Lakers vs Spurs: Tale of the tape [Archive]

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TD 21

08-22-2009, 09:32 PM

Starters:

PF- McDyess < Gasol: As solid a player is McDyess still is, Gasol is a top 15 player in the world at this point. McDyess is good enough to not have this be a landslide, but it's still a clear Lakers advantage.

SF- Jefferson = Artest: For now I'll hold off on declaring who has the advantage, because we haven't seen how they'll fit into their respective new teams, but Jefferson is a slightly better player. He's a more complete scorer, and if he's not quite the defender Artest is, he figures to get back to being an above average one in his new role.

C- Duncan > Bynum: This post will be long enough by the time it's done, I'm not wasting my time writing a detailed write up of something so obvious.

SG- Mason < Bryant: See "C- Duncan > Bynum:"

PG- Parker > Fisher: This is hands down the biggest advantage either team will have. The Lakers are known to struggle defending quick, penetrating point guards and defending the pick-and-roll. Too bad Parker is the best of the former, and one of the best in executing the latter. This one, more than any other could decide a potential playoff series between the two teams.

Bench:

PF- Bonner/PF- Blair/C- Ratliff < PF/SF- Odom: Who knows what backup big man combination the Spurs deploy against the Lakers, but it won't change this verdict. All three are basically specialists: Bonner is a 3 point shooter, Blair a dominant rebounder, and Ratliff a good shot blocker, but none can match the versatility and all around game of Odom.

SF/SG- Finley > SF/PF- Walton: Even at his advanced age, Finley is still a lethal marksman from the outside and is cold blooded in the clutch. Walton is a decent facilitator and devoted practitioner of the triangle, but isn't especially good at anything.

SG- Ginobili > SG- Vujacic: Speaking of complete and total mismatches, this one ranks second to the starting PG's. Disregard Vujacic's pesky defense on a severely injured Ginobili in the '08 West Finals, and look at it logically: Vujacic is a mediocre player who's had one good season, and Ginobili is a top 15 player in the world, when healthy.

PG/SG- Hill = PG- Farmar/SG/PG- Brown: All three are young, developing players who have yet to truly carve out a niche. Hill and Brown are very athletic and show the capabilities to be good defenders at both guard spots, while Farmar has the most upside offensively. Again, I'll hold off on declaring who has the advantage until I see who, if any, takes the biggest step forward in their development next season.

DMX7

08-22-2009, 09:38 PM

Bonner will be starting. Book it.

Nathan Explosion

08-22-2009, 10:05 PM

TD 21

08-22-2009, 10:11 PM

Is Blair laterally quick enough and defensively sound enough to effectively guard Odom off the dribble though? Also, he'll be giving up about 3.5 inches defensively in the post, so can he keep Odom from getting deep post position, or can he get into his legs and root him, a la Hayes on Gasol? Obviously, with Blair having not yet played an official NBA game, these questions can't be answered, but they're things to ponder and watch for when these two teams meet in the regular season.

Last but not least, will Pop trust a rookie against the Lakers when he has veterans such as Bonner and Ratliff to turn to? I'm guessing that if Bonner continues to seem nervous and unsure of himself against elite teams and if Blair shows even a modicum of confidence and poise, the answer will be yes.

DPG21920

08-22-2009, 10:12 PM

Blair guarding Gasol, I don't feel so good about. Putting Blair on Odom on the other hand makes me feel a little better. Gasol has proven he can take his game to the next level. Odom has proven he can be a bit fragile when pushed around, a Blair specialty.

Odom would absolutely murder Blair. All he would do is draw him out to the perimeter or get the ball through motion offense and Blair would be much too slow.

DPG21920

08-22-2009, 10:13 PM

God I want some real news. We keep talking about the same stuff over and over and over.

DrHouse

08-22-2009, 10:50 PM

SpurNation

08-23-2009, 12:11 AM

Bonner will be starting. Book it.

I'd bet that he don't.

eisfeld

08-23-2009, 04:05 AM

Basketball doesn't work that way. You can't take a player by player matchup and then predict the winner.

How the pieces fit matters just as much. Right now, the Lakers are basically bringing back the same core and have fewer new pieces to integrate than the Spurs.

Will be interesting too see how it works out with Artest and the new Spurs players. Chemistry might be an issue but I think both teams are professional enough to not letting this affect their game.

antimvp

08-23-2009, 07:05 AM

You guys are ignoring haislip....he will be the huge difference.

antimvp

08-23-2009, 07:08 AM

zyiK5nf95Cs&feature=fvw

notice how he can push his dribble left or right hard to the hole for the ecstatic dunk......nice.

not to mention hairston or williams.

antimvp

08-23-2009, 07:14 AM

antimvp

08-23-2009, 07:23 AM

spurs staters when the face the fakers

Duncan
Mcdyess
Parker
Jefferson
Haislip

all_heart

08-23-2009, 09:54 AM

all_heart

08-23-2009, 10:05 AM

zyiK5nf95Cs&feature=fvw

notice how he can push his dribble left or right hard to the hole for the ecstatic dunk......nice.

not to mention hairston or williams.

He looks like Horry circa 1995. If he can play at that level when given the opportunity, he'll be getting a ton of minutes. 6th man award? Unlikely but like I said if he plays at a high level then he'll be a bigger x-factor than even Manu, because he would create match up problems. When playing a team like the Lakers you have to counter their strengths by taking advantage of their weakness, in this case it would be lack of depth on the bench and forcing them to show their age (Odom/Ron).

ohmwrecker

08-23-2009, 03:27 PM

Basketball doesn't work that way. You can't take a player by player matchup and then predict the winner.

How the pieces fit matters just as much. Right now, the Lakers are basically bringing back the same core and have fewer new pieces to integrate than the Spurs.

He is absolutely right. You guys need to stop getting schooled by Lakers fans. It's embarrassing. Lakers fans are usually the dumbest basketball fans on the planet. So . . . step it up.

Oh, and to House:
Are you sure that you have never analyzed player to player match ups before? I think you have . . . just sayin'.

ohmwrecker

08-23-2009, 03:31 PM

On second thought, Mavs fans are dumber than Lakers fans, but they get to plead insanity.

crc21209

08-23-2009, 03:49 PM

Basketball doesn't work that way. You can't take a player by player matchup and then predict the winner.

How the pieces fit matters just as much. Right now, the Lakers are basically bringing back the same core and have fewer new pieces to integrate than the Spurs.

The same core except for the fact that you lost a very important, defensive minded 3 pt shooter, and most important...unselfish player. And you gained a good defensive player, sometimes ball hogger, and headcase.

DrHouse

08-23-2009, 04:19 PM

The same core except for the fact that you lost a very important, defensive minded 3 pt shooter, and most important...unselfish player. And you gained a good defensive player, sometimes ball hogger, and headcase.

Trevor Ariza was a good piece, but he is certainly not an irreplaceable player. In fact of the Laker's starting 5 last season he was certainly the most replaceable player. You don't shoot yourself in the foot and pay $8 million for a guy like Ariza. He played hardball with his agent and lost, and the Lakers got Ron Artest for a cheaper price. IMHO, the Lakers were incredibly lucky and fortunate.

The key to this offseason was resigning Odom.

Muser

08-23-2009, 04:28 PM

Will Odom go back to playing like shit now he's been got his money, will Artest be fully focused, will Blair pan out as people hope, will Duncan/Ginobili stay healthy, will both teams stay healthy for that matter.

Too many questions to have any idea what could happen.

TD 21

08-23-2009, 05:15 PM

Basketball doesn't work that way. You can't take a player by player matchup and then predict the winner.

How the pieces fit matters just as much. Right now, the Lakers are basically bringing back the same core and have fewer new pieces to integrate than the Spurs.

You've misunderstood the post. I didn't "predict the winner" based on my putting >,<, or =, to indicate who individually has the advantage in each head to head matchup. I never claimed based on this it means "the Spurs will win", or "the Spurs should be favored", you're reading too much into it. I know how basketball works.

Gutter92

08-23-2009, 10:44 PM

Trevor Ariza was a good piece, but he is certainly not an irreplaceable player. In fact of the Laker's starting 5 last season he was certainly the most replaceable player. You don't shoot yourself in the foot and pay $8 million for a guy like Ariza. He played hardball with his agent and lost, and the Lakers got Ron Artest for a cheaper price. IMHO, the Lakers were incredibly lucky and fortunate.

The key to this offseason was resigning Odom.

They were really lucky by paying close to 20M a year for Odom?

2Cleva

08-23-2009, 11:31 PM

They were really lucky by paying close to 20M a year for Odom?

If you count lux tax, LO makes $15 mil (7.5 this year). That's about what SA is paying Jefferson (14.2) before tax.

LA kept LO at a steal price.

Man In Black

08-24-2009, 12:24 AM

If you count lux tax, LO makes $15 mil (7.5 this year). That's about what SA is paying Jefferson (14.2) before tax.

LA kept LO at a steal price.
The difference is...Jefferson gets to keep the bulk of that cash that SA is paying him. LO is making much, much less. It's true LA had to pay more because of the Cap but if Dr. Buss didn't sign him, truthfully...without LO, if Kobe goes down with an injury for any real length of time, then LA is done.

VivaPopovich

08-24-2009, 12:38 AM

Bonner will be starting. Book it.

Ok, I'll take that bet. How much?

He will not start.

Gutter92

08-24-2009, 12:45 AM

If you count lux tax, LO makes $15 mil (7.5 this year). That's about what SA is paying Jefferson (14.2) before tax.

LA kept LO at a steal price.

15mill is a steal price?

and in 2 years almost 18 mill?

DrHouse

08-24-2009, 01:08 AM

The Lakers by every conceivable margin will be a better team next season.

Championship mettle goes a long way.

My Fault

08-24-2009, 01:29 AM

If you count lux tax, LO makes $15 mil (7.5 this year). That's about what SA is paying Jefferson (14.2) before tax.

LA kept LO at a steal price.
If he keeps his PO performance up they did. The mismatch he creates would make it one for sure.

crc21209

08-24-2009, 08:45 AM

The Lakers by every conceivable margin will be a better team next season.

Championship mettle goes a long way.

Of course the road was somewhat easy as the Lakers went thru an injury depleted Jazz team, a Houston team who lost their #1 player in the middle of the series, and a Nuggets team who was talented enough, but not smart enough to beat the Lakers, and then take on a very inexperienced Magic team who wasnt ready for the Finals.

DrHouse

08-24-2009, 10:21 AM

Of course the road was somewhat easy as the Spurs went thru a horrific Nugget team, a PHX team that played no defense and had their best players suspended for a game for merely getting up off the bench in the middle of the series, a Utah team that had no business being in the WCF, and then take on a inexperienced Cleveland team who wasnt ready for the Finals.

resistanze

08-24-2009, 10:34 AM

This is why DrHouse is the best antagonistic Laker Fan.

Muser

08-24-2009, 10:37 AM

Stop with the "Lakers had an easy path to the title" bullshit, you can only beat the team that is put in front of you, be that a good team like the Lakers or a suck ass team like the Kings.

hater

08-24-2009, 10:40 AM

but they did have an easy path. facts are facts

DrHouse

08-24-2009, 11:56 AM

but they did have an easy path. facts are facts

As did the Spurs in '07. Facts are facts.

At least the Lakers were the undisputed best team in both the regular season and post season.

DPG21920

08-24-2009, 12:11 PM

Didn't the Cavs have the best RS record?

hater

08-24-2009, 12:15 PM

As did the Spurs in '07. Facts are facts.

At least the Lakers were the undisputed best team in both the regular season and post season.

in 07 the Suns were clearly the best team after the Spurs. They even had a chance to go up on the Spurs in the series if not by Amare's dumbass. (read a rulebook for a change)

The same cannot be said about the Lakers 09* championship. (Celtics, the defending champ suffered major injury)

lefty

08-24-2009, 12:28 PM

Pop has a secret combo to beat L.A:

Mason as SF
McDyess as backup PG
Manu in street clothes

carrao45

08-24-2009, 12:42 PM

Starters:

PF- McDyess < Gasol: As solid a player is McDyess still is, Gasol is a top 15 player in the world at this point. McDyess is good enough to not have this be a landslide, but it's still a clear Lakers advantage. No, it is a landslide

SF- Jefferson = Artest: For now I'll hold off on declaring who has the advantage, because we haven't seen how they'll fit into their respective new teams, but Jefferson is a slightly better player. He's a more complete scorer, and if he's not quite the defender Artest is, he figures to get back to being an above average one in his new role. True, it's hard to tell

C- Duncan > Bynum: This post will be long enough by the time it's done, I'm not wasting my time writing a detailed write up of something so obvious.

SG- Mason < Bryant: See "C- Duncan > Bynum:"

PG- Parker > Fisher: This is hands down the biggest advantage either team will have. The Lakers are known to struggle defending quick, penetrating point guards and defending the pick-and-roll. Too bad Parker is the best of the former, and one of the best in executing the latter. This one, more than any other could decide a potential playoff series between the two teams.
I don't know Kobe regularly shits on the Spurs, but yeahDerek cannot guard Tony. But the Lakers are not the 2008 Lakers, they are good at defending the pick&roll now

Bench:

PF- Bonner/PF- Blair/C- Ratliff < PF/SF- Odom: Who knows what backup big man combination the Spurs deploy against the Lakers, but it won't change this verdict. All three are basically specialists: Bonner is a 3 point shooter, Blair a dominant rebounder, and Ratliff a good shot blocker, but none can match the versatility and all around game of Odom. This is true considering Odom is as good at their specialties as they are

SF/SG- Finley > SF/PF- Walton: Even at his advanced age, Finley is still a lethal marksman from the outside and is cold blooded in the clutch. Walton is a decent facilitator and devoted practitioner of the triangle, but isn't especially good at anything.

SG- Ginobili > SG- Vujacic: Speaking of complete and total mismatches, this one ranks second to the starting PG's. Disregard Vujacic's pesky defense on a severely injured Ginobili in the '08 West Finals, and look at it logically: Vujacic is a mediocre player who's had one good season, and Ginobili is a top 15 player in the world, when healthy. Ginobili is not close to top 15. Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Melo, CP3, Dwight, D-Will, Dirk, Duncan, Tony Parker, Gasol, Garnett, Paul Pierce, Al Jefferson, Brandon Roy, Vince Carter, Joe Johnson, Derrick Rose, Danny Granger. They are all better than Ginobili, In fact, i proobably missed a few as well

PG/SG- Hill = PG- Farmar/SG/PG- Brown: All three are young, developing players who have yet to truly carve out a niche. Hill and Brown are very athletic and show the capabilities to be good defenders at both guard spots, while Farmar has the most upside offensively. Again, I'll hold off on declaring who has the advantage until I see who, if any, takes the biggest step forward in their development next season.

carrao45

08-24-2009, 12:43 PM

Is Blair laterally quick enough and defensively sound enough to effectively guard Odom off the dribble though? :lmao No Also, he'll be giving up about 3.5 inches defensively in the post, so can he keep Odom from getting deep post position, or can he get into his legs and root him, a la Hayes on Gasol? Obviously, with Blair having not yet played an official NBA game, these questions can't be answered, but they're things to ponder and watch for when these two teams meet in the regular season.

Last but not least, will Pop trust a rookie against the Lakers when he has veterans such as Bonner and Ratliff to turn to? I'm guessing that if Bonner continues to seem nervous and unsure of himself against elite teams and if Blair shows even a modicum of confidence and poise, the answer will be yes.

lennyalderette

08-24-2009, 01:50 PM

yeah you are right laker fan, but i think since the weight drop blair is going to guard mr.crack head artest, not odom as far as odom haislip is yes unproven in the nba as of now, but does have nba experience. he was also one of the most sought after euro players by elite teams in the nba. so upadate your arguements against us please

iggypop123

08-24-2009, 02:00 PM

blair=craig smith. guy that works hard even though he is 6'8 gets rebounds. nothing else

DPG21920

08-24-2009, 02:02 PM

Craig Smith > Sasha or Luke

The_Game

08-24-2009, 02:13 PM

Hasilp is garbage..the guy can't cut it in the NBA hense why he had to go to europe.