Lakers guard Farmar: I want to start

[Sdayi135]

Lakers guard Farmar: I want to start (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/10008834/Lakers-guard-Farmar:-I-want-to-start)


SINGAPORE (AP) - Los Angeles Lakers reserve point guard Jordan Farmar wants be a starter, either with the Lakers or another NBA team.


"I want to run a team and be the lead guard," Farmar said Tuesday on the sidelines of a basketball clinic in Singapore. "Hopefully, it can be here (with the Lakers)."


"There's a lot of jobs out there. I feel I have a lot to offer."

The 22-year-old Farmar averaged 6.4 points and 2.4 assists in 65 regular-season games last season as the Lakers won their 15th championship.

Farmar, who will be entering his fourth year with the Lakers, saw his playing time drop last season to an average of 18.3 minutes per game from 20.6 the previous season.

Farmar said he wasn't surprised general manager Mitch Kupchak fielded trade offers from other teams during the offseason.

"I've talked to Mitch a bunch of times and he says he's got a ton of offers and didn't consider trading me," Farmar said. "It's just you have to entertain all the offers you get.

"Since I haven't got traded, it means they want me here."

Farmar, who grew up in Los Angeles and played two seasons at UCLA, said veteran point guard Derek Fisher will likely begin next season as the starter again.

"Derek's had a great run," he said. "He's probably going to be the guy starting off. I just want to continue to push him."

Farmar said it's difficult to find opportunities to shine in the Lakers' star-studded lineup, which includes 11-time All-Star Kobe Bryant.

"It's hard. He's the best," Farmar said when asked about playing with Bryant. "He demands a lot of attention. He demands the ball a lot of the time."

"It's tough for any young player to come into a really good team and try to find their niche."

Farmar said he expects forward Ron Artest, who signed with the Lakers this summer, to fit in well with his new team.

"He's a great guy," Farmar said. "He's never had any problem with any of his teammates. He's coming over here because he wants to win."

[spursfan1000]

Yeah, I would start him during the regular season and if it dosent work out they can just start Fisher in the playoffs. I'm pretty sure the Lakers could be as succsessfull with Farmar then with Fisher, only difference is that Farmar is a whole lot younger.

[lefty]

Nothing against Farmar as a BB player, but he should just keep little mouth shot.

Fisher is a proven playoff performer, not Farmer

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Shannon Brown > Farmar

[IronMexican]

I'd rather Phil give Brown all of Farmar's minutes.

[Spursfan092120]

Want in one hand, shit in the other. Lakers should start Brown IMO.

[Hooks]

Lakers should do it, I'd love it for Farmar to start, along with Walton and Mbenga starting as well :)

[Ghazi]

Fisher must start.

[JamStone]

"There's a lot of jobs out there."

I don't think Farmar really realizes who lucky he is to have an NBA job, much less think it would be easy to get a starting PG job elsewhere in the NBA. Not that he doesn't have talent, but in honesty, he's a borderline NBA player, maybe an end of the bench caliber NBA player in really a great situation because he plays on a team full of players that demand double team and triple team attention. He sounds like he feels he could be a star in the NBA. I think if he were really to walk down that path, he'd be humbled quite a bit.

[xtremesteven33]

Farmar would suck as the Lakers starting PG. He doesnt have the composure nor the qualities to lead that team with that much talent to a championship. Hes a good backup. Thats the way it should stay.....

[Culburn369]

[[["Derek's had a great run," he said. "He's probably going to be the guy starting off. I just want to continue to push him."]]]

Bingo.

[carrao45]

Considering how Jordy played when he started, I would give him the chance to start

[exstatic]

Farmar = FAIL

[picc84]

This is tricky because Jordan really is a very talented offensive player. He doesn't get to showcase it very often because of the nature of our offense but he's very talented. He can score and create as well as some of the other point guards in the NBA. But his defense leaves a lot to be desired, and he tends to get careless with his decision making, especially with leads.

I wouldnt have a problem with him starting, though it wont happen, as long as Fisher saw the minutes toward the end of the game. Sort of like Bynum and Odom's deal. Our starting lineup needs more speed anyway, thats something i've been saying for a while. Give him a chance to show what he can do given minutes and more freedom, and if it doesn't work, have him relinquish the role and let him go this upcoming summer. I have a feeling he's going to have a good season since its his contract year, but I feel better about Shannon Brown. He's gonna be here for a while.

[spursfan1000]

eat shit

Very mature.

[23LeBronJames23]

Lakers should do it, I'd love it for Farmar to start, along with Walton and Mbenga starting as well :)

and vujabich

[KSeal]

Fisher will start but I could see SB and Farmar getting the bulk of the minutes to keep Fishers corpse fresh for the playoffs. Ego ears needs to STFU and play better until he starts whining for a starting gig in the NBA.

[Def Rowe]

What's with these Laker scrubs having huge egos... Farmar would be below average on whatever team he was on. He's a point guard that doesn't know how to set up the offense. Turns the ball over then yells at his team mates. lol

Just package him with Ammo for a decent backup 1 guard please.

[iggypop123]

this is like oden demanding to start

[DPG21920]

I am astonished at how many Laker fans think SB is better than Famar. His ego and attitude seem questionable, but if he works hard and listens, I think he is definitely more talented than SB imo.

[KSeal]

I am astonished at how many Laker fans think SB is better than Famar. His ego and attitude seem questionable, but if he works hard and listens, I think he is definitely more talented than SB imo.

Shannon plays way better defense, is more athletic, shots the three just as good if not better and plays smarter.

[JamStone]

Shannon plays way better defense, is more athletic, shots the three just as good if not better and plays smarter.


You cant have your PG shooting 58% free throws, and your worst passer.

Agreed on both. But, perhaps that's why Shannon Brown fits ok with the Lakers. They don't need a great passer at the point guard position with Kobe and Gasol and Odom often the primary facilitators on offense.

Shannon Brown isn't a 58% free throw shooter. But, he is more of a shooting guard than a point guard.

Edit: thought the 58% was referring to Brown. At any rate, Farmar really isn't that bad from the free throw line either. He even shoots over 80% in his combined three post seasons. Not really a big deal regardless because point guards on the Lakers aren't going to the free throw line much at all. And, if it's a problem, it would only be one late in games where you can put Fisher back in.

[DPG21920]

Shannon plays way better defense, is more athletic, shots the three just as good if not better and plays smarter.

Then why was SB so average before? Why was Farmar's worst PER better than Shannon Brown's average PER? Why was Farmar's highest PER with the Lakers, much better than SB's even in SB's best year?


You cant have your PG shooting 58% free throws, and your worst passer.

Can you have a PG that shoots 39% FG's and 28% 3PT's in the playoffs?


I just am not sold on the fact Brown is more talented than Farmar. He played very well, and the system fits, but all things equal, I think Farmar is better. Now, if Brown works and Farmar goes emo, then I can definitely see SB kicking Farmar out of the rotation.

Even in his worst year which was last year, Farmar had a better playoff PER than Brown this year.

[picc84]

I dont think anyone's saying Shannon is more talented than Jordan. He clearly is not. But his skillset and attitude is right for the triangle defense. He plays defense, can hit the open 3, and has a humble demeanor. Farmar is better at creating his own shot and making plays for teammates, but those are a lower premium for us since the ball is in Kobe's hands on the perimeter most of the time, as Jordan said.

I'd like us to run some more traditional sets so that he can develop and showcase how good he can be, since I think that would also begin to get Kobe easier looks with the ball out of his hands a little more and perhaps increase his efficiency. Plus, I like Farmar. I've followed him for a while and he's a good kid, regardless of whether he's a little cocky or not. I want him to succeed and to be able to flourish if he can prove he's good enough to do it.

Pure talent and skills wise, Jordan is the best PG on our team. We all know that doesn't make you the best player though, so i'm hoping his maturity develops this upcoming season so he can maximize that talent without wasting it on poor decision-making and laziness on defense.

Shannon took much less money to stay with us when he had a great offer from Indy. I'd love to say I think Jordan would do the same but I can't, so I just hope he develops enough this season that PJ gives him enough room to play and grow so that he feels like he wants to remain a Laker.

If not, he'll be leaving town and i'll wish him the best.

I'd love for Kobe to not be the only playmaker in the backcourt anymore though.

[DPG21920]

Say what you want about his attitude and fit, but Famar is a better PG and player than Brown. Brown might work harder and fit his role better, but he is not the better player.

[DPG21920]

I am not disagreeing with that. But it will be because of attitude and playing a role more than likely. If it just came down to PG ability and overall talent, I think Famar would win. But also, maybe Shannon Brown makes another leap next year in his abilities and that changes.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

First off, Brown is a way better defender than Farmar. Not even close. Second, Brown will play his role. Farmar might be a better individual player, but Shannon Brown is by far a way better fit in the triangle.

[DPG21920]

Ya, I read that. I mean it is hard for me to dog the guy for wanting the starting job. I would be worried if a guy did not care. There is a fine line between being a cancer and being a fierce competitor.

Especially when Fish was very average this year. I don't think those comments were too bad. Some were, but then he says he just wants to push Fish as well. I do not know how he is in the locker room or how he works on his game.

[DPG21920]

First off, Brown is a way better defender than Farmar. Not even close. Second, Brown will play his role. Farmar might be a better individual player, but Shannon Brown is by far a way better fit in the triangle.

The PER's don't say so. But that is not the entire picture.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The PER's don't say so. But that is not the entire picture.


I don't care about PER, the point guard's job in the triangle isn't to stuff the stat sheet.

[DPG21920]

PER is not about stuffing the stat sheet. It is about being efficient in system.


PER takes into account positive accomplishments, such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, and negative ones, such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls. The formula adds positive stats and subtracts negative ones through a statistical point value system. The rating for each player is then adjusted to a per-minute basis so that, for example, substitutes can be compared with starters in playing time debates. It is also adjusted for the team's pace. In the end, one number sums up the players' statistical accomplishments for that season.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

PER is not about stuffing the stat sheet.


I know it's an individual stat, and not a team stat. And if it's not about stuffing the stat sheet, what is it about?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

In the end, one number sums up the players' statistical accomplishments

[DPG21920]

Is it called Player statistical rating or Player Efficiency Rating?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Is it called Player statistical rating or Player Efficiency Rating?


Quit intentionally acting stupid.

[DPG21920]

Thats funny coming from you. You are a fool if you think PER rewards chucking shots and being crappy. It is about being efficient. Not about padding stats. Do stats play a role? Yes. But there is a difference in stats playing a role and padding stats.

The highest scorers in the league do not have the highest PER. By your logic, since Brown makes the Lakers defense better in PPG against, he pads his defensive stats.

You just like to argue for the sake of it. You are wrong about Rubio/PER and many other things and you lack the simple understanding of concepts often. It is mind blowing.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You just like to argue for the sake of it.


This is coming from someone who interjects in countless amounts of Nash arguments he's got no reason to be involved with.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

But you're right, PER isn't a stat. I'm sure that's why John Hollinger created it, he's known for not using stats.

[DPG21920]

Why would I have no reason? Because it does not say Suns fan under my name? You have no reason to be on SpursTalk then. Or in a Lakers thread. Or a Rubio thread.

[DPG21920]

But you're right, PER isn't a stat. I'm sure that's why John Hollinger created it, he's known for not using stats.

It is STATISTICAL BASED, not based on PADDING STATS. Are you this dense? So, the leading scorers, who pad their stats, have the highest PER's?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The highest scorers in the league do not have the highest PER.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

PER leaders:

1) Lebron James, 31.76
2) Dwayne Wade, 30.46

PPG leaders:

1) Dwayne Wade, 30.2
2) Lebron James, 28.4

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

It is STATISTICAL BASED, not based on PADDING STATS.


I never said it was based on padding stats. I said "stuffing the stat sheet". Players who "stuff the stat sheet", as in get a lot of all around stats, have the highest PER.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

So, the leading scorers, who pad their stats, have the highest PER's?


Of last years top 10 players in PPG, 6 of those 10 were also top 10 in PER. I'd say scoring points definitely has a strong connection to PER.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Why would I have no reason? Because it does not say Suns fan under my name? You have no reason to be on SpursTalk then. Or in a Lakers thread. Or a Rubio thread.


So then don't tell me I "argue for the hell of it" when you do the same.

[DPG21920]

Ok, semantics game. That is not exactly what I meant, but kind of. Yes, the "highest scorers" last year did have the highest PER. In that regards I was wrong. But I was going off of the efficient argument, not "padding stats". Just so happens those two are extremely efficient, but then after that list, guys who are efficient across the board are next. Generally high scorers are efficient, but if you did not mean "padding stats", but "stat stuffing" ok. Chuckers is who I thought you were referring to, and I thought that is what you meant with Farmar.

But please now explain how Brown is a better fit for the triangle. Please explain the triangle offense and why you would make that statement.

But please explain to me how

[DPG21920]

Of last years top 10 players in PPG, 6 of those 10 were also top 10 in PER. I'd say scoring points definitely has a strong connection to PER.

It does, but that is not what I meant exactly. I meant chuckers are not rewarded. But, yes, high scorers often are efficient, but not in every case. And PER does not reward one dimensional chuckers was what I was getting at.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

But please now explain how Brown is a better fit for the triangle. Please explain the triangle offense and why you would make that statement.

But please explain to me how


You already explained it. One player knows his role, the other doesn't.

[DPG21920]

So then don't tell me I "argue for the hell of it" when you do the same.

No. You start random ass arguments. I was in here talking about Farmar. You come in and start arguing about PER and get every thing off track. I followed suit like an idiot because I feel, like others that I have to correct the hate you spew without knowing the details. Then you rely on trying to twist and contort words so you can :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

You argue about Rubio, when you do not even know about his buyout.

You argue about Nash all of the time, to the point people make fun of you.

[DPG21920]

You already explained it. One player knows his role, the other doesn't.

Farmar had very good success in 08. He knew his role. His best year was better than Browns. Lets see how it shakes out.

[DPG21920]

double post.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Chuckers is who I thought you were referring to, and I thought that is what you meant with Farmar.



Na, I get why you argued against that point though, I said stat stuffing as in stats across the board. In the triangle, never see the PG score very many points, get very many assists, or really do anything that would positively effect PER. That's why I said a PG's PER is a bad gauge for how well they fit the triangle.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

No. You start random ass arguments. I was in here talking about Farmar. You come in and start arguing about PER and get every thing off track.


Wtf are you talking about? You were the one who brought PER up.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Farmar had very good success in 08.


But he now expects to play an expanded role the PG can't successfully play in the triangle, so his ego gets in the way.

[DPG21920]

I was using PER as it pertains to Farmar vs Brown. You started an argument about "PER" in principle.

[DPG21920]

Na, I get why you argued against that point though, I said stat stuffing as in stats across the board. In the triangle, never see the PG score very many points, get very many assists, or really do anything that would positively effect PER. That's why I said a PG's PER is a bad gauge for how well they fit the triangle.

Maybe, but all things considered, I would rather have the better player and PG who has a better PER in the same system.

I don't think Farmar wants to be a 20PPG scorer, he wants to start and be in during crunch time.

I am not sure if that is the truth, but it is what it seems to me.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You argue about Nash all of the time, to the point people make fun of you.


My animosity towards Nash is not nearly as comical as a Spurs fan trying to tell someone how good Steve Nash is.

[DPG21920]

But at this point, it is over. Nothing can be said really and we have to wait until next year. I was just saying, from before, I was surprised at how many Laker fans argued that Brown is a better point guard/player than Farmar.

Brown might have a better attitude/ego, but I don't think he is a better player overall. If Famar has the right attitude, he can be more valuable imo.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Maybe, but all things considered, I would rather have the better player and PG who has a better PER in the same system.


Lakers offensive efficiency rating w/ Brown ON the court: 115.9
Lakers offensive efficiency rating w/ Brown OFF the court: 113.8

Lakers defensive efficiency rating w/ Brown ON the court: 101.1
Lakers defensive efficiency rating w/ Brown OFF the court: 105.7

Lakers offensive efficiency rating w/ Farmar ON the court: 107.1
Lakers offensive efficiency rating w/ Farmar OFF the court: 116.8

Lakers defensive efficiency rating w/ Farmar ON the court: 105.5
Lakers defensive efficiency rating w/ Farmar OFF the court: 105.5


Give me the player who helps his team offensively over the player who helps himself offensively.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

If Famar has the right attitude, he can be more valuable imo.

And if my uncle had a pussy, he'd be my aunt.

[DPG21920]

Lakers offensive efficiency rating w/ Brown ON the court: 115.9
Lakers offensive efficiency rating w/ Brown OFF the court: 113.8

Lakers defensive efficiency rating w/ Brown ON the court: 101.1
Lakers defensive efficiency rating w/ Brown OFF the court: 105.7

Lakers offensive efficiency rating w/ Farmar ON the court: 107.1
Lakers offensive efficiency rating w/ Farmar OFF the court: 116.8

Lakers defensive efficiency rating w/ Farmar ON the court: 105.5
Lakers defensive efficiency rating w/ Farmar OFF the court: 105.5


Give me the player who helps his team offensively over the player who helps himself offensively.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=5&season=22008&split=9&team=Lakers

Farmar was on the Lakers "Best 5 Lineup" before Brown was. Look at the +/-

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=5&season=22008&split=9&team=Lakers

Farmar was on the Lakers "Best 5 Lineup" before Brown was. Look at the +/-


OK cool, so the fact the best lineup w/ Farmar > the best lineup w/ Brown negates everything else?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Look at the +/-


Naturally the +/- of the best lineup someone takes part in is gonna be good.

When you factor in everything though, it's as obvious as it gets that they're a better team offensively when Farmar is out of the game.

[DPG21920]

It shows you that Farmar was just as effective if not more. Fact is the Lakers had a better point differential with a lineup of:

Farmar, Kobe, Ariza, Odom and Gasol than they did with a comparable line ups with Brown. This is true for other combo's as well.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

It shows you that Farmar was just as effective if not more. Fact is the Lakers had a better point differential with a lineup of:

Farmar, Kobe, Ariza, Odom and Gasol than they did with a comparable line ups with Brown. This is true for other combo's as well.


But why don't you include every other lineup with Farmar? Why are those irrelevant?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

It shows you that Farmar was just as effective if not more. Fact is the Lakers had a better point differential with a lineup of:

Farmar, Kobe, Ariza, Odom and Gasol than they did with a comparable line ups with Brown. This is true for other combo's as well.

Fact: The Lakers score 9 points less per 100 possessions when Farmar is on the court than when he is off the court. Is that not true?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Fact is the Lakers had a better point differential with a lineup of:

Farmar, Kobe, Ariza, Odom and Gasol than they did with a comparable line ups with Brown.


Yes, but that's only cause of minute differential.

The lineup of Farmer, Bryant, Ariza, Odom and Gasol outscored its opponent by 39 points in 142 minutes.

The lineup of Brown, Bryant, Walton, Odom and Gasol outscored its oppoent by 18 points in 28 minutes.

What's better? Outscoring your opponent by 18 points in 28 minutes, or by 39 points in 142 minutes?

[Def Rowe]

You can't really compare Farmar's and Brown"s PER. SB hardly got any minutes with the Lakers last season.

Shannon Brown is still a bit of a prospect, but a damn good one.

NpHYf_ry4Dw

[duncan228]

How the Lakers Keep Farmar Happy (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=tsn-howthelakerskeepfarm&prov=tsn&type=lgns)
SportingNews

Wait! Stop the canoes! Did Jordan Farmar just make a trade demand … from Singapore, of all places?

From the Canadian Press:

"I want to run a team and be the lead guard," Farmar said Tuesday on the sidelines of a basketball clinic in Singapore. "Hopefully, it can be here (with the Lakers). There's a lot of jobs out there. I feel I have a lot to offer."

Bombshell, right? Farmar may not be as consistent as the Lakers, or he, would like. And certainly injuries have figured into that. But there's no question he brings a nice combination of physical gifts and braininess to the table. Since this is supposedly a league of PGs now, it's a good time to be Jordan Farmar.

Now, pay attention, fan, fellow writers, less hallowed organizations, and anyone else with spare time, a team to run, or the urge to find a story here. What came next sheds a lot of light on what separates champions from the rest of you. Or us. Or them. Or something. Anyway, read on:

"I've talked to Mitch a bunch of times and he says he's got a ton of offers and didn't consider trading me. It's just you have to entertain all the offers you get. Since I haven't got traded, it means they want me here."

"Derek's had a great run. He's probably going to be the guy starting off. I just want to continue to push him."

What allowed the Celtics to win 500 titles in a row back before electricity was that they often incubated starters. The old guys took their last victory and by then, the young'un was chomping at the bit and more eager than ever to play like vets. They've paid dues, but had their egos stroked by coaches and management at the same time.

So Farmar knows he can be a starter. But Mitch doesn't want to trade him. Why is he cool with that? Because he respects Fisher, and knows that when the time comes, he'll be awarded that spot because not only could he be the man for someone—the best team in basketball wants him as their starting PG.

Simple, and yet deadly effective. That's the political capital of making the Finals one year, then winning a ring, then being in a good position to repeat. Teams worry about losing their personnel. The trick is to keep them feeling included, assuaged, and hungry.

[Chieflion]

How the Lakers Keep Farmar Happy (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=tsn-howthelakerskeepfarm&prov=tsn&type=lgns)
SportingNews

Wait! Stop the canoes! Did Jordan Farmar just make a trade demand … from Singapore, of all places?

From the Canadian Press:

"I want to run a team and be the lead guard," Farmar said Tuesday on the sidelines of a basketball clinic in Singapore. "Hopefully, it can be here (with the Lakers). There's a lot of jobs out there. I feel I have a lot to offer."

Bombshell, right? Farmar may not be as consistent as the Lakers, or he, would like. And certainly injuries have figured into that. But there's no question he brings a nice combination of physical gifts and braininess to the table. Since this is supposedly a league of PGs now, it's a good time to be Jordan Farmar.

Now, pay attention, fan, fellow writers, less hallowed organizations, and anyone else with spare time, a team to run, or the urge to find a story here. What came next sheds a lot of light on what separates champions from the rest of you. Or us. Or them. Or something. Anyway, read on:

"I've talked to Mitch a bunch of times and he says he's got a ton of offers and didn't consider trading me. It's just you have to entertain all the offers you get. Since I haven't got traded, it means they want me here."

"Derek's had a great run. He's probably going to be the guy starting off. I just want to continue to push him."

What allowed the Celtics to win 500 titles in a row back before electricity was that they often incubated starters. The old guys took their last victory and by then, the young'un was chomping at the bit and more eager than ever to play like vets. They've paid dues, but had their egos stroked by coaches and management at the same time.

So Farmar knows he can be a starter. But Mitch doesn't want to trade him. Why is he cool with that? Because he respects Fisher, and knows that when the time comes, he'll be awarded that spot because not only could he be the man for someone—the best team in basketball wants him as their starting PG.

Simple, and yet deadly effective. That's the political capital of making the Finals one year, then winning a ring, then being in a good position to repeat. Teams worry about losing their personnel. The trick is to keep them feeling included, assuaged, and hungry.
Is he mad? Why is he saying this crap in my hometown? The only reason he is not traded yet cause he sucks and no one wants him.

[23LeBronJames23]

And if my uncle had a pussy, he'd be my aunt.

and if u wouldnt be an asshole u wouldnt write that^

[Sdayi135]

Naturally the +/- of the best lineup someone takes part in is gonna be good.

When you factor in everything though, it's as obvious as it gets that they're a better team offensively when Farmar is out of the game.

Which is why +/- isn't necessarily reliable in terms of individual impact.

[2Cleva]

Farmar shot himself in the foot with every other word there.

Talking about playing elsewhere, mentioning other trade offers, saying its tough to play with Kobe and on a good team.

So long, Jordan.

http://top-10-list.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Dumbo.jpg

[LakeShow]

I'm glad he came out with this statement. Forces the Lakers to make a move now.

I never thought that he was the point guard of the future for the Lakers.
Brown is a better fit than Farmer. Farmer just makes too many boneheaded mistakes for my liking. Make a move Mitch.

[Culburn369]

Christ, they hand that PG job to Smush Parker (sight unseen) for two fuckin' years of sheer agony, but, yet they won't give Farmar a straight shot. I can't reconcile it.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I never thought that he was the point guard of the future for the Lakers.
Brown is a better fit than Farmer. Farmer just makes too many boneheaded mistakes for my liking.


Exactly. One of the main success points of the triangle is it limits the amount of dumb mistakes and turnovers from the PG position. Phil Jackson isn't looking for a PG who loves making high risk, high reward decisions.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Christ, they hand that PG job to Smush Parker (sight unseen) for two fuckin' years of sheer agony, but, yet they won't give Farmar a straight shot. I can't reconcile it.


If Derek Fisher was on LA in 2006 and 2007, Smush wouldn't have had the starting job. We both know that.

They just won a championship with Fisher as the starter. Yeah, Fisher's weaknesses made your Houston series a lot tougher than it had to be, but if Farmar is playing instead of Fisher, they maybe beat Houston in 5 or 6 instead of 7, but then in the next series, Denver undoubtedly forces a game 7 and possibly wins because of the huge series Billups has on Farmar, whereas he had a lack luster series against Fisher. For all the bitching you guys do about Fisher, he's won more championships than any other active PG. You want players like him who only want to win, not players like Farmar who whine about playing on a good team because it's harder for him to get points.

If LA trades Farmar and gives all his minutes to Brown,

[Culburn369]

Parker getting that position like he did and Farmar not getting the opportunity is political. We're not privy to the nuts & bolts of it, but, it does not sit well with me. Before Jackson dumps Farmar I would hope he'd be given a open shot at that PG position. I just believe Jackson has already made of his mind and once that happens, it's over.

[2Cleva]

Parker getting that position like he did and Farmar not getting the opportunity is political. We're not privy to the nuts & bolts of it, but, it does not sit well with me. Before Jackson dumps Farmar I would hope he'd be given a open shot at that PG position. I just believe Jackson has already made of his mind and once that happens, it's over.

Political? Farmar was a rookie iirc.

If you're not a tall defender or a dead-eye shooter you get no love from Phil at the PG spot. Always been that way, always will.

Shannon may be the best of both, Farmar is clearly the worse of both.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

If you're not a tall defender or a dead-eye shooter you get no love from Phil at the PG spot. Always been that way, always will.


"that way" has won 10 championships, so I wouldn't be bitching about it if I were Cubby.

[Muser]

Lol Farmar baically telling the greatest NBA coach of all time he doesn't know what's best for his team.

[Baseline]

Farmar should definitely start on the all-alien team.

Farmar and Sam Cassell at guards, Popeye Jones, Cadillac Anderson and George Muresan on the front line.

[21_Blessings]

If, Denver undoubtedly forces a game 7 and possibly wins because of the huge series Billups has on Farmar, whereas he had a lack luster series against Fisher.

No that wouldn't have happened. While Farmar's defense is horrid, Derek Fisher is just as bad with worse lateral quickness. One of the worst defenders in the league.

Besides that, JR Smith was torching Fisher in crunch time in a couple of those games. Farmar playing that series wouldn't have changed anything besides him making the offense more dynamic.

[bostonguy]

"that way" has won 10 championships, so I wouldn't be bitching about it if I were Cubby.

That is why I have been saying that Shannon Brown fits LA much much better than Farmar does. Brown is 6'4, strong and athletic, and can shoot the 3 ball. Farmar may thrive more in another system. That remains to be seen. However in Phil Jacksons triangle O,Brown>>>>>>>Farmar.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

While Farmar's defense is horrid, Derek Fisher is just as bad with worse lateral quickness.


I know, but Fisher matches up a lot better with Billups than Farmar does. If Farmar is guarding him, Billups can post up at will.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Farmar playing that series wouldn't have changed anything besides him making the offense more dynamic.


The stats clearly show LA's offense is better with Farmar off the court than with Farmar on the court.

[Culburn369]

Christ, DUNCAN and his never ending love affair with statistics.

Phil gave Parker a two year free ride for reasons that to this day mystify me. He is not a professional basketball player, but, yet he was granted that job without nary a question ever being raised at the time, or, since. Yet, he won't give Farmar a block of time to prove himself.

[iggypop123]

he talks the talk, i wish he would walk it

[Culburn369]

he talks the talk, i wish he would walk it

Give him a similar opportunity that was granted on to Parker. Doesn't have to be the same two year no questions asked opportunity Smush received,,,just the first two months of the '10 season.

Phil will never do it. He's already written him off, put him in the cornfield.

[Culburn369]

Don't you think he should first learn top be a solid back-up?

Proper protocol in the NBA as in other professional sports was abandoned long ago. "deserves" has nothing to do with it.

[TJastal]

I sure hope the lakers get rid of Farmar, as he has been one of their biggest bench sparks and overall pains in the ass for opposing teams the past 3-4 years.

Brown maybe better for the starting lineup and Phil Jackson's triangle, but they are going to miss Farmar's instant offense off the bench, to which I believe he could carve out a niche for himself on that team, especially since Fisher's days are coming to an end soon.

Problem is, he thought he was going to heir apparent to Fisher, and it looks like Brown has now laid claim to that. Poor lakers. Losing Farmar will be another HUGE gash in the their long term future (along with losing Ariza).

As it stands the lakers have a 2-3 year window where they will compete for championships, then Fisher/Kobe/Odom/Artest/Gasol will all be hitting their low to upper 30's and will have to be augmented with talented youngsters from which the lakers reservoir will be empty.

[Culburn369]

As it stands the lakers have a 2-3 year window where they will compete for championships

Sight unseen, TJ, I'd settle for that, thank you.

[Sotongball21]

The article's from Singapore? that's a first. lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Christ, DUNCAN and his never ending love affair with statistics.

Phil gave Parker a two year free ride for reasons that to this day mystify me. He is not a professional basketball player, but, yet he was granted that job without nary a question ever being raised at the time, or, since. Yet, he won't give Farmar a block of time to prove himself.


Smush Parker got two years because there were no better options. It's not like Phil Jackson chose Smush Parker from a pool of PG's where he had way better options.

And that stat I posted gives evidence that's pretty much indisputable that Farmar fucks up the triangle and makes the team worse offensively. Call it a love for statistics, but it's a telling stat.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

And actually Smush wasn't quite given a two year free ride. Two games before the regular season ended in 2007, Phil had it with him and benched him. Farmar started every playoff game that year.

[2Cleva]

Stats aren't needed to see that. DUNCANownsKOBE is on point in this one.

[Culburn369]

Smush Parker got two years because there were no better options. It's not like Phil Jackson chose Smush Parker from a pool of PG's where he had way better options.

Anybody would've been more serviceable than Smush Parker. He was an unmitigated disaster. I'm confident there were waiver wire PG materiel available at the time, but, Jackson had made the choice of Parker and nothing was going to change his mind. You can bet that when Kobe went after Buss the name Smush Parker was bandied about plenty.

So, if Parker can get that kind of unfettered opportunity to fail over a two year period, then Farmar deserves a like opportunity now. Not two years of failure like Parker received, but, two months to sink or swim.

[hater]

LOL comparing Farmar to Parker

[z0sa]

all 3 of them will be getting torched.

[in2deep]

all 3 of them will be getting torched.

:lol

so true

[Culburn369]

Hey, when you bozonuts can dispose of the Mavs then you'll have room to squawk.

+ it'll help ya's immensely when you go back-to-back. You look puny & weak without the repeats, squirts.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

So, if Parker can get that kind of unfettered opportunity to fail over a two year period, then Farmar deserves a like opportunity now. Not two years of failure like Parker received, but, two months to sink or swim.


In theory there wouldn't be a problem with that.....but why change what just won it all?

And I wouldn't call it an "unfettered opportunity to fail", after one season with Smush, they pushed hard to get Sam Cassell, that woulda been the end of Smush. I understand you're frustration, Smush was so bad that he enabled Nash to run around and double team not having to worry about "guarding" anyone, my problem with what you're saying is you act like they were willing to sink or swim with Smush, when I don't think Phil ever had any long term plans involving Smush.

[Culburn369]

In theory there wouldn't be a problem with that.....but why change what just won it all?

And I wouldn't call it an "unfettered opportunity to fail", after one season with Smush, they pushed hard to get Sam Cassell, that woulda been the end of Smush. I understand you're frustration, Smush was so bad that he enabled Nash to run around and double team not having to worry about "guarding" anyone, my problem with what you're saying is you act like they were willing to sink or swim with Smush, when I don't think Phil ever had any long term plans involving Smush.

It was two years of Smush, DUNCAN, not one. And two years is "long term" in the NBA scheme of things. Parker had no business being anywhere near an NBA court.

And I'd like an accounting of the whole f'in fiasco. Was it Kupchak? Was it Phil? We sank two straight years primarily because of Smush.

[Culburn369]

In theory there wouldn't be a problem with that.....but why change what just won it all?

Because Fisher's tank is on empty. Give Farmar his chance to fail. If he does, then we'll know. If he prospers then we're fortified with him starting and Fisher held in reserve. But, Farmar is deserving of a legitimate shot (like Parker got) from the beginning of a season, not once the playoffs start like in his rookie season.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

It was two years of Smush, DUNCAN, not one. And two years is "long term" in the NBA scheme of things. Parker had no business being anywhere near an NBA court.

And I'd like an accounting of the whole f'in fiasco. Was it Kupchak? Was it Phil? We sank two straight years primarily because of Smush.

I know it was two years, I'm saying the only reason it wasn't one year is cause they couldn't pry Cassell away from the Clippers, he was extremely close to signing with the Lakers. The off season they signed Smush, they tried extremely hard to move up to #3 in the draft to get Deron Williams. Smush clearly wasn't their first choice. They were by no means content with Smush, but they weren't about to give a mediocre PG a long term MLE contract merely cause he's better than Smush, when they would still have no shot at contending. We both know that they had no shot in hell at contending those two years with Smush, and those reasons went far beyond Smush.

[Culburn369]

We both know that they had no shot in hell at contending those two years with Smush, and those reasons went far beyond Smush.

In raw theory, yes, "they had no shot in hell at contending those two years with Smush"---but, any time you have Bryant, in conjunction with no powerhouse in evidence, then you have (a chance). Anything can happen at any time. Bryant knew that...though he did forsake it when he quit in Game 7.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

In raw theory, yes, "they had no shot in hell at contending those two years with Smush"---but, any time you have Bryant, in conjunction with no powerhouse in evidence, then you have (a chance). Anything can happen at any time. Bryant knew that...though he did forsake it when he quit in Game 7.

I somewhat get where you're coming from there since the 2006 Heat and 2007 Spurs would get chewed up and spit out by almost all other championship teams in recent history.......but no team starting Luke Walton at SF and Kwame Brown at center is winning shit.

[Culburn369]

I somewhat get where you're coming from there since the 2006 Heat and 2007 Spurs would get chewed up and spit out by almost all other championship teams in recent history.......but no team starting Luke Walton at SF and Kwame Brown at center is winning shit.

True, and let's face it, admittedly I wanted to beat the Suns those years. That in and of itself would've been tantamount to an NBA Championship to me personally. So my beliefs in this event are clouded & skewed. I wanted to beat them so badly and Smush Parker was the chief reason why I couldn't. It psychological with me I think.

And yer right: Walton & Brown aren't starting materiel. Phil tried a similar bent with Brown that he'd tried with Parker= treat him like "a star" and he'll possibly rise to the occasion. Christ, I remember in '07 they were posting that Brown up time & again like he was something. The poor thing was in so deep over his head.

I just wish before they jettison Farmar they'd grant him similar treatment.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

True, and let's face it, admittedly I wanted to beat the Suns those years. That in and of itself would've been tantamount to an NBA Championship to me personally. So my beliefs in this event are clouded & skewed. I wanted to beat them so badly and Smush Parker was the chief reason why I couldn't. It psychological with me I think.

And yer right: Walton & Brown aren't starting materiel. Phil tried a similar bent with Brown that he'd tried with Parker= treat him like "a star" and he'll possibly rise to the occasion. Christ, I remember in '07 they were posting that Brown up time & again like he was something. The poor thing was in so deep over his head.

I just wish before they jettison Farmar they'd grant him similar treatment.

Here's the thing, Smush Parker did nothing to earn this two year window you keep referring to, and Jordan Farmar has done nothing to earn the right to start, he's actually given Phil reason to believe letting him start would be a bad idea. Two wrongs don't make a right, Smush getting an undeserved chance to start doesn't mean Farmar should.

For 4 years, Fish did his job as a backup. He didn't bitch, he didn't play selfishly, he played within himself. In 2000, he knew that even though he might be younger and better than Ron Harper, Ron Harper has proven himself and Phil isn't about to put him in over a PG who he knew he could trust. In 2001, once Harper's body broke down, Fisher got the chance to start once he was healthy after 4 years of doing his job as a reliable backup. That's the mentality Farmar should have.

[Culburn369]

For 4 years, Fish did his job as a backup. He didn't bitch, he didn't play selfishly, he played within himself. In 2000, he knew that even though he might be younger and better than Ron Harper, Ron Harper has proven himself and Phil isn't about to put him in over a PG who he knew he could trust. In 2001, once Harper's body broke down, Fisher got the chance to start once he was healthy after 4 years of doing his job as a reliable backup. That's the mentality Farmar should have.

Yer talking about 10 years ago. That's a different NBA, different players, different "rules", different code of conduct. That horse has already left the barn. It will do you no good to shut the barn door now. Similar to the Rubio situation: everybody wants Rubio to "do what's right" when he's been taught that doing it "wrong" will net him his goal. Now we want Farmar to follow the model set by Fisher when Farmar sees a different model being used today that shortcuts to the finish line. Like the steriods use in sports. How long can the honest players hold out while the cheaters are taking the jobs because they're cheating?

[2Cleva]

10 years or not, its the same mentality Shannon Brown had.

And players have used steroids in sports ever since steroids were invented.

Culburn369 - you're trying too hard to be right. You're wrong. Just admit it and move on.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

10 years or not, its the same mentality Shannon Brown had.


And even though he is right that tons of players have the same horrid sense of entitlement Farmar has, you don't see coaches that are perennial winners putting up with their shit, and you NEVER see them giving into their demands.

[picc84]

I say let cut Fish's minutes but let him start and end games, and give Farmar the majority of the minutes he'd normally be playing, followed by Shannon. I just want him to have an opportunity to fail or succeed in his contract year, if he doesnt rise to the occasion, go back to the regular rotation. But give him the chance.

[Culburn369]

10 years or not, its the same mentality Shannon Brown had.

Whoa! Shannon Brown has served no apprenticeship in Los Angeles. Farmar has served 3 years. Give him a legit shot before you toss him out the door.

[Culburn369]

I say let cut Fish's minutes but let him start and end games, and give Farmar the majority of the minutes he'd normally be playing, followed by Shannon. I just want him to have an opportunity to fail or succeed in his contract year, if he doesnt rise to the occasion, go back to the regular rotation. But give him the chance.

Thank, you.

Except I'd let Farmar start & end the games until he's made his mark, good OR bad.

[Culburn369]

To me Brown is not to be considered in this equation as a viable option. This is Farmar and Fisher finding their consideration as the starter & backup respectively. Why should Brown be granted on?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Whoa! Shannon Brown has served no apprenticeship in Los Angeles. Farmar has served 3 years


Being paid millions to play basketball isn't "serving anything". In 3 years, Farmar has played for LA, collected money, and has done nothing to become a better player than he was his rookie year.

[nkdlunch]

all 3 of them will be getting torched.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Why should Brown be granted on?


Cause he was effective in the playoffs. Also, I don't know why people are so sure Farmar is a naturally more talented player than Brown.

They were taken back to back in the same draft (Brown going first), when Farmar probably wouldn't have been a 1st round pick if not for a UCLA March Madness run that inflated his draft value.

[Culburn369]

Cause he was effective in the playoffs.

In trace exposure.

[2Cleva]

The fact that Shannon Brown was able to crack the PG rotation in the tri even though he was in LA only a couple of months and get playoff PT in every critical game shows how hard he had to work and how Farmar wasn't cutting it.

This is Phil, who values the triangle over everything, especially defense.

Brown talking about how easy the offense was because he knew his role compared to Farmar bitching about it tells the entire story.

Farmar could be a good NBA player but not in LA under the present circumstances.

[Culburn369]

Farmar could be a good NBA player but not in LA under the present circumstances.

That's the easy answer.

[LakeShow]

Being paid millions to play basketball isn't "serving anything". In 3 years, Farmar has played for LA, collected money, and has done nothing to become a better player than he was his rookie year.

I agree with this. Farmar had the opportunity to work on his weakness and fit in with the triangle. He had his chance already and it's not working. He's too small, he's too much like a shoot first PG, and he still makes terrible decisions. No disrespect to other Lakers fans but he had the opportunity to shine and he failed. Time to move on.

[Culburn369]

Farmar has never been given a solid sampling of continuous games in which to prove himself. It just has not happened. I'm sure there are reasons we're not privy to. And there is "office politics" as well. I don't blame him for stating his case. It's the way things are done now in professional sports, across the spectrum. If it's ok for everyone else (albeit not a Laker) to air their dirty laundry then it should be hunky & dory for Farmar to hang & air his as well.

[ginobili's bald spot]

Bullshit. Farmar has been given plenty of opportunities to prove himself. And he has proven himself to be a selfish player who's ego is a lot bigger than his game. He makes bonehead plays by trying to do way too much instead of playing within the team game. When the coaching staff tries to tell him something he yells at them and gives attitude like a little bitch ass diva. This dumbo lookin motherfucker thinks he's a star when he's nothing but a scrub. That's why Brown is going to take all of his minutes.

[Culburn369]

bald, off on a tangent.

[Mori Chu]

I think they should start Farmar. He was amazing a couple of years ago, but then he took a major step back. There are just some guys like that in the NBA where they have to be healthy and have to have the team's vote of confidence, and then they start playing great ball. But you can't just bring them in off the bench and yank them around and expect commensurate production.

Fisher is a walking corpse, and Brown is fool's gold. Farmar has legit skills and is experienced enough to run the offense. Start him.

[Culburn369]

and Brown is fool's gold.

See, what'd I tell ya: Sun's Fandom is the most knowledgeable & experienced in NBA arts & letters. It's the damnest thing I've ever seen.

[Culburn369]

Farmar played so horrible last season, if it wasn't for Sasha, Farmar would've been the one getting booed. Now he should start?

Uh, oh, Luva is back from his vacation and he just threw a turd into my pool!

[anonoftheinternets]

Brown was desperate to prove himself last year. Just like farmar/vujacic was desperate a couple of years back. They always settle down to their true potential.

[DPG21920]

See, what'd I tell ya: Sun's Fandom is the most knowledgeable & experienced in NBA arts & letters. It's the damnest thing I've ever seen.

I said Farmar over Brown first. I am a Spurs fan. But who knows, a lot will depend on next year.

Famar is the better player, but if he does not play his best, or has an attitude problem and Brown steps up, it will be Browns.

If they both suck, then.......

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Fisher is a walking corpse, and Brown is fool's gold.


So the 25th pick in the draft is fool's gold, and the 26th pick in the draft is starter's material? I don't understand that logic.

[Culburn369]

Fartmar

:rollin

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I love these elementary, yet hilarious nicknames Lakaluva comes up with (Fartmar, Dick Jefferson :lol)

[Culburn369]

I love these elementary, yet hilarious nicknames Lakaluva comes up with (Fartmar, Dick Jefferson :lol)

Yep, they're peaches!

[Mori Chu]

I never understood the fascination with that Brown guy among Laker fans. He'd come in, with the crowd fully begging him to play passable ball, and he'd have 25,000 volts of adrenaline in his veins, hoping he could deliver for them. He played hard and did ... okay. But I never once saw the guy and thought, "This guy is a rotation NBA player for a championship team."

Farmar, on the other hand, ... early in that one season, I think it was 2 seasons ago, he just came out like gangbusters. He was leading that team, destroying everybody. Had crazy speed, his shot needed to be respected; he gave that team a legitimate edge and scared the living hell out of me as a Laker hater. But then he faded. I forget why, exactly; nagging injury, or being in the coach's doghouse, something. Haven't seen him play quite the same way since.

I guess my point is, I've seen both these gents' ceilings, and Farmar's is ridiculously higher than Brown's. Farmar is the truly valuable player here. If you don't want him, me and my Suns would be happy to take him off your grubby Laker hands, gargantuan ears and all.

[Culburn369]

And if you notice Brown is a little bug-eyed. I wonder what's that all about.

[iggypop123]

farmar wasnt the same after being hurt. you can only hope that was the reason for the downfall

[spursncowboys]

It's a shame Farmar has that thing going against him. What's it called...Thats right-talent

[Muser]

All I remember is him coming back and torching the Spurs, then he just dropped of the radar.

[Culburn369]

He's in Phil's doghouse. & I don't know of anybody who's ever emerged from there.

[2Cleva]

He's in Phil's doghouse. & I don't know of anybody who's ever emerged from there.

Name anyone who has ever deserved to.

[Culburn369]

Name anyone who has ever deserved to.

Glen Rice.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Glen Rice.


After the stunt Glen Rice pulled deciding to complain about his touches in the NBA finals, he was lucky there's a trade deadline, cause he shoulda been traded right there and lost out on his ring.

[Killakobe81]

I dont think anyone's saying Shannon is more talented than Jordan. He clearly is not. But his skillset and attitude is right for the triangle defense. He plays defense, can hit the open 3, and has a humble demeanor. Farmar is better at creating his own shot and making plays for teammates, but those are a lower premium for us since the ball is in Kobe's hands on the perimeter most of the time, as Jordan said.

I'd like us to run some more traditional sets so that he can develop and showcase how good he can be, since I think that would also begin to get Kobe easier looks with the ball out of his hands a little more and perhaps increase his efficiency. Plus, I like Farmar. I've followed him for a while and he's a good kid, regardless of whether he's a little cocky or not. I want him to succeed and to be able to flourish if he can prove he's good enough to do it.

Pure talent and skills wise, Jordan is the best PG on our team. We all know that doesn't make you the best player though, so i'm hoping his maturity develops this upcoming season so he can maximize that talent without wasting it on poor decision-making and laziness on defense.

Shannon took much less money to stay with us when he had a great offer from Indy. I'd love to say I think Jordan would do the same but I can't, so I just hope he develops enough this season that PJ gives him enough room to play and grow so that he feels like he wants to remain a Laker.

If not, he'll be leaving town and i'll wish him the best.

I'd love for Kobe to not be the only playmaker in the backcourt anymore though.

Im not a big PEr fan people get too wrapped up in stats. But I do agre with the above Farmar is trhe best PG on the team the offense is just a bad fit.
Farmar is not as good as he THINKS he is ...but the Lakers have failed to use his strengths as well. anytime he is allowed to run and get out in transition he does well and is a good drive and dish player and underrated finisher. If he does truly want to be a Laker he NEEDS to improve his defense, (though it's not horrible, and his standstill jumphot) his decision making is just crappy cuz he tries too hard ...

[Culburn369]

After the stunt Glen Rice pulled deciding to complain about his touches in the NBA finals, he was lucky there's a trade deadline, cause he shoulda been traded right there and lost out on his ring.

Nonsense.