Sarah Posts Again

[SnakeBoy]

I wonder if she'll make Obama run around telling everyone he's not going to kill grandma again.


Written Testimony Submitted to the New York State Senate Aging Committee
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Today at 3:49pm
Senator Reverend Ruben Diaz
Chair, New York Senate Aging Committee
Legislative Office Building
Room 307
Albany, NY 12247

September 8, 2009

RE: H.R. 3200: America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 and Its Impact on Senior Citizens

Dear Senator Diaz,

Thank you for asking me to participate in the New York State Senate Aging Committee’s hearing regarding H.R. 3200, “America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009.” You and I share a commitment to ensuring that our health care system is not “reformed” at the expense of America’s senior citizens.

I have been vocal in my opposition to Section 1233 of H.R.3200, entitled “Advance Care Planning Consultation.”[1] Proponents of the bill have described this section as an entirely voluntary provision that simply increases the information offered to Medicare recipients. That is misleading. The issue is the context in which that information is provided and the coercive effect these consultations will have in that context.

Section 1233 authorizes advanced care planning consultations for senior citizens on Medicare every five years, and more often “if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual … or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a long-term care facility… or a hospice program.”[2] During those consultations, practitioners are to explain “the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,” and the government benefits available to pay for such services.[3]

To understand this provision fully, it must be read in context. These consultations are authorized whenever a Medicare recipient’s health changes significantly or when they enter a nursing home, and they are part of a bill whose stated purpose is “to reduce the growth in health care spending.”[4] Is it any wonder that senior citizens might view such consultations as attempts to convince them to help reduce health care costs by accepting minimal end-of-life care? As one commentator has noted, Section 1233 “addresses compassionate goals in disconcerting proximity to fiscal ones…. If it’s all about obviating suffering, emotional or physical, what’s it doing in a measure to ‘bend the curve’ on health-care costs?”[5]

As you stated in your letter to Congressman Henry Waxman of California:

Section 1233 of House Resolution 3200 puts our senior citizens on a slippery slope and may diminish respect for the inherent dignity of each of their lives…. It is egregious to consider that any senior citizen … should be placed in a situation where he or she would feel pressured to save the government money by dying a little sooner than he or she otherwise would, be required to be counseled about the supposed benefits of killing oneself, or be encouraged to sign any end of life directives that they would not otherwise sign.[6]

It is unclear whether section 1233 or a provision like it will remain part of any final health care bill. Regardless of its fate, the larger issue of rationed health care remains.

A great deal of attention was given to my use of the phrase “death panel” in discussing such rationing.[7] Despite repeated attempts by many in the media to dismiss this phrase as a “myth”, its accuracy has been vindicated. In the face of a nationwide public outcry, the Senate Finance Committee agreed to “drop end-of-life provisions from consideration entirely because of the way they could be misinterpreted and implemented incorrectly.”[8] Jim Towey, the former head of the White House Office of Faith-Based Initiatives, then called attention to what’s already occurring at the Department of Veteran’s Affairs, where “government bureaucrats are greasing the slippery slope that can start with cost containment but quickly become a systematic denial of care.”[9] Even Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson, a strong supporter of President Obama, agreed that “if the government says it has to control health care costs and then offers to pay doctors to give advice about hospice care, citizens are not delusional to conclude that the goal is to reduce end-of-life spending.”[10] And of course President Obama has not backed away from his support for the creation of an unelected, largely unaccountable Independent Medicare Advisory Council to help control Medicare costs; he had previously suggested that such a group should guide decisions regarding “that huge driver of cost . . . the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives….”[11]

The fact is that any group of government bureaucrats that makes decisions affecting life or death is essentially a “death panel.” The work of Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, President Obama’s health policy advisor and the brother of his chief of staff, is particularly disturbing on this score. Dr. Emanuel has written extensively on the topic of rationed health care, describing a “Complete Lives System” for allotting medical care based on “a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.”[12]

He also has written that some medical services should not be guaranteed to those “who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens…. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.”[13]

Such ideas are shocking, but they could ultimately be used by government bureacrats to help determine the treatment of our loved ones. We must ensure that human dignity remains at the center of any proposed health care reform. Real health care reform would also follow free market principles, including the encouragement of health savings accounts; would remove the barriers to purchasing health insurance across state lines; and would include tort reform so as to potentially save billions each year in wasteful spending connected to the filing of frivolous lawsuits. H.R. 3200 is not the reform we are looking for.

Thank you for calling attention to this important matter. I look forward to working with you again to ensure that we keep the dignity of our senior citizens foremost in any health care discussion.

Sincerely,

Governor Sarah Palin

1 See http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
2 See HR 3200 sec. 1233 (hhh)(1); sec. 1233 (hhh)(3)(B)(1), above.
3 See HR 3200 sec. 1233 (hhh)(1)(E), above.
4 See http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
5 See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/07/AR2009080703043.html
6 See http://www.nysenate.gov/press-release/letter-congressman-henry-waxman-re-section-1233-hr-3200
7 See http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=113851103434
8 See http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/54617-finance-committee-to-drop-end-of-life-provision
9 See http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204683204574358590107981718.html
10 See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/10/AR2009081002455.html
11 See http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/magazine/03Obama-t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1
12 See http://www.scribd.com/doc/18280675/Principles-for-Allocation-of-Scarce-Medical-Interventions
13 See http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/Where_Civic_Republicanism_and_Deliberative_Democra cy_Meet.pdf

[Yonivore]

I wonder if she'll make Obama run around telling everyone he's not going to kill grandma again.
Probably.

[ChumpDumper]

Death panels!

[Nbadan]

They're gonna kill Grandma! :lol Sarah Palin

[Yonivore]

They're gonna kill Grandma! :lol Sarah Palin
Or, ration her care and allow her to die prematurely.

[Nbadan]

...by offering end of life counseling? reach much?

[Yonivore]

...by offering end of life counseling? reach much?
No, by deciding to administer palliative care when a pacemaker might actually extend her life.

By being so presumptuous as to decide if she gets the blue pill or the red pill.

By wanting to model a national health care system -- even remotely -- after this:

Sentenced to death on the NHS (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6127514/Sentenced-to-death-on-the-NHS.html)

A "death panel" made that call

Or this:

'Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211950/Premature-baby-left-die-doctors-mother-gives-birth-just-days-22-week-care-limit.html)

Yep, another "death panel" decision.

Look, you can't give health care away, reduce its cost, and not ration. It's that simple.

Rationing Care = Death Panel

[clambake]

No, by deciding to administer palliative care when a pacemaker might actually extend her life.

By being so presumptuous as to decide if she gets the blue pill or the red pill.

By wanting to model a national health care system -- even remotely -- after this:

Sentenced to death on the NHS (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6127514/Sentenced-to-death-on-the-NHS.html)

A "death panel" made that call

Or this:

'Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211950/Premature-baby-left-die-doctors-mother-gives-birth-just-days-22-week-care-limit.html)

Yep, another "death panel" decision.

Look, you can't give health care away, reduce its cost, and not ration. It's that simple.

Rationing Care = Death Panel

:lol

[ChumpDumper]

If you repeat the lie enough times, you'll think it's true.

[Yonivore]

:lol
I'm glad you're amused...

[Nbadan]

Don't insurance companies have people called actuaries that make these types of decisions all the time?

[ChumpDumper]

Don't insurance companies have people called actuaries that make these types of decisions all the time?They've decided in many states that women can be denied coverage if they have the dreaded pre-existing condition of....






....pregnancy....

[Yonivore]

Don't insurance companies have people called actuaries that make these types of decisions all the time?
A) I don't want my government making those decisions.

B) Most insurance policies spell out the conditions before you pay a single penny in premiums.

C) Governments have a nasty habit of changing the rules after the fact.

D) I can always mortgage my life to seek treatment outside my insurance company. Under a single-payer system, that's not necessarily an option.

[ChumpDumper]

Who said anything about a single payer system?

Oh yeah, repeating lies....

[BadMoodBob]

^^ Obama.

[SnakeBoy]

Who said anything about a single payer system?


p-bY92mcOdk

[ChumpDumper]

Hey, an old YouTube!

Is a single payer system in any of the current bills?

[BadMoodBob]

Weak stuff Chump.

[ChumpDumper]

So is a single payer system in any of the current bills?

[BadMoodBob]

Is that how they play the game Chump?

Quit acting naive. Your shtick is old and tired.

[SnakeBoy]

Bob's right Chump, that's really weak. C'mon you can do better than that.

[ChumpDumper]

I'll ask again -- is a single payer system in any of the current bills?

[SnakeBoy]

I'll ask again -- is a single payer system in any of the current bills?

:lol Damn, I guess you can't do better. Disappointing.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I don't want a single payer system. Is it in any of the bills?

[Shastafarian]

Obviously even if the language is not in the bill, President Lenin will make sure it turns into a single-payer system. God CD, why are you so dense?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Obviously even if the language is not in the bill, President Lenin will make sure it turns into a single-payer system. God CD, why are you so dense?

It's like connecting the dots....

[ChumpDumper]

:lol Damn, I guess you can't do better. Disappointing.Why can't you answer the question?

[Yonivore]

Hey, Clambake, when did you become a MSNBC analyst?

VvIHIlR-iVg
Calling Obamacare opponents racists only proves you have no argument. It also reveals you only see him as a black person.

I opposed HillaryCare for the same reasons I oppose ObamaCare. I've opposed it when it was championed by Edward Kennedy and John Kerry too.

How does that fit into the "racist" rhetoric?


Obviously even if the language is not in the bill, President Lenin will make sure it turns into a single-payer system. God CD, why are you so dense?


fpAyan1fXCE

Need a more contemporaneous example of the plan?


f3BS4C9el98

You know, when you write mammoth legislation that nobody bothers to read and you refuse to allow it proper public scrutiny, you can put a whole lot of shit in there that you wouldn't admit in public.

Many on here claim that HB3200 isn't even Obama's Health Care Plan. So, just what is his plan? I guess we're supposed to find out tomorrow evening but, I think we'll be left wanting...

[ChumpDumper]

So single payer is not in any of the current bills.

Thanks.

[Yonivore]

In their own words.

p-bY92mcOdk

[ChumpDumper]

You just posted a video saying there was no single payer system in the current bills.

Thanks again.

[Yonivore]

Those videos usually derail the argument for lefties...

Most reasonable people recognize these videos are problematic for the president when he's trying to convince us that a single-payer system isn't his ultimate intent.

[ChumpDumper]

So there is no single payer system in the current bills.

Thanks!

[nuclearfm]

Those videos usually derail the argument for lefties...

Most reasonable people recognize these videos are problematic for the president when he's trying to convince us that a single-payer system isn't his ultimate intent.

It could be his ultimate intent, but you'd have to be delusional if you think that would actually get through congress.

It's the law of extremes. They have to push the extreme options because they are always rebutted by the other extremes. In the end the compromise is near the middle.

[whottt]

Go get em' Sarah! :tu

[whottt]

If you repeat the lie enough times, you'll think it's true.

Oh so that's why you guys keep doing it to Sarah...I see now.

[ChumpDumper]

Doing what to Sarah?

[Yonivore]

It could be his ultimate intent, but you'd have to be delusional if you think that would actually get through congress.
They passed a $787 Billion dollar Stimulus Package that none of them read.


It's the law of extremes. They have to push the extreme options because they are always rebutted by the other extremes. In the end the compromise is near the middle.
He seems willing to take baby steps...

[nuclearfm]

Go get em' Sarah! :tu

I really doubt that Sarah wrote any of that. This is the same woman who literally fumbled all over herself last fall when her intellectualism was tested.

[Yonivore]

I really doubt that Sarah wrote any of that. This is the same woman who literally fumbled all over herself last fall when her intellectualism was tested.
You people misunderestimated George W. Bush into two terms as President.

[nuclearfm]

They passed a $787 Billion dollar Stimulus Package that none of them read.


He seems willing to take baby steps...

Chalk that up to a conspiracy theory. The day we get single payer health care in this nation, of all nations is the day I become an NBA All-star.

[ChumpDumper]

Hey whottt, did you ever disclose the super secret Sarah Palin / Russia government cooperation that Palin couldn't even recall when she was asked?

[nuclearfm]

You people misunderestimated George W. Bush into two terms as President.

What do you mean "You People?"


:lol

[whottt]

I really doubt that Sarah wrote any of that. This is the same woman who literally fumbled all over herself last fall when her intellectualism was tested.

Ahh I see...unlike Obama who writes all of his own shit...Idiot.

[ChumpDumper]

You people misunderestimated George W. Bush into two terms as President.No, I fully understood what a bad president he could be.

I was right.

[nuclearfm]

Hey whottt, did you ever disclose the super secret Sarah Palin / Russia government cooperation that Palin couldn't even recall when she was asked?

Not so upfront with the evidence liberal. Baby steps. Build your case, make them argue FOR you.

[ChumpDumper]

Not so upfront with the evidence liberal. Baby steps. Build your case, make them argue FOR you.Huh?

I just asked him a question. He's been keeping this secret from everybody.

Including Palin.

[nuclearfm]

Ahh I see...unlike Obama who writes all of his own shit...Idiot.

Good Job
:toast

I doubt Obama writes all of his stuff either, but I bet he at least understands it.

[whottt]

Hey whottt, did you ever disclose the super secret Sarah Palin / Russia government cooperation that Palin couldn't even recall when she was asked?

What part of supersecret don't you get?

[whottt]

Good Job
:toast

I doubt Obama writes all of his stuff either, but I bet he at least understands it.

I'll bet he doesn't...he wouldn't be such an economic idiot if he did.

[ChumpDumper]

What part of supersecret don't you get?Why is it supersecret?

[Shastafarian]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/J/L/2/putin-palin.jpg

[Yonivore]

More "death panel" actions...

Daughter claims father wrongly placed on controversial NHS end of life scheme (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6156076/Daughter-claims-father-wrongly-placed-on-controversial-NHS-end-of-life-scheme.html)

[whottt]

Good Job
:toast

I doubt Obama writes all of his stuff either, but I bet he at least understands it.

You aren't spursdotcom in a troll are you? If so I totally apologize and withdraw any and all insults...you'll have my vote for President in the next election should you run BTW :tu

[nuclearfm]

I'll bet he doesn't...he wouldn't be such an economic idiot if he did.

Thankfully, most economists are idiots. Chalk that one of Alan Greenspan, Ben Benarnke and the rest

[Yonivore]

What do you mean "You People?"


:lol
You people that speak as if Sarah Palin has no chance because of your perceived assessment of her intellect based on a couple of statements from an interview.

omHUsRTYFAU

[whottt]

People who know what to do with money don't become economists...

[Shastafarian]

You people that speak as if Sarah Palin has no chance because of your perceived assessment of her intellect based on a couple of statements from an interview.


And the fact it took her 5 colleges to get a degree in communications. Or any instance when she was put on the spot and tripped over her own mouth.

[nuclearfm]

People who know what to do with money don't become economists...

:lol

Yeah, true. Some of them who also have the appearance of knowing what to do money, do not know. Donal Trump for one, if it wasn't for the bankruptcy system he would have been gutted and sold for meat few times by now.

[whottt]

Bankruptcy is one of the best ways to become filthy rich that there is....easiest anyway.

[Shastafarian]

Bankruptcy is one of the best ways to become filthy rich that there is....

You on your way?

[nuclearfm]

You people that speak as if Sarah Palin has no chance because of your perceived assessment of her intellect based on a couple of statements from an interview.

omHUsRTYFAU

Absolutely not. It was just not a couple statements, it was her entire platform and lack thereof. There are far better people with conservatives views with intellectual backing. Christine Smith from the Libertarian party for one.

[nuclearfm]

You aren't spursdotcom in a troll are you? If so I totally apologize and withdraw any and all insults...you'll have my vote for President in the next election should you run BTW :tu

Actually, I'm a terrorist trying to infiltrate U.S. political system. You have wrong person.

[Yonivore]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/J/L/2/putin-palin.jpg

Air Force intercepts Russian bombers off Alaska (http://alaskareport.com/news31/z51137_russian_bombers.htm)


The last case of Russian aircraft approaching the U.S. coastline or ships in the Pacific was in February.

Then, four Bear bombers flew near the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz, with one of them flying about 2,000 feet from the Nimitz's deck.
Seems to be a fairly common occurrence in Alaska...this article was written in March and they refer to the "last case" as having happened the previous month.

[ChumpDumper]

Air Force intercepts Russian bombers off Alaska (http://alaskareport.com/news31/z51137_russian_bombers.htm)


Seems to be a fairly common occurrence in Alaska...this article was written in March and they refer to the "last case" as having happened the previous month.What did Palin have to do with that?

[Shastafarian]

I mean, if these aren't the words of an intelligent person, I don't know what are.


But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the healthcare reform that is needed to help shore up our economy. Um, helping, oh -- it's got to be all about job creation too. Shoring up our economy, and putting it back on the right track. So healthcare reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions, and tax relief for Americans, and trade, we've got to see trade as opportunity, not as a competitive, um, scary thing, but 1 in 5 jobs being created in the trade sector today. We've got to look at that as more opportunity. All of those things under the umbrella of job creation. This bailout is a part of that.

[whottt]

you on your way?
gfy
ead
stfy
ts-pim-pt

[Shastafarian]

Air Force intercepts Russian bombers off Alaska (http://alaskareport.com/news31/z51137_russian_bombers.htm)

Was she in charge of deploying those planes before she quit?

[nuclearfm]

What did Palin have to do with that?

She ordered the response. Who do you think controls the Alaskan National Guard Which in turns controls the US air force and NATO?

The Governor of Alaska.

[Yonivore]

Air Force commander talks about state, Arctic and Russia (http://www.newsminer.com/news/2009/jul/15/air-force-commander-talks-about-state-arctic-and-r/)


This year [2009], there have been 13 Russian bomber flights near Alaska, some of which included fighter escorts, Atkins said. In the past, it would be “politically embarrassing” for the Russians to conduct such flights while a U.S. leader is visiting the Russian president, but the general said the Russians conducted three such flights during President Obama’s recent visit to Moscow. He said the Russian “disappointment” in recent U.S. actions could be behind the increased number of flights. “Maybe they’re trying to do things to disappoint us or give them greater global clout,” Atkins said.

[ChumpDumper]

Air Force commander talks about state, Arctic and Russia (http://www.newsminer.com/news/2009/jul/15/air-force-commander-talks-about-state-arctic-and-r/)What does Palin have to do with that?

[Shastafarian]

Again, what does this have to do with Palin?

[Yonivore]

Was she in charge of deploying those planes before she quit?
The comment wasn't about her responsibilities; the comment...

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/J/L/2/putin-palin.jpg

...implied Palin was full of shit when she talked about the Russian threat to Alaska.

[whottt]

I mean, if these aren't the words of an intelligent person, I don't know what are.

KbpWonUzlrc
EpGH02DtIws
cOTfnz11kBk

[Yonivore]

Again, what does this have to do with Palin?
Just pointing out she had a better grasp of the Russian threat to Russian that do a bunch of idiots in this forum.

[Shastafarian]

...implied Palin was full of shit when she talked about the Russian threat to Alaska.

I don't believe she was talking about a Russian threat to Alaska.

[nuclearfm]

Again, what does this have to do with Palin?

She is general of the Alaskan Air Force. This is the title ex-Governors usually take.

[whottt]

Seriously, your dude gets his ass kicked by 1st grade geography, you lose the right to ever refer to anyone else as stupid, again.

[Shastafarian]

Just pointing out she had a better grasp of the Russian threat to Russian that do a bunch of idiots in this forum.

There's a Russian threat to Alaska? Have the Alaskans been notified? Have the Russians ever attacked Alaska?

[ChumpDumper]

The comment wasn't about her responsibilities; the comment...

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/J/L/2/putin-palin.jpg

...implied Palin was full of shit when she talked about the Russian threat to Alaska.This was part of her answer to a specific question about her foreign relations experience with Russia.

So again, what does that have to do with Palin?

[Shastafarian]

Seriously, your dude gets his ass kicked by 1st grade geography, you lose the right to ever refer to anyone else as stupid, again.

Not really. I can call someone stupid if they clearly are. They usually don't let stupid people teach law at the University of Chicago.

[Yonivore]

Hey, Shasta, since we have your attention again, can I get your comments to to my earlier post?


Obviously even if the language is not in the bill, President Lenin will make sure it turns into a single-payer system. God CD, why are you so dense?


fpAyan1fXCE

Need a more contemporaneous example of the plan?


f3BS4C9el98

You know, when you write mammoth legislation that nobody bothers to read and you refuse to allow it proper public scrutiny, you can put a whole lot of shit in there that you wouldn't admit in public.

Many on here claim that HB3200 isn't even Obama's Health Care Plan. So, just what is his plan? I guess we're supposed to find out tomorrow evening but, I think we'll be left wanting...

[ChumpDumper]

Hey, Shasta, since we have your attention again, can I get your comments to to my earlier post?




fpAyan1fXCE

Need a more contemporaneous example of the plan?


f3BS4C9el98

You know, when you write mammoth legislation that nobody bothers to read and you refuse to allow it proper public scrutiny, you can put a whole lot of shit in there that you wouldn't admit in public.

Many on here claim that HB3200 isn't even Obama's Health Care Plan. So, just what is his plan? I guess we're supposed to find out tomorrow evening but, I think we'll be left wanting...One thing is for sure.

It's not a single payer system.

Yoni proved that several times over.

[nuclearfm]

Seriously, your dude gets his ass kicked by 1st grade geography, you lose the right to ever refer to anyone else as stupid, again.


YEAH! Right on!

[Shastafarian]

Hey, Shasta, since we have your attention again, can I get your comments to to my earlier post?




fpAyan1fXCE

Need a more contemporaneous example of the plan?


f3BS4C9el98

You know, when you write mammoth legislation that nobody bothers to read and you refuse to allow it proper public scrutiny, you can put a whole lot of shit in there that you wouldn't admit in public.

Many on here claim that HB3200 isn't even Obama's Health Care Plan. So, just what is his plan? I guess we're supposed to find out tomorrow evening but, I think we'll be left wanting...
Yeah so basically there is nothing in any current proposed legislation that would implement single payer. As we all already know. Yet you think they'll slip it in without lube.

[Yonivore]

Yeah so basically there is nothing in any current proposed legislation that would implement single payer. As we all already know. Yet you think they'll slip it in without lube.
Well, I only have their own words to support the suspicion.

[Shastafarian]

Well, I only have their own words to support the suspicion.

What suspicion?

[Yonivore]

What suspicion?
They intend to implement a single-payer health care plan. I'm sorry, I thought you were paying attention.

Technically, Obama's plan isn't written down anywhere...many say HB3200 isn't his plan.

Obama has stated, on more than one occasion, that he would like to see a single-payer health care system in America.

Obama also stated it might take 10-30 years to accomplish that.

This Congress has already demonstrated its willingness to pass mammoth legislation without reading it.

That suspicion.

[whottt]

Not really. I can call someone stupid if they clearly are. They usually don't let stupid people teach law at the University of Chicago.


Good thing they didn't let him teach geography...to anyone.

[whottt]

GkpBd5X0LYY&feature=related


Maybe she could help Obama out.

[Yonivore]

Britain's NHS does Monty Python...

Sentenced to death on the NHS (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6127514/Sentenced-to-death-on-the-NHS.html)

Daughter claims father wrongly placed on controversial NHS end of life scheme (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6156076/Daughter-claims-father-wrongly-placed-on-controversial-NHS-end-of-life-scheme.html)

'Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211950/Premature-baby-left-die-doctors-mother-gives-birth-just-days-22-week-care-limit.html)

I'm reminded...

grbSQ6O6kbs

[ChumpDumper]

So, to sum up -- there is no single payer system in the current bills.

[SnakeBoy]

So, to sum up -- there is no single payer system in the current bills.

because there aren't the votes for it but a governement option is the best way to lead to a single payer system.

[mookie2001]

Hey, an old YouTube!

thats what every forum on this site has come to

we need to disable text and just communicate through youtubes

[ChumpDumper]

because there aren't the votes for it but a governement option is the best way to lead to a single payer system.So what you're saying is there is no single payer system in the current bills.

[Yonivore]

What suspicion?
Let's also remember this is a president that stood flat-footed and told the American Public he was proud to have signed an earmark-free Stimulus Bill that actually contained over 9,000 of them.

I think he's capable of lying his ass off. And, if you've even attempted to read any of the 1,000+ pages of the HR3200, they could be hiding anything in there. In fact, when I last reviewed it, there were blank sections that hadn't even been written yet.

[whottt]

I think he's capable of lying his ass off.


Ummm...he's a lawyer, and a politician, he's a lot more than capable of it, he's received the highest training there is on it.

I personally don't care if politicians lie...I care about what the lies are attempting to cover up and whether not America is going to benefit from them or if someone else is. Right now I think China owns our government.

[Wild Cobra]

Bob's right Chump, that's really weak. C'mon you can do better than that.
Chump has become nothing but a low life hack. I placed him on IGNORE.

[Wild Cobra]

You people misunderestimated George W. Bush into two terms as President.
That was his well planned strategery.

[ChumpDumper]

Chump has become nothing but a low life hack. I placed him on IGNORE.:rollin

It's ok, WC -- you wouldn't answer the question either.

[ploto]

Who cares what she has to say-- really? I could have sworn she wanted out of the spotlight.

[SnakeBoy]

I could have sworn she wanted out of the spotlight.

Nope.


Obama and the Bureaucratization of Health Care
The president's proposals would give unelected officials life-and-death rationing powers.
By SARAH PALIN
Writing in the New York Times last month, President Barack Obama asked that Americans "talk with one another, and not over one another" as our health-care debate moves forward.
I couldn't agree more. Let's engage the other side's arguments, and let's allow Americans to decide for themselves whether the Democrats' health-care proposals should become governing law.
Some 45 years ago Ronald Reagan said that "no one in this country should be denied medical care because of a lack of funds." Each of us knows that we have an obligation to care for the old, the young and the sick. We stand strongest when we stand with the weakest among us.
We also know that our current health-care system too often burdens individuals and businesses—particularly small businesses—with crippling expenses. And we know that allowing government health-care spending to continue at current rates will only add to our ever-expanding deficit.
How can we ensure that those who need medical care receive it while also reducing health-care costs? The answers offered by Democrats in Washington all rest on one principle: that increased government involvement can solve the problem. I fundamentally disagree.
Common sense tells us that the government's attempts to solve large problems more often create new ones. Common sense also tells us that a top-down, one-size-fits-all plan will not improve the workings of a nationwide health-care system that accounts for one-sixth of our economy. And common sense tells us to be skeptical when President Obama promises that the Democrats' proposals "will provide more stability and security to every American."
With all due respect, Americans are used to this kind of sweeping promise from Washington. And we know from long experience that it's a promise Washington can't keep.
Let's talk about specifics. In his Times op-ed, the president argues that the Democrats' proposals "will finally bring skyrocketing health-care costs under control" by "cutting . . . waste and inefficiency in federal health programs like Medicare and Medicaid and in unwarranted subsidies to insurance companies . . . ."
First, ask yourself whether the government that brought us such "waste and inefficiency" and "unwarranted subsidies" in the first place can be believed when it says that this time it will get things right. The nonpartistan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) doesn't think so: Its director, Douglas Elmendorf, told the Senate Budget Committee in July that "in the legislation that has been reported we do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount."
Now look at one way Mr. Obama wants to eliminate inefficiency and waste: He's asked Congress to create an Independent Medicare Advisory Council—an unelected, largely unaccountable group of experts charged with containing Medicare costs. In an interview with the New York Times in April, the president suggested that such a group, working outside of "normal political channels," should guide decisions regarding that "huge driver of cost . . . the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives . . . ."
Given such statements, is it any wonder that many of the sick and elderly are concerned that the Democrats' proposals will ultimately lead to rationing of their health care by—dare I say it—death panels? Establishment voices dismissed that phrase, but it rang true for many Americans. Working through "normal political channels," they made themselves heard, and as a result Congress will likely reject a wrong-headed proposal to authorize end-of-life counseling in this cost-cutting context. But the fact remains that the Democrats' proposals would still empower unelected bureaucrats to make decisions affecting life or death health-care matters. Such government overreaching is what we've come to expect from this administration.
Speaking of government overreaching, how will the Democrats' proposals affect the deficit? The CBO estimates that the current House proposal not only won't reduce the deficit but will actually increase it by $239 billion over 10 years. Only in Washington could a plan that adds hundreds of billions to the deficit be hailed as a cost-cutting measure.
The economic effects won't be limited to abstract deficit numbers; they'll reach the wallets of everyday Americans. Should the Democrats' proposals expand health-care coverage while failing to curb health-care inflation rates, smaller paychecks will result. A new study for Watson Wyatt Worldwide by Steven Nyce and Syl Schieber concludes that if the government expands health-care coverage while health-care inflation continues to rise "the higher costs would drive disposable wages downward across most of the earnings spectrum, although the declines would be steepest for lower-earning workers." Lower wages are the last thing Americans need in these difficult economic times.
Finally, President Obama argues in his op-ed that Democrats' proposals "will provide every American with some basic consumer protections that will finally hold insurance companies accountable." Of course consumer protection sounds like a good idea. And it's true that insurance companies can be unaccountable and unresponsive institutions—much like the federal government. That similarity makes this shift in focus seem like nothing more than an attempt to deflect attention away from the details of the Democrats' proposals—proposals that will increase our deficit, decrease our paychecks, and increase the power of unaccountable government technocrats.
Instead of poll-driven "solutions," let's talk about real health-care reform: market-oriented, patient-centered, and result-driven. As the Cato Institute's Michael Cannon and others have argued, such policies include giving all individuals the same tax benefits received by those who get coverage through their employers; providing Medicare recipients with vouchers that allow them to purchase their own coverage; reforming tort laws to potentially save billions each year in wasteful spending; and changing costly state regulations to allow people to buy insurance across state lines. Rather than another top-down government plan, let's give Americans control over their own health care.
Democrats have never seriously considered such ideas, instead rushing through their own controversial proposals. After all, they don't need Republicans to sign on: Democrats control the House, the Senate and the presidency. But if passed, the Democrats' proposals will significantly alter a large sector of our economy. They will not improve our health care. They will not save us money. And, despite what the president says, they will not "provide more stability and security to every American."
We often hear such overblown promises from Washington. With first principles in mind and with the facts in hand, tell them that this time we're not buying it.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203440104574400581157986024.html

[George Gervin's Afro]

Still nothing on a single payer system. I guess it's kind of curious that those who throw those words around freely can't prove anything in regards to a single payer system. So I guess the debate is over. Obama is not going to implement a single payer system.

[whottt]

Who cares what she has to say-- really?

Obviously, people that click and post in threads about her.






I could have sworn she wanted out of the spotlight.

Obviously, you were wrong. That's what happens when you jump to the first negative conclusion you can.



I used to date this Muslim Girl from Pakistan...she told me stories of how she was treated...she was raped at the age of 4 and they not only did not fire the house boy that did it, they told her it was her fault. They tried to have her institutionalized when she divorced her husband(who beat her) and wanted to have her own career....


They took her child away from her.

She said her father and brothers would beat her into submission whenever she tried to express her own will...


I asked her, where was your mother when all this was going on?

You know what she said?


My mother was usually the one holding me down and calling for them to come beat me.

[whottt]

Nope.

Proof the woman just can't handle it when things get tough.

[LnGrrrR]

No, by deciding to administer palliative care when a pacemaker might actually extend her life.

By being so presumptuous as to decide if she gets the blue pill or the red pill.

By wanting to model a national health care system -- even remotely -- after this:

Sentenced to death on the NHS (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6127514/Sentenced-to-death-on-the-NHS.html)

A "death panel" made that call

Or this:

'Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211950/Premature-baby-left-die-doctors-mother-gives-birth-just-days-22-week-care-limit.html)

Yep, another "death panel" decision.

Look, you can't give health care away, reduce its cost, and not ration. It's that simple.

Rationing Care = Death Panel

So what the hell are you complaining about?

Yes, obviously, there will be panels that decide end-of-life, whether through QALYs or some other measure. If you want to get more help after that, pay for it yourself.

What's your point? Are "death panels" bad or not?

[nkdlunch]

freak