Jax wants out..

[mfanatic]

Why not? That's not even that small, VERY similar to what the lakers do:

Parker - Fischer
Manu - Kobe
RJ - Artest
Sjax - Odom
Duncan - Pau

I'm all in.

[EricB]

It's funny how everyone is ga ga over Stephen Jackson now. True, Jax hit some big, big shots against Dallas in the WCF, 03. Aside from that isolated (albeit great) performance however, I cringed whenever he had the ball. His turnovers don't seem statistically to have been that big of a deal, but they seemed to come at the worst possible times. If we get him back, so be it, but I can't see Pop et al blowing their wads (and their trade bait) right now--especially given Pop's statements to effect that as long as he was around, Stephen wouldn't be.

How about the shots against Phoenix.

Hell he was the MVP against Phoenix.

What about the shots against New Jersey?

:lol

Ye short memories....

[mountainballer]

jesus, is it really that difficult to see that in the current situation Sjax doesn't make that much sense for the Spurs?
if the Spurs in fact were willing to pull another major trade this summer (which is totally unlikely), it wouldn't be for a player like Sjax. what this roster still could use, are role players with a defensive game. (sjax can defend well occasionally, but he isn't a defensive role player, not even a bit)

[ducks]

How about the shots against Phoenix.

Hell he was the MVP against Phoenix.

What about the shots against New Jersey?

:lol

Ye short memories....

did you forget last year playoffs sj was in
he was so not clutch

[Spursfan 87]

Mason and Bonner for Sjax. This deal make sense for both teams. It will add financial flexibility to the Warriors going in 2010, and for the spurs, it assures a contending team until the duncan era is over.

As for manu' contract next year, we have to remember that Timmeh is going to take about 4M less next year to allow the spurs to re-sign manu. Also Finley and Theo are off the books next season, with that money we can bring Tiago next season, and bring up Jack MAck for the minimum to replace Finley.

Come on, RC make it happen.

[ducks]

who is to say manu will resign with spurs

he did fly to denver last time he was a fa

[ChumpDumper]

I think it's a little unrealistic to expect the Spurs to take on that kind of contract when the new CBA isn't on the books.

[Flux451]

Why not? That's not even that small, VERY similar to what the lakers do:

Parker - Fischer
Manu - Kobe
RJ - Artest
Sjax - Odom
Duncan - Pau

I'm all in.

Two things.

THe lakers haven't played Artest yet. So we don't know what they will or will not do

Odom is 6'10", how is that small ball if he is included in the PF position?

[Mel_13]

I think it's a little unrealistic to expect the Spurs to take on that kind of contract when the new CBA isn't on the books.


ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!

While the salary cap and lux tax numbers for 2010 are a bit murky and difficult to predict, the numbers for 2011 and beyond are completely unknown. Duncan's contract is the only big number that extends past the summer of 2011. Nearly all the additional financial obligations assumed by the Spurs this summer are contained to the next two seasons.

If ownership is willing to take the risks associated with Jackson's contract, then that would be great. It would make the team better for the upcoming season and it's not my money. I would, however, be very surprised if it actually happens.

[Spursfan 87]

How about the shots against Phoenix.

Hell he was the MVP against Phoenix.

What about the shots against New Jersey?

:lol

Ye short memories....

+1

They did not watch the 03 Spurs

Sjax was the second best player on that team behind duncan. Also that year the spurs were succesful against kobe not just because of bowen, but for the 3 headed monster we had to guard him that year, Bowen, Manu and Sjax., each one brought something different to the table against kobe. We can have that again with Rj, Manu and Sjax, not to mention that with Sjax we can solve the matchup problems with Odom and Dirk.

[JonNOKC]

I agree with your conclusion, with the caveat that obtaining Jackson does not preclude signing Manu to an extension if justified by his health and level of play.

For the sake of accuracy, though, your numbers are still off. The first two sets of numbers you have for Jackson are from the Indiana and GS portions of the 2006-2007 season, not two separate seasons. When you use his totals for each season, you will see that Manu has had a better ratio in every season in which both players have been in the NBA.:toast

Appreciate the correction - my bad on stats - but I am totally with you that if Holt is willing to stay in LT for 4 years and getting SJAX in no way effects the decision on Manu then you do this deal - btw wasn't trying to say that SJAX is the playmaker or player that Manu is only that his TOs stats compared to other scorers of similiar talents is on par with what you would ecpect.

[mfanatic]

Two things.

THe lakers haven't played Artest yet. So we don't know what they will or will not do

Odom is 6'10", how is that small ball if he is included in the PF position?


Odom is only about an inch taller than Jackson, not that big of a difference.

I'd rather have jackson in there rather than Dyess because Jackson can spread all the way out to the three point line.

[coyotes_geek]

No thanks. Too big a contract, too much uncertainty that he'd be willing to accept a role where he doesn't get to put up 20 shots a night. Plus it would result in too thin a bench.

[DPG21920]

I think it's a little unrealistic to expect the Spurs to take on that kind of contract when the new CBA isn't on the books.

That is a great point. Heck, even if things were known it would still be a bad long term contract.

[ohmwrecker]

Agreed. If there is a deal breaker here for the Spurs it is Jackson's contract. Chemistry wise, it is a great deal. Jackson knows the system and won a title with the big three. The only other problem is that Golden State might not want to take scraps for Jackson and the Spurs should not risk too much to get him. The Spurs could offer expiring contracts to Golden State, but not much talent. Especially if Dallas is willing to give up Josh Howard, whose baggage might be a problem for any other team except the Warriors, who seem to have a knack for picking up numbnuts. Cleveland is a long shot, but if they are willing to give up a couple of key role players (and the Warriors are willing to accept their contracts), Jackson would probably have the most impact on the Cavs.

[DPG21920]

Now I kind of want this to happen :lol. I am just flopping back and forth on it, but the more I think about (from a fans perspective) it would be almost impossible to pass up Sjax if it only cost Mason, Finley and Bonner or especially just 2 of the three.

It would give so many options to Pop and improve the defense dramatically. I do not like the long-term effects, but damn what a team until Duncan retires.

Also, SJax would be the true Manu insurance, not RJ. RJ was brought in to add to Manu in order to at least give the Spurs a fighting chance to win a title. If Manu was hurt, RJ would mean nothing because the Spurs won't win a title.

If you get SJax and Manu stays healthy you will have a sick team. If Manu gets hurt, the Spurs still have a good shot with RJ/Duncan/Parker and SJ.

[benefactor]

It would certainly create a roster crunch though position wise. Manu, Steven Jackson and Richard Jefferson; who would be playing in crunch time? Steven Jackson would be Manu insurance, but if Manu stays healthy, then there would be some serious questions that need to be answered.

I don't see the Spurs playing super small ball with TP, Manu, RJ, SJ and Tim in crunch time.
I actually see it as more of a luxury. It gives us options at crunch time depending on the match ups and who is playing better.

There is a good chance that Jack will spend the majority of his time at SG. He can slide to the SF when RJ goes to the bench and Manu comes in. In a playoff series, the match ups can be assessed and either RJ or Jack will be on the floor late in games depending on which is better at exploiting their opponent on both ends of the floor.

[benefactor]

Now I kind of want this to happen :lol. I am just flopping back and forth on it, but the more I think about (from a fans perspective) it would be almost impossible to pass up Sjax if it only cost Mason, Finley and Bonner or especially just 2 of the three.

It would give so many options to Pop and improve the defense dramatically. I do not like the long-term effects, but damn what a team until Duncan retires.

Also, SJax would be the true Manu insurance, not RJ. RJ was brought in to add to Manu in order to at least give the Spurs a fighting chance to win a title. If Manu was hurt, RJ would mean nothing because the Spurs won't win a title.

If you get SJax and Manu stays healthy you will have a sick team. If Manu gets hurt, the Spurs still have a good shot with RJ/Duncan/Parker and SJ.
Yeah...even with the bad contract it would be difficult to say no to. If the Spurs are really wanting to go balls out to win now it's worth it.

[ohmwrecker]

If the Warriors would accept any combination of Bonner, Finley, Mason or Williams, I would pull the trigger. I wouldn't give up anyone else though, I'm on the fence about Mahinmi. It's a pretty hefty contract, but I think it would give the Spurs the best chance to win a title(s) for the next couple of seasons. It's probably as close to a "no brainer" as the Spurs are going to get.

Death or Glory!

[exstatic]

Get Jack!!
http://www.hsutx.edu/admin/hr/Employees/aflac_1.jpg

[Flux451]

Odom is only about an inch taller than Jackson, not that big of a difference.

I'd rather have jackson in there rather than Dyess because Jackson can spread all the way out to the three point line.

:lol

[exstatic]

I actually see it as more of a luxury. It gives us options at crunch time depending on the match ups and who is playing better.

There is a good chance that Jack will spend the majority of his time at SG. He can slide to the SF when RJ goes to the bench and Manu comes in. In a playoff series, the match ups can be assessed and either RJ or Jack will be on the floor late in games depending on which is better at exploiting their opponent on both ends of the floor.

Spurs plays don't differentiate between the 2 and the 3 or the 4 and the 5 on offense. They are wing/wing and post/post. On the Christmas play in PHO last year, I remember that one of the wings (Manu/Mase) called for the switch on the floor, and Mase ended up with the ball on a play intended for Manu.

[ducks]

Anyone remember how he just man handled the 07 Mavs? He went on a 13-0 run on his own in the close out game.

avs no d

[VivaPopovich]

Jax wants out? Who? Phil Jax? Perfect!

[completely deck]

Anyone remember how he just man handled the 07 Mavs? He went on a 13-0 run on his own in the close out game.

Anyone remember when Finley--

You get my point.

[exstatic]

Anyone remember when Finley--

You get my point.

No, I don't remember Finley EVER produced in the playoffs like Jack did. You get my point?

[Mel_13]

No, I don't remember Finley EVER produced in the playoffs like Jack did. You get my point?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=270502024

[SinBAD]

www.hoopshype.com
This will be bad news for the spurs if the mavs get jax
Much Ado About Stephen Jackson

Back in November, Warriors guard Stephen Jackson signed a $28 million extension to remain in Golden State through 2013. Nine months later, with his financial future pretty much solidified, he wants out. Thank you for all the money, Golden State, but now I'd like to win some games, please.

Jackson has reportedly informed his current team that he's got a five-team wish list that includes Cleveland, New York, Houston, San Antonio, and Dallas. Less than a day after this story broke, we're already hearing that the Mavericks could be the frontrunner.

According to DallasBasketball.com, Don Nelson is preparing to start swapping trade ideas with the Mavericks, who must have some assets that Golden State is interested in. Anyone who takes a long, hard look at Dallas's roster, however, would have a difficult time putting together a logical trade for the Warriors. The only player who makes even an iota of sense is Josh Howard, who the Mavericks still like and Don Nelson is reported to think is a bit soft. If not Howard, then who is supposed to be the main piece in this rumored deal?

The twist here is that Jackson might not even be the guy Nelson is hoping to cash out. One of the most effective statistical shooting guards in the league with 20.7 points, 6.5 assists, and 5.1 rebounds per game, Jackson is actually a pretty important piece for the Warriors. Why would they have paid him so much money to stay there if they didn't believe that?

No, in saying that he could be in the market to move a significant rotation player, the belief is the guy Don Nelson wants to move could be Monta Ellis, not Jackson. Ellis has spent a good deal of time in Nelson's doghouse (not a fun place to be as many of his former players could tell you), meaning Jackson could see his chance to be traded drift away pretty quickly if the Warriors choose to deal his backcourt mate instead of himself.

If the Mavericks aren't interested in absorbing Jackson's huge contract, which of the other four teams he listed are real possibilities? Certainly not Cleveland, who invested good money this offseason to shore up their depth at the swing positions and already have quite a bit of money tied up in their current roster. San Antonio also seems pretty set at shooting guard and small forward with Manu Ginobili and Richard Jefferson, leaving only New York and Houston as realistic possibilities if Dallas doesn't work out.

It would require Golden State to give up much more than Stephen Jackson, but someone like Tracy McGrady could provide them with a similar player to Jackson but whose $22 million salary comes off the books next summer. It would be hard to get salaries to match, but its that cap space the Warriors would want to return for S-Jax.

As for New York, Jackson would be reunited with his buddy Al Harrington, who he's still reportedly upset about having been traded away from him in the first place. The Knicks have a ton of expiring contracts they could offer up in a number of different combinations, but they're saving that to woo LeBron James and Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. To sacrifice that space they'd have to return a superstar—a level of play which Jackson hasn't quite reached in his career.

None of his five destinations create an obvious trade scenario, but at some point the Warriors will have to decide if they want to spend the next four seasons listening to Jackson gripe about playing for a team that's missed the postseason 14 of the last 15 years. Dallas may be the rumored "frontrunner" for now, but that could change very quickly if Monta Ellis is the guy they're targeting instead of the player who has publicly asked to be traded.

[exstatic]

Jackson thread!!!


http://www.davidsfunnyfarm.com/images/ars_ibtl.jpg

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's funny how everyone is ga ga over Stephen Jackson now. True, Jax hit some big, big shots against Dallas in the WCF, 03.

Someone obviously skipped watching the NBA Finals against the Nets.

[ducks]

Someone obviously skipped watching the NBA Finals against the Nets.

we live in the furture you live in the past when manu was not hurt

[Danny.Zhu]

Mavs is making movements.

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=1974

[anonoftheinternets]

well obv if all it took was mason/finley/bonner, spurs fo would have offered that to GSW by now. If the trade doesnt happen, its only coz don nelson wanted something else.

[Spursfan 87]

I think that the spurs need to add some draft picks to make this happen. What GS wants is financial flexibility for 2010 (expiring contracts) and draft picks.

I think that there only 2 possibilities where jack can end up: Dallas and SA.

NY only wants expiring contracts to have enough money to bring lebron next summer.

The Cavs dont have the pieces to make work.

And Houston is in rebuilding mode, although they have the pieces to make it work, I dont think they are going to take any long term contract, especially with Tmac coming off the books next year.

[Spursfan 87]

Happens all the time. The Spurs might have offered Finley Bonner Williams. No? How bout Finley Bonner Williams and the rights to James Gist? No?

Well how about Finley Bonner williams, Gist and a second round pick? No?

On and on it could go. the Warriors would also have to weigh the Spurs offer to the Mavs offer. The Warriors are not the bucks, they will look to get something for Jackson. They could say to the Spurs, hey your rivals the Mavericks are offering this this and this, we will give you a week to give us an offer we like better. Then the Warriors could day to the Mavs, hey the Spurs just matched and raised you, what else you got?

This could last a while.


I agree, hopefully this ends before the seasons starts.

[Fabbs]

anyone got the link to Poop saying Jefferson was SJax without the drama?

Finleyavich, Bonner and a 1st rounder for SJax would be heaven, but can't see Golden State falling for that crap.

Mason thrown in the mix could make it happen. Nellie no doubt saw Masons demonstrated potential before Dumbassovich forced Mason to the point guard.

[timaios]

anyone got the link to Poop saying Jefferson was SJax without the drama?

http://www.nba.com/spurs/features/090825_pop.html

[Fabbs]

Is it in the audio? ^^^ because nothing in print.

My d/L is superslow,

[DPG21920]

Spurs have just as many assets as Dallas if it is true that GS is looking for cap relief. It will be a matter of who is interested. Unless GS can get Dallas to take additional players (Maggette...).

[timaios]

Is it in the audio? ^^^ because nothing in print.

My d/L is superslow,

Yes. The file is 60 Mb. Here is the direct link. You can download it if your connection is too slow. That's a great Pop interview.

http://nba.cdn.turner.com/nba/big/teams/spurs/2009/08/25/090825_pop.wmv.spurs_nba_576x324.flv

[FkLA]

Paying something like 7.7 mill for a player who averaged 20-6-5 is a horrible contract? Nevermind the fact that he knows our Big 3 and our system fairly well, has been proven to perform in the postseason, and can plays solid D.

I dont understand this bad contract talk at all. I mean fuck unproven guys like Gortat got the MLE (like 6 mill per yr), Varejao got a huge 8 mill per year deal, Villanueva like 10 mill per year. Guys of similar skillset to Jax like our beloved Jefferson or Rashard Lewis have max deals and make twice what he makes. So if anything Jax is underpaid, given his production he is a great value for 7.7 mill. And he is at the peak of his career, he is in his prime...yea he's 31 and will likely have declined by 35 when his contract ends but if worst comes to worst we can use his expiring contract as a trading chip. We need to go balls out while we still have Tim, fuck long-term consequences our time to win is now. If you can get him with a combination of Mason/Bonner/Finley/Williams you fucking do it, no ands ifs or buts about it. This is a no brainer.

[DPG21920]

It is not really a bad contract in general, but from the Spurs perspective it is. The only bad part of the contract at all is the length. He will be around 35 and making 10M.

[FkLA]

I understand that concern, but at the same time he's playing great right now and looks physically fine...even in the worst case-scenario I still see him as having 2-3 yrs of good production left. If by his last yr he is worthless which I doubt we could always use him as a trading chip, 10 mill expiring is a valuable asset in this league. The way I see it we need to capitalize on Duncan's last years...if overpaying him in the 4th yr is what it takes to win an extra two or three titles than I do it in a heartbeat. This is a no brainer.

[DPG21920]

Yes, but there are other factors:

1) This effects re signing Ginobili. It would cost a lot of money. If Gino has a great year, he will command a decent amount

2) It might not be as easy to move Jackson as you make it out to be. No one knows what the new CBA agreement will look like. It is risky taking on long-term contracts. Also, it could mean the Spurs have to package talent in order to get rid of Jackson. Like having to give up Scola to get rid of Butler. Would giving up Hill or Tiago or Blair be worth it if they turn out well?

3) It could drastically effect the rebuilding efforts after Tim. The Spurs right now seem set up to not have a massive drop off even after Tim. This could mean a few extra down years and loss of money.

[FkLA]

1.Duncan is taking a paycut next yr, and Manu is extremely loyal. Call me an optimist but I just dont see Manu leaving us.

2.10 mill expiring is a valuable asset regardless of the CBA which might change but not drastically to the point where it will change this, there will always be teams that are re-building willing to take on Jax for a season or for half a season in order to have the cap room by season's end. And I dont think we will have to give up anything to move him, Butler was not an expiring contract therefore it did not hold the value Jax's will have. Butler was more of a burden than anything, Jax's big expiring will actually be an asset.

[Admidave50]

SJax back in SA town would be great, just need to see if GS is offered a better package!

[greensborohill]

Do you guys have a 4 million dollar contract that can be bought out for 1 million dollars? Simple question. Then you don't have anything better than what Dallas can offer.

You guys are lacking in the reading comprehension department.

[greensborohill]

Nellie and Pop's relationship >>>>>> Nellie and Cuban's relationship. I think the last thing he wants to do is help that douche out.


How about Nellie & Donnie's relationship. How good is that relationship?

[antimvp]

spurs have more to offer

mason, finley and bonner have expiring contracts don't they......I know fin and bonner do.

anyway..........I think we have the inside track to sjax.

[Gervin44Silas13]

A trade for Jax for Srub players!!!!!
He knows Pop's system
...and that's a plus!!!

MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!!

[greensborohill]

spurs have more to offer

mason, finley and bonner have expiring contracts don't they......I know fin and bonner do.

anyway..........I think we have the inside track to sjax.


Again,

Do you have a 4 million dollar contract that can be bought out for 1 million dollars? Giving the Warriors an instant 3 million dollar savings? R U guys that fvcking dumb around here or just blind?

[coyotes_geek]

The mavs can have him. Let them keep trying to learn the hard way that the fantasy basketball approach won't win you a title.

[Mel_13]

Again,

Do you have a 4 million dollar contract that can be bought out for 1 million dollars? Giving the Warriors an instant 3 million dollar savings? R U guys that fvcking dumb around here or just blind?

First, the buyout on Buckner's contract is 2.1M, so the savings is slightly less than 2M. Also, he cannot be traded in a deal for Jackson before Sep 9th.

Second, GS is well under the lux tax line so small savings this year are not nearly as important as the 28M in obligations beyond this season that they would save by trading Jackson for expiring deals. Both teams can offer packages to save the full 28M that he is owed for the three seasons beyond this one.

Third, compare packages that include Mason from the Spurs and Buckner from the Mavs. Assume that the rest of packages from both teams are equal. GS would then be choosing between paying Mason 3.8M this year to play for them or paying Buckner 2.1M to go away. I think it is just as likely that would rather pay the extra 1.7M and have Mason in a contract year.

Dallas, however, would have a huge advantage if GS wants to expand the deal to dump Ellis' contract. Dallas has the expiring deals of Howard and Dampier to include in such a deal. The Spurs would have to include Manu and that would kill any possible deal with the Spurs.

[Bruno]

Again,

Do you have a 4 million dollar contract that can be bought out for 1 million dollars? Giving the Warriors an instant 3 million dollar savings? R U guys that fvcking dumb around here or just blind?

Mavs don't have that. Buckner's contract can be bought out for $2.1M.

Now, I highly doubt there will have a bidding war between team for SJax. He is a 31 years old player with tons of red flags and a $35.5M contract. With the current economical situations, Warriors will be happy to dump him for expiring contracts.

If Mavs want him, they will get him. However, I quite doubt they want him. Mavs don't really need him and last time he played for Carlisle, it was quite a disaster.

[SpurNation]

Exactly. Manu has been too much of a risk these past 2 yrs. If he does this injury routine again this year we're all going to hate ourselves.

This would be the main reason I try to make this deal happen. Aside from Jackson's somewhat inflated contract...it's about the same as Manu's contract anyway.

If Manu comes up injured again this year...you can bet his contract comes off the books the following year because I doubt the Spurs would have interest in resigning Ginobili if that happens.

[coyotes_geek]

Just because I got curious.......

Michael Finley's playoff career as a Spur versus Stephen Jackson's entire playoff career. Not a whole lot of difference between the two.

Games: Finley - 55, Jackson - 54
Points per 30 minutes: Jax - 12.4, Fin - 10.4
FG%: Fin - 42.7%, Jax - 39.4%
3FG%: Fin - 40.2%, Jax - 32.8%
Rebounds per 30min: Jax - 3.3, Fin - 3.1
Assists per 30min: Jax - 2.4, Fin - 1.3
Turnovers per 30min: Fin - 0.6, Jax - 2.4
Steals/30min: Jax - 1.3, Fin - 0.5
Blocks/30min: Jax - 0.4, Fin - 0.2

[coyotes_geek]

Except Michael Finley is in his last 1-2 year(s) in the league now.

So? He's gone after this year. He might even be gone before this year is over.

[mountainballer]

However, I quite doubt they want him. Mavs don't really need him and last time he played for Carlisle, it was quite a disaster.

right, like most I also forgot about that point. Sjax was one of the major participates to destroy the best team Carlisle had ever assembled.

[Duncanoypi]

From Dallas Morning News:


Mavericks beat writer Tim MacMahon says the odds of Stephen Jackson being traded to Dallas are "closer to none than slim, even in a straight salary dump."
The Mavericks are over the dollar-for-dollar luxury tax and would essentially be paying $70 million over four years for Jackson, too rich even for owner Mark Cuban. The Mavs are also committed to the combination of Shawn Marion and Josh Howard, which leaves precious little playing time for someone like Jackson.

[mountainballer]

Just because I got curious.......

Michael Finley's playoff career as a Spur versus Stephen Jackson's entire playoff career. Not a whole lot of difference between the two.

Games: Finley - 55, Jackson - 54
Points per 30 minutes: Jax - 12.4, Fin - 10.4
FG%: Fin - 42.7%, Jax - 39.4%
3FG%: Fin - 40.2%, Jax - 32.8%
Rebounds per 30min: Jax - 3.3, Fin - 3.1
Assists per 30min: Jax - 2.4, Fin - 1.3
Turnovers per 30min: Fin - 0.6, Jax - 2.4
Steals/30min: Jax - 1.3, Fin - 0.5
Blocks/30min: Jax - 0.4, Fin - 0.2

wow, great work and quite disabusing.
the addition of Sjax to the current roster wouldn't really improve the overall quality of the team. if the Spurs wanted to improve the wing rotation, they need to add a permium perimeter stopper and not a volume scorer like Sjax.

[coyotes_geek]

Either you're making up things or you've been under a rock the last few years. You've don't recall the talk of having SJax DPOY in 07-08? Never recalled the Indiana defense that was largely anchored by he and Artest? Heck. you never recalled when he was playing here and shut down Dirk? (also done at GSW)

Please. He is the best damn option on the table right now for a perimeter defender.

If there actually was a conversation about Jax being the DPOY in 07-08 it must have been a pretty short one considering he didn't even get a single vote for 1st or 2nd all defensive team. No doubt, he's a better defender than Finley, but it is worth it considering all the other things (contract, needs touches, prone to technicals) that come with him? If the Spurs really need a defensive stopper, let's just bring Bruce back sometime around February.

[mountainballer]

Either you're making up things or you've been under a rock the last few years. You've don't recall the talk of having SJax DPOY in 07-08? Never recalled the Indiana defense that was largely anchored by he and Artest? Heck. you never recalled when he was playing here and shut down Dirk? (also done at GSW)

Please. He is the best damn option on the table right now for a perimeter defender.

please read some of my previous posts before you talk trash to me.
I know that Sjax can play quality defense, what I stated was, that he will never play the part of a pure defensive role player, but that's what this wing rotation would need. Sjax has never been a defensive workhorse. he plays some good defense and the next 3 games he's not interested.
and DPOY????? don't know who talked about this, but please let's not start to overrate his defense just to create some arguments to bring in Sjax.

[coyotes_geek]

Haha :lol "Please read the previous posts." These have been posted before

Espn.com truehoops?
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-28-337/Stephen-Jackson-s-Special-Sauce--Defense.html?username=truehoop&archiveId=28&bId=0&entryId=337&sort=oldest

Bay area press
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2007/11/30/stephen-jackson-budding-nba-defensive-player-of-the-year/

So that's one Warriors beatwriter saying 8 games into the 07-08 season that Jackson should get DPOY consideration, and one ESPN article referencing the blog written by the one Warriors beatwriter. Hardly a convincing arguement that he was a legitimate DPOY candidate.

[Mel_13]

Haha :lol "Please read the previous posts." These have been posted before

Espn.com truehoops?
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-28-337/Stephen-Jackson-s-Special-Sauce--Defense.html?username=truehoop&archiveId=28&bId=0&entryId=337&sort=oldest

Bay area press
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2007/11/30/stephen-jackson-budding-nba-defensive-player-of-the-year/

You do realize that your first link is a blog that merely quotes a portion of your second link. So all you have is a Warriors beat writer suggesting Jackson as a potential DPOY candidate after he played his first eight games of 2007-2008 season.

That's the extent of the 'talk' you have mentioned. One early season article by a team beat writer.

edit: coyotes_geek types faster:lol

[Agloco]

Actually, its quotes a portion and aids in the discussion as well. Those are 2 articles I found instantly, it's rather hard to find with all current news of his desire to leave popping up a priori. I was in the bay area during the time, and that was all what the GS related media was talking about.

Point is, many individuals recognized his ability to be a "stopper"

:lol

Possibly an adequate defender in a team concept defense perhaps. Not a stopper in any context.

I think if he concentrated on it he could be better, perhaps even spoken of as a top tier defender along the likes of Eric Snow or Shane Battier. When you say stopper though, I think of Jordan, Pippen, etc.....

[Mel_13]

Actually, its quotes a portion and aids in the discussion as well. Those are 2 articles I found instantly, it's rather hard to find with all current news of his desire to leave popping up a priori. I was in the bay area during the time, and that was all what the GS related media was talking about.

Point is, many individuals recognized his ability to be a "stopper"

:lol

When you add DPOY or "defensive player of the year" to his name in a google search, those are the only two articles from recognizable sources.



Interesting that the beat writer's enthusiasm for SJax has lessened over the last two years:

Robert Rowell played it so scared by handing SJax a ridiculous three-year, $28.6M (max possible for SJax) in the months after Baron exited last summer.

For all his supposed financial wisdom–yeah, right!–Rowell was SCARED that SJax would be a problem, scared that SJax might talk about how dumb the organization is, scared that there wouldn’t be a recognizable face to market and to buddy-up to RR when RR felt even more scared of all things.

Remember, SJax still had TWO YEARS left on his deal when Rowell handed the three-year extension. SJax still has one year left on the OLD DEAL, before the extension kicks in for the 2010-’11 through 2012-’13 seasons.

Unbelievably stupid deal. One of the stupidest moves of Rowell’s tenure, and that’s encompasses a lot of stupidity. And fear.

I like Jackson. When he’s healthy (which is less and less), he’s the one Warriors player who can be counted on to play tough defense and to make the kind of plays necessary in a Scatter Ball Offense.

But no, Jackson is not very trade-able. He said in the interview he wanted to go to Cleveland, first choice, or anywhere in Texas (his home state) or maybe to the Knicks to join his buddy Harrington.

Good teams avoid situations precisely like the Warriors got themselves into with SJax–productive, aging player, signed at the wrong time for too much money and WAY TOO LONG. So why would any team want to trade for that situation?

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2009/08/29/report-stephen-jackson-wants-divorce-from-warriors-but-hell-keep-rowells-gift/

[Agloco]

Dirk still has nightmares of his 2007 encounter. I don't know, maybe God just made him miss those shots.

We all have that one, otherwise average person who just gives us all we can handle. Think about any competition you've been involved in not just hoops.

[ducks]

Just because I got curious.......

Michael Finley's playoff career as a Spur versus Stephen Jackson's entire playoff career. Not a whole lot of difference between the two.

Games: Finley - 55, Jackson - 54
Points per 30 minutes: Jax - 12.4, Fin - 10.4
FG%: Fin - 42.7%, Jax - 39.4%
3FG%: Fin - 40.2%, Jax - 32.8%
Rebounds per 30min: Jax - 3.3, Fin - 3.1
Assists per 30min: Jax - 2.4, Fin - 1.3
Turnovers per 30min: Fin - 0.6, Jax - 2.4
Steals/30min: Jax - 1.3, Fin - 0.5
Blocks/30min: Jax - 0.4, Fin - 0.2

factor his 27% shooting last playoffs he was in
do you really want to put up with him?

oh and the points he scored against mavs in playoffs was because they were playing at a very high pace
something the spurs do not do

[Muser]

lol pinked.

[FkLA]

All these morons talking about what a horrible contract he has need to stfu, compare his contract to other player and u will notice that he is a great value for the production he has had over the last few yrs. Players of similar skillset like Rashard Lewis or our beloved Richard Jefferson have max or close to max deals and make twice as much as S-Jax.

Contrary to popular belief Jax's contract is actually a pretty decent one overall, and a great one for the first two yrs of it. 7.7 mill this upcoming yr for a player who averaged 20-6-5 is great great value. The only concern is the 4th yr of his deal, he will be 35 and may have declined by than...but his expiring contract could always be used as a trade asset or we could just let it run and get some cap-room by season's end. If overpaying him in the final fourth yr is what it takes to win an extra two or three titles than u fucking do it, our time to win is now. We'll worry about long-term consequences later.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I like SJax against bigger players like Nowitzki, I love his tenacity and fearlessness. I don't think the Spurs will be willing to take that contract on at this point...and no, I don't think he's overpaid or anything, his contract fits his contribution I believe.

[DPG21920]

His contract fits his contribution, but will it fit his contribution to the Spurs?

[StoneBuddha]

I don't think his contract numbers will match his production on the court except against a handful of opponents where he eliminates one of those pesky mismatches (Dallas, LA). And even then, it's more defensive production. For whatever reason, I feel much more comfortable with Jackson matching up against Kobe/Dirk than RJ.

That's the rub. Do you pay that much in luxury tax for this narrow (but potentially series deciding) skill set?

[FkLA]

For the millionth time, quit being so damn misinformed...the Spurs will take in his contract but they will also hypothetically speaking unload Bonners, Finleys, and Masons which add up to roughly about the same. If anything the luxury will increase by a few hundred thousand dollars. Nothing astronomical or scary.

And actually 7.6 mill this upcoming yr for a 20-6-5 guys is not equal to his contribution. It is actually UNDERPAID, which is why Ive been saying his contract for the first few yrs is actually great great value. The only possible risk I see is the 4th yr. Look at the type of deals average or below average players got this summer, in a damn recession nontheless. Also look at at guys of similar skillset and numbers like Richard Jefferson, Rashard Lewis, Joe Johnson, etc. S-Jax deserves his 7.6 mill and than some, his numbers should decrease if he were to join a much more stacked Spurs team but not to the point where he wouldnt be earning his money. 7.6 mill is nothing compared to how grossly overpaid most of the players are around the league and unless Jax's production plummetted of the face of the Earth he'll still be earning his money and will still likely be underpaid.

[DPG21920]

He won't average those numbers on the Spurs and he was in a fast paced system that inflated them a bit.

But he would certainly help against the Lakers and that is a bonus.

[FkLA]

Noone is saying he will, just like Jefferson wont be a 20 ppg scorer...yet he makes twice as much as Jax. I just find it completely idiotic for some of u to act like 7.7 is something astronomical and that Jax is overpaid? That shit is nothing compared to what scrubs get this days. Varejao got a deal for more than that per yr, as did Villanueva, scrubs like Powell and Gortat will make slightly less since they got the full MLE (roughly around 6 mill). This was all during a recession might I add, those numbers couldve been even more disgusting if the economy wasnt so bad. You also have guys like Joe Johnson, Rashard Lewis, Richard Jefferson...similar players with similar numbers making upwards of 15 mill/yr.

So now u tell me how exactly is Jax overpaid? If anything he is grossly underpaid, and even if his numbers go down here...which they undoubtedly would he would likely still be underpaid or at the very least paid what he deserves.

[coyotes_geek]

For the millionth time, quit being so damn misinformed...the Spurs will take in his contract but they will also hypothetically speaking unload Bonners, Finleys, and Masons which add up to roughly about the same. If anything the luxury will increase by a few hundred thousand dollars. Nothing astronomical or scary.

And actually 7.6 mill this upcoming yr for a 20-6-5 guys is not equal to his contribution. It is actually UNDERPAID, which is why Ive been saying his contract for the first few yrs is actually great great value. The only possible risk I see is the 4th yr. Look at the type of deals average or below average players got this summer, in a damn recession nontheless. Also look at at guys of similar skillset and numbers like Richard Jefferson, Rashard Lewis, Joe Johnson, etc. S-Jax deserves his 7.6 mill and than some, his numbers should decrease if he were to join a much more stacked Spurs team but not to the point where he wouldnt be earning his money. 7.6 mill is nothing compared to how grossly overpaid most of the players are around the league and unless Jax's production plummetted of the face of the Earth he'll still be earning his money and will still likely be underpaid.

The Spurs aren't going to take on that contract. Period. End of story. Not with 4 guys already locked up on huge contracts. If the Jefferson deal had never happened, then it's a different conversation. But Jefferson is here. And yes, he'll be overpaid for the contribution he'll give. One thing to take on one of those guys who's only got 2 years on a deal. Quite another to tack on another player with 4 years on top of that.

[StoneBuddha]

Well, I agree with you that next year it can be salary neutral, but every year after that, it will cost the team a ton of money unless you are assuming they do not resign Manu.

I always thought the savings from those expiring contracts were going to be earmarked for Manu / Splittler.

Personally, I hope they can work out the trade for Jackson. You've gone this far, go ahead and go for broke. Still, I think you are being a little dismissive about the salary concerns and flexibility moving forward.

[FkLA]

Well, I agree with you that next year it can be salary neutral, but every year after that, it will cost the team a ton of money unless you are assuming they do not resign Manu.

I always thought the savings from those expiring contracts were going to be earmarked for Manu / Splittler.

Personally, I hope they can work out the trade for Jackson. You've gone this far, go ahead and go for broke. Still, I think you are being a little dismissive about the salary concerns and flexibility moving forward.

I understand the concerns about the 4th yr, but right now Jax is in his prime and in great physical shape...I think its fairly reasonable to assume that he has atleast 3 good yrs left. The 4th yr might be a burden but if worse comes to worse u deal him, alot of teams will want 10 mill expiring. If a bad fourth yr is what it takes to add another two or three trophies u do it.

Also people are completely ignoring the fact that atleast for the first two yrs, possibly even the third Jax's contract will be great value. I mean honestly Ive already brought up players with similar skillset and numbers that make twice as much as him. Jax is underpaid given the numbers he produces. No doubt his numbers will go down if he comes here but so will RJs and he's getting 15 mill this upcoming season.

[completely deck]

I understand the concerns about the 4th yr, but right now Jax is in his prime and in great physical shape...I think its fairly reasonable to assume that he has atleast 3 good yrs left. The 4th yr might be a burden but if worse comes to worse u deal him, alot of teams will want 10 mill expiring. If a bad fourth yr is what it takes to add another two or three trophies u do it.

Also people are completely ignoring the fact that atleast for the first two yrs, possibly even the third Jax's contract will be great value. I mean honestly Ive already brought up players with similar skillset and numbers that make twice as much as him. Jax is underpaid given the numbers he produces. No doubt his numbers will go down if he comes here but so will RJs and he's getting 15 mill this upcoming season.

You don't get it. You're arguing for nothing.. The Spurs will not sign him.

[The Truth #6]

They just signed Richard Jefferson this Summer. WHY would they spend valuable resources on getting a similar caliber player for the exact same position? That makes no sense.

Also, there's no way the FO is going to start messing with chemistry before it even has had time to come together in the beginning of the season.

No, they are going to do what they always do which is see how things go during the first half of the season and guage the progress/regress of certain players, especially ones on the last year of their contract, and then decide if they need to make a deal.

At that point if they feel they want to move Finley, Mason, and Bonner then they might be able to steal a player away. I can't see that happening now.

Another point - people assume that Dallas would never trade for Sjax. I see it the opposite. I think Dallas would the most likely trade target. Yeah, Nelson and Cuban don't get along, however, Nelson's son Donnie is the manager of the Mavericks. Are we to assume that Don Sr. doesn't talk with Don Jr.? That's ridiculous.

Sjax is the type of player Cuban has always gone after - brash scorers. Also Dallas has plenty of assets to work with. Cuban often makes weird moves. Cuban often spends way too much money. All these factors make Dallas a much more likely candidate than us. Not to mention, Sjax has been a Mavs killer and I could imagine he'd like to get him to play on his side.

Who knows how any of this will work out but I wouldn't expect Sjax on the Spurs ever again. Would I love for it to happen? Sure, he was an exciting player. But the chances are very low.

Hey, it's Summer. There's not much to talk about. I get it.

[DPG21920]

I think that because they might have some interest, but they know Jax won't go to other contenders or "cusp contenders", they are fine without him.

[HarlemHeat37]

Wait and see is probably the best overall option..we'll see what we have on the team, since we have plenty of ?s, and we have expirings at the deadline..if a move needs to be made, it will be..

[ducks]

My sources on this are not front office, so nothing is official about Spurs lacking interest, but I just got the feeling that Pop is ready with what he has now. I think he likes Roger Mason too much to trade him away.

if mason sucked again in postseason
next offseason mason maybe on the block

[DesignatedT]

if mason sucked again in postseason
next offseason mason maybe on the block

wont have to bother.. he will be an FA anyway. just let him walk

[holcs50]

My sources on this are not front office, so nothing is official about Spurs lacking interest, but I just got the feeling that Pop is ready with what he has now. I think he likes Roger Mason too much to trade him away.


this may be true, but I have to ask WHY? Mason is actually not that good at all. Yea yea people can say the move to PG fucked him up, and I agree but when it comes down to it the guy is slow, one-dimensional, a bad defender, must i go on? All i have to say is mason-playoffs. Was he in a spurs uniform last playoffs? Hmm, might as well of played 4v5 because he was like a ghost out there. If Pop has some positive feelings towards mase, i hope he gets over them quickly and realize jax is 5000x better than mase. That would be just sad if the reason it doesn't happen is pop likes mase...pfft

[TDMVPDPOY]

i got a feeling jax might be better than ginobli this season...

[holcs50]

i got a feeling jax might be better than ginobli this season...

Oh no doubt. Think manu will play pretty good, but i think jax has a better season in store. My dream-manu and jax both play great for the spurs. My nightmare-Manu gets reinjured, jax goes to the mavs/cavs and plays amazing and it comes back to haunt us. I rooting for my dream, ha

[sa_kid20]

this may be true, but I have to ask WHY? Mason is actually not that good at all. Yea yea people can say the move to PG fucked him up, and I agree but when it comes down to it the guy is slow, one-dimensional, a bad defender, must i go on? All i have to say is mason-playoffs. Was he in a spurs uniform last playoffs? Hmm, might as well of played 4v5 because he was like a ghost out there. If Pop has some positive feelings towards mase, i hope he gets over them quickly and realize jax is 5000x better than mase. That would be just sad if the reason it doesn't happen is pop likes mase...pfft

Oh come on man, everybody besides Tim and Tony sucked in that Dallas series. You can't just blame it all on Roger like that. I just think it's funny how you say he's slow, one-dimensional, and bad defender like he's the #1 option on the team or something. He's a freakin role player! I don't know why some people think you need 12 all-stars on a team for them to be good :lol. Roger is a knock down catch and shoot shooter and thats all he's gonna need to be with The Big 3 and now RJ ready to go next season. Last year he was our 3rd and even 2nd best scorer at times and this season he'll be our 5th. That just shows how much better we'll be next season and I don't know how you could complain about that to be honest.

[holcs50]

Oh come on man, everybody besides Tim and Tony sucked in that Dallas series. You can't just blame it all on Roger like that. I just think it's funny how you say he's slow, one-dimensional, and bad defender like he's the #1 option on the team or something. He's a freakin role player! I don't know why some people think you need 12 all-stars on a team for them to be good :lol. Roger is a knock down catch and shoot shooter and thats all he's gonna need to be with The Big 3 and now RJ ready to go next season. Last year he was our 3rd and even 2nd best scorer at times and this season he'll be our 5th. That just shows how much better we'll be next season and I don't know how you could complain about that to be honest.

point taken sa. Yea i admit i might be too hard on mase sometimes, but IMO it still comes down to the team we had for the playoffs last year. Your right it was completely only tony and tim. Even as a role player he should've been able to do something-and he folded hard. I'm confident in the team we have now and love what has happened in the off-season....

But this has come up, not our choosing but its there, and you have to put things into perspective. Holt willing to pay lux tax till TDs contract is up----yep. Spurs have expiring contracts to be traded----yep. SJax is so much better than mase and bonner------yep.

We all are stoked at what already has happened this off-season, i mean it's the first off-season spurs fans can really get excited for in a long time...but call me/some fans greedy when a situation comes up as Sjax has it just makes perfect sense....spurs are dumb if they don't try...really dumb.

[sa_kid20]

point taken sa. Yea i admit i might be too hard on mase sometimes, but IMO it still comes down to the team we had for the playoffs last year. Your right it was completely only tony and tim. Even as a role player he should've been able to do something-and he folded hard. I'm confident in the team we have now and love what has happened in the off-season....

But this has come up, not our choosing but its there, and you have to put things into perspective. Holt willing to pay lux tax till TDs contract is up----yep. Spurs have expiring contracts to be traded----yep. SJax is so much better than mase and bonner------yep.

We all are stoked at what already has happened this off-season, i mean it's the first off-season spurs fans can really get excited for in a long time...but call me/some fans greedy when a situation comes up as Sjax has it just makes perfect sense....spurs are dumb if they don't try...really dumb.


Well you're right that Holt seems willing to go into the lux tax as he's already proven and yes Jax is a better player than Roger, but i just don't think it makes sense to go after him. Why would the Spurs take even more of a lux tax hit to bring in another scorer when we already have the best scoring team we've had in a really long time? If we would have never gotten RJ I think this would be something to seriously consider but thats not the case. Don't get me wrong, I love Jax and i wish he would have never left but in this case i just don't think it's a good fit. That's just me though.

[Chieflion]

Heard nothing from the Warriors management yet. I doubt they would trade S-Jax.

[Mel_13]

Heard nothing from the Warriors management yet. I doubt they would trade S-Jax.

The following statement was released today by Golden State Warriors General Manager Larry Riley:


“Stephen Jackson has been a true professional since arriving here three seasons ago, and our expectations of him have not changed despite his recent comments. He’s been one of our most consistent and productive players during that time. We expect that same display of professionalism as we begin to prepare for training camp and the start of the upcoming regular season.”


“As far as his remarks on playing for a championship…that’s not the first time we’ve heard it because that’s the goal that he sets for himself and his teammates every season. That’s the type of confidence that he exudes as a player and the reason that he has endeared himself to our fans. That’s who Stephen Jackson is.”


“We have always understood his desire to contend with the NBA’s best; that’s an aspiration that is shared by our entire organization. We will continue in our quest to achieve that goal, and to be aggressive in pursuit of those results.”

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2009/08/31/nba-source-chilly-market-for-stephen-jackson-especially-with-new-emphasis-on-personal-conduct/

[benefactor]

It sounds like GS is not open to anything right now...but as we get into the season you can certainly file this one right beside Rip Hamilton as a potential trade target if Manu goes down or if Mason is not looking up to the task.

[in2deep]

RJ, Mason, Manu = no need for Jax and his obese contract

[bigfan]

Jax would just be a pain in the ass anyway, no thanks

[gospursgojas]

Warriors' Stephen Jackson not likely moving to Mavericks
By Mark Miller

Yesterday it seemed like there was some momentum toward the Golden State Warriors sending the disgruntled Stephen Jackson(notes) to the Dallas Mavericks in an attempt at a salary dump or at least in exchange for the big contract of Jason Terry(notes).

But now it's looking like there is no way Jackson will end up in Dallas this season, according to the Dallas Morning News. The Mavs are apparently over the luxury tax already and Jackson would end up costing them $70 million over four years. Even owner Mark Cuban has his limits.

But it's not just the massive dollar amount that is keeping the team from going after Jackson. Dallas apparently doesn't want Jackson to horn in on any Shawn Marion(notes)/Josh Howard playing time.

So Jackson will just have to remain disgruntled just like so many great Warriors before him.

Source: Dallas Morning News

[silverblackfan]

Nice to know there are some monetary limits in Dallas.

[ChumpDumper]

There's no real reason for the Warriors to trade Jack now, but it would be nice just to kill the speculation.

[Sdayi135]

there's no real reason for the warriors to trade jack now, but it would be nice just to kill the speculation.

+1

[superbigtime]

It sounds like GS is not open to anything right now...but as we get into the season you can certainly file this one right beside Rip Hamilton as a potential trade target if Manu goes down or if Mason is not looking up to the task.

+1

Sounds like GS is reeling him in a little.

[Bruno]

Well, it sounds more like no teams are interested in SJax and his ugly contract. Warriors will have hard time to find a taker for him.

[Spursfan 87]

I dont see what is the problem with Jax's contract. Duncan is going to take less money (about 4M) next year, with that money the spurs can resign manu. Assuming that they trade Mason and Bonner, the spurs still have Theo, finley and M.Williams coming off the books next year, with that money they can bring Tiago next year, and resign hill and Ian.

[EricB]

Trading for SJax is a no brainer.

If all it takes is a combo of Bonner, Mason, and Finley then you send the limo for those three and get the mariachis read for Jax on the other plane.

[ThaiFanofSpurs]

I love all the Spurs as a team and the organization. I would get sad if some of the role players (Mason, Fin, and Bonner in this case) get traded for SJax. But I still want to do it if it improves the team.

I think the Lakers and Mavs [the (only) two teams that always give us match up problem in the playoffs] will not be happy if it ends up that way.

[kobyz]

we need to trade Mason and Bonner for him, it's a great opportunity. even with his long contract it will be worth this, Holt decide that he pay for a championship so it will be smart to pay a little more and to get this piece. even though we improve alot this summer there is feeling that we need another piece to improve our chances for the title because others teams that was contenders last year have improve alot and also there is the thing with Manu injury.
i also think that Jax contract it's not alot overpaid, he could give good value for his contract in the next 3-4 years. i think after next year we could keep Manu for alot less money and our salary will not increase by much even with Jax.
in our wing position we have weak players like Finley, Mason and some youngsters behind the starters Manu and RJ, add to it the problem with Manu injury and you get a need for another good wing player - need for Jax, and also Jax can be great 4 for small ball.
if we want a championship it's important to get Jax!!!

[duncan228]

Didn't see this, apologies if I missed it.

Jack was never coming back (http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/buckharvey/2009/08/jack-was-never-coming-back.html)
By Buck Harvey

Stephen Jackson says he has requested a trade. "I want to be in a situation where I can continually be in the playoffs and get another ring," he said.

Years ago, in San Antonio, he was in that situation.

Jackson instead chose to pursue money, and there's nothing wrong with that. That's his business.

The years passed. The Spurs won two more rings without Jackson, and this spring they began to look at ways to win another.

Why not trade for Jackson?

The same issue got in the way.

There were other issues. For one, there were no signs the Warriors were looking to trade Jackson. It's also unlikely the Warriors would have wanted the package of players who Milwaukee took in exchange for Richard Jefferson.

Another issue is Jack. Last week, when Gregg Popovich talked with the media, he said Jefferson was like Jackson "without the drama."

Popovich laughed and said he loved the guy. Still, Popovich knows well the moody risk-reward package.

The risk was underlined even when Jackson talked about wanting to leave Golden State. Then he said he would prefer to play for any of the Texas teams, as well as Cleveland, and that makes sense. Mike Brown was his mentor with the Spurs.

But then Jackson also listed the Knicks as an option. This move is to win a title, right?

Still, the reward part of the package was clearly there in 2003, when Jackson seemingly ended every playoff series with a clutch 3-pointer. He often raises his game for the big moment, and Jefferson doesn't have the same reputation. Jackson can also play defense, and he always got along with Tim Duncan. At 31, he averaged a career high 20.7 points a game last season.

But earlier in the summer, when the Spurs were throwing around ideas, no one on staff saw Jackson as a serious option. A primary reason was money.

The same Jackson who now wants to leave Golden State to play for a winner wanted another contract with the Warriors not long ago. Again, this is part of the Jackson personality. The Warriors obliged, signing Jackson to a three-year extension just last November.

Money isn't the problem next season. Jackson will earn about half as much as Jefferson will.

Instead, it's the length of the contract. His deal doesn't expire until 2013, and no Spur -- not Duncan, not Tony Parker -- is on the books that long.

[mountainballer]

it really seems to be hard to understand for many members:
there is no indication Spurs could trade for Sjax. absolutely not.
that's not without a reason: Spurs just don't need him.
he would not make this team better!
this team needs some role players for defined roles (like what Bruce played)
just looking at Sjax numbers (for Nelson) doesn't help. he won't get the shots and touches and role he has with the Warriors. period.
if people look at his numbers, they should look at the right numbers:
for example scoring efficiency or better (and easier to read) points per shot!
what we learn there: Sjax just isn't an efficient scorer. better: Sjax is a pretty inefficient scorer. in his best season, he scored 1.23 PPS.
(for comparison: in his "worst" season Manu scored 1.25PPS. usually Manu scored between 1.40 and 1.50PPS)
RJ always was an efficient scorer. not as great as Manu, but decent. (worst season 1.25PPS, best season 1.51PPS). I'm sure this was a big reason for the Spurs to get him.

if Sjax would join this team, he would get the role Fin got 2005 and he would also very likely provide as much as help as Finley in his first season with the Spurs. with the one little difference: Finley delivered for 2.5 million per and Sjax costs 7.7 million.
there is a good chance that also in 3 years Sjax will provide as much help as Fin did last year. with the big difference: Fin still did it for 2.5 million but Sjax then would cost 10.

so, it's not a no brainer to get Sjax if it was possible.
it's a no brainer to pass on him.

[Bruno]

I still would not be shocked if the Spurs made a move on him, but of course the Spurs keep everything tight to the chest so it isn't clear if they have even called Golden State.


I would be shocked to learn that Spurs have called GS about Jackson.

The only way I could see Spurs being interested in SJax is if Manu or RJ has a very serious injury.

[ohmwrecker]

I hate Buck Harvey. The reason why Jackson named the Knicks as a trade possibility is because he standing next to his buddy Al Harrington at the time. He doesn't really want to go to the Knicks.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I don't think we need Jax to win a championship, I like what we've got on the books already, and after thinking about that contract and the effect it will have on our cap for years to come, it looks like a real millstone. If he was 28, fine, but he's 31, and sure to lose a step in a year or two.

I say go with what we've got, and because of that contract he's likely to be there at the deadline if we need a swingman.

[ducks]

I would be shocked to learn that Spurs have called GS about Jackson.

The only way I could see Spurs being interested in SJax is if Manu or RJ has a very serious injury.

and we know how injury prone manu is

[will_spurs]

The only way I could see Spurs being interested in SJax is if Manu or RJ has a very serious injury.

Bruno, I don't understand the "if" part of your statement. I'd say "when" is more like it.

[will_spurs]

He doesn't really want to go to the Knicks.

In one year the Knicks might have James under contract and everybody will want to go there. The 2009 Knicks might not be very attractive, but it's important to look at what lies ahead.

[benefactor]

it really seems to be hard to understand for many members:
there is no indication Spurs could trade for Sjax. absolutely not.
that's not without a reason: Spurs just don't need him.
he would not make this team better!

You can argue all you want that Jack's contract is too long and too much, but saying that subtracting Mason and adding Jack does not make us better is simply foolishness.

[coyotes_geek]

You can argue all you want that Jack's contract is too long and too much, but saying that subtracting Mason and adding Jack does not make us better is simply foolishness.

It's not foolish. It's debateable. Maybe Jackson would be a chemistry killer. Maybe he wouldn't. We don't know one way or the other.

[Muser]

Honestly I say go for it, after Duncan has gone we will be in rebuilding mode for quite a while anyway so if we can upgrade at any spot of the roster and we have the expendable players to acquire these upgrades then you must do it.

[HarlemHeat37]

There's nothing wrong with waiting until the deadline..who knows how our team will look by then, and who knows what kind of need we'll have to fill..

[benefactor]

It's not foolish. It's debateable. Maybe Jackson would be a chemistry killer. Maybe he wouldn't. We don't know one way or the other.
Chemistry? He has played in the system and with all of our Big 3.

[mountainballer]

You can argue all you want that Jack's contract is too long and too much, but saying that subtracting Mason and adding Jack does not make us better is simply foolishness.

I tried to give some reasons why. if they were just foolish, so be it, I can't do any better.
I never claimed that Sjax isn't a better player than either Mason, Bonner, Finley or maybe even all three together.
but still none on this board could answer me the very simplest question: what role would Sjax play with this Spurs core? (means alongside Tim, Tony, Manu and RJ)
define the role, describe what spot in the rotation he would take, guess how many shots he can take etc. then we can aregue. I tried to go tru this and at the end I realised that the addition of Sjax in the current situation won't make this team better. sorry.

[gospursgojas]

Buck Harvey is always wrong so....


:tu

[Mel_13]

Buck Harvey is always wrong so...

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/buckharvey/2009/06/for-bowen-its-a-one-way-ticket.html

[benefactor]

I tried to give some reasons why. if they were just foolish, so be it, I can't do any better.
I never claimed that Sjax isn't a better player than either Mason, Bonner, Finley or maybe even all three together.
but still none on this board could answer me the very simplest question: what role would Sjax play with this Spurs core? (means alongside Tim, Tony, Manu and RJ)
define the role, describe what spot in the rotation he would take, guess how many shots he can take etc. then we can aregue. I tried to go tru this and at the end I realised that the addition of Sjax in the current situation won't make this team better. sorry.
He would play a very big one. We will go ahead and make the assumption that because of his previous experience with the team and the system, he knows what is and is not expected of him.

The biggest thing that Jack can bring is that he can play both SG and SF...which gives us a lot of versatility with our lineups. If you start him at the 2 guard beside RJ we have another shooter/scorer to go with RJ and TP on the perimeter. As a matter of fact, it gives players at every single position that are a threat offensively. It would also give us two good defenders with size on the perimeter to throw at the other team's perimeter scorer. Once we bring Manu in off the bench, Jack can slide to SF and we lose very little defensively or offensively. He also gives us the ability to play small ball effectively if the situation calls for it...as he or RJ can slide to the 4 and Duncan can slide to the 5 with Parker and Manu at the guards. This would work out well against a team like the Mavs that are more likely to go small.

So IMHO...there is really only one decision to be made...and that is whether or not the FO feels like it is worth the kind of money they would have to pay to get him.

[mountainballer]

He would play a very big one. We will go ahead and make the assumption that because of his previous experience with the team and the system, he knows what is and is not expected of him.

The biggest thing that Jack can bring is that he can play both SG and SF...which gives us a lot of versatility with our lineups. If you start him at the 2 guard beside RJ we have another shooter/scorer to go with RJ and TP on the perimeter. As a matter of fact, it gives players at every single position that are a threat offensively. It would also give us two good defenders with size on the perimeter to throw at the other team's perimeter scorer. Once we bring Manu in off the bench, Jack can slide to SF and we lose very little defensively or offensively. He also gives us the ability to play small ball effectively if the situation calls for it...as he or RJ can slide to the 4 and Duncan can slide to the 5 with Parker and Manu at the guards. This would work out well against a team like the Mavs that are more likely to go small.

So IMHO...there is really only one decision to be made...and that is whether or not the FO feels like it is worth the kind of money they would have to pay to get him.

you got me totally wrong. I know what position he plays. and that he could play 2 or 3.
the question was, what role does he play?
how many minutes will he play?
how many shots does he take?
how will he be used, considering he isn't a efficient scorer?
if you would go into the details of the game, you would see, there just isn't room for Sjax.
or he is turned into a pure stopper, who takes 5-6 shots per game. (good look with explaining this to him).
there just are not enough possessions. and you don't give the less efficient scorer more shots than the more efficient one, just to keep him happy. the Spurs won't go over 85.
I guess we all agree that Tony needs to be the #1 option and also that Tim still is the #2.
(means 17-18 FG for Tony and 14-15 for Tim). Manu NEEDS to be the #3 option, he is the Spurs by far most efficient scorer. (12-13 FG). that#s about 45 for the big 3. any lower number will hurt the teams overall success. next is JR. he will play 35 minutes. and it would be absurd not to use him intensively on offense (12-14).
you can do the math? we are at 57-60
we still have Hill (who Pop said should play a bigger role next season) and Dice (who we will also need as an offensive option, especially to create room for Tim) and some more players.
THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH SHOTS LEFT FOR SJAX, who isn't efficient enough to take away shots from Tim, Tony, Manu and JR. give him the shots and the Spurs will lose more games.
integrating Sjax into this rotation does not make the Spurs significantly better, but more expensive and I really doubt that it doesn't hurt the chemistry, when you try to turn a well known headache into a defensive role player in the Bowen mold.
of course the Spurs could very well use an upgrade at the #3 spot in the wing rotation. but therefore you need the RIGHT player and not just a good player. SJAX is good, but at this time for this role not the right man. it's so simple.
the right man for this mix would (for example) be James Jones. or James Posey. or DeShawn Stevenson (if healthy again). or Battier (to mention the role model for the job)

[45 bank shot]

there's no way he's coming back

[DaBears]

One can always dream..

[benefactor]

you got me totally wrong. I know what position he plays. and that he could play 2 or 3.
the question was, what role does he play?
how many minutes will he play?
how many shots does he take?
how will he be used, considering he isn't a efficient scorer?
if you would go into the details of the game, you would see, there just isn't room for Sjax.
or he is turned into a pure stopper, who takes 5-6 shots per game. (good look with explaining this to him).
there just are not enough possessions. and you don't give the less efficient scorer more shots than the more efficient one, just to keep him happy. the Spurs won't go over 85.
I guess we all agree that Tony needs to be the #1 option and also that Tim still is the #2.
(means 17-18 FG for Tony and 14-15 for Tim). Manu NEEDS to be the #3 option, he is the Spurs by far most efficient scorer. (12-13 FG). that#s about 45 for the big 3. any lower number will hurt the teams overall success. next is JR. he will play 35 minutes. and it would be absurd not to use him intensively on offense (12-14).
you can do the math? we are at 57-60
we still have Hill (who Pop said should play a bigger role next season) and Dice (who we will also need as an offensive option, especially to create room for Tim) and some more players.
THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH SHOTS LEFT FOR SJAX, who isn't efficient enough to take away shots from Tim, Tony, Manu and JR. give him the shots and the Spurs will lose more games.
integrating Sjax into this rotation does not make the Spurs significantly better, but more expensive and I really doubt that it doesn't hurt the chemistry, when you try to turn a well known headache into a defensive role player in the Bowen mold.
of course the Spurs could very well use an upgrade at the #3 spot in the wing rotation. but therefore you need the RIGHT player and not just a good player. SJAX is good, but at this time for this role not the right man. it's so simple.
the right man for this mix would (for example) be James Jones. or James Posey. or DeShawn Stevenson (if healthy again). or Battier (to mention the role model for the job)
A couple of things here.

Jack is not going to be a primary option by any means. IMO, that is the reason why his efficiency numbers are not that great. He is not really good enough to be a primary option, yet over the past several seasons he has been one of the primary options in a jump shooting offense where taking bad shots is encouraged. Since Jack left the Spurs, he has averaged 1062 shot attempts per season. Hell, he only played 59 games last year and took nearly 1000 shots.

I don't think its a coincidence that the best shooting year of his career percentage-wise was in 2003 with the Spurs...when he only played 28mpg and took 800 shots. I think we will see two things that will improve his efficiency if he comes here...he will take better shots because he is no longer needed to carry the load and he will get better looks because most of the offense will be keyed on the players around him. Will he be a 50% FG guy? Probably not. But if he can hover around 45% that will be good enough. Furthermore, you say that Manu needs to be the #3 option when Manu is going to need to be limited more than ever during the regular season. The days of him playing 28mpg are long gone. Having another wing that is an offensive and defensive threat would be a nice luxury to have if the Spurs are looking to keep Manu closer to 20mpg...which they should be if they plan on having him healthy in the post season.

Jack is the type of player that doesn't need shots to be productive. He has great length for a wing and is very good at getting to the rim. And there is no debating what he can bring on the perimeter defensively. You seem to be looking for some sort of defined role for him when in reality he will play many different roles. He is not a limited player like Mason or Bowen that can only do one thing well.

Jack has said himself that he is now at a point in his career where he looking to win another title...and when you couple that with him saying that Tim Duncan is one of his favorite people then your argument about him being a headache and a chemistry holds very little water. He has played here with all of our main players and he knows what Pop expects of him. TBQH, the overall tone of you post just makes me think that you just don't like him and that is why you don't want him here.

[TMTTRIO]

The days of him playing 28mpg are long gone. Having another wing that is an offensive and defensive threat would be a nice luxury to have if the Spurs are looking to keep Manu closer to 20mpg...which they should be if they plan on having him healthy in the post season.


If he's healthy Manu's going to play more than just 20 minutes a game. I see him at 25-28 minutes a game and they maybe resting on a couple of back to back games.

[benefactor]

If he's healthy Manu's going to play more than just 20 minutes a game. I see him at 25-28 minutes a game and they maybe resting on a couple of back to back games.
He will not be around for the playoffs if he plays more than 25mpg. I'll call my shot on that one.

[benefactor]

Bump.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4504553

Do it.

[Taking it to the Hole]

He wants to play for a winner, but can we take on his salary? IMO, just giving away Finley&Bonner won't be enough. We need to offer either Hill or Mason to make it happen. Even if we could make the trade, I doubt Pop and the FO are going to want him back here.

[EricB]

I doubt Pop and the FO are going to want him back here.


What makes you think that?

[Taking it to the Hole]

What makes you think that?

Since basically they have Stephen Jackson w/o the baggage, aka Richard Jefferson.

[EricB]

Since basically they have Stephen Jackson w/o the baggage, aka Richard Jefferson.


Stephen Jackson and Richard Jefferson are completely different players....

[MaNu4Tres]

Starters

Tony Parker 33 MPG
Stephen Jackson 28 MPG
Richard Jefferson 31 MPG
Antonio McDyess 26 MPG
Tim Duncan 32 MPG

Bench

Manu Ginobili 28 MPG
DeJuan Blair 18 MPG
George Hill 16 MPG
Matt Bonner 12 MPG
Keith Bogans 10 MPG
Theo Ratliff 8 MPG

Would be a damn solid squad.

[xtremesteven33]

Spurs wont try and trade for Jackson. Im pretty sure about that. I think they want to concentrate more on acquiring role players and if they were to make one more blockbuster trade it would have to be for another big man IMO.

We already have 3 backcourt players who can go for 20PPG any given night. Spurs need a defensive presence next to Duncan if they wanna win it all. Mcdyess is a good player but I honestly think he cant contain either Bynum or Gasol especially if Bynum improves. Mcdyess will be solid for us this year but i just think that we need a bigger body....

[EricB]

Mcdyess is a good player but I honestly think he cant contain either Bynum or Gasol especially if Bynum improves.

Why couldn't he "contain" Gasol?

Bynum? Please...

[Taking it to the Hole]

Stephen Jackson and Richard Jefferson are completely different players....

Yeah, I will agree that they are, but while Jackson has improved offensively, his defensive skills have degraded. I really don't see Jack filling a need on our team now that we have Jefferson. If we are looking to give someone a green light to jack up 3's, I would rather have Mason doing it than Jack. He has had problems since leaving us in 2003 and really I am not sold on his desire to win another championship.

Also, we already have five guys who have been an All-Star at one time or another on this team. There is only one basketball and Jack is someone who basically shoots when he is passed to.

Lastly, the issue of his salary. We are already in the luxury tax, so we don't need to be spending more when the player isn't filling a PRESSING need.

[benefactor]

TBQH, I think the only way we trade for Jack is if we get towards the deadline and Manu is still a question mark.

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs wont try and trade for Jackson. Im pretty sure about that. I think they want to concentrate more on acquiring role players and if they were to make one more blockbuster trade it would have to be for another big man IMO.

We already have 3 backcourt players who can go for 20PPG any given night. Spurs need a defensive presence next to Duncan if they wanna win it all. Mcdyess is a good player but I honestly think he cant contain either Bynum or Gasol especially if Bynum improves. Mcdyess will be solid for us this year but i just think that we need a bigger body....

The centers are water downed this day and age. The player you want simply isn't alive. Camby could be that player to a very slight extent due to his age. There's a reason Spurs signed Ratliff even if its to contribute 10 minutes a game. He's a better defender and shot blocker and is tougher than Camby. They signed him to help out the areas you suggests that we need.

We will have to worry about defending a very versatile line up of :

Gasol Odom Artest Kobe Fisher when its put up or shut up time in the 4th quarter of important Laker/ Spur games in late May. Not Bynum.

A lineup of Duncan Jefferson Jackson Manu Parker could be a force against LA's go to line up with Odom at the 4.

[xtremesteven33]

Why couldn't he "contain" Gasol?

Bynum? Please...


Gasol is a great offensive player. He can be contained though, Chuck Hayes nearly shut him down completely last year but im not sure if Dyess still has that defensive ability anymore. I hope im wrong...

Also Bynum could make this Lakers team DAMN great if he continues to improve. Last year Duncan couldnt contain him at times and Bynum did a pretty damn good defensive job on Tim as well.

[manufan10]

Small ball to end games?

Tony PG
Manu SG
S Jax SF
Jefferson PF
Duncan C

Everyone always says to put your best players on the court.. would you end games like that?

[benefactor]

Small ball to end games?

Tony PG
Manu SG
S Jax SF
Jefferson PF
Duncan C

Everyone always says to put your best players on the court.. would you end games like that?
Probably not. We would have to stay bigger up front.

The SF position would likely depend on match ups and which player(RJ or Jack) could better exploit the player across from them. I would think that Jack would get more burn late in playoff games...because Jack's nuts hang low when it's late in the game.

[Sense]

I don't know if any of you know..

or if this is big news..

but about a week or two ago..

Jackson and Shaq were in Port Arthur, TX in a school I believe.....

I don't know if that means anything.. but yeah.

[SpurCharger]

I would Take SJax In A heartbeat, That Is The one Main Mistake I think The spurs Front office did was Letting Him go.... but He wont be Back, we Have nothing to Offer To Golden state..... but He does Have Ice In his Veins.....

[crc21209]

Man if we could land Jax for only a package of Bonner/Fin/picks/cash/ and whatever else we could have some straight big time shot makers in Mason and Jax. :tu. That would be the shit.

[MaNu4Tres]

Man if we could land Jax for only a package of Bonner/Fin/picks/cash/ and whatever else we could have some straight big time shot makers in Mason and Jax. :tu. That would be the shit.

We'd have to include Mason.

[crc21209]

We'd have to include Mason.

Just sayin if somehow it could be done...

[benefactor]

It would actually be more ideal to include Mason. Now that we have signed Bogans there would be a log jam at the wing and it would be difficult to justify keeping both Mason and Jack because there just isn't enough minutes to go around. Sending Mason would allow Jack to start at the 2 guard and he could also slide over to SF when Manu comes in.

[TDMVPDPOY]

jax is teh ultimate team mate, you be a fool not going after his services....

[lotr1trekkie]

I don't think Jax fits into the new Spurs mold. Really don't have a true center but Tim. McDyess is not a true center. Jax coming off the bench with Manu would be awesome. Starting with RJ, Tony, Tim, and Dice really doesn't provide Jax with enough shots. Since he left us he has become a shot hog, playing with team that expect him to score alot. IF we got him he would need to score 10-12 a game. He doesn't fit as exciting as the picture may seem.

[wildbill2u]

This is like one of those horror movies where the monster is killed, finito, no mas, the end, dead as a doornail....and then comes back to life.

Some folks need to get a grip. Repeat after me. Jax will not play for the Spurs this year...not ever.