Pau Gasol or Dirk Nowitzki, Who do you think is better? [Archive]

duncan228

08-21-2009, 02:04 PM

Whats with all the dumb ass polls lately?

Maybe it's a spin off from Dime.

We argue. You decide.

“Who’s better?” archives

8/21 - Shaq or Pau Gasol (http://dimemag.com/2009/08/whos-better-shaq-or-pau-gasol/)
8/19 — Andre Iguodala vs. Rudy Gay (http://dimemag.com/2009/08/whos-better-andre-iguodala-or-rudy-gay/)
8/14 — Ray Allen vs. Michael Redd (http://dimemag.com/2009/08/whos-better-ray-allen-or-michael-redd/)
8/12 — Steve Nash vs. Jason Kidd (http://dimemag.com/2009/08/whos-better-steve-nash-or-jason-kidd/)
3/3 — David West vs. LaMarcus Aldridge (http://dimemag.com/2009/03/whos-better-david-west-or-lamarcus-aldridge/)
2/26 — Kevin Durant vs. Danny Granger (http://dimemag.com/2009/02/whos-better-kevin-durant-or-danny-granger/)
2/19 — Paul Millsap vs. David Lee (http://dimemag.com/2009/02/whos-better-paul-millsap-or-david-lee/)
2/17 — Caron Butler vs. Tayshaun Prince (http://dimemag.com/2009/02/whos-better-caron-butler-or-tayshaun-prince/)
12/24 — Marcus Camby vs. Andrew Bynum (http://dimemag.com/2008/12/whos-better-marcus-camby-or-andrew-bynum/)
12/19 — Deron Williams vs. Chauncey Billups (http://dimemag.com/2008/12/whos-better-deron-williams-or-chauncey-billups/)
12/17 — Manu Ginobili vs. Tracy McGrady (http://dimemag.com/2008/12/whos-better-manu-ginobili-or-tracy-mcgrady/)
12/12 — Amare Stoudemire vs. Al Jefferson (http://dimemag.com/2008/12/whos-better-amare-stoudemire-or-al-jefferson/)
12/10 — Dirk Nowitzki vs. Chris Bosh (http://dimemag.com/2008/12/whos-better-dirk-nowitzki-or-chris-bosh/)
12/9 — Derrick Rose vs. O.J. Mayo (http://dimemag.com/2008/12/whos-better-derrick-rose-or-ojmayo/)
12/8 — Rasheed Wallace vs. Elton Brand (http://dimemag.com/2008/12/whos-better-rasheed-wallace-or-elton-brand/)
12/5 — Kevin Martin vs. Vince Carter (http://dimemag.com/2008/12/whos-better-kevin-martin-or-vince-carter/)
12/4 — Brandon Roy vs. Joe Johnson (http://dimemag.com/2008/12/whos-better-brandon-roy-or-joe-johnson/)
12/3 — Dwight Howard vs. Yao Ming (http://dimemag.com/2008/12/whos-better-dwight-or-yao/)
12/2 — Paul Pierce vs. Carmelo Anthony (http://dimemag.com/2008/12/whos-better-pierce-or-melo/)

hater

08-21-2009, 02:05 PM

Pau is an average defender unlike Dirk

Findog

08-21-2009, 02:18 PM

is this as the main player or as a second banana?

Dirk is the correct answer either way.

Findog

08-21-2009, 02:19 PM

Pau is an average defender unlike Dirk

Dirk's not bad at defense. Besides, Dirk is a better player regardless. We'll see how the poll results hold up once Lakerfan has her say.

Findog

08-21-2009, 02:21 PM

They met once in the playoffs, with Dirk having the slightly better supporting cast. Pau got his teeth kicked in:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200605010MEM.html

Leetonidas

08-21-2009, 02:22 PM

Dirk by a mile. The German is an MVP while the Spaniard is just Kobe's second banana.

KSeal

08-21-2009, 02:59 PM

On the Lakers site, the Lakers Nation, they have this same poll and Pau is winning with 75% of the vote :lol

to21

08-21-2009, 03:28 PM

As a Spurs fan I can still say there's not a lot of folks that are better than Dirk.

23LeBronJames23

08-21-2009, 03:29 PM

Depends.

Def Rowe

08-21-2009, 03:35 PM

I think Dirk Nowitzki is better.

Findog

08-21-2009, 03:41 PM

Depends.

You wear them.

Muser

08-21-2009, 03:57 PM

Only a Homer would vote Pau.

Findog

08-21-2009, 04:02 PM

Only a Homer would vote Pau.

Pretty much. Since Kobe is a shooting guard and Dirk is basically a 2 in a 4's body, you might be on firmer ground saying Pau is a better complement to Kobe since he has a more traditional post game. However, the poll only asks who is better, and no question that is Dirk. Better career, better player right now, better player in their primes.

kamikazi_player

08-21-2009, 04:24 PM

Dirk is so much better than Gasol.

benefactor

08-21-2009, 05:11 PM

I would take Dirk over two Gasols.

Chillen

08-21-2009, 05:17 PM

I voted Dirk.

Pau is going to have to lead the Lakers to the NBA finals without Kobe Bryant. Dirk helped lead the Mavericks to the NBA finals in 2006 and had no Kobe Bryant.

KSeal

08-21-2009, 05:22 PM

There is no question Dirk is better, he lead his team to the finals and has won an MVP. But as someone else stated I think Pau is a better fit for the Lakers then Dirk.

sribb43

08-21-2009, 05:26 PM

If Dirk played with Kobe he would be the second coming of God. Until Pau went to LA everyone use to shit on him and now bc he plays in LA he has become one of the most overrated players in the league

ginobili's bald spot

08-21-2009, 05:26 PM

The answer is obviously Dirk.

Spursfan092120

08-21-2009, 05:29 PM

Dirk-a-Dirk

manufan10

08-21-2009, 05:32 PM

Dirk.

Hornets1

08-21-2009, 06:23 PM

Dirk. Gasol is a very very good player, Dirk is a great player.

Donkeybong

08-21-2009, 06:59 PM

I say Dirk, but Pau's stock has gone up tremendously in the past 2 seasons. The gap isnt as wide as it used to be.

polysylab1k

08-21-2009, 07:06 PM

Dirk carried his team to NBA finals as the leader of his team, while also as the No.1 guy, the furthest Pau carried the Grizzlies to was just the first round sweep.

carrao45

08-21-2009, 07:08 PM

Dirk.

But I voted Gasol cause he's a Laker.

And because Pau is a way cooler name than Dirk

DUNCANownsKOBE2

08-21-2009, 07:18 PM

On the Lakers site, the Lakers Nation, they have this same poll and Pau is winning with 75% of the vote :lol

What's funny is those same Laker fans will try to make Gasol look as shitty as possible in the next Kobe vs. Lebron argument they have.

DUNCANownsKOBE2

08-21-2009, 07:32 PM

He also choked harder than any modern athlete in the past decade after doing so.
http://sports.espn.go.com/photo/2006/0620/nba_g_celebration_395.jpg

The day Pau Gasol makes the finals with a supporting cast similar to that of the one Dirk had, and doesn't choke, then what you just posted would be relevant to this thread.

Findog

08-21-2009, 07:39 PM

He also choked harder than any modern athlete in the past decade after doing so.
http://sports.espn.go.com/photo/2006/0620/nba_g_celebration_395.jpg

You didn't watch that series. You're also a lame troll, so you're now going on my ignore list. Ignore list is for lame posters with terrible takes. You're in good company now with Basketballgirl25 and mavsfan1000.

DPG21920

08-21-2009, 08:05 PM

Gasol certainly has parts of his game that are better than Dirk, but Dirk is better.

angelbelow

08-21-2009, 08:14 PM

Based on individual talent, Dirk for sure. But if Dirk was on the lakers, I dont think they would have the same success because Pau is a much better post player.

My Fault

08-21-2009, 08:43 PM

Pau can't win without Kobe...

21_Blessings

08-21-2009, 09:14 PM

Pau can't win without Kobe...

Dirk can't win period. Will retire ringless.

1st seed that almost won 70 games shitting the bed against the 8 seed will be Dirk's legacy.

spursfan1000

08-21-2009, 09:30 PM

Dirk.

Findog

08-21-2009, 09:33 PM

Dirk can't win period. Will retire ringless.

1st seed that almost won 70 games shitting the bed against the 8 seed will be Dirk's legacy.

The best foreign player of all-time will be Dirk's legacy. Losing to the Nuggets isn't Payton or Kemp's legacy.

Wake me up when Pau gets to the Finals as a #1 guy. Hell, wake me up when Pau whens a single friggin playoff game as a #1 guy. They met once in the playoffs, and Dirk curbstomped him. Dirk has won 9 series as a #1 guy. Pau has won 0 games as a #1 guy.

Ghazi

08-21-2009, 09:45 PM

Based on individual talent, Dirk for sure. But if Dirk was on the lakers, I dont think they would have the same success because Pau is a much better post player.

Please, they probably have the same results if Dirk is in place of Pau... loss to Celtics in '08 finals, '09 NBA champs.

Dirk's inferior versatility regarding ability to play FC would probably mandate more minutes for Bynum though... theoretically... but still.

Ghazi

08-21-2009, 09:46 PM

Dirk can't win period. Will retire ringless.

1st seed that almost won 70 games shitting the bed against the 8 seed will be Dirk's legacy.

You already went as far as to admit Dirk is better than Pau when the all-NBA teams came out.

Dirk's legacy SHOULD be a guy who won a championship without a 2nd all-NBA caliber player on the team.

As it is, he'll go down as the best foreign player of all time... probably top 5-7 PF's of all time, etc.

Findog

08-21-2009, 09:53 PM

You already went as far as to admit Dirk is better than Pau when the all-NBA teams came out.

Dirk's legacy SHOULD be a guy who won a championship without a 2nd all-NBA caliber player on the team.

As it is, he'll go down as the best foreign player of all time... probably top 5-7 PF's of all time, etc.

It's 21 Palins.

redzero

08-21-2009, 11:57 PM

I hate that fake thug ass wannabe bitchass hoe. Can't wait 'till his contract expires.:toast

If all the fake thug ass wannabe bitchass hoes left the Nuggets, the only ones left would be Chauncey Billups and Anthony Carter.

KSeal

08-22-2009, 12:29 AM

What's funny is those same Laker fans will try to make Gasol look as shitty as possible in the next Kobe vs. Lebron argument they have.

Pretty much. Pau isn't close to Dirk, it's that simple. I don't know why some Laker fans won't admit this, it's as clear as day.

mystargtr34

08-22-2009, 05:59 AM

Dirk is better, but Gasol is arguably a top 10 player in the NBA, so its close.

Culburn369

08-22-2009, 06:12 AM

Pau can't win without Kobe...

I thought Kobe can't win without Pau?

tee, hee.

Sportstudi

08-22-2009, 07:21 AM

The best foreign player of all-time will be Dirk's legacy. Losing to the Nuggets isn't Payton or Kemp's legacy.

Wake me up when Pau gets to the Finals as a #1 guy. Hell, wake me up when Pau whens a single friggin playoff game as a #1 guy. They met once in the playoffs, and Dirk curbstomped him. Dirk has won 9 series as a #1 guy. Pau has won 0 games as a #1 guy.

This.

It's not even close. Pau is a very good player, no doubt about that. But Dirk is clearly better.

carib

08-22-2009, 07:38 AM

Whats with all the dumb ass polls lately?

Thanks they have nothing left to talk about

Culburn369

08-22-2009, 09:09 AM

You didn't watch that series. You're also a lame troll, so you're now going on my ignore list. Ignore list is for lame posters with terrible takes. You're in good company now with Basketballgirl25 and mavsfan1000.

Jesus, Fin, I had no idea you had an active ignore list. In the short time I've been here--perusing your daily offering--I woulda bet the house against it.

Grim news.

Findog

08-22-2009, 10:14 AM

I hate how people will just look at a dynamic scorer and automatically assume they are better. Scoring is ONE part of basketball. Gasol is a way better passer and post player. His basketball IQ is off the charts. Gasol is one of the rare players that is like a chameleon and will adapt to whatever his team needs him to do. Dirk is a great offensive player, but I don't think you could say the same for him. For example, I don't think you could put Dirk on Howard for one minute in a game, and Gasol did a really nice job on him.

Also, stop saying stupid shit like "the gap has closed". Or "Gasol has really stepped his game up.", etc. He didn't do shit. He's just in LA now so he has way more national TV exposure and better teammates. He's always been this type of player.

Dirk is better. He doesn't just score. Anybody who thinks he's nothing more than a white McAdoo is ignorant. He's a good rebounder and he can pass too. He's also stepped up his defense into something approaching acceptable. We can actually measure them head to head. In 2006, they met in the playoffs. Dirk had a slightly better supporting cast and dominated Pau.

You're a Spurs fan, haven't you learned anything from the yearly rapings he administers to your team?

Findog

08-22-2009, 10:17 AM

Jesus, Fin, I had no idea you had an active ignore list. In the short time I've been here--perusing your daily offering--I woulda bet the house against it.

Grim news.

:lol You're not on it!

Darrin

08-22-2009, 10:43 AM

Pau Gasol or Dirk Nowitzki

Who's better?

I like Dirk's game; it's more complete.

BUMP

08-22-2009, 11:24 AM

All the important people voted Dirk and thats all that matters.

Who the hell is nightwish?

turiaf for president

08-22-2009, 11:30 AM

lets just say if the lakers could get dirk for pau straight up, lakers would be 73-9

Ghazi

08-22-2009, 11:55 AM

Would just like to say this poll wouldn't happen if Bennett Salvatore didn't blow the worst whistle in the history of sports, hell the history of the universe.

And yeah, I'm reiterating that shit 'till the day I die. Blow me... or until the evidence that the '06 Finals were a Zionist plot against the Mavs come out, forcing the Heat to take down their tainted banner. Indeed that will be a great day, and God willing I live to see it :).

One more comment on the cuckold who referred to Dirk as a dynamic scorer... even if this is ALL he was... it's such a big deal because it comes in an efficient manner AND he turns it over infrequently... but then you have the fact that he's probably one of the more difficult match ups in the league... above average rebounding/passing... adequate defense to a point where you wouldn't consider his production deceitful... doesn't score at the expense of his teammates, etc.

Basketballgirl25

08-22-2009, 03:46 PM

Dirk is a better player, but Pau is on the better team

Ghazi

08-22-2009, 04:02 PM

^ shut the fuck up, thanks.

Findog

08-22-2009, 04:05 PM

^ shut the fuck up, thanks.

I don't put 21 Palins on my ignore list because for whatever reason her douchebaggery just doesn't bother me. Basketballgirl25 is the message board equivalent of an awful pun, you just groan and roll your eyes.

dirk4mvp

08-22-2009, 05:31 PM

Dirk is a better player, but Pau is on the better team

what an insightful nugget of information. thanks.

Findog

08-22-2009, 06:01 PM

what an insightful nugget of information. thanks.

It's not trash talk, but just the sort of time-wasting stuff that earns a spot on my ignore list.

Basketballgirl25

08-22-2009, 06:15 PM

^ shut the fuck up, thanks.

what just saying, it is the true, Dallas didn't win last season did they? Lakers won. hence better team

polysylab1k

08-22-2009, 06:26 PM

I don't put 21 Palins on my ignore list because for whatever reason her douchebaggery just doesn't bother me. Basketballgirl25 is the message board equivalent of an awful pun, you just groan and roll your eyes.
That bitch is such a retarded whore that doesn't even know how much to charge after getting fucked by her clients. Instead, that bitch keeps rekindling kobe's dick and often simulates it with her fingers snuggling and wriggling in vagina.

polysylab1k

08-22-2009, 06:27 PM

what just saying, it is the true, Dallas didn't win last season did they? Lakers won. hence better team
see, that's why her posts are all this stint and disgusting as shit. Her keyboard is soaked up with the shitty smelly oily liquid her fingers carried from her vagina, which is already fucked up by slums and filled with bacterias.

Basketballgirl25

08-22-2009, 06:30 PM

see, that's why her posts are all this stint and disgusting as shit. Her keyboard is soaked up with the shitty smelly oily liquid her fingers carried from her vagina, which is already fucked up by slums and filled with bacterias.

you bitter much?:whine

Basketballgirl25

08-22-2009, 06:32 PM

That bitch is such a retarded whore that doesn't even know how much to charge after getting fucked by her clients. Instead, that bitch keeps rekindling kobe's dick and often simulates it with her fingers snuggling and wriggling in vagina.

I guess you wish Dirk was a Laker and Gasol was a Mav?:toast

polysylab1k

08-22-2009, 06:39 PM

I guess you wish Dirk was a Laker and Gasol was a Mav?:toast
I wish your vagina was a normal one instead of a fucked up one with trillions bacterias greasing over the membrane, if your vagina wasn't so fucked up then I would probably give you a strong fuck that you will never forget until you die.

Basketballgirl25

08-22-2009, 06:45 PM

I wish your vagina was a normal one instead of a fucked up one with trillions bacterias greasing over the membrane, if your vagina wasn't so fucked up then I would probably give you a strong fuck that you will never forget until you die.

just because, you wish Dirk was a Laker you would do all this. Guess you have lots of free time:lol

polysylab1k

08-22-2009, 07:06 PM

just because, you wish Dirk was a Laker you would do all this. Guess you have lots of free time:lol
Sure I have a lot free time, at least I don't have to go toilet every 5 minutes to change diapers. You have to wear that pad 29 days in a month, which is almost 5 times as long as normal women do. But you have to keep it under your crotch to absorb and hold the oily shitty phlegm discharged from your fucked up vagina, only when the gashes scab can you get your pussy free from that shit for some hours, before they get slitted again by a dick and re-start to bleed.

Basketballgirl25

08-22-2009, 07:16 PM

Sure I have a lot free time, at least I don't have to go toilet every 5 minutes to change diapers. You have to wear that pad 29 days in a month, which is almost 5 times as long as normal women do. But you have to keep it under your crotch to absorb and hold the oily shitty phlegm discharged from your fucked up vagina, only when the gashes scab can you get your pussy free from that shit for some hours, before they get slitted again by a dick and re-start to bleed.

nice, keep talking about yourself there. I don't care if you have to go to the toilet every 5 minutes I don't know you. Tell your mom about you bladder problems:toast

polysylab1k

08-22-2009, 07:38 PM

nice, keep talking about yourself there. I don't care if you have to go to the toilet every 5 minutes I don't know you. Tell your mom about you bladder problems:toast
You're an idiot. The "excessive frequent visit to toilet" symptom is usually caused by the swollen prostates. Rationally you don't feel it shameful to take off your panties right in our eye-sights, you are just a whore and it's exactly your job to show your genitals to the big public, still there's no one willing to give you a fuck though. It saves time than doing that in toilets after all.

Basketballgirl25

08-22-2009, 07:43 PM

You're an idiot. The "excessive frequent visit to toilet" symptom is usually caused by the swollen prostates. Rationally you don't feel it shameful to take off your panties right in our eye-sights, you are just a whore and it's exactly your job to show your genitals to the big public, still there's no one willing to give you a fuck though. It saves time than doing that in toilets after all.

cool you keep talking about yourself for some reason, really don't know why you keep talking about YOURSELF, but keep talking about yourself a little more

polysylab1k

08-22-2009, 07:47 PM

cool you keep talking about yourself for some reason, really don't know why you keep talking about YOURSELF, but keep talking about yourself a little more
You are retarded as fuck.

Basketballgirl25

08-22-2009, 07:48 PM

You are retarded as fuck.

you were the one that was talking about yourself and you say I am retarded as fuck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQlgFo7PLIw

Rodriguez

08-22-2009, 07:50 PM

You are retarded as fuck.
that tart is even more retarded than fuck.

polysylab1k

08-22-2009, 07:52 PM

you were the one that was talking about yourself and you say I am retarded as fuck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQlgFo7PLIw
You are a B.I.T.C.H.

You sound both mentally and physically fucked up.

Basketballgirl25

08-22-2009, 07:54 PM

You are a B.I.T.C.H.

You sound both mentally and physically fucked up.

those are my friends:lol, and they were fucked up. That's what drinking after a long day of working on a cruise ship does:toast

Basketballgirl25

08-22-2009, 07:59 PM

that tart is even more retarded than fuck.

does everyone used the word retard around here? I for one hate the word and anyone who uses. My friends and I used that world all the time back in high school, then a teacher gave us a lecture about using that word because her brother was actually retarded. So I just find that word stupid. I hope it comes back at you one day:toast

polysylab1k

08-22-2009, 07:59 PM

those are my friends:lol, and they were fucked up. That's what drinking after a long day of working on a cruise ship does:toast
You work on man's dick, more intricately you grope man's dick with your pussy and reap the milky liquid, and the money you gets paid for the fuck.

21_Blessings

08-22-2009, 08:00 PM

Wake me up when Pau gets to the Finals as a #1 guy. Hell, wake me up when Pau whens a single friggin playoff game as a #1 guy. They met once in the playoffs, and Dirk curbstomped him. Dirk has won 9 series as a #1 guy. Pau has won 0 games as a #1 guy.

Wake me up when Pau chokes on his dick in the first round against the 8 seed with that kind of supporting cast.

You already went as far as to admit Dirk is better than Pau when the all-NBA teams came out.

Dirk's legacy SHOULD be a guy who won a championship without a 2nd all-NBA caliber player on the team.

As it is, he'll go down as the best foreign player of all time... probably top 5-7 PF's of all time, etc.

Overall Dirk is the better player and I never claimed otherwise. But Gasol is easily a better fit for the Lakers when you factor in his superior defense and post game. Posters claiming the Lakers would somehow be magically better with the biggest European choker to ever play are hilarious. Dirk needs the ball in hands to do anything and has no relevant post game to go along with his pathetic defense.

Dirk's legacy: Stern fed ex'd that MVP trophy he never deserved. What a joke of a MVP winner, or loser. Lmao Golden State.

polysylab1k

08-22-2009, 08:01 PM

Of course, you have to give your pimp a percentage.

Findog

08-22-2009, 08:54 PM

Wake me up when Pau chokes on his dick in the first round against the 8 seed with that kind of supporting cast.

Dirk's supporting cast has been Jason Terry and Josh Howard. Those two guys have 1 All Star injury replacement selection between them. It's not like Dirk has the Washington Generals beside him, but he hasn't exactly had stacked teams backing him up either.

The Warriors would've swept the Grizz. At least Dirk won 2 games.

Overall Dirk is the better player and I never claimed otherwise. But Gasol is easily a better fit for the Lakers when you factor in his superior defense and post game.

I said much the same thing, so what are we arguing about?

Posters claiming the Lakers would somehow be magically better with the biggest European choker to ever play are hilarious. Dirk needs the ball in hands to do anything and has no relevant post game to go along with his pathetic defense.

Kobe disagrees, because he whined like a bitch for Dr. Buss to trade him to Dallas so he could team up with Dirk. If they can win a title with Pau and that supporting cast, they can make it work with Dirk too.

Dirk's defense isn't pathetic. Amare's defense is pathetic. Boozer's defense is pathetic. I'm not saying Dirk is Bill Russell reincarnated, but why don't you try watching a fucking Mavericks game for the first time since 2003. Avery forced him to become a better defender.

Dirk's legacy: Greatest foreign player of all-time

FIFY. Golden State isn't going to be Dirk's legacy, any more than Dikembe Motumbo cradling that ball will be Kemp or Payton's legacy, or Kobe quitting like a bitch against Phoenix will be his legacy.

polysylab1k

08-22-2009, 09:08 PM

Wake me up when Pau chokes on his dick in the first round against the 8 seed with that kind of supporting cast.

Overall Dirk is the better player and I never claimed otherwise. But Gasol is easily a better fit for the Lakers when you factor in his superior defense and post game. Posters claiming the Lakers would somehow be magically better with the biggest European choker to ever play are hilarious. Dirk needs the ball in hands to do anything and has no relevant post game to go along with his pathetic defense.

Dirk's legacy: Stern fed ex'd that MVP trophy he never deserved. What a joke of a MVP winner, or loser. Lmao Golden State.
Chris Anderson could have been a better fit than anyone else for the Lakers, since he has superlative works for defense and is also fast enough to finish some easy lay-ups with Kobe's assists. Gasol used to be the ball controller in Memphis and we all witnessed how he worked in post-season. The Mavs did lose some tough games in the past several years but none of them was lost by a ridiculous margin as big as 38 points, and it never happens in a Mavs game that the coach of our opponent team got soaked with juice poured by one of his players.

Will Hunting

08-22-2009, 09:16 PM

KSeal

08-22-2009, 09:19 PM

If you're wondering what that letter is attached to your birth certificate, it's an apology from the condom factory.

Says the Will Hunting troll :lmao

Will Hunting

08-22-2009, 09:19 PM

Wake me up when Pau chokes on his dick in the first round against the 8 seed with that kind of supporting cast.

Wake me up when Gasol wins a playoff game without Kobe.

Will Hunting

08-22-2009, 09:20 PM

Says the Will Hunting troll :lmao

O god, touche.

Ghazi

08-22-2009, 11:20 PM

Overall Dirk is the better player and I never claimed otherwise. But Gasol is easily a better fit for the Lakers when you factor in his superior defense and post game. Posters claiming the Lakers would somehow be magically better with the biggest European choker to ever play are hilarious. Dirk needs the ball in hands to do anything and has no relevant post game to go along with his pathetic defense.

It's not farfetch'd to say Lakers would win the title in '09 with Dirk in place of Pau... all I'm saying ;)... not saying they'd win 70 gamews or anything though.

21_Blessings

08-22-2009, 11:26 PM

Dirk's supporting cast has been Jason Terry and Josh Howard. Those two guys have 1 All Star injury replacement selection between them. It's not like Dirk has the Washington Generals beside him, but he hasn't exactly had stacked teams backing him up either.

Terry has been a borderline all-star his entire career. Harris, Howard and Terry were much better than what Gasol had in Memphis by a long shot. Memphis had a squad full of role players. Dirk would do no better with Mike Miller, Battier and Bobby Jackson if you swapped him with Pau.

The Warriors would've swept the Grizz. At least Dirk won 2 games.

Well Pau would have defintely shot better than 39% against that pathetic Warriors defense. The truly sad thing about that series is Nelson rarely even double teamed Dirk. Jackson just made him his bitch.

I said much the same thing, so what are we arguing about?

Truth is, Dirk is closer to a Pau Gasol than he will ever be to a Kobe Bryant. Dirk will never win a championship as the number 1 option. He proved as much.

Kobe disagrees, because he whined like a bitch for Dr. Buss to trade him to Dallas so he could team up with Dirk. If they can win a title with Pau and that supporting cast, they can make it work with Dirk too.

He also wanted to be traded to New York and said he would play on Pluto Must have been that Jamal Crawford and unlivable atmosphere allure!

Dirk's defense isn't pathetic. Amare's defense is pathetic. Boozer's defense is pathetic. I'm not saying Dirk is Bill Russell reincarnated, but why don't you try watching a fucking Mavericks game for the first time since 2003. Avery forced him to become a better defender.

No Dirk's defense is pathetic. Especially for a power forward. You have to hide the guy out there when his man has a decent post game. Pau proved this playoff run that his defense is worlds above Dirk.

21_Blessings

08-22-2009, 11:32 PM

It's not farfetch'd to say Lakers would win the title in '09 with Dirk in place of Pau... all I'm saying ;)... not saying they'd win 70 gamews or anything though.

Yeah they would but most likely the Lakers would be worse defensively. Dirk can't play center at the minutes Pau was nor could he defend Howard effectively. They'd have to rely on Bynum being healthy and maybe even Odom at C which kills the Lakers rotation and creates huge defensive holes. Not to mention, without Bynum on the floor the Lakers would have no interior anchor/post presence on the floor.

Offensively Dirk gives a variety of contested fall aways which is something Kobe does better. So you're taking shots away from Kobe and your defense/interior scoring get worse in exchange for some killer outside shooting.

Findog

08-22-2009, 11:49 PM

Well Pau would have defintely shot better than 39% against that pathetic Warriors defense. The truly sad thing about that series is Nelson rarely even double teamed Dirk. Jackson just made him his bitch.

Dirk was hurt against Golden State. He just never used it as an excuse. And what fucking series did you watch? :lol They doubled him constantly and ran a second defender at him whenever he put the ball on the floor. When he was healthy the next year, he went back to making Jackson his bitch:

He was healthy for this game:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200801020DAL.html

This game he came back from that high ankle sprain way too early because this was a must-win situation:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200804020DAL.html

Truth is, Dirk is closer to a Pau Gasol than he will ever be to a Kobe Bryant. Dirk will never win a championship as the number 1 option. He proved as much.

Kobe is a 1, Dirk is a 1.5, Pau is a 2. Dirk came within inches of a title as a #1 guy. It's still possible to win a title with Dirk as a #1 guy, but not likely. Pau can't win a playoff game as a #1 guy.

He also wanted to be traded to New York and said he would play on Pluto Must have been that Jamal Crawford and unlivable atmosphere allure!

He said he would only accept a trade to Chicago, Phoenix or Dallas...and it wasn't because he wanted to go to war with JET and Josh Howard.

No Dirk's defense is pathetic. Especially for a power forward. You have to hide the guy out there when his man has a decent post game. Pau proved this playoff run that his defense is worlds above Dirk.

Kendrick Perkins shut Howard down this postseason too. I don't see him making an All-Defense Team anytime soon. You play Howard straight up and close out on Orlando's shooters. Everybody knows that Howard is not exactly Hakeem Olajuwon in the post.

Dirk's defense is average. He'll get into foul trouble guarding Tim Duncan or Al Jefferson, but so will everybody else. I watch 78 more Mavericks games a year than you do. I remember Lamar Odom abusing Dirk in 07-08 when he came back on a high ankle sprain after only 2 weeks and had no lateral movement, but his defense is quite adequate. Since he's an elite offensive player, that's good enough to make him a franchise player.

21_Blessings

08-23-2009, 12:02 AM

Dirk was hurt against Golden State. He just never used it as an excuse.

Because it wasn't a valid excuse. Just another epic Dirk playoff choke.

And what fucking series did you watch? :lol They doubled him constantly and ran a second defender at him whenever he put the ball on the floor. When he was healthy the next year, he went back to making Jackson his bitch:

Bullshit on the doubling him constantly. Nelson knew how to defend Dirk. All he needed was a long athletic guy like Jackson and Dirk folded.

Kobe is a 1, Dirk is a 1.5, Pau is a 2. Dirk came within inches of a title as a #1 guy. It's still possible to win a title with Dirk as a #1 guy, but not likely. Pau can't win a playoff game as a #1 guy.

More like Kobe is a 1, Dirk is a 1.9 and Pau is a 2.

Pau has never had the supporting cast Dirk did as the number 1 guy. Not really a valid comparison. Dirk had all-star caliber guys around him his entire career. Gasol had some good roleplayers for like 3 seasons on a team owned by a guy that doesn't care about winning. What did Dirk do with Steve Nash (MVP, all-star) and Finley (all-star)? Right, nothing.

He said he would only accept a trade to Chicago, Phoenix or Dallas...and it wasn't because he wanted to go to war with JET and Josh Howard.

And New York. Yeah Dallas makes since so Dirk could become a number 2, which is a role he belongs at. Dirk has failed spectacularly at trying to win as a number 1 option. He's just not that type of player. Especially when the going gets tough, Dirk tends to vanish.

Since he's an elite offensive player, that's good enough to make him a franchise player.

Yeah a franchise player of a team that has never and will never win a title.

Findog

08-23-2009, 12:08 AM

Because it wasn't a valid excuse. Just another epic Dirk playoff choke.

What's the other "epic playoff choke?" When he played a great Game 5 against Miami and hit that tough runner over Shaq before Wade got bailed out by Salvatore? Or the 29 points and 15 rebounds he put up in Game 6 when Miami clinched? You call that choking? How dumb are you? Do you ever watch any basketball besides Laker games? :lmao

Bullshit on the doubling him constantly. Nelson knew how to defend Dirk. All he needed was a long athletic guy like Jackson and Dirk folded.

And Dirk hobbled by bone spurs. When he's been healthy, Jackson can't guard him - see every Warriors-Mavs game since that series.

Pau has never had the supporting cast Dirk did as the number 1 guy. Not really a valid comparison. Dirk had all-star caliber guys around him his entire career. Gasol had some good roleplayers for like 3 seasons on a team owned by a guy that doesn't care about winning. What did Dirk do with Steve Nash (MVP, all-star) and Finley (all-star)? Right, nothing.

They won 60 games and advanced to the Conference Finals in 2003. You call that "nothing?"

Dirk has failed spectacularly at trying to win as a number 1 option.

If coming as close to winning a title as Al Gore did to becoming President constitutes "failing spectacularly," then yeah, I'd agree. I guess that means LeBron, Dwight Howard and Chris Paul have also "failed spectacularly" at winning a title. They're franchise players too. Lots of variables go into winning at title. Dirk had a decent supporting cast in 2006 but he's never had a legitimate second All Star besides him. He never had a Paul Pierce or Ray Allen like KG did. He's never had a Pau Gasol or Lamar Odom like Kobe did. He's never had a dominant low-post presence in O'Neal like Wade and Kobe did. He's had two guys (Josh, Jet) that merit "Honorable Mention" when it comes to the All Star team and he took those guys within inches of a title.

Yeah a franchise player of a team that has never and will never win a title.

:lmao

Let me know what else is going to happen in the future so I can place my bets now.

Findog

08-23-2009, 12:17 AM

Dirk Nowitzki career playoff averages:

26 points, 11 rebounds and 3 assists on 45% shooting in 97 career playoff games. How does a "choker" get the opportunity to play over a season's worth of playoff games when he is his team's best player? :lmao at 21 Palins

21_Blessings

08-23-2009, 12:20 AM

Jackson can't guard him - see every Warriors-Mavs game since that series.

Jackson shut him down in the playoffs. With rarely any double teams and one of the worst defenses in the NBA. Dirk's legacy ladies and gentlemen.

They won 60 games and advanced to the Conference Finals in 2003. You call that "nothing?"

They beat nobody impressive in 2003. Yes winning 60 games with a stacked team and then getting sent home is nothing.

If coming as close to winning a title as Al Gore did to becoming President constitutes "failing spectacularly," then yeah, I'd agree.

Coming close you mean choking away 2-0 lead with home court then yeah. Either way, Dirk doesn't have a ring.

Dirk is only very slightly better than Gasol. Dirk has proven he can't win even when he has a stacked team. Pau has proven he can't win with a team full of old role players. Basically in the same class as a player since both need a dominant superstar next to them in order to win. Only difference is, Pau will retire a European and multiple NBA champion.

Findog

08-23-2009, 12:23 AM

Jackson shut him down in the playoffs. With rarely any double teams. 1st round against one of the worst defenses in the NBA.

Stop making stuff up. Notice the bold: You're just going off box scores and didn't watch the series if you think the Warriors played him straight up. That's like me saying Kobe choked against Boston when everybody knows Lamar and Pau peed their pants at the sight of Celtic green.

This kind of stuff is why you get no respect here for your basketball acumen. We both agree Dirk is better than Pau. We both agree that given the composition of the Laker roster, you can make a case that Pau is a better fit because he has a more traditional post game. Everything else is you making stuff up and getting more sand in your vag than Charlie Rosen.

They beat nobody impressive in 2003. Yes winning 60 games with a stacked team and then getting sent home is nothing.

Quoted without comment.

Coming close you mean choking away 2-0 lead with home court then yeah. Either way, Dirk doesn't have a ring.

He was great in the crunch time of that series. Wade was better. No shame in that.

Dirk is only very slightly better than Gasol.

Pau is very very good. Dirk is great. That's the difference.

Dirk has proven he can't win even when he has a stacked team.

When has Dirk played with a "stacked" roster? Are you saying Josh/Jet are as good as Pau/Lamar? Pierce/Allen? Shaq? If so, nothing more needs be said.

21_Blessings

08-23-2009, 12:39 AM

Stop making stuff up. Notice the bold: You're just going off box scores and didn't watch the series if you think the Warriors played him straight up.

No I'm not going off box scores. I watched that series and Jackson shut him down 1v1 most of the time. I've seen Lamar Odom do similar things to Dirk at times. Yes when Dirk gets hot he makes just about everything. But that series was a prime example of Dirk's weakness. No post game, no penetration or real playmaking ability. Nelly played him straight up with a long athletic guy while defending the 3 point line. Dirk was forced to take tough contested shots or try and playmake the entire series. Which is why Dallas failed miserably.

That's like me saying Kobe choked against Boston when everybody knows Lamar and Pau peed their pants at the sight of Celtic green.

You're comparing one of the greatest defenses ever (Boston 08) to a Don Nelson coached Warriors team :lol Take it easy on all that cock gobbling Fin, you're losing brain cells.

Pau is very very good. Dirk is great. That's the difference.

The entire point. If Dirk was "great" he would have won a couple by now. In reality Dirk is a very good, albeit one dimensional player that gets overratted constantly. Like winning a undeserved MVP and then shitting the bed in the 1st round against the 8 seed.

When has Dirk played with a "stacked" roster? Are you saying Josh/Jet are as good as Pau/Lamar? Pierce/Allen? Shaq? If so, nothing more needs be said.

Finley/Nash/Dirk isn't stacked? It was. Jason Kidd/Terry/Howard is a stacked a team and we can even throw in Marion now. So was Harris/Jet/Howard with Stackhouse off the bench. Much better than anything Pau Gasol ever played with pre-Lakers.

polysylab1k

08-23-2009, 12:47 AM

Jackson shut him down in the playoffs. With rarely any double teams and one of the worst defenses in the NBA. Dirk's legacy ladies and gentlemen.

If you had taken a look at Dirk's stats in that series they you would have probably noticed Dirk wasn't playing very bad, actually it was the biased officiating that upheld the Warriors to the second round.

They beat nobody impressive in 2003. Yes winning 60 games with a stacked team and then getting sent home is nothing.

Homers only consider their own team impressive while considering any other team unimpressive, but the 03 champions were NOT the Lakers if my memory serves me well.

Coming close you mean choking away 2-0 lead with home court then yeah. Either way, Dirk doesn't have a ring.

Pau Gasol has a ring while Robert Horry has seven, even DickBreath has 3. And we can still remember how histeriously Kobe was bitching after his team got wiped out 3-4 by Suns in 07 from a 3-1 lead.

Dirk is only very slightly better than Gasol. Dirk has proven he can't win even when he has a stacked team. Pau has proven he can't win with a team full of old role players. Basically in the same class as a player since both need a dominant superstar next to them in order to win. Only difference is, Pau will retire a European and multiple NBA champion.
A team containing Shane Battier, Bonzi Wells, Mike Miller is full of old role players? Battier was drafted in 2001 and was still in his early 20s at that time, while Bonzi Wells and Miller were also both on the right side of 30. Actually that Grizzlies team was more stacked than the Mavs have ever been since franchise being founded.

European champions and glories don't count at all, unless you admit you're the same idiotic as KBP. The Spain basketball team is just too great to beat, but Pau Gasol is definitely not the only reason why that team is great.

21_Blessings

08-23-2009, 12:55 AM

Welp time to get plastered. It's ok Mav fan, keep those 1st round victory hopes alive!

Findog

08-23-2009, 12:59 AM

No I'm not going off box scores. I watched that series and Jackson shut him down 1v1 most of the time. I've seen Lamar Odom do similar things to Dirk at times. Yes when Dirk gets hot he makes just about everything. But that series was a prime example of Dirk's weakness. No post game, no penetration or real playmaking ability. Nelly played him straight up with a long athletic guy while defending the 3 point line. Dirk was forced to take tough contested shots or try and playmake the entire series. Which is why Dallas failed miserably.

He was hurt and still put up 19/10. The 38% shooting is what killed Dallas. That team was constructed in such a way that Dirk had to put up 25/12 on 50% shooting for his team to win. Nobody on Dallas had a good series against GS. He had absolutely no help in that series whatsoever. I'm not saying he played well, he did what he could while hobbled.

You're comparing one of the greatest defenses ever (Boston 08) to a Don Nelson coached Warriors team :lol Take it easy on all that cock gobbling Fin, you're losing brain cells.

I didn't compare the 08 Celtics to the 07 Warriors. Read that passage again. I said you fundamentally misunderstand how the Warriors won that series and used a hypothetical example of criticizing Kobe for the 08 Finals when everybody knows the Celtics focused their D on him and his teammates couldn't step up.

The entire point. If Dirk was "great" he would have won a couple by now. In reality Dirk is a very good, albeit one dimensional player that gets overratted constantly. Like winning a undeserved MVP and then shitting the bed in the 1st round against the 8 seed.

Dirk's a great player, and you're saying he's not because he hasn't won a ring as a #1 guy. LeBron is not a great player either then. Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, not great players either. This is why Laker fan gets no respect generally. You're lucky to have presumably been born in southern California and root for a glamour franchise that will always have no difficulty attracting top FA's or get bullshit trades from their Triple A affiliate in Memphis when things go bad. In the real world, people know that championships alone don't determine who is great and who isn't. I guess Robert Horry is a great player, he's got 7 rings, 1 more than Jordan.

Finley/Nash/Dirk isn't stacked? It was.

Were they beating the Shaq/Kobe Lakers had they ever met in the playoffs?

So was Harris/Jet/Howard with Stackhouse off the bench. Much better than anything Pau Gasol ever played with pre-Lakers.

Slightly better than Miller, Battier, a not-yet washed up Eddie Jones, White Chocolate or Bonzi Wells, James Posey, etc.

polysylab1k

08-23-2009, 01:08 AM

No I'm not going off box scores. I watched that series and Jackson shut him down 1v1 most of the time. I've seen Lamar Odom do similar things to Dirk at times. Yes when Dirk gets hot he makes just about everything. But that series was a prime example of Dirk's weakness. No post game, no penetration or real playmaking ability. Nelly played him straight up with a long athletic guy while defending the 3 point line. Dirk was forced to take tough contested shots or try and playmake the entire series. Which is why Dallas failed miserably.

Nelly just knew exactly how the Mavs worked, and he just crippled our system with the help of bribed refs. It's just like Delly knew the password of our account and downloaded some virus into our system, then eventually destroyed our XP.

Dirk received a offensive foul at every try of penetrating thanks to the biased officiating, then he had to shoot the ball from arc or mid-range. So it's actually not the lack of ability but the officials that blocked Dirk's way to penetrating, and he received tons of lambaste he didn't deserve.

You're comparing one of the greatest defenses ever (Boston 08) to a Don Nelson coached Warriors team :lol Take it easy on all that cock gobbling Fin, you're losing brain cells.

Don Nelson knew how our offense worked, when someone knows where your flaws are exactly existing then you know you're in troubles. It was Nelson's familiarity with our strategy that made their defense look so damn efficient.

The entire point. If Dirk was "great" he would have won a couple by now. In reality Dirk is a very good, albeit one dimensional player that gets overratted constantly. Like winning a undeserved MVP and then shitting the bed in the 1st round against the 8 seed.

How many rings has Larry Birk won? Bird was considered among the best players in the league but he didn't win the ring he deserved until he turned around Dirk's age. The Mavs have already been armed with the best possible weapons they can get, and seriously they will be a contender for CHAMPIONSHIP next season, even if they're not the best team.

Finley/Nash/Dirk isn't stacked? It was. Jason Kidd/Terry/Howard is a stacked a team and we can even throw in Marion now. So was Harris/Jet/Howard with Stackhouse off the bench. Much better than anything Pau Gasol ever played with pre-Lakers.
Stackhous was already a yellow leaf when he joined the Mavs, Nash never played at the MVP level in Dallas while Finley's gold age was back in 1990s. When Dirk started to become a superstar, Finley had already quitted that range. From no dimension can you observe the Harris/JET/Howard circurstance was better than Battier/While Chocolate/Bonzi Wells/Mike Miller when defense is also taken into account.

polysylab1k

08-23-2009, 01:12 AM

Welp time to get plastered. It's ok Mav fan, keep those 1st round victory hopes alive!
Mavs attended the playoffs every year since Dirk became the #1 guy of our team, while we can clearly remember how the Lakers worked out in 04-05 season.

Ghazi

08-23-2009, 01:37 AM

21, youre pretty dumb I must say.

1. Finley/Nash is not stacked. In any case, the 60 win team was the best team in the NBA that didn't win a title because of Dirk's injury. Is it Dirk's fault he missed the final 3 games of the Spurs' series? Furthermore these teams were before Dirk entered his prime and he was young... veterans lead teams to titles in this league!

2. Nobody said Dirk's greatness was such that he should lead a team to multiple championships... but the fact that he's ringless is bad luck and in the case of '06, an absolute travesty.

3. You're retarded if you think Kidd/Howard/Terry is stacked... Kidd has been outplayed by Billups/Parker/Paul since joining the Mavs, Terry hasn't shown up in the playoffs lately, and Howard, whether it's been due to injury or stupidity, has been subpar in the playoffs lately as well save the Spurs series... it's a good team, but a stacked team? weak sauce. if it was so stacked, how come Dirk can average 30+ points, 10+ rebounds against the Nuggets and the Mavs lose 4-1? How come he can average 27/11 or so against the Hornets and the Mavs lose 4-1? Or are his points AND rebounds and efficiency fool's gold that come at the expense of his "stacked" teammates?:rolleyes

4. Harris/Howard/Terry w/ Stack off bench... how is that even a stacked team? No 2nd all-NBA caliber player to compliment... no stud wing player really and no low post scoring... just Dirk and a solid collection of offensive perimeter players and adequate defensive centers. Again, a good team... very good team... but a great team? Nah, would have, should they have won the title like they should, probably been considered one of the weaker championship teams. In any case, Dirk led that team to a title if not for the worst officiated Finals in the history of the universe.

5. Considering the MVP is a REGULAR SEASON award... Dirk absolutely deserved his MVP for the 90/50/40 season and clutch play in the 4th quarter. If he didn't deserve it in '07, he deserved it in '06 anyway. Dirk was playing (and was) a top 3 player in the NBA at the time.

It's just funny how you'll consider Odom/Gasol overrated to boost Kobe, but then consider Dirk's supporting casts stacked as to diminish Dirk. No rationality. This is the most liberal and baseless use of the word "stacked" I've ever seen...

Findog

08-23-2009, 01:45 AM

It's just funny how you'll consider Odom/Gasol overrated to boost Kobe, but then consider Dirk's supporting casts stacked as to diminish Dirk. No rationality. This is the most liberal and baseless use of the word "stacked" I've ever seen...

Watch him trash Pau in the next Kobe vs. LeBron thread too. And how about him saying Nellie just played Dirk straight up in 07? :lmao

redzero

08-23-2009, 02:57 AM

I hate when people talk about Pau being worth more because of the last two seasons. He's still the same player he's ever been, and Kobe or the Lakers haven't made him better at all.

Culburn369

08-23-2009, 05:07 AM

I hate when people talk about Pau being worth more because of the last two seasons. He's still the same player he's ever been, and Kobe or the Lakers haven't made him better at all.

True, that is the dichotomy of Bryant: he does not make those around him (Gasol) better, but, better players (Gasol) around him make Bryant better.

Sportstudi

08-23-2009, 07:36 AM

5. Considering the MVP is a REGULAR SEASON award... Dirk absolutely deserved his MVP for the 90/50/40 season and clutch play in the 4th quarter. If he didn't deserve it in '07, he deserved it in '06 anyway. Dirk was playing (and was) a top 3 player in the NBA at the time.

Well, I don't agree that often with Ghazi, but here I have to. As Ghazi wrote, the MVP is a REGULAR SEASON award and if a player is able to put up 50/40/90 and to lead a team to a 67-win season (still tied for 7th of all-time) he simply deserves the award. Anybody who tries to deny that has to be completely retarded.

As Findog already explained, Nellie just defended our system very well. Dallas lost 15 games during the regular season and was 0-3 against GSW. Thus, the defeat wasn't such a surprise (I think Russell stated that as well after the series was over). And Dirk was hobbled pretty badly. I bet that not many other players in the NBA would have even touched the court with that injury.