Jerry Krause: MJ And I Still Aren't Close

[duncan228]

Jerry Krause: MJ And I Still Aren't Close
Sorting fact from friction (http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2009/09/06/sorting_fact_from_friction/?page=full)
By Frank Dell'Apa

Jerry Krause was among the major factors in the success of the Chicago Bulls, building a team around Michael Jordan that would win six NBA championships. But Krause will not be going to Springfield for Jordan’s Basketball Hall of Fame induction this week, and not because of animosity toward Jordan.

Krause, the Bulls general manager from 1985-2003, resigned from the Hall of Fame selection committee several years ago over a conflict with the selection process and vowed “not to go into the building’’ unless former Chicago assistant coach Tex Winter was inducted.

“I don’t have a great desire to be there,’’ Krause said.

Krause said he agreed with Bob Cousy, who objected to the secrecy of the process and absence of those he considered worthy candidates and resigned as chairman of the selection committee in the early ’90s.

But some friction remains in the Krause-Jordan relationship, in stark contrast with Krause’s feelings toward another inductee, Utah coach Jerry Sloan. In fact, Krause said he might be tempted to attend if he were contacted by Sloan, whom Krause scouted in his Baltimore Bullets days in the early ’60s.

“If Michael called, no,’’ Krause said. “If Jerry called me, that would be a tough one. But the answer is no.’’

Krause contends that Winter’s triangle offense was crucial to the success of the Bulls and also helped bring out the best in Jordan. In fact, Winter was a Phil Jackson assistant for all six of the Bulls’ NBA championships and for three of the Jackson’s NBA titles with the Lakers.

“I think when we hired Phil to be head coach and Tex was already there with the triangle, Michael found out he could score in ways he never dreamed of scoring,’’ Krause said. “Michael ended up being the best-scoring point guard ever.’’

Krause and Jordan sometimes disagreed on player acquisitions. Krause said Jordan wanted to select Joe Wolf in the ’87 draft, but the Bulls went with Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant.

“I did consult Michael and Scottie on [Dennis] Rodman,’’ Krause said. “I asked them if they had a big problem with it. But, no, they couldn’t have vetoed it.’’

Krause joined the Bulls during Jordan’s rookie season, replacing Rod Thorn as GM.

“We had Michael and 11 guys I didn’t want,’’ Krause said. “We didn’t know how good Michael was going to be - nobody knew. He improved year by year.’’

Krause was concerned that Jordan’s eagerness to play while injured could have deleterious effects. After Jordan broke his navicular bone in ’85, four doctors recommended he not play.

“Michael was very mad about it,’’ Krause said. “I told him, ‘I’m not going to let you play. You have a long career ahead of you and the navicular bone is the toughest to get blood to - very few athletes recover from that injury.’ He said I just cared about getting into the lottery and I said, ‘I care about your health.’ ’’

Krause wished the Bulls dynasty had a “happy family’’ image similar to the one created by Red Auerbach with the Celtics.

“We were not close, and we’re not close today,’’ Krause said of Jordan. “And that’s fine. I read [Bill] Russell on Red and it was a great book. We had the same success but not the same relationship.

“I don’t know if it was adversarial. We were both stubborn and both had our minds made up about the game. We would needle each other. I’d say, ‘That move last night, you’ve got a ways to go before you catch [Earl] Monroe.’ And he would say, ‘That [expletive] Monroe.’ After he retired the first time, I told him he was better than Monroe.

“He was a total professional in every sense. He really understood what it meant to be a professional. He could have been real difficult about contracts but he wasn’t.’’

[alamo50]

Interesting read.

[baseline bum]

Freaking Krause tried to blow that team up after the 96 championship by trading Pippen, which is one of the main reasons Jordan started playing on one year contracts.

[Pero]

Krause and Jordan sometimes disagreed on player acquisitions. Krause said Jordan wanted to select Joe Wolf in the ’87 draft, but the Bulls went with Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant.


How lucky for the Bulls that they didn't let Jordan get his way. :rollin

[Culburn369]

Good to see this story unfold. We were told Jordan's side for so many, many years. Krause was high tech lynched. Shame.

[Chieflion]

This is the idiot who wanted to trade Scottie Pippen for Shawn Crackhead Kemp and the following year, wants to ship him to Toronto for Tracy McGrady when they have the green light to win a championship.

[Chillen]

As a Bulls fan I have a love/hate vibe for Krause. He has to be given some credit for the championships, on the other hand his reign there as GM ended miserably. Breaking up the team to rebuild in 1999 and hiring Tim Floyd to replace Phil Jackson. Giving the new coach nothing to rebuild with and ruining his NBA career as a head coach, trading Toni Kukoc for John Starks who didn't want to even suit up as a Chicago Bull, as previous posters mentioned wanting to trade Pip for Kemp and trade him later for Tmac despite the championship prospects.

Bottom line, once he broke the dynasty up he self imploded as the Bulls GM.

[Chillen]

That dynasty had run its course. The Spurs and Lakers were prime.

Yep. I agree. The Bulls would have lost to both the 99' Spurs and 00' Lakers. Duncan and Robinson would have been to much for them, and a prime Kobe and Shaq just to much. It would have been very close (6 or 7 games) but they would have lost.

[JamStone]

How lucky for the Bulls that they didn't let Jordan get his way. :rollin

How unlucky for the Wizards and the Bobcats that he got his way with Kwame Brown, Jerry Stackhouse, and Adam Morrison among other player acquisitions.

[Mori Chu]

Was it Krause who traded Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler? Or was that a Paxson special?

[Hornets1]

Growing Up as a bulls fanatic, I hated Jerry Krause. He wanted to break up the Phil Jackson/MJ Combo, which was downright retarded. Phil Jackson is arguably the best coach ever and Jordan is handsdown the best player ever.

[Culburn369]

Growing Up as a bulls fanatic, I hated Jerry Krause.

That's because Media demonized Krause, and you, being a sheep lapped it up.

[Hornets1]

That's because Media demonized Krause, and you, being a sheep lapped it up.

Yea, I'm not an insider and the media is/was pretty much all I have to go by in some cases; this was one of them.

BTW, I'm 24 and have been a basketball junkie all my life. I was around 5 when I started watching basketball(the bulls and MJ in 1989). I stopped being a bulls fan when we got the Hornets.

I know we don't agree on much Culburn, but calling me a sheep for believing that wasn't necessary. I would have taken alot more from your comment if you would have just said "Thats b/c the media demonized Krause." Don't get me wrong, I will take you for your word, esp. b/c it doesn't seem far-fetched whatsoever. Just try to be civil about it. Discussion is alot more effective than arguement. I was 5 when I started Idolizing MJ and when your young, you don't know these type of things. I learned when I was older of about all of MJ's gambling and cheating on his spouse ways. This is one of the things I haven't heard discussed since I have been of age to "understand it all."

Not trying to sound condescending towards you whatsoever, just state the fact and wait till I make an uneducated(or usually not) after the fact to start name-calling

[tlongII]

Krause was a fucking idiot. He broke up the Bulls dynasty which was inexcusable. It doesn't matter if they could or could not have won another one. They at least deserved a chance.

[Chillen]

Krause was a fucking idiot. He broke up the Bulls dynasty which was inexcusable. It doesn't matter if they could or could not have won another one. They at least deserved a chance.

Exactly. They would have probably lost to the Spurs, but the Eastern Conference that year had an 8th seed reach the NBA finals to face Duncan and Robinson's Spurs in the lockout shortened season. If Phil Jackson had won one with the Bulls that season I guarantee he would defend to death any asterisk remarks. Many people think it was time to end the dynasty but Jordan, Kukoc, Rodman and Pip were still going strong years later. They had after 1998 a legit 4 year window to try and win it all again, than I could see the reason to break them up and rebuild.

[Culburn369]

Krause was a fucking idiot. He broke up the Bulls dynasty which was inexcusable.

Complete horseshit.

[Kermit]

After watching Jordan perform an abortion on the Washington franchise, I can't see how anyone can ever take his side in the feud with Fat Jerry when it comes to managing a basketball team. The man took Kwame Brown with the number one pick.

[Culburn369]

After watching Jordan perform an abortion on the Washington franchise, I can't see how anyone can ever take his side in the feud with Fat Jerry

Because that "Fat Jerry" was one of the primary ways in which Krause was cast down. He was fat, white, homely, successful. They strapped that f'er to the post and whipped his ass mercilessly. Who'd want to stop them? He was the perfect patsy. They'd always include the unflattering photos of him looking like a fat slob. He tripled twice/like Jordan--but, that had no bearing on his station.

[baseline bum]

Because that "Fat Jerry" was one of the primary ways in which Krause was cast down. He was fat, white, homely, successful. They strapped that f'er to the post and whipped his ass mercilessly. Who'd want to stop them? He was the perfect patsy. They'd always include the unflattering photos of him looking like a fat slob. He tripled twice/like Jordan--but, that had no bearing on his station.

Fat Jerry was a narcissist who thought he was as important as Phil Jackson, Pippen, and Jordan to that team's success, and burned bridges with all three of them because he was completely convinced he'd just pluck Tim Duncan from small-market San Antonio and raid Grant Hill from Detroit or Tracy McGrady from Toronto. Then the titles would just keep rolling in. Bravo to Krause for drafting Ho Grant and trading for Pippen in the draft, but he made some colossal mistakes such as letting Orlando Woolridge walk for nothing and trading a young Charles Oakley, not to mention putting the stake into the heart of the 6-time champions in 1998. Cartwright was a nice player, but no way he was worth Oak, especially at his age.

LMAO @ "Players don't win championships; organizations do" :rollin

[Culburn369]

LMAO @ "Players don't win championships; organizations do" :rollin

Not so funny though when you take into full account your Spurs Organization, eh, bum?

[baseline bum]

Not so funny though when you take into full account your Spurs Organization, eh, bum?

Pop has said a million times he and the organization would have never been shit without Duncan and Robinson. The Bulls had the same organization for years after Jordan left and where did it get them?

[Culburn369]

Pop has said a million times he and the organization would have never been shit without Duncan and Robinson.

Conversely, Duncan and Robinson, et al has said a million times that they would have never been shit without Pop & the organization.

[baseline bum]

Conversely, Duncan and Robinson, et al has said a million times that they would have never been shit without Pop & the organization.

Duncan and Robinson would be Hall of Famers on the Clippers.

[Culburn369]

Duncan and Robinson would be Hall of Famers on the Clippers.

Don't blame me, blame Duncan & Robinson, they're the ones who give all the credit to the Spurs Organization. I got ya by the short hairs and ya know it. You and your Spurs Fandom have been singing the praises of your Organization ever since I landed on this berg. Now Krause shows up and you try and rewrite history real quck. Uh, uh.

[baseline bum]

Don't blame me, blame Duncan & Robinson, they're the ones who give all the credit to the Spurs Organization. I got ya by the short hairs and ya know it. You and your Spurs Fandom have been singing the praises of your Organization ever since I landed on this berg. Now Krause shows up and you try and rewrite history real quck. Uh, uh.

LOL. Laker fans are so insecure and always trying to tear Jordan down to elevate Magic and LeBron to elevate Kobe. It's pathetic.

[Culburn369]

LOL. Laker fans are so insecure and always trying to tear Jordan down to elevate Magic and LeBron to elevate Kobe. It's pathetic.

My beef with you has nothing to do with Jordan. I caught you red handed, son, and I ain't ever lettin' ya ferget it.

Let us proceed...

[dbreiden83080]

Yep. I agree. The Bulls would have lost to both the 99' Spurs and 00' Lakers. Duncan and Robinson would have been to much for them, and a prime Kobe and Shaq just to much. It would have been very close (6 or 7 games) but they would have lost.

For sure. The Bulls won a tight as can be 7 game series with the Pacers to get to the finals that last year in 98. A game 7 where they won by 5 after trailing huge in the first half, where Jordan was struggling with his shot and looked exhausted. MJ was still the best player in the NBA in 1998, but no longer the best player of all time. 99 Spurs would have beat them..

[baseline bum]

My beef with you has nothing to do with Jordan. I caught you red handed, son, and I ain't ever lettin' ya ferget it.

Let us proceed...

You caught me red-handed on what? What the hell did Krause do after Jordan left? He ran the franchise into the ground after running all their talent off, and you want to pass him off as if he was the important part of their dynasty? :lmao

I guess I'd be bitter at Jordan too if he was getting cheered over my own guys in the Forum in the middle of the NBA Finals.

[baseline bum]

Magic was the best player for entire decade, and so is Kobe. No need to elevate. Shame on you for mentioning James.

LMAO. Kobe's not even the best Laker of the decade. Why shouldn't I mention James? You Laker fans can never shut the fuck up about him.

[Culburn369]

You caught me red-handed on what?

Talkin' out both sides of your mouth.

[baseline bum]

Talkin' out both sides of your mouth.

Because I laughed at the idea that organizations win titles and not players? :lol

[hitmanyr2k]

Because that "Fat Jerry" was one of the primary ways in which Krause was cast down. He was fat, white, homely, successful. They strapped that f'er to the post and whipped his ass mercilessly. Who'd want to stop them? He was the perfect patsy. They'd always include the unflattering photos of him looking like a fat slob. He tripled twice/like Jordan--but, that had no bearing on his station.

Krause has been hated on for good reason. He was an idiot that had a hard-on for Toni Kukoc. And that hard-on for Kukoc alienated the stars on the Bulls because Krause was more interested in getting Kukoc and looking like a genius than taking care of the current star players on the team. This was the main reason Pippen and Jordan went at Kukoc so hard in the Olympics and shut him down. After Jordan retired in '93 Krause signed Kukoc (an unproven rookie) to a contract worth more than any of the Bulls (including Jordan) had ever received. He then proceeded to demolish the Bulls in the next couple of years making boneheaded moves bringing in scrub after scrub. On top of that Krause insulted Horace Grant during the '94 playoffs (publicly naming power forwards that he thought were better than him) when they were in contract negotiations which caused Horace to say fuck the Bulls and sign with Orlando. Horace got his revenge a year later when he killed the Bulls in the '95 playoffs because they had no PF. Meanwhile during the '94 off-season Krause was trying to unload Pippen in a trade so his dream of having Kukoc running the show would come to fruition but he could never find the right deal. And after jackass Krause had run Horace off he figured he could cheaply replace him with crap players like Larry Krystowiak (who didn't last), Greg Foster (who didn't last), Corey Blount, and Dickey "fuckin" Simpkins who never amounted to shit. This pretty much meant Pippen had to do everything just to keep the team afloat and lead the Bulls in all major categories (scoring, rebounding, assists, steals, blocks, etc) in '95. Unfortunately for Krause (and luckily for Bulls fans) before he could run the team into the ground any further Jordan came back, Dennis Rodman filled the PF void and the rest is history.

[Culburn369]

Because I laughed at the idea that organizations win titles and not players?

That is precisely what you said about your Spurs right up until this Krause story got lodged.

[Culburn369]

"This pretty much meant Pippen had to do everything just to keep the team afloat and lead the Bulls in all major categories (scoring, rebounding, assists, steals, blocks, etc) in '95."

Same Pippen who quit when Kukoc got the last shot call. Huh, hitman? Pippen was fine as long as he had Jordan holding his hand, keeping him in line. Otherwise he was a malcontented loser his entire career. Krause had Kukoc pegged correctly: a winner.

C'mon, you got Krause strapped to the same post the other got him strapped to. He's damned if he doesn't, and when he does, you say "Jordan" as fast as you can.

Krause wasn't perfect, neither was Jordan. Jordan had to sit for a year because he was suspended for his gambling piccadillos. He's fortunate though he didn't end up in Federal Prison like Rose. But, he was taken care of.

Like Jordan, Krause produced two triples.

[hitmanyr2k]

"This pretty much meant Pippen had to do everything just to keep the team afloat and lead the Bulls in all major categories (scoring, rebounding, assists, steals, blocks, etc) in '95."

Same Pippen who quit when Kukoc got the last shot call. Huh, hitman? Pippen was fine as long as he had Jordan holding his hand, keeping him in line. Otherwise he was a malcontented loser his entire career. Krause had Kukoc pegged correctly: a winner.

C'mon, you got Krause strapped to the same post the other got him strapped to. He's damned if he doesn't, and when he does, you say "Jordan" as fast as you can.

Krause wasn't perfect, neither was Jordan. Jordan had to sit for a year because he was suspended for his gambling piccadillos. He's fortunate though he didn't end up in Federal Prison like Rose. But, he was taken care of.

Like Jordan, Krause produced two triples.

All of this is irrelevant to my post. Stop talking out of your ass for a second and say something worthwhile. I noticed you didn't address the other points about Krause bringing in scrubs or the Horace Grant deal because you're ignorant of the situation. Kukoc wasn't a "winner" in the NBA kid. He never became the caliber of player Krause touted him to be. He couldn't even get to borderline all-star level.

I don't care if Pippen and Jordan weren't perfect. I don't care about the NBA/Jordan conspiracy theories either. I gave reasons why Jerry Krause was hated among the players and coaches. You couldn't address any of it so you typed a lot of bullshit like it was going to fly. You could have just said you didn't know what the fuck you were talking about and saved us a lot of time.

[ambchang]

Because I laughed at the idea that organizations win titles and not players? :lol

Kobe winning 1+3 championships has nothing to do with his talent, it was all Jerry Buss.

[ambchang]

"This pretty much meant Pippen had to do everything just to keep the team afloat and lead the Bulls in all major categories (scoring, rebounding, assists, steals, blocks, etc) in '95."

Same Pippen who quit when Kukoc got the last shot call. Huh, hitman? Pippen was fine as long as he had Jordan holding his hand, keeping him in line. Otherwise he was a malcontented loser his entire career. Krause had Kukoc pegged correctly: a winner.

Same Kobe who quit when he got pissed off at his coach. Huh, Culburn? Kobe was fine as long as he had Jackson holding his hand, keeping him in line. Otherwise he was a malcontented loser his entire career. Buss had Jackson pegged correctly: a winner.

[Culburn369]

All of this is irrelevant to my post. Stop talking out of your ass for a second and say something worthwhile. I noticed you didn't address the other points about Krause bringing in scrubs or the Horace Grant deal because you're ignorant of the situation. Kukoc wasn't a "winner" in the NBA kid. He never became the caliber of player Krause touted him to be. He couldn't even get to borderline all-star level.

I don't care if Pippen and Jordan weren't perfect. I don't care about the NBA/Jordan conspiracy theories either. I gave reasons why Jerry Krause was hated among the players and coaches. You couldn't address any of it so you typed a lot of bullshit like it was going to fly. You could have just said you didn't know what the fuck you were talking about and saved us a lot of time.

I gave the reasons, you just chose to ignore them to fete your point. Krause was railroaded and on this Forum he'll get a fair shake. This I vow.

Now,

Let us proceed...

[Culburn369]

Same Kobe who quit when he got pissed off at his coach. Huh, Culburn?

Precisely. I make no excuses for Bryant quitting. None. My record on Kobe's quitting is plastered all over this Forum.

C'mon, amb, come get some.

[duncan228]

Trail of Crumbs leads Jordan to Hall’s doorstep (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AlfCh_9aRcexamgYCcYr2.O8vLYF?slug=aw-krausejordan090909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)
By Adrian Wojnarowski

Looking back, Jerry Krause still believes creative tension delivered a greater good to the dynasty. After all, history remembers old champions, not old chums. In the spring, he read Bill Russell’s memoir about his devotion to the Boston Celtics’ patriarch, Red Auerbach, and naturally it made Krause rewind to those days with Michael Jordan when winning came with isolation, without the joy of Jordan’s embrace.

As time passes, Krause, the great general manager of the Chicago Bulls, still lives with the gulf between him and Jordan, with a relationship that perspective never bridged, that the years never mended. Maybe they were too stubborn, he says now. Maybe they were just wired too wrong.

“It would’ve been nice to have that, but it wasn’t going to happen,” Krause said by phone from his suburban Chicago home. “And it’s probably better that it didn’t, because I don’t think we would’ve won as consistently. Michael was a different cat, and it was a different era of basketball.

“All the differences were created by unusual circumstances. We weren’t friends, and I still can’t call him a friend by any means. But I have a tremendous respect for him as an athlete and a competitor.”

Jordan needed enemies and slights to keep his edge – real and imagined – and Phil Jackson fed that with a cold-hearted manipulation. Krause was the easy target. Us against them became us against him. He was the slovenly scout who never looked the part, the GM whom the coaches and players were convinced wanted too much credit for the championship run. Jordan could be vicious, and forever spared no indignity with Krause.

Krause didn’t give Jordan everything, but he gave the most. He delivered Jordan history’s greatest coach in Jackson. He gave him Tex Winter and an unstoppable triangle offense. He gave him a Hall of Fame running mate, Scottie Pippen. Jerry Krause gave him a championship cast for three titles, and when Jordan returned from baseball, the GM reshaped the roster for three more championships. Jordan couldn’t do it alone, and never did. Whatever Jordan wants to believe, no one in basketball has ever given more to his greatness than Jerry Krause. No one.

Jordan owes him a deep debt of gratitude in his Hall of Fame acceptance speech on Friday, and the Hall of Fame owes Krause a bid on the wall in the class of 2010. It’s a disgrace that Krause has never made it past the screening committee – never mind as a finalist. Krause doesn’t issue statements when he’s slighted and doesn’t enlist his famous pals to campaign for him. Truth be told, he excused himself as a member of the voting panel in 2004. He despised the process and became disillusioned he couldn’t sell Winter’s Hall candidacy as a contributor.

“I said that I would never step foot in that Hall of Fame again until Tex gets inducted, and I haven’t,” Krause said.

Sure, it’s strange. He says a telephone call from Jordan wouldn’t have moved him to Springfield, but Jerry Sloan would’ve tempted him. Krause drafted Mr. Bull as a scout for the Baltimore Bullets, as well as Wes Unseld and Earl Monroe. Yet, Krause made himself a Hall of Famer for his work with the Bulls. Rod Thorn drafted Jordan in 1984, but even Thorn will tell you: That was the easy part.

“When we got there, it was Michael and 11 other guys that I didn’t want,” Krause said.

Krause transformed the roster. He surrounded Jordan with rebounders, defenders and shooters. He hired Jackson out of the Continental Basketball Association to work on Doug Collins’ staff, and elevated him when he believed the Bulls became a championship contender.

“We hired Phil when nobody would hire him in the NBA,” Krause said. “He was getting ready to go to law school and get out of basketball. … We got along fine until some contractual things flamed up. Phil’s a great coach. Phil’s the best coach ever with good players.”

Jackson let Winter install the triangle offense, which allowed Jordan to score everywhere on the floor. He became unstoppable in the post and a willing passer to his teammates. Most of all, Krause used Olden Polynice to get him the draft rights to Pippen. In the GM’s mind, Krause and Jordan could see the game – the possibilities – through an agreeable lens.

“Michael was great at identifying things,” Krause said. “Would Pippen have been great someplace else? Michael absolutely killed Scottie in practice every day for his first two years. Mike just tore Pip up. He made Pip learn how to compete and forced him into playing hard. Had there not been someone to challenge Scottie like that, I’m not sure what would’ve happened to him.”

They would win three titles to start the 1990s, and soon Jordan would lose his father, James, to an unspeakable murder and lose his good name to gambling debts with shady characters. It wouldn’t be long until Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf sent a messenger into the stands of a White Sox game late in the summer of 1993 and hustled Krause to his office. Michael is retiring, he told him.

“We won 55 games and it was the year [1993-94] that maybe I was the proudest of with the Bulls,” Krause said. “I appreciated that team. We ran the triangle better than any other team. We shared the ball.” The Bulls would lose to the Knicks in the Eastern Conference semifinals on Hue Hollins’ phantom foul call in Game 5. Had Jordan never walked away, Krause insists, “I think we would’ve won eight straight titles.”

As Krause reshaped the roster with Toni Kukoc and Dennis Rodman and Ron Harper,

the Bulls won three more titles. Krause became an object of ridicule on the team buses and in the newspapers. When Krause was famously quoted – misquoted, he still insists – about organizations winning championships, his coach and superstar twisted those words into an affront of their greatness.

“What I had said was that coaches and players alone don’t win championships, that organizations do, and Michael and Phil went a little nuts not knowing what I said,” Krause said. “I do believe organizations win and lose.”

He was right then, and he’s right now. After leaving the Bulls in 2003, Krause returned to his first love, baseball scouting, working for the Yankees and Mets. This winter, he left baseball, and this is the first time in 47 years that he doesn’t have a job. He’s working out. He’s lost 36 pounds. “I needed to take care of myself,” Krause said.

For once, Jordan needs to take care of him. He should stand up for Jerry Krause now, the way that he never did as a Bull. Older and wiser, Jordan should be more than a little humbled over how hard it is to build a championship basketball team. Krause never drafted Kwame Brown and Adam Morrison.

As much as anything, Jordan should understand that his journey to Springfield, to immortality, would’ve never been complete without that rumpled man he called Crumbs.

Jerry Krause will be home, watching on television and the game’s greatest player needs to take a moment out of his speech to honor Krause in a way he never did in the days of the dynasty. He doesn’t owe Krause everything, but he owes him a thank you. He owes Krause that bully pulpit to bless a deserving Hall of Fame candidacy, to honor the architect of the greatest dynasty since Red and Russell’s Celtics with a fitting ending for that frumpy old man.

[Culburn369]

Great article..confirms my charter stand on this issue.

[ambchang]

Precisely. I make no excuses for Bryant quitting. None. My record on Kobe's quitting is plastered all over this Forum.

C'mon, amb, come get some.

So now I know you agree that Kobe was a malcontented loser his entire career without Jackson holding his hand.

:tu

[Culburn369]

So now I know you agree that Kobe was a malcontented loser his entire career without Jackson holding his hand.

Never said such.

[ambchang]

:lobt2:
Never said such.

So Pippen quitting his team over not getting his number called shows him as being a loser, while Kobe quitting on his team does not?

Please explain what separate the two incidents.

[Culburn369]

:lobt2:

So Pippen quitting his team over not getting his number called shows him as being a loser, while Kobe quitting on his team does not?

Please explain what separate the two incidents.

If you want my explanation go back and read my manifest on Kobe quitting.

[ambchang]

If you want my explanation go back and read my manifest on Kobe quitting.

You talked about the difference between Kobe's quitting and Pippen's quitting?

I have trouble finding it, link please.

[Culburn369]

I have trouble finding it, link please.

Tough. Go look, its back in the stacks somewhere.

[ambchang]

Tough. Go look, its back in the stacks somewhere.

ANd I repeat: You talked about the difference between Kobe's quitting and Pippen's quitting?

I looked, and all I could find were posts about you that goes off on a tangent when you are wrong and spewing much opinions as facts (wrong ones at that).

Can't find anything that you said that was really meaningful and insightful either.

[Culburn369]

ANd I repeat: You talked about the difference between Kobe's quitting and Pippen's quitting?

I looked, and all I could find were posts about you that goes off on a tangent when you are wrong and spewing much opinions as facts (wrong ones at that).

Can't find anything that you said that was really meaningful and insightful either.

Tough. Keep searching. It's there. & it was beautifully written. I had my shit together for it those days (I wrote it on two separate occasions). I'm not feeling it today, or, I'd repeat it. I'm off on this other tangent, toasting selfish Stockton's ass.

[Culburn369]

Pippen refused to go in the game during crunch time because his number wasn't called. Kobe was crying out for help, and Logo heard him and obliged. Far from the same.

You mean Logo was listening all the way from TN.?

hahahahahaha!!!!!!

[ambchang]

Tough. Keep searching. It's there. & it was beautifully written. I had my shit together for it those days (I wrote it on two separate occasions). I'm not feeling it today, or, I'd repeat it. I'm off on this other tangent, toasting selfish Stockton's ass.

Or do you mean it doesn't exist.

[ambchang]

Pippen refused to go in the game during crunch time because his number wasn't called. Kobe was crying out for help, and Logo heard him and obliged. Far from the same.

Refusing to shoot was a great way to cry out for help.
And the Logo sure did help him out, big time.

[Culburn369]

Or do you mean it doesn't exist.

Believe what you want to believe, amb.

I'll get another hair in my ass for it sometime and I'll write it again. I don't hide our piccadillos.

[Spurs Brazil]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AjSTIMVll48__2Ge10.GoEq8vLYF?slug=aw-krausejordan090909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Trail of Crumbs leads Jordan to Hall’s doorstep

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
Sep 9, 7:20 pm EDT

Buzz up! 114 PrintLooking back, Jerry Krause still believes creative tension delivered a greater good to the dynasty. After all, history remembers old champions, not old chums. In the spring, he read Bill Russell’s memoir about his devotion to the Boston Celtics’ patriarch, Red Auerbach, and naturally it made Krause rewind to those days with Michael Jordan when winning came with isolation, without the joy of Jordan’s embrace.


As time passes, Krause, the great general manager of the Chicago Bulls, still lives with the gulf between him and Jordan, with a relationship that perspective never bridged, that the years never mended. Maybe they were too stubborn, he says now. Maybe they were just wired too wrong.


“It would’ve been nice to have that, but it wasn’t going to happen,” Krause said by phone from his suburban Chicago home. “And it’s probably better that it didn’t, because I don’t think we would’ve won as consistently. Michael was a different cat, and it was a different era of basketball.

More From Adrian WojnarowskiHornets acquire Brown, Songaila Sep 9, 2009 Iverson agrees to Grizzlies deal Sep 9, 2009 “All the differences were created by unusual circumstances. We weren’t friends, and I still can’t call him a friend by any means. But I have a tremendous respect for him as an athlete and a competitor.”

Jordan needed enemies and slights to keep his edge – real and imagined – and Phil Jackson fed that with a cold-hearted manipulation. Krause was the easy target. Us against them became us against him. He was the slovenly scout who never looked the part, the GM whom the coaches and players were convinced wanted too much credit for the championship run. Jordan could be vicious, and forever spared no indignity with Krause.


Krause didn’t give Jordan everything, but he gave the most. He delivered Jordan history’s greatest coach in Jackson. He gave him Tex Winter and an unstoppable triangle offense. He gave him a Hall of Fame running mate, Scottie Pippen. Jerry Krause gave him a championship cast for three titles, and when Jordan returned from baseball, the GM reshaped the roster for three more championships. Jordan couldn’t do it alone, and never did. Whatever Jordan wants to believe, no one in basketball has ever given more to his greatness than Jerry Krause. No one.

Jordan owes him a deep debt of gratitude in his Hall of Fame acceptance speech on Friday, and the Hall of Fame owes Krause a bid on the wall in the class of 2010. It’s a disgrace that Krause has never made it past the screening committee – never mind as a finalist. Krause doesn’t issue statements when he’s slighted and doesn’t enlist his famous pals to campaign for him. Truth be told, he excused himself as a member of the voting panel in 2004. He despised the process and became disillusioned he couldn’t sell Winter’s Hall candidacy as a contributor.

“I said that I would never step foot in that Hall of Fame again until Tex gets inducted, and I haven’t,” Krause said.

Sure, it’s strange. He says a telephone call from Jordan wouldn’t have moved him to Springfield, but Jerry Sloan would’ve tempted him. Krause drafted Mr. Bull as a scout for the Baltimore Bullets, as well as Wes Unseld and Earl Monroe. Yet, Krause made himself a Hall of Famer for his work with the Bulls. Rod Thorn drafted Jordan in 1984, but even Thorn will tell you: That was the easy part.

“When we got there, it was Michael and 11 other guys that I didn’t want,” Krause said.

Krause transformed the roster. He surrounded Jordan with rebounders, defenders and shooters. He hired Jackson out of the Continental Basketball Association to work on Doug Collins’ staff, and elevated him when he believed the Bulls became a championship contender.

“We hired Phil when nobody would hire him in the NBA,” Krause said. “He was getting ready to go to law school and get out of basketball. … We got along fine until some contractual things flamed up. Phil’s a great coach. Phil’s the best coach ever with good players.”

Jackson let Winter install the triangle offense, which allowed Jordan to score everywhere on the floor. He became unstoppable in the post and a willing passer to his teammates. Most of all, Krause used Olden Polynice to get him the draft rights to Pippen. In the GM’s mind, Krause and Jordan could see the game – the possibilities – through an agreeable lens.

“Michael was great at identifying things,” Krause said. “Would Pippen have been great someplace else? Michael absolutely killed Scottie in practice every day for his first two years. Mike just tore Pip up. He made Pip learn how to compete and forced him into playing hard. Had there not been someone to challenge Scottie like that, I’m not sure what would’ve happened to him.”

They would win three titles to start the 1990s, and soon Jordan would lose his father, James, to an unspeakable murder and lose his good name to gambling debts with shady characters. It wouldn’t be long until Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf sent a messenger into the stands of a White Sox game late in the summer of 1993 and hustled Krause to his office. Michael is retiring, he told him.

“We won 55 games and it was the year [1993-94] that maybe I was the proudest of with the Bulls,” Krause said. “I appreciated that team. We ran the triangle better than any other team. We shared the ball.” The Bulls would lose to the Knicks in the Eastern Conference semifinals on Hue Hollins’ phantom foul call in Game 5. Had Jordan never walked away, Krause insists, “I think we would’ve won eight straight titles.”

As Krause reshaped the roster with Toni Kukoc and Dennis Rodman and Ron Harper,

the Bulls won three more titles. Krause became an object of ridicule on the team buses and in the newspapers. When Krause was famously quoted – misquoted, he still insists – about organizations winning championships, his coach and superstar twisted those words into an affront of their greatness.


“What I had said was that coaches and players alone don’t win championships, that organizations do, and Michael and Phil went a little nuts not knowing what I said,” Krause said. “I do believe organizations win and lose.”


He was right then, and he’s right now. After leaving the Bulls in 2003, Krause returned to his first love, baseball scouting, working for the Yankees and Mets. This winter, he left baseball, and this is the first time in 47 years that he doesn’t have a job. He’s working out. He’s lost 36 pounds. “I needed to take care of myself,” Krause said.


For once, Jordan needs to take care of him. He should stand up for Jerry Krause now, the way that he never did as a Bull. Older and wiser, Jordan should be more than a little humbled over how hard it is to build a championship basketball team. Krause never drafted Kwame Brown(notes) and Adam Morrison(notes).

As much as anything, Jordan should understand that his journey to Springfield, to immortality, would’ve never been complete without that rumpled man he called Crumbs.

Jerry Krause will be home, watching on television and the game’s greatest player needs to take a moment out of his speech to honor Krause in a way he never did in the days of the dynasty. He doesn’t owe Krause everything, but he owes him a thank you. He owes Krause that bully pulpit to bless a deserving Hall of Fame candidacy, to honor the architect of the greatest dynasty since Red and Russell’s Celtics with a fitting ending for that frumpy old man.

Adrian Wojnarowski is the NBA columnist for Yahoo! Sports. Send Adrian a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

[Culburn369]

Great article, which confirms my assertions.