Should the Spurs Be Shopping Tony Parker?

[MrFundamental]

Should the Spurs Be Shopping Tony Parker? (http://butthegameison.com/blog/12174/should-the-spurs-be-shopping-tony-parker/)


The San Antonio Spurs have made quite a few moves to improve their ball club this off-season. From trading for Richard Jefferson (http://butthegameison.com/blog/10447/spurs-rob-the-milwaukee-bucks-with-a-lopsided-deal/) to drafting DeJaun Blair, who seemed to be a lottery talent, in the second round (http://butthegameison.com/blog/gwu) of the 2009 NBA Draft, the Spurs front office is clearly making a push for a final title with Tim Duncan as the team leader.

However, adding Jefferson put the Spurs in a position they are not accustom to. Normally, the Spurs ran their franchise around three eight-figure contract guys, which has been Tony Parker, Manu Ginobli and Duncan over the past few years, and surrounded them with lesser cost players that worked hard - making the DeJuan Blair pick that much more meaningful and brilliant. Jefferson comes to San Antonio with a $14.2 million contract. That ranks second on the team, behind Tim Duncan’s $22.2 million deal, and in front of Tony Parker’s $12.6 million contract and Manu Ginobli’s $10.7 million paycheck. San Antonio will start this season with a $78,296,230 payroll, compared to $68,118,085 from last year. Looking at those numbers alone, I would have to assume that a team that has used the same formula for the last decade would trade off one of their more expensive players to get back to three players that make over $10 million.

To get this out of the way, the Spurs won’t trade Tim Duncan and it would be dumb for them to trade Jefferson again this season, so that narrows it down to two guys.

Of the four players that have big contracts, the first player the Spurs would look to deal would be Manu Ginobli. Ginobli is 32 years old and has a horrendous injury history, so it’s logical that the team would want to get rid of him even if they didn’t trade for Jefferson. Manu will be a free agent next season, so this is a good chance for the Spurs to get something back for him just in case they don’t plan on extending him. However, for the same reason, other teams may shy away from giving the Spurs something for a 32-year old that seems to care more about his country than his NBA team when they could get him as a free agent next year if they really wanted him.

And yes, that leaves Tony Parker, the 27 year old french man that seemingly burst on to the seen last season as an elite point guard in the NBA. After averaging 22 points and seven assists last season, Parker’s value will never be higher and the Spurs have a chance to turn one star player into a couple, while freeing up cap space. When looking at other teams in the league that could offer a young star point guard for Parker, a few come to mind. Devin Harris of the Nets was my initial thought, but that wouldn’t make much sense because in all honesty, I’d take Harris over Parker if I were starting a team today. However, my second idea was a little better.

Who says no to this?

Tony Parker and Ian Mahinmi to the Boston Celtics for Rajon Rondo, Brian Scalabrine, Bill Walker and Kendrick Perkins

The Celtics get a great point guard with championship experience as well as a young center that can develop as a back-up to Rasheed Wallace, while the Spurs get a younger point guard who has amazing potential and plays with championship experience (Oh, and he makes $10 million less) and a strong rebounding center that can handle guys like Andrew Bynum and Dwight Howard come playoff time. Bill Walker and Brian Scalabrine were both throw-ins to get the money to measure out, but putting Matt Bonner on the same team as Scalabrine is an added benefit of this deal.

With the Celtics having off-season issues with Rondo, with rumors of him being dealt to Detroit coming from incidents between Rajon and Doc Rivers and the Spurs irking Tony Parker when they told him to come home from his international completion, it seems like the right time for this swap of all-star caliber point guards. Also, if this deal was completed, it would put the Spurs back at the usual $68,164,231 payroll.
What do you guys think, should we get rid of one of the best PGs in the league and a stellar prospect C for a (supposed) head case and Perkins?

[ChumpDumper]

No, they shouldn't be shopping Tony Parker.

[PM5K]

That might happen next, next season but not this season, the idea for this season was to go with a four headed (4 1/2 Blair?) monster to compete with the other handful of stacked teams in the league.

BUT, if that doesn't work you might see something different, and much cheaper the year after.

[DAF86]

lol Lakers fans.

[SonOfAGun]

Manu has a "horrendus injury history" for being banged up the last two seasons?

[SpurNation]

No

[Mel_13]

Link for the blog in your OP:
http://butthegameison.com/blog/12174/should-the-spurs-be-shopping-tony-parker/

The blogger in question believes that if the Spurs trade two players that make a combined $13.6M for four players that make a combined $11M the result will be a $10M reduction in payroll. On a positive note, his math skills exceed his abilities to analyze NBA basketball.

[Macca76]

No fucking way

[Texas_Ranger]

lol lakers fans.

+1

[spursballer21]

we have george hill he is the future i bet

[jgome21]

if the spurs shop tony parker, then there screwed. hes a top 5 point guard in the league and it probably the number 1 scoring pg in the league. it would be stupid to trade him. he is unguardable. the only way to stop him, is if he misses his own jump shots. hes not even in his prime yet and he is a veteran in our system. it would be stupid to trade him. and this thread is stupid too. stop wit the TP trades.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

:pctoss fvck

[anonoftheinternets]

this article is terrible ...

[spursfaninla]

Normally, the Spurs ran their franchise around three eight-figure contract guys, which has been Tony Parker, Manu Ginobli and Duncan over the past few years, and surrounded them with lesser cost players that worked hard - making the DeJuan Blair pick that much more meaningful and brilliant. Jefferson comes to San Antonio with a $14.2 million contract. That ranks second on the team, behind Tim Duncan’s $22.2 million deal, and in front of Tony Parker’s $12.6 million contract and Manu Ginobli’s $10.7 million paycheck. San Antonio will start this season with a $78,296,230 payroll, compared to $68,118,085 from last year. Looking at those numbers alone, I would have to assume that a team that has used the same formula for the last decade would trade off one of their more expensive players to get back to three players that make over $10 million.

This author (I use that term loosely here) makes an assumption that does not make sense; that because we are over the tax, we must be trying to get rid of a player.

However, the front office said they are changing their philosophy about spending for this year. Thus, this trade does not make sense for the Spurs.

Celtics are not really interested in this trade, either, I think, because Perkins is their starting C and is their best young bigman.

However, I must admit that Rondo and Perkins for an unproven rookie bigman and Parker is an interesting thought.

[UnWantedTheory]

Retardiculous...uggh.

[portnoy1]

I would do it in a heartbeat!!!! WHY? because the spurs are loading up on talent Jefferson / Manu / Duncan can all give you 17-25pts a game. When you have that kind of talent, you need someone to give them the ball. Parker is not that kind of guard to take 6less shots a game and pass more. Rondo Knows how to play with talent and how to insert himself in the offense when nessecary. The Celtics were without KG and still managed to get to the second round because of the play of Rondo. Pierce is the only significant guy on the team. Allen as hot as he was is still a shooter and got his points from the play-making/play running of Rondo. The Spurs had Tim Duncan as their only other significant star, Parker scored 30-40pts /5-8ast and nobody else was involved and they got beat in the first round convincingly. With Rondo at the point for the spurs Duncan /Jefferson / Manu can just put up points while Rondo makes sure that the role players are involved enough to keep the opposing defenses moving, While Perkins gives you 10pts 10rbs 2blks+ much needed physicality downlow.

[spurs4real]

That might happen next, next season but not this season, the idea for this season was to go with a four headed (4 1/2 Blair?) monster to compete with the other handful of stacked teams in the league.

BUT, if that doesn't work you might see something different, and much cheaper the year after.

Yes we need to trade Parker and PM5K who that girl in the pic?

[Mel_13]

Answer: 1hr 44m

Question: How long does it take for portnoy1 to hop on a 'trade Parker' thread.


I admire your persistence.

[DPG21920]

There are only a handful of players I would even consider trading TP for, and none of the other teams would ever give up that much, so it make no sense.

If Tim went down for good, then I would consider getting multiple pieces for TP along with picks, but not Rondo and Perkins.

[duncan228]

On a positive note, his math skills exceed his abilities to analyze NBA basketball.

:lol

[Brutalis]

Pathetic thread much less thought.

[exstatic]

Tony Parker and Ian Mahinmi to the Boston Celtics for Rajon Rondo, Brian Scalabrine, Bill Walker and Kendrick Perkins

Stopped reading right there. No need to go further. Rondo and Perkins are both asses, and the other two are scrubs.

If the Spurs are shopping Parker, and I doubt it, they can do much better than an offer featuring Boston's #4 guy.

[lotr1trekkie]

Duh!!!!!

[hater]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/54/mutant_facepalm.jpg

[Chieflion]

This article says shop him to see what value he has, not trade him. Why are all of you so paranoid?

[angelbelow]

Nope.

[angelbelow]

This article says shop him to see what value he has, not trade him. Why are all of you so paranoid?

But you have to admit, this is a retarded idea. Shop him to see his value. How exactly are you supposed to gauge someones value by doing this?

[Chieflion]

But you have to admit, this is a retarded idea. Shop him to see his value. How exactly are you supposed to gauge someones value by doing this?
By looking at the average offer. And if someone is stupid enough to offer something like Greg Oden (starting to live up to expectations) + Martell Webster (damn good at shooting) + Jerryd Bayless (this guy is good) + 1st round pick 2010 unprotected, you take it and run.

[Chieflion]

Well sure, if you want to increase Portland's chances of winning the NBA title in 2010 while decreasing the Spurs chances of winning the same.
I said if Oden lives up to expectations. Which is supposed to be Dwight Howard second season-like. And Bayless and lock down a PG if he wanted to.

[Mel_13]

I said if Oden lives up to expectations. Which is supposed to be Dwight Howard second season-like. And Bayless and lock down a PG if he wanted to.


So.......

"if someone is stupid enough to offer something like Greg Oden (starting to live up to expectations) + Martell Webster (damn good at shooting) + Jerryd Bayless (this guy is good) + 1st round pick 2010 unprotected"

you actually would not "take it and run"

Got it

[Chieflion]

So.......

"if someone is stupid enough to offer something like Greg Oden (starting to live up to expectations) + Martell Webster (damn good at shooting) + Jerryd Bayless (this guy is good) + 1st round pick 2010 unprotected"

you actually would not "take it and run"

Got it
Too scared to admit Oden may just become a great center of this generation and deleted your previous post. Got it.

[Mel_13]

Too scared to admit Oden may just become a great center of this generation and deleted your previous post. Got it.

I quoted the wrong post and moved the comments to respond to your post. I stand by my remarks. You were the one who said you would "take it and run" and then changed it to "if Oden improves".

Trading Parker for the package you suggested lessens the Spurs chances in 2010 and improves the Blazers.

I would not make the trade today.

Would you?

[Udokafan05]

These are the dumbest threads. Why would they trade a top 3 pg who gives your team the best chance to win it all next season? Just use your brain.

[DPG21920]

It would only even start to make sense if the Spurs had no chance to win a title any more. As of now, they do. If that changes drastically, then you may consider it if you get a no brainer.

[completely deck]

this thread. its the worst

[spursfan1000]

Fuck it lets trade Duncan too

[Nathan Explosion]

Devin Harris of the Nets was my initial thought, but that wouldn’t make much sense because in all honesty, I’d take Harris over Parker if I were starting a team today

This sentence alone discredits any opinion the guy has. One is a really good PG who's lightening fast. The other is a Top 3 PG, who's lightening fast, and is a Finals MVP.

Why would you choose Harris over Parker? There is no rational reason why someone would choose Harris over Parker in any sense.

[DJB]

Nope.

[angelbelow]

By looking at the average offer. And if someone is stupid enough to offer something like Greg Oden (starting to live up to expectations) + Martell Webster (damn good at shooting) + Jerryd Bayless (this guy is good) + 1st round pick 2010 unprotected, you take it and run.

Yea if you get a deal like that you take it and run. But again, is that realistic? Because there is a good chance we won't get a deal like that and a good chance that you'll create a distraction to the team. The Cons outweight the Pros mang.

[mabrignani]

"I’d take Harris over Parker if I were starting a team today."

that explains the whole article

[mabrignani]

This sentence alone discredits any opinion the guy has. One is a really good PG who's lightening fast. The other is a Top 3 PG, who's lightening fast, and is a Finals MVP.

Why would you choose Harris over Parker? There is no rational reason why someone would choose Harris over Parker in any sense.

haha i didnt see this post before i posted. you are totally right

[loveforthegame]

Let's trade him to make room for Bowen.

[spursfan1000]

The only way I would trade Parker is for someone like Brook Lopez.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

What a terrible uninformed atricle! Even Portnoy, or whatever his name was, knows more about the CBA than this guy.

[kace]

anyway, anyone who wants to make an article about the spurs and the strategy they should use should at least know how to spell the name of one of their best player. G.I.N.O.B.I.L.I and not Ginobli as he wrote the whole article.

[Chieflion]

The only way I would trade Parker is for someone like Brook Lopez.
I am confused. Brook Lopez is a good center but is racking up stats on a weak team where he is the 3rd option. On the other hand, Oden is in a position where his PER 36 is higher than Lopez's and is number 1 in the league in the Spurs' weakest department, offensive rebounding.

[MrFundamental]

Link for the blog in your OP:
http://butthegameison.com/blog/12174/should-the-spurs-be-shopping-tony-parker/

The blogger in question believes that if the Spurs trade two players that make a combined $13.6M for four players that make a combined $11M the result will be a $10M reduction in payroll. On a positive note, his math skills exceed his abilities to analyze NBA basketball.
:rollin

It only makes sense he's a Lakers fan.


Fuck it lets trade Duncan too
I bet we could get Mutumbo and McGrady from Houston!

[MrFundamental]

"I’d take Harris over Parker if I were starting a team today."

that explains the whole article
I think:
http://butthegameison.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/butthegameison_header.png

explains the whole article! :toast

[MrFundamental]

These are the dumbest threads. Why would they trade a top 3 pg who gives your team the best chance to win it all next season? Just use your brain.
Hey, don't blame the thread. I saw a hilarious article by some dumbass Lakers fan and felt like sharing. :corn:

[Mel_13]

He's a Texas Tech student and self-proclaimed fan of the Hornets.

http://butthegameison.com/blog/about/

His words, not mine:

Mark also won a Twitter contest when met up with Andre Iguodala and Rudy Gay at a Cheesecake Factory in Las Vegas, after both players summoned their followers to hunt them down.

Mark plans on using this blog as a spring board to launch his journalism career after he graduates from college.

[completely deck]

better get those springs fixed, kiddo

[vander]

I would trade TP for 15 first round picks, maybe 14

[easy7]

That's crazy insane...

[Agloco]

NO
http://www.eatmedaily.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/mimitw-1.jpg

[DaBears]

TPis probably the most Valued player SPURS currently have, it would not be wise to trade your best player. By best player i mean one that is valued the highest in terms of current productivity.

[DaBears]

I wish the NBA did have more of the combo point gaurds like back in the day. PG's that could play both the PG and the SG. Like Penny Hardaway, Ron Harper, Grant Hill of his younger days, he was a Point forward but was able to play multiple positions.

[DaBears]

Then i might have traded TP for on of them, but talent would need to be at same level of skills as TP is, nothing less.

[MrFundamental]

He's a Texas Tech student and self-proclaimed fan of the Hornets.
So it seems he just wants some Kobe lovin'

better get those springs fixed, kiddo
:lmao

[TheSullyMonster]

I would trade TP for 15 first round picks, maybe 14

In a good draft year.

[portnoy1]

Whenever a team has a whole bunch of talented OFFENSIVE players its important to have a point guard who just looks for them in areas where they excel. Parker has Duncan ( post up player / midrange jumpshooter ) Ginobili ( Slasher / 3pt shooter ) Jefferson ( All the above+ dunker ) at his disposal. For all 3 guys to reach their full potential you need a point guard who is willing to give up shots to make sure these legit 20pt scorers get the ball in areas where they can easily score. The spurs have the big 3 in Parker/Duncan/Manu and always build around those 3 as the focal point. Thats why guys like Michael Finley/Brent Barry and a few other seemingly big free agents the Spurs have gotten end up being nothing more than spot-up shooters. Thats why I dont understand the RJ trade. Where does he fit in if Manu stays healthy? He wont get enough shots to be as effective as in all the previous years he's been in the league. With Parker gone and a traditional point guard in place, Tim/RJ/Manu can all get 15-20 shots each a game.

[timaios]

I have an orgasm each time I read the title thread !

[MrFundamental]

Tim/RJ/Manu can all get 15-20 shots each a game.
Manu's never really come close to averaging over 15 shots a game. And if you average out shots between the 4 a game, it's still less then giving 20 shots to each Timmy, Manu, and RJ (not even considering the former 2 will likely play more limited minutes the regular season).

[SpurNation]

Whenever a team has a whole bunch of talented OFFENSIVE players its important to have a point guard who just looks for them in areas where they excel. Parker has Duncan ( post up player / midrange jumpshooter ) Ginobili ( Slasher / 3pt shooter ) Jefferson ( All the above+ dunker ) at his disposal. For all 3 guys to reach their full potential you need a point guard who is willing to give up shots to make sure these legit 20pt scorers get the ball in areas where they can easily score. The spurs have the big 3 in Parker/Duncan/Manu and always build around those 3 as the focal point. Thats why guys like Michael Finley/Brent Barry and a few other seemingly big free agents the Spurs have gotten end up being nothing more than spot-up shooters. Thats why I dont understand the RJ trade. Where does he fit in if Manu stays healthy? He wont get enough shots to be as effective as in all the previous years he's been in the league. With Parker gone and a traditional point guard in place, Tim/RJ/Manu can all get 15-20 shots each a game.

I can agree with this assesment but have to also disagree with the expectation.

Parker can be (and has been a very effective assist PG). The problem with the end of the season last year was that Parker was called upon to be a points leader since Ginobili and Duncan were either not available or hobbled with injury.

That role took a toll on Parker's body and ability to play a full game effectively. The addition of RJ and a healthy Manu only opens the opportunity for Parker to be more of a distributor and less of a scorer. A role I think he will relish. Especially if some of the focal point of opposing defenses will be forced to defend against RJ and Manu at the same time.

I also think Parker is not a Ball Hog but rather a mature effective Point Guard who just happens to have the ability to score at will when needed.

This coming season...the Spurs won't be "needing" Parker to score 24 a game and hence his assists per game will probably rise having the offensive weapons that the Spurs now possess.

Because of that...I think Parker will become a top 5 leader in both points and assists regarding PG's in the league.

So No...I wouldn't be shopping Parker until after the Duncan era has come to a close. The window of winning another championship is getting narrower and the Spurs need all the proven and Spurs experienced players it can afford to keep.

[portnoy1]

Manu's never really come close to averaging over 15 shots a game. And if you average out shots between the 4 a game, it's still less then giving 20 shots to each Timmy, Manu, and RJ (not even considering the former 2 will likely play more limited minutes the regular season).
Ok fair enough. However what killed us in the playoffs was the role players not being involved in the offense. Half of that is fault/responsibility of the point guard. By having a point guard who understands Strengths of all the players ( Role players especially ) everyone can thrive regardless of who is in or out of the Lineup.

[portnoy1]

I can agree with this assesment but have to also disagree with the expectation.

Parker can be (and has been a very effective assist PG). The problem with the end of the season last year was that Parker was called upon to be a points leader since Ginobili and Duncan were either not available or hobbled with injury.

That role took a toll on Parker's body and ability to play a full game effectively. The addition of RJ and a healthy Manu only opens the opportunity for Parker to be more of a distributor and less of a scorer. A role I think he will relish. Especially if some of the focal point of opposing defenses will be forced to defend against RJ and Manu at the same time.

I also think Parker is not a Ball Hog but rather a mature effective Point Guard who just happens to have the ability to score at will when needed.

This coming season...the Spurs won't be "needing" Parker to score 24 a game and hence his assists per game will probably rise having the offensive weapons that the Spurs now possess.

Because of that...I think Parker will become a top 5 leader in both points and assists regarding PG's in the league.

So No...I wouldn't be shopping Parker until after the Duncan era has come to a close. The window of winning another championship is getting narrower and the Spurs need all the proven and Spurs experienced players it can afford to keep.
Parker Loves to score. Thats not exactly the best attitude for a point guard to have. In an Interview Parker said "I likes having Duncan out for a little while, since that gives me an opportunity to show what I can do". Parker had a couple of 30pt games and junk. He loves to score and looks to score first. Contrast, Deron Williams had 5 straight games where score 30+pts, when asked about that accomplishment he said "I'm not interested in keep a streak of 30pt games going, I'm a distributor and thats what I do best, actually I need to cut my turnovers down and play a liitle more disciplined". Williams understands his role as a point guard. So if the spurs keep Parker, fine. I'm cool with it. As long as they put pieces around him that wont take away his touches. I think RJ will either suffer scoring-wise or Parker will take 5-7 less shots a game. I ask you, which of the above do you think will happen?

[DPG21920]

Uhhhhhh, out of all of those guys, Parker is the most legit 20 PPG scorer and he is efficient. They should defer to him.

[spursfan09]

Parker is our best scoring option. If Lebron or Kobe was on the team then id be pissed if he didn't pass. But theyre not so I prefer to not give up our number 1 scoring option.

[vander]

In a good draft year.

that would be ok too, but I meant having a team's first round pick for 15 years :greedy

[Mel_13]

Parker Loves to score. Thats not exactly the best attitude for a point guard to have. In an Interview Parker said "I likes having Duncan out for a little while, since that gives me an opportunity to show what I can do". Parker had a couple of 30pt games and junk. He loves to score and looks to score first. Contrast, Deron Williams had 5 straight games where score 30+pts, when asked about that accomplishment he said "I'm not interested in keep a streak of 30pt games going, I'm a distributor and thats what I do best, actually I need to cut my turnovers down and play a liitle more disciplined". Williams understands his role as a point guard. So if the spurs keep Parker, fine. I'm cool with it. As long as they put pieces around him that wont take away his touches. I think RJ will either suffer scoring-wise or Parker will take 5-7 less shots a game. I ask you, which of the above do you think will happen?

To a large degree, both will happen. RJ's offensive numbers will be significantly lower as he goes from being a first option to being a 3rd/4th option.

Tony's shots per game will also go down as long as TD, Manu, and RJ remain in the line-up. You only have to look at last year's numbers to see that. From Dec 1st until the end of the season, TP played 40 games with Manu in the line-up and 25 without him. In the games without Manu, he averaged 19.36 shots per game. With Manu in the line-up, he averaged 16.47 shots per game.

With Manu and RJ both in the line-up and TD getting his normal touches, it is quite reasonable to expect around 15 shots per game from Tony rather than 20.

[portnoy1]

To a large degree, both will happen. RJ's offensive numbers will be significantly lower as he goes from being a first option to being a 3rd/4th option.

Tony's shots per game will also go down as long as TD, Manu, and RJ remain in the line-up. You only have to look at last year's numbers to see that. From Dec 1st until the end of the season, TP played 40 games with Manu in the line-up and 25 without him. In the games without Manu, he averaged 19.36 shots per game. With Manu in the line-up, he averaged 16.47 shots per game.

With Manu and RJ both in the line-up and TD getting his normal touches, it is quite reasonable to expect around 15 shots per game from Tony rather than 20.Ok, if we agree or disagree I have to say, I really appreciate the fact that you did research an stuff. Alot of guys here talk but dont have any numbers to back what their sayin. Props to you!! and I hope your right about what said above, Cause with all the talent the spurs have its going to take some flawless decision-making by parker to make it all work.

[SpurNation]

So if the spurs keep Parker, fine. I'm cool with it. As long as they put pieces around him that wont take away his touches. I think RJ will either suffer scoring-wise or Parker will take 5-7 less shots a game. I ask you, which of the above do you think will happen?

That's just it. The pieces they put around Parker is going to make Parker become an even more effective player (PG). His role of prominant scorer was not a case of whether Parker "preferred" to score more so than a neccessity he did score.

I'm not going to pretend that Parker doesn't like to score either...What nba player doesn't? But for the sake of the team and winning championships...I think Parker won't have a problem reducing his shot attempts per game by 5 to 7 if he knows his assists will rise by at least 4 to 5 per game.

Also...it will depend on the situation each game presents. If needed...Parker will have games where he might have to score 24 to 28. But the beauty of it all is he now has other players that can take that load off his shoulders.

He didn't have that luxury last year and I'm sure he would have liked to.

But again...the question is...Should the Spurs Be Shopping Tony Parker?

Why would the Spurs (and personally me for that matter) want to get rid of a known scoring commodity that can also assist for a player that can only assist and not score?

[portnoy1]

?

Why would the Spurs (and personally me for that matter) want to get rid of a known scoring commodity that can also assist for a player that can only assist and not score?Meaning Rondo or what?

[SpurNation]

Meaning Rondo or what?

Meaning (the Spurs) have a PG (Tony Parker) that can provide both scoring and assists.

That's a great feature to have in your PG and during this critical window of opportunity to winning a championship I wouldn't shop/trade that for a PG that could only provide 1 of those talents.

[portnoy1]

There's a small handful of point guards that can score and dish out better than parker. So it really depends on who your shopping him for.

[SpurNation]

There's a small handful of point guards that can score and dish out better than parker. So it really depends on who your shopping him for.

And if you were one of those "other" teams would you trade a (supposedly but doubt) better PG than Parker for Parker?

[ambchang]

Let me get this straight, you have a PG who shot 55, 52, 49, and 51% from the field the last 4 years, can get in the paint whenever he pleases, and you are asking him not to score?

To top it off, the same PG plays the pick and roll with your franchise PF flawlessly, is a master of the drive and kick, and you are saying that he is not a good distributor?

Finally, there are 2, maybe 3 PGs in the whole league that you would consider an upgrade over your current PG, and the owners of those 2 or 3 PG will never ever do the trade. So where is the trade going to come from?

BTW, Parker averaged 17.5 shots a game last year, Duncan 14.8, and Manu 11.2, with Mason averging 10, and Gooden, Bonner and Finley all > 5 shots a game. It's a relatively balanced attack.

[Bukefal]

Why get rid of your best player? :lol

[Lackluster]

bonner, finley, and mason's post season shooting wasn't a result of a lack of "rondo-like" playmaking. if tony doesn't drop 25-30 ppg in that series we come out a helluva lot worse.

understand the caliber of players rondo has around him. ray allen is one of the best guards in the league at moving without the ball. during the playoffs i remember seeing a play that boston runs fairly often where ray ray runs pretty much the entire perimeter of the half court set, runs underneath the basket, gets like 3 screens in the process, and spots up to catch an easy pass for a wide open shot... this ain't cp3/nash/kidd style play making. it's having a couple of hall of famers on the court with you that know where to be.

a great championship team will have guys that can get themselves open and create their own offense when needed. no high assist averaging point guard has won the chip since magic. not stockton, nash, kidd, paul (although he's young). manu, td, and rj don't need to be spoonfed. the cohesion will be there through a somewhat modified offense and parker will continue to run this team as seamless as he has - he's really a custom fit imo.

[Brazil]

Ok fair enough. However what killed us in the playoffs was the role players not being involved in the offense. Half of that is fault/responsibility of the point guard. By having a point guard who understands Strengths of all the players ( Role players especially ) everyone can thrive regardless of who is in or out of the Lineup.

:rolleyes and what about what killed us in the playoffs was loosing Manu and having role players like Finley and Udoka ?

[DMX7]

No, they shouldn't be shopping Tony Parker.

They should be shooting whoever wrote this garbage. TP shouldn't even be talked about in any kind of trade.

[Hornets1]

Nope, unless they are getting D-Will, Rose, or Paul

[Dex]

I think it's time for a facepalm emoticon.

[FkLA]

Ok, u guys seriously need to quit being homers...did u guys even watch the playoffs last year? Rondo was putting up triple-doubles basically every game, he was a fucken beast and the main reason the Cs took the Magic to 7 games. He's only like 23 and still has room to improve as well which is scary. Perkins is a proven serviceable big-man that can easily turn into a double-double guy, Mahinmi on the other hand is raw and can only hope that he pans out.

Now I dont think it will happen, nor do I blame anyone that wouldnt take this trade...but also dont act like this trade is completely crazy. If it were offered to the Spurs, which it wont be, I would want them to make the deal. Rondo is a pimp, he's a capable scorer and penetrator and a much better general than Tony will ever be.

[DPG21920]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhh you ^

[FkLA]

17 ppg, 10 apg, and 10 rpg in the playoffs and only 23 yrs old, add in Perkins who averaged 12 ppg and 12 rpg and is only 24 yrs old...and the Spurs would be stupid to not take this deal. Not only will they contribute now but once they develope even more and TD moves on, that would be a formidable future nucleus.

Not that it'll happen though, I dont think Boston would offer it.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Why get rid of your best player? :lol

We're not getting rid of Duncan.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i trade his sorry ass if the right package comes along...

[anakha]

i trade his sorry ass if the right package comes along...

You'd trade Parker regardless of the offer. :lol

[spursfan09]

i trade his sorry ass if the right package comes along...

Jealous?

You know we give alot of shit to Laker fans who are non stop on Kobe's jock, but Spur fans who don't even appreciate a great talent like TP on thier team are even more pathetic.

[TDMVPDPOY]

which part of the right package dont u supporters get the message?

yeh sure there are a few spurs supporters on here who hate certain players on the team, but no way are the haters going to trade a player for shit in return...this aint fkn memphis grizzlies.

[spursfan09]

you said "his sorry ass" which he isn't. He's a very good player. If you said "I would trade him for the right package" well thats a different story.

[anakha]

which part of the right package dont u supporters get the message?


Just referencing your Parker bashing in the not-so-distant past...

[vander]

We're not getting rid of Duncan.

I think TP is now the best player on the court for us

[lennyalderette]

speaking of parker do you know who is favored to win the next game, (refrence to the french team) because if they do win parker will be playing well into september with that ankle nopt resting

[portnoy1]

bonner, finley, and mason's post season shooting wasn't a result of a lack of "rondo-like" playmaking. if tony doesn't drop 25-30 ppg in that series we come out a helluva lot worse.

understand the caliber of players rondo has around him. ray allen is one of the best guards in the league at moving without the ball. during the playoffs i remember seeing a play that boston runs fairly often where ray ray runs pretty much the entire perimeter of the half court set, runs underneath the basket, gets like 3 screens in the process, and spots up to catch an easy pass for a wide open shot... this ain't cp3/nash/kidd style play making. it's having a couple of hall of famers on the court with you that know where to be.

a great championship team will have guys that can get themselves open and create their own offense when needed. no high assist averaging point guard has won the chip since magic. not stockton, nash, kidd, paul (although he's young). manu, td, and rj don't need to be spoonfed. the cohesion will be there through a somewhat modified offense and parker will continue to run this team as seamless as he has - he's really a custom fit imo.So your saying that finley being the good shooter that he is, couldnt come off of 2-3 screens and hit a few jumpshots to loosen the defense up? thats what i'm getting from your statement. A shooter is a shooter. Their are different ways of using them. If finley were on the C's he could probably avg. 10-14pts a game instead of 9. If ray allen were on the Spurs he would probably avg. 10-14pts a game instead of 18pts. simply because the C's move their shooters around on the court like Allen/House. The spurs STAND their shooters in the CORNER like Finley/Mason jr.

[Mel_13]

So your saying that finley being the good shooter that he is, couldnt come off of 2-3 screens and hit a few jumpshots to loosen the defense up? thats what i'm getting from your statement. A shooter is a shooter. Their are different ways of using them. If finley were on the C's he could probably avg. 10-14pts a game instead of 9. If ray allen were on the Spurs he would probably avg. 10-14pts a game instead of 18pts. simply because the C's move their shooters around on the court like Allen/House. The spurs STAND their shooters in the CORNER like Finley/Mason jr.

Let's assume for the moment that everything you say in this post is true.

Wouldn't the problem, as you see it, be with the coaching, the offensive schemes and the complementary players available and not necessarily with the point guard?

In the hypothetical scenario in which Parker is swapped for Rondo, are you really that sure that the Spurs offensive production would increase while the Celtics would see a drop in team offense?

[MrFundamental]

Ok, u guys seriously need to quit being homers...did u guys even watch the playoffs last year? Rondo was putting up triple-doubles basically every game
Did YOU watch the playoffs last year? He only put up 3 trip-doubles, and the only reason his averages were what they were was because of having one or two games with outlandish single category stats based on the fact no one else on that Celts team could do anything. He has no jumper, and the only reason he got to the rim as much as he did, was poor defending by the opposition.


He's only like 23 and still has room to improve as well which is scary.
:lmao So does Parker, that is scary. :wow


Perkins is a proven serviceable big-man that can easily turn into a double-double guy, Mahinmi on the other hand is raw and can only hope that he pans out.
Perkins didn't even average a double-double last year. And the only reason he did in the playoffs is because Garnett was out. Are you suggesting Perkins would be our #1 big man. :wtf

And your main argument for Rondo is that he is young. Are you trying to say Mahinmi is old and can't improve?


Rondo is a pimp, he's a capable scorer and penetrator and a much better general than Tony will ever be.
Rondo's a fluke, headcase that was actually getting shopped. Tony is a much better scorer, penetrator, and (after this year will show :lobt2:) better General then Rondo will ever be.

[DaBears]

Tony Parker for Mayor

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Whoever wrote that post doesn't know very much about the Spurs in general. He must have missed the last few championship runs. He was born yesterday. You get my point.

And no, the Spurs shouldn't trade Parker unless he wants out.

[Brazil]

Parker for Rondo? maybe if there threw in a Perkins, it's a damn good trade


Rondo would average 12+ast as a Spur

you must be a portnoy1 troll or something... if rondo would average 12+ast as a spurs (:lmao) then CP3 would average 20+ast as a spur

[portnoy1]

Let's assume for the moment that everything you say in this post is true.

Wouldn't the problem, as you see it, be with the coaching, the offensive schemes and the complementary players available and not necessarily with the point guard?

In the hypothetical scenario in which Parker is swapped for Rondo, are you really that sure that the Spurs offensive production would increase while the Celtics would see a drop in team offense?
Its not all Parkers fault. In another post I explained that half the problem in the Mavs series was Parkers. The other half was Pops. When Parker is asked to be just a distributor ( all supporting players from parkers era included ) Parker has lots of trouble. He has a hard time balancing Scoring and Passing, thats why I dont really say to much about Pop's coaching in the Mavs series. If he were to start calling every-play that would limit Parkers abilities to a large-degree. If you were to send Rondo to the spurs and he was given the current to command Minus Jefferson, I'm sure he would get better production from the role-players if Pop gave him the same freedom as Parker. If you put Parker on the C's minus Wallace then you would see significantly less scoring from Allen, but more scoring from the PG position ( Parker ) if Doc allowed Parker the same freedom as Rondo.

[SpurNation]

When Parker is asked to be just a distributor ( all supporting players from parkers era included ) Parker has lots of trouble. He has a hard time balancing Scoring and Passing,


Could this be because there was nobody else that could make something happen?

Next season will be a different situation with the new players (RJ) and a healthy Manu.

By the way...if Parker had the players that Rondo has to distribute to...he would have the same numbers also.

Rondo is a product of his environment more so than just being Rondo.

[kace]

apg is an overrated stat.


let's look at the teams with great assists PG.

we all know that, obviously, the teams with an assist first PG aren't winning the title the last years. that fact only should lead to the statement that a high apg PG isn't as great as some people say or think.

if you take two of the greatest assist PG in the league, often included and compared with TP in the top 3 nba PG rankings, D-Will and CP3, you see that when they're not on the court, their team have almost the same amount of assists per game.

for Utah, it's 24,6 with D-Will and 24 without him (14 games missed in 08-9)

for NOH, it's 20,2 apg with CP3, 19.5 without him (even if it's a small sample of 4 games in 08-09).



let's now look at the percentage of points assisted of the 6 teams whom PG have more than 8 apg and are considered as assists first PG/ "floor generals":
NOH (55%), Mavs (57%), Suns (56%), Utah (64%), toronto (60%) and Boston (55%).

LA is at 58% and the Spurs at 57%, which means with or above most of these teams (except maybe Utah that is a little ahead).

let's be clear, i think that CP3, Dwill and most of these PG are great and useful players.

but, again, the APG stat alone is an overrated stat IMO.


PS: stats from NBA.com and 82games.com

[Macca76]

Its not all Parkers fault. In another post I explained that half the problem in the Mavs series was Parkers. The other half was Pops. When Parker is asked to be just a distributor ( all supporting players from parkers era included ) Parker has lots of trouble. He has a hard time balancing Scoring and Passing, thats why I dont really say to much about Pop's coaching in the Mavs series. If he were to start calling every-play that would limit Parkers abilities to a large-degree. If you were to send Rondo to the spurs and he was given the current to command Minus Jefferson, I'm sure he would get better production from the role-players if Pop gave him the same freedom as Parker. If you put Parker on the C's minus Wallace then you would see significantly less scoring from Allen, but more scoring from the PG position ( Parker ) if Doc allowed Parker the same freedom as Rondo.

Honestly, only a few can bring the PO games against Dallas as a case against TP !
Unbelievale ! The guy had the best series of his life, and he was the only reason this series vaguely looked like one. We would have been spanked by 20 pts each game if it was not for TP. No one could hit a shot and of course it was because TP wouldn't want to share the ball! He averaged 6.9 assts in the series, exactly the same as reg. season. Do you remember when what happened when TP tried to involve everyone (like a assist first PG) or when he was out of the game? Spanked each time !

When I hear you, saying " we've got good scorers, we need an assist first PG !", I can't help but think Suns or Warriors => good idea, wreally should change our game philosophy which brought 4 titles (3 with TP as you know). What we need is a PG who scores because the team is designed for this.

One last thing, look at the above stats (2009 PO efficiency) , and look for the eff. , TP is 8th and 5th / 48 min, for what it's worth :smokin

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp?league=00&season=42008&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&sortOrder=6&splitDD=All%20Teams

[spurs10]

Anyone who thinks we should shop Tony has got to be a Lakers fan. He's a horrible match-up for L.A. and will give them much grief in the coming season.

[Blackjack]

How did this get to 5 pages?

The Spurs go all-in, throw caution to the win in regards to luxury-tax, and do so with the sole purpose of trying to get another ring while Tim and Manu are still capable of completeing the Big 3, but they should entertain trading Parker?

Again.:shootme

[portnoy1]

The bottom line is that we'll have to wait and see. I dont think Parker will effectively Run the offense, Especially sense he'll have no excuse not to give up the ball. He have a healthy Manu Tim and Richard as oppose to Mason, Finley and Bonner. However maybe with the right pieces in place now, he will run a flawless offense With a deron williams type approach, LIKE - Take your shots here and there, but make sure you run the offense kinda thing. Deron Williams take his share of shots but still manages to keep J.Sloan happy. If Parker can do that+Pop adds in more diverse plays in the offense ( Involving Jefferson ofcourse. Back-cuts / lobs ) Then we'll go all the way. If not, Try to trade before it gets to close to the Deadline, that way whoever you bring in will have a decent time to adjust.

[honestfool84]

The bottom line is that we'll have to wait and see. I dont think Parker will effectively Run the offense, Especially sense he'll have no excuse not to give up the ball. He have a healthy Manu Tim and Richard as oppose to Mason, Finley and Bonner. However maybe with the right pieces in place now, he will run a flawless offense With a deron williams type approach, LIKE - Take your shots here and there, but make sure you run the offense kinda thing. Deron Williams take his share of shots but still manages to keep J.Sloan happy. If Parker can do that+Pop adds in more diverse plays in the offense ( Involving Jefferson ofcourse. Back-cuts / lobs ) Then we'll go all the way. If not, Try to trade before it gets to close to the Deadline, that way whoever you bring in will have a decent time to adjust.



it's hard to take anything you say seriously when you show how stupid you are with EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR POSTS full of animosity towards tony parker.

[FkLA]

Did YOU watch the playoffs last year? He only put up 3 trip-doubles, and the only reason his averages were what they were was because of having one or two games with outlandish single category stats based on the fact no one else on that Celts team could do anything. He has no jumper, and the only reason he got to the rim as much as he did, was poor defending by the opposition.

He was at or near a triple-double very often during the playoffs, thats impressive regardless of how u try to spin it. He has no jumper? Its better than Tony's thats for sure, and stop it with the poor defending bullshit...so I guess everytime Tony blows by someone its poor defending as well? Give credit where credit is due, Rondo was a beast in the playoffs.



:lmao So does Parker, that is scary. :wow

You cant really compare 23 to 27, Parker still has room to improve no doubt but nowhere near as much as Rondo.



Perkins didn't even average a double-double last year. And the only reason he did in the playoffs is because Garnett was out. Are you suggesting Perkins would be our #1 big man. :wtf

And your main argument for Rondo is that he is young. Are you trying to say Mahinmi is old and can't improve?

I said he's very capable of being a double-double guy...he averaged like 9 and 9 in the reg season last yr and he's 24. Im not saying he should be our #1 big man, Im saying he could contribute now and if he developes as planned should be a solid 15-10 guy.

Mahinmi is an unknown, as much as u guys want to play him up...he is raw and we have no idea what he will do this season. I hope he does great but u really cant predict how well he'll do.


Rondo's a fluke, headcase that was actually getting shopped. Tony is a much better scorer, penetrator, and (after this year will show :lobt2:) better General then Rondo will ever be.

This shit is getting so overplayed, one small outburst by Rondo and he's a headcase? So I guess Tony is a headcase for speaking out against the Spurs during the French NT injury?

And Parker is the better player at the moment, dont get this idea that I think Tony is trash or that I dont like him....but Rondo can hold his own and is only 23. I just had a problem with all these Spurs fans viewing the trade like it was laughable or something when in reality its not a bad trade proposal at all. Youre getting Rondo who is already a good player and has tons of upside and Perkins who is proven and a better guarantee than Mahinmi. Its actually not a bad trade if u dont let the homerism blind, not that its actually going to happen though. I dont think either team is even remotely considering this trade.

[DPG21920]

TP's jumper >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rondo's jumper.

[Chieflion]

TP's jumper >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rondo's jumper.
I don't think the Spurs paid Tony to shoot jumpers, do you? I don't think the Celtics pay Rondo for his shooting, do you?

[DPG21920]

What? Yes. The Spurs pay TP to score. That is not the point. The guy above said Rondo's jumper was better than TP's. That is false.

[Macca76]

I don't think the Spurs paid Tony to shoot jumpers, do you? I don't think the Celtics pay Rondo for his shooting, do you?

Actually, I do think that in a way, the spurs pay TP to shoot jumpers, that's why they Hired Chip Engelland. A part of TP's salary is due for his improved jumper, because that's what makes him a nightmare for opposite defenses.

[Darkwaters]

The author's logic is flawed. Just because cap situations were that way in the past doesn't mean that they MUST continue that way. This whole offseason has been unusual when it comes to salary figures. But the FO has stated that they're doing this intentionally. Now this poster is stating that we're going to flip it all back around? Don't think so.


hes not even in his prime yet and he is a veteran in our system.

Seriously? The dude is 27. When is he going to be in his prime if not now? In 3 years people will be talking about him breaking down because hes 30. No, hes in his prime NOW.

[Darkwaters]

I don't think the Spurs paid Tony to shoot jumpers, do you? I don't think the Celtics pay Rondo for his shooting, do you?

Being a good jump shooter makes you a better slasher. People have to respect your jump shot and that gives you more room to take it hard to the rack.

So, yes, the Spurs do pay tony to shoot jumpers.

[Chieflion]

Being a good jump shooter makes you a better slasher. People have to respect your jump shot and that gives you more room to take it hard to the rack.

So, yes, the Spurs do pay tony to shoot jumpers.
Not really. I mean Rondo still gets to the rack easily. They say it is easy to if you have Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett with you, but you will still have a guy sticking to you at all times.

I do agree that Parker is paid to shoot a little, but basically take every chance to attack the rim primarily. It would make me sick to see Parker chucking jump shots all day.

Parker did it well before in 2004, 2005 when his jump shot was terrible. That was how he was paid based upon.

[Muser]

He was at or near a triple-double very often during the playoffs, thats impressive regardless of how u try to spin it. He has no jumper? Its better than Tony's thats for sure, and stop it with the poor defending bullshit...so I guess everytime Tony blows by someone its poor defending as well? Give credit where credit is due, Rondo was a beast in the playoffs.




You cant really compare 23 to 27, Parker still has room to improve no doubt but nowhere near as much as Rondo.




I said he's very capable of being a double-double guy...he averaged like 9 and 9 in the reg season last yr and he's 24. Im not saying he should be our #1 big man, Im saying he could contribute now and if he developes as planned should be a solid 15-10 guy.

Mahinmi is an unknown, as much as u guys want to play him up...he is raw and we have no idea what he will do this season. I hope he does great but u really cant predict how well he'll do.



This shit is getting so overplayed, one small outburst by Rondo and he's a headcase? So I guess Tony is a headcase for speaking out against the Spurs during the French NT injury?

And Parker is the better player at the moment, dont get this idea that I think Tony is trash or that I dont like him....but Rondo can hold his own and is only 23. I just had a problem with all these Spurs fans viewing the trade like it was laughable or something when in reality its not a bad trade proposal at all. Youre getting Rondo who is already a good player and has tons of upside and Perkins who is proven and a better guarantee than Mahinmi. Its actually not a bad trade if u dont let the homerism blind, not that its actually going to happen though. I dont think either team is even remotely considering this trade.


:lmao

[SonOfAGun]

Parker is the best player on the Spurs. The offense quit running through TD years ago.

I don't like him, but that is truth.

[MrFundamental]

He was at or near a triple-double very often during the playoffs, thats impressive regardless of how u try to spin it.
No, he wasn't. I'm not spinning anything. He had a few outstanding games that exaggerated his stats.

He has no jumper? Its better than Tony's thats for sure,
You have got to be fucking kidding me. It's even a Boston joke that he needs shooting lessons. (http://www.celticsblog.com/2009/8/19/995578/ray-allen-will-teach-you-to-shoot)

and stop it with the poor defending bullshit...so I guess everytime Tony blows by someone its poor defending as well?
Yes, you think it's good defending to let Parker drive by you?

Hell, if you even think about it, the times Rose felt like defending, Rondo couldn't get a shot off.


You cant really compare 23 to 27, Parker still has room to improve no doubt but nowhere near as much as Rondo.
That is true, Rondo is really shitty, so his ceiling is much higher. :rolleyes


I said he's very capable of being a double-double guy...he averaged like 9 and 9 in the reg season last yr and he's 24. Im not saying he should be our #1 big man, Im saying he could contribute now and if he developes as planned should be a solid 15-10 guy.
http://kneejerknba.blogspot.com/2009/08/david-lee-meet-michael-cage.html


Mahinmi is an unknown, as much as u guys want to play him up...he is raw and we have no idea what he will do this season. I hope he does great but u really cant predict how well he'll do.
Of course not, just like you can't predict that Perkins will be anything but a 5/5 guy when not the #1.


This shit is getting so overplayed, one small outburst by Rondo and he's a headcase?
You really think one small outburst made Ainge want to get rid of such "a beast in the playoffs"? :wow

[Sissiborgo]

He's one of the best PG in the leauge! did one hell of a job last season!

[portnoy1]

Parker and Rondo arent in the same category. Parker is a big gun on the team who gives you 22-30pts/ 7ast a night. However Rondo is SOLID role player around Pierce/Garnett/Allen. If you put Rondo on the spurs and tell him to score 20-25pts like Parker then he would struggle. If you put Parker on the C's and tell him to run the offense and score when nessecary, then Parker would struggle. With the acquisition of RJ, I fail to see how that will make the spurs that much better. Instead of adding a big 4, they should have just continued adding Solid role-players around the big 3. This makes me think that RJ's game will suffer. Just like Parkers game would suffer if he went to the C's. The only reason I would trade Parker for Rondo/Perkins is because we have RJ. That way the big 3 of Tim/Manu/RJ can put up numbers while Rondo solely runs the offense, scoring when nessecary and Perkins grabs rebounds and gets blks to help Tim. With the big 3 of Tim/Manu/Tony, RJ now is gonna be a role-player with shadows of his former self like Finley, unless the spurs tweak their system.