The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...

[Clutch City 01]

Listening to the latest BS REPORT podcast with Bill Simmons and Chad Ford, they were talking about how many GMs still think that Gasol trade was not legitmate.


Face it, that trade, if you can even call it that, shifted the balance of powers in the NBA for the last two seasons and will continue to in the near future.


The Grizzlies GM, said the trade was purely financial, which was hard to believe but most of us took his word for it, but then they trade for Zach Randolph, who is a worst player and has a worst contract.


The GM of the Grizz then said they got Randolph to be their 20-10 guy...but how isn't Gasol a better 20-10 player, leader and teammate?!


It makes no sense. There is definitley a conspiracy about. Money perhaps trading parties under the table.


Remember that trade happened the same season the NBA played up the Boston-Lakers rivalry to full effin' effect.

[The_Game]

memphis got Marc Gasol in the Pau trade who has proved to be a very good big man for them.

[polysylab1k]

The Lakers did lost some talents in that trade anyways, some of them like Marc Gasol have already lived up to their values and the latent ones are also expected to bloom off in the near future. I think that is pretty enough to even the trade, and has already made the Gasol trade a whole different story than the trade of Jefferson where the Spurs didn't lose shit, the Spurs only lost some shit for Jefferson at its finest.

[Hooks]

memphis got Marc Gasol in the Pau trade who has proved to be a very good big man for them.


Gasol was the 48th pick in the draft :lol, quit talking like you gave up something for Pau.

[Hooks]

The Lakers did lost some talents in that trade anyways, some of them like Marc Gasol have already lived up to their values and the latent ones are also expected to bloom off in the near future. I think that is pretty enough to even the trade, and has already made the Gasol trade a whole different story than the trade of Jefferson where the Spurs didn't lose shit, the Spurs only lost some shit for Jefferson at its finest.


We lost our 2nd best big man-Thomas, and our best defensive player Bruce Bowen, those two guys actually contributed to the Spurs and could still play. We actually gave up someone and took a gamble.


Put it this way, Thomas should've been the starting Center and Bowen should've been the starting SF.

[polysylab1k]

memphis got Marc Gasol in the Pau trade who has proved to be a very good big man for them.
Additionally Crittenton is also a decent young guy that is expected to have a very bright future, and the first round pick is also pretty valuable as well.

[romain.star]

We lost our 2nd best big man-Thomas, and our best defensive player Bruce Bowen, those two guys actually contributed to the Spurs and could still play. We actually gave up someone and took a gamble.


Put it this way, Thomas should've been the starting Center and Bowen should've been the starting SF.

no way Bowen would have been the starting SF

[polysylab1k]

We lost our 2nd best big man-Thomas, and our best defensive player Bruce Bowen, those two guys actually contributed to the Spurs and could still play. We actually gave up someone and took a gamble.


Put it this way, Thomas should've been the starting Center and Bowen should've been the starting SF.
Findawg was the starting SF for Spurs last season while the starting C was Matt Bonner. BTW Bruce Bowen's retired, and Kurt Thomas is around the same age Bowen and also expected to retire before long, Oberto hasn't announced his retirement yet no one still believes he will ever come back for professional basketball games. Verbally the Spurs just got Jefferson for the only prize of 3 retired or nearly retired players, Thomas is probably valuable for title-chasing teams but not a team on rebuilding mode like the Bucks.

[KSeal]

Listening to the latest BS REPORT podcast with Bill Simmons and Chad Ford, they were talking about how many GMs still think that Gasol trade was not legitmate.


Face it, that trade, if you can even call it that, shifted the balance of powers in the NBA for the last two seasons and will continue to in the near future.


The Grizzlies GM, said the trade was purely financial, which was hard to believe but most of us took his word for it, but then they trade for Zach Randolph, who is a worst player and has a worst contract.


The GM of the Grizz then said they got Randolph to be their 20-10 guy...but how isn't Gasol a better 20-10 player, leader and teammate?!


It makes no sense. There is definitley a conspiracy about. Money perhaps trading parties under the table.


Remember that trade happened the same season the NBA played up the Boston-Lakers rivalry to full effin' effect.

:lol Boo fucking Hoo, get over it already. The Spurs and Cavs just pulled off the exact same kind of trades.

[Hooks]

no way Bowen would have been the starting SF


That's why I said Should've, he started all but 1 game in the 07-08 season (Suspended). That's why we were getting burned all the damn time while people were calling for Bowen to get more playing time. He's the one who shut down the PG's for us. Our lack of offensive firepower and Pop being stubborn is what caused his minutes to go down so much. So he should've been our starting SF had Manu been healthy IMO.

[polysylab1k]

:lol Boo fucking Hoo, get over it already. The Spurs and Cavs just pulled off the exact same kind of trades.
I agree to agree, the trade for Marion was a whole different story than these 3.

[Hooks]

Findawg was the starting SF for Spurs last season while the starting C was Matt Bonner. BTW Bruce Bowen's retired, and Kurt Thomas is around the same age Bowen and also expected to retire before long, Oberto hasn't announced his retirement yet no one still believes he will ever come back for professional basketball games. Verbally the Spurs just got Jefferson for the only prize of 3 retired or nearly retired players, Thomas is probably valuable for title-chasing teams but not a team on rebuilding mode like the Bucks.


The only reason Bruce retired is because he didn't want to play for another team, he's actually loyal unlike some other players who demand trades.

We gave up 2 out of 4 of our big men and our best perimeter defender to a team needed extra money to resign players.

People forget our Roster looked like this after the trade:

Duncan
Bonner
Mason
Parker
Manu
RJ
Finley
Hill
Mason

That trade left us with 1 legit big man-Duncan.
It was by absolute luck that Blair fell to us, and it wasn't guaranteed that the Spurs were going to be able to sign Dyess. We took a big gamble trading for RJ.


You can't really defend the Gasol trade, simple as that.

[polysylab1k]

That's why I said Should've, he started all but 1 game in the 07-08 season (Suspended). That's why we were getting burned all the damn time while people were calling for Bowen to get more playing time. He's the one who shut down the PG's for us. Our lack of offensive firepower and Pop being stubborn is what caused his minutes to go down so much. So he should've been our starting SF had Manu been healthy IMO.

Drifting along your logic, it would be quite easy to justify the Gasol trade when considering what an efficient player Mickie was in his prime, and Findawg was actually the best SG around the league during the first 3 years of post-Jordan era, that said the stale package of Oberto, KT and Bowen would have been reversed into a decent one if Findawg had been injected in. If Bowen is still such a nice defender as the prime version, or even nearly half as good as he was in his prime, then I do think he should play more seasons before retiring or at least fulfill the final year of his contract. But what happened was, he demanded a buy-out and retired soon after getting waived.

[polysylab1k]

The only reason Bruce retired is because he didn't want to play for another team, he's actually loyal unlike some other players who demand trades.

We gave up 2 out of 4 of our big men and our best perimeter defender to a team needed extra money to resign players.

People forget our Roster looked like this after the trade:

Duncan
Bonner
Mason
Parker
Manu
RJ
Finley
Hill
Mason

That trade left us with 1 legit big man-Duncan.
It was by absolute luck that Blair fell to us, and it wasn't guaranteed that the Spurs were going to be able to sign Dyess. We took a big gamble trading for RJ.


You can't really defend the Gasol trade, simple as that.
Kurt Thomas should have been an integral gear in Spurs rotation last season, but Pop didn't reward him so much time as what he deserved, thus it was not a bad move for both Thomas and his team to say bye to each other. Thomas will probably get traded again after the training camp to some contenders whose paints are relatively lacking in defense and toughness, in exchange for some craps and picks. Oberto and Bowen used to be pivotal roles for Spurs in their champion years in 05 and 07, but they both have slumped drastically these years and are no longer competitive enough for the NBA games already.

It's very true that Tim Duncan is the only legit big man on Spurs, but the truth is, many other teams haven't even got one of such legit big men. Except these legit big men like Duncan, Dirk, KG... the rest are left behind by a big margin from the elites while are not widely divided from each other. And such kind of average big players are easy to get from the free market, if the GM is careful enough in observation then it shouldn't be impossible to sign some very decent guys at incredible low prizes like MLE, like Chris Anderson.

[2Cleva]

LA got over on Memphis. Its what pimp franchises do. Deal with it or don't.

[George Gervin's Afro]

LA got over on Memphis. Its what pimp franchises do. Deal with it or don't.

Yes. Let's move on from the raping of the girzzlies..

[21_Blessings]

Spurs fans have no ground to stand on here when they got Jefferson for a couple cigarette butts. Or maybe you guys could blatantly tank your season for the 1st pick in the draft again.

Memphis came out a much bigger winner than Milwaukee did in comparison. Which makes this hypocritical thread even more hilarious.

[Trainwreck2100]

\

Memphis came out a much bigger winner than Milwaukee did in comparison. Which makes this hypocritical thread even more hilarious.

yeah cause Zach Randolph will help them more than Pao would have

[Chieflion]

Geez. How many times does this sensitive topic have to come out again?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Spurs fans have no ground to stand on here when they got Jefferson for a couple cigarette butts. Or maybe you guys could blatantly tank your season for the 1st pick in the draft again.

Memphis came out a much bigger winner than Milwaukee did in comparison. Which makes this hypocritical thread even more hilarious.

Don't be stupid. it was a money trade for Milwaukee. Only Thomas' deal was guaranteed while Bowen and Oberto were bought out at half their contract value. Totaled, their contracts were on papaer worth around 7 mill but their buyouts were around half of that so the Bucks saved a load of cash. The griz traded for zac randolph..

[phyzik]

Spurs fans have no ground to stand on here when they got Jefferson for a couple cigarette butts. Or maybe you guys could blatantly tank your season for the 1st pick in the draft again.

Memphis came out a much bigger winner than Milwaukee did in comparison. Which makes this hypocritical thread even more hilarious.

Yes, because tanking a season for a 21.4% chance for the first pick is great franchise business. :rolleyes

Face it, the majority in the NBA think it was a bullshit trade, and that line of thinking is well beyond justified. Marc Gasol was not a known commodity at the time so that argument can be thrown out on its ass.

[Agloco]

Findawg was the starting SF for Spurs last season while the starting C was Matt Bonner. BTW Bruce Bowen's retired, and Kurt Thomas is around the same age Bowen and also expected to retire before long, Oberto hasn't announced his retirement yet no one still believes he will ever come back for professional basketball games. Verbally the Spurs just got Jefferson for the only prize of 3 retired or nearly retired players, Thomas is probably valuable for title-chasing teams but not a team on rebuilding mode like the Bucks.

You Fail.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/12/AR2009081203044.html

[Agloco]

LA bent over Memphis. Pimp franchises do it Colorado style. Deal with it or don't.n

Fixed

[2Cleva]

n

Fixed


Appreciate that. Spurs fans would be the best reference for that anyway, especially with how Kobe has bent them over chairs as well.

[anonoftheinternets]

Appreciate that. Spurs fans would be the best reference for that anyway, especially with how Kobe has bent them over chairs as well.

lakers? isnt that the team that was left in tears in 2003? i tend to forget.

[picc84]

This is like the 15th gasol trade thread on these forums since ive been here. Really guys, we know it was a steal. It was two years ago, you've all got great teams so lets look forward.

[hater]

you do realize Rocketfan made this right?

[2Cleva]

lakers? isnt that the team that was left in tears in 2003? i tend to forget.

I can help

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zURGv9xJLgA/SkSfN3Tl8xI/AAAAAAAAAvw/xnlZAi1-Hdw/s400/shaq_ferry.jpg

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/2080-2/kobe-dunk-full_getty-71796446ab012_spurs_lakers_8_18_42_pm.jpg

http://blog.thekobecollection.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/kobe_vs_spurs_game_winner_gm1.jpg

http://the208.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/fisher-4.jpg

http://hingedman.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/040513_derekfisher_vmed_8pwidec.jpg

http://blogs.bet.com/news/playahater/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/barry.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_M7_yPVHRcao/SjFFfJVX6mI/AAAAAAAABeg/c3eGBpQlXOk/s400/manu-ginobili-argentina.jpg

http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/tim-duncan-tony-parker.jpg

[lefty]

WGAF

It's done, it's the past, deal with it.

They are the defending champs, and it's up to other teams to dethrone them

[bbarry]

^ none of those images contains spurs with tears in their eyes. because spurs aren't pussies like the fakers

[elbamba]

Its done, doesn't really matter now what happened. The Lakers will always be able to attract stars and will always be able to work out good deals. Hell Kobe for Vlade was a steal too.

The Spurs have the tools to beat LA, we do not need to worry about trades that happened two years ago.

[2Cleva]

^ none of those images contains spurs with tears in their eyes. because spurs aren't pussies like the fakers

As one great movie line goes - "Die like a man or die like a bitch but you still gonna die."

Tears don't bother me. Only thing that matters is these.

:lobt2:

[pad300]

Spurs fans have no ground to stand on here when they got Jefferson for a couple cigarette butts. Or maybe you guys could blatantly tank your season for the 1st pick in the draft again.

Memphis came out a much bigger winner than Milwaukee did in comparison. Which makes this hypocritical thread even more hilarious.

Whatever else be said about your argument (and there's a lot), any team that ends up with Zach Randolph on the roster simply does not qualify as a winner...

[thispego]

Kurt Thomas should have been an integral gear in Spurs rotation last season, but Pop didn't reward him so much time as what he deserved, thus it was not a bad move for both Thomas and his team to say bye to each other. Thomas will probably get traded again after the training camp to some contenders whose paints are relatively lacking in defense and toughness, in exchange for some craps and picks. Oberto and Bowen used to be pivotal roles for Spurs in their champion years in 05 and 07, but they both have slumped drastically these years and are no longer competitive enough for the NBA games already.

It's very true that Tim Duncan is the only legit big man on Spurs, but the truth is, many other teams haven't even got one of such legit big men. Except these legit big men like Duncan, Dirk, KG... the rest are left behind by a big margin from the elites while are not widely divided from each other. And such kind of average big players are easy to get from the free market, if the GM is careful enough in observation then it shouldn't be impossible to sign some very decent guys at incredible low prizes like MLE, like Chris Anderson.

^ this guy is a fucking moron

[thispego]

As one great movie line goes - "Die like a man or die like a bitch but you still gonna die."

Tears don't bother me. Only thing that matters is these.

:lobt2:

*:lobt2: - this is all you'll be getting with pau on the squad

[thispego]

WGAF

It's done, it's the past, deal with it.

They are the defending champs, and it's up to other teams to dethrone them

so because it happened in the past we should just "forget about it"? that's what laker fans want.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96569

[Mark in Austin]

My own theory is that Heisly was in real trouble and couldn't make payroll - keep in mind that this was before the League lined up a line of credit that teams could access. That was why they had to dump Gasol when they did. Now that they can "afford" a 20-10 player again, they went out and got Randolph.

My criticisms of Memphis are a little more refined - if I was dumping Gasol I'd try to find a team with a better draft pick (1-3) than what LA could offer; and there no way in hell I'd bring in Randolph to be the elder statesman on a rebuilding club.

[easy7]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_M7_yPVHRcao/SjFFfJVX6mI/AAAAAAAABeg/c3eGBpQlXOk/s400/manu-ginobili-argentina.jpg
I did not know you mother-fer's f-ed Ginobili in the Olympics, you bastards... :lmao

[kingmalaki]

Yes, because tanking a season for a 21.4% chance for the first pick is great franchise business. :rolleyes

I would say it turned out to be. Teams tank to improve their lotto chances all the time. It was no different when you guys landed Duncan.



Face it, the majority in the NBA think it was a bullshit trade, and that line of thinking is well beyond justified. Marc Gasol was not a known commodity at the time so that argument can be thrown out on its ass.

And the majority also knew SA wasn't really trying that hard to win games the season prior to nabbing Duncan, and kept guys "injured" to improve their lotto chances. Spurs fans have no room to complain about another franchise getting over, especially not when y'all just landed Jefferson for nothing and could have even resigned the players you gave up if your team chose to do so.

[picc84]

you do realize Rocketfan made this right?

Who made the other 80 Gasol trade threads?

[poop]

yeah cause Zach Randolph will help them more than Pao would have


hey everytime i see your SWEEP THE LEG! sig im just dying to know what happened next..any idea?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

LA got over on Memphis. Its what pimp franchises do. Deal with it or don't.

Remind me again, which Memphis FO exec was pulling the strings on the Gasol to LA trade?

Yeah...there was nothing fishy about that deal.

[Agloco]

hey everytime i see your SWEEP THE LEG! sig im just dying to know what happened next..any idea?

Nothing, the video cuts off after some dude gets up to help her.

[Agloco]

Appreciate that. Spurs fans would be the best reference for that anyway, especially with how Kobe has bent them over chairs as well.

Glad to help. A gentle reminder for those Laker fans who still run around with a hardon about the Gasol trade.

[InRareForm]

Lol at stupid laker fans thinking it wasn't a steal.

Lol at them talking about the jefferson trade. Jefferson is not a top 15 player in this league. Plus he is overpaid. Gasol is not.

[in2deep]

lakerfan never ceases to amaze me with their stupidity

[HarlemHeat37]

When you're a fan of sports, sometimes you just have to accept that the more popular teams are going to catch heavy breaks, and this is all this was for the Lakers..there's nothing we fans can do about it except cheer against them..we all love the sport so much that we keep watching, even though it's kind of obvious what was going on at the time..

Incidents like this one, the game 6 vs. Sacramento, and many others, are what makes Laker fans the most defensive fans in sports..they always have to make excuses and give reasons that really aren't logical, and sometimes don't make any sense at all..

Laker fans main excuse for the Gasol trade was that "they were ahead of the curve" when it came to salary dumps..that Kupchak started them before anybody..it's funny, because RIGHT BEFORE THAT, everybody that liked the Lakers was calling for Kupchak's head and throwing him under the bus..all of a sudden he had this master plan that nobody else in the NBA could pull off..

I also hear them compare it to the RJ trade..comparing a top 40-50 swingman, to an undisputed top 15 player in the NBA that plays arguably the most important role in basketball, which is the star big man..

I also hear Marc Gasol mentioned LOL..Marc Gasol's ceiling is a good role player..I respect his game, but that's clearly all that he's going to be in this league..

Kobe asks for a trade, the league gets scared..they wait on shit because the Lakers start off surprisingly well, and Andrew Bynum looks like he's going to break out and become a future star..Bynum goes down, so everybody makes their move..the league looks to the team that has ties with Jerry West, the former Laker and logo of the NBA, and their owner and management gets extorted for a deal where they get NOTHING in return except for a future role player in Marc Gasol, and salary that ended up being used on Zach Randolph and Allen Iverson, 2 of the biggest no-defense playing black holes in NBA history..


I used to get angry about it, but I've gotten over it..when it comes to sports, and even life in general, the rich kids will always get the breaks..

[temujin]

It's not a sport, it's a business.
And in business, the Gasols of this world will always go to whatever franchise makes more sense business-wise.

It's just utterly amusing that there are enough idiots out there that consider this as a "trade".

[temujin]

Oh and I believe this Heisly guy has just recently realized that the Gasol he's been paying is not Pau.

[21_Blessings]

Face it, the majority in the NBA think it was a bullshit trade, and that line of thinking is well beyond justified. Marc Gasol was not a known commodity at the time so that argument can be thrown out on its ass.

Marc Gasol was winning MVPs in Europe at the time. Not a known commodity my ass. Stop lying to yourself.

Not only that, Memphis also received 3 first round picks overall. Traded Crittenton for one, drafted Arthur (which has developed into a solid player) and still have one more.

How are you defending the Jefferson trade again? That's right you can't. Memphis actually got young talent + cap space back in the deal. The Bucks only received cap relief. Winner Memphis. Especially when you factor in Gasol pushing for a trade in the first place and the fan base wanting him gone.

[thispego]

When you're a fan of sports, sometimes you just have to accept that the more popular teams are going to catch heavy breaks, and this is all this was for the Lakers..there's nothing we fans can do about it except cheer against them..we all love the sport so much that we keep watching, even though it's kind of obvious what was going on at the time..

Incidents like this one, the game 6 vs. Sacramento, and many others, are what makes Laker fans the most defensive fans in sports..they always have to make excuses and give reasons that really aren't logical, and sometimes don't make any sense at all..

Laker fans main excuse for the Gasol trade was that "they were ahead of the curve" when it came to salary dumps..that Kupchak started them before anybody..it's funny, because RIGHT BEFORE THAT, everybody that liked the Lakers was calling for Kupchak's head and throwing him under the bus..all of a sudden he had this master plan that nobody else in the NBA could pull off..

I also hear them compare it to the RJ trade..comparing a top 40-50 swingman, to an undisputed top 15 player in the NBA that plays arguably the most important role in basketball, which is the star big man..

I also hear Marc Gasol mentioned LOL..Marc Gasol's ceiling is a good role player..I respect his game, but that's clearly all that he's going to be in this league..

Kobe asks for a trade, the league gets scared..they wait on shit because the Lakers start off surprisingly well, and Andrew Bynum looks like he's going to break out and become a future star..Bynum goes down, so everybody makes their move..the league looks to the team that has ties with Jerry West, the former Laker and logo of the NBA, and their owner and management gets extorted for a deal where they get NOTHING in return except for a future role player in Marc Gasol, and salary that ended up being used on Zach Randolph and Allen Iverson, 2 of the biggest no-defense playing black holes in NBA history..


I used to get angry about it, but I've gotten over it..when it comes to sports, and even life in general, the rich kids will always get the breaks..

:tu

well said

[temujin]

Marc Gasol was winning MVPs in Europe at the time. Not a known commodity my ass. Stop lying to yourself.

Not only that, Memphis also received 3 first round picks overall. Traded Crittenton for one, drafted Arthur (which has developed into a solid player) and still have one more.

How are you defending the Jefferson trade again? That's right you can't. Memphis actually got young talent + cap space back in the deal. The Bucks only received cap relief. Winner Memphis. Especially when you factor in Gasol pushing for a trade in the first place and the fan base wanting him gone.

here's one of them.

[picc84]

The curious thing about this is that if the same trade was offered to the Spurs, for say, Fabricio Oberto and some bench scrubs, not one of you Spurs fans would reject or denounce the trade in some kind of hypothetical "good sportsmanship". Greg Popovic would have been all over that like white on rice, and the entire Spurs fan base would be telling the rest of the sports world to get over it.

Yet you guys act as if we are terrible people for not lambasting the trade or the owners who made it happen, and act as if simply remaining a fan of the team is tantamount to a felony crime. Hilarious how many stand up on their soapbox when they would be frothing at the mouth given the opportunity to do the same thing. Guess thats how life is.

I dont defend the trade. It was bs and absurdly lopsided. But I dont have to defend it. Someone gave us an opportunity and we took it. I root for my team and when good things happen for us i'm happy, not outraged because i'm on some pseudo-ethical high horse, like some.

[TDMVPDPOY]

The curious thing about this is that if the same trade was offered to the Spurs, for say, Fabricio Oberto and some bench scrubs, not one of you Spurs fans would reject or denounce the trade in some kind of hypothetical "good sportsmanship". Greg Popovic would have been all over that like white on rice, and the entire Spurs fan base would be telling the rest of the sports world to get over it.

Yet you guys act as if we are terrible people for not lambasting the trade or the owners who made it happen, and act as if simply remaining a fan of the team is tantamount to a felony crime. Hilarious how many stand up on their soapbox when they would be frothing at the mouth given the opportunity to do the same thing. Guess thats how life is.

I dont defend the trade. It was bs and absurdly lopsided. But I dont have to defend it. Someone gave us an opportunity and we took it. I root for my team and when good things happen for us i'm happy, not outraged because i'm on some pseudo-ethical high horse, like some.

the question is the spurs never got that offer from memphis...

[PGDynasty24]

lakers own spurs get over it. Were the Lakers and we DGAF. Whats our record against you guys in the playoffs? thats what i thought...

[Lars]

Its sad because it destroyed what could of been an immensely competitive post season in the west.

[Kindergarten Cop]

The curious thing about this is that if the same trade was offered to the Spurs, for say, Fabricio Oberto and some bench scrubs, not one of you Spurs fans would reject or denounce the trade in some kind of hypothetical "good sportsmanship". Greg Popovic would have been all over that like white on rice, and the entire Spurs fan base would be telling the rest of the sports world to get over it.

Yet you guys act as if we are terrible people for not lambasting the trade or the owners who made it happen, and act as if simply remaining a fan of the team is tantamount to a felony crime. Hilarious how many stand up on their soapbox when they would be frothing at the mouth given the opportunity to do the same thing. Guess thats how life is.

I dont defend the trade. It was bs and absurdly lopsided. But I dont have to defend it. Someone gave us an opportunity and we took it. I root for my team and when good things happen for us i'm happy, not outraged because i'm on some pseudo-ethical high horse, like some.

I don't feel that anyone here is expecting Lakers' fans to "lambaste" anyone or anything, because you can bet that every fan on this board (regardless of the team they follow) would be ecstatic if their team made the trade in place of the Lakers. I know that if the Spurs had the opportunity to pull that type of deal back then, I would have been very disappointed had they rejected it. I believe that non-Laker fans are ridiculing those that defend the trade as fair and an understandable deal from a business sense. You obviously don't in the post above, but the majority of Laker fans do.

As for the Richard Jefferson trade being used as a comparison - the reasons that the comparison doesn't stick has already been posted. Gasol is an elite big man that has never been labeled as "overpaid". Jefferson is a great player, but is nowhere near the level of a Pau Gasol - and he has an albatross of a contract that still has several years left. Don't get me wrong, because I still like the Jefferson trade and I am pleased that the Spurs FO is showing a commitment to be competitive even if it means going into Salary Cap Hell. But to compare the two trades as remotely similar (or the Shaq trade to Cleveland, for that matter) is laughable.

[picc84]

I've seen Spurs fans ask Laker fans how "we can live with ourselves" winning a title after a "collusion" trade like that. I've seen Spurs fans act as if we should have boycotted the franchise for it. I've seen Spurs fans tell Laker fans we should "be ashamed at the way we had to win".

I assume they say these things because Spurs fans hold themselves to such a high standard of never-never-land business and sportmanship ethics that had Gasol been traded for Oberto and Jacque Vaghn, they would have renounced the franchise and boycotted the championship parade that would have followed. The streets would have been completely barren as the Spurs championship buses rode along the Riverwalk, disgusted and ashamed Spurs fans' spending the time instead sending letters of disapproval to their front office and requesting refunds on their season tickets.

Alas, we Laker fans dont have this kind of San Antonio class and pride, so we celebrate positive opportunities for the franchise and the fruits they bear, instead of renouncing them, and we're reminded of our lack of sportsmanship every time one of these "OMG the Gasol trade again" thread pops up.

May the basketball gods forgive us.




















































:lobt2:

[21_Blessings]

As for the Richard Jefferson trade being used as a comparison - the reasons that the comparison doesn't stick has already been posted. Gasol is an elite big man that has never been labeled as "overpaid". Jefferson is a great player, but is nowhere near the level of a Pau Gasol - and he has an albatross of a contract that still has several years left. Don't get me wrong, because I still like the Jefferson trade and I am pleased that the Spurs FO is showing a commitment to be competitive even if it means going into Salary Cap Hell. But to compare the two trades as remotely similar (or the Shaq trade to Cleveland, for that matter) is laughable.

Gasol was labeled as overpaid, injury prone and was constantly whining and bitching the last couple years he was in Memphis. No one considered him a top tier player. 0-12 in the playoffs.

Acting like the Jefferson trade isn't similar is the only thing that is laughable here. 20 ppg wing scorer traded for complete crap. Pure salary dump. At least Memphis got 3 young players AND cap space in the deal.


the question is the spurs never got that offer from memphis...

Gasol was on the trade block for over a year. Acting like the trade came out of nowhere is hilarious.

[King]

It was shady as hell. So what? I would've loved for San Antonio to be on the Pau end of that trade, shady or not.

[in2deep]

fixed
















*:lobt2:

[DeadlyDynasty]

What a bunch of f'n pussy cry-babies...grow up Spurs fans

[nkdlunch]

What a bunch of f'n pussy cry-babies...grow up Laker fans

[big daddy russ]

The curious thing about this is that if the same trade was offered to the Spurs, for say, Fabricio Oberto and some bench scrubs, not one of you Spurs fans would reject or denounce the trade in some kind of hypothetical "good sportsmanship". Greg Popovic would have been all over that like white on rice, and the entire Spurs fan base would be telling the rest of the sports world to get over it.

...I dont defend the trade. It was bs and absurdly lopsided. But I dont have to defend it. Someone gave us an opportunity and we took it. I root for my team and when good things happen for us i'm happy, not outraged because i'm on some pseudo-ethical high horse, like some.
Thank you, and thank you.


memphis got Marc Gasol in the Pau trade who has proved to be a very good big man for them.


The Lakers did lost some talents in that trade anyways, some of them like Marc Gasol have already lived up to their values and the latent ones are also expected to bloom off in the near future. I think that is pretty enough to even the trade, and has already made the Gasol trade a whole different story than the trade of Jefferson where the Spurs didn't lose shit, the Spurs only lost some shit for Jefferson at its finest.
And Shaq isn't fat, he's just big-boned.

Gasol has proven to be a marginal big man for them. Crittenton was considered someone who could potentially develop into a solid (but not special) starting PG. And nobody actually believed that those two first-round picks would amount to anything more than late-first rounders. The only saving grace of the trade was supposed to be Kwame's expiring contract.


We lost our 2nd best big man-Thomas, and our best defensive player Bruce Bowen, those two guys actually contributed to the Spurs and could still play. We actually gave up someone and took a gamble.


Put it this way, Thomas should've been the starting Center and Bowen should've been the starting SF.
Uh huh. Take a look at R-Jeff. A top-40 player in the league and someone who can fill it up for 20 to go along with eight or so rebounds any given night. We lost NOTHING in talent. It was purely a trade that gave Milwaukee a chance to start from scratch.



Bottom line is that the Lakers absolutely raped the Grizz on that trade, even with Kwame's expiring $9 mil. What made the trade so lopsided is that the Grizz could've had Luol Deng or Ben Gordon plus some free agent money for Pau.

Would I take that trade? Quick as a heart attack. They got one of the best big men (which is tough to come by) in the league for one expiring contracts and a younger brother who will never be relevant in the NBA.

[Kindergarten Cop]

I've seen Spurs fans ask Laker fans how "we can live with ourselves" winning a title after a "collusion" trade like that. I've seen Spurs fans act as if we should have boycotted the franchise for it. I've seen Spurs fans tell Laker fans we should "be ashamed at the way we had to win".

I assume they say these things because Spurs fans hold themselves to such a high standard of never-never-land business and sportmanship ethics that had Gasol been traded for Oberto and Jacque Vaghn, they would have renounced the franchise and boycotted the championship parade that would have followed. The streets would have been completely barren as the Spurs championship buses rode along the Riverwalk, disgusted and ashamed Spurs fans' spending the time instead sending letters of disapproval to their front office and requesting refunds on their season tickets.

Alas, we Laker fans dont have this kind of San Antonio class and pride, so we celebrate positive opportunities for the franchise and the fruits they bear, instead of renouncing them, and we're reminded of our lack of sportsmanship every time one of these "OMG the Gasol trade again" thread pops up.

May the basketball gods forgive us.

I can't speak for the fans that are you are talking about here in this post, but I can pretty much assure you that they are just doing it to rile your feathers. You can bet that they would be defending the trade had it gone to the team that they root for - but I can almost guarantee that a majority of the Lakers' fans would be attacking the team that pulled off the deal had it not been the Lakers that traded for Gasol and the team that traded for his services won a championship because of it. The Spurs get unjustly criticized on this forum for having their best players injured for the bulk of a season and getting the top overall pick (even when they didn't even finish with the best odds to get the top pick). Now that is reaching, wouldn't you agree?

IMHO, the Laker fans have nothing to hang their heads over or they need not feel guilty for anything. They simply got one over on the Grizzlies and benefited immensely from the lopsided deal. As I said earlier, I would have been disappointed had the Spurs rejected a similar deal had it been offered to them.

[DPG21920]

WGAF? The only reason this is such a big deal is because:

1) The trade was seemingly not made available to everyone, despite some Laker fans protests

2) Because Memphis just traded for a worse, just as expensive version of Gasol in Randolph, which makes their initial reasons for doing the trade bogus. If they were going to rebuild, rebuild. Don't give away a guy then take on someone worse. Just stupid.

It is over, and now teams have to adjust. Get over it.

[picc84]

I can't speak for the fans that are you are talking about here in this post, but I can pretty much assure you that they are just doing it to rile your feathers.

That is a nice (I guess) thought, but I don't think thats the case. Fans who have made posts like that, and it has happened a LOT, seem to genuinely believe they are right and are judging in the spirit of sportsmanship.

Thats why I question how much self-awareness these people have, and if they have ever considered that their reaction should a similar trade happen for the Spurs would be one directly contradictory to what they chide us Lakers fans for.


but I can almost guarantee that a majority of the Lakers' fans would be attacking the team that pulled off the deal had it not been the Lakers that traded for Gasol and the team that traded for his services won a championship because of it. The Spurs get unjustly criticized on this forum for having their best players injured for the bulk of a season and getting the top overall pick (even when they didn't even finish with the best odds to get the top pick). Now that is reaching, wouldn't you agree?

I would agree, yes. I don't think its fair or logical to expect fans to ever feel negatively about their favorite team moving in a positive direction. I personally think that tanking a season for a top lottery pick is much more of an offense than simply accepting a trade proposal another team agrees to, but would I ever attempt to tell Spurs fans how they are supposed to feel about it? Or that they should feel less enthusiastic about their franchise because of it?

No.

You are the fans. You root for your team and hope for, and accept, the best whenever it presents itself. I only wish more of you guys would apply the same principle externally.

[picc84]

One last thought. For a team that prides itself on class, hard work, and determination to make things work no matter what, all this persistent complaining about the Gasol trade is a bad reflection on what the Spurs franchise is supposed to represent. The players heard about the trade and probably thought, "Ok, I guess we need to just work that much harder. Its spilled milk now and it presents a challenge that we as professionals are going to have to rise to and exceed." I know thats what Duncan thought. I know its what Bowen thought. Probably Parker too.

But here their fans are, 2 years later, still dwelling on the opportunities lost when the trade happened instead of focusing on the opportunities that are ahead of them. You have a great team, a revamped team. Why not look forward to the challenge and watching your team respond to it instead of posting this same thread what seems like every 2 weeks.

[21_Blessings]

1) The trade was seemingly not made available to everyone, despite some Laker fans protests

Bullshit. Everybody knew Gasol was on the block. Dating back to a year previous when the Chicago rumors were flying.


2) Because Memphis just traded for a worse, just as expensive version of Gasol in Randolph, which makes their initial reasons for doing the trade bogus.

Memphis got three other players out of the deal. Two have panned out to decent players and one has yet to be drafted.

Coming from a fan of a team that blatantly tanked for Tim Duncan your lack of understanding how to rebuild is pretty funny. If Memphis had kept Pau they wouldn't have OJ Mayo right now. It's the reason the Spurs rode Robinson's injury that entire year when tanking for Duncan instead of bringing him back.


If they were going to rebuild, rebuild. Don't give away a guy then take on someone worse. Just stupid.

Pau did not want to be in Memphis. Why would they keep him when he clearly wanted out and the fanbase didn't want him there? Memphis now has a strong young core and trading for Randolph won't change. Besides, who says he can't be moved again? We already saw how valuable expiring contracts are. Memphis is obviously not contending for a couple years but if their young guys develop, Randolph's expiring can be moved down the line to fill the holes.

[thispego]

I've seen Spurs fans ask Laker fans how "we can live with ourselves" winning a title after a "collusion" trade like that. I've seen Spurs fans act as if we should have boycotted the franchise for it. I've seen Spurs fans tell Laker fans we should "be ashamed at the way we had to win".


:lmao

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Yes, a very one-sided trade. Pro sports has seen plenty of those. And, yes, the Grizzlies have since made themselves look like fools by using the same kind of money on Z-Bo. That makes them idiots, but a conspiracy? :rolleyes

[Man In Black]

Who gives a fuck?

It's time to make some real history. One for the thumb. Win an even year title. Lastly, be the 1st team to prevent a Phil Jackson coached team from repeating.

[TFloss32]

Spurs fans have no ground to stand on here when they got Jefferson for a couple cigarette butts. Or maybe you guys could blatantly tank your season for the 1st pick in the draft again.

Memphis came out a much bigger winner than Milwaukee did in comparison. Which makes this hypocritical thread even more hilarious.

People who aren't Spurs fans complaining about the Spurs "tanking" to get Tim Duncan is exactly the same thing as anti-Lakers fans talking about how lopsided the Gasol deal was. It all boils down to envy that these teams have a badass big man in the middle. And how many times does a team "tank" their season and fail to get the #1 pick? Everyone fully expected Duncan to be a Celtic and it's not the Spurs' fault that the greatest PF of all time happened to be in the '97 Draft. It happened 12 years ago...let it go.

And how did Memphis come out a "much bigger winner" than Milwaukee? You've got to be joking. The biggest reason this trade is so laughable is because Aaron McKie was a freakin' assistant coach for Philly when the Lakers convinced him to sign a bullshit contract so that the trade would work under the salary cap. Only the Lakers would be allowed to trade a retired player. Plus, nobody involved in that trade is even in a Memphis uniform right now, except for Marc Gasol (who was a Euro player at the time and nobody knew what he do in the NBA. He was just a piece thrown in that happened to work out).

At least Milwaukee was able to unload Richard Jefferson's bloated contract, got a serviceable big man and will be able to compete for free agents in the summer of 2010.

[2Cleva]

And how did Memphis come out a "much bigger winner" than Milwaukee? You've got to be joking. The biggest reason this trade is so laughable is because Aaron McKie was a freakin' assistant coach for Philly when the Lakers convinced him to sign a bullshit contract so that the trade would work under the salary cap. Only the Lakers would be allowed to trade a retired player. Plus, nobody involved in that trade is even in a Memphis uniform right now, except for Marc Gasol.

Dallas dealt Keith Van Horn to NJ in the Kidd deal after LA made the move for Gasol. Back in the day, Minny dealt Terrell Brandon to Atlanta in some big deal the same way.

The big thing about Aaron McKie was he wasn't getting paid while working as an asst for Philly. Great move by LA and foresight by McKie's agent.


At least Milwaukee was able to unload Richard Jefferson's bloated contract, got a serviceable big man and will be able to compete for free agents in the summer of 2010.

Memphis got cap space as well as dumping a bloated contract (for them since they couldn't win with Pau) as well as getting better than a serviceable big man (Marc better than anyone SA got).

LA got over. No question. That's what pimps do. But the conspiracy talk is hilarious. And West wasn't even part of Memphis at the time the deal was made.

[TFloss32]

Dallas dealt Keith Van Horn to NJ in the Kidd deal after LA made the move for Gasol. Back in the day, Minny dealt Terrell Brandon to Atlanta in some big deal the same way.

The big thing about Aaron McKie was he wasn't getting paid while working as an asst for Philly. Great move by LA and foresight by McKie's agent.

Man, you're reaching in the vault for that Terrell Brandon comparison. Point taken, however...I'm referencing Aaron McKie in the Gasol deal because it was a trade that altered the power structure in the Lakers favor (after being mediocre, at best, since Shaq left) and got them to the Finals two years in a row. The other two trades are irrelevant because it didn't help those respective teams to improve at all. Take the Mavs, they've actually gotten worse since Kidd arrived. A perfect example of Mark Cuban's inability to manage personnel...Diop, Harris and two future first rounders for Kidd? It's hilarious that he thought he was the one making out like a bandit when, in reality, it was the complete opposite.


Memphis got cap space as well as dumping a bloated contract (for them since they couldn't win with Pau) as well as getting better than a serviceable big man (Marc better than anyone SA got).

LA got over. No question. That's what pimps do. But the conspiracy talk is hilarious. And West wasn't even part of Memphis at the time the deal was made.

At least you admit they got over. If that's what pimps do, you can tell 21_Blessings that the Spurs were just "big pimpin" when they drafted Tim Duncan and swung the Richard Jefferson deal. To say that Memphis benefited more than Milwaukee is just ridiculous. Keep reading....

Of course, "conspiracy" is a word that Lakers fans laugh at when talking about the Gasol trade. You have to look at it from the rest of the league's perspective though...

1.) This trade has been deemed the worst, if not the worst, trade in NBA history. However, Lakers fans have somehow convinced themselves that it was legitimate and Memphis benefited. From the 2008 perspective, Gasol was had for essentially a bag of uncertainty. Nobody (in their right mind) trades a franchise player without getting a sure thing in return. You can say, "Well, Marc Gasol worked out!" all you want except nobody knew what he would provide (or if he would even come over). Memphis just got lucky and yet they still sit at the bottom of the standings. Even Kobe referred to the Gasol trade as a "donation."

2.) Many people are suspicious because negotiations were so quiet between the Grizzlies and the Lakers. Other teams that wanted Gasol didn't get a fair shake and even had better proposals on the table. Take Chicago...they were willing to part with Nocioni, Thomas, Noah and Sefolosha. These are all guys that would give Memphis a shot at being competitive. However, Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley said, "we needed a deal that would give us cap space and draft picks." So, he goes for two late first rounders and cap space that will probably never make its way back into the roster? Hmmm...Even if the trade did provide them with signifcant cap space (which it didn't), do you think anyone actually wants to play for a piss poor franchise such as the Memphis Grizzlies? They can't get a decent coach, they're poorly managed and Michael Heisley is one of the worst owners in the league along with Donald Sterling of the Clippers.

3.) To say that Jerry West was involved in the deal is not a stretch by any means. He's a former Laker, extremely close with Mitch Kupchak and Kobe Bryant, close with Michael Heisley and current GM Chris Wallace was his protege and replacement. I'm not saying he was involved, personally, but to say that he knew nothing about the trade before it happened is about as believable as Kevin McHale just happening to trade Garnett to his old team and close buddy, Danny Ainge. At least Minnesota knew they would be getting Al Jefferson in return.

It's not ridiculous for NBA fans to wave their fingers when you consider all angles of that deal.

[2Cleva]

Man, you're reaching in the vault for that Terrell Brandon comparison. Point taken, however...I'm referencing Aaron McKie in the Gasol deal because it was a trade that altered the power structure in the Lakers favor (after being mediocre, at best, since Shaq left) and got them to the Finals two years in a row. The other two trades are irrelevant because it didn't help those respective teams to improve at all. Take the Mavs, they've actually gotten worse since Kidd arrived. A perfect example of Mark Cuban's inability to manage personnel...Diop, Harris and two future first rounders for Kidd? It's hilarious that he thought he was the one making out like a bandit when, in reality, it was the complete opposite.

End result or how good the teams got wasn't the point, as you saw. Just making it clear LA didn't do anything against the rules or wasn't done before and after.



At least you admit they got over. If that's what pimps do, you can tell 21_Blessings that the Spurs were just "big pimpin" when they drafted Tim Duncan and swung the Richard Jefferson deal. To say that Memphis benefited more than Milwaukee is just ridiculous. Keep reading....

Of course, "conspiracy" is a word that Lakers fans laugh at when talking about the Gasol trade. You have to look at it from the rest of the league's perspective though...

1.) This trade has been deemed the worst, if not the worst, trade in NBA history. However, Lakers fans have somehow convinced themselves that it was legitimate and Memphis benefited. From the 2008 perspective, Gasol was had for essentially a bag of uncertainty. Nobody (in their right mind) trades a franchise player without getting a sure thing in return. You can say, "Well, Marc Gasol worked out!" all you want except nobody knew what he would provide (or if he would even come over). Memphis just got lucky and yet they still sit at the bottom of the standings. Even Kobe referred to the Gasol trade as a "donation."

2.) Many people are suspicious because negotiations were so quiet between the Grizzlies and the Lakers. Other teams that wanted Gasol didn't get a fair shake and even had better proposals on the table. Take Chicago...they were willing to part with Nocioni, Thomas, Noah and Sefolosha. These are all guys that would give Memphis a shot at being competitive. However, Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley said, "we needed a deal that would give us cap space and draft picks." So, he goes for two late first rounders and cap space that will probably never make its way back into the roster? Hmmm...Even if the trade did provide them with signifcant cap space (which it didn't), do you think anyone actually wants to play for a piss poor franchise such as the Memphis Grizzlies? They can't get a decent coach, they're poorly managed and Michael Heisley is one of the worst owners in the league along with Donald Sterling of the Clippers.

3.) To say that Jerry West was involved in the deal is not a stretch by any means. He's a former Laker, extremely close with Mitch Kupchak and Kobe Bryant, close with Michael Heisley and current GM Chris Wallace was his protege and replacement. I'm not saying he was involved, personally, but to say that he knew nothing about the trade before it happened is about as believable as Kevin McHale just happening to trade Garnett to his old team and close buddy, Danny Ainge. At least Minnesota knew they would be getting Al Jefferson in return.

It's not ridiculous for NBA fans to wave their fingers when you consider all angles of that deal.



Long story short, people hate on the trade because of the Lakers history of success. Caron Butler for Kwame Brown was just as big of a steal for Washington as what LA gave up for Pau.

1 - Its far from the worse trade in NBA history, people just bitch louder and in more media (newspaper, TV, radio, internet) than in the past. But many franchise players are dealt for shit. Iverson (from Philly) and Barkley come to mind.

2 - Most trades that actually get done are kept quiet. How much talk out of SA in the media was about Richard Jefferson before the deal got done?

Re: Memphis - They were stripping the roster because the plan was to sell the team. That was the underlying reason. As for why Chicago didn't get a deal done - Paxson was too much in love with his picks. Thats why he missed out on everyone - KG, Kobe, etc.. and was eventually fired. And Noah was never available for Pau.

3 - The better barometer than West (who was gone) is the actual GM of the Grizz (Chris Wallace) who has made horrible deals in Memphis and in Boston. Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers comes to mind. He's just horrible. West had nothing to do with it.

Only reason why I talk about it is I love the haters try to make excuses instead of recognizing the historical greatness of the Lakers. Wilt. Kareem. Shaq. Gasol. They get shit done.


And taking Duncan 1st wasn't pimping, it was a tank job that paid off. Not the same but skill wasn't involved, luck of the pingpong balls was. Like comparing poker to slot machines.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm not sure I understand the point in rehashing this to any extent. The trade can't be undone because doing so would be impractical and because the league certainly isn't distressed to have it's most favored franchise back in the elite class. It's not the first lopsided trade nor is it the most lopsided trade ever. If a trade like it were deemed problematic to the league, chances are great that the league would have already responded with a rule prohibiting a recurrence - like it did with the Stepien Rule or the rule enacted after Gary Payton's sham trade a few years ago.

There doesn't really seem to be much to discuss.

[dbestpro]

The Lakers can keep Gasol. Just give Manu the same calls Kobe gets.

[hater]

If a trade like it were deemed problematic to the league

Lakers vs. Celtics final hardly "problematic" to the league no matter how it was achieved

[TFloss32]

End result or how good the teams got wasn't the point, as you saw. Just making it clear LA didn't do anything against the rules or wasn't done before and after.

End result actually was the point and that's why people say "conspiracy" and hate on the Lakers...because that trade propeled the Lakers to the NBA Finals two years in a row and Memphis is still a bottom feeder (and will be for some time). This is why I say they didn't benefit at all from the Gasol trade and Lakers fans are kidding themselves if they think a free agent that's worth a damn is going to commit to Memphis. This is also why I said the Jason Kidd and Terrell Brandon trades are irrelevant (when talking about retired players involved in trades) because Aaron McKie was involved in a trade that gave the Lakers a franchise player who (everyone knew) would take them back to the Finals. You're right, they didn't cheat. They worked the system and took advantage of an idiot in Chris Wallace (even if he did receive a nudge from Jerry West).


Long story short, people hate on the trade because of the Lakers history of success. Caron Butler for Kwame Brown was just as big of a steal for Washington as what LA gave up for Pau.

This is neither here nor there because it hasn't had any effect on the league whatsoever. If the Washington Wizards somehow, by the Grace of God, win an NBA title then I guess you could reference this trade.


1 - Its far from the worse trade in NBA history, people just bitch louder and in more media (newspaper, TV, radio, internet) than in the past. But many franchise players are dealt for shit. Iverson (from Philly) and Barkley come to mind.

2 - Most trades that actually get done are kept quiet. How much talk out of SA in the media was about Richard Jefferson before the deal got done?

Re: Memphis - They were stripping the roster because the plan was to sell the team. That was the underlying reason. As for why Chicago didn't get a deal done - Paxson was too much in love with his picks. Thats why he missed out on everyone - KG, Kobe, etc.. and was eventually fired. And Noah was never available for Pau.

3 - The better barometer than West (who was gone) is the actual GM of the Grizz (Chris Wallace) who has made horrible deals in Memphis and in Boston. Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers comes to mind. He's just horrible. West had nothing to do with it.

1.) It's not far from the worst trade in history. Name a franchise player approaching his prime, or in his prime, that was traded in the modern era to a good team for less than what the Lakers gave to Memphis.

Barkley was traded to Phoenix for Jeff Hornacek and then to Houston (already past his prime at this point) for Sam Cassell and Robert Horry. Iverson was traded to Denver for Andre Miller. Hardly shit...

2.) Nobody was in contention for Jefferson except the Spurs. No other team wanted his contract, especially with the summer of 2010 coming up. Plus, you NEVER know what the Spurs are going to do. What I meant by "quiet" was the Grizzlies were focusing on the Lakers more than any other offer for whatever particular reason.

RE: Chicago- According to this article, http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-heisleygasol060308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns, from a reputable AW, Noah was on the table along with Nocioni, Thomas and Sefolosha. The deal wasn't done because Heisley said the Bulls "wouldn't give us any of their good, core players." How do you get more "core player" than that (with the exception of Ben Gordon)? He said they were fielding other offers besides Chicago, but the Lakers "stepped up." There had to be better offers than what the Lakers came to the table with. Heisley and Wallace are, obviously, easily impressionable since they decided to take out L.A.'s trash for Pau Gasol. Kobe was never going to Chicago by the way...

3.) One thing we agree on. Chris Wallace is an idiot and probably always will be. There's a reason Memphis is terrible and it starts at the top with Heisley.


Only reason why I talk about it is I love the haters try to make excuses instead of recognizing the historical greatness of the Lakers. Wilt. Kareem. Shaq. Gasol. They get shit done.


And taking Duncan 1st wasn't pimping, it was a tank job that paid off. Not the same but skill wasn't involved, luck of the pingpong balls was. Like comparing poker to slot machines.

Hey, I'm not hating on the Lakers (even though I despise the arrogance of Kobe and Phil). The league is much less fun when the Lakers suck. You have to beat the best in order to be the best. As a Spurs fan, I would have been smitten if that Gasol trade fell into our lap (like the Jefferson trade did) even though I would have felt that it was unfair and lopsided as hell. You do what you have to do in order to win.

In reference to Duncan, call it tanking, luck, etc. But I wouldn't go as far as making the poker/slot machines analogy when comparing tanking for Duncan and trading for Gasol. It takes about as much effort to tank a season as it does to go up to a stupid owner and GM and say "Hey, will you take all of our shit for your franchise player?" Not much skill involved in either scenario if you ask me. Both teams got what they wanted though.

[TwoHandJam]

Oh for fuck's sake Lakers fans are so naive. Where there's smoke there's fire.

GMs publicly complaining their offers were rebuffed.
West had been the GM 6 months prior.
The trade made no sense on its face.

The Lakers used the Grizzlies as their farm team and got away with blatant collusion. The league didn't step in to rescind the deal because because it benefits their ratings. Stern has been quoted as saying his dream finals would be "Lakers vs. Lakers". Lots of teams make somewhat collusive deals with other teams because of former ties or relationships but only the high profile money teams like the Lakers or Boston can get away such flagrantly inside dealings.

It cheapens the league and disgusts other teams but it drives home two very universal themes. Cronyism is a timeless part of human nature and money talks.

[kingmalaki]

This trade has been deemed the worst, if not the worst, trade in NBA history.


Only by haters. Off the top of my head, here are some more BS trades that led directly to titles:

- Agguire to Detroit in 89
- Drexler to Houston in 95
- Rodman to Chicago in 96, for freaking Will Perdue. Rodman only led the league in boards for the previous 4 years. How is the Gasol trade worse than this giveaway?
- Sheed to Detroit in 04

[kingmalaki]

Name a franchise player approaching his prime, or in his prime, that was traded in the modern era to a good team for less than what the Lakers gave to Memphis.

Dennis Rodman was in his prime when the Spurs gave him to the Bulls. He wasn't a franchise player, but he was a perfect fit for Chicago and the best in the league at what he did. And everyone already knew what kind of difference a solid PF could make in Chicago. Plus he had already won titles....unlike Gasol who was considered a loser before he got shipped to LA. I might even argue that his rebounding and defense were just as big as what Gasol gives LA, considering the teams the Bulls went through for the 2nd 3-peat (Kemp, Malone, Malone).

[tlongII]

Blazers > Lakers or Spurs

[jjktkk]

Spurs fans have no ground to stand on here when they got Jefferson for a couple cigarette butts. Or maybe you guys could blatantly tank your season for the 1st pick in the draft again.

Memphis came out a much bigger winner than Milwaukee did in comparison. Which makes this hypocritical thread even more hilarious.

Yea but in order to tank again one of the big 3 has to volunteer to break his foot and be out for the season, my ignorant faker fan. Geez that smog must be filtering thru your earhole.

[TFloss32]

Dennis Rodman was in his prime when the Spurs gave him to the Bulls. He wasn't a franchise player, but he was a perfect fit for Chicago and the best in the league at what he did. And everyone already knew what kind of difference a solid PF could make in Chicago. Plus he had already won titles....unlike Gasol who was considered a loser before he got shipped to LA. I might even argue that his rebounding and defense were just as big as what Gasol gives LA, considering the teams the Bulls went through for the 2nd 3-peat (Kemp, Malone, Malone).

Only by the haters? This trade has been publicly criticized by players, coaches, GMs, owners and analysts. Even Kobe Bryant called it more of a "donation" than a trade.

Spurs got Will Perdue (who actually played in San Antonio for 4 years) in return and he was a serviceable big man that helped plug up the middle. He also contributed to the '99 championship. Definitely better than what Memphis got. Kwame played for the Grizzlies for a total of 2 months at 12 min/game and Javaris Crittenton was 3 months at 3 min/game. Plus, like you said, Rodman was not a franchise player. He was more like a ticking time bomb and you never knew what his next move would be. Do you remember when he delayed a playoff game against the Lakers by sitting down on the court?

Drexler might be your best argument, but he and Mark Aguirre were in their latter years when those trades went down (still productive, but no longer franchise players). Also, the Rasheed trade was essentially him to Detroit and Theo Ratliff + Shareef Abdur-Rahim (who was averaging 20 and 10 at the time) to Portland. I believe Atlanta got involved because they wanted future picks and Rasheed played exactly one game for them. Nevertheless, everyone got what they wanted and there was a legit exchange of players.

[kingmalaki]

Only by the haters? This trade has been publicly criticized by players, coaches, GMs, owners and analysts. Even Kobe Bryant called it more of a "donation" than a trade.

I'm not saying that it wasn't all of that, but every GM that complained would gladly do the same trade for their teams. They are just pissed that they weren't the team to get over. The Spurs just stole Jefferson for nothing....I don't think anyone in their front office or their fans feel bad about it.



Spurs got Will Perdue (who actually played in San Antonio for 4 years) in return and he was a serviceable big man that helped plug up the middle. He also contributed to the '99 championship. Definitely better than what Memphis got. Kwame played for the Grizzlies for a total of 2 months at 12 min/game and Javaris Crittenton was 3 months at 3 min/game. Plus, like you said, Rodman was not a franchise player. He was more like a ticking time bomb and you never knew what his next move would be. Do you remember when he delayed a playoff game against the Lakers by sitting down on the court?

Will Perdue is not better than Gasol and some draft picks, and he certainly isn't worth landing Dennis Rodman in his prime. It was a salary dump just like the Gasol trade, with the lone exception being Gasol wasn't a locker room issue. But as far as talent and impact to winning, it was clear as day that Rodman had all of that. He already had two titles. Gasol hadn't won jack....



Drexler might be your best argument, but he and Mark Aguirre were in their latter years when those trades went down (still productive, but no longer franchise players). Also, the Rasheed trade was essentially him to Detroit and Theo Ratliff + Shareef Abdur-Rahim (who was averaging 20 and 10 at the time) to Portland. I believe Atlanta got involved because they wanted future picks and Rasheed played exactly one game for them. Nevertheless, everyone got what they wanted and there was a legit exchange of players.

The point is those type of trades aren't that rare. You can say Drexler and Agguire were on their last legs, but the Drexler trade led to a title immediately, and a WCF appeareance. The Agguire trade led to two straight titles (when a repeat was considered a big deal)....and you were basically giving the best defensive team in the league a top scorer and closer. The Sheed trade led to a title, a Finals appeareance and multiple ECF trips. How are those trades not as bad?

[Kamala]

Jerry West is like Dick Cheney during the Bushie years. He still runs the show, but no one ever sees his old ass.

[EricB]

Spurs fans have no ground to stand on here when they got Jefferson for a couple cigarette butts. Or maybe you guys could blatantly tank your season for the 1st pick in the draft again.

Memphis came out a much bigger winner than Milwaukee did in comparison. Which makes this hypocritical thread even more hilarious.

What season was this?

[Man In Black]

Curious...Why does Lakerfan call the drafting of Duncan, a tank job.
You guys never explain why you think that. When 4 of your best players miss large parts of the season...you're going to start losing a lot, it's not a tank. It's just that there isn't enough talent left to compete. If the Lakers lost Gasol, Bryant, Odom, & Fish...how many games could the LAL win? About the same amount it takes to become a lottery team.

[Vito Corleone]

Stern got over on Memphis. Its what pimp executives do. Deal with it or don't.

FIFY


Spurs fans have no ground to stand on here when they got Jefferson for a couple cigarette butts. Or maybe you guys could blatantly tank your season for the 1st pick in the draft again.

Memphis came out a much bigger winner than Milwaukee did in comparison. Which makes this hypocritical thread even more hilarious.

Milwaukee is on the verge of folding due to financial losses, they chose to have a fire sale due to current economic conditions and San Antonio chose to mortgage their future on winning right now. it is a risk both teams have taken. The big difference is that Gasol is a big man and no team gives away a 20-10 big man in his prime for nothing, wing players like Jefferson are a dime a dozen, but skilled bigs are not.


Appreciate that. Spurs fans would be the best reference for that anyway, especially with how the refs has bent them over chairs as well.

FIFY again.

[kingmalaki]

Milwaukee is on the verge of folding due to financial losses, they chose to have a fire sale due to current economic conditions and San Antonio chose to mortgage their future on winning right now. it is a risk both teams have taken. The big difference is that Gasol is a big man and no team gives away a 20-10 big man in his prime for nothing, wing players like Jefferson are a dime a dozen, but skilled bigs are not.

Teams usually don't give away PFs in their prime that are elite defenders, have led the league in rebounds for the last half decade (and by a wide margin), and already have title experience either. Situations allowed it to happen though.

[TFloss32]

I'm not saying that it wasn't all of that, but every GM that complained would gladly do the same trade for their teams. They are just pissed that they weren't the team to get over. The Spurs just stole Jefferson for nothing....I don't think anyone in their front office or their fans feel bad about it.?

Ok, so you're bascially rescinding your comment about the haters. The main difference between the Gasol and Jefferson trades is that nobody wanted Jefferson's contract except for the Spurs. It was a desperation move by both teams to move in a positive direction. It's actually a risky move by the Spurs for many reasons (luxury tax, no money for 2010 summer, etc.) Other teams wanted Gasol (and came to the table with better offers than the Lakers, i.e. Chicago Bulls), but the Lakers were given special attention by Michael Heisley and Chris Wallace for one reason or another. The Spurs trade made perfect sense for both sides...the Lakers trade, however, did not.


Will Perdue is not better than Gasol and some draft picks, and he certainly isn't worth landing Dennis Rodman in his prime. It was a salary dump just like the Gasol trade, with the lone exception being Gasol wasn't a locker room issue. But as far as talent and impact to winning, it was clear as day that Rodman had all of that. He already had two titles. Gasol hadn't won jack.....

If you take both trades from the beginning (when they happened), the Gasol trade is worse than the Rodman trade. Here's why...The Spurs knew exactly what they were getting in Will Perdue, a guy with championship experience who would be a serviceable back-up center to Duncan and Robinson. They were right, he ended up contributing to the '99 championship. Plus, they wanted Rodman out of town on the first thing smokin'.

The Grizzlies, on the other hand, had no idea what they were doing or what they were getting. They were completely worked over by the Lakers. Like 21_Blessings said, Marc Gasol was a known commodity...in Europe. You know as well as I do that there is no correlation between European success and NBA success for a multitude of reasons (American lifestyle, NBA rules, homesickness, etc). Plus, the Grizzlies didn't even know if he would come over. They lucked out that Marc Gasol is now a solid NBA player, yet the team is still in shambles. Talking about the future first round draft picks the Grizzlies received, those are basically second round picks because they came from the Lakers. Why do you think Kupchak parted with those so easily? He knew those picks would be close to the second round because the Lakers were going to be back in title contention with Pau Gasol on board. Simple price to pay for a franchise player.



The point is those type of trades aren't that rare. You can say Drexler and Agguire were on their last legs, but the Drexler trade led to a title immediately, and a WCF appeareance. The Agguire trade led to two straight titles (when a repeat was considered a big deal)....and you were basically giving the best defensive team in the league a top scorer and closer. The Sheed trade led to a title, a Finals appeareance and multiple ECF trips. How are those trades not as bad?

They are rare. You just mentioned four trades that happened in a period of 18-20 years. Here's why the Gasol trade is significant and more important than the all of the rest...since Shaq left the Lakers, they were a mediocre team (at best). 2005= no playoffs, 2006= first round exit, 2007= first round exit. In 2008, the Gasol trade completely altered the power structure in the Western Conference and propeled the Lakers to two straight Finals appearances. The other trades are completely different because you failed to mention that these teams were already successful without those players. The Lakers would still suck without Gasol in the mix:

1.) Drexler to Houston- Clyde was no longer a franchise player (still productive) and Houston was the defending champion from '93. They already won without Clyde.

2.) Aguirre to Detroit- He was no longer a franchise player (still productive) and Detroit was already having great success as well. 1987 ECF (one the best series ever, Bird stole the inbound pass) and they took the Lakers to 7 in the 1988 Finals.

3.) Wallace to Detroit- Not a franchise player and Detroit had already begun their resurgence to the top of the East. 2002= second round exit, 2003= ECF. Plus, Portland received Shareef Abdur-Rahim (20 and 10 guy at the time) and Theo Ratliff in return.

Bottom line: You can't find a franchise player (other than Gasol) traded in his prime to a mediocre team for less than what Memphis got in return. For that reason, and all of the reasons above, the Gasol trade is most likely the worst, most lopsided, shadiest trade in many, many years. I don't know how to make this any more clear. :flag:

[TFloss32]

Has anyone condemned a soccer team picking someone from its affiliates or youth squads? The answer is "hell freaking NO", with no doubt or discussion.

Glad you could bring a relevant comment to this conversation. :bang

[daslicer]

Kingmalaki your are a dumbfuck in the sense that those players acquired in those trades you mentioned were past their prime. You stupid fucker Dennis Rodman was around 35-36 when the spurs traded him to the bulls. That age is not what you call being in your prime. No team was willing to give much up for Rodman due to his age and his conduct which pretty much resulted in the spurs having to settle for a solid backup big in Perdue. I'm surprised your so stupid that you don't know even your own teams history the Rockets. The Rockets had to give up a very solid big in Othis Thorpe just get Clyde Drexler who was still good but past his prime which lead the Rockets to winning one more title but years of mediocrity that followed afterwards.

[DrHouse]

Sour grapes thread.

[kingmalaki]

Ok, so you're bascially rescinding your comment about the haters.

Not at all. The Lakers got a steal. Every GM and their fans would gladly take a steal if one came their way. The Spurs just got a steal with Jefferson....no one is complaining. I agree with your takes on why Jefferson was traded, but at the end of the day both players were basically salary dumps, and given away for garbage because of financial reasons only.



If you take both trades from the beginning (when they happened), the Gasol trade is worse than the Rodman trade.

Will Perdue was an average center at best, and also at the tail end of his career and everyone knew it. To land the best rebounder and defender at his position for him is a steal anyway you put it. It led directly to 3 titles. You can't dispute how much of a ripoff that was.

I don't think any GM will take an older average center (who no one expects to get better) over a young center prospect and 1st round picks (no matter how late, ther are still 1st round picks....didn't LA sell this years for a few million??). The Grizz got more for Gasol than SA did for Rodman.



They are rare. You just mentioned four trades that happened in a period of 18-20 years.

I stand corrected. They are rare, but they do happen.



1.) Drexler to Houston- Clyde was no longer a franchise player (still productive) and Houston was the defending champion from '93. They already won without Clyde.

It doesn't matter that he was no longer a franchise player. This trade led directly to a title and another WCF appeareance. You were still adding a top SG to a team where he could be a 2nd option. He had already been to the Finals twice. A clear steal.



2.) Aguirre to Detroit- He was no longer a franchise player (still productive) and Detroit was already having great success as well. 1987 ECF (one the best series ever, Bird stole the inbound pass) and they took the Lakers to 7 in the 1988 Finals.

And this is exactly why you don't give this team Aguirre. They had just made it to the Finals and lost (might have won if Zeke didn't get hurt). And you let them....a team built on dominant defense....add one of the games top scorers? This trade led directly to two titles.



3.) Wallace to Detroit- Not a franchise player and Detroit had already begun their resurgence to the top of the East. 2002= second round exit, 2003= ECF. Plus, Portland received Shareef Abdur-Rahim (20 and 10 guy at the time) and Theo Ratliff in return.

You are right that the Pistons sent out more in this case and the one above. But the impact so far has been just the same. Doormat to champion to Finals appeareance to like 5-6 ECF appeareances.



Bottom line: You can't find a franchise player (other than Gasol) traded in his prime to a mediocre team for less than what Memphis got in return. For that reason, and all of the reasons above, the Gasol trade is most likely the worst, most lopsided, shadiest trade in many, many years. I don't know how to make this any more clear. :flag:

You are putting too many qualifications out there dude. Sure, I probably can't find a franchise player given to a mediocore team (which LA wasn't...they had the best record in the league before Bynum went down). But I can find other examples of stars given away for not much, that led to as much success as LA has had...which has folks claiming the trade changed the dynamics of the league. And Rodman fits your example actually. You can say he wasn't a franchise player but he surely was just as good as Gasol and I don't see how the LA trade changed the dynamics anymore than that one....and the Spurs got even less than memphis.

[TFloss32]

You are putting too many qualifications out there dude. Sure, I probably can't find a franchise player given to a mediocore team (which LA wasn't...they had the best record in the league before Bynum went down). But I can find other examples of stars given away for not much, that led to as much success as LA has had...which has folks claiming the trade changed the dynamics of the league. And Rodman fits your example actually. You can say he wasn't a franchise player but he surely was just as good as Gasol and I don't see how the LA trade changed the dynamics anymore than that one....and the Spurs got even less than memphis.

I don't think I'm putting too many qualifications out there at all. I'm simply asking for a comparable trade and there really isn't another out there that fits the bill. As far as the Rodman trade goes, I feel as if the the Bulls were going to win regardless. However, I doubt the Lakers would have made two straight Finals appearances without Gasol in the mix.

You, obviously, know your basketball but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I'd like to reiterate that I'm not hating on the Gasol trade AT ALL, even though I think it was lopsided and shady. As a Spurs fan, I like it when the Lakers are a great team because it makes the game a lot more fun. I'm simply stating my opinion that I've never seen a trade under those circumstances that had such a significant impact on the league. The Lakers will probably be title contenders for 5 more years, because of the Gasol trade, before they begin to taper off. Those other trades didn't allow those teams to play competitively for that long and those players we've mentioned were no longer franchise players (or weren't franchise players to begin with).

[TFloss32]

Sour grapes thread.

Haha, it's going to be a fun year DrHouse. I hope Bynum, Ginobili, Garnett and Jameer Nelson are all healthy and back in business. Could be one of the greatest years ever.