PDA

View Full Version : Ranking The Centers In The Southwest



duncan228
08-25-2009, 04:17 PM
Ranking the centers in the Southwest (http://www.examiner.com/x-1154-Houston-Rockets-Examiner~y2009m8d24-Ranking-the-centers-in-the-Southwest)
David Hartnett

It’s compelling to consider how drastically different the Southwest Division will be this upcoming season.

For a division that was decided last year on the last day of the regular season, it’s remarkable how different the teams that finished one and two in the division (San Antonio Spurs and Houston Rockets respectively) have fared in the four months since that fateful night (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-1154-Houston-Rockets-Examiner~y2009m4d16-15-years-and-counting).

Now before you go and begin to believe this piece is some sort of “Southwest Division preview” — it’s not. Training camps don’t begin for another month, and with possible transactions left to be made, it wouldn’t be wise to predict how the divisions will play out at this juncture in August.

Thus, with some recent moves that have changed the landscape of the center position within the division, it’s interesting to gain a perspective of how a once lauded position fares amongst the five teams.

Obviously the two main transactions that make this discussion relevant is the swap of Tyson Chandler for Emeka Okafor in New Orleans (http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=4634), and of course, Yao Ming’s injury (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-1154-Houston-Rockets-Examiner~y2009m6d29-Yaos-future-in-doubt).

And in terms of ranking the best big men in the Southwest, it’s important to establish the criteria: First, Tim Duncan isn’t on this list. He’s regarded as the “Best Power Forward Ever (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/2007-06-06-bonus-duncan_N.htm)” for a reason.

Furthermore, those on the list are the five assumed starters come opening night, hence why Yao is off this list, and why some may find the upcoming rankings somewhat intriguing.

1. Emeka Okafor (New Orleans Hornets)

Sure he hasn’t played a game yet in a Hornets’ uniform, but that isn’t to say based on his track record he isn’t the best center in the division. The aforementioned move that brought Okafor to N’awlins for another oft-injured, but solid defending center was practically a steal.

Chandler had a limited offensive game, and while his defense was solid, his success at the other end was contingent upon Chris Paul’s lob passes.

Nevertheless, despite the Hornets taking on additional years, and a lot more money with Okafor’s arrival, it at the very least improves the position.

And while Okafor is unlikely to develop into a perennial All-Star, the former second overall pick (http://www.nba.com/draft2004/)remains a solid defender and rebounder, with enough post moves to be a formidable presence in the low block.

2. Matt Bonner (San Antonio Spurs)

I’m not sure if it’s a testament to the player, or the lack of depth in the division when you’re proclaiming that a 6-10 center, who is a lackluster rebounder, and has no real post game, is the divison’s second-best center.

Matt Bonner (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/matt_bonner/index.html) (not to be confused with Brian Scalabrine (http://youarestruggling.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/brian-scalabrine1.jpg)) looks to be the Spurs’ starting center, and if you’re looking for a reason not to jump aboard the Spurs bandwagon (minus Duncan seemingly to breakdown in the second half, and Manu’s ankle) this is a good reason.

Can you see Bonner being the starting center on a championship caliber team? It’s hard to fathom.

Bonner is a solid bench player, but with Francisco Oberto and Kurt Thomas both gone, and a 36-year-old Theo Ratliff as your other option in the middle, it’s quite cause for alarm.

Nevertheless, Bonner is a capable shooter (44% from beyond the 3-point line last season) and is a great matchup problem to possess if you’re the Spurs.

But the question remains; Is Bonner an average to above-average center? jOr is the depth in the middle just THAT bad in the Southwest division?

3. David Andersen (Houston Rockets)

Initially, I was inclined to place Andersen ahead of Bonner. And while its quite possible he finishes ahead of Bonner (or whomever the Spurs throw out) by the end of the season, without having spent a minute against NBA competition, it’s hard to put ANdersen any higher on this list.

Watching his highlights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZlnVzmOn3c), he one thing becomes apparent: his post moves are solid. . Obviously, the highlights can be a bit misleading, and it’s only a small sample, but he seems to have good agility in the low block.

However, it’s apparent he may not necessarily have the bulk to bang with the bigs in the middle, but he was an Olympian, and part of five consecutive championship teams in Europe, so he’s not some stiff.
At best he could turn out to closely match the production of Luis Scola, and while not quite average a double-double, the Australian-born Andersen could demonstrate that he deserves to be in the Association.

However, the one that may cause some worry is that he was the backup to Andrew Bogut in the 2008 Olympics.

Bogut, while a serviceable center, hasn’t earned his “first overall pick” status; And while not quite a bust, the Aussie leaves much to be desired. So if Andersen is in fact inferior to Bogut, you wonder how well the 27-year-old Andersen will fare.

Nevertheless, looking at it from an optimistic outlook (and considering this is the offseason so it’s the time for optimism) Andersen will be placed in a good offensive scheme, surrounded by talented and “team-first” teammates, and being coached up by Rick Adelman (a better coach than anyone who has taught Bogut) it’s quite likely Andersen either matches, or surpasses the numbers Bogut has put up. Frankly, there would be very little surprise (at least by me) if Andersen surpasses 10 points per game and six to seven rebounds per game.

4. Erick Dampier (Dallas Mavericks)

Oh Erick, you’re so bad Dallas fans wanted you out of town halfway through the first year of your six-year contract.

Oh Erick, you’re so bad the Mavericks would be better off putting you on the bench, and collecting the $13 or so million you are due this season.

Oh Erick, you’re so bad you make Joey Dorsey and Chuck Hayes look like Hall of Famers.
(One more) Oh Erick, you’re so bad you will forever be remembered for proclaiming yourself to be the “Best Center in the West (http://www.yaomingmania.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5048&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=50560d4a52242a087bd81402294909f8&PHPSESSID=f)"… boy that looks bad.

Yes, Erick Dampier leaves much to be desired, and fortunately for our friends to the North, they are forced to suffer just for one more year.

5. Hasheem Thabeet (Memphis Grizzlies)

A lanky defender, with a limited offensive game, and not much muscle …sounds great!

The “poor man Dikembe Mutombo (http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2009/06/prospect-of-the-day---hasheem-thabeet.html)” comparisons are fair, but Thabeet has “bust (http://blacksportsonline.com/index/2008/07/28/kwame_brown-arton20888-240x240.jpg)” written all over him. That’s not to say he can’t develop into a formidable player, for much of his Junior season he was the best player on the court, and he is still quite raw, with much to learn about the game.

But discussions about Thabeet’s career path can be saved for another time and date, but for now, he’s likely to be the starter come game one (unless the Grizzlies’ first office realize it’s wise to slowly assimilate into the NBA and have Gasol assume center duties early), considering he was the second overall pick in the 2009 draft (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft), we’ll act under the assumption that Thabeet attempts to offer some return on the Grizzlies investment.

Texas_Ranger
08-25-2009, 04:20 PM
So Erica isn't the 2nd best center in the NBA?

:lol:lol:lol @ Bonner at 2

DPG21920
08-25-2009, 04:21 PM
lol Mavs

duncan228
08-25-2009, 04:22 PM
:lol:lol:lol @ Bonner at 2

I was going to open the post like this: :lmao

dbestpro
08-25-2009, 04:29 PM
Bonner won't even start. You might as well say Blair is the number 5 best center because he owns Thabeet.

1. Okafor
2. McDeyess
3. Blair
4. Bonner
5. Dampier

Brazil
08-25-2009, 04:35 PM
bonner>dampier

Ditty
08-25-2009, 04:37 PM
lol mavs and dampier

Ghazi
08-25-2009, 04:39 PM
Dampier is better than Bonner, not even sure how that's debatable. And who the fuck is David Andersen?

howbouthemspurs
08-25-2009, 04:43 PM
lol... Bonner? Really?!? wow. .. ...Well big ups for Bonner for getting some respect!

Supergirl
08-25-2009, 04:47 PM
I predict DeJuan Blair will blow all those guys away, and I can say definitively that McDyess is better than all the guys not named Okafor already.

Ghazi
08-25-2009, 04:48 PM
Bonner won't even start. You might as well say Blair is the number 5 best center because he owns Thabeet.

1. Okafor
2. McDeyess
3. Blair
4. Bonner
5. Dampier

Too bad Bonner/Blair/McDyess aren't centers.

Supergirl
08-25-2009, 04:48 PM
Bonner won't even start. You might as well say Blair is the number 5 best center because he owns Thabeet.

1. Okafor
2. McDeyess
3. Blair
4. Bonner
5. Dampier

yes. +1

easy7
08-25-2009, 04:51 PM
Bonner > Dampier.... :lmao

timaios
08-25-2009, 04:57 PM
When Bonner is in the game, Tim Duncan IS the Spurs center !

Muser
08-25-2009, 05:01 PM
Wow

Damp > Bonner + Andersen.

DPG21920
08-25-2009, 05:02 PM
Dampier is better than Bonner, not even sure how that's debatable. And who the fuck is David Andersen?

Sorry, this is a heavy dose of reality for you Ghazi.

TD 21
08-25-2009, 05:02 PM
You have to seriously question whether some of these writers even watch the NBA, or do they pick up information along the way just from surfing the net on NBA related news?

If you want to consider Duncan the Spurs starting power forward, that's fine, since he's listed as it and prefers to go by it, but Bonner in the middle? McDyess will more than likely be the starter.

Thabeet won't be starting for the Grizzlies, Gasol will. So really, it should look like this: Okafor, McDyess, Gasol, Anderson, Dampier.

DPG21920
08-25-2009, 05:10 PM
I could see Gasol at PF or probably Zach Randolph and Thabeet at C. Memphis has nothing to lose, so why not give the young guy you drafted #2 the burn?

But I agree. It is a big assumption to think Thabeet will have more of an impact than Gasol next year. He does look pretty good in flashes though.

TD 21
08-25-2009, 05:21 PM
While you may see it for the odd stretch or two, I suspect you'll rarely see a Gasol-Thabeet duo in the front court at the same time. The way the game is played now it's rare that a team can put two plodding, not all that mobile behemoths together. They'd get burned by the pick-and-roll defensively, and offensively they'd struggle together as well because of the overall lack of shooting range between the two.

Why not start Thabeet, you say? Because he's clearly not ready, and Gasol is a solid, if limited, center. Randolph will start and play the vast majority of his minutes at power forward, with Arthur backing him up. Thabeet has bust written all over him, but if he eventually grasps the NBA game he'll hang around long enough to carve out a lucrative career as a shot blocker/rim protector, and post defender against Howard, Bynum, Oden, Hibbert, etc.

DPG21920
08-25-2009, 05:33 PM
I think you are seriously underestimating Thabeets quickness. From what I have seen, he defends the PnR quite nicely.

We will see if it was a fluke.

That is what I said about Randolph. He will start and I can see Thabeet starting as well. He might be a bust, but you used your number 2 pick on him and you have no shot at the playoffs, so let him grow.

Strike
08-25-2009, 05:44 PM
lol... Bonner? Really?!? wow. .. ...Well big ups for Bonner for getting some respect!

Maybe someday he'll actually do something to EARN and DESERVE such respect.

TD 21
08-25-2009, 05:51 PM
Fair enough, but the combination sounds like one that you can rarely get away with in today's NBA.

Number two pick or not, he's not ready to start, and probably not even ready to play. They're a bad team, and a terrible organization that is desperate to prove they made the right choice, so I suspect they'll throw him to the wolves from day one, but it's not like Gasol is not part of their future. He's young himself, more polished and skilled than Thabeet, and is coming off of a solid rookie season. I suspect long term they'll be an offense/defense tag team.

VivaPopovich
08-25-2009, 06:00 PM
Matt Bonner #2?

Hasheem Thabeet without even watching him play an NBA game?

If I could rank all the "Ranking the Centers in the Southwest" articles this would be last.

Okafor, Yao, Marc Gasol, Dampier, McDyess, Ratliff.. David Andersen, maybe some day, but not right now.

DPG21920
08-25-2009, 06:17 PM
I really like Gasol. A lot. I just think all of the cards add up and he will get PT. Zach Randolph will get the lions share of minutes at the PF and you can have Thabeet with him because Zach will be the offense.

But you never know with Memphis. If they think they have a shot at winning, I can see Marc and Zach starting and Thabeet off of the bench. It would behoove them to play the rookie though, all things considered.

There are a lot of questions about Thabeet, but he has shown some flashes. Only time will tell, and I am still skeptical about him. He has a lot to work on and being in Memphis with that terrible ownership and Randolph as a role model does not bode well. Hopefully he is mentally strong.

TD 21
08-25-2009, 06:34 PM
I really like Gasol. A lot. I just think all of the cards add up and he will get PT. Zach Randolph will get the lions share of minutes at the PF and you can have Thabeet with him because Zach will be the offense.

But you never know with Memphis. If they think they have a shot at winning, I can see Marc and Zach starting and Thabeet off of the bench. It would behoove them to play the rookie though, all things considered.

There are a lot of questions about Thabeet, but he has shown some flashes. Only time will tell, and I am still skeptical about him. He has a lot to work on and being in Memphis with that terrible ownership and Randolph as a role model does not bode well. Hopefully he is mentally strong.

I hate to judge too early generally (and this is really early considering he's yet to play an NBA game), but I've watched enough basketball for long enough to know when I see all the earmarks of a potential bust, and he fits the bill. Also, he doesn't appear to be mentally strong, he seems like Brown, who played soft and confused when he entered the league, and eventually had his confidence shattered.

Randolph will probably play 33-35 mpg, Gasol 28-30 mpg, Thabeet 15-20 mpg, and Arthur 15-20 mpg.

DPG21920
08-25-2009, 06:38 PM
I can see that shaping up. I am saying I would want to give Thabeet minutes early and see how he does. If he does well, you keep him in. If he starts to fail, you can always put Gasol in and give him the minutes. He will be ready.

When you are a team like Memphis and you have no real shot at making the playoffs, it would be smart to force feed your #2 pick minutes whether he deserves them or not.

TD 21
08-25-2009, 06:50 PM
He can get adequate minutes backing up Gasol. I'm not sure why you'd want to potentially alienate a good, young player coming off of a solid rookie season for no reason? Thabeet should back him up until or unless he proves otherwise. Number two pick or not, this is more than likely not a future franchise player, or even top three player for a team. The idea is that he evolves into a defensive force, something along the lines of Diop.

DPG21920
08-25-2009, 06:56 PM
They had better hope he is a major part of it if they burned the 2nd pick on him. If he does not do well compared to those in his draft that is not good.

slick'81
08-25-2009, 06:57 PM
bonner better than neone at nething is just sad :)

dbestpro
08-25-2009, 08:22 PM
Spurs third string center who is really a PF > starting center for the Mavs.

Danny.Zhu
08-25-2009, 09:35 PM
:lol


:lol:lol:lol @ Bonner at 2

bigfan
08-25-2009, 10:12 PM
Ranking the centers in the Southwest (http://www.examiner.com/x-1154-Houston-Rockets-Examiner~y2009m8d24-Ranking-the-centers-in-the-Southwest)
David Hartnett

It’s compelling to consider how drastically different the Southwest Division will be this upcoming season.

For a division that was decided last year on the last day of the regular season, it’s remarkable how different the teams that finished one and two in the division (San Antonio Spurs and Houston Rockets respectively) have fared in the four months since that fateful night (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-1154-Houston-Rockets-Examiner~y2009m4d16-15-years-and-counting).

Now before you go and begin to believe this piece is some sort of “Southwest Division preview” — it’s not. Training camps don’t begin for another month, and with possible transactions left to be made, it wouldn’t be wise to predict how the divisions will play out at this juncture in August.

Thus, with some recent moves that have changed the landscape of the center position within the division, it’s interesting to gain a perspective of how a once lauded position fares amongst the five teams.

Obviously the two main transactions that make this discussion relevant is the swap of Tyson Chandler for Emeka Okafor in New Orleans (http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=4634), and of course, Yao Ming’s injury (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-1154-Houston-Rockets-Examiner~y2009m6d29-Yaos-future-in-doubt).

And in terms of ranking the best big men in the Southwest, it’s important to establish the criteria: First, Tim Duncan isn’t on this list. He’s regarded as the “Best Power Forward Ever (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/2007-06-06-bonus-duncan_N.htm)” for a reason.

Furthermore, those on the list are the five assumed starters come opening night, hence why Yao is off this list, and why some may find the upcoming rankings somewhat intriguing.

1. Emeka Okafor (New Orleans Hornets)

Sure he hasn’t played a game yet in a Hornets’ uniform, but that isn’t to say based on his track record he isn’t the best center in the division. The aforementioned move that brought Okafor to N’awlins for another oft-injured, but solid defending center was practically a steal.

Chandler had a limited offensive game, and while his defense was solid, his success at the other end was contingent upon Chris Paul’s lob passes.

Nevertheless, despite the Hornets taking on additional years, and a lot more money with Okafor’s arrival, it at the very least improves the position.

And while Okafor is unlikely to develop into a perennial All-Star, the former second overall pick (http://www.nba.com/draft2004/)remains a solid defender and rebounder, with enough post moves to be a formidable presence in the low block.

2. Matt Bonner (San Antonio Spurs)

I’m not sure if it’s a testament to the player, or the lack of depth in the division when you’re proclaiming that a 6-10 center, who is a lackluster rebounder, and has no real post game, is the divison’s second-best center.

Matt Bonner (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/matt_bonner/index.html) (not to be confused with Brian Scalabrine (http://youarestruggling.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/brian-scalabrine1.jpg)) looks to be the Spurs’ starting center, and if you’re looking for a reason not to jump aboard the Spurs bandwagon (minus Duncan seemingly to breakdown in the second half, and Manu’s ankle) this is a good reason.

Can you see Bonner being the starting center on a championship caliber team? It’s hard to fathom.

Bonner is a solid bench player, but with Francisco Oberto and Kurt Thomas both gone, and a 36-year-old Theo Ratliff as your other option in the middle, it’s quite cause for alarm.

Nevertheless, Bonner is a capable shooter (44% from beyond the 3-point line last season) and is a great matchup problem to possess if you’re the Spurs.

But the question remains; Is Bonner an average to above-average center? jOr is the depth in the middle just THAT bad in the Southwest division?

3. David Andersen (Houston Rockets)

Initially, I was inclined to place Andersen ahead of Bonner. And while its quite possible he finishes ahead of Bonner (or whomever the Spurs throw out) by the end of the season, without having spent a minute against NBA competition, it’s hard to put ANdersen any higher on this list.

Watching his highlights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZlnVzmOn3c), he one thing becomes apparent: his post moves are solid. . Obviously, the highlights can be a bit misleading, and it’s only a small sample, but he seems to have good agility in the low block.

However, it’s apparent he may not necessarily have the bulk to bang with the bigs in the middle, but he was an Olympian, and part of five consecutive championship teams in Europe, so he’s not some stiff.
At best he could turn out to closely match the production of Luis Scola, and while not quite average a double-double, the Australian-born Andersen could demonstrate that he deserves to be in the Association.

However, the one that may cause some worry is that he was the backup to Andrew Bogut in the 2008 Olympics.

Bogut, while a serviceable center, hasn’t earned his “first overall pick” status; And while not quite a bust, the Aussie leaves much to be desired. So if Andersen is in fact inferior to Bogut, you wonder how well the 27-year-old Andersen will fare.

Nevertheless, looking at it from an optimistic outlook (and considering this is the offseason so it’s the time for optimism) Andersen will be placed in a good offensive scheme, surrounded by talented and “team-first” teammates, and being coached up by Rick Adelman (a better coach than anyone who has taught Bogut) it’s quite likely Andersen either matches, or surpasses the numbers Bogut has put up. Frankly, there would be very little surprise (at least by me) if Andersen surpasses 10 points per game and six to seven rebounds per game.

4. Erick Dampier (Dallas Mavericks)

Oh Erick, you’re so bad Dallas fans wanted you out of town halfway through the first year of your six-year contract.

Oh Erick, you’re so bad the Mavericks would be better off putting you on the bench, and collecting the $13 or so million you are due this season.

Oh Erick, you’re so bad you make Joey Dorsey and Chuck Hayes look like Hall of Famers.
(One more) Oh Erick, you’re so bad you will forever be remembered for proclaiming yourself to be the “Best Center in the West (http://www.yaomingmania.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5048&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=50560d4a52242a087bd81402294909f8&PHPSESSID=f)"… boy that looks bad.

Yes, Erick Dampier leaves much to be desired, and fortunately for our friends to the North, they are forced to suffer just for one more year.

5. Hasheem Thabeet (Memphis Grizzlies)

A lanky defender, with a limited offensive game, and not much muscle …sounds great!

The “poor man Dikembe Mutombo (http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2009/06/prospect-of-the-day---hasheem-thabeet.html)” comparisons are fair, but Thabeet has “bust (http://blacksportsonline.com/index/2008/07/28/kwame_brown-arton20888-240x240.jpg)” written all over him. That’s not to say he can’t develop into a formidable player, for much of his Junior season he was the best player on the court, and he is still quite raw, with much to learn about the game.

But discussions about Thabeet’s career path can be saved for another time and date, but for now, he’s likely to be the starter come game one (unless the Grizzlies’ first office realize it’s wise to slowly assimilate into the NBA and have Gasol assume center duties early), considering he was the second overall pick in the 2009 draft (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft), we’ll act under the assumption that Thabeet attempts to offer some return on the Grizzlies investment.


my ass......... Bonner will be Mr Pinerider next year.

ohmwrecker
08-25-2009, 10:32 PM
Jesus. I hope Pop doesn't read this article.

ohmwrecker
08-25-2009, 10:34 PM
Oh, and for the love of Pete, do you guys have to quote the whole damn article all the time?!