Georgia Pastor Killed in Botched Drug Bust

[InRareForm]

http://www.reason.com/blog/show/135857.html

Developing story in Georgia, where church pastor Jonathan Ayers was shot and killed by undercover narcotics officers during a botched drug sting on Tuesday afternoon. Ayers was not the target of the investigation.

Police were apparently after a woman Ayers had dropped off just prior to stopping at the convenience store where police confronted him. Surveillance video shows a black SUV pulling up to the store, and plain-clothes officers jumping out with their guns drawn before the vehicle has stopped. Ayers' car then backs into the picture, and the officers fire into his car as he drives off. Ayers was shot in the liver, crashed his car a short distance later, and died at the hospital from the bullet wound.

A police spokesperson says the officers identified themselves as they got out of the truck, though even if they did, it isn't difficult to see how someone in Ayers' position might panic when confronted with armed, plain-clothes men who'd just jumped from a black SUV. He had also just returned from getting money from the store's ATM. There were no drugs in Ayers' car.

Ayers leaves behind a wife who is four months pregnant.

[exstatic]

Drops woman off. Refills wallet at ATM. Hmmm.

[InRareForm]

^ Still no reason for cops to get trigger happy. They could have made an arrest while he was in store.

[manufan10]

I wonder if they revealed themselves as officers, if not then they are in even bigger trouble. Even if they did, there's no reason to fire into the vehicle.

[pawe]

Fuckin trigger happy pigs.

[balli]

If you hire a man to do police work, you might get a decent police. You hire a man to fight a war against poor people and you get a soldier who lacks even the basic common sense that is needed to, y'know, not kill innocent bystanders.

[exstatic]

^ Still no reason for cops to get trigger happy. They could have made an arrest while he was in store.


I wonder if they revealed themselves as officers, if not then they are in even bigger trouble. Even if they did, there's no reason to fire into the vehicle.


Fuckin trigger happy pigs.

Don't go to a blog for the complete story. They tend to edit to fit their agenda.

cnn story (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/04/georgia.pastor.shot/index.html)


The officers saw the woman in a car with Ayers and saw what they believed was a drug transaction, Bankhead said. They followed the car as Ayers dropped the woman off at a gas station.

The undercover officers wanted to question Ayers about what they had just seen, he said. "They approached the vehicle. They were in plain clothes. They identified themselves as police officers, which civilian witnesses say happened. They also had badges around their necks."

Ayers put the car in reverse and backed up, striking an officer, Bankhead said.

According to Bankhead, Ayers then put the car into drive, and another officer fired into the car, hitting Ayers, because he thought his life was in danger.

I'm as hard on the cops as anyone, but hitting a cop with your car and continuing to attempt to flee at any cost is a justifiable scenario for firearm use. My guess is he was out getting some trim for pay. He thought it was a John bust and panicked because of his position in the community.

[z0sa]

Don't go to a blog for the complete story. They tend to edit to fit their agenda.

cnn story (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/04/georgia.pastor.shot/index.html)



I'm as hard on the cops as anyone, but hitting a cop with your car and continuing to attempt to flee at any cost is a justifiable scenario for firearm use. My guess is he was out getting some trim for pay. He thought it was a John bust and panicked because of his position in the community.

You're overlooking a critical detail - they were in civi clothing. He had no idea he was running over a cop, indeed he probably thought he was fleeing armed robbers.

[Wild Cobra]

You're overlooking a critical detail - they were in civi clothing. He had no idea he was running over a cop, indeed he probably thought he was fleeing armed robbers.
I agree. There are bad cops out there. They need to be strung up by their trigger fingers. We have our share of them here in Portland.

I only wonder if he was related to William Charles Ayers?

[BacktoBasics]

Plain clothes huh. I probably would have struck a plain clothed armed man regardless of whether he identified himself as an officer or not. How do you know for sure.

[Wild Cobra]

Looking at the video, I'd say he thought he was trying to get away from a car jacking.

Surveillance Video Shows Moments Before Shooting (http://www.wneg32.tv/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1490:surveillance-video-shows-moments-before-shooting&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=18)

[Kriz-Maxima]

Shit, I would have hit reverse too.

[manufan10]

You're overlooking a critical detail - they were in civi clothing. He had no idea he was running over a cop, indeed he probably thought he was fleeing armed robbers.

That's exactly what I thought. I've read plenty of stories where people are hijacked, robber, or something to that effect because they pull over for a "plain clothed" cop.

[boutons_deux]

"Stephen County Sheriff Randy Shirley revealed To WYFF News (Greenville, SC) that the woman inside Ayers’ car was arrested for selling drugs and it was proved that she was a drug dealer. Georgia Bureau Of Investigation (GBI) Spokesman John Bankhead said that Ayers of Shoal Creek Baptist Church in Lovania was not the target of the undercover officers carrying out the drug sting operation."

This is America, Every Problem is Solved With A Gun. 2nd Amendment and all that prextext excuses.

How were the trigger-happy police threatened by a car driving away from them?

Backing up in order to pull away is more understandable than backing up to target a cop, whom the driver may not have seen.

A clear case of excessive fatal force in the face of no mortal threat or violence.

[exstatic]

You're overlooking a critical detail - they were in civi clothing. He had no idea he was running over a cop, indeed he probably thought he was fleeing armed robbers.

Right, they're running at him in civilian clothing, with badges around their necks, identifying themselves as cops, and he didn't think they were cops. Weak sauce, even for you z0sa. Your "logic" says that you only have to respond to officers in uniform, because anyone else may be a crook that's pretending. Without undercover work, there is no policing vice.

[manufan10]

Right, they're running at him in civilian clothing, with badges around their necks, identifying themselves as cops, and he didn't think they were cops. Weak sauce, even for you z0sa. Your "logic" says that you only have to respond to officers in uniform, because anyone else may be a crook that's pretending. Without undercover work, there is no policing vice.

How would the guy know that those are real badges? It's not like those things are hard to come by. That still doesn't give them the ok to shoot into the vehicle.

[chode_regulator]

For all you who say he was merely backing up, that video says otherwise. He was hauling ass. I have never gone taht fast in reverse while simply pulling out of a spot.
If he was so worried about them not being real officers, why run? He was in a crowded envoronment, a freaking gas station in the middle of the day! And he was white, for all the people who always make things about race. I'd rather take my chances of getting jacked for what little cash I had on me than get shot and killed.
Whether or not the officers properly identified themselves is probably going to be the main focus here. Supposedly witnesses claim the officers did and they had badges around their necks. What else are they to do?
It does look like the driver in the Avalanche or whatever the Caddy version of it is called, did start to try to ram the car as it was backing up and then stopped. That would have seemed to be a more viable option of stopping him than shooting.
Also had they chased him and someone had been hit and killed, all the same people on here bashing the cops would be bashing them for not stopping him in the parking lot and letting him haul ass away and run over some grandma crossing the road or some shit.

[exstatic]

How would the guy know that those are real badges? It's not like those things are hard to come by. That still doesn't give them the ok to shoot into the vehicle.

So, are you saying you only have to respond to cops in uniform?

They shot into the vehicle because he hit a cop with it.

[BadMoodBob]

If you hire a man to do police work, you might get a decent police. You hire a man to fight a war against poor people and you get a soldier who lacks even the basic common sense that is needed to, y'know, not kill innocent bystanders.

"A war against poor people"

:lmao You love that Conflict Theory don't you.


They fucked up that bust though. Shooting into a vehicle rarely works the way it is intended to. And in the middle of a crowded gas lot? That is some shitty discretion if no exigent circumstances were involved.

[mouse]

Where was the Taser?

[exstatic]

Where was the Taser?

They generally don't work through glass.

[mouse]

They generally don't work through glass.

This one does.

PHaSR

Personnel Halting and Stimulation Response rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personnel_Halting_and_Stimulation_Response_rifle

http://www.geekologie.com/2008/12/29/pew-pew-bitches.jpg

[manufan10]

So, are you saying you only have to respond to cops in uniform?

They shot into the vehicle because he hit a cop with it.

That's great justification for killing a guy. You see guys running at you with guns what are you going to do? I'm not going to sit there and get shot. I'm going to do my best to get out of the situation. Like I stated before, people can get badges anywhere. I've read numerous stories where people have gotten hurt/killed/robbed by plain clothed "cops." It was idiotic to shoot at into the vehicle.

[z0sa]

Right, they're running at him in civilian clothing, with badges around their necks, identifying themselves as cops, and he didn't think they were cops. Weak sauce, even for you z0sa. Your "logic" says that you only have to respond to officers in uniform, because anyone else may be a crook that's pretending. Without undercover work, there is no policing vice.

Who the fuck looks - or cares - for a badge when you're being surrounded by plain clothes gunmen at a gas station? This wasn't a routine traffic stop, guy. This was a sudden ambush on the unsuspecting.

And weaksauce is completely overlooking the reason why he bolted in the first place.

[TDMVPDPOY]

LOL why didnt they shoot the tyres?

instead went for the victim...

[Bigzax]

were the cops black? there's gotta be a race angle here somewhere if we look hard enough.

[Wild Cobra]

That video was plain. Badges are small, and you cannot assume he heard them, or even believed they were cops.

One or more of those cops need to rot in jail.

[z0sa]

That video was plain. Badges are small, and you cannot assume he heard them, or even believed they were cops.

One or more of those cops need to rot in jail.

Yeah, anyone including ecstatic would have done the same thing if a black avalanche rolled up with white tee'd men brandishing firearms in the side of the parking lot. It was only a couple, too, further making it seem like a straight out armed robbery with a getaway driver. I couldn't see badges from the camera, either, and the gunmen weren't exactly dots on the horizon.

Besides, ecstatic has yet to explain WHY exactly Ayers ran. He didn't have drugs in the car. The person they were actually fucking after is female and not on the scene. Why did he run, except for self-preservation? And why did they even consider firing at him?

[manufan10]

After watching the surveillance footage, I definitely don't think the guy was trying to run over the officer. He backed up fast, probably saw two men running at him with guns and got scared, then drove off. I see nothing wrong with what he did. Now he's dead because they decided to shoot up his car. Pathetic.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

"Stephen County Sheriff Randy Shirley revealed To WYFF News (Greenville, SC) that the woman inside Ayers’ car was arrested for selling drugs and it was proved that she was a drug dealer. Georgia Bureau Of Investigation (GBI) Spokesman John Bankhead said that Ayers of Shoal Creek Baptist Church in Lovania was not the target of the undercover officers carrying out the drug sting operation."

This is America, Every Problem is Solved With A Gun. 2nd Amendment and all that prextext excuses.

How were the trigger-happy police threatened by a car driving away from them?

Backing up in order to pull away is more understandable than backing up to target a cop, whom the driver may not have seen.

A clear case of excessive fatal force in the face of no mortal threat or violence.

You're a dumbass. If you hit a police officer with a vehicle, it is treated as assault with a deadly weapon. At that point, the cops can defend themselves.

Trigger happy, lmao.

[exstatic]

Who the fuck looks - or cares - for a badge when you're being surrounded by plain clothes gunmen at a gas station? This wasn't a routine traffic stop, guy. This was a sudden ambush on the unsuspecting.

And weaksauce is completely overlooking the reason why he bolted in the first place.

And why's that? Northern Ga. pastor in the big city, in an obvious drug and prostitution area. Why should he be surprised to be busted by real cops?

Let me lay out my theory. He's in the company of this young woman who's the target, or at least a person of interest in an ongoing drug investigation. Now, what do many young women with drug habits do to support those habits? That's right. Prostitution. He goes into the store to refill his wallet after, uh, giving her his testimony, comes out, gets into his car, and is accosted by the cops, WHO HE KNOWS ARE COPS, and he panics, hits one of them with his car, and gets shot. A tragedy, but a preacher-caused tragedy.

[manufan10]

Bankhead said agents approached Ayers after he dropped a woman off at a store in downtown Toccoa, which is about 90 miles northeast of Atlanta. The passenger was the person being investigated by the task force.
A grainy surveillance video from a nearby store shows two drug task-force agents emerge from a black SUV before Ayers' small car backs up. The two men fire into the passenger side of Ayers' car, and then it takes off with the agents running behind it, the video posted on WNEG-TV in Toccoa shows. The station owner would not release the video to The Associated Press.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,546463,00.html?sPage=fnc/us/crime

[manufan10]

The officers saw the woman in a car with Ayers and saw what they believed was a drug transaction, Bankhead said. They followed the car as Ayers dropped the woman off at a gas station.
The undercover officers wanted to question Ayers about what they had just seen, he said. "They approached the vehicle. They were in plain clothes. They identified themselves as police officers, which civilian witnesses say happened. They also had badges around their necks."

No drugs and nothing else illegal was found in Ayers' car, Bankhead said,

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/04/georgia.pastor.shot/index.html

The second bold part doesn't match up with the surveillance video. It shows two officers running towards Ayers vehicle. If they just wanted to talk to Ayers, why not just walk cordially up to the vehicle? Why did they run towards him? Why did they have their weapons drawn?

[z0sa]

WHO HE KNOWS ARE COPS

I disagree with that statement.

Did you watch the video? The entire event transpires in less than 10 seconds. He's in his car, a black Avalanche (which IMO isn't a known cop vehicle like some Ford/Dodge models are) suddenly rolls right behind him, two gunmen exit, he sees what's happening and reverses, he nails a cop going about 10mph backwards and the cop actually doesn't get much of a hit from the car, he stops for about 2 seconds where he was probably shot, and drives away.

In 10 seconds, all that happens, and then he speeds away to go crash and ultimately die. You really don't think in all likelihood he had no clue these guys were cops? Your bad neighborhood logic is the worst yet, as well. If its a bad area, unmarked civilians brandishing guns will almost never be undercover cops, don't you agree?

I mean, even after all that, if he was convinced they were cops he'd have stopped when he got shot, right? I mean, why keep running for your life if you know there's cops that will save you in spite of whatever crime you just committed against them?

[exstatic]

I disagree with that statement.

Did you watch the video? The entire event transpires in less than 10 seconds. He's in his car, a black Avalanche (which IMO isn't a known cop vehicle like some Ford/Dodge models are) suddenly rolls right behind him, two gunmen exit, he sees what's happening and reverses, he nails a cop going about 10mph backwards and the cop actually doesn't get much of a hit from the car, he stops for about 2 seconds where he was probably shot, and drives away.

In 10 seconds, all that happens, and then he speeds away to go crash and ultimately die. You really don't think in all likelihood he had no clue these guys were cops? Your bad neighborhood logic is the worst yet, as well. If its a bad area, unmarked civilians brandishing guns will almost never be undercover cops, don't you agree?

I mean, even after all that, if he was convinced they were cops he'd have stopped when he got shot, right? I mean, why keep running for your life if you know there's cops that will save you in spite of whatever crime you just committed against them?
I don't agree. Maybe one person would brandish a fake badge, but I've never heard of a group impersonation, all with badges, to get the proceeds of one ATM transaction. And does he really think he's going to get away from bad guys in his car without getting shot? If you flee while hitting people, either way, you're getting shot. If you stop, there's like a 99% chance it's the cops showing badges, en masse, and you're just down for a bust. The smart play is to not run if you haven't done anything. That's why I think he was looking at a John bust. He thought somehow that running was better than getting busted and the embarrassment to his congregation and family. It wasn't.

[BadMoodBob]

Some Cops may be stupid, but they don't gang bum rush you without yelling POLICIA. If you are going to rush an alleged Drug-Dealer in a vehicle (possibility of concealed weapons) the cops would be more inclined to make their profession known assuming the possible armed drug-dealer would be less interested in getting into a gun fight outnumbered against well-armed law enforcement. Not having to wear a uniform is a privilege. When you go from low rank patrol man to non-uniformed officer, they know they can't go around waving guns without blatantly declaring their profession. Surely they are not so stupid as to be promoted into Vice and not understand how that would look.

It was just a horrible time & place to do the bust. Since law enforcement had control over that aspect, they fucked it up. This is obviously an opinion of someone who knows nothing of the true details.

[z0sa]

So he bolted as quick as he could to hide what exactly? He wasn't guilty of anything except association, but he's a pastor. That could easily have been written off as an attempt to lead a lost lamb to the light.

[Kriz-Maxima]

But that works under the assumption that after taking money out of the atm, in your car, you are able to see a gun and in a matter of seconds, not even 5, produce a safe response. Which also means that, keeping all of the above in mind, that person's mental ability to reason will not be affected by the shock.

If that were to happen to me the only way i don't hit reverse is if I freeze. It wouldn't be a thought out response, It would a lack of response.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Dude probably just got rattled and decided to get the fuck out of there.

Why did they wait until after he got in his car to take him down? Don't they have the Columbo light?

Why didn't they just pull him over down the road?

[exstatic]

Dude probably just got rattled and decided to get the fuck out of there.

Why did they wait until after he got in his car to take him down? Don't they have the Columbo light?

Why didn't they just pull him over down the road?

Let me play devil's advocate here. It's possible to steal or manufacture one of those, so it's OK to flee and cause accidents and hurt people because it could be bad guys faking being cops.

[manufan10]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/04/georgia.pastor.shot/index.html

The second bold part doesn't match up with the surveillance video. It shows two officers running towards Ayers vehicle. If they just wanted to talk to Ayers, why not just walk cordially up to the vehicle? Why did they run towards him? Why did they have their weapons drawn?

[exstatic]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/04/georgia.pastor.shot/index.html

The second bold part doesn't match up with the surveillance video. It shows two officers running towards Ayers vehicle. If they just wanted to talk to Ayers, why not just walk cordially up to the vehicle? Why did they run towards him? Why did they have their weapons drawn?

Because they're working a drug ring sting, and they have NO FUCKING IDEA he's just a preacher? This isn't random dude they want to ask questions of. He had contact with a subject in their investigation in a manner that suggested illegal activity. In a drug bust, you ALWAYS have your guns unholstered and safeties off.

Do you have any idea how drug enforcement police work is done? Because your question seems sort of stupid, in a pollyanna-ish naive way.

[manufan10]

Because they're working a drug ring sting, and they have NO FUCKING IDEA he's just a preacher? This isn't random dude they want to ask questions of. He had contact with a subject in their investigation in a manner that suggested illegal activity. In a drug bust, you ALWAYS have your guns unholstered and safeties off.

Do you have any idea how drug enforcement police work is done? Because your question seems sort of stupid, in a pollyanna-ish naive way.

They've already said that they just want to ask questions. They handled the situation improperly. They rushed the car, with weapons drawn for no reason. They are responsible for this man's death, whether you like it or not. It's not a naive question. Actually, it's a very legitimate question. Why not call for backup? It doesn't make sense for them to rush at him when he WAS NOT the suspect or the person in question. It was also in the middle of the day, at a gas station. This "bust" wasn't happening at a house. They handled it wrong, and now a man is dead because of it.

[exstatic]

They've already said that they just want to ask questions. They handled the situation improperly. They rushed the car, with weapons drawn for no reason. They are responsible for this man's death, whether you like it or not. It's not a naive question. Actually, it's a very legitimate question. Why not call for backup? It doesn't make sense for them to rush at him when he WAS NOT the suspect or the person in question. It was also in the middle of the day, at a gas station. This "bust" wasn't happening at a house. They handled it wrong, and now a man is dead because of it.

Do you know how to get a drug suspect to answer questions? You rush with force, subdue, restrain, take them down to the station, and ask your questions. Anything short of that leads to the suspect running away at best, and a shootout with cops at worst. Anytime they are working narcotics, cops are in constant danger. They're not going to just stroll up to a car, and yes that does make you naive.

[manufan10]

Georgia Bureau of Investigation spokesman John Bankhead said a passenger in Jonathan Paul Ayers' car was under investigation, but the 28-year-old pastor of Shoal Creek Baptist Church in Lavonia was not a target in the probe.

The shooting occurred after Ayers dropped the woman off at a store in downtown Toccoa Wednesday afternoon.

"They didn't know who he was," Bankhead said. "That's why they wanted to question him. There were witnesses around."


http://www.wsbtv.com/news/20696049/detail.html

There were witnesses all around yet the still opened fire on the car? Not very smart. They're lucky no one else was injured.

[manufan10]

Do you know how to get a drug suspect to answer questions? You rush with force, subdue, restrain, take them down to the station, and ask your questions. Anything short of that leads to the suspect running away at best, and a shootout with cops at worst. Anytime they are working narcotics, cops are in constant danger. They're not going to just stroll up to a car, and yes that does make you naive.

Yes rushing a vehicle is a the way to get him to answer questions. :rolleyes Running at them at guns isn't going to cause a shootout? I understand they're in danger, hence the calling for backup. Or at least doing more leg work and not try and go after the guy military style. It was a stupid move. Irresponsible. There were better ways of handling the situation.

[z0sa]

Why did he continue fleeing after they shot him? Why did he flee in the first place?

[bdictjames]

Georgia..

[exstatic]

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/20696049/detail.html

There were witnesses all around yet the still opened fire on the car? Not very smart. They're lucky no one else was injured.
Uh, it was like a 10 foot shot. They're not missing that.

Even gang bangers are smart enough to never walk up to a car they don't know in a bad neighborhood. Someone can shoot right through the door and kill you on the spot.

[exstatic]

Why did he continue fleeing after they shot him? Why did he flee in the first place?

Because they shot him and I think he was a John, but we'll never know unless the girl talks.

[manufan10]

Uh, it was like a 10 foot shot. They're not missing that.

Even gang bangers are smart enough to never walk up to a car they don't know in a bad neighborhood. Someone can shoot right through the door and kill you on the spot.

So you're ok with them shooting with bystanders around? Idiot! Ricochets can occur. Anything can happen when you shoot a gun. They're lucky they didn't hit an innocent person.

[z0sa]

Because they shot him

Because they shot him he kept fleeing because he had been shot?


and I think he was a John, but we'll never know unless the girl talks.

What reason exactly would he be fleeing police for, if he knew they were police?

[manufan10]

Because they shot him and I think he was a John, but we'll never know unless the girl talks.

Two guys rush him with a gun, then proceed to shoot at him. They're suppose to protect and to serve. This isn't the wild west, shoot first ask questions later, their is protocol to follow. Shooting at a vehicle with innocent bystanders is irresponsible.

I'm going with the opposite approach. He was a Pastor doing something to help someone he thought in need. He thought he was an innocent bystander. A black Avalanche pulls up, two guys jump out of the backseat and run up to your car with weapons drawn. You don't know who these guys are so you try and haul it out of there. You are innocent, and then these guys start shooting at you. Would you stop? No. Hell no. You try and get out of there. You don't know who these guys are. They're not local police, they're "multi- county" drug officers.

[z0sa]

I'm just trying to understand here.

Who flees police, especially police with their guns drawn and rushing your vehicle, if:

you aren't intoxicated
don't have a record
don't have anything illegal in the vehicle
don't even have the suspect they're looking for with you
in fact, you're a goddamn pastor with a little one on the way.

Who in that situation, flees the police?

[manufan10]

I'm just trying to understand here.

Whof lees police, especially police with their guns drawn and rushing your vehicle, if:

you aren't intoxicated
don't have a record
don't have anything illegal in the vehicle
don't even have the suspect they're looking for with you
in fact, you're a goddamn pastor with a little one on the way.

Who in that situation, flees the police?

He doesn't believe that they are police.

[z0sa]

He doesn't believe that they are police.

Bingo.

[exstatic]

I'm just trying to understand here.

Who flees police, especially police with their guns drawn and rushing your vehicle, if:

you aren't intoxicated
don't have a record
don't have anything illegal in the vehicle
don't even have the suspect they're looking for with you
in fact, you're a goddamn pastor with a little one on the way.

Who in that situation, flees the police?

You apparently are either ignoring what I write or can't read. You asked the question before, and I said I thought he was a John. That would make a preacher run from the cops.

[manufan10]

Bingo.

What do you think are the chances Ayers mistaking the badges for bling?

[z0sa]

You apparently are either ignoring what I write or can't read. You asked the question before, and I said I thought he was a John. That would make a preacher run from the cops.

That's laughable.

This man's life is done and his baby won't have a daddy now because mr. officer's buddy got nudged by the car.

[z0sa]

What do you think are the chances Ayers mistaking the badges for bling?

He saw weapons drawn and got the fuck out of there, like any person would. He didn't look even once for badges, these were plain clothes men in an avalanche about to kill him - which they did. Hence why he kept driving until his wound caused him to crash.

[manufan10]

He saw weapons drawn and got the fuck out of there, like any person would. He didn't look even once for badges, these were plain clothes men in an avalanche about to kill him - which they did. Hence why he kept driving until his wound caused him to crash.

I agree. Some people would make the argument that they had their badges in a visible place. My argument is that Pastor Ayers could have mistaken the badge as bling. Cops have mistaken wallets, cellphones, and other things as guns. I think Pastor Ayers could have mistaken a badge for bling. That accompanied with a black SUV with dark tint and guns blazing = get the hell out of there.

[exstatic]

You two continue patting yourselves on the back and group thinking. They know who the girl is, and she will eventually be picked up, and we'll find out what happened between the hooker and the preacher.

[z0sa]

You two continue patting yourselves on the back and group thinking.

Why would he be a "john bust" if he wasn't doing anything illegal?

And again, the "hooker" being with him is easily reconciled. Additionally, at this point, no definitive conclusions can be made regarding their relationship. So don't act like they can be.

In essence, you're defending cops for murdering an innocent man right now.

[manufan10]

Now she's gone from a drug dealer/druggie to a hooker. :lol

[manufan10]

So you're ok with them shooting with bystanders around? Idiot! Ricochets can occur. Anything can happen when you shoot a gun. They're lucky they didn't hit an innocent person.


Yes rushing a vehicle is a the way to get him to answer questions. :rolleyes Running at them at guns isn't going to cause a shootout? I understand they're in danger, hence the calling for backup. Or at least doing more leg work and not try and go after the guy military style. It was a stupid move. Irresponsible. There were better ways of handling the situation.

[manufan10]

There's no way to justify the killing of Pastor Ayers. Now matter how you try to spin it, the cops screwed up. A man is now dead. A woman is left without her husband and is going to have to raise her kid as a single mom. This child is going to grow up never knowing his/her father. Why? Because these officers needlessly shot at this guy.

[Homeland Security]

If the pastor had been black, exstatic would be screaming bloody murder about police oppression.

Since it's a white pastor, exstatic is more than happy to label him a drug-dealing john.

[EricB]

Gotta love people that have never been in the situation like those cops were in saying "how could you shoot at that person"

Fucking noobs.

[InRareForm]

Gotta love people that have never been in the situation like those cops were in saying "how could you shoot at that person"

Fucking noobs.

FOH! why would i shoot someone when they aren't known to be violent? I wouldn't put myself in that situation in the first place. too bad these damn undercover cops didn't how to do a smarter, ordeally arrest. Instead they go to a gas station and use guns? Real smart cops there.... :rolleyes

All you need in this situation is a brain and some common sense.

[Kori Ellis]

Sad case. By what I see on that video, I don't see why they were shooting at him. They weren't in danger, he was driving away. The police protocol at that point would be to pursue his vehicle.

[chode_regulator]

Sad case. By what I see on that video, I don't see why they were shooting at him. They weren't in danger, he was driving away. The police protocol at that point would be to pursue his vehicle.

If I had just been ran over you can be damn sure I'm firing at the dumbass.
I cant help but shake my head at all the people who are refusing to see this from the cops standpoint. The dude ran one of them over, and took off. Again, why let it escalate to a high speed chase? Why not end it there?
The only way I see this ending better, and I can't believe no one has brought this up yet, is why didn't they just blcok him in when they pulled up?

AND most importantly, if you are in a crowded place and more than one person is running at you yelling police, theyre probably the fuckiing police. This wasnt a country road at 3 a.m. and a hot chick with big tits and a low cut shirt is getting pulled over by a 1981 el camino.

LMAO at the people who are claiming badges as bling and saying they cant see the badge in the video. well no shit sherlock, a surveillance video is grainy, I never knew. :lol

Lesson learned here, and to be honest in most cases in the news, respect the cops authority and if you have a problem with what he did, file a complaint afterwards. The chances of him being a fake cop are pretty damn small.

[mouse]

Fucking noobs.

Just when I thought you took one step froward.......you take two steps back.

[mouse]

If I had just been ran over you can be damn sure I'm firing at the dumbass.


People get run over everyday, are you saying they all need to be shot?
Is that the beer talking,.... or your semi redneck way of saying
"I love to hunt three times a week while listening to my favorite Ted Nugent songs" trailer park logic?

What if the person behind the wheel was a child or a mentally challenged person or someone having a stroke or seizer? Is the gun all you wannabe ATF agents think about? This is not Waco and the Man was not David Koresh so put down the Dickerson whiskey at 10.00 dollars for a 5 gallon jug you buy twice a week from Dale the racist liquor store manger who you bowl with every Wednesday night. You simple minded wall mart shopping fool.

[Bigzax]

nobody got fucking run over.

the dude panicked and was getting the fuck outa dodge...backwards.

glad the cop was alert and got the fuck outa the way.

[The Franchise]

If I had just been ran over you can be damn sure I'm firing at the dumbass.
I cant help but shake my head at all the people who are refusing to see this from the cops standpoint. The dude ran one of them over, and took off. Again, why let it escalate to a high speed chase? Why not end it there?
The only way I see this ending better, and I can't believe no one has brought this up yet, is why didn't they just blcok him in when they pulled up?

AND most importantly, if you are in a crowded place and more than one person is running at you yelling police, theyre probably the fuckiing police. This wasnt a country road at 3 a.m. and a hot chick with big tits and a low cut shirt is getting pulled over by a 1981 el camino.

LMAO at the people who are claiming badges as bling and saying they cant see the badge in the video. well no shit sherlock, a surveillance video is grainy, I never knew. :lol

Lesson learned here, and to be honest in most cases in the news, respect the cops authority and if you have a problem with what he did, file a complaint afterwards. The chances of him being a fake cop are pretty damn small.


Gotta love people that have never been in the situation like those cops were in saying "how could you shoot at that person"

Fucking noobs.


You apparently are either ignoring what I write or can't read. You asked the question before, and I said I thought he was a John. That would make a preacher run from the cops.

I've never read so many excuses for killing an innocent man. I don't know wether to be angry or sad. :(

[Wild Cobra]

You're a dumbass. If you hit a police officer with a vehicle, it is treated as assault with a deadly weapon. At that point, the cops can defend themselves.

Trigger happy, lmao.
That cannot apply uder the circumstances seen.

If someone chases after me with a gun, I will run them down. They are the perceived threat to me. I have the right to act.

If you make illegal to take action against any police officer just because he is a police officer, we are then a police state. Especially when they are not in uniform.

The badge is not a right to indiscriminately kill. Undercover cops are trained for such things to. The guy shooting, without a doubt, is guilty.

[Wild Cobra]

Because they're working a drug ring sting, and they have NO FUCKING IDEA he's just a preacher? This isn't random dude they want to ask questions of. He had contact with a subject in their investigation in a manner that suggested illegal activity. In a drug bust, you ALWAYS have your guns unholstered and safeties off.

Do you have any idea how drug enforcement police work is done? Because your question seems sort of stupid, in a pollyanna-ish naive way.
It is a dangerous job, but that does not give then the right to shoot first, and ask questions later.

How can you defend the police action?

[Wild Cobra]

You two continue patting yourselves on the back and group thinking. They know who the girl is, and she will eventually be picked up, and we'll find out what happened between the hooker and the preacher.
It doesn't matter what she says. The police shot an innocent man who appears to be fleeing from an armed robbery. Unless you are going to contend Judge Dread has the right to be the judge, jury, and executioner against a john.

[Homeland Security]

Hey, if you're going to have decent security, occasionally the cops will have to kill some innocent people. There's no reason for that guy to be hanging out in a neighborhood like that. He was asking for trouble.

Don't try to be one of those bleeding hearts who goes into the ghetto and tries to "help" people. They're beyond help.

[I. Hustle]

All you idiots that say he had no business there and that the shooting is justified are idiots. So is everyone that is saying that we have never been in those cops shoes well guess what dumbass neither have you. There is training that they go through and I doubt that they are taught to rush the vehicles of people THAT ARE NOT suspects and start shooting when they scare that person.

Who says he had no business in a "neighborhood like that"? Just because you are a punk bitch and too scared to go somewhere like that doesn't mean that other people are scared little punks.

[manufan10]

If I had just been ran over you can be damn sure I'm firing at the dumbass.

Lesson learned here, and to be honest in most cases in the news, respect the cops authority and if you have a problem with what he did, file a complaint afterwards. The chances of him being a fake cop are pretty damn small.

First of all, the agent wasn't ran over, he was hit by the car. Why? Because these agents jumped out of a black SUV, with tinted windows, plain clothes, and guns drawn. It just so happens that he's in the bad part of the neighborhood. What do you want him to do? Do you honestly think you would sit there as two armed men are running towards you? I wouldn't. So he puts it in reverse, and hits one of the guys.

To the second part of the quote, this guy will never get the chance to file a complaint. These agents decided to shoot first and ask questions later. Not a very good decision. 1.) They killed an innocent man. 2.) They were shooting at a gas station. 3.) There were witnesses around. What if they missed? What if one of the bullets ricocheted and hit someone? There's too many bad instances that could have occurred. Sadly, there was one, but thankfully it was only one. It could have been a lot worse.

[Kori Ellis]

If I had just been ran over you can be damn sure I'm firing at the dumbass.
I cant help but shake my head at all the people who are refusing to see this from the cops standpoint. The dude ran one of them over, and took off.


Nobody was ran over.


Again, why let it escalate to a high speed chase? Why not end it there?
The only way I see this ending better, and I can't believe no one has brought this up yet, is why didn't they just blcok him in when they pulled up?


I think escalating into a high speed chase might have been better than shooting repeatedly in a very crowded area. There probably would have been no chase because the pastor would have realized they were cops and pulled over. And yeah, blocking him in would have been smart.



AND most importantly, if you are in a crowded place and more than one person is running at you yelling police, theyre probably the fuckiing police. This wasnt a country road at 3 a.m. and a hot chick with big tits and a low cut shirt is getting pulled over by a 1981 el camino.

LMAO at the people who are claiming badges as bling and saying they cant see the badge in the video. well no shit sherlock, a surveillance video is grainy, I never knew. :lol

Lesson learned here, and to be honest in most cases in the news, respect the cops authority and if you have a problem with what he did, file a complaint afterwards. The chances of him being a fake cop are pretty damn small.

I am almost always on the police side of things, but in this case, I think they could have easily avoided having to shoot anyone. If they had surveillance on the girl, then they already ran the plate of the pastor's vehicle and knew who he was. They weren't in fear for their lives thinking he was a gun-weilding drug dealer. He was just a pastor who panicked and tried to speed away.

[Extra Stout]

There was no need to confront the driver with weapons drawn on the premises of the gas station.

There was no probable cause to apprehend the driver. The driver was entirely within his rights not to answer questions and drive away if he so chose.

They could have run his plate, gotten his address, and showed up at his house later to ask questions, and 99% chance he would have answered them.

If I saw two people in plainclothes with weapons drawn coming towards me, I would assume I was being carjacked. In two or three seconds, I am not going to process that these are "police." I am going to panic and get the hell out of there.

Everything the police were saying about thinking there was a drug deal going on, or that the driver was coming towards them in a "threatening manner," is contradicted by the videotape. The driver had just come out of the convenience store and was getting back in his car. The tape shows the driver backing up, then going into drive to turn and try to get away. The officers are firing at him as he is trying to get away. They are not shooting because they are in danger; they are shooting to keep a person they have no authority to detain from escaping.

The officers are lying because they killed a man for no reason. Their decision-making and the results betray a poorly-trained, overly-aggressive rural drug task force.

It is occurrences like this that drive me further and further towards the conclusion that the War of Drugs is a waste of time, money, and lives. If police really have to resort to those kinds of tactics where they end up killing innocent bystanders, then maybe we should learn our lesson from Prohibition.

[I. Hustle]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fOBnx3nYQ3k/Rq59VAZydfI/AAAAAAAAAac/qMo-mbSMHRc/s400/69_1.jpg

[Extra Stout]

I wonder how many innocent people who are not so apparently squeaky-clean get killed by the drug cops?

And I wonder why so many people are so willing to tolerate increasingly authoritarian conduct from all levels of government? Is this Weimar America?

[chode_regulator]

blah blah blah...blah blah

blah blah blah blah blah blah.....blah blah

there i saved ya'll from the trouble of trying to read and look at it from another view. just go ahead and type in whatever extreme view you want to take and talk about how a local cop bust gone wrong is the latest evidence to a tyrannical govt and how i should be worried about black helo's showing up in themiddle of the night and agents in black will wisk me away to obama's socialist/nazi/communist/insert whatever hot topic word you can think of here camps and re configure my hard drive so i will be no more than a mere puppet of the govt regime.

And for the dumbasses, helo is short for helicopter. :downspin:

[manufan10]

^ Way to go off the deepend man.

[chode_regulator]

That was the deepend? :lol

[nuclearfm]

I hate the local police in this state, really. I am convinced we could do much better without them. These local cops do a terrible job when required and hardly serve beyond the call of duty. The ones that do, are outliers and deserve to be in the FBI or a State trooper. If you need to file a police report from a multi county theft, they often pass it on to other jrusidictions in a never ending game

We could just expand the state trooper count and juridiction and be just fine.