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Kai
08-30-2009, 11:05 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-top-10-best-defenders-of-the-last-decade?urn=nba,185792#remaining-content

The top 10 best defenders of the last decade

By Kelly Dwyer

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__31/ept_sports_nba_experts-215219326-1251475753.jpg?ympUZzBDlGkjNpDA

OK, we know the first decade of the 21st century doesn't really end until 2011. We think. But we also know there have been 10 full NBA seasons played since the phrase "Y2K" was on all of our lips (1999-2000), and here at Ball Don't Lie we've decided to use this as an offseason excuse to rank some of the best and not-so-brightest of the 10 campaigns in question. The result? Why, top 10 lists!

Defense ... now there's something you can argue about.

It's hard to qualify with stats. Some of the best defensive stat-hoarders can also be the worst defenders. Some of the best defenders give you absolutely no stats at all. And even a spirited attempt at chasing down your man, or helping on others, can result in a selfish, defensively crippling play. I love this game.

We've read up on individual defensive stats, how well a defender's man plays against him, and how well his team does with him defensively on or off the court. And with that knowledge in hand, we rank. But we also rank based on what we've seen, how well these men do in a team concept, and just how well they defend even if their man does somehow spin in a 20-footer with two hands in his face. Sometimes the best defense ... doesn't work. Once again, I love this game.

10. Kirk Hinrich
http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__31/ept_sports_nba_experts-300039904-1251475850.jpg?ymLWZzBD16EciPmm
Hinrich fell off noticeably in 2007-08, though he did bounce back by a goodly sum last season. It does little to jettison him from this list, as the Bulls combo guard moves his feet quite well and uses a lanky-ish frame (for someone his size) to pester all manner of point and shooting guards, alongside the occasional small forward. Not the flashiest guy, he won't be stripping you at the top of the key, but he will force you into giving up the ball or giving into a low-possession shot.

9. Eric Snow
http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__31/ept_sports_nba_experts-638013974-1251476332.jpg?ymsdZzBDr4X7ah7W
Toward the end of his career, Snow was a little overrated when it came to defense, but that does little to do away with the recollections of just how great he was in his prime. Snow may have been aided because he was able to work his magic during the peak of the NBA's hand-check-y-est era, but he could have shut point men down under any circumstances. A fine help defender, as well.

8. Jason Kidd
http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__31/ept_sports_nba_experts-648327571-1251476351.jpg?ym_dZzBDuzPclj3_
By now, Kidd's actually a defensive liability, something few realized during his last few years with the Nets until he was traded to the Mavericks and had the national spotlight shine on his declining side-to-side movement.

This doesn't mean that, especially in his first few seasons with New Jersey, Kidd wasn't an absolute game-changer defensively. His addition (among others, we should point out) completely turned the Nets around in 2001-02 - they jumped from 24th to 17th in offense, which is what everyone talked about, but flew from 23rd to 1st overall defensively with Kidd at the lead. For comparison's sake, that's like last season's Knicks (23rd overall in defensive efficiency) jumping to the top of the list in 2009-10. No wonder they tried to sign Kidd this summer.

7. Bruce Bowen
http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__31/ept_sports_nba_experts-819712530-1251476372.jpg?ymUeZzBDxroLWtdj
A shut-down guy who managed to do his best work years after most players hit their prime. Bowen did his damage in his early-to-mid 30s on Heat and Spurs teams after bouncing around the league a bit. He never was much of a rebounder or shot-blocker, and steals were not his bag, but he would shut opposing wings down, constantly. Also, he'll kick the crap out of you.

6. Ron Artest
http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__31/ept_sports_nba_experts-414594879-1251476395.jpg?ymreZzBDvSlEUHv6
A low ranking on this list might surprise some, but Artest does tend to get by on reputation a good chunk of the time. He gambles for steals, or ignores any chance at help defense as he obsesses over his man, and overplays to the point of hurting his team. He can be the rare selfish defender. He can also be the best defender in the league, mixing a desperate doggedness to dominate with long arms, a sturdy frame (to say the least) and quick feet.

5. Dikembe Mutombo
http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__31/ept_sports_nba_experts-776499503-1251476409.jpg?ym5eZzBDu_kOPsnr
The ageless big man would change games defensively, but because the core of this list is so sound, we're forced to nit-pick and point out that he wasn't exactly an all-leaguer at pick-and-roll defense. That's assuming anyone would want to roll anywhere near Dikembe, who managed to carve out quite a career as a strong-side shot-blocker, sort of the anti-Marcus Camby(notes) (who, as you'll notice, is not on this list).

4. Tim Duncan
http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__31/ept_sports_nba_experts-27412074-1251476424.jpg?ymIfZzBDrE1_702x
Somehow, while pouring in over 20 a game, Duncan nearly managed to rule just as well as Ben Wallace(notes) did. He covered huge bits of floor while his guards recovered after the "screen" part of the screen-and-roll, blocked shots on the ball (he's been especially adept at giving a small guard a small step to drive with his strong hand, then recovering quickly enough to swat the shot with his left hand), and secured rebound after rebound. And he never fouled. Never sent teams to the line for cheap points. That's so huge.

As well-regarded as he is, Duncan is still underrated defensively. You could argue for him to be higher on this list, as well. It would be a tough argument to counter.

3. Ben Wallace
http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__31/ept_sports_nba_experts-570150746-1251476440.jpg?ymYfZzBD2nmtezTi
Wallace's on/off-court stats are still among the league's best, the fact of the matter is that teams are still way, way better defensively with him around. I think it's a bit of a mirage, at least these days, as he still gambles way too much on chasing down guards or running around away from the rim.

Somehow, though, it still gets the job done. And during his prime, Wallace was just a stud. Blocked your shot, sure, but he changed and altered five times as many, while still (and this is so, so huge) picking up the rebound after forcing some poor soul into an attempt that was bound to go in barely a third of the time.


2. Shane Battier
http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__31/ept_sports_nba_experts-619062672-1251476459.jpg?ymrfZzBDj0tVjUgR
If you watch this guy, on any given possession, you'll understand. Just take your eye off the ball and watch Battier work — the guy acts as if he's in his own reality show, as if the cameras were on him for the entire 24-second turn, even if his man never gets the ball, while appearing deathly allergic to letting people down. Battier just does everything right. It may not mean he'll get the rebound, block or steal — and his guy might still nail the shot — but I've never seen someone pitch as many perfect games defensively.

1. Kevin Garnett
http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__31/ept_sports_nba_experts-21673686-1251476479.jpg?ym_fZzBDka2ACYW7

KG stands alone because he pitches nearly as many perfect games, while combining Tim Duncan's length and frame with a guard's ability to move his feet. Garnett has become a bit more showy about things after getting traded to the Boston Celtics, but his time spent toiling for those awful Minnesota teams prior to that -- and his years spent dominating on some solid-to-great Timberwolves teams prior to that -- were the work of a defensive genius. He just guarded everyone, every play, every feint, every drive, everything. And then he'd get the rebound. Pity that nobody seemed to be paying attention.

Muser
08-30-2009, 11:50 AM
Been posted in the spurs forum but i'll say it again

Lol at Battier being ahead of Duncan/Wallace.

Biggems
08-30-2009, 12:11 PM
Im sorry but no way do I put Garnett over Duncan....

Biggems
08-30-2009, 12:12 PM
I also cannot believe that Hinrich made the list over Kobe Bryant.....that is funny

DUNCANownsKOBE2
08-30-2009, 12:18 PM
I also cannot believe that Hinrich made the list over Kobe Bryant.....that is funny

I can't believe Kirk "Rich man's Jason Williams" Hinrich made over about 100 more deserving players.

Hornets1
08-30-2009, 12:27 PM
Hinrich? Really? Kurt Thomas, James Posey, KOBE, and Camby are 4 that come to mind right away that are miles ahead of hinrich defensively

picc84
08-30-2009, 12:27 PM
Battier at #2....lol for a number of comical reasons.

Hornets1
08-30-2009, 12:30 PM
Battier at #2....lol for a number of comical reasons.

Battier is a great defender! However, putting him ahead of Mutombo, Wallace, Bowen, and Duncan is a JOKE. I do like battier better than artest as a defender; he is more disciplined.

"Artest racks a disciprine"

DUNCANownsKOBE2
08-30-2009, 12:33 PM
Hinrich? Really? Kurt Thomas, James Posey, KOBE, and Camby are 4 that come to mind right away that are miles ahead of hinrich defensively


There are simply too many to list.

Billups, Raja Bell, Shawn Marion, etc.

Muser
08-30-2009, 12:33 PM
I thought it was Nash with the picture of Eric Snow :lol

picc84
08-30-2009, 12:34 PM
Hinrich? Really? Kurt Thomas, James Posey, KOBE, and Camby are 4 that come to mind right away that are miles ahead of hinrich defensively

Hinrich is a great defensive player.

And Battier is as well, but him being at #2 is like calling Steve Nash the best point guard of all time.

balli
08-30-2009, 12:34 PM
Man, Garnett used to be so damn cool. I don't hate him like most people, but he's not even a third as cool as he was in MIN.

TD should be two.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
08-30-2009, 12:37 PM
Hinrich is a great defensive player.


Not top 10 of the decade. Not even close.

Muser
08-30-2009, 12:39 PM
No Marcus Camby even though he won a DPOY?

picc84
08-30-2009, 12:40 PM
Not top 10 of the decade. Not even close.

I think he's better defensively than Billups or Bell even at their defensive peak.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
08-30-2009, 12:42 PM
I think he's better defensively than Billups or Bell even at their defensive peak.


:lmao

Bob Lanier
08-30-2009, 12:45 PM
I think he's better defensively than Billups or Bell even at their defensive peak.
That's certainly true. But Billups and Bell aren't close to top-10 either.

Why people should care what some blogger named "Kelly" who works for BSPN thinks about basketball is beyond me, though.

Also, :lol at anyone being above Duncan on this list.

picc84
08-30-2009, 12:47 PM
:lmao

:toast

DUNCANownsKOBE2
08-30-2009, 12:47 PM
If Kirk Hinrich played on a small market team, no one would know his name, let alone rave about the great defense he doesn't play.

picc84
08-30-2009, 12:48 PM
That's certainly true. But Billups and Bell aren't close to top-10 either.



Who would be your top 10?

I'd also like to add that Tay Prince has gotten severely overrated now. He had one good series against Tmac and one good series against Kobe. The last few years he's been getting his lunch handed to him routinely by the league's wings. He's still gliding off rep from 2003 and 2004.

picc84
08-30-2009, 12:53 PM
If Kirk Hinrich played on a small market team, no one would know his name, let alone rave about the great defense he doesn't play.

Dont be silly, no one cares about the Bulls.No one raves about phantom attributes of Knicks players and they're the highest market team in the league. Its pretty clear what team you play for has no bearing on what people think if they're listing Shane Battier of the Memphis Grizzlies and Houston Rockets as the 2nd best defensive player of the 2000's.

Hornets1
08-30-2009, 12:55 PM
I think he's better defensively than Billups or Bell even at their defensive peak.

Dude, are you being serious?:bang:bang





Don't get me wrong, Hinrich is a good player and a very good defender, but his name doesn't deserve to be mentioned anywhere near this list.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
08-30-2009, 12:55 PM
At his peak, Raja was a first all NBA defender.

A feat Kirk hasn't and never will accomplish.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
08-30-2009, 12:56 PM
Dont be silly, no one cares about the Bulls.No one raves about phantom attributes of Knicks players and they're the highest market team in the league. Its pretty clear what team you play for has no bearing on what people think if they're listing Shane Battier of the Memphis Grizzlies and Houston Rockets as the 2nd best defensive player of the 2000's.

Guaranteed Battier isn't even on this list if that series against Kobe isn't fresh in this dumb broad's mind.

picc84
08-30-2009, 01:03 PM
At his peak, Raja was a first all NBA defender.

A feat Kirk hasn't and never will accomplish.

And last year, Kobe was voted first team all nba defense over Dwyane Wade. I think that wraps up our discussion on first team all nba defense selections.

picc84
08-30-2009, 01:03 PM
Guaranteed Battier isn't even on this list if that series against Kobe isn't fresh in this dumb broad's mind.

This article was written by a woman?

I didnt even look. That explains everything.

Bob Lanier
08-30-2009, 01:15 PM
I'd also like to add that Tay Prince has gotten severely overrated now. He had one good series against Tmac and one good series against Kobe. The last few years he's been getting his lunch handed to him routinely by the league's wings. He's still gliding off rep from 2003 and 2004.
:tu

This article was written by a woman?

I didnt even look. That explains everything.
:td and blocked.

IronMexican
08-30-2009, 01:17 PM
Duncan should be #1.

Bob Lanier
08-30-2009, 01:18 PM
If Kirk Hinrich played on a small market team, no one would know his name, let alone rave about the great defense he doesn't play.
And this isn't true about Raja Bell and the media darlings on Nash's team in Phoenix?

Did anyone (aside from Charley Rosen) think Bell was a notable defender in Dallas or Utah?

Kai
08-30-2009, 01:21 PM
This article was written by a woman?

I didnt even look. That explains everything.

Wrong. Kelly Dwyer is a guy.

mojorizen7
08-30-2009, 04:23 PM
I can't believe Kirk "Rich man's Jason Williams" Hinrich made over about 100 more deserving players.

Yeah um.....Hinrich on this list = headscratcher
Look i'm a self proclaimed Kobe hater but how is he not somewhere on this list?

I saw this list and thought....incomplete and out of order.
Is Garnett really a monster defensively?....enough to rank over guys like Duncan,Artest,B. Wallace and Bowen?
I could be wrong but I think not.
I might even put Bowen at the top of this list although big men usually get the nod on lists like these.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
08-30-2009, 04:31 PM
Wrong. Kelly Dwyer is a guy.


Guy named Kelly = fag

DUNCANownsKOBE2
08-30-2009, 04:31 PM
And this isn't true about Raja Bell and the media darlings on Nash's team in Phoenix?


Raja Bell has been a two time all NBA first team defender.....Kirk Hinrich hasn't had that honor once. The proof is in the pudding.

picc84
08-30-2009, 05:40 PM
Raja Bell has been a two time all NBA first team defender.....Kirk Hinrich hasn't had that honor once. The proof is in the pudding.

Kinda shows that the "big market = big hype" thing doesn't apply to him.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
08-30-2009, 05:43 PM
Kinda shows that the "big market = big hype" thing doesn't apply to him.


You're making no sense.


Kirk Hinrich not being a first all NBA defender has nothing to do with the team he plays for, it has something to do with the fact he's not a first all NBA defender.

Phillip
08-30-2009, 06:03 PM
What a fucking dumbass list. KG is the best defender of the past decade? Really?

Kidd is not a defensive liability as this dumbass proclaims. Obviously he can't stick super fast PGs like Parker, Harris, or Paul, but then again... who can? He can still play good defense against most other people he faces.

Bruce Bowen at #7? GTFO he should definitely be top 3.

Battier is very good, but should not be ahead of Bowen or Duncan or Wallace.

Eric Snow over Raja Bell?

This list is fucking stupid.

Bob Lanier
08-30-2009, 06:29 PM
Raja Bell has been a two time all NBA first team defender.....Kirk Hinrich hasn't had that honor once. The proof is in the pudding.Larry Hughes was an all-defensive team player, which should tell you all you need to know about that particular honor.

Or, in terms you can understand, Steve Nash was a two-time NBA most valuable player; Dwyane Wade hasn't had that honor once. Steve Nash > Dwyane Wade.

picc84
08-30-2009, 06:42 PM
You're making no sense.


Kirk Hinrich not being a first all NBA defender has nothing to do with the team he plays for, it has something to do with the fact he's not a first all NBA defender.

You said that because he plays on a big market team, his defense gets unwarranted rave and praise. The fact that he's never made an all-defensive team actually serves to de-substantiate that theory.

In addition, being named to an all-nba defensive first defensive team in no way means you were on the first echelon of defenders that season, the same way not being named to one doesn't mean you weren't.

For example.

2009:
Kobe Bryant, first team - Dwayne Wade, second team
Chris Paul, first team - Shane Battier/Tim Duncan, second team

2007:
Raja Bell, first team - Kevin Garnett/Ben Wallace, second team

2005:
Larry Hughes, first team (!) - Jason Kidd/Tayshaun Prince, second team

Shane Battier, as overrated as he was on this list, has never made a first defensive team while being at the very least the same caliber defender Bell is. Horace Grant never made first team defense either. Dan Majerle made an all defensive team once in his career, and it was to the 2nd team.

These lists arent made by an all knowing basketball God, they're put together by votes compiled from coaches who usually vote based on reputation and/or steals and blocks statistics, as clearly evidenced by Larry Hughes selection in 2005 and Chris Paul and Kobe Bryants selection over superior defenders in 2009.

Raja Bell having made first team one time to Kirk's one time second team is as good an indicator of his superiority to Kirk as Alonzo Mournings 2x time selection indicates he's the defensive equal of 2x selection Marcus Camby. Or that 2x MVP Steve Nash is more valuable than 1x MVP Shaquille O'Neal. Or that 11 time NBA champion Bill Russell is better than 6 time champion Michael Jordan. Or etc. etc.

Really, it doesn't mean anything. Its better to base opinion from just watching them play. If you can maintain your position without including the meritless comparison of all nba defense teams, I can respect that. Though I (highly) disagree.

mojorizen7
08-30-2009, 06:46 PM
Whats the debate here?
When both in prime......Raja > Hindrich defensively easily.

picc84
08-30-2009, 06:49 PM
Dont think i've ever seen Hindrich play defense. Who's he play for? :D

My Fault
08-30-2009, 06:54 PM
Lol @ this list

DUNCANownsKOBE2
08-30-2009, 07:20 PM
Larry Hughes was an all-defensive team player, which should tell you all you need to know about that particular honor.

Or, in terms you can understand, Steve Nash was a two-time NBA most valuable player; Dwyane Wade hasn't had that honor once. Steve Nash > Dwyane Wade.

The quote was "at their peak". At Raja's Peak, he was a far and away superior defender.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
08-30-2009, 07:24 PM
And at Nash's peak, he was better than D-Wade was at the time.

picc84
08-30-2009, 07:32 PM
And at Nash's peak, he was better than D-Wade was at the time.

Maybe, maybe not, but thats inconsequential. At Nash's peak, he had 2 MVP awards. At Wade's peak thus far, he has 0 MVP awards. Nash peak > Wade peak?

UrAphag
08-30-2009, 07:57 PM
I feel like i'm watching a kobe bryant picture mix

ThePop
08-30-2009, 09:03 PM
lol garnett

ambchang
08-31-2009, 04:25 PM
This list is just so full of fail that I don't even know where to begin.

Garnett has become overly hyped since he joined the Celtics. Look at the Wolves when he was there, you don't see the Wolves being some kind of defensive juggernaut back then despite have capable defenders in other positions.

Battier > Bowen? Bowen and Artest were the top two perimeter defenders in the league for the past decade. While both saw steep declines the last year or so, their overall impact during the last decade far out ranked anything Battier ever accomplished.

Finally, I am surprised I don't see LeBron James somewhere, the writer must not have gotten the memo from the NBA, all list must include LeBron James, preferrably at the top.

Showtime24 LAKERS
08-31-2009, 04:43 PM
QBu28UwDzps&feature

Talk about Defense....where da hell is Kobe Bryant???

Mori Chu
09-01-2009, 03:19 AM
No Raja Bell = fail.

Sdayi135
09-01-2009, 03:58 AM
talk about defense....where da hell is kobe bryant???

+1

Culburn369
09-01-2009, 03:59 AM
Mori, sweetheart, clotheslining Bryant doesn't make one a great defender, just a thug.

LnGrrrR
09-01-2009, 08:52 AM
My coworkers and I guessed people on the list before we looked at it, and we all figured Bryant would be on there.

Rogue
09-01-2009, 09:44 AM
Shane was landed slightly higher than where he actually belongs. It's undeniable Shane is far more influential than his stats illustrate, but I don't think he's well worth #2 which is even higher than Ben, Bowen, Mutombo etc... After all, Ben and Mutombo each have won multiple DOY titles respectively, Bruce Bowen was a perennial attender in defensive squad of season.

Halberto
09-01-2009, 12:31 PM
A quick list of guards better defensively than Hinrich:

Wade
CP3
Billups
Devin Harris
Ray Allen
Raja Bell


I think Hinrich is a solid player with few weaknesses, but he doesn't deserve to be on this list.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
09-01-2009, 12:34 PM
A quick list of guards better defensively than Hinrich:

Wade
CP3
Billups
Devin Harris
Ray Allen
Raja Bell


I think Hinrich is a solid player with few weaknesses, but he doesn't deserve to be on this list.

I agree with everything except for CP3 and Ray Allen. CP3 is great at ball hawking and gambling when he plays the passing lanes, but he's a piss poor 1 on 1 defender.

Ray Allen, well, he's just an average at best defender.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
09-01-2009, 12:37 PM
Maybe, maybe not, but thats inconsequential. At Nash's peak, he had 2 MVP awards. At Wade's peak thus far, he has 0 MVP awards. Nash peak > Wade peak?


I'm not trying to argue Nash > Wade, Bob Lanier said at Raja's peak, Hinrich is still a better defender. Our argument went on a tangent.

Ikstomi
09-01-2009, 02:08 PM
KG,Duncan,Bowen,Artest,Battier,Ben Wallace