves roster (http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/roster/)

[2Cleva]

Splittin hairs. So Yao, Shaq, Jefferson, and maybe Kaman over Bynum.

That ain't shabby.

The question was who has the best supporting cast around them and Kobe arguably has a top 5 player at almost every position around him (C, PF, SF, 6th man) except PG. Gotta give props to Mitch for building it and Dr Buss for paying for it.

[JamStone]

Lol, you were the one who wanted to "split hairs" in the first place, until you realized your assumption on what position Al Jefferson was "classified" was wrong. Plus, how do you think Bynum is better than Dwight Howard? Really now.

Bynum arguably has top 5 talent at the center position. He has a long way to go to actually proving he's a top 5 center in the league. He has to do more than he can have a few very good games for short stretches early in the regular season to prove it. It's like saying Greg Oden is a top 5 center. Prove it first. Don't just base it on talent and potential. Plus, when it mattered most, in the playoffs, Bynum's contributions were no where near what a top 5 center would give to the Lakers. Once he actually brings the production consistently for an entire season and do it in the playoffs, then you could call him a top 5 center. Until then, he's not.

[Dex]

Kobe doesn't even possess the best supporting cast in L.A.

[ambchang]

Duncan played mostly at C his entire career but he's a PF.

No matter where they play at, I'm going on how players are classified.

98 - 03, Robinson was the Spurs centre.
04 - 05, Nazr and Nesterovic were the Spurs centres.
06 - 09, Duncan, along with Oberto and Kurt Thomas were the Spurs centres.

Duncan has been playing mostly PF in his career.

[ambchang]

Splittin hairs. So Yao, Shaq, Jefferson, and maybe Kaman over Bynum.

That ain't shabby.

The question was who has the best supporting cast around them and Kobe arguably has a top 5 player at almost every position around him (C, PF, SF, 6th man) except PG. Gotta give props to Mitch for building it and Dr Buss for paying for it.

So with this ridiculously strong supporting cast, Kobe managed to barely squeak by Houston and Denver in the playoffs? I never realized how weak Kobe is himself.

[ambchang]

Pau is a PF. But still Top 3.

Sure, I agree.




He's not a PF at all, eliminate that.

And no one would take Bogut, Camby, Horford, Ilgauskas, or Okur over Bynum. And Jefferson is a PF.

As a player right now? Those are all better players than Bynum are. For the future based on potential, I would take Bynum though. But the discussion is around being a top 5 player at his position.




Top 5 bench player - that's the role he's at now.

6th man is not a position. The topic was around position, not roles.




Artest isn't a SG. Eliminate that now. And he's better than Gay, Green, Howard, Sjax, Maggette, Marion, and Prince easily. I'll give you Josh, LeBron, Butler, Durant. Argubaly over Hedo and Lewis because they don't play D.

Gay, Green, Howard, SJax, and Maggette are better than Artest at this point in their careers, not to mention the extra baggage that Artest has. Marion is arguable, Prince > Artest.

Artest isn't even CLOSE to Hedo and Lewis. And Artest is no longer the 04 version on D. He has clearly lost a step.




Ridnour? Chalmers? C'mon now.

Over Fisher? Yeah, why not? You do realize that calling Fisher average is a compliment to him now, right? He may have championship experience, and he still nail down clutch shots, but as a player, Ridnour and Chalmers are both better than Fisher, and by quite some margin.

[SonOfAGun]

No.

http://i25.tinypic.com/28veomq.jpg

[adidas11]

Yes, Kobe has the best supporting cast in the NBA.

You can't just judge a supporting cast by how many All Stars a team has. You also have to look at depth, balance, and fit.

The Lakers are essentially a 10 deep team. Heck, then even have three solid point guards, who each played an important role at one point or another in the playoffs.

They have a solid center. Most teams don't even have that. And in the case where Bynum gets into foul trouble, they can shift Gasol over to center, and bring in Odom.

At any point in the game, the Lakers can field an entire 5 on the court and say that they aren't really losing much no matter who they have on the court.

You can't say that they lack 3 point shooters, when they have Farmar and Sasha coming off the bench. You can't say that they don't have good defensive guards, when they have Fisher, Brown, and Kobe.

They have even upgraded at the small forward position by bringing in Artest. Even though I will miss Ariza who was excellent on defense with his long arms and steals (and clutch 3 point shooting), Artest can battle better against the stronger small forwards in the west (Carmelo Anthony anyone?)

[JamStone]

With that logic, I think most Laker fans would have to agree that LeBron > Kobe.

[Culburn369]

With that logic, I think most Laker fans would have to agree that LeBron > Kobe.

James mad dash thru the side door Vs the Magic in Casper clothing withstanding.

[JamStone]

Because of a weaker supporting cast. Exactly.

With a much weaker cast, James also gave the Boston Celtics a bigger challenge in 2008.

Kobe had help with the "best supporting cast in the league" against Orlando. Mo Williams was supposed to be the second best player and played weak against Orlando.

[adidas11]

The only other team in recent memory that has the kind of depth and balance that the Lakers have were the 1999-2000 Portland Trailblazers. And the big difference between the two teams then is that the Lakers are a relatively young team (with only Kobe and Fisher above the age of 30). Not sure how old Artest is though, now that he has been added.

[Culburn369]

The only other team in recent memory that has the kind of depth and balance that the Lakers have were the 1999-2000 Portland Trailblazers.

Yeah, I remember that Blazers team...that's the one Kobe made his bones on.

[BlackBellamy]

Kobe has a championship caliber surrounding cast fo' sho'. But Paul Pierce owns the best supporting squad in the league, in my opinion.

[ambchang]

James mad dash thru the side door Vs the Magic in Casper clothing withstanding.

38.5/8/8.3 was a really embarrassing line, totally speaks to James sucking vs. the Magic.

[Culburn369]

38.5/8/8.3 was a really embarrassing line, totally speaks to James sucking vs. the Magic.

The sound of James missed FTs & unforced TOs is deafening.

[ambchang]

The sound of James missed FTs & unforced TOs is deafening.

In other news, Kobe shot 100% from the FT line, the field, and had zero TOs throughout the playoffs.

[ambchang]

Yeah, I remember that Blazers team...that's the one Kobe made his bones on.

The same Kobe who shot 44% fromt he field, 73% from the line, with 20.5 pts, 6 asts 5 reb a game? The same Blazers team which the Lakers needed a 37-16 FT advantage in a Game 7 to win the series despite the fact that the FTAs were pretty much even 5 of the previous 6 games (except game 1, where, surprise surprise, Lakers had the FTA and the win).

Kobe sure made his bones on them.

[Culburn369]

Kobe sure made his bones on them.

Yep, he certainly did.

[Culburn369]

In other news, Kobe shot 100% from the FT line, the field, and had zero TOs throughout the playoffs.

What's the matter, amb, don't it float?

[DrHouse]

:lmao at how bitter ambchang is. You can literally see the anger, jealousy, and hatred in his words.

[Culburn369]

Yep, Number 15 stung old amb pretty hard.

Phil whipping out that X Hat was just choice. [They] thought he'd just let Auerbach rest in peace...keep the 10th on the down low. Uh, uh.

[LnGrrrR]

:lmao at how bitter ambchang is. You can literally see the anger, jealousy, and hatred in his words.

Literally?

[Culburn369]

Literally?

Yes. And then conversely, I figged you Celtics Fandom would be the one's stove up & flat earred, but, yer pussy-cats & a bit puny in the aftermath.

[Muser]

I voted yes, just because his supporting cast are relatively young and injury free, not to mention Gasol is in his prime.

[hater]

how are the Celtics supporting cast better??

Gasol = Garnett at this point
Odom >> Allen
Artest >>> Rondo\

Celtics have the better bench than Lakers but so do 15+ other teams

[JamStone]

Gasol is actually a better offensive player than KG. But KG's impact on defense is so great that I believe he's still a better, or at least more impactful, player. But it is closer now these days. Last year, Rajon Rondo played like a top 5 point guard in the league for much of the playoffs. Artest might be better, probably is better. I don't think it's convicingly so. But regardless, you don't just stop at the next three players. Boston also has a better overall front court with Perkins, Rashesd, and Davis.

It might not be a huge disparity, but it's not hard to argue that Paul Pierce has a better supporting cast than Kobe.

[LnGrrrR]

Yes. And then conversely, I figged you Celtics Fandom would be the one's stove up & flat earred, but, yer pussy-cats & a bit puny in the aftermath.

I literally rolled over in my grave reading that.

[ambchang]

:lmao at how bitter ambchang is. You can literally see the anger, jealousy, and hatred in his words.

Another jobfor the internet palm reader.

:tu

[ambchang]

Yep, Number 15 stung old amb pretty hard.

Phil whipping out that X Hat was just choice. [They] thought he'd just let Auerbach rest in peace...keep the 10th on the down low. Uh, uh.

As hard as 38/8/8 < 20/7/6

[Culburn369]

As hard as 38/8/8 < 20/7/6

Or Number 15 to Number O.

[ambchang]

Or Number 15 to Number O.

Suns.

[Culburn369]

James too.

[La Peace]

Derek Fisher has the best supporting cast in the league.

[tlongII]

It's the Blazers. And it's not close.

[Chieflion]

It's the Blazers. And it's not close.
Of course, you guys don't even have a decent enough starting SF.

[tlongII]

Of course, you guys don't even have a decent enough starting SF.

We've got THREE good SF's.

[Muser]

Brandon Roy must suck major ass if he can't win with a better team than Kobe has.

[tlongII]

Brandon Roy must suck major ass if he can't win with a better team than Kobe has.

54 wins jackass. And this team is just getting better and better and better...

[JamStone]

First round knock-out with the best supporting cast in the league???

[Muser]

54 wins jackass. And this team is just getting better and better and better...

Surely if Roy has the best supporting cast, and he is as good as you say he is the Blazers should've Swept their way to a :lobt2:?

[tlongII]

Surely if Roy has the best supporting cast, and he is as good as you say he is the Blazers should've Swept their way to a :lobt2:?

We're on our way baby!

[UrAphag]

Paul Pierce.

Just imagine

Kobe
KG
Perkins
Allen
Rondo

shit brix

[Culburn369]

Brandon Roy must suck major ass if he can't win with a better team than Kobe has.

Congrats, Muse, I believe that is your very first post of any import.

[Chieflion]

We've got THREE good SF's.
I wasn't asking for backups.