Kobe vs LeBron

[kobeownslebron20]

Pick the best right now

[PBEEZY]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133375&page=3

[spursfan1000]

Who cares,kobe has rings and lebron dosent

[kobeownslebron20]

yeah and even without rings kobe is better but lebron is getting close



im scared to see the lakers kobe might own us this year i have always been a kobe fan tho

[mystargtr34]

I could make the exact same thread, and both will still get 300+ replies.

[Muser]

Who cares,kobe has rings and lebron dosent


Matt Bonner has a ring, Bonner > Bron?

[hater]

2 years ago I would have picked Lebron easily. But he has reached a plateau and even regressed a bit and it seems it will be hard for him to improve anymore. Kobe is getting old and going downhill.

eh, I pick Durant

[Ghazi]

2 years ago I would have picked Lebron easily. But he has reached a plateau and even regressed a bit and it seems it will be hard for him to improve anymore. Kobe is getting old and going downhill.

eh, I pick Durant

The fuck are you talking about? He is WAY better now than he was 2 years ago.

[JustBlaze]

Pick the best right now


I say Kobe right now but i like both




We already went through with this shit. Just because you didn't like/agree with the results of the first poll does not mean you have to make a new one in a gimmick account.

[kobeownslebron20]

lmfao you idiots lebron even said kobe is better this year..

[JamStone]

I think LeBron has surpassed Kobe as an individual player. But, I still might take Kobe over LeBron if I had the choice of either to be on my team. LeBron is better, but it's not a huge disparity, and Kobe has now finally showed that he's a proven winner as the main guy. Kobe also strikes me as the type who will do absolutely anything and everything to win. Not sure if LeBron has that same type of desperation in his mentality. I don't know. That's how I see it. I could be wrong.

LeBron is better, but I still take Kobe... for now.

[anonoftheinternets]

lebron is better ... nothing against kobe, but just physically he is a freak. Add to that his finishing touch around the basket, and an average jumpshot (used to be poor), and hes pretty much better than everyone in the nba. Unfortunately his attitude seems to be barrelling downhill the last year. Also he needs mo williams to not choke. Lebron had stellar stats the whole year.

[Culburn369]

lebron is better

LeBron won't give up the ball. Kobe was the same way. At least he has learned to give it up. Sure, he stands over to the side, wringing his hands, pacing the weak side when he doesn't have it, but, James just won't relinquish it. He has to bring it up. He has to run the play for himself, he has to shoot. He needs a coach. The one he has now is just a rubber stamp---enabler.

A set of balls wouldn't hurt James either.

[ambchang]

I think LeBron has surpassed Kobe as an individual player. But, I still might take Kobe over LeBron if I had the choice of either to be on my team. LeBron is better, but it's not a huge disparity, and Kobe has now finally showed that he's a proven winner as the main guy. Kobe also strikes me as the type who will do absolutely anything and everything to win. Not sure if LeBron has that same type of desperation in his mentality. I don't know. That's how I see it. I could be wrong.

LeBron is better, but I still take Kobe... for now.

Give Lebron James Pau Gasol, Odom and Ariza, and he could be a winner as the main guy too.

It's much tougher to win with Mo Williams, Ilgauskas and Sideshow Bob.

[Culburn369]

Give Lebron James Pau Gasol, Odom and Ariza, and he could be a winner as the main guy too.

Yeah, but, Kobe had to hold Odom's & Gasol's hands the entire way. Even with Odom, Gasol & Ariza, who's gonna hold Jame's hand?

[ambchang]

Yeah, but, Kobe had to hold Odom's & Gasol's hands the entire way. Even with Odom, Gasol & Ariza, who's gonna hold Jame's hand?

Let's leave the Artest fantasies out of this.

James led his young team to the finals before, and never had a history of quitting on his team or causing trouble. James has shown that he could lead a team of inferior talent to exceed expectations.

[ginobili's bald spot]

Matt Bonner has a ring, Bonner > Bron?

He has a ring as the main player on the team? That's a dumb comparison and you know it.

[Phillip]

Who cares,kobe has rings and lebron dosent

Winning = Team accomplishment.


The fuck are you talking about? He is WAY better now than he was 2 years ago.

Why take anything he says seriously? He's a moron. I think his name should be changed from "hater" to "dumbass".

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Who cares,kobe has rings and lebron dosent

Robert Horry has rings and Charles Barkley doesn't.

[Walt Kowalski]

2 years ago I would have picked Lebron easily. But he has reached a plateau and even regressed a bit and it seems it will be hard for him to improve anymore. Kobe is getting old and going downhill.

eh, I pick Durant


Were you born this stupid or were your parents slipping meth into your apple juice when you were young?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Lebron:
28.4 points, 7.6 rebounds, 7.2 assists, 48.9% shooting, 78% FT shooting

Kobe:
26.8 points, 5.2 rebounds, 4.9 assists, 46.7% shooting, 85.6% FT shooting


Playoffs:

Lebron:
35.3 points, 9.1 rebounds, 7.3 assists, 51% shooting, 75% FT shooting

Kobe:
30.2 points, 5.3 rebounds, 5.5 assists, 45.7% shooting, 88.3% FT shooting


Yeah, I know Kobe won a ring and Lebron didn't. I also know that Gasol, Odom, and Ariza would all be the 2nd best player on the Cavs.

[Culburn369]

James led his young team to the finals before

I don't want to hear that shit. Recently on this very august Forum a fellow Lakers Bros. was soundly & rightfully severely beat about the head & shoulders for counting finals appearances in the + column, amb.

Ipso facto, consider yourself beat severely about the head & shoulders.

[Culburn369]

Yeah, I know Kobe won a ring and Lebron didn't.

Yeah, well, when Kobe couldn't get a ring without Daddy there was no mercy shown. Ipso facto, no mercy will be shown to James. None.

I for one am going to park dead in his shit until he rings.

Now,

Let us proceed...

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Yeah, well, when Kobe couldn't get a ring without Daddy there was no mercy shown. Ipso facto, no mercy will be shown to James. None.

I for one am going to park dead in his shit until he rings.

Now,

Let us proceed...


Why is it you act like winning a championship is an individual achievement and has nothing to do with a player's supporting cast?

[anonoftheinternets]

Why is it you act like winning a championship is an individual achievement and has nothing to do with a player's supporting cast?

well tbh culburn has already said he is hating on lebron to make up for the wrongs against kobe (cant win without shaq/doesnt make teammates better)... and not because of lebron ...

[Culburn369]

Why is it you act like winning a championship is an individual achievement and has nothing to do with a player's supporting cast?

Because that is template that was struck about the time Internet message Boards were cast, DUNCAN. We can't have one set of rules & bylaws for Kobe/Fake, I mean Lakers and another set of rules & bylaws for everyone else.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

well tbh culburn has already said he is hating on lebron to make up for the wrongs against kobe (cant win without shaq/doesnt make teammates better)... and not because of lebron ...


Why do you care so much? LA won a championship, just be happy about it.

[Culburn369]

well tbh culburn has already said he is hating on lebron to make up for the wrongs against kobe (cant win without shaq/doesnt make teammates better)... and not because of lebron ...

Sure, my James hate is petty and with just trace reason...kinda like when Kobe couldn't win one without Daddy....or, when Media was gettin' their high tech lynchin' ready for Daddy in the Summer of '00.

Now I get to be on top and tease & torment the local gentry.

Feels good, I gots to admit.

[Spurs da champs]

2 years ago I would have picked Lebron easily. But he has reached a plateau and even regressed a bit and it seems it will be hard for him to improve anymore. Kobe is getting old and going downhill.

eh, I pick Durant

if durant bulked up i'd agree with you. right now he's just way too frail and weak.

[23LeBronJames23]

Give Lebron James Pau Gasol, Odom and Ariza, and he could be a winner as the main guy too.

It's much tougher to win with Mo Williams, Ilgauskas and Sideshow Bob.

if LeBron would had pau gasol odom and ariza from the first year he came to nba he woulda had atleast 3 rings

[Culburn369]

if LeBron would had pau gasol odom and ariza from the first year he came to nba he woulda had atleast 3 rings

That "woulda" rigamarole will get you, well, O & 38.

How does that feel, 23?

[Culburn369]

"Kobe is the biggest whiner in the league."

True. But, that doesn't relieve James need for a set of balls.

[ambchang]

I don't want to hear that shit. Recently on this very august Forum a fellow Lakers Bros. was soundly & rightfully severely beat about the head & shoulders for counting finals appearances in the + column, amb.

Ipso facto, consider yourself beat severely about the head & shoulders.

Is the context the same? Are we talking about the same subject? What is a + column?

You want indications of leadership from James, there it was. He led his team past the Pistons despite being the underdogs and having a very limited supporting cast, as well as a coach who has no clue about offense.

People, either being lazy, or just lack the mental capacity, want to reduce all arguments down to a boolean function of have or not have rings. Sadly for them, the world is much more complex than that. Being on the right team at the right time, with the right coaching, with your teammates stepping up at the right time, seeding of your competitors, and dozens of factors that are outside of a player's control run into play.

Was Bryant any lesser of player in 2005 than in 2004 because his team didn't even make the playoffs in one, but made the finals in the other? Of course not, because even the stupidest of the stupid can see that a team with O'Neal, Malone and Payton is very different from one with Odom, Walton and Rush. Was 09 Kobe better than 08 Kobe because he didn't run into the Celtics? Of course not, it just simply meant that the 09 Kobe didn't run into the Celtics, that is all. So why does this standard not apply to different players?

Magic Johnson leading his team to 9 finals appearance during 12 years was a ridiculous accomplishment, arguably more impressive than his 5 rings. But that was never brought up because he was a Laker, and possibly the greatest Laker of all time.

[ambchang]

Sure, my James hate is petty and with just trace reason...kinda like when Kobe couldn't win one without Daddy....or, when Media was gettin' their high tech lynchin' ready for Daddy in the Summer of '00.

Now I get to be on top and tease & torment the local gentry.

Feels good, I gots to admit.

You have a problem with the rules that was previously cast by some bozo across the net/in the media, so you are now applying it in a debate against us? Makes little sense.

[Culburn369]

Is the context the same? Are we talking about the same subject? What is a + column?

"+ column" is rewarding the player for getting to the Finals, but, not winning the Finals.

Making the Finals is only a means to the end (winning the Finals). If you don't win the Finals you go back to the lump of the other 29 teams.

That's the way it's always been for the Lakers, so, I just naturally grandfather everybody else in the same way.

[JamStone]

To anyone that voted Kobe Bryant. I ask you this:

Name one thing Kobe Bryant does better on a basketball court than LeBron James other than shoot the midrange jumper.

I didn't even vote for Kobe, but I can name more than just one thing Kobe does better than LeBron.

1. Kobe's also a better three point shooter, not just midrange jump shooter
2. Free throws - if that isn't included in "midrange jumpers"
3. low post/mid post offense
4. using the glass on shots
5. making shots over double teams / triple teams
6. drawing fouls on jump shots
7. adjusting in the air on lay-ups - LeBron overpowers, Kobe adjusts
8. iso man defense - LeBron has improved but Kobe's better. LeBron is better in help defense and getting in the passing lanes. Kobe's a better man defender

Those are the ones that stick out off the top. I'm actually someone who said I believe LeBron has surpassed Kobe as an individual player. But, don't make it seem like it's ridiculous to think Kobe is better. It's close between the two. But, almost all of the advantages LeBron has over Kobe are based on natural, physical talents. Kobe still edges out LeBron in many of the areas that require skill.

It's not a landslide either way. Whoever you think is better, it's close between the two. They're the two best players in the league.

[ambchang]

"+ column" is rewarding the player for getting to the Finals, but, not winning the Finals.

Making the Finals is only a means to the end (winning the Finals). If you don't win the Finals you go back to the lump of the other 29 teams.

That's the way it's always been for the Lakers, so, I just naturally grandfather everybody else in the same way.

So there are no degrees of success in your world? Getting 99% is just the same as getting 12%, because you didn't get perfect grades?

The Magic last year accomplished as much as the Clippers, and the Clippers have the #1 pick to show for it too, so the Clippers were better off than the Magic according to this logic.

[Culburn369]

So there are no degrees of success in your world?

Just the NBA Wing of my world.

[ambchang]

Just the NBA Wing of my world.

so this still stands?


The Magic last year accomplished as much as the Clippers, and the Clippers have the #1 pick to show for it too, so the Clippers were better off than the Magic according to this logic.

[jacobdrj]

"Nine-Eleven" - Lois Griffin


"Karl-Malone" - jacobdrj

[Hornets1]

Picked Lebron, where is Hedo in this best player poll?

[Sdayi135]

8. iso man defense - LeBron has improved but Kobe's better. LeBron is better in help defense and getting in the passing lanes. Kobe's a better man defender

It's not a landslide either way. Whoever you think is better, it's close between the two. They're the two best players in the league.

IMO it's more decisive for Kobe than people may think. Kobe is 100X the individual defender LeBron could ever dream of being.

One player's been on the all-NBA defensive first team multiple times, while the other has yet to reach that level.

[jacobdrj]

IMO it's more decisive for Kobe than people may think. Kobe is 100X the individual defender LeBron could ever dream of being.

One player's been on the all-NBA defensive first team multiple times, while the other has yet to reach that level.

I look at this totally the other way: Kobe (and Billups) ever sniffing any of those 'all defense' teams takes legitimacy away from those 'all nba' teams. Kobe can defend, much like Amare can defend. But they choose not to except in rare instances (and Amare no longer at all). Kobe can defend for 30 seconds at a time, but 1 and a half possessions of defense per game does not a good defender make.

The potential to do something is not the same as actually doing it.

[TheMACHINE]

I look at this totally the other way: Kobe (and Billups) ever sniffing any of those 'all defense' teams takes legitimacy away from those 'all nba' teams. Kobe can defend, much like Amare can defend. But they choose not to except in rare instances (and Amare no longer at all). Kobe can defend for 30 seconds at a time, but 1 and a half possessions of defense per game does not a good defender make.

The potential to do something is not the same as actually doing it.

so all nba defensive teams are based on potential?

[JamStone]

Comparing Kobe's defense to Amare's defense is laughable. Kobe may not play all-out defense every single possession, particularly last year when he had better front court help behind him. But, he's no where near the apathetic revolving door Amare is on defense. Kobe "might" not have deserved all defense honors last year (though it's arguable he did), but the other seasons he's been honored, he did deserve being on the all defense teams he was selected to.

[TheMACHINE]

Take another look at the stats. Kobe shoots .1% better than LeBron. LeBron also has a lot more makes.



That's a midrange jumper as far as I'm concerned.



I disagree. Just because LeBron doesn't make it a staple in his game doesn't mean he can't do it or isn't better at it.



Using the glass isn't for everyone. You rarely see players use the glass on jump shots. You're normally taught to only use the glass on shots close to the basket.


Wait... Kobe gets triple teamed? LOL

Why limit it to jump shots? LeBron is better at drawing fouls and that's all that matters.



Why adjust when you don't have to? That's actually a weakness. I'd much rather have someone that finishes with and1's than I would someone who finishes with finesse.



Really? How many votes did Kobe get for DPOY again?



LOL You think?


Um, it is. His PER destroys Kobe. He took a team with way less talent to the best record in the league. He isn't close to LeBron as a player.


And? The bottom line is he's a far superior player.


The only thing Kobe is better at than LeBron is shooting midrange jump shots, the easiest jump shot to make... and the worst shot in basketball to take.


Regardless of your rebuttles...jamstone still named more then 1 thing that Kobe does better than Lebron.

I'd like to add another: Win.

[Culburn369]

Yep, James looked mighty puny Vs. Orlando.

[Sdayi135]

Really? How many votes did Kobe get for DPOY again?



And how many all-NBA defense teams has LeBron been voted on?